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>>> WELCOME TO THE MONDAY, JANUARY 6TH, 2025, FINANCE, UTILITIES, AND RULES COMMITTEE MEETING. THE PURPOSE OF THE MEETING IS TO DISCUSS A NUMBER OF ORDINANCES LISTED ON OUR
[a. Ordinance D-2740-24; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Amending Chapter 2, Article 1, Sections 2-1, 2-3, 2-6, 2-10, 2-12, 2-13 and 2-14 of the Carmel City Code; Sponsor(s): Councilors Green and Aasen. ]
PUBLICLY NOTICED AGENDA.FIRST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA IS ITEM A ORDINANCE D-2740-24.
I THOUGHT WE'D TALK, THIS SYNOPSIS IS ORDER CLARIFYING PURPOSE AND DUTIES OF COMPONENTS OF GOVERNMENT. I THOUGHT WE WOULD HAVE A BRIEF DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS ITEM.
ZACH, WE'LL TALK THROUGH SOME OF THE ITEMS AND WE CAN MAYBE WORK THROUGH SOME CHANGES AND THAT CAN BE PRESENTED AT OUR NEXT FINANCE COMMITTEE MEETING SO WE CAN GET THIS BACK TO THE COUNCIL. RYAN, YOU STATED YOU HAD A COUPLE OF CHANGES YOU WANTED TO TALK THROUGH ON THIS PARTICULAR ORDINANCE, OR ANY OTHER MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE WANTED TO BRING THOSE ITEMS UP NOW?
>> SURE. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.
THE IDEAS KIND OF GOING THROUGH THIS AND LOOKING AT IT, OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVE GIVEN US A BACKGROUND OF WHY AND HOW THIS EMPOWERS YOUR ROLE AS SECOND CLASS CITY TO KIND OF FOLLOW STATUTE AND PREPARE DOCUMENTS AND STRUCTURES THE RIGHT WAY, WHICH I DON'T HAVE ANY CONCERNS THERE. BUT JUST LOOKING THROUGH IT AS WE GO KIND OF LINE BY LINE, I'M ENSURING AS WE BUILD THIS NEW STRUCTURE WITH THE NEW CONTROLLER, AS IT'S BEEN DEFINED, THAT WE AREN'T TAKING ANY OF THOSE AUTHORITIES AWAY FOR CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL IN THE SHORT TERM. SO PLACES WHERE WE'RE CREATING KIND OF A NEW STRUCTURE WHERE DEPARTMENTS CAN PRESENT TO YOU REQUESTS FOR TRANSFERS BETWEEN BUDGET LINE ITEMS, THOSE TYPES OF THINGS THAT WE STILL ENSURE KIND OF IN THIS FIRST YEAR THAT WE'VE GOT COVERAGE FOR CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL, AND I'VE GOT SOME KIND OF JUST TWEAKS, LANGUAGE- WISE, THAT WE CAN WORK LEGAL WITH, IF YOU WANT TO GET DEEPER INTO THE WEEDS, BUT WOULD LOVE FOR THIS TO COME BACK IN A PROCESS WHERE WE CAN ALLEVIATE KIND OF THOSE STRUCTURES INTERNALLY FOR YOU BUT ENSURE WE'RE TAKING CARE OF THAT APPROVAL PROCESS AND GIVING THE COUNCIL THE INFORMATION WE NEED AS WE GO THROUGH THIS TRANSFER PROTOCOL FOR THE FIRST TIME FRESH WITH THESE NEW CHANGES THE RIGHT WAY.
>> CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT, ZACH, ABOUT THE COMPONENTS OF GOVERNMENT CHANGES, IN PARTICULAR, ANY CHANGES TO APPROVAL OR TRANSFER AUTHORITIES IN THIS? OR ISIS MAINLY REMOVING THE CLERK TREASURY AND REPLACING IT WITH THE LER'S OFFICE?
>> THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN, AND MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE. IT DOES BOTH, FRANKLY.
THE TOP PRIORITY WAS MOVING THE CONTROLLER OUT OF A SEPARATE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT WHERE IT WAS JUST THERE WITH THE CLERK AND THIS FISCAL BRANCH AND MOVING THAT UNDERNEATH THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH.
AND THEN KIND OF AT THE SAME TIME, SOME CLEAN- UP IN TERMS OF THE LIST OF CITY DEPARTMENTS AND, YOU KNOW, KIND OF CLARIFYING AS WHERE IT ALLOWS IN LAW, STATE LAW, WHERE THE MAYOR APPOINTS THOSE DEPARTMENT HEADS.
THERE WERE OTHER THINGS IN TERMS OF SOME CHANGES ON TRANSFERS, THINGS LIKE THAT THAT I WANTED TO TALK TO COUNCIL ABOUT, BUT THOSE, I BELIEVE, ARE ALL IN THE OTHER --
>> IN THE OTHER ORDINANCE. THIS ONE IS REALLY MOVING THE CONTROLLER LANGUAGE IN WHOLE OVER TO ANOTHER PART OF OUR CODE AND THEN THOSE DEPARTMENT AND DEPARTMENT HEAD CLEAN-UPS.
>> BECAUSE AT THE TIME THE ORIGINAL ORDINANCE ADDRESSES FOUR BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT.
