Sep 03, 2024 Carmel Plan Commission

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>> WELCOME TO THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE FOR THE CARMEL PLANNING COMMISSION, ALSO REFERRED TO AS THE JOINT RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL COMMITTEE. THIS IS TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 3RD, 2024. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. JUST FOR ANYBODY WHO IS PAYING ATTENTION AT HOME, WATCHING ALONG, THE FOURTH ITEM , WHICH WAS THE SPRINGVILLE SHOPPES HAS BEEN TABLED. WE WILL NOT BE SPEAKING ABOUT THAT TONIGHT. IT'S THE TABLE UNTIL OCTOBER 1ST. IF YOU ARE WATCHING AT HOME AND ARE

[1. Docket No. PZ-2024-00120 ADLS Amend: Restructured Chiropractic. The applicant seeks design approval for exterior modifications to the building. The site is located at 3940 W 96th St. It is zoned B-2/Business and is located within the US 421 Overlay zone. Filed by George Small of Design Point, Inc.]

THE SITE IS LOCATED AT 3940 WEST 96TH STREET. IT IS ZONE BE DASHED TO BUSINESS. AND IS LOCATED WITHIN THE U.S. FOR 21 OVERLAY ZONE. IT WAS FILED BY GEORGE SMALL OF DESIGN POINT, INCORPORATED. -- HAS THE MIKE. IF YOU WOULD PRESS THE BUTTON, IT WILL LIGHT UP LIKE THIS. AND EVERYBODY IN THE ROOM CAN HEAR

YOU. >> DOWN HERE.

>> I AM GEORGE SMALL WITH DESIGN POINT ARCHITECTS. I WORK WITH DR. WILSON HERE IN AUDIENCE TO REVAMP HIS EXTERIOR. IS CURRENTLY BUILT INSIDE OUT. AND WE WILL START REPLACING WINDOWS, THAT'S WHEN WE GOT PULLED INTO THE OVERLAY DISTRICT. WE ARE TRYING TO ENHANCE IT FROM WHAT IT WAS. DO I HAVE CONTROL? OR DO YOU HAVE CONTROL OF THE PICTURE?

>> HE HAS IT . IF YOU NEED HIM TO ZOOM OUT. . HE WILL ADJUST

IT. >> CURRENTLY, YOU CAN SEE THE CONDITIONS RIGHT NOW , IT IS WHITE AND BLUE WITH -- WE ARE TRYING TO ENHANCE THE OUTSIDE. WITH THE DORMERS WE ARE DOING -- PAINTING AND ALL WHITE. EXCEPT FOR SOME OF THE BUILDING, WE WILL DO LIGHT GRAY. CURRENTLY, THE BACK OF THE BUILDING WILL BE SPLIT FACED. IT WILL BE PAINTED. AND THE FRONT, WE WILL PAINT IT AND DO CROWN MOLDING AROUND THE BUILDING AND ENHANCE THE FRONT WITH THE BLACK AWNING AS WELL.

TO MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT MORE INVITING AND TO ALSO TIE IT WITH WHAT'S GOING ON INSIDE OF THE SPACE. ALONG WITH THAT, WE ARE GOING TO GO AHEAD AND ALSO DO SOME LANDSCAPING TO BRING IT UP TO STANDARDS. CURRENTLY THERE IS A LOT OF WHITE ROCK IN PRETTY MUCH 90% OF THE SITE. WE WILL REMOVE THAT AND RE-LANDSCAPE WITH BLACKSTONE'S AS WELL. IN A NUTSHELL, WE ARE TRYING TO LOOK LIKE A BETTER PLACE TO OCCUPY. THAT IS A CLEAR IMAGE OF THE FINAL PRODUCT.

>> IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD, I WILL DEFER TO STAFF. STAFF, IF YOU CAN CHIME IN AND FILL US IN THAT WOULD BE

GREAT. >> THANK YOU. CHRISTINA JESSE, CARMEL PLANNING AND ZONING. THE PETITIONER MENTIONED THE BUILDING IS CURRENTLY PAINTED BLUE, THIS WAS DONE PREVIOUSLY WITHOUT STAFF APPROVAL. AND WE ARE GOING TO BE PAINTING THE MAJORITY OF THE BUILDING WHITE AND LEAVING THE EXISTING BRICK WINGS -- AS IS.

WILL BE RETURNED TO THE PLANS THAT WERE ORIGINALLY APPROVED WITH THE -- FROM 1986. CURRENTLY, THE ONLY ISSUE OF NOTE THAT I WOULD LIKE TO MENTION IS THERE ARE AIR CONDITIONER UNITS THAT BLOCK SIDEWALK ACCESS ALONG THE REAR OF THE BUILDING. THE OWNER HAS AGREED TO RELOCATING THE UNITS.

TO A PARKING ISLAND AROUND THE REAR OF THE BUILDING. APART FROM THIS, THERE ARE NO OUTSTANDING ITEMS. WE MET ARENDT THAT SO WE RECOMMEND APPROVAL.

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>> THANK YOU. I OPEN THE FLOOR TO MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS. WE

CAN STRIKE DOWN HERE. >> THANK YOU FOR THAT REPORT.

AND THANK YOU FOR COMING TONIGHT. QUICK QUESTION, WHEN THE MOVE THE AIR CONDITIONING UNITS, WILL HE BE CONTAINED? WHAT IS IT GOING TO LOOK LIKE? WILL WE BE ABLE TO SEE IT FROM

THE STREET? >> THE UNITS WILL BE PLACED IN THE PARKING ISLAND AROUND THE REAR OF THE BUILDING. GEORGE, IF YOU DO NOT MIND BRINGING UP THE SITE PLAN, THERE IS A -- ANYONE ENTERING INTO THE SITE WILL BE PASSING BY THEM, --

>> THEY ARE RIGHT HERE. >> IDEALLY TALL GRASS OR SHRUBS

. >> THANK YOU.

>> GO AHEAD. >> WAS THERE ANY THOUGHT GIVEN TO CONNECTING THIS BUILDING , I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S FEASIBLE, CONNECTING IT TO THE BUILDING TO THE WEST? I KNOW WHEN YOU GOING TO THE BUILDING THERE IS ONE IN AND OUT AS I REMEMBER.

>> THERE WERE SOME EASEMENTS BROUGHT UP, AND LANDSCAPING CONCERNS FROM OUR URBAN FORRESTER, SO THEY WANTED TO REMAIN WITH THE ORIGINAL DESIGN PLAN FROM 1986 .

>> GO AHEAD. >> I JUST HAD A QUESTION , FROM THE EXISTING TO PROPOSE RENDERING, IT LOOKS LIKE THERE IS A SLIGHT CHANGE IN THE SIDEWALK. IS THAT JUST

ARTISTIC? >> IT IS ARTISTIC. WE ARE NOT

TOUCHING THE SIDEWALKS. >> SIMILAR TO JEFF, I THINK THIS LOOKS GREAT. I APPRECIATE YOU UPDATING THIS BUILDING. IT WAS IN NEED OF UPDATES. THIS LOOKS GREAT. THANK YOU FOR YOUR

PROPOSED WORK. >> THIS IS NOT IN THE RIVER DISTRICT. THIS IS THE FOR 21 OVERLAY. WHAT KIND OF

CONCESSIONS HAD TO BE MADE? >> THE PRIMARY CONCERN WERE THE ARCHITECTURAL STANDARDS FOR THE BUILDING. THE U.S. FOR 20 ONE ZONE REQUIRES PETITIONERS TO USE ONE OF FOUR ARCHITECTURAL STYLE. A LOT OF THE EXTERIOR BUILDING IMPROVEMENTS WERE THE MAJOR CONCERN THE DEPARTMENT HAD.

>> THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, CONCERNS OR

COMMENTS? >> IS AT THE RIVERFRONT

DISTRICT? GOT IT . >> I WOULD REMOVE -- APPROVE

REMOVAL OF THE ADLS. >> SECOND.

