Oct 01, 2024 Carmel Plan Commission

[00:00:09]

>> GOOD EVENING, WELCOME TO THE OCTOBER 1ST CARMEL PLANNING COMMISSION, COMBINED MEETING OF RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL.

[1. Docket No. PZ-2024-00028 PUD: Towne 146 PUD Rezone]

>> YES, FOR THE RECORD, JON DOBOSIEWICZ AND NELSON & FRANKELBERGER, A LOT OF DIFFERENT FOLKS FROM THE CLIENT SIDE ARE HERE , I'M GOING TO USE THE TOPICS SUGGESTED FOR DISCUSSION FOR MY STAFF, IT IS ON THE TOP OF THE LAST PAGE OF THE STAFF REPORT. I WILL SPEND A LITTLE BIT OF TIME ON THAT TODAY, AND IN RESPONSE TO RECENT PUBLIC COMMENTS, THERE'S A LOT OF PUBLIC COMMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN RECEIVED BUT OVER THE LAST HALF-DOZEN OR SO, THEY HAVE CITED NOT HAVING A DESIRE FOR THE COMMERCIAL, NOT WANTING TO SEE IT GO FOR RENT AND NOT WANTING TO SEE A COUPLE OF THOSE OTHER ITEMS CEMENTED IN THE PLAN, AND THAT THE PLAN BE MODIFIED TO NOT INCLUDE COMMERCIAL AND MAYBE A REDUCED NUMBER OF UNITS ON THE SITE PLAN SO I WANTED TO PRESENT THAT TO YOU TONIGHT, THOSE REVISED PLANS, AND YOU SHOULD HAVE A DIGITAL COPY OF THE BROCHURE THAT WAS SENT LAST WEEK AND TWO ADDITIONAL ITEMS I'M GOING TO HAVE JIM PASS OUT THAT SPEAK TO MATTERS THAT WE HAVE IDENTIFIED IN THAT REPORT THAT WE PROVIDED TO YOU THIS EVENING AND WALK YOU THROUGH THOSE, ONE WITH REGARD TO TRAFFIC AND THE OTHER WITH REGARD TO TREE INVENTORY AND PRESERVATION ON THE SITE, SO JIM WILL DO THAT AS I PRESENT THE MATTER. JUST TO STEP BACK, QUITE FAR, IT IS APPROXIMATELY 16 ACRES, IT IS LOCATED AT THE SOUTH EAST QUADRANT OF TOWN ROAD AND 146TH STREET, AND SADDLE CREEK IS TO OUR SOUTH AND THE SHADOW WOULD NEIGHBORHOOD IS TO OUR WEST AND AS YOU RECALL, COMMISSION MEMBERS, THE USE IS ON THE SIDE OF 146TH STREET, IN GENERAL, THEY ARE LARGER CAPACITY COMMERCIAL USES. ON THIS 65 ACRES ON THE NORTH SIDE HERE AS WELL AS THE ACREAGE OF THE NORTHWEST QUADRANT AND THOSE ARE UNDER THE JURISDICTION OF THE CITY OF WESTFIELD FROM A PLANNING AND ZONING PERSPECTIVE. THIS NEXT LAYOUT SHOWS WHERE WE WERE ON TOP AND WHERE WE HAVE ARRIVED AT, THE PLAN, AS I WAS PRESENTING THIS EVENING, AS YOU CAN SEE, THE COMMERCIAL COMPONENT WHICH IS IDENTIFIED HERE AND THE ORIGINAL PLAN HAS BEEN REMOVED AND SUBSTITUTED WITH SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES, COINCIDENTALLY, WHILE IT IS NOT ON THE SITE, WITHIN SHADOWWOOD, THERE ARE NINE SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES ALONG THE PERIMETER AND WITHIN OUR PLAN ALONG THIS EDGE INCLUDING THE YELLOW LOT, THERE ARE EIGHT HOMES ON THIS SIDE OF TOWN ROAD. ALONG THE SOUTH PERIMETER, THE REAL ESTATE WITHIN SADDLE CREEK, THERE ARE 14 LOTS AND THE YELLOW LOT SHOWN HERE ALONG THE PERIMETER INCLUDES 17 LOTS. ALONG THE EAST PERIMETER, THERE ARE 13 HOMES, ALONG THE EAST PERIMETER INCLUDING THE THREE HERE IN YELLOW. OPPOSITE THAT, THERE ARE 13 DWELLINGS, ALL BUT ONE IS A TOWNHOME ON THAT OTHER SIDE OF THE DEVELOPMENT, THE MODIFICATION IS ALSO RESULTING, IF YOU LOOK ALONG THE NORTH SIDE, IT WAS EXCLUSIVELY TOWNHOMES IN THE COMMERCIAL BUILDING WOULD BE THE VIEW FROM 146TH STREET AND THE INTERSECTION OF TOWN ROAD, THE REVISED PLAN NOW INCLUDES 16 HOMES, ONLY 10 OF WHICH ARE TOWNHOMES, THE OTHER SIX ARE SINGLE-FAMILY DWELLINGS ALONG THAT PERIMETER SO THE TOWNHOMES ARE TUCKED IN INTERNALLY EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE ONLY TWO STORIES IN HEIGHT AND THE HOMES IDENTIFIED IN YELLOW OR TAN

[00:05:10]

[00:10:04]

FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE POND, THIS IS THE REVISED PLAN, WHEN I DID REACH OUT AND THEY DID MEET WITH CARMEL ENGINEERING, THEY DID NOT MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ON ONE VERSUS THE OTHER. THAT BEING AN EXPANSION TO THE EXISTING POND OR A SEPARATELY FREESTANDING POND ON THE REAL ESTATE. BUT THEY DID ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE EXPANSION OF THE EXISTING POND IS ILLUSTRATED HERE WHICH IS OUR PREFERENCE, IT WOULD HAVE GREATER WATER QUALITY BENEFITS THAN PROVIDING A SECOND SEPARATE POND ON THE REAL ESTATE ONLY THEN DISCHARGING TO THE NEXT POND ADJACENT WHICH WOULD BE THE POND WITHIN THAT SIDE TODAY. LIKE WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT WITH TRAFFIC, THE POND DESIGN AND THE TREE PRESERVATION, IT IS INCLUDED WITHIN THE REVISED PLAN. THE ARCHITECTURE REQUIREMENTS STAFF HAS ASKED US TO TAKE A LOOK AT A FEW ADDITIONAL ITEMS, AND WE WILL COME BACK TO YOU WITH THE NEXT MEETING WITH A MORE LENGTHY DISCUSSION AND DIALOGUE ABOUT THOSE ARCHITECTURAL STANDARDS, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF MAYBE ONE OR TWO SPECIFICALLY WITH REGARD TO PROVIDING A SIX-FOOT PORCH AREA. THESE HOMES ARE SMALLER IN DESIGN, THE MINIMUM WOULD BE 3 1/2 FOOT AS PROPOSED IN THE TOWNHOMES DON'T HAVE A SITUATION WHERE THERE IS A FULL FRONT PORCH ON THE FRONT OF THE DWELLING SO WE CANNOT COMMIT TO A SIX-FOOT EXTENDED DEEP PORCH IN THOSE PARTICULAR AREAS BUT I WILL GO THROUGH THOSE AS NECESSARY, IF THE PLANNING COMMISSION HAS QUESTIONS, AND I WANTED TO INTRODUCE TOM, AND LENNAR HOMES HAS ASKED TOM TO SHARE WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION HIS THOUGHTS REGARDING THE RENTAL RESTRICTION, IN PARTICULAR WITHIN THIS PIECE OF REAL ESTATE OR THE CITIES EXPLORING

[00:15:01]

RELATES TO THAT ITEM. >> COMMISSIONERS, THEY ASKED TO TALK ABOUT RENTAL RESTRICTION, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS BEEN REQUESTED HERE AT LEAST BY SOME OF THE DEMONSTRATORS, IS A COMPLETE BAN ON RENTALS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THAT IS PROBLEMATIC FOR SEVERAL REASONS , IT IMPLICATES FHA FINANCING, YOU CAN GET FHA FINANCING IF THERE ARE RESTRICTIONS ON GETTING RID OF THE PROPERTY AND ONE OF THOSE LEASEHOLD RESTRICTIONS, LEASEHOLD IS A PARTIAL CONVEYANCE OF THE PROPERTY. SO WE DON'T BELIEVE FHA FINANCING WOULD APPLY, ALSO VA FINANCING ALSO ALLOWS RESTRICTIONS IN VERY LIMITED CIRCUMSTANCES INVOLVING CONDOMINIUMS AND THE PARTICULAR EXISTING CONDOMINIUMS THAT WERE IN PLACE AT THE TIME THAT THE REGULATION WAS ENACTED WHICH WAS QUITE A FEW YEARS AGO, SO FHA AND VA FINANCING WOULD BE AVAILABLE, I DON'T THINK THAT IS PROBLEMATIC. FINALLY, AND THIS IS ONE THAT FRANKLY, I'M NOT SURE HOW BEST IT IS TO DESCRIBE IT BUT, THE FAIR HOUSING ACT AS TO WHETHER OR NOT RENTAL RESTRICTIONS LIKE THIS ARE ILLEGAL AND THEY ULTIMATELY ARE EXAMINED ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS AND CERTAINLY THERE'S NO DISCRIMINATORY INTENT HERE, WE KNOW WITH THE FAIR HOUSING ACT, THAT MEANS YOU CANNOT DISCRIMINATE WITH HOUSING BUT THERE ARE PLENTY OF CASES THAT TALK ABOUT THE IMPACT OF A RULE. IT SIMPLY MEANS THAT IF IT APPLIES TO PROTECTIVE CLASS APPLY TO ANYONE ELSE BUT IT CAN STILL BE DEEMED DISCRIMINATORY, AND INDIANA EXAMINED THIS ONCE IN A CASE IN 2008. IT WAS A 3-2 DECISION BY THE SUPREME COURT AND IN THAT CASE, THEY EXAMINED COVENANTS AND COVENANTS AND COMMITMENTS WOULD BE EXAMINED THE SAME IN MY OPINION. THEY SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE THINK THAT THESE ARE LEGAL AND THEY MIGHT STILL BE LEGAL BUT THAT GOT TO THE INDIANA SUPREME COURT LITIGATING IT AFTER THE NEIGHBORHOOD LOST ON THE COVENANT AT THE TRIAL COURT AT THE COURT OF APPEALS AND THAT WAS IN STATE COURT, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE RESULT WOULD BE IN FEDERAL COURT, BUT THE LONG PART OF IT IS, WE DON'T WANT TO BE INVOLVED IN ANY LITIGATION OVER COVENANTS THAT HAVE ANY ALLEGATION OF ANY SORT OF DISCRIMINATION AT ALL. SO I CAN'T STAND HERE AND TELL YOU THAT THESE ARE ILLEGAL. I CAN TELL YOU THAT, YOU KNOW WHAT, IF THEY WERE LITIGATED, THEY MIGHT COME OUT ON TOP AGAIN, IT WAS A 3-2 DECISION IN THE COVENANTS THAT WERE ENACTED AREN'T JIM CROW COVENANTS FROM THE 1950S OR 40S OR 30S, IN THIS CASE, THE COVENANTS WERE FROM 1990. IT INVOLVED A HARDSHIP SITUATION WHERE A WOMAN FELL AND HURT HIMSELF AND WENT INTO NURSING CARE, SO THEIR DAUGHTER NOT KNOWING WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN RENTED THE HOME, SO THEY SAID YOU CAN'T RENT IT, YOU NEED TO PRESERVE THIS FAMILY ASSET AND PERHAPS FOR THEIR PARENTS TO COME BACK NOW BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T AFFORD TO DO IT ALL. SO THEY ATTACKED COVENANTS , IT GOES ALL THE WAY TO THE INDIANA SUPREME COURT, THE SUPREME COURT SAID 3-2, THESE ARE VALID. SO LIKE I SAID, I CAN'T TELL YOU THAT THEY ARE NOT VALID BUT, WE DO WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE ISSUE AND THE CONCERN UNDERLYING THE REQUEST THAT RENTALS BE PROHIBITED IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND HOPEFULLY HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE CONCERNS UNDERLYING THAT REQUEST, ARE THERE OTHER WAYS THAT WE CAN ADDRESS THAT REQUEST OTHER THAN SIMPLY A FLAT OUT BAN ON RENTALS AND I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. I WILL JUST SIT HERE UNTIL YOU TELL ME TO GO HOME. THANK YOU. AND PLAN COMMISSION, WE ASKED TOM TO BE HERE BECAUSE HE HAS EXPERTISE IN THIS AREA AND WE DON'T, SO I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE BEST TO

[00:20:01]

THAT IS ALL ON THE ISSUE OF RENTAL RESTRICTION.

>> OKAY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> FOR THE RECORD, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE [INDISCERNIBLE] SINCE THE LAST MEETING, THE CONCEPT PLAN HAS BEEN MODIFIED AND THE PETITIONER HAS REMOVED THOSE SMALL SHOPS THAT WOULD PROVIDE SOME PLACES FOR RESIDENTS TO WALK OR BIKE TO, THERE ARE 87 DWELLINGS PROPOSED PER DENSITY OF 5.5 UNITS OF ACRE, THE PREVIOUS PLAN HAD A DENSITY OF 5.87 UNITS PER ACRE. AND IN THE PACKET, YOU SAW THE DISTRICT IS PROPOSING TWO OPTIONS FOR EXPANDING THE SITE POND TO THE EAST BUILDING IS MY RETENTION POND IN THE SOUTHERN PORTION OF THE PROPERTY. WE ARE STILL CONTINUING TO REVIEW THE PUD WITH THESE CHANGES AND WORK THROUGH OUR REMAINING COMMENTS, RIGHT NOW I THINK WE STOP AT EAST 25 -- AT LEAST 25 AND THERE'S OTHER OUTSTANDING COMMENTS FROM THE TECH MEMBERS SO WE ARE HOPING TO HASH OUT SOME OF THOSE AND THAT IS WHY WE DID RECOMMEND TONIGHT THAT THIS BE CONTINUED TO THE NEXT

COMMITTEE MEETING. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH, I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS FOR YOU, I'M SORRY I DIDN'T CATCH YOUR

NAME. >> SORRY, I DIDN'T INTRODUCE MYSELF FULLY, MY NAME IS THOMAS BEDSILL. YOU CAN CALL ME TOM.

>> FANTASTIC, FIRST OF ALL I DON'T THINK THE COMMISSION WAS ASKING FOR A TOTAL BAN ON RENTALS AT ALL, I THINK THE MAJORITY OF US WOULD REALIZE THAT WOULD BE ILLEGAL BY ANY MEASURE. I THINK THE QUESTION THAT WE WERE TRYING TO FOCUS ON WAS PUTTING IN SOME RESTRICTIONS THAT WOULD -- THE CONCERN IS, THE TOWNHOMES SPECIFICALLY, I WILL USE THAT AS AN EXAMPLE, AND THE THOUGHT PROCESS IS WE DON'T WANT INSTITUTIONAL BUYERS COMING INTO THE AREA, BUYING UP SWABS, WHICH HAPPENS NATIONWIDE WHICH WE ALL KNOW, AND TURNING THEM INTO A MENTAL BLOCK. THE SITE PLAN HAS CHANGED DRASTICALLY SINCE WE HAVE SEEN IT LAST, CORRECT? BUT THE RENTAL RESTRICTIONS WE WERE FOCUSING ON AT THE TIME WERE SIMPLY TO PUT IN A SPECIFIC DATE, OR EXCUSE ME, SO MANY YEARS OF OWNING THE PROPERTY SO THAT WHEN SOMEBODY BUYS THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO RENT IT FOR THREE YEARS WITH REALLY GOOD HARDSHIP PROVISIONS , AND SPEAKING FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE, AND MY OWN NEIGHBORHOOD, I WAS MY HOA PRESIDENT AND WE PUT THESE TYPES OF RESTRICTIONS IN BECAUSE WE WERE SEEING INSTITUTIONAL BUYING IN OUR OWN NEIGHBORHOOD, ONCE YOU GET TO A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE IT DOES LOWER YOUR PROPERTY VALUES, SO I'M TRYING TO FIND A BALANCE BETWEEN PROTECTING THE HOMEOWNERS THAT ARE TO THE NORTH, OR EXCUSE ME, TO THE EAST AND TO THE SOUTH AND WEST OF THE PROPERTY TO MAKE SURE THAT TYPE OF THING DOES NOT HAPPEN AND SINCE CARMEL DOES HAVE A HOUSING ISSUE AS WE ALL KNOW, AS WE HAD, WHAT DID THEY CALL YOU, THE CHAIRPERSON, I DIDN'T KNOW THE TASK FORCE, I SHOULD KNOW THAT, THE GURU OF TASK FORCE FROM THE CITY OF CARMEL, IT IS VERY CLEAR THAT WE ARE IN DESPERATE NEED OF SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL HOMES THAT ARE AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE. AND THAT IS THE CONCERN WE HAVE. SO WITH THAT, WE HIRED AN HLA ATTORNEY WHO IS A PART OF THE CAI WHO ACTUALLY WENT THROUGH THIS PROCESS WITH US BECAUSE WE DIDN'T WANT TO BE DISCRIMINATORY AND WE DIDN'T WANT TO PUSH PEOPLE OUT OF THE MARKET, SO I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, WHY WOULD IT BE TERRIBLE TO PUT A TIMEFRAME ON OWNERSHIP WITH A VERY GOOD HARDSHIP CLAUSE TO PREVENT

[00:25:02]

>> BEFORE YOU ANSWER THAT, COULD WE PEPPER IN A FEW QUESTIONS, IS THAT OKAY WITH YOU? KIND OF ALONG THOSE LINES, JUST TO EMPATHIZE , IF PEOPLE AREN'T FOLLOWING ALONG OR DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND, THE CONCERN IS SOMEBODY IS GOING TO BUY ALL OF THEM AND THAT DOESN'T FEEL FAIR OR EQUITABLE OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE. AS OPPOSED TO ANSWERING THE COUNCILWOMAN'S QUESTION, MY QUESTION IS, HOW DO WE MANAGE THAT PROBLEM? WE HAVE COME UP WITH THIS SOLUTION BUT I WOULD BE VERY CURIOUS AS A PROFESSIONAL, HOW DO WE MANAGE THAT PROBLEM? SO PIGGYBACKING OFF OF THAT.