ONE WAS THE FISCAL BRANCH SIGNING PRIOR TO US BEING A SECOND CLASS CITY OF ACTUALLY HAVING AN ELECTED CLERK TREASURER, VERSUS A CONTROLLER.
I DIDN'T HAVE A TON OF HEARTBURN RELATED TO 2440.740. I THINK A LOT OF THE COUNCILS TO SPEAK FOR THE COMMITTEE, BUT AT LEAST MINE WE'RE MORE FOCUSED ON 2741.
IN 2740, ORDINANCE 2740, THERE WERE NO CHANGES RELATED TO DEPRECIATION SCHEDULES,
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HOW CAPITAL ASSETS WERE HANDLED, CAPITAL LEASES, CAPITAL ISSUANCE OR ISSUANCE OF CAPITAL LEASES OR STRUCTURES AROUND CAPITAL LEASES. WAS THIS ALL PRETTY MUCH JUST REMOVED FROM THE CLERK'S SECTION AND MOVED TO THE CONTROLLER'SSECTION? >> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.
>> WORD FOR WORD AS WELL AS, YOU KNOW, THE EXISTING LANGUAGE BEING IN GAAP COMPLIANCE, JUST MOVING IT OVER AS IS.
>> ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMITTEE FOR ZACH ON 2740?
>> YEAH, ONE MORE, AND THIS MIGHT BE MORE FOR SERGEY AND THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT.
THERE'S THE SECTIONS 3 THROUGH 6 AT THE END OF THE CLERK ORDINANCE THAT'S BEING LEFT, AND IF YOU GO TO THE LAST PAGE, IT'S LINES 557 THROUGH 572, WONDERING IF SIMILAR LANGUAGE EXISTS IN THE DEPARTMENT LANGUAGE THAT WE'RE MOVING OR IF THERE'S A REASON WE DIDN'T TAKE THAT OVER, IF THERE'S ANOTHER SECTION JUST IN THE CODE?
>> BECAUSE THOSE WERE THE ONLY FEW ITEMS LEFT UNDER THE CLERK'S SECTION. OR ACTUALLY, UNDER THE FISCAL, DIVISION 3 FISCAL BRANCH SECTION THAT'S NOW BEING RETITLED "THE CLERK. "
>> SO IF YOU LOOK KIND OF AT THE END OF THE CLERK'S SECTION, IT'S 557 THROUGH 572, AND IT'S JUST THE LANGUAGE THAT'S LEFT OVER IN THE OLD CLERK SECTION, WHEN WE'RE TAKING ALL OF THE OPERATIVE LANGUAGE AND MOVING IT TO THE NEW SECTION, JUST VERIFYING THAT WE'VE GOT THE RIGHT KIND OF END OF SECTION LANGUAGE ATTACHED TO IT TO ENSURE THAT WE'VE GOT COMPLIANCE WITH OLD AND NEW ORDINANCE
THERE. >> YEAH, WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT WE LOOK AT THE CODE ENTIRELY AND REMOVE ANY REFERENCES FROM CLERK TREASURER AS WELL, AND ANY INCONSISTENCIES WE'LL COME BACK TO YOU ON THAT. THIS IS A CATCH- ALL PROVISION, AS YOU KNOW, IT JUST SAYS THAT IF THERE ARE ANY INCONSISTENCIES BETWEEN PRIOR ORDINANCES, NULL AND VOID, AND THIS LANGUAGE WILL CONTROL.
SO THAT'S WHAT IT DOES. IT DOESN'T REALLY ELIMINATE ANY OTHER LANGUAGE IN THE CODE SECTIONS THAT ARE NOT AFFECTED BY THIS ORDINANCE SPECIFICALLY. BUT IT'S A GOOD POINT, COUNSELOR LOCKE, THAT WE CAN GO THROUGH THE ENTIRE CODE IN THIS PARTICULAR SECTION OF THE CODE AND MAKE SURE THAT CLERK TREASURER IS NO LONGER A THING IN A SECOND CLASS
CITY. >> AND TO VERIFY, TOO, THE GOAL OF JUST THIS QUESTION WAS TO ENSURE THAT THOSE PROVISIONS THAT ARE STAYING, NOT BEING AMENDED, STAYING WITHIN THE CLERK'S SECTION, MAKE IT INTO THE NEW FISCAL SECTION THE RIGHT WAY AS WELL.
>> EXACTLY. THE SECTION OF THE CODE THAT ÷÷ADDRESSES CLERK TREASURER FOR FIRST CLASS CITY AND CLERK FOR THE SECOND CLASS CITY IS THE SAME.
SO IT TALKS IN THE ALTERNATIVE, OBVIOUSLY A CLERK TREASURER HAS SOME FISCAL RESPONSIBILITIES AND MAYBE THAT'S WHY IT WAS CALLED FISCAL BRANCH BEFORE. AND SECOND CLASS CITY, FISCAL RESPONSIBILITIES MOVE TO YOU AS COUNCIL, AND IT'S BOTH THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH AND A FISCAL BRANCH, REALLY, CLERK DUTIES CHANGE SUBSTANTIALLY FROM FIRST CLASS CITY TO SECOND CLASS CITY, SO THAT REFERENCE ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE TO REMOVE COMPLETELY, BUT FISCAL BRANCH, SO TO SPEAK, BUT AS FAR AS A REFERENCE TO THE CODE SECTION, IT IS CORRECT FOR BOTH BECAUSE IT TALKS ALTERNATIVE.