>> THIS IS GREAT. WE HAVE A GOOD EMOTION ON THE TABLE. FOR THE DOCKET, AS PRESENTED WITH THE AMENDMENTS AS AMENDED, ESSENTIALLY. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF COMMISSIONER HILL'S MOTION

SAY, AYE. >> AYE.

[2. Docket No. PZ-2024-00127: ADLS Amend-Sign: Bru Burger Mural on Patio Wall The applicant seeks approval for an exterior mural. The site is located at 12901 Old Meridian St. It is zoned UC and is not located within an overlay zone. Filed by Josh Brinson on behalf of Bru Burger Bar-Carmel.]

>> ANY OPPOSE? YOU HAVE IT. WE WILL MOVE ON TO DOCKET NUMBER PZ-202400127. ADLS I MEND SIGN. THIS IS THE BRU BURGER MURAL ON PATIO WALL. THE APPLICANT SEEKS APPROVAL FOR AN EXTERIOR MURAL.

THE SITE IS LOCATED AT 12901 OLD MERIDIAN STREET. IT IS ONLY UC AND IS NOT LOCATED WITHIN AN OVERLAY ZONE. THIS WAS FILED BY JOSH BRINSON ON BEHALF OF OF BRU BURGER BAR OF CARMEL. I HEARD THEY BROUGHT FREE SAMPLE.

>> MY NAME IS JOSH BRINSON, AND I AM PARTNERED WITH MIKE CUNNINGHAM OF THE CUNNINGHAM RESTAURANT GROUP. WE ARE PLAYING INTO A MURAL ON THE PATIO AT THE RESTAURANT -- I AM HOPING TO TURN A BIG GRAY WALL INTO SOMETHING MORE COLORFUL,

VIBRANT AND ENERGETIC. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. JUST FOR CLARIFICATION PURPOSES IF ANYBODY IS PAYING ATTENTION, YOUR PATIO IS NOT EVEN VISIBLE FROM THE ROAD?

>> THAT IS CORRECT. >> YOU CAN BARELY SEE THE PATIO

FROM THE PARKING LOT. >> THE LAYOUT, I HAVE SOME GOOGLE EARTH IMAGES THAT DISPLAY WITH IT WILL BE TAKING PLACE. AS YOU CAN SEE, THERE IS A TRIANGULAR FORMATION TO THE BUILDING. OR OLD -- OLD MERIDIAN STREET IS -- THERE IS

A COLDER HERE. >> CAN YOU TELL YOUR PHONE A LITTLE BIT. THE ONLY VISIBLE LOCATION IS IF YOU ARE BEHIND

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>> WE WILL LET STAFF TO LISTEN.

>> GOOD EVENING. FOR THE RECORD -- FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY SERVICES. THE PETITIONER SEEKS APPROVAL TO THE MURAL ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF A MULTI- TENANT RETAIL BUILDING FACING THE COURTYARD . THE WALL IN QUESTION IS CONSTRUCTED OF CONCRETE BLOCK AND IS CURRENTLY PAINTED GRAY. THE MURAL WILL BE PAINTED DIRECTLY ONTO THIS WALL WITH A HIGH-QUALITY SPRAY PAINT DESTA WITH THE PRESSURE WASHING . IT DOES NOT CONTAIN ELEMENTS THAT WOULD BE CONSTRUED AS SIGNAGE. IT'S GRAPHIC IN NATURE AND COLORFUL IMAGERY THAT INCORPORATE LOCAL IMAGERY SUCH AS THE INDIANAPOLIS SKYLINE, CARAMELS STREET SIGNS AND ARTWORK AND A GREYHOUND REPRESENTING THE HIGH SCHOOL MASCOT. NO CHANGES ARE PROPOSED -- ADJACENT -- WILL BE MAINTAINED. A MURAL WILL ONLY BE PHYSICAL -- VISIBLE IF SOMEONE IS DRIVING AROUND THE BACK OF THE BUILDING. AND WILL BE ENJOYED BY PATRONS OF THE RESTAURANT. IT WILL NOT BE VISIBLE FROM OLD MERIDIAN STREET. -- WE PLAN TO WORK WITH THE RESTAURANT SHOULD MAINTENANCE BE REQUIRED.

ALTHOUGH THE COURTYARD IS ALREADY A LIMITED -- STAFF WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHETHER THERE WILL BE ANY EXTRA EXTERNAL ELIMINATION ADDED TO THE DISPLAY TO MAKE SURE IT IS ACCEPTABLE AND DOES NOT CREATE UNDUE POLLUTION TO THIS SURROUNDING AREA. OTHER THAN FIGHTING ABOUT THE PROPOSED --

NO OUTSTANDING REQUEST. >> THANK YOU FOR SUCH A COMPLETE REPORT. WE WILL NOW ÚOPEN IT UP TO COMMISSIONERS.

DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY COMMENTS?

>> THIS IS NOT AN ART ADVISORY COMMISSION, BUT I THINK IT LOOKS GREAT. AND IS DIFFERENT FROM ANY OTHER MURAL WE HAVE.

AS FAR AS THE LAND USE, I AM LOOKING AT THE LOCATION. AND THE LOCATION IS GREAT. AS JOSH SAID, YOU CANNOT SEE IT UNLESS YOU ARE SITTING ON YOUR PATIO. THE LOCATION IS GREAT. I HAVE NO OBJECTION. TO HER QUESTION, I SAW YOU NOD YOUR HEAD, NO.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER ? >> NO.

>> WHEN I SAW THIS COME THROUGH, I COULDN'T HELP BUT THINK, IF A GLASS CHIMNEY COULD SEE US TODAY. ARE REAL STARK CONTRAST FROM WHERE THE BUILDING ONCE WAS. WITHOUT --

GO AHEAD. >> JUST A TECHNICAL QUESTION OR PROCEDURAL QUESTION, I AM CURIOUS WHY THIS HAS TO COME BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION?

>> ALL MURALS HAVE TO BE APPROVED BY THE COMMERCIAL COMMITTEE . THAT IS WHY IT HAS TO COME TO THIS BOARD.

>> ARE YOU GOING TO PAINT IT? >> YES, I AM.

>> DO YOU WANT HELP? >> I MIGHT SUBCONTRACT SOMEHOW.

BUT I WILL PROBABLY KEEP SOME OF THE FUN STUFF FOR ME.

>> I WOULD LIKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THIS ITEM.

>> SECOND . >> ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THE

MOTION AS PRESENTED SAY, AYE. >> AYE.

>> ANY OPPOSE? THANKS FOR MORE ART. AND WE WILL ALL BE IN FOR THE NEXT ONE AFTER THE BURGERS. THANK YOU FOR A GREAT

RESTAURANT TOO. >> I AM NOW GOING TO PASS THE TORCH, THE PROVERBIAL GAVEL. DO NOT BANG ME WITH IT TOO HARD.

[3. Docket No. PZ-2024-00028 PUD: Towne 146 PUD Rezone. The applicant seeks PUD rezone approval to allow a mixed-use neighborhood consisting of singlefamily homes, townhomes, and neighborhood commercial. The site is located at 2275 W 146th Street and is zoned S-1/Residence. Filed by Jim Shinaver and Jon Dobosiewicz of Nelson & Frankenberger on behalf of Lennar Homes of Indiana, LLC.]

>> WE ARE ON TO ITEM NUMBER THREE TONIGHT. MOVING RIGHT THROUGH. DOCKET NUMBER PC DASH 2024 -- PZ-2024-0028. TOWNE 146 PUD REZONE. THE APPLICANT SEEKS YOU DO APPROVAL REZONE -- TO ALLOW A MIXED-USE NEIGHBORHOOD CONSISTING OF A SINGLE FAMILY HOME, TOWNHOMES , AND NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL. THE SITE IS LOCATED AT 2275 WEST 146 STREET AND IS OWNED AS ONE RESIDENCE. FILED BY JIM SHOULD'VE OUR AND JOHN W6 -- JON DOBOSIEWICZ OF NELSON AND FRANKENBERGER ON BEHALF OF

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LENNAR HOMES OF INDIANA LLC. >> PROJECT ENGINEER, KYLE -- . IF YOU DO NOT MIND, IF YOU CAN ZOOM OUT A LITTLE BIT. I WANT TO MAKE SURE I CAN PICK UP THE FULL AREA. I KNOW EVERYONE IS VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE REAL ESTATE. JUST PULL IT BACK IF YOU CAN. THANK YOU. MAYBE A LITTLE BIT MORE. THANK YOU SO MUCH. AT THIS FIRST COMMITTEE MEETING, BECAUSE WE REALIZE WE WERE COMING BACK WILL FOR YOU IN OCTOBER WITH VARIOUS ISSUES TO DISCUSS. WE WANT TO REVIEW WITH YOU THE NEIGHBORHOOD SHOPS COMPONENT , THE 2020 PLAN AMENDMENT AND SOME CONCEPT PLAN AMENDMENTS WE WANT TO REVIEW.