>> MAYBE WE CAN DO A COMBINED ANSWER --

>> I'M THE ONE WHO ORIGINALLY RAISED THIS ISSUE SO I'M FOLLOWING UP ON WHAT THEY ARE SAYING, WE WANT TO PRESERVE THESE FOR OUR HOME OWNERSHIP, THAT IS WHAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR AND AS THEY'VE SAID, WE DON'T WANT SOMEBODY TO COME IN BY PART OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD OR ALL OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, WE UNDERSTAND THERE'S GOING TO BE HARDSHIP EXCEPTIONS, YOU HAVE TO HAVE FLEXIBILITY, SO WHAT IS YOUR PROPOSED SOLUTION? YOU

KNOW WHAT OUR END GOAL IS. >> I THINK I DO, AND TONY WITH LENNAR HOMES IS HERE TO TALK ABOUT SOME THINGS THAT THE COMPANY CAN WORK WITH VERSUS WHAT I THINK THE QUESTION THAT GOES TO THE HARDWOOD, I WAS TALKING ABOUT, IS WHERE'S THE LINE? BECAUSE WE KNOW WHAT KIND OF COMMUNITY WE WANT TO HAVE, WE KNOW WHAT COMMUNITY WE WANT TO HAVE AND HOW WE PRESERVE THAT AT THE SAME TIME STAYING ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE LAW.

AND THE ANSWER TO THAT IS, I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT LINE IS.

I WISH I KNEW, I WISH I COULD TELL YOU EXACTLY WHAT THAT LINE IS. I KNOW THE MORE THINGS THAT YOU DO, THE LESS LIKELY YOU ARE TO BE FOUND DISCRIMINATORY, AS YOU SAID, A TOTAL BAN THAT IS LIABLE TO BE CHALLENGED. I'M NOT EVEN SURE WE WOULD WIN BUT NOBODY WANTS TO FIGHT IT AND NOBODY WANTS THE ALLEGATIONS, SO IT IS IMPORTANT TO THINK ABOUT, OKAY, HOW DO WE ACCOMPLISH WHAT YOU SAID AS THE STATED PURPOSE WHICH IS FOR OWNER OCCUPIED HOMES AND AT THE SAME TIME, MAKE SURE THAT WE STAY ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE LAW AND WE DID HEAR SOME IDEAS ON THAT. TONY, IF YOU WANT TO SPEAK TO THOSE.

>> GOOD EVENING, LENNAR HOMES, WE ARE IN CARMEL OFF OF 115TH STREET, THIS IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP MORE AND MORE OVER THE LAST YEAR FROM MULTIPLE UNITS OF POLITIES, THERE HAVE BEEN MORE CONVERSATIONS IN THE LAST MONTH, AND MORE THAN I WOULD EVER HOPE TO TALK TO AND IT IS A BALANCING ISSUE AND PART OF THIS STRUGGLE IS NOT NECESSARILY THE HOMEBUILDER, IT IS ALSO MORTGAGE, THIS IS WHERE THE HEART OF THE MATTER IS, WE HAVE A COMMUNITY IN WESTFIELD, OVER 60% OF HOMEBUYERS ARE ON OUR MORTGAGE, AND THE CONCERN IS, IF THERE IS A LAWSUIT OR POTENTIAL DISCRIMINATION, IT IS GOING TO BE POTENTIALLY US AS A BUILDER AND MAYBE THIS IS BUILT INTO IT AND WE DON'T KNOW. SO IF THERE IS THIS GRAY AREA, SO WE UNDERSTAND THE CONCERN OF SOMEBODY CLAIM -- COMING IN AND BUYING THEM FROM US TO DO THAT, AND ALSO FOR PEOPLE THAT DON'T WANT TO BUILD 100% FOR THE Y, W IT TO THE 1% AND HE IS RENTING THEM OFF. IN THIS CASE, WE WOULD BE OPEN TO SAY THAT ANY RENTAL, IT CANNOT BE A CORPORATE INVESTOR, IT HAS TO BE SOMEHOW WORKING WITH OUR LEGAL TEAM TO DEFINE A MOM AND POP, THAT MAYBE NOBODY CAN GET MORE THAN ONE OR TWO AT MOST, BECAUSE WE HAVE SOME PEOPLE BUYING, THEY HAVE OLDER ADULTS THAT ARE MAINTENANCE AND YOUNG PROFESSIONAL WOMEN THAT ARE BUYING AS WELL, THEY TEND TO BE THE MOST POPULAR IN THAT MARKET, AND THEY WILL BUY ONE TO LIVE IN AND THEY WILL HAVE ONE NEXT-DOOR FOR INVESTMENT. THAT HAS BEEN COMMON IN OUR NEIGHBORHOODS. WE WOULD DEFINITELY PUT A LIMIT ON THAT, FROM OUR STANDPOINT THAT IS THE EASIEST WANT TO DEAL WITH BECAUSE WE CAN STILL SELL TO PEOPLE THAT WANT TO USE THE INVESTMENT AND AVOID ANY POTENTIAL DISCRIMINATION. THE STEP TWO MEASURE WOULD BE IF THE CITY PLAN COMMISSION PREFERRED, WE COULD OFFER THE ONE YEAR OWNERSHIP REQUIREMENT BEFORE ANYTHING COULD BE RENTED , BUT WE DO NEED TO BUILD THE HARDSHIP LANGUAGE NOT JUST FOR FINANCIAL REASONS OR SOMEONE

[00:30:01]

THOSE ARE THE GOVERNMENT LOANS THAT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THESE KIND OF RESTRICTIONS BECAUSE IT IS A COVENANTS ON THEM, IF SOMEBODY WENT INTO FORECLOSURE, THEY DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO UNLOAD IT, AND IN SOME CASES THEY ARE GOING AFTER THE BUILDERS TO TAKE THOSE MORTGAGES BACK BECAUSE THEY CANNOT DO THAT WITHOUT THAT RESTRICTION. SO, THERE'S TWO OPTIONS I WOULD LAY OUT, WE ARE OPENED THE FIRST ONE, THE BIGGEST CONCERN IS THE MASS PURCHASE AND THE CORPORATE INVESTOR, IF WE COULD LIMIT THAT FOR SURE, AND THE SECOND ONE WOULD BE THE ONE YEAR PROBATION BEFORE IT IS RENTED.

>> HOW WOULD YOU LIMIT CORPORATE PURCHASERS? HOW WOULD

YOU PROHIBIT THAT? >> IN OTHER AREAS WE TALKED ABOUT, JUST BASICALLY SAYING IT CAN'T BE A CORPORATION NAME, SO IT IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE SOMEBODY LIKE MY NAME, I BOUGHT WANT TO LIVE IN AND I BOUGHT A SECOND ONE NEXT-DOOR, MAYBE WE WOULD LIMIT IT TO THAT, TWO OR THREE AT MOST, THERE IS A MINIMUM OF THREE UNIT BUILDINGS THAT GO UP TO 16, BUT WE HAVE DONE THAT. SOMEONE CANNOT BUY MORE THAN A CERTAIN NUMBER.

>> OKAY, I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION. AND TO JOSH'S POINT, YOU ARE GIVING US SOLUTION SO I APPRECIATE THAT. BUT, WHAT I'M STRUGGLING WITH , NEIGHBORHOODS ARE DOING THIS ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY WHERE THEY ARE PUTTING THESE TYPES OF RENTAL RESTRICTIONS ON THE CCR'S, WITHOUT ANY TROUBLE WITH FHA OR VHA NOT IN THE LANGUAGE. MY QUESTION IS TO YOU, IS THIS FOR A NEW BUILD OR STRICTLY FOR, I GUESS STRICTLY FOR NEW BUILD --

>> THE BIGGER CONCERN IS WITH US AS A NEW BUILDER, ONCE IT IS SWITCHED OVER TO 100% RESIDENTIAL, THE HOMEOWNERS CAN GO IN AND CHANGE THE CCR'S, AND AT THAT POINT, WE ARE REMOVED FROM THE PICTURE, SO WE FEEL , IF THERE IS LITIGATION, HOPEFULLY WE ARE NOT IN THAT BECAUSE WE ARE NOT CONTROLLING THE HOA AND WE ARE NOW THE ONE PURVIEW TO THAT REGULATION COMING AFTER THE FACT. SO OBVIOUSLY WE FEEL LIKE WE ARE MORE OF A TARGET OF BEING SUED OVER THAT AND WE ARE THE SECOND LARGEST IN THE COMPANY, IF SOMEBODY IS GOING TO COME AFTER SOMEBODY WITH A TEST CASE, WE FEEL IT MIGHT BE US, THAT IS OUR CONCERN, IT IS REALLY THE EXPOSURE. WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO RISK IT, THAT IS THE BIGGEST CONCERN.

>> I REALLY WANT OUR LEGAL REPRESENTATIVE TO WEIGH IN ON THIS. YOU MAY TELL US THAT YOU NEED TO LOOK INTO IT AND I CAN ACCEPT THAT AS AN ANSWER BUT, WHAT IS YOUR INSTINCT TELLING

YOU RIGHT NOW? >> IT IS POSSIBLE TO DO THE BAN , BUT AGAIN, IT IS POTENTIALLY SUBJECT TO CHALLENGE. ONE THING THAT IS PAUSING THAT CHALLENGE IS A NECESSITY BY THE COURT THAT IF THERE IS A DESPERATE IMPACT THAT EXISTS, AND WE CAN SHARE THIS FOR LEGITIMATE REASONS, FOR IT WASN'T ACTUALLY A DISCRIMINATORY REASON, WE ALSO HAVE TO SHOW THAT THERE WAS NO OTHER WAY TO ACHIEVE THAT REASON, OF OBTAINING IT ANOTHER WAY. SO I THINK IT IS AN IMPORTANT THING FOR THIS COMMISSION TO CONSIDER THE ALTERNATIVES AS TO WHAT IS AVAILABLE TO ACHIEVE THE GOAL AND ASSESS EACH OF THEM AND IT IS A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS, SO HAVING IDEAS BEING PRESENTED FROM THE DEVELOPER AND ASSESSING THOSE IS AN IMPORTANT FACTOR HERE AND TAKING TIME TO CONSIDER THEM. ONCE YOU HAVE PROPOSALS ON THE TABLE, WE WOULD THEN, AS YOUR LEGAL COUNSEL, THEN ADVISE YOU AS TO WHICH ONES MAY BE THE LEAST

RESTRICTIVE. >> IF YOU DON'T MIND, ONE MORE, BUILDING ON THAT PART, YOU ARE NOT ATTORNEY, YOU DO PLAY ONE IN REAL LIFE AND YOU SET ON THE TASK FORCE, HOW DO YOU READ ALL OF THIS, I'M JUST CURIOUS.

>> SO, FOR THE RECORD, I'M NOT A REAL ESTATE LAWYER, I AM A LAWYER, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE WE CAN GET TO A WORKABLE SOLUTION

[00:35:04]

I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO KIND OF GET THOSE MORE FORMULATED, I'M HEARING YOU SAY YOU HAVE A ONE YEAR BAN ON RENTALS, IS THAT

THE NUMBER? >> IT IS NOT A BAN BUT JUST AN

OBLIGATION, A CONDITION. >> I REALLY WANT TO SEE SOME REALLY GOOD RECOMMENDATIONS AND HAVE THIS TALKED THROUGH WITH LEGAL AND SEE WHAT MAKES SENSE. I THINK WE ALL UNDERSTAND WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO ACHIEVE SO I'M ENCOURAGED BY THIS

CONVERSATION. >> WE WILL DEFINITELY OFFER SOMETHING IN WRITING FOR THE NEXT MEETING BECAUSE WE KNOW WE ARE CONTINUING THIS, AND THIS WILL REQUIRE MORE DISCUSSION TONIGHT AND WE ARE OPEN TO IT, WE DO OFFER EVEN AFTER ONE YEAR IF SOMEBODY DOES WANT TO USE A RENTAL, WE, AS A COMPANY POLICY, WE WOULD IMPLEMENT THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL BAN, WE ARE GOING TO THE SIX MONTH MINIMUM REQUIREMENT TO ADDRESS THESE CONCERNS. WE DO WANT THIS TO BE A NICE LITTLE COMMUNITY, WE HAVE HOA'S THAT DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH CODE ENFORCEMENT, SO WE ARE AWARE OF THESE CONCERNS AND WE ARE TRYING TO ADDRESS

THEM AS WELL. >> I WOULD JUST REQUEST THEN TO MIRROR THE COMMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE, THAT WHEN YOU COME BACK, PRIOR TO COMING BACK YOU WORK WITH COUNSEL, COME UP WITH A LIST OF RECOMMENDATIONS THAT ADDRESSES THE OUTSIDE LENDER CONCERNS THAT YOU MENTIONED, LIMITING, PROHIBITING CORPORATE PURCHASING. AND PUTTING IN RESTRICTIONS FOR HOW LONG SOMEONE HAS TO LIVE IN A HOME BEFORE IT CAN BE LEASED OR THE NUMBER OF UNITS THAT CAN BE PURCHASED BY AN INDIVIDUAL AND I THINK IF WE SEE THAT PROPOSAL COME BACK, KNOWING THAT YOU HAVE BOTH, YOU HAVE ALL -- I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY ATTORNEYS ARE GOING TO BE WORKING ON THIS, BUT THAT YOU HAVE ALL WORKED ON IT, I THINK THAT WOULD BE THE BEST APPROACH TO THIS AND I WILL JUST MERE THE OTHER COMMENTS, I APPRECIATE THE DEPTH IN WHICH YOU HAVE GONE TO ADDRESS THIS.

>> I CAN'T HELP MYSELF, APPARENTLY I'M OUT OF CONTROL, I HAVE HEARD SOME NUMBERS PASSED AROUND, WHETHER IT IS ONE, TWO OR THREE, WITHOUT SPEAKING FOR MY COLLEAGUES, MY SUSPICION IS THE NUMBER IS TWO, THAT WE ARE TRYING TO REEL THIS IN AND THAT LESS IS GOING TO BE MORE FOR US IF YOU KNOW WHAT I

MEAN. >> TWO OWNERSHIP?

>> TWO OWNERSHIP, AND WE WANT LIKE 15 YEAR OWNERSHIP, BUT WE WILL LET YOU FLEDGE ON THAT PART. FOR US, LESS IS MORE , OR MORE IS MORE, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY. I JUST WANTED TO GIVE YOU SOME DIRECTION.

>> SORRY, MADAM CHAIR . ONE LAST THING, I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR THE GOOD FAITH THAT YOU PUT INTO ALL OF THIS AND LISTENING TO OUR CONCERNS AND I WOULD ASK AS WELL, JUST IF THERE'S A PERCENTAGE ON THE NUMBER OF RENTALS THAT COULD BE PUT IN, IF THAT COULD BE PUT IN AS WELL. THAT WAY IT WOULD PUT A FINE LINE IN THE SAND, THE NUMBER OF RENTALS BECAUSE SOME OF THE PROPERTIES TO YOUR POINT, TONY, AND THE LEGACY STRUGGLED WITH THIS TYPE OF PROBLEM AND AS A CITY COUNCILWOMAN, I'M TRYING TO MITIGATE THOSE TYPES OF ISSUES.

I APPRECIATE THAT, VERY MUCH, FOR THE GOOD FAITH, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. I APPRECIATE IT.

>> AND I THINK WE ARE ALL REALLY COMFORTABLE WITH HARDSHIP LANGUAGE, I THINK THAT IS WHERE OUR HEARTS REALLY ARE, SO MATTER -- NO MATTER WHAT SHE')S SAYING, IF WE SAY TWO PROPERTIES IN 15 YEARS AND 10% OR WHATEVER THE NUMBERS MAY BE, WITH THE CAVEAT OF IF IT IS A HARDSHIP CASE, I DON'T KNOW IF

IT IS -- >> I THINK WE ARE VERY COMFORTABLE WITH SOMEBODY SAYING, I UNDERSTAND WE ARE MAXED OUT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD BUT I'M BEING DEPLOYED OR MY MOTHER FELL AND BROKE HER HIP, WHATEVER THE CASE, WE GO ALL THE WAY TO ACCOMMODATE THAT. I JUST WANTED TO EMPHASIZE, THAT

IS WHAT WE ARE HERE FOR. >> I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY SOMETHING BECAUSE I HEARD EARLIER, I WASN'T SURE, ARE WE TALKING ABOUT ALL THE HOMES OR THE TOWNHOMES?

>> IT WOULD APPLY TO ALL OF THEM, BUT I UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERN, IT WOULD HAVE TO GO INTO THE CCR'S.

>> I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY. >> IT WOULD BE THE ENTIRE

[00:40:05]

COVENANTS OF THE HOA. >> I WAS JUST USING THAT AS AN EXAMPLE , JUST AS A SMALL SCALE, AND TO PUT A FINE POINT ON THIS, JOSH IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, THAT IS ALL I HAVE ASKED FOR, TO HAVE REALLY GOOD, TIGHTENED PROHIBITIONS WITH REALLY GOOD HARDSHIP LANGUAGE. AND IF WE CAN FIND THAT HAPPY

MEDIUM I WOULD APPRECIATE IT. >> AND TO BE FAIR, I WANT TO POINT OUT THERE ARE OTHER LENDING COMPANIES, THEY ARE THE ONES THAT DON'T DO A LOT OF DUE DILIGENCE AND LET THAT GO THROUGH, BUT WE HAVE BEEN VERY SENSITIVE TO THAT. WE HAVE BEEN THE MOST RESISTANT, A SET -- IF IT HAS COME UP, I DON'T KNOW.

IT'S BECAUSEOUR ATTORNEYS ARE VERY AWARE OF THESE, AND ANOTHER BUILDER WAS NOT SO LENIENT AND MAYBE GETTING SUED BY THE OTHER GOVERNMENT AGENCIES, SO IT HAS HAPPENED AND IT HAS HAPPENED BY OTHER MARKET COMPANIES AND THEY DON'T EVEN PAY ATTENTION TO IT, IT TYPICALLY DOESN'T BECOME AN ISSUE UNTIL IT DOES. WE DON'T WANT TO BE THE FACE OF THE LAWSUIT OR DEAL WITH IT. THANK YOU.