>> SO IF WE GET THAT ANSWER, WHAT'S THE COMMITTEE'S WISHES ON HOW WE HANDLE THIS TODAY IN COMMITTEE, ORDINANCE 2740-24, FOR THE COMPONENTS OF GOVERNMENT? I WAS PLANNING ON NOT TRYING TO MOVE THIS UNTIL NEXT MEETING, BUT THIS ONE'S MORE SIMPLER THAN THE ISSUES, I THINK, THE COUNCIL AND COMMITTEE HAS WITH
>> NOW I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING COUNSELOR LOCKE AND A CONVERSATION I HAD WITH YOU EARLIER, MOST OF THE PROBLEMS ARE IN 2741 WHERE IT'S TRANSFERRING AUTHORITY WHERE THE COUNCIL MIGHT HAVE.
I'M PULLING UP AND I REALLY DON'T SEE ANY EXAMPLES OF 2740-24 REALLY CHANGING ANYTHING÷÷SUBSTANTIATIVE, LIKE WAS SAID EARLIER. MORE OF IT'S JUST A REVISING OF THE CODE, SO AS I LOOK THROUGH
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IT, I DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH MOVING IT TONIGHT.>> YEAH, I AGREE. THIS SEEMS TO ME TO BE CLEANING UP AND MORE JUST UPDATING OUR RECORDS RATHER THAN CHANGING ANYTHING OF AUTHORITY.
>> AND I WOULD AGREE, TOO, AND ÷÷JUST TO GIVE IT A LITTLE MORE CONTEXT ON HOW I LOOKED AT THIS. I PULLED UP THE STATE STATUES TO ENSURE THE LANGUAGE, MOVING FROM THE CLERK DERIVED FINANCIAL EMPOWERMENT OF THE THIRD CLASS ÷÷CITY TO THE SECOND CLASS AND IT ÷÷SEEMED TO FIT THAT. I DO HAVE, IF WE ARE GOING TO MOVE IT TONIGHT, JUST A COUPLE OF TWEAKS, WE'VE GOT SOME GENDERED PRONOUNS IN THERE, AND JUST SHIFTING THOSE BACK TO THE NOUN THAT THEY'RE APPLYING TO, SO WHERE IT SAYS HE OR SHE, JUST SAYING THE CONTROLLER, LIKE ONLINE 65, AND ONLINE 56, WHERE WE REMOVED THE SERVE AT HIS PLEASURE AND MOVE TO HER PLEASURE OF JUST CHANGING, AGAIN, THE GENDER PRONOUN TO THE MAYOR'S PLEASURE, THAT WAY WE CAN CLEAN THOSE UP. BUT I DON'T HAVE ANY CONCERNS ABOUT THIS ONE SPECIFICALLY BY ITSELF MOVING TONIGHT, IF THE OTHER ONE IS STILL GOING TO BE TALKED ABOUT.
>> SO IS SOMEBODY WILLING TO MAKE A MOTION TO MOVE THIS ORDINANCE D-2740-24?
>> WITH THOSE SUGGESTED CHANGES COUNSELOR LOCKE JUST SAID.
>> I WOULD SECOND COUNSELOR LOCKE'S
MOTION. >> I WOULD MOVE TO SEND THIS BACK WITH A POSITIVE RECOMMENDATION TO THE COUNCIL WITH THE TWEAKS TO THE PRONOUN
>> MOTION BY COUNSELOR LOCKE, ÷÷SECOND BY COUNSELOR GREEN, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? I JUST HAD ONE THING TO NOTE IF NOBODY ELSE HAD ANY COMMENTS OR ITEMS TO DISCUSS, IS THAT I THINK THIS SORT OF TRIGGERS A BIGGER LOOK THAT THIS COMMITTEE PROBABLY NEEDS TO LOOK AT AT OUR÷÷ENTIRE CODE TO WHERE THERE'S PROBABLY A LOT OF OUTDATED SECTIONS THROUGHOUT THE CODE, WHETHER IT'S POINTS THAT COUNSELOR LOCKE MADE AND/OR BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE CITY HAS CHANGED, I'LL BE, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S BECOMING A SECOND CLASS CITY OR JUST THE WAIT THAT WE FUNCTION, WE PROBABLY NEED TO START LOOKING AT SOME OF THESE ÷÷HOLISTIC CHANGES, SERGEY, TO THE CODE.
THAT'S SOMETHING MAYBE WE CAN TALK ABOUT, WE CAN START WORKING ON THIS YEAR. NO OVER DISCUSSION, I'LL CALL THE QUESTION, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF APPROVING COUNSELOR LOCKE'S MOTION, SAY AYE, OPPOSED
[b. Ordinance D-2741-24; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Amending Chapter 2, Article 6, Sections 2-301, 2-302 and 2-303, of the Carmel City Code; Sponsor(s): Councilor(s) Green and Aasen. ]
SAME SANE. MOTION CARRIES UNANIMOUSLY.NEXT WE WILL MOVE TO ORDINANCE D-2741-24.