WE ALSO WANT TO REVIEW SOME GENERAL DRAINAGE CONSIDERATIONS. A GENERAL REVIEW OF THE TRAFFIC STUDIES.

AND SOME MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS INCLUDING THE REQUEST FOR RENTAL RESTRICTION COMMITMENTS, LANDSCAPING AND BUFFERING -- OTHER ANTICIPATED SITE PLAN AND REVISIONS, AS WELL AS SOME OF THE ITEMS IN YOUR STAFF REPORT. AS I PROCEED, I WANT TO PROVIDE BRIEF COMMENTS FOR EACH PARTICULAR SECTION TO GO THROUGH IT. AND THEN I WILL PAUSE TO TAKE AS MUCH INPUT DISCUSSION AS YOU WANT ON THE TOPIC. FOR THESE TOPICS, I WANT TO SET A PART OF THE DISCUSSION. WITH THAT SAID, THE FIRST COMPONENT WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE GOT A LOT OF DISCUSSION -- AS WELL AS THE 20 LETTERS THAT HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED BY THE PUBLIC, THAT REGARD THE NEIGHBORHOOD SHOPS .

BY WAY OF BACKGROUND, I WANT TO EXPLAIN HOW THAT ORIGINATED.

JOHN WC WICKS WAS HERE IN AUGUST -- I WANT TO GIVE A FULL VIEW OF WHY IT OCCURRED. PRIOR TO FILING IN FEBRUARY, TONY -- HAD SEVERAL CONVERSATIONS WITH THE PLANNING STAFF. AS ANY PETITIONER WOULD TO BEGIN THE PROCESS. AND INITIALLY, THE PROPOSAL FOR THE 16 ACRE SITE WAS TO ACTUALLY HAVE A COMPLETE RESIDENTIAL PROPOSAL THAT WAS ONLY FOR TOWN HALL. AND IS THOSE DISCUSSIONS STARTED TO OCCUR IN FALL, 2023 AND THE WINTER OF 2023, THE LCF STAFF TOLD TONY OUR TEAM TO REVIEW THE PLAN AMENDMENT. WE WERE STRONGLY ENCOURAGED TO CONSIDER TRYING TO INCORPORATE SOME MIXED-USE COMPONENT ON THIS SITE. SOMETHING THAT WOULD HAVE NEIGHBORHOOD SHOPS, WHICH YOU WOULD FIND SOME OF THE COMMENTARY ABOUT THE 2022 AMENDMENT PLAN. BUT ALSO A MIX OF RESIDENTIAL PRODUCTS AS WELL. THE PLAN THAT WAS ACTUALLY FILED IN FEBRUARY OF THIS YEAR WAS A PLAN THAT INCORPORATED THE NEIGHBORHOOD SHOPS COMPONENT, AND IT HAD TWO DIFFERENT PRODUCT TYPES. IT HAD A TOWNHOME PRODUCT AND THE TWO-STORY DETACHED PRODUCT. AS WE LOOK AT THAT PROPOSAL AFTER IT WAS FILED, WE HAVE SOME INFORMAL MEETINGS WITH COUNCILMEMBERS TO OBTAIN INPUT FROM THEM. ME, MYSELF AND JON DOBOSIEWICZ. WE ATTENDED SOME OF THE HOUSING COMMISSION DISCUSSIONS. THE IMPORTANCE OF TRYING TO PROVIDE A PRODUCT THAT MIGHT HAVE MORE OF A -- PRIMARY BEDROOM AND CONSIDERATIONS LIKE THAT. THE TEAM AND LENNAR TOOK A BREAK AFTER IT WAS FILED IN FEBRUARY.

WE TOOK A BREAK TO RE-EVALUATE THE PLAN. THAT IS WHEN THE THIRD PRODUCT LINE WAS INTRODUCED WITH THE RANCH HOMES. AND THAT WAS ALSO WHEN THERE WAS SOME CHANGES AS IT RELATED TO THE POND DESIGN. THE ORIGINAL PROPOSAL THAT WAS FILED IN FEBRUARY HAD A STANDALONE POND. AS WE CONTINUE TO REFINE THE PROJECT AND DRILL DOWN, THAT IT WAS PROPOSED TO BE WHAT I WILL CALL A MIND ON. I EXPLAINED THAT BECAUSE THERE WAS SOME BACKGROUND OF THOUGHT ABOUT WHERE THE PROJECT STARTED OUT AND HAD -- HOW IT EVOLVED THROUGH THE PROCESS. THAT IS WHY THERE WAS A SLIGHT DIRECT -- DELAY. DURING THE PERIOD OF TIME, WE HAD INDIVIDUAL MEETINGS WITH HLA BOARDS, SUCH AS SADDLE CREEK, LINCOLNSHIRE. WE REACHED OUT A FEW TIMES TO WOODHAVEN. BUT WE WERE NOT SUCCESSFUL. WITH THAT SAID, THE OTHER IMPORTANT COMPONENT I KNOW ALL OF YOU ARE AWARE OF, BUT I WANTED THE PUBLIC TO HEAR IT -- THERE ARE VERY IMPORTANT GROUPS. YOU KNOW WHO THE GROUPS ARE. I WANT TO VOCALIZE IT. IT WILL MAKE MORE SENSE AS I PROCEED . D.O.C. . THE INPUT

[00:20:05]

LENNAR FELT IT IMPORTANT TO HAVE THE TWO-STORY DETACHMENT PRODUCT. THAT IS A PRODUCT THEY BELIEVE AND I BELIEVE CAN BE ATTRACTIVE TO YOUNGER EMPTY-NESTERS. BECAUSE IT DOES HAVE A STAIR COMPONENT. I AM PAST THE 55+ AGE AND I DO NOT MIND STAIRS. I WOULD FALL INTO THAT CATEGORY. I CONSIDER MYSELF A YOUNGER PERSON IN THAT GROUP . BUT NOT YET AN EMPTY NESTOR. I HAVE FIVE KIDS AND THAT IS ANOTHER STORY. WE ALSO FELT IT WOULD BE ATTRACTIVE TO YOUNGER FAMILIES THAT ARE GROWING. THIS THE PRODUCT THAT IS HIGH-QUALITY, IT FITS ON A SMALLER LOT AND REQUIRES LESS MAINTENANCE. I MAKE THOSE COMMENTS BECAUSE BEGINNING ON FRIDAY MORNING WHEN YOU -- WE RECEIVE THIS INSTRUCTION -- BY REMOVING THE NEIGHBORHOOD SHOPS, LENNAR WILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE MORE GREEN SPACE AREAS AND COMMON AREAS IN THE COMMUNITY. ONE THING LENNAR IS ALSO LOOKING INTO IS, WHILE THEY ARE STILL DESIROUS OF HAVING A COMBINED POND FEATURE , THEY ARE ALSO ANALYZING WHAT A STANDALONE POND WOULD LOOK LIKE ON THIS SITE. BECAUSE THOSE WERE OTHER COMMENTS WE RECEIVED. I WILL GET IT TO THE DRAINAGE AGAIN IN THE NEXT TOPIC OF DISCUSSION.