>> SO, I HAVE A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT QUESTION. JOHN, DO YOU HAVE A PICTURE SHOWING WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE IT AS A JOINED POND, DO YOU HAVE THAT ONE WITH YOU TO SHOW THE DIFFERENCE OF WHAT THE OTHER ACTION WOULD LOOK LIKE AS OPPOSED TO HAVING A SHARED POND, HAVING TWO SEPARATE PONDS? THAT LOOKS LIKE THAT WOULD BE MORE TREE

PRESERVATION. >> NO, IT WOULD BE LESS, THE AREA WHERE THE POND AND THE DRIVE IS A LITTLE BIT CLOSER TO

THE SOUTH PROPERTY LINE. >> THAT IS A LOT MORE OF A BUFFER TOWARD THE SADDLE CREEK SIDE, I'M STILL NOT SOLD ON

THE SHARED POND IDEA. >> I WANT TO WEIGH IN A LITTLE BIT ON THIS. IF I'M READING BETWEEN THE LINES CORRECTLY, ENGINEERING THE APARTMENT DIDN'T WEIGH IN ON IF ONE POND WAS BETTER, BUT WATER QUALITY IS KEY. IF THE CONCERN IN INDIANA WHICH PEOPLE GENERALLY ARE TALKING ABOUT, IT IS WATER QUALITY. IF THE WATER QUALITY IS BETTER, THEN QUITE FRANKLY EDITING IS BETTER. WHAT I ALSO HEARD IS THAT WE CAN SAVE MORE TREES. THERE NEEDS TO BE A GIVE AND TAKE. WATER QUALITY TO ME

TRUMPS THIS CONVERSATION. >> THAT IS A VERY GOOD POINT, I STILL HAVE CONCERNS WITH TWO HOAS, AND GIVEN IT IS TWO PRETTY DENSE NEIGHBORHOODS, IT DOES LOOK BETTER TO KEEP THE TREE LINE SEPARATING THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS. SO, THAT IS JUST SOMETHING I'M CONSIDERING RIGHT NOW BUT THIS ONE LOOKS

GOOD AS WELL AS THE OTHER ONE. >> ONE OF THE OTHER ITEMS WHEN WE TALK ABOUT DEVELOPMENT, THERE IS A CONCERN FOR IT IMPACTING THESE SCENARIOS AND THERE'S GOING TO BE AN IMPACT ON THE DEVELOPMENT OF THIS SITE BUT THE IMPACT IS GOING TO BE POSITIVE. IF YOU LOOK AT THE PLAN TODAY, YOU CAN SEE THAT LITTLE TOOTH, I CALL IT A TOOTH, STORM WATER DIRECTLY DISCHARGES OFF THE SITE TODAY INTO THE POND THAT IS IN SADDLE CREEK AND WITH THE CONSTRUCTION ON THE SITE, THAT WILL NO LONGER OCCUR. WE WILL COLLECT THE STORM WATER ON OUR SITE AND TRANSMIT THAT INTO THE POND AND IT'LL BE TREATED FROM A WATER QUALITY STANDPOINT BEFORE IT GETS TO SADDLE CREEK SO TODAY, THE WATER THAT COMES OFF THIS PROPERTY WHICH IS TYPICALLY IN THE FALL, SOME RESIDUE FROM THE AGRICULTURAL ACTIVITY ON THE SITE ENTERS THE PONDS ON THE DAILY. THERE'S NO TREATMENT OF THAT STORM WATER BEFORE IT GETS TO THAT POINT SO, DISCONNECTING THE WATER THAT COMES OFF THIS SITE INTO THAT LOCATION AND MOVING IT INTO THE POND, THAT IS RIGHT HERE TO THE EAST IS GOING TO HAVE A TREMENDOUS EFFECT ON THE QUALITY WITHIN THE PONDS WITHIN SADDLE CREEK AND THAT IS GOING TO BE A TREMENDOUS POSITIVE IMPACT ON THAT FROM WHAT EXISTS TODAY.

>> AND ONE MORE TIME, REMIND ME AGAIN, DIDN'T THE COUNTY HAS

INTEREST IN ONE POND? >> SIMILAR TO THE CARMEL

[00:45:03]

THE DISCUSSION. >> OKAY, WE ARE MOVING ON FOR JUST ONE MOMENT AND I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS, FIRST OF ALL, I REALLY LIKE WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE, ESPECIALLY, EVEN THOUGH I WAS SOLD ON THE COMMERCIAL MODE, I REALLY LIKED IT, I UNDERSTAND WE NEED HOUSES, SO MY QUESTION FOR YOU IS, HOW MANY RANCH HOUSES WILL BE IN THAT NEW PORTION WHERE THE

COMMERCIAL SPACE WAS? >> THE TAN ONES.

>> WHAT IS THE NUMBER OF THE TAN? THERE IS 12, SO THEY WOULD PROBABLY BE THREE OR FOUR RANCHES BUT THE TWO STORIES AS WELL HAVE OPTIONS THAT ARE FIRST FLOOR MASTERS. BUT EVERYTHING IS A FIRST-FLOOR MASTER AND THERE'S ALSO A RANCH, BUT THE TWO STORY THAT I SHOWED YOU ON THE SCREEN, THAT FORWARD SPACE TYPICALLY IS THE BEDROOM SUITE, HERE'S THAT MASTER BEDROOM AND YOU WALK BACK TO THE LIVING AREA, THAT

IS OFF THE BACK OF THE HOME. >> OKAY, SO A FOLLOW-UP TO THAT, I DID SPEAK TO SEVERAL COUNCILMEMBERS, TALKING ABOUT THIS PROJECT AND THE CONCERN WAS, ARE WE BUILDING FOR PEOPLE TO MOVE IN OR ARE WE TRYING FOR EVERYBODY? SO THE RANCH HOUSES ARE SUCH A WELCOMED ADDITION, WE NEED DOWNSIZING FOR PEOPLE LIKE MYSELF TO MOVE THE CHURN, TO USE THE TERM THAT WAS USED IN THE TASK FORCE SO I KNOW THE MORE RANCHES AND FIRST-FLOOR LIVING THAT YOU HAVE IS MUCH MORE PALATABLE.

>> THE MARKET IS GOING TO TELL US. YOUR ABILITY TO MESSAGE ON YOUR BEHALF, OR THE CITY'S BEHALF ARE FAR SUPERIOR TO OUR ABILITY TO MESSAGE TO THE PUBLIC IN THIS SPACE, IN THIS CARMEL SPACE, SO IF THIS IS APPROVED BY THE COUNCIL AND MOVED FORWARD IN CONSTRUCTION, YOU MAY WANT TO TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY OR THE COUNCIL MAY WANT TO MESSAGE THOSE FOLKS THEY HAVE HEARD FROM THOSE POTENTIAL BUYERS, IF THEY NEED TO GET ON THE VIP LIST AND GET THEIR FOOT IN THE DOOR BEFORE POTENTIAL OTHERS BECAUSE WE CAN'T JUST SAY YOU CAN ONLY BUY IF YOU HAVE FOUR 603 OR 322 Z.I.P. CODE ON THE PRODUCT SO AS MUTE -- AS WE MOVE FORWARD, IT IS A YEAR AND A HALF BEFORE THE FIRST HOUSE IS OCCUPIED SO THERE'S TIME TO GET THAT MESSAGING AND GET PEOPLE ENGAGED AND THE KNOWLEDGE THAT

THE OPPORTUNITY EXISTS. >> SELFISHLY I WOULD LIKE TO SAY FOR MYSELF, I WISH THERE WERE SOME LOTTERY OR VIP LIST THAT I COULD PUT MY NAME IN TO BUY ONE OF THOSE RANCH HOUSES, UNFORTUNATELY IT IS NOT IN MY DISTRICT.

>> AND LENNAR CAN SET THAT UP, THEY CAN SET UP ADVANCED SALES, I'M SURE THERE'S NOT A PROHIBITION ON THEIR SIDE ABOUT GETTING PEOPLE SIGNED UP AHEAD OF TIME.

>> CAN WE REDIRECT THIS CONVERSATION BACK TO REALITY FOR A SECOND? SORRY, SORRY, SORRY. NEXT THING YOU KNOW THEY ARE PICKING OUT CURTAINS. WITH THE EXCHANGE IF YOU WILL, I CAN'T HELP BUT BE CURIOUS ABOUT THE ORIENTATION OF THE

FRONT DOOR. >> IT IS ALWAYS TOWARDS THE STREET SO THIS IS THE FRONT, THE TYPICAL FRONT DWELLING. ON THE MAP, IT IS ALL THESE HOMES THAT FACE THE FRONTAGE ROAD, SO THAT WILL BE, THIS WILL BE THE VIEW OF ALL THE DWELLINGS, THE FRONT DOOR FACES. AND THE GARAGES ARE EXCLUSIVELY TO THE ALLEY OR AWAY FROM THAT FRONTAGE.

>> OKAY, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I SEE THIS CORRECTLY.

>> SO THE GARAGES ARE ALREADY HERE.

>> OKAY, GREAT, PERFECT. THANK YOU. THAT WAS EASY, NOT THAT

ONE OFF THE LIST. >> JOHN, ONE OF THE OTHER ITEMS FOR DISCUSSION WAS SIDEWALK AND P.A.T.H. CONNECTIONS, HAS ANYTHING CHANGED IN THIS NEW DESIGN?

>> IT HAS A COUPLE OF THE ITEMS THAT STAFF REQUESTED TO BE ADDED TO THE PLAN, THAT BEING THE EXTENSION OF THE WALK TO MAKE SURE IT CONNECTS FROM THOSE TWO POINTS, IT WAS INADVERTENT THAT IT WASN'T SHOWN ON THE PLAN BECAUSE THEY

[00:50:03]

>> I JUST WANT TO CONFIRM, YOU DO HAVE AUTOMOBILE CONNECTIVITY, OFF OF SADDLE CREEK, OFF OF TOWNE ROAD --

>> NO, WE ARE NOT CONNECTED, ONE CAN DRIVE BUT BY ONLY GETTING ON THE FRONTAGE ROAD AND THERE'S NO INTERNAL VEHICULAR CONNECTION TO SADDLE CREEK, ONE WOULD HAVE TO DRIVE AN EXIT ON TOWNE ROAD AND GO SOUTH AND EXIT ONTO SADDLE CREEK. OR GO TO THE EAST AND GO SOUTH TO SADDLE CREEK FROM THAT POINT, BUT VEHICULAR POINTS OF ACCESS HERE, ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR POINTS OF ACCESS ON THE FRONTAGE ROAD.

>> OKAY, I JUST WANTED TO CONFIRM THAT, THANK YOU.

>> I WANTED TO MENTION SOMETHING WHILE WE ARE ON THAT TOPIC, LOOKING AT THIS, WE WERE WONDERING IF THAT GREEN PATH BE CONNECTED ALL THE WAY TO THE WEST, MAYBE ALONG THE NORTH OR SOUTH SIDE BUT THAT WAS A COMMON AREA OF TRANSPORTATION THAT THE SYSTEMS COORDINATOR HAD MENTIONED SO THAT YOU'RE NOT GOING DOWN THE PATH AND THE SIDEWALK, YOU WANT TO GET TO DOWNTOWN, THERE IS A WAY TO GET THERE FROM THE PATH ON THE

EAST. >> TONY JUST STEPPED UP AND SAID WHERE IT IS IDENTIFIED IS A BLUE SIDEWALK ALONG THE SOUTH PERIMETER HERE, WE WILL MODIFY THAT AND IT'LL BE THE SAME WIDTH AS THE PATH. WE MAY ELECT TO DO IT IN CONCRETE RATHER THAN ASPHALT BECAUSE IT FEELS BETTER WHEN IT IS ALONG SOMEBODY'S HOUSE. IT IS JUST NOT AS CLEAN OF A LOOK.

>> I AGREE, THE BOARDWALK, I SAW THE IMAGE THAT YOU PUT UP.

THERE IS A REASON WHY THE PARKS DID BOARDWALK'S DIFFERENT BECAUSE THEY ARE MORE AESTHETIC, NICER AND PROBABLY EASIER TO MAINTAIN, SO IT WOULD BE GREAT IF YOU CAN LOOK AT THE PARKS SYSTEM HAS DONE WITH THEIR BOARDWALKS IN CENTRAL PARK. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE RULES REALLY ARE BUT, I KNOW

THEY FOLLOW THE RULES. >> AS AN EXAMPLE TO FOLLOW AND WE WILL REACH OUT TO THE PARKS DEPARTMENT AND LOOK TO SEE IF THEY COULD PROVIDE US THOSE SPECIFICATIONS.

>> I WOULD APPRECIATE THAT, IT LOOKS CLEANER AND IT FALLS UNDER THE UMBRELLA OF SAFETY, IT IS EASIER TO MAINTAIN AS

WELL. >> ONE LAST QUESTION, AGAIN, HOW MANY TOWNHOUSES DID YOU REMOVE FROM THE TOTAL PROJECT?

>> WE WENT DOWN TO 58, AND THERE MAY HAVE BEEN 59 OR 60

TOWNHOMES. 60 DOWN TO 58. >> THANK YOU.

>> ANYBODY ELSE ON THE COMMITTEE? OKAY, DO WE ALL AGREE WE WILL MOVE THIS FORWARD TO THE THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 7TH COMMITTEE MEETING? THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. >> I WILL GO AHEAD AND MOVE US

[2. Docket No. PZ-2024-00099 DP/ADLS: Spring Mill Shops]

[00:55:08]

FOR BEING HERE. >> THANK YOU , WE ARE HERE WITH OUR UPDATES TO THE PRESENTATION YOU JUST SAW LAST MONTH, JUST TO ORIENT YOURSELF, WE GOT THREE BUILDINGS AT THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF 116TH AND SPRING MILL JUST SOUTH OF THE JACKSON'S GRANT SUBDIVISION, THE NORTH BUILDING IN SOUTH BUILDING ARE BOTH ROUGHLY 4900 SQUARE FEET AND THE MIDDLE BUILDING IS ALSO ROUGHLY 4900 SQUARE FEET. A AND C ARE MIRROR IMAGES AND THE MIDDLE BUILDING IS A DIFFERENT DESIGN. WE GOT FEEDBACK FROM STAFF ON THE ELEVATIONS, I BROUGHT ALONG EXAMPLES, YOU HAVE THE UPDATED DRAWINGS ON THOSE AS WELL. THIS IS THE ORIGINAL, BUILDING A DESIGN. WHAT WE HAD IS A [INDISCERNIBLE] THE LIFE OF THE BUILDING, WE HAVE THE REVISED DESIGN, WE HAVE BROKEN UP THAT MASSIVE BUILDING TO ORIENT TWO DIFFERENT GROUPS, ONE HEADING SOUTH AND THE OTHER ONE HITTING EAST AND WEST, ALONG WITH THE FLATTER PORTIONS TO HELP IDENTIFY SOME VERTICAL ELEMENTS TO HELP THAT. I KNOW THERE WAS A COMMENT ABOUT TRYING TO BREAK UP THE BUILDINGS TO FEEL A LITTLE BIT MORE VERTICALLY ORIENTED, SO WE HAVE DONE THAT ON THIS BUILDING. WE'VE GOT THIS MASS HERE ON THE END AND THIS ON THE END, SO THIS BUILDING IS THE SAME AS A AND C, JUST MIRROR IMAGE AND DIFFERENT BUILDING MATERIALS, BUILDING B IS VERY SIMILAR , IN TERMS OF THE MASS BUILDING, WE HAVE PLAYED WITH THE ELEMENT OF THE FOUR PLAN -- FLOORPLAN, PULLING THESE ELEMENTS OUT TO GIVE IT A LITTLE MORE DEPTH, OTHER THAN THAT, VISUALLY THEY LOOK SIMILAR. WE CONTINUE TO WORK WITH STAFF ON THEIR COMMENTS, AND WE ARE INTERESTED IN GETTING FEEDBACK FROM THE COMMITTEE ON ANY UPDATES TO ANY ADDITIONAL FEEDBACK YOU GUYS HAVE.

>> THANK YOU. I WILL LOOK AT STAFF AND LOOK FOR YOUR REPORT.

>> THANK YOU. SEAN, IF YOU COULD LEAVE UP THE DRAWINGS I THINK THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR ALL OF US. YES, SO I TRY TO POINT OUT IN THE DEPARTMENT REPORT, THE MAIN CHANGE WAS THE SHORTENING OF THE GABLED ROOF FROM ACROSS THE ENTIRE BUILDING TO JUST A PORTION OF THE BUILDING AND

>> IT LOOKED LIKE YOU CHANGED THE CENTER COLUMNS.

>> WE EXTENDED AND MOVED THE HORIZONTAL SLATS OUTHORIZONTAL WE CHANGED TO THE MORE SOLID LARGER MASS OF MASS. AND IT WASN'T REALLY A UNIFYING ELEMENT ANYMORE AND EXTENDED THAT UP TO HELP PROVIDE THAT VERTICAL MASS AND TO YOUR POINT, WE DID SHORTEN THE GABLE ROM THE ENTIRE LENGTH, WE INTRODUCED THIS GABLE WHICH DID

NOT INCH -- EXIST PREVIOUSLY. >> AND ANOTHER BIG CHANGE THEY DID WAS ON THE BACKSIDE OF THE BUILDING FACING SPRING MILL, THOSE ARE NOW DOUBLE DOORS, WHEN PREVIOUSLY IT WAS JUST ONE SINGLE DOOR. AND HE ALSO MENTIONED THE LARGER AWNING ELEMENT OVER ALL OF THE WINDOWS, THAT WAS ANOTHER

[01:00:03]

>> AND THE CHANGES WITH THE COMMITMENTS TO THE PHOTOGRAPHS,

THAT WAS THE REACTION TO THAT. >> OKAY, THOSE ARE THE MAIN CHANGES AND I OUTLINED THOSE FOR THE DEPARTMENT REPORT AND DID A SIDE-BY-SIDE FOR YOU ON WHAT THEY WOULD LOOK LIKE BEFORE VERSUS NOW , I THINK THIS IS A GOOD STEP BUT I THINK WE NEED TO KNOW, THE BUILT OVERTIME LOOK, THE MORE INDIVIDUALISTIC LOOK FOR EACH OF THE TENANTS. I KEEP GOING BACK TO THE CHARACTER IMAGES AND I SEE MORE SYMMETRY AND I SEE DISTINCT SECTIONS OF BUILDINGS THAT WE DON'T REALLY HAVE HERE, I THINK WE ARE REALLY CHOPPING IT UP WITH TRYING TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE IT WAS DONE LIKE THEY ARE SEPARATE BUT THEY STILL DON'T RELATE TO WHAT IS UNDERNEATH THE ROOF, OR THE GABLE ROOF.

>> THAT WILL LOOK COMPLETE TO ME AND LOOKS HALF EMPTY OR GONE.

I DON'T KNOW, IT DOESN'T GIVE ME THAT COMPLETE LOOK.

SO YOU ARE NOT -- I WAS GOING TO SAY YOU ARE NOT TURNED ON.

BUT BASICALLY, WE HAVE MORE WORK TO DO TO GET TO THAT POINT.

I DON'T THINK WE ARE THERE YET. I DON'T THINK THIS MATCHES TO THE CHARACTER THAT WE THOUGHT WE WOULD BE GETTING WITH THE IMAGES THAT WE SAW. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THE LEVEL OF DESIGN THAT THE -- THAT THE CURRENT TOWN HOMES THAT ARE ARE BEING BUILT TO. NOT SUPPORTING AND NOT READY TO

SUPPORT. >> OKAY.

IF YOU WERE DONE, STAFF, I WILL NOW OPEN IT UP TO MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS. COMMENTS, CONCERNS?

THINGS TO ADDRESS. >> I JUST THINK IT LOOKS ODD.