BEFORE WE OPEN UP WITH THIS DISCUSSION, BECAUSE MAYBE IT WOULD ALLOW US TO MOVE ON FURTHER IN THE AGENDA IS I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH ZACH TODAY THAT, YOU KNOW, FEEDBACK FROM ÷÷WHAT I HAVE RECEIVED AT THE COUNCIL, I THINK THERE ARE CHANGES IN 2741 THAT ARE FUNCTIONAL AND PROVIDES MORE OVERSIGHT FROM DEPARTMENT HEADS' ABILITY TO TRANSFER, BUT THAT AT THIS POINT, I DIDN'T FEEL THAT THE COUNCIL WAS WILLING TO GIVE UP ANY OF ITS AUTHORITY RELATED TO APPROVALS, SO IF THE COMMITTEE'S OKAY, WE WILL HAVE ZACH GO BACK, AMEND THIS ORDINANCE WITH LANGUAGE THAT DOESN'T CHANGE THE APPROVALS OR AUTHORITIES OF THE COUNCIL, BUT STILL AFFECTS SOME OF THE CHANGES YOU NEED FROM AN OPERATIONAL STANDPOINT AND THEN REPRESENT THIS AND BRING THIS BACK TO THE NEXT FINANCE COMMITTEE.
>> DOES THAT MAKE SENSE FOR EVERYBODY? OKAY. THANK YOU.
SO THEN WE'LL LEAVE THIS UNLESS
[c. Ordinance D-2753-24; An Ordinance of the Common Council of Carmel, Indiana, Amending Chapter 2, Article 3, Sections 2-51, 2-52, 2-54 and 2-55 of the Carmel City Code; Sponsor(s): Councilor(s) Green and Taylor. ]
THE PRESIDENT CHOOSES TO CALL IT BACK, BUT WE'LL LEAVE THIS IN COMMITTEE THEN, AND WE'LL MOVE TO ORDINANCE D-2753- 24 RELATED TO THE PTO AND LEAVE POLICY. ZACH.>> THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. I'VE GOT A POWER POWERPOINT," SO I DON'T KNOW IF YOU NEED TO SWITCH INPUTS.
>> ZACH, ARE YOU PLUGGED IN? >> I AM.
>> CAN YOU SEE, I'LL PULL IT UP ON THE MONITOR.
>> ALL RIGHT. AGAIN, THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR, AND MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE. THE ORDINANCE CHANGES I HAVE HERE FOR YOU TODAY, CHANGES TO CITY CODE, DEAL IN A FEW DIFFERENT AREAS REGARDING DIFFERENT TYPES OF LEAVE POLICY FOR CITY EMPLOYEES.
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AND SO THESE AREN'T IN ORDER, NECESSARILY, OF THE AMENDMENT OR PARDON ME, OF THE ORDINANCE ITSELF, JUST, I THOUGHT I COULD EXPLAIN THEM A LITTLE BIT MORE EASILY IN THIS ORDER, IN TERMS OF BEREAVEMENT, MILITARY, PTO, AND THEN I THINK THERE'S ONE MORE TWEAK THAT'S NEEDED IN ORDER TO GET THIS THIS RIGHT. WHEN IT COMES TO BEREAVEMENT LEAVE, IN EACH OF THESE I'VE TRIED TO KIND OF JUST LAY OUT WHAT THE CURRENT POLICY IS, WHAT THE SITUATION IS, THE PROBLEM I'M TRYING TO FIX AND WHAT THE RECOMMENDATION IS HERE, THE PROPOSED POLICY.IN THE FIRST ONE HERE, WITH BEREAVEMENT LEAVE, CURRENT CITY CODE SAYS THAT EMPLOYEES RECEIVE UP TO THREE DAYS AND IT FLAT OUT SAYS IN CODE 22. 5 HOURS OF PAID LEAVE PER CALENDAR YEAR. THE ISSUES THAT WE EXPERIENCE WITH THIS, ONE, NOT ALL OF OUR EMPLOYEES WORK SEVEN AND A HALF HOUR SHIFTS, AND SO, FOR EXAMPLE, GOLF COURSE EMPLOYEES, THEY ARE EIGHT- HOUR SHIFTS.
SOME OF THE SHIFTS RUN BY OTHER DEPARTMENTS ARE MORE 12 HOUR IN NATURE OR EVEN THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, WHICH HAS 24-HOUR SHIFTS FOR THEIR SHIFT EMPLOYEES. ELSEWHERE, WHAT WE'VE KIND OF SEEN OVER THE YEARS IS, YOU KNOW, AN EMPLOYEE THAT UNFORTUNATELY EXPERIENCES ONE OF THOSE SITUATIONS WHERE THEY MIGHT LOSE MORE THAN ONE IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBER IN THE SAME YEAR.
IF THEY DID NOT PLAN ACCORDINGLY, THEY HAVE EXHAUSTED THEIR BEREAVEMENT PAY, BEREAVEMENT LEAVE WITH THAT FIRST DEATH AND HAVE NOTHING LEFT FOR ANY SUBSEQUENT DEATHS.