THOSE ARE ITEMS THAT THEY ARE LOOKING AT, SO THEY CAN COME BACK AND SHOW THE DIFFERENT OPTIONS AND THE IMPACTS. I APPRECIATE YOU INDULGING MY SLIGHTLY LONG , BRIEF COMMENTS ON THE FIRST TOPIC OF DISCUSSION. WITH THAT SAID, I WILL PUT UP, THIS IS THE CURRENT CONCEPT PLAN WE ARE WORKING ON WITH SLIGHT TWEAKS. ONE OF THE THINGS WE POINT OUT,? HAD A GOOD POINT. WHEN IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD SHOPS WERE STILL AN ELEMENT, SHE SUGGESTED SWITCHING THE TOWNHOMES TO A

[00:25:03]

>> THANK YOU. DEPARTMENT? >> THANK YOU. I THINK OVERALL, STAFF STILL PREFERS THE CURRENT LAYOUT AND MIX OF USES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. WE DO BELIEVE THAT WORKING WITH PETITIONER'S OVERTIME. WE THOUGHT THIS WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE PLAN. IT HAS GOOD TRANSITIONS, LAND USES FROM SOUTH TO NORTH. IS LOCATION AROUND A BUSY 146TH STREET. WE ENCOURAGE MIXED USES. ESPECIALLY WITH THEIR PLAN AND EXECUTED APPROPRIATELY. -- AND NOT BE FORCED TO DRIVE EVERYWHERE.

MIXED-USE CAN TAKE SOME TRAFFIC OFF OF THOSE MAJOR ROADS. OR USING INTERNAL STREETS TO GET SOMEWHERE IF THEY CHOOSE TO DRIVE. AND IT IS MAYBE JUST A SHORT DRIVE. ALSO, THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN DOES SUPPORT THIS AS A WHOLE. SO WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT THE NEW SITE PLAN WOULD LOOK LIKE WITH IT ONLY BEING RESIDENTIAL AND SEE IF WE CAN SUPPORT THAT OR NOT. LIKE I SAID, RIGHT NOW, WE STILL HAVE SUPPORT FOR THE MIX OF USES AND WOULD PREFER TO TALK ABOUT -- I KNOW THERE ARE CONCERNS ABOUT IT. AND IT WOULD BE A CHANGE FOR THIS SITE WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD SHOPS THERE. I WAS HOPING WITH THE COMMITTEE WE CAN TALK ABOUT THOSE ISSUES.

WHAT ARE THE CONCERNS? LET'S TALK ABOUT NOISE AND LIGHTING.

AND ARE THERE THINGS WE CAN DO TO LESSEN -- TO IMPROVE THE DEVELOPMENT. WE CAN TALK ABOUT WHAT IT WILL LOOK LIKE . AND GO THROUGH THE TRAFFIC STUDY THAT WAS DONE THAT SHOWED THE STREETS CAN HANDLE THIS DEVELOPMENT, INCLUDING THE PROJECT . THAT IS KIND OF WHERE WE STAND NOW. OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE TO CONTINUE AND MOVE TO THE NEXT COMMITTEE MEETING . I WOULD BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS NOW.

>> THANK YOU. INTERESTING CHANGE OF EVENTS. GO AHEAD.

>> I AM ACTUALLY IN FAVOR OF TAKING OUT THE COMMERCIAL END OF THIS PLAN. I THINK THAT IS A GOOD MOVE AND IF YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT REPLACING IT. I LIKE THE IDEA OF THE TWO-STORY DETACHED HOMES. WE ARE HERE ON THE HOUSING TASK FORCE THAT OUR YOUNG PROFESSIONALS ARE LOOKING TO BUY SOMETHING. AND THIS WOULD FULFILL THAT DEMOGRAPHIC. I LIKE THAT PLAN AND LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING WHAT YOU WILL PROPOSE. AND I AM NOT SOLD ON THE SHARE POND. I DON'T THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE TWO PONDS. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE IN THE NEXT MEETING.

BUT I APPRECIATE YOU TAKING IN ALL THE COMMENTS. THANK YOU.

>> I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS A QUESTION FOR PETITIONER OR STAFF, MAYBE IN A WORLD THAT'S COMING UP WORLD I CAME UP WITH THIS. I THOUGHT THE COUNTY PUT YOU UP TO THE MEGA POND

THIS CAME FROM A HIGHER BODY. >> THE ANSWER IS, NO. THAT WAS MY NEXT TOPIC OF DISCUSSION. IF YOU WANT TO GET INTO THE POND

AND DRAINAGE I CAN DO THAT. >> JON DOBOSIEWICZ SLIGHTLY MISSPOKE AT AUGUST 12TH MEETING. IT WAS NOT THE COUNTY THAT REQUESTED THE PONDS. WHEN LENNAR WAS LOOKING AT THE SITE AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD SHOP ELEMENT, THEY LOOKING AT DRAINAGE NEEDS AND OTHER CONSIDERATIONS. THEY APPROACH THE COUNTY HIGHWAY. THE DRAINAGE FEATURE AND POND IS ACTUALLY ITS OWN -- IT WOULD BE ESSENTIALLY REGULATED, GOVERNED

[00:30:05]

GLAD I AM HERE. >> WE HAVE A RECORD OF JIM

THROWING HIM UNDER THE BUS. >> WITH THAT SAID, THE DIALOGUE THAT STARTED TO OCCUR BETWEEN LENNAR REPRESENTATIVES, COUNTY HIGHWAY DEPARTMENT , PRELIMINARY DISCUSSION WITH THE SURVEYOR'S OFFICE WAS THAT WE WERE NOT GIVEN ANY OPPOSITION TO THE POSSIBILITY OF COMBINING -- THE MOST IMPORTANT ELEMENT , I AM NOT AN ENGINEER. BUT ALL ENGINEERS KNOW, IT'S A MATTER OF HOW THEY DESIGN, ARE THE MEETING ALL THE STANDARDS AND REQUIREMENTS? IT DOES NOT TAKE AWAY THE IMPORTANCE OF HOW THE COMBINED POND -- TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, IT WAS SOMETHING LENNAR WAS INTERESTED IN. THEY PURSUED THOSE DISCUSSIONS , TO THE POINT THAT THE MEETING IN AUGUST THAT THERE WAS CONCERN ABOUT HOW JOINT MAINTENANCE OF UPON FEATURE WOULD WORK. -- HAS BEEN IN PRELIMINARY GENERAL DISCUSSIONS WITH DAVID COMPTON OF -- AS WELL AS WITH PAUL RIO OF PLATINUM PROPERTIES. -- IS THE BUILDERS IN THAT COMMUNITY. PLATINUM PROPERTIES WAS THE DEVELOPER. BASED ON WHERE THE COMMUNITY IS THAT IN ITS EVOLUTION, THOSE ENTITIES CONTROLLED THE H AWAY BORED AND CAN MAKE PROPER DECISIONS. AND THEY WOULD MAKE DECISIONS IN THE BEST ENTRANCE NATIONAL INTEREST OF THE RESIDENTS.

BECAUSE LENNAR SEES THE VALIDITY AND POTENTIALLY HAVING A HARD JUSCO -- PONDER. ONE OF THE PLANS IN OCTOBER WAS TO DISCUSS WHAT CAN BE DONE. THE MOST IMPORTANT ELEMENT ABOUT THE DRAINAGE IN THE POND IT IS IT NEEDS TO BE PROPERLY DESIGNED AND FUNCTIONS. WITH THAT SAID, WHEN WE COME BACK WITH TWO CONCEPT PLANS THAT SHOW A STANDALONE POND -- WE WILL BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT THE UPSIDE AND DOWNSIDE OF EACH.