I REALIZE I AM LOOKING AT A DRAWING BUT IT LOOKS LIKE PART OF THE ROOF BLEW AWAY. I THINK THAT LOOKS JUST I REALLY

ODD. >> I THINK -- OBVIOUSLY IN TWO DIMENSIONS IT IS DIFFERENT THAN LOOKING AT THE VIEWS.

WE INCLUDED THE VIEWS IN THE PRESENTATION.

SO HOPEFULLY THAT MAKES IT A LITTLE EASIER TO UNDERSTAND IN THREE DIMENSIONS. TO SOME EXTENT, WE ARE TRYING NOT TO CREATE INDIVIDUAL -- THIS IS A TENANT.

THIS A TENANT. BECAUSE WHICH DON'T KNOW WHAT THE TENANT MIX IS GOING TO BE. WE CAN HAVE A TENANT THAT TAKES BOTH OF THESE. IF WE HAVE THAT TO THAT OVER-TIME LOOK. HOW DOES THE SIGN GO.

HOW DO WE HAVE A BUILDING WHEN THERE ARE THREE BAYS WIDE AND THE DOOR ON ONE END. DOES THEIR DOOR GO OVER THE DOOR. AND THEY ARE RESTRICTED WHAT SIGNAGE WHEN THEY COULD HAVE SIGNAGE OVER THE WIDTH OF THEIR SPACE. HOW THIS BUILDING WILL EVOLVE, THE SECOND GENERATION TEN TENANT OR THIRD-GENERATION TEN CONTINUE AT TENANTS. AND WE ARE TRYING TO BE SENSITIVE, COMPLEMENTARY TO THE RESIDENTIAL TO THE NORTH WITHOUT BEING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM IT AS WELL.

>> THEN I WOULD ENCOURAGE TO WORK WITH STAFF ON COMING UP WITH SOMETHING THAT ON PAPER IS A -- AESTHETICALLY MORE PLEASING THAN WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE FOR ME. WITH CAVITY YACHT -- I REALIZE WE ARE LOOKING AT THE RENDERING AND IT LOOKS ODD TO ME.

THANK YOU. >> I CAN ADD ONE THING JUST IN REGARD TO THE SIGNAGE COMMENT. I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THAT.

BUT TENANTS ARE ALLOWED ONE SIGN.

AND THE MAIN LIMITING FACTOR IS GOING TO BE THE HEIGHT.

[01:05:02]

AND WE DON'T -- WE WOULD RATHER MAKE THE BUILDING LOOK RIGHT THAN WORRY OF THE TENANT SPACES BEING SO BROKEN UP AS FAR AS VIEWS THAT MAY NOT BE TRADITIONALLY WHAT THE TENANTS WANT, BUT WE WANT TO DESIGN FOR THE BUILDING ITSELF AND NOT JUST CONSTANTLY WORRYING ABOUT BREAKING IT UP AND MAKING IT AS SMALL AS POSSIBLE FOR EACH TENANT.

>> WAS THERE A SPECIFIC REASON WHY YOU CHANGE THE ROOF LINE? I MISSED THE LAST MEETINGS. I WATCHED THE VIDEO, BUT I DON'T

RECALL THERE BEING A REASON. >> IT WAS TO TRY TO BE SENSITIVE TO THE -- TO IT THE CHARACTER EXHIBITS, TO BREAK UP THAT YOU VERTICAL MASS OF THE BUILDING -- OF THOSE -- OF THE NORTH AND

SOUTH BUILDINGS. >> THANK YOU.

>> GO AHEAD. >> ARE THESE -- THESE ARE RENDERINGS. ARE THESE COLORS THAT WILL BE GRAY, WHITE AND BEIGE? I MEAN, THAT IS YOUR RENDERING

BUT I FORGET. >> THEY ARE --

>> THEY ARE NEUTRAL LIKE THAT? >> MORE NEUTRAL IN COLORS.

I HAVE SAMPLES OF THE MATERIALS IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE THEM.

>> HANDY? YEAH.

ARE THEY IT GOING TO CONTINUE WITH THOSE COLORS?

>> THEY COULD. I THINK WE SHOULD STILL SEE MORE

BRICK IN THE DESIGN. >> THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I WAS THINKING. THAT IS WHY I DIDN'T KNOW.

IF THESE WOULD CHANGE FOR ANY REASON.

>> THE BRICK ON THIS BUILDING IS GOING TO BE MORE.

>> THESE ARE THE TWO BRICKS THAT ARE ON THE BUILDING -- BOTH BUILDINGS. SO -- THE MAJORITY OF THE BUILDING IS BRICK. IT IS JUST A -- A WHITE AND

CREAM COLOR. >> I THINK THAT COMPLEMENTS THE BUILDINGS TO THE NORTH. THE HOMES THAT THEY BUILT.

BUT THERE IS THAT OTHER COLOR THAT LOOKS -- I AM CALLING IT BEIGE, LIKE RIGHT BELOW THE NAME OF THE STORES, LIKE BOOKS AND

MORE. >> THAT'S -- THAT IS AN ACCENT

METAL MATERIAL. >> OKAY.

>> WILL IT BE DIFFERENT METALS OR ONE COLOR?

>> ON EACH BUILDING, IT'S -- THERE IS A DIFFERENT COMBINATION OF MATERIALS. SO THE -- SO, FOR EXAMPLE, THE -- THERE IS -- WITH -- WITH THE IRON SPOT BRICK IS MORE OF THE GRAY COLORS. WITH THE BUILDING THAT IS THE WHITER BRICK, IT IS MORE OF THE -- OF THE TAN, BEIGE COLOR TO

COMPLEMENT. >> EACH BUILDING -- SAY THERE ARE FIVE. AREN'T GOING TO HAVE DIFFERENT METAL COLORS ON THEM. ALL THE SAME -- I AM ASKING.

>> SO FAR -- THIS MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT EASIER TO SEE.

THIS BUILDING WILL NOT HAVE THE SAME BUILDING AS THAT COLOR FOR THE COPING ON THE BUILDING, FOR EXAMPLE.

BECAUSE THE COMBINATION OF MATERIALS ARE DIFFERENT.

>> IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE STRUGGLING WITH A BIT?

>> NO, THE COLORS ARE NOT AS OF MUCH OF A CONCERN TO ME.

IT'S -- I MEAN, THIS JUST KIND OF SHOW IT IS PRETTY WELL.

LIKE THAT BACK BUILDING YOU JUST HAVE A ROOF FLOATING IN THE MID MIDDLE OF THE BUILDING. I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU WERE TRYING TO BREAK IT DOWN BY THE IMAGES, BUT I DON'T THINK WE GOT ALL THE WAY THERE YET.

>>. >> THANK YOU.

>> SO DO YOU HAVE -- THE MIDDLE BUILDING.

DO YOU HAVE A CLOSE-UP PICTURE -- I KNOW WE ARE FOCUSING ON THE TWO END ONES. DO YOU HAVE A BETTER PICTURE OF

THE ONE IN THE MIDDLE? >> SO THIS IS THE CORNER OF THE MIDDLE BUILDING AND THE SOUTH BUILDING.

THAT IS LOOKING TO THE NORTHEAST THIS IS LOCKING SOUTHEAST.

THE FAR BUILDING AND THE MIDDLE BUILDING.

>> SIMILAR DESIGN. BUT JUST A DIFFERENT CO

[01:10:03]

COLOR PALETTE? >> YES.

WE TRY TO MAKE ALL THE BUILDINGS THE SAME COLOR-WISE.

>> MY TURN NOW? I HAVE BEEN TRYING REALLY HARD TO FINE A CHARACTER IMAGE OR A INTERSECTION THAT I THOUGHT I

HEARD PRESIDENT GRABO ADDRESS. >> 56TH AND ILLINOIS.

49TH AND PEN AND 56TH AND ILLINOIS?

>> I DIDN'T LOOK AT ANY OF THOSE PLACES.

THEN I ENDED UP ON BROAD RIPPLE AVENUE AND I SAID THAT IS NOT EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT. THERE IS OLDER ARCHITECTURE ON BROAD RIPPLE AVENUE THAT I THOUGHT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT.

I JUST I RESPECT THE STAFF WHO OBVIOUSLY WORKED ON THIS I DON'T KNOW ANY OF THIS IS REALLY WHAT WE HAVE BEEN ASKING FOR.

SO I THINK WE -- I DON'T KNOW IF WE NEED TO THROW ALL THIS OUT, BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE ARE STEERING IN THE DIRECTION WHERE WE ORIGINALLY WERE AND NOT GETTING TOO FAR AWAY FROM THAT.

I KNOW IF BRAD WAS HERE, WE BE MUCH MORE ELOQUENT ABOUT THIS BUT THAT IS WHAT MY GUT TELLING ME.

I GUESS WHEN I PICTURED THIS, ALTHOUGH THIS IS VERY CLEAN, I THINK WE WERE LOOKING FOR SOMETHING DARE I SAY MAYBE TIMELESS OR -- I AM NOT AN ARCHITECT AND I KNOW KIND OF WHAT I THINK THE DIRECTION WE WERE KIND OF GOING.

MAYBE WE CAN REVIEW THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE AND SEE HOW WE CAN ADAPT SOME OF THOSE PRINCIPLES INTO THIS.

I DON'T LOVE A GABLE ROOF ACROSS THE TOP OR DON'T EXACTLY LOVE IT HALFWAY ACROSS THE TOP. I AM NOT GIVING YOU AN ANSWER.

I AM TELLING YOU I DON'T THINK WE ARE QUITE WHERE WE WANTED TO

BE. >> WHAT WAS THE INITIAL RENDERING WHEN THIS CAME THROUGH IN THE BEGINNING?

DO WE HAVE -- >> IN THE P.U.D.?

>> YEAH. I CAN PULL THOSE UP.

>> SIMILAR TO WHAT BRAD WAS TALKING ABOUT.

>> IF I AM READING THE CROWD. WE ARE PUNTING AND SEE YOU BACK HERE -- WHAT IS THE DATE, NOVEMBER 19? NO, THAT CAN'T BE RIGHT. THURSDAY NOVEMBER 7TH.

WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE YOU BACK HERE.

CONTINUE TO WORK WITH STAFF. APPRECIATE YOUR PATIENCE AND WILLINGNESS TO WORK WITH US. THANK YOU.

[Item 3 - Item 5]

>> NEXT, I WILL READ IN -- LOOKS LIKE I WILL READ IN THREE DOCKETS. IS THAT OKAY, COUNSEL? HE IS NOT HERE. SO HE DOESN'T GET TO TELL ME NOT TOO. DOCKET -- LET'S DO THIS BEFORE HE GETS BACK. DOCKET PZ 2024-00122,CA MERIDIAN TRAILS COMMITMENT AMENDMENT. NUMBER 4, DOCKET PZ 2024-00123 THE MERIDIAN TRAILS HEIGHT VARIANCE.

AND NUMBER 5, DOCKET NUMBER PZ 2024-00130-V, MERIDIAN TRAILS PARKING VARIANCE AND APPLICANT SEEKS APPROVAL FOR COMMITMENT AMOUNTS AND TWO VARIANCES FOR A 55-PLUS AGE RESTRICTED HOUSING.

SITE LOCATED 201 WEST 106TH STREET.

FILED BY JIM SHIMBERG ON BEHALF OF STEVE PITTMAN AND JUSTICE COMPANIES. MR. DABSHAWITZ.

A LONG TIME. NICE TO HAVE YOU BACK.

WE WILL LET YOU BRING US UP TO DATE AND THEN WE WILL HEAR FROM

STAFF. >> ABSENCE MAKES HEART GO FONDER. THANK YOU, AND AGAIN FOR THE RECORD JOHN IT,ABESHAWITZ AND REPRESENT THE PETITIONER JUSTICE COMPANIES AND MR. STEVE PITTMAN. MR. PITTMAN WAS IN THE AUDIENCE.

HE MAY HAVE STEPPED OUT AND SO DID WALT JUSTICE AND HE MAY BE OUT THERE. OH, HE IS ON HIS WAY BACK.

I WILL CONTINUE AND HE IS ON HIS WAY INTO THE ROOM.

SO THE STAFF REPORT WAS RATHER CLEAN ON THIS ONE.

STAFF IS RECOMMENDING THAT THE MATTER BE FORWARDED BACK TO THE FULL PLAN COMMISSION WITH A COUPLE OF ADJUSTMENTS.

I WILL REVIEW THE ADJUSTMENTS MOMENTARILY.

AND A FEW QUESTIONS THAT THE PLANNING HAD AT YOUR LAST MEETING. AND IF JIM WILL HAND THEM OUT.

[01:15:02]

THIS TABBED OUT AND HOPEFULLY MAKING US USE EFFICIENT USE OF WHY YOUR TIME. YOU WILL SEE THE IT TABLE OF CONTENTS ALL THE DIFFERENT INFORMATION THAT WE HAVE.

BUT JUST TO START, THE SITE IS LOCATED AT THE SOUTHWEST QUADRANT OF ILLINOIS STREET AND 106TH STREET.

THE HART HOSPITAL IS TO OUR EAST AND I MAY SAY IS IT WRONG.

ROSATO HILL IS A NEIGHBORHOOD WIH THREE HOMES TO OUR WEST AND THE RESERVE AT SPRING MILL IS TO THE SOUTH.

THE AREA IN LIGHT COLOR HERE IN THIS SECTION IS A SECTION THAT MR. PITTMAN REDEVELOPED. SIX ADDITIONAL OR SEVEN ADDITIONAL LOTS THERE AND HOMES BEING CONSTRUCTED ON THEM TODAY AND THE AERIAL IS IT CONTINUING TO FILL OUT.

THIS IS THE SITE PLAN AND TO ORIENT THEMSELVES TO IT THE WEST, THE THREE LOT SUBDIVISION TO THE SOUTH.

TO THE TO THE EAST HERE IS ILLINOIS STREET.

THE LONG NARROW BUILDINGS THAT YOU SEE, THE FOUR OF THESE, TWO ON THE WEST SIDE AND TWO ON THE SOUTH ARE GARAGES.

THEY HAVE EIGHT BAYS EACH IN EACH GARAGE.

THOSE ARE SINGLE STORY WITH A PITCHED ROOF AND THEY ARE OUTSIDE OF THE TREE PRESERVATION AREA THAT WAS PRESCRIBED UNDER THE ORIGINAL COMMITMENTS AND THE TREE PRESERVATION AREA WILL BE REMAINING AS EXISTING. ACCESS TO THE PROPERTY A DRIVEWAY ACCESS OFF OF ILLINOIS STREET AND A SECOND DRIVEWAY CUT HERE OFF OF 106TH. THIS ILLUSTRATES THE BUILDING ARCHITECTURE. STAFF HAD ASKED FOR AND WE PROVIDED NOTES HERE ON THE -- ON WHAT WOULD BE THE PROPOSED BUILDING MATERIALS. BUT THAT WILL COME BACK TO THE AS AND REVIEWED AT THAT TIME. THE NEXT ITEM WITH REGARD TO THE INTENSITY OF THE USE AND THE DEVELOPMENT ON THE REAL ESTATE.

UNDER THE ORIGINAL PLAN THAT WAS APPROVED IN 2018, IT WAS FOR OFFICE DEVELOPMENT OF 8 ,000 SQUARE FEET AND THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT WOULD BE HERE WITH 169 APARTMENT UNITS.

THE REDUCTION IN TRAFFIC IS SIGNIFICANT.

THE HOURS ANTICIPATED TO BE 110 VEHICLES FEWER.

AND THE P.M. PEAK HOURS ANTICIPATED TO BE JUST AT 100 FEWER TRIPS. AND THAT IS BOTH IN AND EXIT OUT OF THE SITE THAN ORIGINALLY PROPOSED AND WE WANTED TO PROVIDE THAT INFORMATION TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND IF ENGINEERING HAD PREPARED THAT TO SUPPORT THE INFORMATION THAT WE HAD ORIGINALLY PROPOSED TO YOU WHICH WAS THE INTENSITY OF THE USE FROM THE TRAFFIC STANDPOINT. NEXT IS WITH REGARD TO TRAFFIC.

AS THE PLAN COMMISSION WILL RECALL, WE ARE ASKING FOR A VARIANCE OF 340 REQUIRED PARKING SPACES DOWN TO 232.

THE JUSTIFICATION OF THAT REQUEST WAS MADE AT YOUR LAST MEETING. WE PROVIDED UNDER TAB 6, IF YOU LOOK UNDER TAB 6, THERE IS A JUSTIFICATION INVOLVING SPACE EFFICIENCY AND INCREASE IN GREEN SPACE AND ENVIRONMENTAL BENEFITS. AND A COMPARISON WITH REGARD TO HIGHER PARKING RATIO. THE SECOND PAGE OF THAT WALKS THROUGH THE INVESTIGATION THAT JUSTICE DID WHERE RATIOS ARE OFTEN BETWEEN.75 AND 172 SPACES PER URBAN SETTING AND FALL AT A RANGE OF 1 AND 1.3 SPACES PER UNIT SIM HARE TO WHAT WE HAVE HERE. THAT 1.3 COINCIDES WITH THE NUMBER OF SPACES CONTRIBUTED TO THE RESIDENTIAL PIECE.

THE COMMERCIAL PIECE, AND WE HAVE 232 SPACES.

AND WOULD BE ABOUT 1.3 PARKING SPACES PER DWELLING FOR THIS A AIR.

AND KEY FINDINGS PRESENTED HERE AND RATIO.

THE LAST PAGE OF SIX, YOU LOOK AT JUSTICE'S EXPERIENCE.

THE TEXT IN BLUE. THE JUSTICE'S ADULT SENIOR COMMUNITY PARKING RATIOS. TWO COMMUNITIES IN MINNEAPOLIS, CRESTWOOD VILLAGE THE CW-N AND CW-S IS CRESTWOOD VILLAGE SOUTH. YOU CAN SEE HERE THAT THE PARKING RATIO IS 1.1 SPACES PER DWELLING UNITS AND 1.3 SPACES

[01:20:04]

WISE, A COMMUNITY IN CONSTRUCTION IN NOBLESVILLE AT HAZELWOOD THAT ARE CONSTRUCTING A SIMILAR FORMAT OF SENIOR LIVING. AND ACTUALLY PROVIDE WILLING 1.0 PARKING SPACES THAT FALLS IN LINE WITH THE CRESTWOOD NORTH COMMUNITY THAT IS DOWN IN INDIANAPOLIS.

SO THEY HAVE A LOT OF EXPERIENCE IN THIS, AND THEY WANTED TO PROVIDE YOU, AGAIN, CITING ALL THESE SOURCES ON THE LAST PAGE.

THEY HAVE DONE THEIR HOMEWORK NOT ONLY ON THEIR EXPERIENCE AND NATIONAL TRENDS WITH REGARDS TO THIS TYPE OF LIVING.

ANOTHER -- THIS IS UNDER TAB 7. ANOTHER QUESTION THAT WAS ASKED.

LET ME ORIENT THIS WITH BACK FACING UP.