SO THE PROPOSED POLICY HERE CHANGE ESSENTIALLY JUST TAKES OUT THE WORD DAYS AND REPLACES THAT WITH SHIFTS. IT ALSO -- IT SAYS, INSTEAD OF PER YEAR, IT'S PER DEATH OF AN IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBER, SO, AGAIN, IF SOMEBODY UNFORTUNATELY HAS TWO OR THREE, THEY WOULD GET, YOU KNOW, UP TO THREE DAYS OFF FOR EACH ONE. WE ALSO EXPANDED THE DEFINITION OF IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBER IN THAT IT CURRENTLY DESCRIBES, YOU KNOW, BROTHER, SISTER, MOM, DAD, AUNT AND UNCLE, ALL OF THOSE, BUT THERE'S A SITUATION WHERE, YOU KNOW, THERE COULD BE PEOPLE INSIDE OF YOUR ACTUAL HOUSEHOLD, WHICH MAY NOT MEET ONE OF THOSE DEFINITIONS, AND SO WE'VE JUST EXPANDED IT TO INCLUDE ANYBODY ELSE THAT RESIDES IN THAT SAME HOUSEHOLD.
I'LL MENTION, TOO, ORIGINALLY WE WERE GOING TO, I MEAN, OPENING UP THE BEREAVEMENT LEAVE, YOU KNOW, POSSIBLY DOES EXPOSE US TO MORE RISK, IN TERMS OF PEOPLE POTENTIALLY ABUSING THAT POLICY, BUT ALREADY IN LAW, IT ALLOWS THE ADMINISTRATION TO ASK FOR DOCUMENTATION IF DEEMED NECESSARY, SO I THINK WE HAVE THE RIGHT CHECKS IN PLACE.
IF THERE'S NOT ANY QUESTIONS, I'LL GO AHEAD AND MOVE TO THE SECOND --
>> I HAVE A QUESTION, MR. CHAIRMAN.
SO, ZACH, COULD YOU GO THROUGH WITH ME HOW EMPLOYEES WILL BE TREATED IF THERE'S DIFFERENT LENGTHS OF SHIFTS? SO DO WE HAVE -- ARE FIREFIGHTERS LIKE ON 24 HOURS?
>> THOSE WORKING I'LL SAY LIKE AT A FIRE STATION ARE 24-HOUR SHIFTS, WHERE AS MORE CENTRAL OFFICE, IT TENDS TO BE MORE OF A
NINE-TO-FIVE. >> SO I'M NOT SURE I CAUGHT ALL OF THE -- SO HOW DOES THAT WORK? SO A FIREFIGHTER WOULD BE OFF
>> OKAY. AND SO DO YOU HAVE ANY CONCERNS ABOUT HOW OTHER EMPLOYEES WILL VIEW THAT OR, YOU KNOW, THE EQUALITY, THAT KIND OF THING?
>> YEAH, I'LL SAY WE KIND OF ALREADY, FOR THE MOST PART, WE KIND OF ALREADY CARVE OUT THOSE 24-HOUR EMPLOYEES AND GIVE THEM KIND OF SEPARATE -- THEY ACCRUE THINGS DIFFERENTLY THAN OTHER EMPLOYEES ALREADY. YOU KNOW, THEY GET 30 DAYS OF SICK TIME, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER SWORN EMPLOYEE, WHETHER THEY'RE WORKING AN EIGHT-HOUR SHIFT, A 12- HOUR SHIFT OR A 24- HOUR SHIFT.
I FEEL LIKE I'M KIND OF RAMBLING, BUT I'LL JUST SAY THAT IN SOME INSTANCES, FIREFIGHTERS THAT WORK 24 HOUR SHIFTS RECEIVE THE EXACT SAME TYPE OF BENEFIT AS EVERY EMPLOYEE AND IN OTHERS, IT'S PAIRED DOWN A LITTLE BIT TO RECOGNIZE THAT THEY'RE WORKING A 24- HOUR SHIFT. MY THOUGHT IN NOT KIND OF PAIRING THIS DOWN FOR
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FIREFIGHTERS, BECAUSE IT COULD POTENTIALLY BE, YOU KNOW, THREE 24-HOUR SHIFTS WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT HOW POTENTIALLY THE DATES MIGHT FALL AND WITH THE ONE ON, ONE OFF, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AT MOST, LIKE THEM BEING PROBABLY OUT OF THE PICTURE FOR LIKE FIVE DAYS, WHICH YOU COMPARE THAT WITH A CIVILIAN EMPLOYEE WHO MIGHT BE THREE DAYS OF BEREAVEMENT AND TWO DAYS OF WEEKENDS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.IT KIND OF PUTS THEM ON PAR WITH THE REST OF EMPLOYEES.
>> OKAY. BUT, I MEAN, USING THAT LOGIC, THEN, A FIREFIGHTER COULD BE OUT SEVEN DAYS. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, SO, OKAY, ALL RIGHT, I JUST WAS CURIOUS IF YOU WERE AT ALL CONCERNED ABOUT HOW OTHER EMPLOYEES WOULD REACT TO THAT. SO, OKAY, THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. I HAVE A BUNCH OF QUESTIONS, BUT I'LL PROBABLY WAIT UNTIL THE END BECAUSE SOME OF THE CHANGES ARE PROBABLY RELATED IN FOLLOWING UP ON COUNCIL'S QUESTION ABOUT HOW IS EVERYBODY GOING TO BE IMPACTED WITH THESE CHANGES. SO.