I'VE ASKED LENNAR, THEY ARE A WONDERFUL CLIENT AND THEY LOVE IT WHEN I SPEND THEIR MONEY. I ASKED IF THEY COULD ENGAGE IN -- TO LOOK AT THE ACTUAL TREES. NOT ONLY ON THE SOUTHERN PERIMETER, WHERE THERE IS MUCH LESS EXISTING TREE COLLABORATION. BUT LOOKING AT THE TREE COVER AND THE TREES THAT EXIST IN THE SOUTHEASTERN PORTION. WHILE I AM NOT AN ARBORIST OR ENGINEER, I DO KNOW TREES ARE VERY IMPORTANT, BUT IT IS THE CONDITION AND HEALTH OF THE TREES. BASED ON AN ARBORIST DOING A TREE INVENTORY AND ANALYSIS, WE MIGHT FIND THAT THERE ARE SOME TREES THAT ARE IN BETTER CONDITIONS THAN OTHERS AND WORK RESERVING. AND VICE VERSA. IN ADDITION TO THAT, I WOULD WANT LENNAR TO LOOK AT IF IT WERE A COMBINED POND, IF SOME EXISTING TREATY TO BE REMOVED BECAUSE OF THEIR CONDITION OR LOCATION. BECAUSE WHEN YOU BRING IN -- YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT UTILITIES AND LOCATION. BUT WHAT CAN THEY DO TO CREATE SOME MORE BUFFERS? THAT IS PROBABLY WHY YOU PREFER DR. SCHAEFFER'S TO PRESENT, HE IS MORE CONCISE. TO CORRECT THE RECORD OF HOW IT OCCURRED , THAT IS THE CONTENT I WANTED TO GENERALLY SUMMARIZE IN THIS NEXT TOPIC OF DISCUSSION.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, JIM. I SHOULD BECAUSE OUR KIDS WENT TO SCHOOL TOGETHER. FIRST OF ALL, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK THE

[00:35:03]

INITIALLY, WHEN I LOOKED AT THE PROJECT, I WAS NOT AGAINST THE CONDITIONAL VELVET. ONLY BECAUSE OF PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.

MY GRANDPARENTS LIVED IN A COMMUNITY JUST LIKE THIS. THEY BUILT THEIR HOUSE IN 1952. IT HAD A COMMERCIAL NOTE NEXT TO A VERY BUSY STREET. ACROSS THE STREET FROM THAT WAS A BIG -- THERE WERE A LOT OF COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES ALONG THE WAY. WHEN I WOULD GO TO THEIR HOUSE, WE WOULD WALK 1000 FEET. I THOUGHT, THAT WOULD BE FANTASTIC. BUT THEN LISTENING TO THE FEEDBACK FROM THE NEIGHBORS , I DID NOT LIVE THERE, MY GRANDPARENTS IT. I DO NOT LIVE THERE, YOU WOULD THERE. THE FACT THAT YOU ARE RECONSIDERING IT AND REPLACING IT WITH HOUSES, WHICH WE REALLY NEED IN CARMEL . IT IS A REALLY BIG LEAP. I CANNOT THANK YOU ENOUGH FOR TAKING THEIR THOUGHTS AND COMMENTS INTO CONSIDERATION. THANK YOU SO

MUCH. >> I APPRECIATE THE REFERENCE TO BEN FRANKLIN. SOME OF US WHO HAVE LIVED HERE REMEMBER THERE WAS A BRENT FRANKLIN GROCERY SHOP .

>> I DID NOT WANT TO AGE MYSELF.

>> I AM JUST SAYING. I HAVE NOT HEARD THAT COMMENT IN A LONG

TIME. >> THANK YOU FOR THE CONSIDERATION . MY COMMENTS, I HAVE THREE. IF YOU ARE GOING TO RECONSIDER COMMERCIAL AND COME BACK WITH AN OPTION TO KEEP IT IN, NO DRIVE-THROUGH . I THINK THAT WAS THE NUMBER ONE LOUD AND CLEAR THING. I AM NOT IN FAVOR OF COMMERCIAL -- AT ALL.

I HEARD YOU SAY, THERE MIGHT BE SOME RECONSIDERATION. IF THERE IS, I WOULD ONLY ENTERTAIN AS ONE-VOTE, WALK UP. NOT DRIVE-THROUGH. BUT, I WOULD PREFER NOT SEEING IT. MY SECOND COMMENT IS, IF COMMERCIAL GOALS, THE NUMBER ONE CONCERN OUTSIDE OF COMMERCIAL AND DRAINAGE IS THE DENSITY. NOT JUST WITH THIS COMPLEX, BUT EVERYWHERE. IF I HEAR ONE COMMENT MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE, IF A HIGH DENSITY . AND THE PEOPLE WHO OF ALREADY LIVED IN ESTABLISHED NEIGHBORHOODS DO NOT WANT THAT. CONSIDERING THE NEIGHBORHOOD ADJACENT , THE DENSITY OF THIS PROJECT IS ABOUT 40% HIGHER DENSITY THAN THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO THE EAST . THE NAME OF WHICH IS ESCAPING ME. IF COMMERCIAL GOALS, AND YOU DECIDE TO EXPAND WITH MORE TOWNHOMES, WHICH I THINK IS GREAT, I WOULD PREFER TO SEE NO INCREASED DENSITY. IN OTHER WORDS, TAKE THE DENSITY WHERE YOU ARE NOW AND SPREAD IT OUT AMONG THE LAND AREA THAT YOU HAVE. MY THIRD CONCERN IS ON TWO PONDS VERSUS ONE POND.

HAVING BEEN PRESIDENT OF AN H AWAY -- HOA -- YOU WILL LEARN A GREAT DEAL ABOUT CONSTITUENT SERVICES AND GOOD LISTING. TWO HOA'S WORKING TOGETHER TO MAINTAIN A COMMON ANYTHING WILL ONLY BE AS GOOD AS THE CURRENT MEMBERS OF THOSE H AWAY BOARDS -- I AM NOT IN FAVOR OF SEEING TWO HOA'S HAVE A SHARED RESPONSIBILITY OF ANYTHING. THAT IS FROM PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE. THANK YOU FOR LISTENING. I DO APPRECIATE THE DIRECTION YOU ARE GOING. I JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR ABOUT WHERE I

AM COMING FROM. >> IF I COULD JUST MAKE SOME OBSERVATIONS ON A COUPLE OF ITEMS. IF I MISSPOKE, I WANT TO CORRECT THE RECORD. THERE ARE NO PLANS TO REINTRODUCE NEIGHBORHOOD SHOPS. PERIOD. THE ONLY POSSIBILITY, AND I DO NOT PROCEED HAPPENING UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES IS IF WE ARE ABLE TO GET THIS PROJECT TO THE COUNCIL , AND A MAJORITY OF THE COUNCILMEMBERS WANT TO SEE NEIGHBORHOOD SHOPS . IT WOULD NOT BECAUSE LENNAR WOULD COME BACK AND ASK. FOR THE RECORD,

[00:40:03]

INAUDIBLE ] BASED ON THE MASS, APPLE SITE IS 4.39 UNITS AND ACRE. WE ARE DIFFERENT -- BUT NOT DRASTICALLY DIFFERENT.

SADDLE CREEK WAS DEVELOPED OVER 20 YEARS AGO WHICH HAD DIFFERENT WAYS OF LOOKING AT THINGS. SADDLE CREEK IS AN ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL NEIGHBORHOOD. BUT 20 YEARS AGO, HUNDRED 46 STREET WAS ONE LANE EACH WAY. IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN TWO. BUT AS WE LOOK AT HOW 146 STREET HAS DEVELOPED OVER TIME AND WHAT AN IMPORTANT CORE DOOR IT IS -- NO WONDER YOU ARE SEEING THE GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT, ESPECIALLY ON THE NORTH SIDE OF 146 STREET. YOU HAVE RETAIL, MULTIFAMILY, TOWNHOMES. THIS PARTICULAR AREA RIGHT HERE, IF YOU CAN ENVISION VILLAGE PARK PLAZA IN WESTFIELD AND YOU TAKE WHERE THE WALMART IS LOCATED AND GO ALL THE WAY TO WHERE FIVE GUYS IS THAT, THAT IS ABOUT THIS AREA. I ONLY POINT THAT OUT BECAUSE WHEN WE LOOK AT THIS MAP, AND WE THINK ABOUT DENSITY, WE ALL MIGHT HAVE CERTAIN OPINIONS. BUT WHEN WE LOOK AT THIS MAP AND THINK ABOUT WHAT IS GOING AROUND, IT IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT. I RESPECT THOSE COMMENTS AND WE WILL TAKE THEM TO HEART. I AM TRYING TO USE THIS AS AN OPPORTUNITY. AS I SIT IN THE HOUSING COMMISSION MEETINGS, THERE ARE DISCUSSIONS TO TALK ABOUT DENSITY AND WHAT IS APPROPRIATE. THAT IS WHY SOME OF DISCUSSION WE ARE HAVING ABOUT STANDALONE PONDS VERSUS COMBINED PONDS. I THINK WHATEVER POND IS LANDED UPON , WILL BE MORE IMPORTANT IS HOW IT IS POTENTIALLY BUFFERED.