WHERE IS THE TRANSITION IN HEIGHT FROM THE BUILDING A COMPONENT THAT IS 47 FEET. THIS 47 FEET IS ALONG THIS PERIMETER. ALONG WEST AND THE NORTH PERIMETER. AS YOU ARE STANDING ON THE SITE, YOU GO DOWN HILL TOWARD THE INTERSECTION OF 106 AND ILLINOIS. TRANSITION IN HEIGHT WILL OCCUR RIGHT HERE AND OCCUR DO UP THIS DRIVE AFTER YOU GET PAST THE GARAGE. AS YOU CURVE OVER HERE TO IT THE NORTH PART OF THE BUILDING. THAT IS WHERE THAT GRAY TRANSITION TAKES PLACE AND YOU ARE GOING DOWN TO WHERE IT -- TO WHERE THE BUILDING IS ACTUALLY AT THIS POINT OVER IN THE FAR WEST CORNER. MEASURED AT 63 FEET IN BUILDING HEIGHT BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE ADDED FLOOR DOWN.

WE ARE NOT GOING UP TO CREATE A SITUATION WHERE IT IS 47 AND 63 IS NEXT TO IT UP HERE. IT IS ACTUALLY BECAUSE THE GRADE IS CHANGING DOWN AND THAT ADDITIONAL FLOOR RIGHT ON THIS CORNER OF THE ROUNDABOUT ON 106 AND ILLINOIS STREET.

ANOTHER IMAGE IN THIS REGARD. WE HAVE A CROSS SECTION.

A BETTER IMAGE OF IT HERE IN A MINUTE.

A BIRD'S EYE VIEW FROM THE NORTHWEST LOOKING SOUTHEAST ILLINOIS STREET, THE TALLER ELEMENT OF THE ALSO AND 47 IS ALONG THESE TWO PERIMETERS. WE ARE ASKED TO PROVIDE A LITTLE BIT MORE INFORMATION ON THE PROXIMITY OF THE EXISTING RESIDENCES. AND THIS IS UNDER TAB 8.

TAB 8 IS AN ILLUSTRATION THAT IS SUPERIMPOSED OUR SITE PLAN THAT SHOWS THE FURTHEREST NORTH HOME IS 450 FEET.

SECOND CLOSEST HOME TO THE WEST IS 185 FEET TO THE BUILDING.

AND THE -- FOR THE SOUTH HOME TO THE WEST IS ABOUT 400 FEET.

397 FEET BETWEEN THAT HOME AND THE -- AND THE WESTERNMOST BUILDING FACADE OF THE PRIMARY BUILDING, NOT THE GARAGES, BUT THE PRIMARY BUILDING. AND TO THE SOUTH, TO THE CLOSEST HOME, ROUGHLY ABOUT 200 FEET BETWEEN THE BUILDING -- PRIMARY BUILDING AND THE CLOSEST HOME. THE IMAGES ON DISPLAY ARE A FLAT ELEVATION OF WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING AT IF YOU ARE UP TO THE WEST. YOU ARE LOOKING WEST.

AND THIS WILL BE THE IMAGE OF THE BUILDING THAT YOU WOULD SEE THE SHADED OUT AREA BECAUSE THAT BUILDING TURNS BACK.

AND HEADS TO THE -- TO THE NORTHEAST.

THAT YOU IS WHAT YOU WILL SEE WITH ELEVATION, BUT YOU DON'T.

AN ADDITIONAL WALL AND LANDSCAPING ADDED AND I WILL REVIEW THAT WITH YOU IN A MINUTE.

THIS A VIEW AND AGAIN YOU WOULDN'T ACTUALLY SEE IT THIS BECAUSE A GARAGE FURTHER BETWEEN YOU AND THERE AND YOU WOULDN'T SEE THE GARAGE FROM THE PROPERTY TO THE WEST AND THE WALL AND AND THE ADDITIONAL LANDSCAPE TREATMENT.

I WILL JURN TO.

-- I WILL TURN TO. THIS IS A PHOTOGRAPH OF THE PROPERTY ON THE WEST. THE EVERGREEN TREE AND THAT EVERGREEN TREE IS FIVE FEET IN HEIGHT.

THIS IS A SIGNIFICANT TREE STANDING TO THE WEST.

THIS IMAGE IS FROM 106TH LOOKING NRTH AND WEST GENERALLY ACROSS THE STREET. THE TREES TO THE WEST.

ANOTHER IMAGE. THESE ARE THE FIVE TO SIX-FOOT-TALL EVER GREENS AND EXISTING TREES THAT ARE PRESERVED WITH THAN SPACE. AND ANOTHER VIEW OF FIVE TO SIX-FOOT-TALL EVERGREEN WITH THE EXISTING TREES BEYOND THAT.

THE WALL THAT IS CONSTRUCTED WITHIN THAT SPACE OF THE PROPERTY LINE AND APPROXIMATELY WHERE THOSE EVER GROWN TREES.

A SEGMENT THAT THE PROPERTY OWNER HAS CONSTRUCT AND BEHIND THE LOTS THAT ARE FOR SALE WITHIN THE ENVIRONMENT.

AND THIS WALL COMPLIES WITH THE REQUIREMENTS IN PRESIDENT EXISTING COMMITMENTS. THIS IS THE TREATMENT OF THE

[01:25:02]

THIS IS THE WALL THIS AND THIS IS THE WALL THAT WILL BE EXTENDED. IT IS REALLY HARD TO SEE.

THAT WALL STARTS RIGHT THERE. BOTTOM LINE WHERE THE BUILDING IS THERE THAT PART CONSTRUCTED IS WITHIN THAT VICINITY AND ALL THE WAY ALONG THAT BUFFER AREA. IN ADDITION TO THE WA WALL ARBOR VITAE PLANTED. NOTHING WITH THE BUFFER CHANGES THAN THE AT THE SAME TIME OF THE WALL ON THE WEST SIDE IN THIS VICINITY BASE ON THE DISCUSSION THAT JUSTICE IS HAVING WITH ADJOINING PROPERTY OWNER. LIGHTING WAS A -- WAS A COMMENT THAT WAS MADE AND WE WANTED TO PROVIDE INFORMATION ABOUT LIGHTING. THIS IS THE POLE DESIGN.

WHAT IS MORE IMPORTANT IS THE FIX CH YOU ARE DESIGN.

A FULL CUT-OFF. LEDS RECESSED IN THE CANISTER.

BECAUSE OF LED YOU DO NOT GET THE WASH FROM THE LEFT AND THE RIGHT WITH THE FIXTURE. THE HEIGHT OF THE FIXTURES UNDER THE COMMITMENTS ARE 15 FEET. IN ADDITION TO THE FACT THAT IT CAN ONLY GO DOWN. 15 FOOT IN HEIGHT.

AS I INDICATED WE ARE 150 FEET AWAY WITH THE CLOSEST PARKING LOT LIGHTING FIXTURES ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE GARAGES.

LIGHTING FIXTURES IN THE PARKING FIELD, GARAGES, BUFFER, EIGHT-INTO THE WALL, ADDITIONAL ARBOR VITAE AND MORE TREES ON THE ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNER'S PROPERTY.

AGAIN, ALL THIS IS TO ADDRESS THE QUESTIONS WE HEARD AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL INSIGHT.

THAT IS A LIGHTING FIXTURE. AND THIS LIGHTING FIXTURE IS THE TYPE OF FIXTURE THAT WOULD APPEAR AT SOMEONE'S BALCONY.

AS YOU CAN SEE HERE, IT IS LED TYPE OF LIGHTING AND DOWNWARD DIRECTED. NOTHING GOING OUT.

AND IT IS BASICALLY TO LIGHT THE FLOOR OF THE PATIO -- OR BALCONY, RATHER. THE TAB 12 IS THE RED LINE OF THE COMMITMENTS. THE REASON THERE IS A RED LINE IS THAT THERE ARE TWO ADDITIONAL ITEMS THAT WE ADD AND I WANT TO REVIEW THAT WITH YOU. ONE OF WHICH IS HERE ON PAGE 2.

IT IS THE LANGUAGE STAFF ASKED FOR IN THE STAFF REPORT REGARDING CHANGES TO THE COMMITMENTS THAT THE ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN IMAGES AND CHARACTER IMAGERY AND MATERIALS ARE REQUIRED AS THE PROCESS. WHILE THIS GIVES YOU THE IDEA, THE FINAL DRAWING IS WHAT COUNTS AT IN TERMS OF THE REVIEW OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION. IN ADDITION, THERE IS ONE OTHER CHANGE THAT WAS MADE TO THE COMMITMENTS.

THE LAST COMMITMENT, COMMITMENT G.

THIS PUTS AN EXCLAMATION POINT ON THE USE.

THIS REQUIRES THAT THE -- THE HOUSING WITHIN THIS COMPLY WITH THE HOPE OF THE REGULATIONS AS THEY RELATE TO AGE RESTRICTED COMMUNITIES. STAFF MADE THE DETERMINATION BASED UPON ALL THE INFORMATION WE PROVIDED THAT THIS MEETS THE ORDINANCE DEFINITION FOR -- FOR CONVALESCENT -- NURSING CONVALESCENT AND RETIREMENT COMMUNITY.

AND THAT IS A WHOLE LOT OF WORDS SAYING A WHOLE LOT OF THINGS, BUT IN OUR COMMITMENTS, WE ARE IMPLEMENTING THIS SO THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT -- THAT WHAT WE ARE PROVIDING AND COMPLIES WITH THE HOPE OF RESTRICTIONS AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL SO THAT WE ARE OF CONFIDENT THERE IS SPECIFICITY IN THERE SO NO ONE WILL HAVE A QUESTION. THE LAST TAB 13 WAS THE BLACK LINE OF THE SAME THING IN THE RED LINE.

AND TAB 14 WAS -- YOU ALREADY SEEN, THAT IS ALREADY A -- A COPY OF THE EXISTING COMMITMENTS.

WE PUT IT ALL IN THIS PACKET, SO IT, AGAIN, WOULD HELP FACILITATE OUR DISCUSSION THIS EVENING. LET ME CHECK VERY QUICKLY THAT WE COVERED THE TOPICS THAT WERE IDENTIFIED IN THE STAFF REPORT AND THEN AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS.

ONE IS WITH REGARD TO PARKING AND THE AGE 55 AND OLDER HOUSING CLASSIFICATION. THE VIEW FROM THE PROPERTY TO THE WEST, TREE PRESERVATION AND ONE ADDITIONAL ITEM WAS ABOUT

[01:30:02]

AND THE ANSWER IS, YES. JUSTICE IS IN THE BUILDING OF PROVIDING RESIDENCES FOR THIS DEMOGRAPHIC.

WIDER HALLWAYS, GRAB BARS. EVERYTHING HAS A LEVER ENTRY.

AND A WHOLE LIST OF THINGS THIS DOE INSIDE THE BUILDING, AND THAT IS BECAUSE THEY ARE ADDRESSING THEIR TENANTS' NEEDS.

IT IS NOT WRITTEN INTO AN ORDINANCE.

IT IS WITH THIS DEMOGRAPHIC AND THEIR PROFESSIONALS IN SERVING IN DEMOGRAPHIC AND DESIGN THE ELEMENTS FOR THEIR TENANTS THAT LIVE HERE. I THINK THAT COVERS ALL THE ITEMS THAT WE HAD INTENDED TO PRESENT.

AND, OF COURSE, WE ARE AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS.

MR. JUSTICE IS STEPPED BACK IN THE ROOM AND STEVE PITTMAN IS HERE AS WELL. TO THE EXTENT I MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO FULLY ADDRESS THOSE, I CAN CALL PEOPLE UP.

THANKS. >> THANK YOU.

STAFF, ANYTHING TO FOLLOW UP ON TH

THAT? >> THANK YOU, I DID WANT TO CLARIFY THEY MADE THE CHANGES THAT WE REQUESTED.

TWO COMMENTS FROM THE FIRST MEETING.

BASED ON ARCHITECTURE. BASED ON THE DESIGN, THE TRAFFIC GENERATION. HOUSING TYPE WE ARE LOOKING AT WITH THE 55-PLUS RESTRICTION. I THINK THEY ARE COMFORTABLE WITH THIS I THINK THAT OF USE. AND IN ADDITION, THE OTHER COMMITMENTS AND THE SITE DESIGN FEATURE ALSO BENEFIT THIS PRBABLY WITH THE RESERVATION AND THE BUFFER ALONG THE SOUTH AND THE WEST, THE LOCATION OF THAT BUILDING CLOSER TO ILLINOIS STREET AND HAVING LARGER SETBACK FROM THE WEST.

AND THEN THE OVERALL DESIGN OF THE BUILDING.

SO WE DID RECOMMEND THAT THIS GOES BACK TO THE FULL PLANNING COMMISSION WITH A FAVORABLE RECOMMENDATION.

>> I WILL OPEN IT UP TO THE COMMISSION WITH COUNCILWOMAN.

>> MULTIPLE QUESTIONS. MY FIRST QUESTION, HOW MUCH IT SHALL HOW MANY CONVERSATIONS DID YOU HAVE WITH THE ROSATO HILLS NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION. AND CAN YOU GIVE US SOME CONTEXT HOW THEY ARE FEELING ABOUT THE PRO PROJECT? >I THINK THEY ARE HERE TONIGHT.

I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK ON THEIR BEHALF.

I WILL CALL UP WALT TO DESCRIBE THE DISCUSSION.

>> WHILE YOU ARE AT THAT. SAME QUESTION, IS THE ELEVATION -- YOU CAN ANSWER THIS AT SOME POINT.

IS THE ELEVATION OF ROSATO HILL -- IS THAT THE NAME OF THE

NEIGHBORHOOD? >> YES, MA'AM.

>> IS THAT LEVEL TO THE ELEVATION? MEANING TO -- HOW IT GRADES? WHERE IS THE LEVEL OF --

>> GRADE OF THE ACTUAL LAND IS TO GRADE FROM THE PROSPECTIVE

BUILDING TO THE HOMES, YES. >> SO MR. BOGLAND IS HERE THIS EVENING. WE HAVE BEEN FACE TO FACE I BELIEVE COUPLE OF TIMES AND FOUR OR FIVE DIFFERENT E-MAIL CORRESPONDENCES AS RECENT AS THIS AFTERNOON.

WE ARE DOWN TO ONE OR TWO TALKING POINTS RIGHT NOW THAT ARE GOING TO GET RECOGNIZE I NEED WHEN DEALING WITH THE WALL PLACEMENT AND, AGAIN, THE SITE FACING TO THE WEST COMPOSITE.

SOMETHING I BELIEVE WE CAN WORK WITH.

>> THANK YOU, I APPRECIATE YOU WORKING WITH THE NEIGHBORS.

IT IS VERY IMPORTANT. THANK YOU.

I HAVE OTHER QUESTIONS. BUT I WON'T BOGART IT.

ALL RIGHT. SO AS FAR AS THE LIGHTING IS CONCERNED, WHAT -- I DIDN'T SEE THE ADDITIONAL COMMITMENTS THAT THERE WAS SOME SORT OF LIGHTING THE UDO DICTATES, RIGHT, OF THE LUMENS AND THE LIGHTING PLAN. BECAUSE THERE WAS A LOT OF TALK ABOUT LIGHT POLLUTION. I BELIEVE IT IS IN THOSE

COMMITMENTS. >> I DIDN'T GO THROUGH EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM YET. BUT IF IT IS IN THERE, I AM COME NORTHABLE WITH THAT. I KNOW WHEN YOU HAVE RESIDENTIAL

NEAR COMMERCIAL -- >> THERE ARE ENHANCED STANDARDS IN THE EXISTING COMMITMENTS, WE PROVIDE YOU AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT IT LIKELY ENDED UP BEING THAT COMPLIED WITH THE ADDITIONAL

LIMITATIONS. >> THANK YOU, JOHN.

BACK TO -- BACK TO THE PARKING SITUATION.

I UNDERSTAND YOUR THOUGHT PROCESS.

BUT I GUESS WHAT I AM WONDER SOMETHING, IN A COMMUNITY LIKE THIS. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY OF SAYING THIS SO I WILL JUST SAY IT. WEALTHIER COMMUNITY WITH A HIGHER PRICE POINT, IT WOULD SEEM LIKE THEY PROBABLY HAVE MORE VEHICLES THAN SOME OTHER AREAS.

CAN YOU SPEAK TO THAT? I MEAN, I JUST DON'T KNOW ANY

OTHER WAY OF PUTTING IT. >> HELLO, I AM ANGELA MILLER AND EVP AND CEO OF JUSTICE COMPANIES.

[01:35:04]

AND EVEN THOUGH IT IS A 55 AND OLDER COMMUNITY, TYPICALLY OUR AVERAGE AGE RUNS BETWEEN 74 AND 76.

AND 75 AND OLDER, FEMALE DRIVERS DROP OFF.

THERE IS ONLY 40% TO 50% OF FEMALES THAT DRIVE AFTER 75.

SO THAT MAKES A BIG IMPACT ON -- THAT WE NEVER HAD -- I KNOW -- HIGH-END COMMUNITIES. WE OWN WOODLAND TERRACE OF CARMEL. WE BUILT THAT IN 2017.

WE OPENED IN 2017. SO IT IS NOT LIKE WE ARE NEW TO HIGH-END COMMUNITIES. AND WE NEVER HAD AN ISSUE WITH PARKING -- OR NOT TOO MUCH. THE RESEARCH WE HAVE DID NOT ONLY TO UNOUR OWN COMMUNITIES AND WHAT WE HAD, BUT WE BUILT FOUR COMMUNITIES SINCE 2017, AND THREE OF THOSE ARE -- ALL FOUR OF THEM -- ALL OF THEM ARE HIGH-END COMMUNITIES AND HIGHER ENDS -- COMMUNITIES IN HAMILTON COUNTY.

AND HENDRICKS COUNTY AND DANVILLE WHICH WAS A HIGHER DEMOGRAPHIC AS WELL. SO IT REALLY HAS HAVEN'T BEEN AN ISSUE. USUALLY PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED WITH HAVING TOO MUCH PARKING VERSUS NOT ENOUGH PARKING.

BUT WE SHOULD HAVE AMPLE -- >> DON'T CALL US ON IT.

[LAUGHTER] >> SO I -- I DON'T KNOW IF THAT

HELPS TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. >> YES, IT DOES.

SO IT IS JUST A CURIOSITY -- CURIOUS -- ME BEING CURIOUS ABOUT IT AND UNDERSTANDING -- AND I KNOW WOODLAND TERRACE IS A NICE UPSCALE. I DIDN'T MEAN TO IMPUGN YOUR

WORK BECAUSE IT IS LOVELY. >> NO, THAT'S FINE.

WE HAVE THE OLDER PROPERTIES AS WELL.