>> AND I DIDN'T WANT TO MAKE A NOTE, THOUGH, IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT LEAVE THAT THEY'RE ALLOWED TO TAKE UNDER FMLA, FAMILY MEDICAL LEAVE ACT, OR A FAMILY MEMBER WHO'S PASSED AWAY. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THEIR ABILITY TO BE PAID DURING THAT LEAVE UNDER THE BEREAVEMENT
>> THE SECOND LEAVE POLICY CHANGE HERE IS ON THE TOPIC OF MILITARY LEAVE.
CURRENTLY TODAY, CITY CODE SAYS THAT EMPLOYEES RECEIVE UP TO 15 EIGHT- HOUR DAYS OF PAID LEAVE PER CALENDAR YEAR. AND AGAIN, IT'S VERY SPECIFIC, EIGHT- HOUR DAYS. THE ISSUE, AGAIN, IS NOT ALL EMPLOYEES WORK A SEVEN AND A HALF HOUR OR EIGHT-HOUR DAY, AND THIS HAS FREQUENTLY -- THIS CAME UP DURING UNION NEGOTIATION DISCUSSIONS AS A POTENTIAL ISSUE TO BE FIXED AND, FRANKLY, AT ÷÷THAT POINT IN TIME, THE PROPOSAL WAS TO INCREASE THE NUMBER OF PAID MILITARY LEAVE DAYS AFTER REALLY GETTING IN THE WEEDS, WE THOUGHT THE BETTER SOLUTION WAS TO SWAP OUT THE WORD -- SWAP OUT THE PHRASE EIGHT-HOUR DAYS WITH SHIFT. THE SITUATION WE WERE ENDING UP WITH BEFORE, IF YOU TOOK A FIREFIGHTER WHO, LET'S SAY THAT NORMALLY THEY WERE GOING TO BE WORKING ON FRIDAY, THEY HAD SATURDAY OFF AND SUNDAY, BUT BASED UPON WHEN THEY WERE EXPECTED TO REPORT FOR GUARD DUTY, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE OUT FRIDAY, THEY WERE OUT SUNDAY AND SO THEY'RE MISSING IN THAT SITUATION, 48 HOURS OF WORK IN ORDER TO GET PAID FOR THAT, THEY WOULD BE MORE OR LESS CASHING IN SIX TOTAL DAYS OF THEIR MILITARY LEAVE IN ONE WEEKEND, AND SO, AGAIN, WE TRIED TO GET THIS TO TRY TO MAINTAIN THE PARTY WITH OTHER TYPES OF EMPLOYEES, SO TO CHANGE FROM EIGHT-HOUR DAYS TO SHIFTS. AND I REALIZE THAT YOU CAN IGNORE THE END OF THE PROPOSED POLICY THERE. I DIDN'T PROOFREAD, NOTHING TO DO WITH BEREAVEMENT, EVEN THOUGH THE FINAL POINT THERE IS STILL TALKING ABOUT BEREAVEMENT. JUST DIDN'T PICK IT UP WHEN I WAS MAKING MY EDITS.
>> JUST A PROCESS QUESTION, DID ÷÷YOU LOOK AT KIND OF LAST YEAR'S POLICY AND STRUCTURE, LIKE WOULD THIS CHANGE HAVE HAD A MASSIVE IMPACT FINANCIALLY OR STRUCTURALLY ON THE LIVES OF INDIVIDUALS AND WHAT THAT FINANCIAL BALANCE CHANGE WOULD LOOK LIKE FOR US AS A CITY?
>> IN TERMS OF THE -- EVERYTHING I HAVE IS ANECDOTAL, BASICALLY. IT WAS DURING NEGOTIATIONS, THE FIRE UNION EXPRESSING THAT THIS WAS AN ISSUE OF SOME OF THEIR ÷÷MEMBERS NOT GETTING FULL PAY FOR THIS OR HAVING TO USE PTO OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT IN ORDER TO GET PAID FOR THOSE DAYS. IN TERMS OF A FISCAL IMPACT, THE ASSUMPTION THERE WOULD REALLY WEIGH ON WHETHER OR NOT, LIKE, AGAIN, FOR FIRE DEPARTMENT, WHETHER OR NOT WHEN SOMEBODY TAKES OFF FOR MILITARY LEAVE, WHETHER THEY HAVE TO CALL IN SOMEBODY ELSE TO COVER THAT SHIFT, AND THIS ALONE DOES NOT REALLY CHANGE THAT. AND AGAIN, IF
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SOMEBODY -- IF A FIREFIGHTER'S CHOICE BEFORE WAS EITHER GOING UNPAID OR USING THEIR PTO BECAUSE THEY DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH MILITARY LEAVE, IF THEY'RE USING PTO, IT'S NOT A FISCAL IMPACT. I WOULD PROBABLY ARGUE, TOO, ON ÷÷THE -- IF THEY WERE GOING UNPAID, WE'VE BUDGETED FOR THE FULL COST OF THEIR POSITION, THERE WOULD BE AN INCREMENTAL COST.WE HAVE ALREADY COVERED IT IN THE BUDGET. WE BUDGETED FOR THE ANNUAL SALARY.