BECAUSE THAT HELPS. >> I APPRECIATE THAT. AND I HAVE ATTENDED A NUMBER OF HOUSING CONFERENCES AND HAVE WATCHED ALL OF THE HOUSING TASK FORCE VIDEOS. I UNDERSTAND THERE IS A DESIRE FOR ATTAINABLE HOUSING, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT RESIDENTS DO NOT WANTED IN THEIR BACKYARD. I WILL STAND CORRECTED WITH YOUR NUMBERS. WOULD YOU REPEAT AGAIN WHAT THE DENSITY OF THIS PROPOSAL AS IT STANDS NOW IS?

>> THE CURRENT LENNAR PROPOSAL IS 5.8 UNITS AND ACRE, -- IS APPROXIMATELY 4.93 UNITS PER ACRE. NOT TO GIVE ANYONE HOMERED. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TAKE MY WORD FOR IT. IF I MISSPOKE FOR THE SECOND TIME -- WILL KILL ME. MAYBE ALEXIA CAN RUN THOSE NUMBERS SO YOU'RE GETTING IT FROM STAFF.

>> ANOTHER QUESTION I WOULD LIKE TO ASK IS IF YOU ARE THINKING OF THE TWO STORY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL , WAS THERE NO THOUGHT INTO PUTTING IN SOME OF THE PRODUCTS THAT ARE IN THAT LEGACY? WERE YOU HAVE THE TWO ADJOINING HOUSES ?

>> I THINK YOU MIGHT BE REFERRING TO THE FIND CRAFT HOMES THAT -- BUILT. THEY ARE BEAUTIFULLY DESIGNED OF WHAT WE

[00:45:08]

AND THEN ON THE OTHER SIDE, YOU WILL SEE A FRONT GARAGE. THERE ARE FOUR IMPORTANT GROUPS. IF LENNAR WANTS TO LOOK AT ANY ATTACHED DUPLEX PRODUCT THEY MAY HAVE, IT IS SOMETHING THEY CAN LOOK AT BETWEEN NOW AND THE COMMITTEE.

>> I WAS JUST WONDERING. I DID NOT MEAN TO SAY LENNAR.

>> ALL OF THESE GUYS LOVE EACH OTHER, THEY GET ALONG FINE.

>> RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO -- YOU HAVE A LOT OF TOWNHOMES. IF YOU GO FARTHER WEST, WE HAVE -- TO PROVIDE THAT PRODUCT OF DETACHING FAMILY OWNERSHIP OPPORTUNITIES IS SOMETHING WE HAVE -- LOOKING FOR. I LIKE YOUR SUGGESTION, FOR WHAT IT IS

WORTH. >> I RETRACT MY STATEMENT.

>> I DITTO CHRISTINE. >> JUST TO REMIND EVERYONE, THESE TOWNHOMES ARE TWO STORIES. LENNAR HAS A GREAT PRODUCT. ONE LAST COMMENT ON THE WHOLE DRAINAGE. I KNOW YOU REALIZE THAT THIS. FOR THE PUBLIC'S BENEFIT, WE ARE AT THE REZONE STAGE. RIGHTFULLY SO, FOR THIS PROJECT, WE ARE LOOKING FOR DRAINS IN MORE DETAIL THAN WE MIGHT TYPICALLY LOOK AT IN EACH PROJECT. IF THIS PROJECT -- FROM THE COUNCIL PROCESS, LENNAR WOULD HAVE TO -- DEVELOPMENT APPROVAL. I AM ONLY POINTING OUT THAT THE DRAINAGE DISCUSSION, IF LENNAR IS SUCCESSFUL WITH THE REZONE STAGE WOULD ONLY GET FURTHER REFINED. WE ARE WAY AHEAD OF

THE CURVE. >> YOU INITIALLY DISCUSSED THE BIG PICTURE. I THINK YOU ARE LOOKING FOR FEEDBACK. WE JUMPED IN AND MAYBE JUMPED AHEAD TO DRAINAGE AND OTHER THINGS. I DO NOT WANT TO BE REPETITIVE. I HAVE SIMILAR COMMENTS TO OTHER PLANNING COMMISSIONERS WITH SPOKEN. YOU HAVE QUITE A TASK AHEAD OF YOU ALL. BALANCING THE ELIMINATION OF COMMERCIAL , THE TYPES OF PRODUCTS YOU GOT IN THE SITE AND ULTIMATELY THE DENSITY. AND I GUESS YOU'VE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT WHAT THE DENSITY IS. I WAS GOING TO ASK TO MAYBE COME TO THE NEXT COMMITTEE MEETING WITH A SUMMARY OF DENSITY AND SOME OF THE OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS MENTION. I AM EMPATHETIC BECAUSE I THINK I MENTIONED THE LAST MEETING ON THE COST OF DEVELOPMENT GO UP. THE DENSITY HELPS TO OFFSET THE COST AND HELP PROVIDE MULTIPLE PRODUCTS . AND MAYBE ADDRESS THE HOUSING QUESTION TO TALK ABOUT. AT THE SAME TIME, IF WE ELIMINATE COMMERCIAL , I JUST REQUEST, DO NOT STUFF A TON OF ADDITIONAL DENSITY IN THERE. BUT THE CORNER THAT RUNS AWAY FROM SADDLE CREEK, MAYBE THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR CONTINUED STEPS AND TRANSITIONAL PRODUCTS. I WOULD -- COUNTY INVOLVED, AND THE STATUS OF THE DEVELOPMENT VERSUS BEING TURNED OVER TO THE HOA, MAYBE THAT CAN HELP BIG PICTURE WISE AS FAR AS PRESERVING TREES. WE CAN ELIMINATE OR CAPITALIZE UPON SAFETY LEDGES AND THOSE THINGS HAPPENING UNDERWATER .

THEY COULD HELP US MAKE THE DRAINAGE ORDERED EDGE -- ORDINANCE. THERE ARE A LOT OF MOVING PARTS AND THINGS COMPETING WITH EACH OTHER. SO, GOOD LUCK.

>> SOMEONE SAID IF IT WAS EASY WE WOULD ALL BE SELLING SHOES

[00:50:02]

IS GOING TO TAKE OUT AN ACCOUNT ASSOCIATED WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD SHOPS AND WHATEVER NUMBER OF NEW HOMES MIGHT BE ADDED TO THE PROJECT, IT WILL BE CALIBRATED. IT WAS SUBMITTED TO DOCS STAFF. FOR THE PUBLIC OFFICE BENEFIT, THE TRAFFIC STUDY WAS CONDUCTED IN MAY, 2024 DURING A TYPICAL SCHOOL DAY. THEY RAN PEAK TIMES IN THE MORNING FROM 6:00 A.M. TO 9:00 A.M. AND AGAIN AT 3:30 TO 7:00 AT NIGHT. THAT ACTUAL TRAFFIC STUDY AT THE TIME, BECAUSE THE PRODUCT WAS MOVING INFLUX, IT ACTUALLY PROPOSED 99 HOMES AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD SHOPS. THE IDEA IS, THE TRAFFIC STUDY WOULD BE UPDATED WITH A MEMO WE CAN SUBMIT TO STAFF IN ADVANCE OF THE OCTOBER MEETING. WHAT WAS IMPORTANT ABOUT THAT, BECAUSE THERE WERE COMMENTS IN THE PUBLIC LETTERS AND IN SOME OF THE PUBLIC COMMENTS IN THE AUGUST MEETING. THE INTERSECTIONS THAT WERE STUDIED WERE TOWN ROAD AND 146 STREET, TOWN ROAD AND OLD 125TH STREET , AND DITCH ROAD AND OLD 146 STREET. THE TRAFFIC STUDY BASED ON THAT ANALYSIS WAS THAT TOWN AND 146 STREET AND THAT TOWN AND OLD 146 STREET , INCLUDING DITCH ROAD AND OTHER INTERSECTIONS WERE OPERATING AT -- LEVELS OF SERVICES. THEY WOULD BE AROUND A AND B , AND SIMILAR TO A DITCH. AND NO IMPROVEMENTS WERE RECOMMENDED OR SUGGESTED AT THAT TIME. WE WILL UPDATE THAT TRAFFIC STUDY AND PRESENT IT TO STAFF SO YOU HAVE IT FOR YOUR REVIEW. ANY COMMENTS? OR SUGGESTIONS ON

TRAFFIC STUDY? >> ACTUALLY HAVE NO COMMENTS.