AND IT IS TRUE, THAT THE DEMOGRAPHICS IS NOT AS HIGH END

ON THE INCOME DEMOGRAPHIC. >> I WANT OUR NEIGHBORS TO UNDERSTAND IS IT AS WELL TOO JUST TO GET IT OUT THERE.

>> ABSOLUTELY. >> SO I -- I MISSED THE PLAN COMMISSION MEETING, BUT I AM GENERALLY IN FAVOR OF THIS PROJECT. AND I THINK JOHN, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, WAS IT ORIGINALLY GOING TO BE MEDICAL OFFICE SPACE OR SOMETHING -- I FEEL MEDICAL OFFICE SPACES AT BRIDGES, THIS

IS A BETTER USE. >> THERE WASN'T A SPECIFIC

TENANT. >> JUST GENERAL OFFICE AND

MEDICAL OFFICE. >>AND NOT A SPECIFIC TENANT. DONE AT THE TIME WITH THE ANTICIPATION OF ATTRACTING A TENANT.

THAT HAVEN'T COME TO FRUITION AND QUITE THE OPPOSITE.

AN OVERABUNDANCE OF -- AND IN JOHN'S VIEW, NOT THEIRS, OVERABUNDANCE OF OFFICE IN THE VICINITY.

>> YEAH, SO I WOULD AGREE. GLAD TO SEE SENIOR HOUSING SOMETHING THAT WE NEED. COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.

IN THE ORIGINAL COMMITMENTS, I DON'T THINK YOU CHANGED THIS, BUT THE ORIGINAL ONE NUMBER 8 WATTS STUCCO CAN ONLY BE APPLIED AROUND THE WINDOWS. NO MORE THAN 10%.

>> UNCHANGED. >> IT WAS UNCHANGED.

I COULDN'T SELL LOOKING AT THE PICTURE AS FAR AS.

>> THE PROVISION OF THE ELEVATIONS WAS ONLY TO INFORM THE DISCUSSION OF WHAT WOULD COMPLY, BUT, AGAIN, AS STAFF INDICATED WE HAVE TO SUBMIT TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION.

WE HAVEN'T -- WE HAVEN'T CHANGED THE ARCHITECTURAL STANDARD, JUST

IMPORTED A NEW ELEVATION. >> GREAT, WONDERFUL.

THEN ON THE WALL. I SEE SINCE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT STILL WORKING ON WHERE -- ARE YOU -- YOU ARE WORKING ON THE COLORING OR TYPE OF WALL? OR ARE YOU WORKING ON WHERE YOU PLACE THE WALL. IS THAT STILL UP FOR DISCUSSION?

>> BOTH. >> OKAY.

>> BOTH. AND WE WILL -- WE WILL -- AGAIN, WE WILL CONCLUDE THAT DISCUSSION BEFORE WE COME BACK TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION. IT'S -- THE QUESTION IS, HOW FAR AWAY FROM THE ADJOINING PROPERTY LINE WILL THE WALL BE.

AND AGAIN, WE ARE JUST -- ENGINEERING-WISE WE ARE NOT THERE TO IDENTIFY EXACTLY WHERE IT WILL GO AND WORKING TOWARD

IT. >> IT PROBABLY WILL NOT IMPACT WHERE YOU HAVE THOSE TREES. WE ARE NOT ENDING CLEARING OUT

THE TREES. >> THE GOOD THING WE HAVE THE FLEXIBILITY THROUGH THE COMMITMENT TO LOCATE THE WALL -- IF IT NEEDS TO STAIR STEP. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A STRAIGHT LINE AND STAIR STEP TO AVOID TREES AND WORK THROUGH THERE THE

WEST BECK TO NOT ELIMINATE. >> GREAT, THANK YOU.

ONE LAST QUESTION. MAYBE I SAW THIS IN THE MINUTES.

WHAT ARE THE SQUARE FOOT AND OF THE DIFFERENT APARTMENT SIZES.

[01:40:01]

AVERAGE SIZE. >> OKAY.

THAT IS A GOOD SIZE. I THINK I SAW ONE THAT WAS VERY,

VERY SMALL. >> WE HAVE ONE BEDROOMS AND TWO BEDROOMS. ONE BEDROOMS TYPICALLY RUN 800 TO 900. TWO BEDROOMS CAN BE AS LARGE AS

1900. >> THOSE ARE MY QUESTIONS SO

THANK YOU. >> I JUST HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS BECAUSE I DID MISS THE LAST MEET TOO AND I AM SORRY, IS THIS -- ARE THESE APARTMENTS ALL INDEPENDENT LIVING? SO THERE IS NO ASSISTED LIVING, SKILLED NURSING? OKAY. THAT WASN'T CLEAR.

BECAUSE THAT WOULD PLAY INTO THE PARKING WHICH I AM STRUGGLING WITH. AND I DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND THE AMENITIES OUTSIDE. I KNOW IF IT IS ALL INDEPENDENT LIVING AND PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TOPPING DRIVE AS MUCH, THEY GET OUT AND WALK. AND I DON'T EVEN THOUGH IF PETS ARE ALLOWED HERE. WHAT IS AVAILABLE? BECAUSE IN ANOTHER CAREER OF MINE, I VISITED A LOOTA/* LOT O THESE COMMUNITIES AND OUTDOOR LIVING AND A LITTLE COURTYARD AND THINGS LIKE THAT. WHEN PEOPLE GET OUT.

THEY WERE LANDLOCKED IN THAT FACILITYAND A LITTLE COURTYARD THINGS LIKE THAT. WHEN PEOPLE GET OUT.

THEY WERE LANDLOCKED IN THAT FACILITY THAT WILL BE NICE.

WHAT CAN YOU DO AND WHAT ARE YOU DOING FOR THAT.

>> I WILL INTROTHAT AND SHE MAY BE ABLE TO ELABORATE.

WE HAVE ONE OF THE COMPONENTS TO OUR COMMUNITY IS SOCIAL PROGRAMMING AND A FULL STAFF BEHIND THAT UNDER ONE COMPONENT THAT WE CALL JUSTICE CARE NETWORK AND HAVE AN ONSITE MARKETING DIRECTOR. A FULL SOCIAL CALENDAR ON ALL OF OUR COMMUNITIES THAT FACILITATE ON-SITE AND OFF-SITE.

DAILY ACTIVITIES AND SEASONAL ACTIVITIES, HOLIDAY-BASED ACTIVITIES, TRIPS PLANNED AND THINGS LIKE THAT ON A REGULAR BASIS. WE LOOK AT OUR RENTAL RATE STRUCTURE AND A LOT OF THAT IS INCORPORATED INTO THAT STRUCTURE AND DOES OFFER. WHY WE ARE SUCH YOU A DRAW IN THESE COMMUNITY WITH OUR DEMOGRAPHIC.

>> I LIVE THERE AND I WANT TO GO OUTSIDE AND I WANT TO GET EXERCISE AND WALK THE FACILITY. I MEAN WHAT DO WE REALLY HAVE THERE? BECAUSE MANY, MANY OF THESE FACILITIES HAVE NOTHING. AND I HEAR FRUSTRATION FROM

PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE. >> PATHWAY CONNECTIONS TO THE ASPHALT PATH TO 96TH STREET TO THE BRIDGES AND BEYOND.

A LOT OF CONNECTIVITY FROM A PEDESTRIAN STANDPOINT ALONG THE EXISTING NETWORK AND THE TIE-IN. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS HERE ON IN INTERNAL SPACE. THIS IS ALL IN THE INTERNAL COURTYARD AND HARD SCAPE AND SWIMMING POOL AREA AVAILABLE TO THE RESIDENTS AND CREATES A SPACE THAT HAS LIMITED ACT IS TOES IT. AND NOT THAT THE GENERAL PUBLIC WILL COME TO THIS SPACE, BUT A SPACE THAT WILL BE ACCESSED INTERNAL TO THE BUILDING AND A PRETTY LARGE AREA.

POP JUST TRYING TO PICTURE WITH THE SIZE OF THE SPACE.

IT WAS SOPHIA SQUARE ALONG THE MONON AND MAIN STREET.

THAT COURTYARD SPACE. THIS A LARGER THAN SPACE WITHIN THERE. I DON'T HAVE A SQUARE FOOT AND, BUT GAUGING ON THE SIZE OF THE POOL AREA AND THE OUTDOOR GREEN SPACE. IT IS A MOSTLY HARD SCAPE IF NOT

ENTIRELY HARD SCAPE. >> OBVIOUSLY A SEASONAL POOL.

YOU CAN'T -- I UNDERSTAND THAT. OKAY, PART TWO WAS THE OTHER FRUSTRATION IS -- I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THE VISITOR PARKING. YOU MENTIONED WOODLAND TERRACE.

I HAVE BEEN THERE FOR EVENTS, AND THERE IS WOEFULLY SHORT FOR ANYBODY COMING TO PARK. I MEAN WHAT DO YOU HAVE IN FRONT FOR HANDICAPPED. NOT ENOUGH IN THESE PLACES.

I AM NOT -- I SAID HANDICAPPED BUT NOT JUST ADDRESSING HANDICAPPED. TALKING OF PEOPLE COMING IN.

PEOPLE COME IN FOR DINNER AND LUNCH.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE THAT INFORMATION TONIGHT, YOU CAN BRING IT BACK TO THE NEXT MEETING I DON'T HAVE A SUFFICIENT NUMBER TO TELL YOU THAT YOU NEED, BUT FIVE OR SIX PLACE IS NOT GOING TO BE ENOUGH. JUST NOT ENOUGH.

PEOPLE IN HAVE PARTIES AND TH

[01:45:07]

THINGS. >> WE UNDERSTAND AND WE WON'T MAKE IT ECONOMICALLY A OR INFEASIBLE.

WE DON'T HAVE ON-SITE DINING PROGRAMMING AND THE LIKE IN THAT RESPECT, SO WE DON'T HAVE MASSIVE GROUPS COMING IN.

WE HAVE LARGE SOCIAL SPACES THAT ARE DESIGNED FOR RESIDENT USE AND GUESTS, BUT THAT IS ALL TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION BASED UPON -- AGAIN, STATISTICALLY AND FACTUALLY THE NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES PER UNIT PER RESIDENT. WE DO TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION. THERE ARE TIMES WHEN WE HAVE LARGER EVENTS WHERE THERE IS A FULL PARKING LOT.

WE NEVER HAD AN INSTANCE WITH NO PARKING IN OUR COMMUNITY.

>> YOU DON'T HAVE A DINING ROOM? TOTALLY INDEPENDENT LIVING?

>> YES. >> OKAY, THANK YOU.

>> GO AHEAD. >> COULD YOU PUT THE IMAGE UNDER TAB TWO BACK UP, JOHN. SO ON THE RIGHT -- ON THE RIGHT SIDE IS ILLINOIS STREET.

THERE IS A STILL PATH ALONG THERE AND THEN THERE ISES IN ONE. YOU PULL IT DOWN AND ALSO ONE ON 06TH STREET. SO THERE A WAY TO GET THERE OTHER THAN WALKING DOWN THE MAIN DRIVE.

BECAUSE THERE IS GOING TO BE A PATH THAT LEADS YOU DOWN TO THE 106TH STREET PATH AND A PATH THAT LEADS YOU DOWN TO THE

ILLINOIS STREET PATH? >> THAT WILL BE IDENTIFIED ON THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN A PUBLIC HEARING THAT WILL COME BACK TO Y YOU.

>> THE ANSWER WILL BE YES, BUT IT IS NOT SHOWN ON THIS

CONCEPTUAL DRAWING. >> I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT.

BUT MORE THINGS TO DO OUTSIDE -- I WANT TO CONQUER IS GOING TO BE REALLY IMPORTANT I DO FIT THE OVER 55 DEMOGRAPHIC.

NOT THE ONE YOU MENTIONED EARLIER.

[LAUGHTER] AND I JUST HAVE TO REPEAT.

I AM CONCERNED OF THE NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES.

THIS ISN'T DANVILLE AND THIS IS CARMEL AND I AM JUST -- I AM GOING TO ADVOCATE FOR CONSIDERING MORE PARKING SPOTS.

I JUST -- I AM CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.

>> ONE OF THE POINTS OF REFERENCE AND I THINK STAFF NOTED IN IN THE STAFF REPORT. WE LOOKED BACK AND LOOKED AT THE LAST HALF DOZEN APARTMENT COMMUNITIES NOT AGE-RESTRICTED IN THE CITY OF CARMEL AND NOT THOSE -- URBAN AREAS ACROSS THE CITY. STAFF HAVE IDENTIFIED THE STANDARD IS 1.5 AND 1.6. THAT IS THE RANGE BUT ALL THAT ONE FELL IN THAT WAS BELOW THE 1.5.

THAT IS ONE THAT AND A SITUATION WITH TWO OR THREE-BEDROOM HOME WITH PERHAPS MORE THAN TWO DRIVERS.

AND STAFF HAS FOUND OVER THE L LASTED A YET IN TERMS OF WHAT THE CARMEL.

WHAT THE EXPECTATION OF CARMEL WILL TO BE PROVIDE ADEQUATE PARK. NOT NUMEROUS COMPLAINTS ABOUT UNAVAILABILITY OF. IT IS TO THE 1.3 LEVEL THAT WE ARE SEEKING BASED ON THE PROPOSED USE.

SO I AM TRYING TO ADD INFORMATION TO HELP BUILD CONTEXT FOR THE DISCUSSION. I AM NOT ARGUING YOUR.

AND JUSTICE AND THEIR COMPANY, THEY PROFESSIONALLY MANAGE THEIR SPACES AND THIS IS THEIR EXPERIENCE.

THE 1.8 TO 1.3 IS THEIR WORLD. AND THEY FIND THAT IS WORKS.

FOR CARMEL, WHAT THEY FOUND WAS FROM A NONAGE-RESTRICTED COMPONENT 1.5 AND 1.6. OUR ASK, IF YOU WILL, OF THE 1.3 IS SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE OF THOSE TWO.

>> I LIKE THOSE OTHER HIGHER NUMBERS.

I AM JUST SAYING. AND I -- I WOULD SAY THAT CARMEL MIGHT BE A ABERRATION FROM NATIONAL NORMS IN TERMS OF WOMEN WANTING TO GIVE UP DRIVING AT AGE 74.

I DON'T SEE THAT HAPPENING IN CARMEL.

MY FINAL IN ADDITION TO ACCESS TO THE PATHS.

WE ARE ASKING QUESTIONS THAT ARE NOT WHAT THIS MOTION WILL

[01:50:04]

SINCE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IT. WHERE YOU GOT GREEN SPACE THERE, ASK YOU AT SOME POINT TO CONSIDER -- I THINK I MENTIONED THIS BEFORE THE LARGE SWINGS LIKE THAT ARE AT MIDTOWN AND MAYBE SOME YEAR-ROUND OUTDOOR EXERCISE AREAS WHICH THEY MAKE WHERE YOU CAN GO OUTSIDE AND THERE ARE PLACES TO -- TO DO WEIGHTLIFTING OR INCLINES AND ALL OF THAT.

I THINK THEY ARE CALLED ADULT PLAYGROUND.

I WANT ANYBODY LISTENING TO THIS, THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT EXERCISE. I DON'T LIKE USING THAT TERM.

BUT EXERCISE PLAYGROUNDS. BUT ANYWAY, THOSE ARE MY GENERAL COMMENTS. I MUCH, MUCH, MUCH PREFER WHAT YOU ARE PROPOSING TO HAVE APARTMENTS FOR AGE 55 AND OVER.

AGE-RESTRICTED APARTMENT THAN ANOTHER OFFICE BUILDING.

SO IN GENERAL I WANT YOU TO KNOW I AM VERY SUPPORTIVE OF WHAT YOU

ARE PROPOSING HERE. >> MR. JUSTICE HAS LET ME KNOW THAT THEY CAN AGREE TO BOTH THOSE TWO ITEMS THAT YOU REQUESTED. AND THEY WILL BETWEEN NOW AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING WILL PROVIDE SOME EXAMPLES WHAT THAT IS AND INCLUDE IT AS PART OF OUR PRESENTATION.

>> I HAVE ONE QUICK FOLLOW-UP COMMENT QUESTION.

SO CONTRARY TO WHAT -- I LIKE EVERYTHING SCREENED AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE WITH TREES. BECAUSE YOU ARE TALKING OF MOVING THAT WALL, YOU MIGHT RECALL QUITE SOME TIME AGO, ANOTHER PETITION THAT CAME OVER. IT HAPPENED WALL GOT MOVED TO BLOCK ALL THE TREES FROM THE RESIDENTS.

I DON'T WANT TO SEE THAT THERE WHERE THE WALL GETS MOVED AND THE TREE LINE IS COMPLETELY BLOCKED FROM THIS DEVELOPMENT.

SO I WANTED THIS DEVELOPMENT DEVELOPMENT TO HAVE AS MUCH.

THAT IS PROBABLY NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, BUT SEEING WE DID HAVE THAT PETITION COME THROUGH. AND THAT WAS THE REASON I VOTED AGAINST THAT PETITION. BECAUSE THEY ENDED UP WALLING OFF THE TREES FROM THE DEVELOPMENT.

SO WHEN YOU ARE THINKING OF MOVING THE WALL, I AM TOTALLY OKAY WITH STAIR-STEPPING IN AND OUT.

WHAT I DON'T WANT TO SEE IT MOVING SO FAR IN, THAT THE ONE BEAUTIFUL FREE ONLINE IS COMPLETELY SHUT DOWN FROM THIS DEVELOPMENT. I UNDERSTAND YOU HAVE TO WORK WITH THE NEIGHBORS AND FIND SOMETHING THAT IS HAPPENING, BUT BE COGNIZANT -- I WANT THIS TO BE PRETTY FOR THE RESIDENTS WHO

LIVE THERE TOO. >> UNDERSTOOD.

>> THAT IS MY LAST COMMENT ON THE WALL.

SO THANKS. >> OKAY.

SO I WILL BRING THIS HOME. I WILL START WITH THAT POINT.

I -- I ASKED TO GET INVOLVED WITH THE CITY ARBORIST.

WHAT WE ARE PROTECTING AND WHAT IS WORTH GETTING OUT THERE AND I WOULD LOVE TO SEE A HYBRID APPROACH.

THIS ISN'T A WALL TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT AND IN.

THIS IS PRIVACY. SO HOW BEST DO YOU ADDRESS THAT? THERES THAT WE DON'T NEED A WALL.

MY OPINION IS, SHOULD START WITH WHAT IS HEALTHY.

WHAT IS NOT GREAT. WHAT NEEDS TO GO AWAY.

GET THAT GONE. AND START WORKING ON THIS PRIVACY BUFFER WHETHER WITH ARBOR VITAE OR THE WALL OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE. I AM LOOKING FOR A COMMITMENT OR NOT. I AM THINK I AM GETTING IT.