>> YEAH, JUST -- I MEAN, IF YOU'VE GOT 24 HOUR SHIFTS AND YOU CAN COVER 15 OF THEM, WE'RE TALKING 360 HOURS TOTAL THAT'S COVERED WITH JUST 45 REGULAR EIGHT- HOUR DAYS NOW THAT ARE -- WHICH I'M NOT SAYING IS HERE NOR THERE, IF YOU'RE SPREADING IT OUT. IF YOU'RE TAKING NOW 15 DAYS AND THAT DAY IS THEN OFFSET BY A DAY OR TWO DAYS OFF, YOU'VE GOT BASICALLY 45 MAN HOURS OF TIME COVERED BY LEAVE THAT WASN'T COVERED BEFORE, 30 HOURS PER PERSON. BUT IF IT'S NOT A BIG ISSUE, I DON'T HAVE ANY CONCERNS WITH IT.
>> AND REALLY, IT WAS -- THE ONLY ISSUE WE WERE HEARING WAS OUT OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, WHERE THE NOTION OF AN EIGHT-HOUR DAY DOES NOT FIT IN VERY WELL WITH THEIR 24- HOUR
SHIFTS. >> YOU HIT ON THE BUZZ WORD, BOTH COUNSELOR LOCKE AND YOU, THE FISCAL IMPACT.
SO OVERALL, AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE FISCAL IMPACT TO THE MEMBER, AS YOU JUST KIND OF CLARIFIED, THE ONLY INDIVIDUALS THIS WILL POTENTIALLY IMPACT ARE THOSE INDIVIDUALS, LIKE THE FIRE DEPARTMENT BECAUSE MOST, YOU KNOW, MOST GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES, EIGHT-HOUR DAYS IS KIND OF STANDARD FOR MILITARY LEAVE, BUT HOW DO KIND OF, YOU KNOW, THE 15 DAYS NORMALLY, YOU KNOW, MOST INDIVIDUALS IN THE GUARD, WHICH ÷÷WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, HAVE TO DO 15 DAYS A YEAR, AND THEN ONE WEEKEND A MONTH, SO FOR LIKE FIREFIGHTERS, NOT ONLY DO THEY HAVE TO DO THEIR 15 DAYS A YEAR, WHICH ARE COVERED BY THIS, BUT THEY ALSO HAVE TO DO ONE WEEKEND A MONTH, WHICH POTENTIALLY COULD BE A CONFLICT WITH WHATEVER THEIR SCHEDULE IS.
>> YOU KNOW, SO, YEAH, SO DOES THIS TAKE -- WELL, OBVIOUSLY THIS DOESN'T TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THAT TYPE OF
IT IS -- IT IS EXACTLY CURRENT LAW, JUST WITH THE EIGHT HOURS REPLACED WITH THE --
>> AND NORMALLY SOMEONE WHO'S LIKE A MILITARY WEEKEND CONFLICTS WITH A WORK WEEKEND.
THEY JUST WORK THAT WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT TO PROBABLY RESCHEDULE THAT.
>> THAT'S RIGHT. MOST OF OUR CIVILIAN- ISH EMPLOYEES ARE, YOU KNOW, NINE TO FIVE, MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY. OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT 100% THE CASE CITY WIDE.
>> ALL RIGHT. AND I THINK YOU JUST TOUCHED ON IT, THERE IS NO FISCAL IMPACT TO THE CITY WITH THIS CHANGE?
>> REALLY, I MEAN, THERE'S THE POTENTIAL THAT WOULD ASSUME THAT PRIMARILY FIREFIGHTERS OR I THINK -- I THINK POLICE DEPARTMENT ALSO DOES 12- HOUR SHIFTS. AND SO YOU MIGHT HAVE HAD PEOPLE WHO WERE USING THEIR -- I MEAN, ASSUMING THAT THEY WERE STILL GOING TO GET PAID, THEY WERE USING PTO TO COVER THIS BEFORE.
NOW THEY'RE USING -- NOW THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO USE THE MILITARY LEAVE MORE FULLY. WE DON'T ANTICIPATE MUCH OF ANY OF A FISCAL IMPACT UNLESS SOMEBODY WAS GOING WITHOUT PAY
BUT THAT'S A QUESTION I HAVE OVERALL, IS WHAT'S THE FISCAL IMPACT TO THE CITY, NOT JUST MILITARILY BUT ALL OF THESE CHANGES.
GO AHEAD, WE'LL PROBABLY GET TO THAT.
>> THERE'S A HANDFUL OF CHANGES THAT I'M REQUESTING ON AN AREA ÷÷OF PTO, AND I'VE TRIED TO MAKE THIS AS BITE-SIZED AS POSSIBLE, IF YOU WILL.
THE FIRST AREA DEALS WITH HOLIDAYS AND HOW PTO ACCRUES, AND SO CURRENTLY CITY CODE PROVIDES THE EMPLOYEES ACCRUE PTO, AND THAT'S TO BE USED FOR HOLIDAY PAY, VACATION PAY, AND SICK PAY.