YOU ARE DOING A GREAT JOB, BY THE WAY. I SHOULD TAKE A STEP BACK. I JUST WANT TO BE CONSISTENT BECAUSE I'VE SAID THIS 1 MILLION TIMES ON RECORD. BUT I WANT TO APPLY IT TO THIS AS WELL. A VERY WISE MAN ONCE TOLD ME WHEN YOU DRIVE BY THIS DEVELOPMENT, -- WHETHER IT IS 5.7 UNITS PER ACRE OR 6.1 UNITS, YOU WILL NOT DRIVE BY AND SAY, I SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 57 AND 61. BUT IF IT LENGTH THE DEVELOPMENT OF PROPERTY , AS OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE POINTED OUT, MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, I AM A FAN. SIMILARLY, IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. WE GO TO SUCH GREAT LENGTHS TO PROTECT TREES.

I KNOW EVERYBODY HAS HEARD ME MAKE THIS COMMENT BEFORE. AND IT SOUNDS WEIRD BEING THE TREE HUGGING GUY. WHAT ARE WE SAVING AND WHAT ARE WE PROTECTING? I DRIVE AROUND AND LOOK AT PROJECTS WHERE WE WERE VALIDLY -- VALIANTLY TRYING TO SAVE A BATCH OF TREES. AND I LOOK AT IT AND I SAY, WE SHOULD HAVE TOOK OUT THE INVASIVE. CUT DOWN THE DEAD STUFF. AND WE SHOULD HAVE DONE THAT ON DAY ONE SO DAY TWO FRESH STUFF STARTED COMING BACK. IN FIVE OR 10 YEARS LATER WE WOULD HAVE A VIBRANT FOREST. MY OPINION ABOUT -- IS TO PULL THE BAND-AID OFF AND MAKE THE OTHER STUFF GO AWAY. THE STUFF THAT IS UNHEALTHY. MAKE IT GO AWAY AS SOON AS POSSIBLE AND LET'S START LETTING GOOD STUFF COME BACK. AND SUPPLEMENTED, AS YOU POINTED OUT. MAKE IT A HEALTHY BUFFER. MORE TREES, MORE TREES.

>> WE APPRECIATE THAT . AND WE WILL ALL BE WORKING FROM A BETTER FACTBOOK. THE NEXT TOPIC TO REVIEW IS A REQUEST FOR RENTAL COMMITMENTS. I WANT TO SHARE SOME BIG PICTURE OBSERVATIONS. BEFORE I SET THE STAGE, LENNAR IS ABSOLUTELY NOT SAYING NO RENTAL COMMITMENTS. I WANT TO BE CLEAR. WHAT WE ARE STARTING TO LEARN IN THIS INDUSTRY, FROM PEOPLE IN LAND USE, BUILDERS AND DEVELOPERS, WE REALIZE THERE ARE SOMETIMES UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES. THIS IS NOT PERTAIN TO SHORT-TERM RENTALS . WE WILL COMPLY WITH THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL

[00:55:08]

ARE BEING BEING PLACED IN LESS -- BECAUSE OF RENTAL RESTRICTIONS? I DO NOT KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT YET. WE ARE GOING TO LOOK INTO IT. BECAUSE ESPECIALLY ACTIVE MILITARY PERSONNEL, THEY MIGHT NOT BE ON THE BEST SOIL, OR LOOKING TO RELAY KATE -- RELOCATE SUMMERALL. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THERE'S NOT A NEGATIVE IMPEDIMENT TO THOSE FOLKS WANTING TO GET FINANCING. -- I WANT TO MENTION THAT. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE NOT COMMITTED A DRAFT OF ANYTHING. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE KNOW WE ARE DOING. I AM NOT TRYING TO GIVE CITY LEGAL ANY MORE WORK, THEY PROBABLY DO NOT NEED IT. I DO THINK IT IS SOMETHING THAT COMMUNITIES AND MUNICIPALITIES MIGHT WANT TO LOOK AT. I UNDERSTAND YOU ARE GOING TO GET A LOT OF REQUESTS. ANYTIME A NEW SITE UNDERGOES DEVELOPMENT , IT WOULD MAKE SENSE FROM THE ADJOINING NEIGHBORHOODS TO REQUEST SOMETHING. BECAUSE OF CONCERN PEOPLE HAVE. WE WANT TO AVOID UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES. AT THE RISK OF GOING ON FURTHER PHILOSOPHICALLY, WE ARE GOING TO LOOK INTO THAT AND WE ARE GOING TO COME BACK AND REPORT TO YOU WITH A LITTLE MORE DETAIL, AND THE ASSIGNMENTS WE'VE GIVEN OURSELVES IS TO UNDERSTAND BETTER IF THERE ANY IMPEDIMENTS, WHAT THEY ARE, AND HOW TO ADDRESS THEM. ADMITTEDLY, CARMEL IS NOT THE ONLY COMMUNITY . THIS IS NOW BECOMING A COMMON REQUEST.

DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES ARE EXPRESSING IN DIFFERENT WAYS.

BUT THE HOME BUILDING INDUSTRY IS NOW CATCHING UP TO THIS.

SOME COMMUNITIES WILL HAVE A PERCENTAGE. THEY WILL SAY, YOU CAN ONLY RUN OUT OVER 20% OF THE HOME. IF THEY ARE, IT HAS TO BE FOR CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME. BUT THEN THERE ARE HARDSHIP PROVISIONS. BECAUSE SOMETIMES, SOMEONE MAY HAVE A MEDICAL EMERGENCY OR GET RELOCATED FROM JOB A OR JOB B.

OTHER COMMUNITIES, THEY HAVE BEEN DESIRING A MORE ACROSS-THE-BOARD , SLIGHTLY DRACONIAN APPROACH. WHERE IT IS LIKE, NO, WHOEVER BUYS IT , THAT PERSON HAS TO OWN IT FOR A FULL YEAR AND AFTER THAT YEAR, THEY CAN RENT IT OUT. IN THOSE SITUATIONS, EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE WAITING A YEAR, YOU WOULD ALLOW THEORETICALLY ANYONE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO RENT IT OUT. AT THE RISK OF GOING ON TOO LONG, WE WILL LOOK INTO IT FURTHER.

WE OWE IT TO YOU AS WELL. AND OURSELVES AS AN INDUSTRY. AND THEN WE COME BACK WITH SUGGESTIONS ON DRAFT COMMITMENTS. IF YOU SEE THAT WE DECIDE WE WANT TO EXCLUDE VETERANS, OR ACTIVE MILITARY PERSONNEL , THERE IS A REASON FOR IT. IT IS NOT BECAUSE WE ARE TRYING TO INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF POTENTIAL RENTALS IN A COMMUNITY. WE ARE TRYING TO KEEP THEM ON A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD WITH YOUR AVERAGE BUYER.