MOVING CONTINUE TO DEBBY'S REQUEST FOR OUTDOOR EXERCISE EQUIPMENT, CARMEL PARKS HAD VARIOUS SU SUCCESSES WITH THAT MAKE MAYBE SOME KIND OF LINEAR PATH CREATED WITH A MARKED DISTANCE AND IF PEOPLE WALK IT ONE TIME, A QUARTER OF A MILE IN, OR HAVE THEY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO SOME EXERCISE.

ON THAT SAME REALM, MAYBE THERE IS SOME KIND OF PARTNERSHIP THAT CAN BE MADE CAN CARMEL PARKS AND THE ILLINOIS CORRIDOR.

A LOT OF HEALTH CONSCIOUS PEOPLE IN THAT CORRIDOR.

MAYBE BETWEEN YOU AND CARMEL PARKS, AN AGREEMENT CAN BE MADE.

I WILL BE HAPPY TO HAVE US SIT DOWN AND HELP DISCUSS THAT.

THAT WILL BE A BENEFIT TO YOU AND THE BENEFIT TO THE COMMUNITY. AGAIN, I AM GOING TO ASK BECAUSE I -- BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE IN MY WORLD I CAN HELP GET THE BALL ON THE TEE. I CAN COACH YOU ON HOW TO SWING AT IT. BUT I DON'T GET TO SWING AT IT MYSELF. SO WITH THAT, WHAT CONVERSATIONS HAVE BEEN HAD WITH THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTY ABOUT

[01:55:02]

IF YOU HAVEN'T IT IT, I WANT TO HEAR ABOUT IT AT THE FULL PLANNING COMMISSION OR SEE SOMETHING IN WRITING BEFORE THE NEXT PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING.

AND ALSO, AGAIN, ON THE TEE, I ASKED FOR SOME -- FOR SOME CREATIVE CONVERSATION ABOUT TIF AND THINGS WE CAN TO DO MAYBE DO SOME COVERED PARKING HERE. MAYBE SOLAR PANELS.

MAYBE SOMETHING TO HELP. I KNOW SOMETHING THAT STAFF COMPREHENSIVE SPECIFICALLY ALIXI AINTERESTED IN AND GREEN RECOVERY -- FAIR. AND ALSO YOU HAVE WATER, IF YOU WILL, ON-SITE. AND I THOUGHT THAT WAS ADVAN ADVANTAGEOUS.

NOT WHAT TIF MONEY IS USED FOR. AND IS THERE SOME KIND OF I AM GOING TO SAY BIO FILTER AND SOMETHING SHY OF MECHANICAL THAT CAN BE DESIGNED INTO HERE TO MAKE WATER QUALITY BETTER.

IF YOU HAVEN'T HAD THAT CONVERSATION, I IMPLORE TO YOU REACH OUT TO THE DIRECTOR, TO ADMINISTRATOR JOHN THOMPSON.

REACH OUT TO ME DIRECT KLITSING WITH CARP KARM CANCEL PARKS.

AS I STAYED WITH OTHER PROJECTS SO DON'T FEEL LIKE I AM PICKING ON YOU. STEVE PITTMAN HEARD ME SAY THIS BEFORE. IN CARMEL, WE HAVE LESS AND LESS PROPERTY. WE HAVE TO BE INCREASINGLY DYNAMIC ON THE PROPERTIES WE HAVE LEFT BECAUSE THEY ARE THE HARDEST PROPERTIES TO DEVELOP, THAT'S WHY THEY ARE LEFT.

I IMPLORE YOU TO LOOK AT THESE OPPORTUNITIES.

I AM NOT TRYING TO BE DIFFICULT. I AM TRYING TO MAKE THE BETTER PRODUCT HERE. ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY? OKAY, GREAT.

I WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION, I SUPP

SUPPOSE. >> I MOVE WE SEND THE THREE DOCKET ITEMS THAT PREVIOUSLY HAVE BEEN READ BACK TO THE FULL PLANNING COMMISSION WITH A FAVORABLE RECOMMENDATION.

>> SPI WILL SECOND. >> ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.

OPPOSED. I AM SORRY -- ALL THOSE JUST IN CASE, WE CALLED A VOTE AND A UNANIMOUS AYE IN FAVOR OF SENDING WITH A POSITIVE RECOMMENDATION.

ANY OF THOSE OPPOSED. WE DIDN'T HEAR ANY, SO WE WILL, THEREFORE, SEND THIS ON AND THE AYES HAVE IT.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND WE WILL TEE YOU AT OUR NEXT FULL COMMISSION MEETING. THANK YOU.

NEXT DOCKET NUMBER. 104 PENN EXTERIOR BUILDING MODIFICATION. APPLICANT SEEKS DESIGN APPROVAL FOR EXTERIOR MODIFICATIONS INCLUDING ARCHITECTURAL MATERIAL CHANGES ADDITION OF EN THROW PERGOLA AND LIGHTING AND SIGNAGE. 401 PARKWAY.

AND IT IS NOT LOCATED WITHIN THE ZONE.

FILED BY KAY DRUMMER OF SMBJ ARCHITECTS.

PETITIONER HAS THE FLOOR.

>> DO YOU GUYS ALL HAVE A COPY OF WHAT THEY SENT? THERE WE GO.

PERFECT. OKAY. ALL RIGHT , SO NOT TO READ OFF A SCRIPT BUT,

[02:00:01]

FOR THOSE OF US WAS HISTORY THIS BUILDING WAS BUILT FIRST AND IT WAS THROUGH A COUPLE OF ITERATIONS IN ITS CAREER AND LOST PROPERTY GROUP BUILT THE BUILDINGS TO BOTH THE EAST AND THE WEST. ONE IN 05 AND ONE IN 07. THE MIDDLE BUILDING WHICH IS WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS A LITTLE OLDER AND SO THEY'RE TRYING TO COMPLEMENT THAT WITH A LITTLE BIT MORE MODERN LOOK WITH A WRAP PRODUCT AND A NEW PERGOLA INJURY IN THE FRONT, AND A FEATURE ON THE BACK AND SOME LIT SIGNAGE FROM A NUMBERING STANDPOINT THIS IS THE EXISTING ELEVATION THIS IS JUST ANOTHER ONE OF THE EXISTING ELEVATIONS, THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF BOTH OF THE PERGOLA ENTRY HERE, THAT I AM POINTING TO WITH STOREFRONT GLASS AND THEN YOU CAN SEE THE WRAP PRODUCT, THEY'VE GOT HERE ON THE FIRST COUPLE LEVELS AND THEN THE BRICK ON THE BOTTOM IS THE EXISTING THAT COMPLEMENTS THE NEWER IF YOU WILL TWO BUILDINGS THAT ARE THERE AGAIN THIS IS NOT MY EXPERTISE BUT THIS IS THE PRODUCT THAT HOW IT IS APPLIED, TO THE EXISTING PRODUCT THAT IS PROBABLY THE BEST RENDERING OF THE FINISHED PRODUCT IF YOU WILL. SORRY I DON'T MEAN TO GO THROUGH THESE TOO FAST HERE SO STOP ME IF YOU WOULD LIKE. THESE ARE SHOWING THE LIGHT THAT THEY WANTED TO ADD, THE BACKLIT ADDRESS AND THE PERGOLA AS WELL AS THE SYSTEM THAT THEY ARE PUTTING ON OR PROPOSED TO PUT ON. AND THEN I WON'T BORE YOU WITH THESE BUT THESE ARE OUR ARCHITECTURAL DRAWINGS THAT CAN ADDRESS QUESTIONS I PROBABLY CANNOT ANSWER. BUT, WHAT CAN I ANSWER RELATIVE TO THE PROPOSED ?

>> I WILL TELL YOU WHAT I WILL HELP YOU OUT, YOU ARE DOING GREAT SO FAR. WE WILL LET STAFF FILL IN THE BLANKS. AND THEN I WILL DO SOMETHING THAT'S A LITTLE NONTRADITIONAL I WILL COME BACK IF YOU FEEL LIKE STAFF MISSED SOMETHING, GO

AHEAD. >> GO AHEAD, PLANNING ADMINISTRATOR DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY SERVICES, SO AS WE HAVE HEARD THEY WANT TO RESCAN THE BUILDING.

>> IF YOU COULD GO TO ONE OF THE LAST RENDERINGS THAT YOU HAD I THINK THAT WOULD PROBABLY HELP OUT. FOR EVERYBODY

>> EITHER OF THOSE, THAT IS FINE. SO, WHAT THEY ARE TRYING TO DO IS MODERNIZE THE BUILDING AND MAKE IT LOOK A LITTLE BIT MORE IN TUNE WITH THE TWO BUILDINGS THAT ARE NEXT TO IT.

THE TWO BUILDINGS THAT ARE NEXT TO IT ARE CONCRETE PRECAST CONCRETE PANELS IS WHAT THEY WERE BUILT OUT OF. SO THEY WISH TO COVER UP THIS EXISTING MATERIAL WHICH IS A UNIQUE KIND OF BRICK CALLED IRON SPOT BRICK AND IT COMES IN A VARIETY OF COLORS. AND THE COLORS COME FROM THE CHEMICAL CHANGES WITHIN THE IRON WHEN THE BRICKS ARE MADE. WHEN THEY ARE FIRED.

AND THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT COLOR SCHEMES OF THE BRICK CURRENTLY ON THE BUILDING TO CREATE DIMENSION AND STYLE AND WE AGREE THAT THE BUILDING COULD POTENTIALLY USE SOME MODERNIZING BUT WE DO NOT BELIEVE THAT COVERING THE BRICK IS THE WAY TO DO IT. WE ARE 100% AGAINST COVERING THIS BRICK WITH A METAL PANEL OR ANY KIND OF SYSTEM WE WOULD BE 100% AGAINST PAINTING THIS BRICK BECAUSE IT IS NOT THE TYPE OF BRICK THAT YOU WANT TO PAINT IT IS UNIQUE AND SPECIAL AND DESERVES TO BE PRESERVED AND SHOWCASED RATHER THAN HIDDEN BEHIND WALLS. AFTER VISITING THE BUILDING IN PERSON BECAUSE I WANTED TO CHECK ON THE YOU KNOW, STATUS OF THE BRICK, THE PART OF THE BUILDING THAT LOOKED THE MOST OUTDATED WERE THE LIMESTONE SEALS UNDER THE WINDOWS, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE ANY EXISTING PHOTOS YOU COULD PUT UP. THOSE LOOK LIKE THEY HAVE SEEN BETTER DAYS. THOSE COULD BE REPLACED. WITH WINDOW SEALS. YES. I MIGHT HAVE SOME.

>> CAN YOU HELP US OUT FOR A SECOND, CAN YOU TRY TO ZOOM IN ON MAYBE THE MIDDLE UPPER PHOTO OR THE TOP LEFT PHOTO?

[02:05:03]

>> THAT'S BETTER. >> AND YOU MAY BE SCREWED IT OVER TO WHAT WOULD BE MY LEFT SO YOU CAN SEE THE TOP TWO LEFT PHOTOS , THERE WE GO, THAT'S IT, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> SO WE SEE THE WHITE BAND UNDER THE WINDOWS THAT IS THE LIMESTONE SEAL OF THE WINDOWS. AND THAT IS VISIBLY CRACKING IN MANY LOCATIONS ALL AROUND THE BUILDING. AND THIS PICTURE DOESN'T QUITE DO IT JUSTICE BUT IT DOESN'T , THE COLOR JUST DOESN'T MATCH SO ARE THERE THINGS THAT CAN BE DONE TO CHANGE THE LOOK OF THIS BUILDING, YES ABSOLUTELY, BUT IS IT COVERING THE BRICK, NO IT IS NOT. ANOTHER AREA THAT WE THOUGHT MIGHT BE CHANGED IS THE TRIANGULAR-SHAPED GLASS OF VESTIBULES IN THE CENTER OF THE ENDS OF THE BUILDING. DO YOU HAVE ANY OF THOSE? DO YOU THINK?

>> ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, SORRY THIS RIGHT HERE.

>> AND NO. IT'S ON THE OTHER END I WILL SHOW YOU. I WILL

GIVE YOU ONE. >> I THINK WE SHOULD JUST SCOOT THIS PHOTO IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT?

>> TOP RIGHT. >> SORRY. THERE YOU GO. CAN YOU

SCOOT OUT FOR US? >> LEAVE IT RIGHT THERE. THEY WILL ZOOM OUT. THERE WE GO, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> SO THESE ARE ENTRY VESTIBULES ON THE WEST AND EAST ENDS OF THE BUILDING. THEY DEFINITELY GIVE A CERTAIN TIME PERIOD VIBE TO THEM. YOU KNOW IF THERE WAS SOMETHING THAT WE COULD SPEND MONEY ON THE BUILDING TO MODERNIZE IT AND IMPROVE IT I THINK THIS MIGHT BE ONE OF THE AREAS THAT WE SHOULD FOCUS ON IF WE WERE BUILDING A NEW BUILDING THEY WOULD CERTAINLY CONSIDER METAL PANELING AS A MATERIAL AND WE HAVE APPROVED IT IN MANY OTHER LOCATIONS. BUT COVERING UP A BRICK BUILDING THAT HAS SO MUCH ARCHITECTURAL DETAIL, AND THE UNIQUENESS OF THE COLORS, AND THE VARIETY, IS JUST NOT SOMETHING THAT WE CAN SUPPORT. WE ARE IN FAVOR OF THEM APPROVING THE PROPERTY. CHANGING AND ADDING PERGOLAS AND ADDING OUTDOOR AMENITIES. POTENTIALLY CHANGING ALL THE WINDOWS TO YOU KNOW THESE EXTERIOR FEATURES TO MODERNIZE THOSE. BUT AS PART OF THIS PROPOSAL RIGHT NOW, WE CANNOT SUPPORT IT. WHATSOEVER. AND I HATE TO HAVE TO DO THIS BUT I RECOMMEND YOU DENY THIS PROJECT BECAUSE IT TAKES AWAY FROM THE ARCHITECTURAL INTEGRITY OF THE BUILDING TO COVER UP SUCH A

BEAUTIFUL BRICK. >> THINK YOU STUFF, COMMISSIONERS, COUNCILWOMAN PLEASE?

>> SO I DROVE BY THIS AREA JUST TO SEE WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE BECAUSE IT IS SUCH , I LOOKED ON GOOGLE MAPS FIRST JUST TO SEE THE PROPERTY ITSELF AND I UNDERSTAND THE TWO BUILDINGS THAT ARE NEXT TO IT ON THE EAST AND WEST, THEY ARE UNIQUELY DIFFERENT WHICH IS FINE, THAT'S GREAT, SO FOR ME THE MONOTONY OF HAVING THREE BUILDINGS LOOK THE SAME EXACTLY THE SAME AND TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, I THINK IT LOOKS IF YOU ADD THE METAL SHEETING IT LOOKS LIKE A BINDER MINIUM, I MEAN IT LOOKS AND REMINDS ME THAT I'M SORRY IT'S JUST MY PERSONAL OPINION BUT TO COVER AND I TEND TO AGREE THAT COVERING BEAUTIFUL BRICK IS JUST A BEAUTIFUL BUILDING, I COULD NOT BELIEVE THE DETAILS IN THE BRICK ITSELF AND ALL THE UNIQUENESS TO IT. SO I DON'T MIND DIFFERENT LOOKING THINGS NEXT TO OTHER, I DON'T MIND THAT AT ALL. AND I DON'T DISAGREE UPDATING THE BUILDING IN DIFFERENT WAYS. BUT TO COVER THAT BEAUTIFUL BRICK GOODNESS GRACIOUS, I JUST DON'T LIKE IT. AND I DON'T LIKE THE METAL CLADDING AT ALL. JUST THAT'S

MY TWO CENTS. >> I ALSO HEARD YOUR SUGGESTION ONE OF THE SUGGESTIONS THAT WAS OFFERED AND AGAIN I'M NOT AN ARCHITECT BUT WAS TO PAINT IT WHICH I THINK THE OWNER AND EVEN MYSELF IS OPPOSED TO THAT. SO THIS WAS SORT OF THE ALTERNATIVE TO BRING IT IN A LITTLE BIT MORE MODERN. JUST FOR CONTEXT, SPACE ALL OVER INDIANAPOLIS AND THE EMPHASIS IN CARMEL AND AS I THINK SOMEBODY MENTIONED ONE OF THE PRIOR PRESENTATIONS THAT THERE IS A LOT OF OFFICE SPACE AND IT'S VERY COMPETITIVE AND AS PART OF THAT, AS MORE AND MORE

[02:10:03]

>> I UNDERSTAND CLASS A CLASS B, CLASS C TENANTS AND UNDERSTAND THAT COMPLETELY. BUT, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT WORK LIVE PLAY, THE AMENITIES THAT PEOPLE OR WE HAVE HEARD IS COUNSEL PEOPLE ARE COUNSEL WOMEN AND MEN IS THAT THEY WANT AN INDOOR GYM, THEY WANT THE AMENITIES, THE WALK ABILITY, AND SOME MODERN TOUCHES TO THE BUILDING TO, BUT I THINK WHAT WE'VE BEEN HEARING AND YOU ARE THE EXPERT, WHAT WE HAVE BEEN HEARING IS THEY WANT THE AMENITIES AND I THINK OF THE BUILDING LOOKS NICE WHICH IT DOES LOOK NICE MAYBE WITH SOME UPDATES ADDING THOSE EXTRA AMENITIES WITHIN THE BUILDING WOULD PROBABLY DRAW MORE TENANTS IN, YOU ARE THE EXPERT ON THAT SO YOU CAN TALK TO THAT.

>> THEY HAVE ADDED FITNESS CENTERS AND AMENITY CENTERS AND OUTDOOR BLOCK PATH AND ALSO PUTTING GREEN SO THEY'VE DONE A GREAT JOB WITH THAT PART OF THIS IS JUST HOW DO YOU BRING THIS BUILDING SORT OF UP TO THE MODERN AGE? SO I'M HAPPY TO PROVIDE THEM WITH ANY INPUT THAT YOU GUYS HAVE.

>> BASED ON THIS CONVERSATION AND I DON'T THINK EVERYBODY HAS WEIGHED IN SO MAYBE I AM JUMPING THE GUN BUT I DON'T THINK INSTEAD OF DENYING THIS I WOULD LIKE TO SEND IT BACK JUST FOR MORE DISCUSSION TO SEE WHAT CAN BE DONE THAT YOU CAN BRING BACK WITH SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN SUPPORT THAT WOULD JUST BE

MY RECOMMENDATION. >> TO STAFF.

>> GO AHEAD. >> IS THAT SOMETHING YOU WOULD BE WILLING TO DO? I'M NOT SENSING THERE IS A LOT OF SUPPORT FOR WHAT IS CURRENTLY BEING PROPOSED. BUT I THINK THERE WAS SOME REALLY GREAT SUGGESTIONS ABOUT FIXING THE WINDOW SEALS AND WHICH ALSO MIGHT BE A LOT LESS COSTLY, I DON'T KNOW BUT I IMAGINE YOU KNOW IF YOU WERE ACTUALLY TO PUT IN THIS HUGE INVESTMENT INTO THE BUILDING THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING, I WOULD IMAGINE THAT IT WOULD INCREASE THE RENT AND WOULD BE PASSED ON TO THE TENANTS AS HIGHER RENT COSTS WHICH THAT MIGHT NOT BE DEEMED SO FAVORABLE SO THERE MIGHT BE A LESS EXPENSIVE WAY TO UPDATE THIS BUILDING SO MAYBE GIVING YOU MORE TIME TO WORK WITH RACHEL.

>> THAT WOULD BE GREAT, I GUESS SO I CAN PASS THE MESSAGE ALONG TO BE CLEAR, METAL PANEL SYSTEM IS OFF THE TABLE, IS THAT

CORRECT? >> OFF THE TABLE.

>> JUST TO CLARIFY THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO PAINT THE BRICK.

>> NO PAINTING THE BRICK OR METAL PANEL, THIS IS THE KIND OF BRICK THAT OLD INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS ARE MADE OUT OF. AND THAT'S THE LOOK THAT WE ARE TRYING TO RE-CREATE IN MIDTOWN.

I MEAN WE WOULD JUST BE GOING SO FAR BACKWARDS TO COVER THIS UP TO CHANGE IT. TENANTS COME AND GO AND AS I SAID FOR PREVIOUS THING TONIGHT, WE WERE WORRIED ABOUT WANTING THE BUILDING TO LOOK GOOD. THE BUILDING MAKES THE STATEMENT AND THE TENANTS ON THE INSIDE CONTAINED ALL THEY WANT ON THE INSIDE BUT THE OUTSIDE NEEDS TO SPEAK CARMEL.

>> ON A MUCH LIGHTER NOTE, FUN FACT, MY DAD USED TO OCCUPY AND HAD HIS FIRST OWNED LAW FIRM ON THE THIRD FLOOR IN THIS BUILDING. AND, HE LIKES TO JOKE THAT HE WAS SO POOR AT THE TIME THAT HE HAD TO GO TO HIS NEIGHBOR'S OFFICE TO BORROW LAW BOOKS. HIS NEIGHBOR WAS A GUY THAT YOU ALL KNOW, JIM BRAINARD. YES, ON THE THIRD FLOOR OF THIS BUILDING. A GAZILLION YEARS AGO. AND DIDN'T MEAN TO STEP ON YOU.

BUT I'VE BEEN BITING MY TONGUE THIS WHOLE TIME.

>> I CAN CONCUR WITH ALL THE COMMENTS. I THINK IT CREATES A MONOTONY. CLADDING THE BUILDING AND DOESN'T , IT DOESN'T MAKE THE BUILDING LOOK UNIQUE, I THINK I AM NOT IN FAVOR OF IT, WOULD AGREE WITH RACHEL'S RECOMMENDATION ALSO BECAUSE CERTAIN TIMES I'M FAMILIAR WITH THIS AREA WHEN THE SUN HITS THAT, THAT CAN BE JUST ABSOLUTELY BLINDING SO, WHEN YOU ARE READY FOR A VOTE, I WILL MAKE MY MY WILL MOVE THAT WE DEFER THIS TO THE NEXT COMMITTEE MEETING PENDING PETITIONER WORKING WITH STAFF TO COME UP WITH A SUITABLE

OPTION. >> WE CAN JUST TABLE IT, RIGHT?

TABLE IT TO THE NEXT MEETING? >> WE WILL JUST TABLE IT TO THE

[02:15:03]

TO MAKE SURE. >> YOU CAN JUST TABLE IT SO IT SOUNDS LIKE WE ARE CONTINUING TO OUR NEXT COMMITTEE HEARING IF YOU WANT TO CONTINUE TO WORK WITH STAFF, WE WOULD BE HAPPY TO HAVE YOU AT OUR NEXT COMMITTEE MEETING WHAT IS THE

DATE OF THAT? >> THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 7.

>> SO YES. FEEL FREE TO COME THEN. IT WILL BE MORE MEN HERE.

ANY OF YOU GUYS NEED OFFICE SPACES? LET ME KNOW. ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH. >> APPRECIATE IT.

>> I WILL READ AND DOCKET NUMBER PC-2024-00162 THIRD SHOT PICKLE BALL, A DLS, DESIGN APPROVALS FOR SITE AND MINOR EXTERIOR BUILDING MODIFICATIONS TO RETROFIT AN INDUSTRIAL BUILDING TO A PICKLE BALL FACILITY. I HAVE HEARD OF THIS AND I THINK IT'S TAKING ON. THE SITE IS LOCATED AT 4400 WEST 96TH STREET, UNIT 150. IT IS ZONED I WANT INDUSTRIAL AND IS NOT LOCATED WITHIN AN OVERLAY ZONE, FILED BY CHRIS BRATCHER AND BETTER ENGINEERING ON BEHALF OF THE OWNER, DUSTIN , I DON'T WANT TO BUTCHER YOUR NAME.

>> I THINK WE SHOULD TRY. DEGUEVARA?

>> I'M GLAD I DID NOT TERRIBLY EMBARRASS YOU OR ME. THE

PETITIONER HAS THE FLOOR. >> DUSTIN DEGUEVARA REPRESENTING THIRD SHOT PICKLE BALL. WITH ASSOCIATES AND CRISP BADGER FROM BADGER ENGINEERING. IF IT'S ACCEPTABLE I WOULD LIKE TO TELL YOU A LITTLE BIT ABOUT US, BEFORE I HAND IT OFF TO THESE TWO GENTLEMEN TO GO OVER THE DETAILS OF OUR REQUEST, THAT IS , YOU HAVE BEEN INCREDIBLY PATIENT. FEEL FREE TO KEEP US HERE ALL NIGHT.

>>'S THIRD SHOT WAS CONCEIVED IN COLORADO AND IT'S A PRIVATE INVESTMENT GROUP THERE IS SEVEN CURRENT MEMBERS, ALL VERY AFFLUENT IN THE TENNIS AND PICKLE BALL ARENA, VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT THE SPORT. TWO YEARS AGO THESE INDIVIDUALS PUT TOGETHER A PRIVATE INVESTMENT GROUP CALLED THIRD SHOT WITHIN THE LAST COUPLE YEARS WE HAVE OPEN TWO LOCATIONS IN COLORADO.

ONE IN LONGMONT, COLORADO AND ONE IN WHEAT RIDGE, COLORADO WHEAT RIDGE IS THE LARGEST IN INDOOR PICKLE FACILITY WITHIN THE STATE. NOT SHORTLY THEREAFTER WE DECIDED THAT THEY WOULD DETERMINE THE FORMULA THAT WE ARE USING WAS VERY SUCCESSFUL IN THE MARKET AND THEY HAVE EXPANDED AND ARE CURRENTLY DEVELOPING A LOCATION IN RENO AND WE ACTUALLY HAVE A GRAND OPEN IN EVANSVILLE NEXT WEEK. THE MASTERMIND HELP PUTTING THIS FORMULA TOGETHER, HAS MANAGED AND OWNED A TENNIS FACILITY IN DENVER FOR 25 YEARS. SO WE'VE GOT A LOT OF GREAT PLAYERS BEHIND US, WE ARE ALSO VERY EXCITED AND PARTNERED WITH RICK WITH KINSEY HERE LOCALLY, HE IS NOW BECOMING ONE OF OUR TEAM MEMBERS FOR THIS LOCATION. SO CURRENTLY WE ARE THE LARGEST PRIVATELY HELD NON- FRANCHISE OPERATION SO, A LITTLE BIT ABOUT OUR OPERATION, WE ARE LOOKING TO TRANSFER THIS OVER TO 15 INDOOR COURTS. WE ARE GOING TO MAKE THIS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC. THERE IS A MEMBERSHIP FEE FOR HEAVY USERS THAT WANT TO BE THERE EVERY DAY. A COUPLE THINGS, WE WILL BE OFFERING LEAGUE PLAY TOURNAMENT PLAY, AND OF COURSE A RENTAL ON A DAILY BASIS. A COUPLE OF OTHER PIECES WE WILL BE OPEN 365 DAYS A YEAR. FROM HOURS OF OPERATION 7 AM TO 10 PM EVERY DAY. ASIDE FROM THAT WE WILL BE OFFERING BEER, WINE AND MINOR CONCESSIONS. WE WILL BE MAKING TWO VERY SIZABLE CONFERENCE ROOMS AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC AND FOR MEMBERS OF FOUR EVENTS. CORPORATE BUILDING AND WHATNOT. ON TOP OF THAT WE WILL HAVE A FULL-TIME PLAYERS LOUNGE. WITH ADDITIONAL SEATING THROUGHOUT THE FACILITY. AND THERE WILL BE OTHER SUPPLEMENTAL OPTIONS AS FAR AS ENTERTAINMENT, CORN HOLE, PING-PONG, ALL THE OTHER FUN STUFF. SO, IN A NUTSHELL THAT IS THIRD SHOT AND WE APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY. ANY QUESTIONS BEFORE I HAND OVER THE MICROPHONE?

>> WE WILL LET STAFF FILL US IN ON ANYTHING, WHAT IS THAT?

OKAY, YES. PLEASE. YES. >> I WILL LET THE TECHNICAL GUYS IN. LET'S HEAR THE REST OF THE DETAILS.

>> WE ARE LIKE PICKLE BALL, LET'S PLAY.

>> YOU SAID WINE AND BEER. >> THEN THERE WERE THREE, SO

[02:20:02]

BUT I JUST WANTED TO COVER FIVE OR SIX BULLET POINTS AT A HIGH LEVEL FOR TECHNICAL QUESTIONS, CERTAINLY CRISP BADGER, BADGER ENGINEERING IS HERE TO HELP US IN THAT REGARD, SO EXTERIOR WAS THE PRIMARY COMPONENT THAT WE ARE ALTERING, WOULD JUST BE IT'S NOT VERY GOOD, IS IT? THERE WE GO.

>> YES, HANG STILL. THEY WILL DRIVE. THERE WE GO.

>> SO THE PRIMARY COMPONENT EXTERIOR -WISE THAT WE ARE HERE REQUESTING PERMISSION TO CHANGE WOULD BE TO ADD WHAT WOULD BE 14 SPACES OF PARKING RIGHT HERE DIRECTLY ACROSS FROM AND IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE EXISTING 15 SPACES THAT ARE ALREADY IN PLACE. DETERMINATION HAS BEEN THAT THERE IS NO EFFECT TO THE DRY OR WET DETENTION SO WE GO RIGHT UP TO THE EDGE AND IT SHOULD BE A SIMPLE CONSTRUCTION JOB IN THAT REGARD. THE OTHER COMPONENT OF THE EXTERIOR CHANGE WOULD BE AT THIS POSITION HERE, WHICH I BELIEVE THERE WITH ME, SEE IF I CAN PULL IT UP QUICKLY. SO, THIS POSITION HERE IS PRESENTLY AND OVERHEAD DRIVE INDOOR, INDUSTRIAL DRIVE INDOOR THAT WE BE CONVERTED TO AN EXTERIOR VESTIBULE RETURNING FROM THE BUILDING BY ABOUT SIX OR EIGHT FEET, SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE.

FOR A REAR ENTRY POINT IN ADDITION TO THE FRONT ENTRY POINT OF THE BUILDING ITSELF. THE EXISTING RAMP WOULD BE ADJUSTED TO ADA COMPLIANCE. FROM A GRADE STANDPOINT. SO THOSE MAKE UP THE TWO PRIMARY EXTERIOR CONDITIONS THAT WE ARE LOOKING TO CHANGE. WITH THAT OF COURSE, CAME A NUMBER OF ADDITIONAL ITEMS AS WE TALKED THROUGH WITH LANDSCAPING AND THE SIGNAGE WE ARE IN THE APPLICATION SO IT IS IN. IN THE- WORKS. AND WE WOULD BE LOOKING FOR SIGNAGE ON THIS SPACE OF THE BUILDING. THERE WOULD BE A HANDFUL OF DIRECTIONAL SIGNS FOR PURPOSES OF EGRESS AND TRAVEL. AND THEN, SMALL LOGOTYPE SIGNAGE AT THAT VESTIBULE POSITION AS WELL.

LIKE I SAID THAT IS IN APPLICATION PRESENTLY, WE HAVE TALKED TO THE ARBORIST ON RESPECT TO THE ADDITION OF TREES THAT NEED TO BE ADDED. MOST OF WHICH ARE IN THIS QUADRANT KIND OF THIS LOWER SOUTH EAST SECTION AND THEN ACROSS 96TH STREET, WE'VE GOT THE NUMBER OF THE SPECIES ETC.

THAT PUT THIS INTO COMPLIANCE. AND SIGNAGE, PARKING, REAR PARKING. ALTHOUGH AN EXTERIOR CHANGE, SHOULD BE STAYED AND A CLOSE-UP FOR THE PARKING WOULD LOOK AT BOTH LOCATIONS, BOTH FRONT AND BACK. THERE WE GO. I GOT IT. THUMBNAIL EACH OF THESE PAGES HOPEFULLY I CAN FIND THEM QUICKLY, RIGHT? SO THIS REPRESENTS THE REAR OF THE BUILDING. THAT VESTIBULE THAT I WAS SPEAKING OF IS APPROXIMATELY RIGHT THERE. WHAT IS RIGHT NOW, PRESENTLY THAT DRIVE IN BAY STAGING AREA FOR TRUCKS AND SUCH, WE WOULD STRIVE FOR 30 SPACES, THREE ROWS OF 10. WE HAVE WORKED THROUGH WITH THE STAFF TO MAKE SURE THAT IT COMPLIES WITH ALL THE SETBACKS AND THE DISTANCES AND EVERYTHING ELSE. SO, 30 ALONG WITH WHAT WOULD BE 29 SPACES IN FRONT, THERE IS ROUGHLY ABOUT ANOTHER 10 SPACES HERE THAT THE LANDLORD IS PROVIDING US ON A RESERVE BASIS. REALLY REPRESENTS EASILY THE MAJORITY OF WHAT WE WOULD EVER NEED ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS. FOR THOSE EVENINGS AND/OR OVERFLOW MOMENTS WHICH WE WOULD CERTAINLY HAVE ON OCCASION FOR TOURNAMENTS AND SUCH. THE AS YOU CAN TELL IF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE BUILDING, IT IS ABUNDANTLY PARKED AND UNDERUTILIZED AND IF YOU GO BY THERE ON ANY PARTICULAR WEEK DAY YOU WILL SEE THAT THE PARKING LOT IS PROBABLY ONE THIRD TO ONE QUARTER UTILIZED SO FOR

[02:25:04]

TRANSFORMER. THANK YOU TECHNICAL ADVISOR. TRANSFORMER AND THEN LEAD UP TO THAT REAR ENTRY POINT. SO, LET ME, I THINK THAT'S EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO COVER EXTERIOR WISE.

YES. IT IS. >> DO YOU GUYS HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD BEFORE I LET STAFF BRING US UP TO SPEED?

>> I THINK WE ARE GOOD. THANK YOU. GO AHEAD STAFF.

>> THEY COVERED IT ALL VERY WELL, THEY WANTED TO ADD MORE PARKING CLOSER TO WHERE THERE ENTRY WOULD BE WHICH IS ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE BUILDING. THERE REALLY ISN'T A PATH THROUGH THE BUILDING FORGETTING TO YOUR TENANT SPACE. IT IS TRULY ON GOING TO THAT NORTHERN PARKING LOT. AT THE NORTHWEST CORNER OR, IT'S ALL THE WAY IN THE BACK. SO THAT'S WHERE I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE SIDEWALKS WERE PROPERLY YOU KNOW, MADE AND ALIGNING SO THAT PEOPLE COULD WALK FROM WHEREVER THEY MAY FIND A PARKING SPACE WHICH THERE ARE PLENTY DOWN ON THE SOUTH END OF THE BUILDING, BUT UNDERSTAND THAT THEY WANT TO UTILIZE THIS SPACE AS BEST AS POSSIBLE AND THAT THEY DON'T NEED THE DOCK AREAS WITH THIS TYPE OF USE. SO, WE ARE SUPPORTIVE OF THAT, THE PARKING SPACES ON THE WEST SIDE WILL NEED A CONSENT TO ENCROACH, THROUGH THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT AND THEY WILL WORK WITH THEM ON THAT APPROVAL.

THEY DO NEED A SIGNED VARIANCE BECAUSE MAYFLOWER PARK DRIVE IS NOT A PUBLIC STREET, IT'S A PRIVATE STREET SO THAT IS A COMMON VARIANCE THAT PEOPLE SOMETIMES NEED. AND SO WE ARE SUPPORTIVE OF THIS PROPOSAL AND RECOMMEND APPROVAL SUBJECT TO FINALIZING ALL COMMENTS ON PROJECT .

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. DO WE HAVE, GO AHEAD.

>> JUST A QUICK QUESTION, WITH THE, AND THIS IS MINOR, WITH THE GARBAGE BINS, YES. DUMPSTER ENCLOSURES, ARE THOSE PART OF

THE , YES. >> YES. THAT IS PART OF OUR PURVIEW AND APPROVAL, THERE IS ONE DUMPSTER OUT THERE THAT IS NOT ENCLOSED RIGHT NOW, AND THEY WILL HAVE TO WORK WITH THE LANDLORD TO GET THAT ENCLOSED AS WELL.

>> PERFECT WELL I WILL JUST SAY, I AM ALL FOR PICKLEBALL

SO. >> THAT'S WHAT WE LIKE TO

HEAR. DEBBIE? >> I MOVED TO APPROVE .

>> I MOVE THAT WE APPROVE SUBJECT TO STAFF MEETING STAFF'S OUTSTANDING TERMS AND CONDITIONS.

>> YES, I CAN TAKE A SECOND ON THAT.

>> I WILL SECOND. >> ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS BEFORE WE VOTE

ON THIS THIS EVENING? >> RACHEL ARE YOU ANY GOOD AT

PICKLEBALL? >> I WAS A RACQUETBALL PLAYER

SO PROBABLY NOT. >> WE CAN GIVE LESSONS TO

ANYONE. >> OKAY, I CALL MIKE AS MY PARTNER AND I'M TAKING YOU AND ALEXIA AND WE WILL SEE HOW THIS GOES. OKAY, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF COMMISSIONER MARY "DUBBIE" BUCKLER'S MOTION? ANYONE OPPOSED TO DOESN'T LIKE PICKLE BALL? IT APPEARS EVERYONE HAS IT, THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE AND THANKS FOR HANGING IN THERE AND BRING YOU SOMETHING GREAT.

>> THANK YOU, MUCH

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.