UNLESS THERE ARE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON MY PHILOSOPHICAL DISCUSSION ON RENTAL COMMITMENTS, I WILL TAKE THEM.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR LOOKING INTO THAT, JIM. I GUESS I UNDERSTAND THE REASONING BEHIND YOUR LOGIC. HOWEVER, MY CONCERN, AND I AM SORRY. THE PROBLEM WITH CARMEL IS PEOPLE WANT TO LIVE HERE. AND WE HAVE INSTITUTIONAL BUYERS THAT COME

[01:00:01]

BUT I DO BELIEVE IN ORDER TO PROTECT THE MARKET AND THE HOMES IN OUR COMMUNITY FROM INSTITUTIONAL BUYERS, THERE SHOULD BE SOME LANGUAGE IN THERE. I HAVE NO DESIRE TO KEEP A VETERAN OR FIRST-TIME HOMEBUYER OUT OF THE MARKET. I DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH INSTITUTIONAL BUYERS. IF THERE IS A WAY TO MITIGATE THAT, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT IN THE CHAIN OF TITLE. AND THAT JUST PUTS THE ONUS ON THE PROPERTY BUYER. SO THEY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE GETTING INTO.

>> I SUPPORT HER COMMENT AS WELL. YOU KNOW WHAT THE BIG PICTURE POINT IS. WE DON'T WANT TO SEE ALL OR MAJORITY OF THIS NEIGHBORHOOD CONVERTED TO RENTAL. AND THE INSTITUTIONAL RENTER, WE HAVE OUTSIDE THIRD PARTIES COMING IN AND BUYING BLOCKS. AND CONVERTING IT TO RENTAL. I'M SURE WE CAN WORK OUT WHATEVER NECESSARY EXCEPTIONS NEED TO BE CARVED OUT. THAT IS THE INTENTION BEHIND IT.

>> IF A PROPERTY IS A PORTAL, -- AFFORDABLE, UNLESS YOU COME BACK WITH RESEARCH THAT SHOWS THERE IS SOME NEW PROVISION HIDDEN SOME WELL, I DO NOT THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE A CONCERN FOR EXCLUDING VETERANS OF BEING ABLE TO PURCHASE HOMES, OR ACTIVE DUTY MILITARY THAT CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE VA LOAN. THERE OTHER THINGS BURIED IN THE FEDERAL CODE. YOU CAN ENLIGHTEN US AFTER YOU HAVE DONE YOUR RESEARCH. BUT I DO NOT THINK THIS, AS IT STANDS, EVEN IF THERE WERE NO CHANGES, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY IMPEDIMENT IN THIS PLAN TO A PERSON COMING AND OBTAINING A PROPERTY USING A VA LOAN. I JUST DO NOT SEE THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH THAT. AND I STRONGLY ECHO SHANNON AND CHRISTINE . WE DO NOT WANT UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES, TURNING AROUND AND ALLOWING THE MAJORITY OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO BECOME A FOR RENTAL PROPERTY. I JOIN THEM. THERE HAS GOT TO BE SIGNIFICANT SAFEGUARDS AGAINST

THAT HAPPENING. >> THOSE ARE ALL VERY FAIR

POINTS. >> WE ARE ALMOST TO THE FINISH LINE, UNLESS THERE ARE MORE COMMENTS. SOME FINAL MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS. THE ORIGINAL PROPOSAL DUE TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD SHOPS -- GANG COMMUNITY MAILBOX. JOHN DESCRIBE HOW IT IS BEING HANDLED BY THE POSTMASTER. WHEN YOU SEE THE NEXT VERSION OF THE CONCEPT PLANS, WE ARE GOING TO BREAK THOSE UP AND HAVE SOME SMALLER COMMUNITY MAILBOX STATIONS IN DIFFERENT AREAS. THEY ARE WORKING ON THAT ELEMENT. ALSO, A REQUEST WAS MADE FOR TRAIL CONNECTION . SO WE HAVE 146 ROAD FRONTAGE. A REQUEST WAS MADE FOR TRAIL ACCESS. WE WILL LOOK INTO THAT. I DO NOT THINK THERE WILL BE ANY IMPEDIMENT TO THAT. IT IS THE COUNTY RIGHT-OF-WAY . I THINK IT HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE. WE WILL LOOK INTO THAT, I DO NOT THINK IT WILL BE A PROBLEM. IT IS ON OUR LIST. SO WE WILL MAKE SURE WE LOOK INTO THAT. I TALKED ABOUT TREE INVENTORY AND THINGS LIKE THAT. ALSO, IT IS STILL ON OUR LIST. YOU ARE ALSO GOING TO RECEIVE IN YOUR COMMITTEE PACKET FOR THE OCTOBER MEETING A REVISED REDLINE PUD. IT WILL CARVE OUT ALL OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD SHOPS. ONE ITEM THAT WAS REQUESTED WAS TO MAKE SURE THE THE THREE AREAS , THAT THE HEIGHT MAXIMUM MATCHED THE PRODUCT. I THINK THE WAY WE HAD IT CURRENTLY

[01:05:06]

WITH THAT SAID, I APPRECIATE YOUR PATIENCE AND ALLOW ME TO GO THROUGH THESE COMMENTS IN TOPIC AREAS. I APPRECIATE HOW HARD LENORE HAS WORKED. AS A SIDE NOTE, LENORE HAS HAD A LOT OF NEIGHBORHOOD OUTREACH. I AM REALLY IMPRESSED BY IT. AGAIN, I SAID I WAS GOING TO STOP. THEY MET WITH SADDLE CREEK HOA BOARD. AND THEN WE SEND AN UPDATE IN JULY. ON THE PROJECT AND WHERE IT WAS AT. WE HAD AN H AWAY -- HOA BOARD MEETING.

SHADOWWOOD, I MISSPOKE EARLIER. THAT IS THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO THE DIRECT WEST. WE HAD TO REACH OUT TO THE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT COMPANY BECAUSE I COULD NOT FIND A DESIGNATED HOA BOARD. I LUST OF WHITE MALE -- I LEFT A VOICEMAIL. AFTER WE SCHEDULED THE FORMAL MEETING, ON AUGUST 8TH, THE DAY I MAILED OUT THE NEIGHBORHOOD NOTICE MEETING, I IMMEDIATELY EMAILED THE NOTICE TO SADDLE CREEK HOA BOARD TO SEND TO THEIR 200+ RESIDENTS.

AND ALSO THE LINCOLN SHOWER HOA BOARD. I WANTED TO GIVE LENNAR CREDIT, THEY WORKED HARD WITH GETTING THE WORD OUT. THAT WILL BE MY FINAL COMMENT. AND WE WILL TAKE ANY OTHER COMMENTS YOU HAVE BEFORE WE LEAVE TONIGHT.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH >> I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR COMING HERE TONIGHT SO WELL PREPARED TO ADDRESS RESIDENTS , AND THE COMMISSION . I KNOW IT IS DIFFICULT FOR THE DEPARTMENT BECAUSE THEY WERE ADVOCATING FOR A DIFFERENT DIRECTION. WE WILL HAVE TO SEE WHAT YOU COME BACK WITH. IT IS WELL RECEIVED BY ME. I WOULD ENCOURAGE TOWNHOMES . IF YOU NEED TO CHANGE THE DESIGN, HAVE THEM BE ALONG WHERE THE COMMERCIAL WAS.

I THINK WE ALL AGREE THE TWO-STORY PRODUCTS FOR YOUNG FAMILIES IS GREAT. BECAUSE OF THAT, CAN YOU ADD SPECIAL AMENITIES NOW THAT YOU HAVE MORE AREA? SOME TYPE OF INNOVATIVE PLAYGROUND OR SOMETHING THAT APPEALS TO FAMILIES. I KNOW WE HAVE PARKS AROUND, BUT IT WOULD BE NICE WITH THE -- FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE A DESTINATION. NOT NECESSARILY COMMERCIAL, BUT A PLACE TO GO AND GATHER. AND IT WOULDBE FUN FOR THE KIDS. THE LINEAR PARK IS GREAT FOR PICKUP SOCCER. BUT YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAYBE DO A LITTLE MORE IN THAT AREA. FOR THAT, IF NO ONE HAS ANYTHING, THIS WILL BE CONTINUED TO THE OCTOBER 1ST COMMITTEE MEETING. THANK YOU

ALL VERY MUCH. >> THANK YOU, I APPRECIATE YOUR

[01:10:04]