AND THE WAY THAT THOSE ACCRUE, IT'S BASED UPON YOUR YEARS OF SERVICE AND SO SOMEBODY LIKE MYSELF WHO HAS LESS THAN FIVE YEARS OF SERVICE WITH THE CITY, I CURRENTLY ACCRUE 9 1/2 HOURS OF PTO PER PAY PERIOD.÷÷COMPARE THAT WITH SOMEBODY WHO'S BEEN WITH THE CITY FOR MORE THAN÷÷20 YEARS, THEY ACCRUE 13 HOURS PER PAY PERIOD. AND I HAVE A TABLE ON THE
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NEXT SLIDE THAT KIND OF LOOKS AT ÷÷THESE NUMBERS, AND I'LL GO THERE IN A MINUTE.THE ISSUES WITH HOW THIS WORKS TODAY, IT REALLY RELATES TO HOLIDAY PAY BEING A COMPONENT OF PTO. AND IT BECOMES ADMINISTRATIVELY BURDENSOME IN SEVERAL AREAS. ONE BEING THAT IF YOU'RE A NEWER EMPLOYEE, CHANCES ARE, AND ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE KIND OF STARTING IN NOVEMBER AND DECEMBER, THEY'RE GOING TO BE DAYS, EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE MADE YOU AN OFFER THAT THIS IS YOUR PAY, THERE ARE GOING TO BE DAYS THAT THEY JUST DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PTO ACCRUED YET TO GET PAID FOR THEIR HOLIDAYS. WE ALSO HAVE AN ISSUE TODAY WHERE DUE TO KIND OF INTERPRETATION OF HOW WE OUGHT TO MANAGE HOLIDAY PAY RELATED PTO, WHERE DEPARTMENTS ARE PAYING THEIR EMPLOYEES DIFFERENTLY WHENEVER THERE'S A HOLIDAY. SO THIS WILL KIND OF STREAMLINE -- WE'LL HAVE VERY CLEAR DIRECTION. THIS IS HOW EVERY EMPLOYEE THAT DID NOT WORK A HOLIDAY WILL BE TREATED AND THIS IS HOW EVERY ÷÷EMPLOYEE THAT DID WORK A HOLIDAY WILL BE TREATED. AND THEN THE OTHER ISSUE IS TODAY THAT BECAUSE PTO IS THOUGHT TO INCLUDE HOLIDAYS, EMPLOYEES ARE REQUIRED TO USE PTO IF THEY TAKE A HOLIDAY OFF. EVEN IF THEY'VE ALREADY WORKED GREATER THAN 37 1/2 OR 40 HOURS IN A WEEK, IT'S JUST EXPECTED THAT IF YOU DID NOT WORK CHRISTMAS DAY, EVEN IF YOU ALREADY HAVE 40 HOURS, YOU STILLSTILL HAVE TO CASH IN A PTO DAY THAT DAY. THE LAST KIND OF THING DRIVING HERE AS PART OF THE UNION NEGOTIATIONS, WE HAVE OFFERED, IT WAS REQUESTED AND WE'RE OFFERING SOME INCREASED LEAVE TIME FOR SWORN AND SO WE WANTED TO KIND OF MAINTAIN SOME EQUITY FOR OUR CIVILIAN EMPLOYEES, THE PROPOSED POLICY REDUCES PTO ACCRUALS, AND AGAIN, I HAVE A SLIDE THAT I'LL GO TO NEXT THAT SHOWS THIS ALL NUMERICALLY, BUT IT REDUCES HOW THEY ACCRUE THE PTO, BUT INSTEAD THE TRADEOFF IS THEY NOW GET TEN PAID HOLIDAYS AS WELL AS TWO FLOATING PAID HOLIDAYS.
AND PER THE TABLE ON THE FOLLOWING PAGE I'LL GO TO NOW, ALL EMPLOYEES WILL SEE AN INCREASE OF 1. 6 DAYS PER YEAR. AND SO, AGAIN, THIS LEFT- HAND SIDE IS TRYING TO SHOW HOW EMPLOYEES CURRENTLY ACCRUE, AND THE RIGHT- HAND SIDE IS HOW THEY WOULD GOING FORWARD, AND SO I'LL JUST USE THE FIRST LINE THERE AS AN EXAMPLE.
SO SOMEBODY WITH ZERO TO FIVE YEARS OF SERVICE, ACCRUES 9 1/2 HOURS OF PTO PER PAY PERIOD. YOU SAY THERE'S 26 PAY PERIODS IN A YEAR, THAT ENDS UP BY 247 HOURS OF PTO.
IF YOU DIVIDE THAT BY 7 1/2, YOU END UP WITH 32.9, ALMOST 33, AND ACTUALLY, THE DECIMAL THREE ÷÷REPEATS OUT AFTER THAT, SO IT'S 32.9333. WHERE I'D LIKE TO GO IS THAT, INSTEAD OF 9. 5 BECOMES 6.5, WHICH WHEN YOU TAKE THAT TIMES 26 EQUALS 169 HOURS PER YEAR OF PTO, CONVERT IT TO DAYS, DIVIDED BY 7.5, YOU END UP WITH 22 1/2.
BUT THEN WHENEVER YOU ADD IN THE 10 FIXED HOLIDAYS AND THE TWO FLOATING PAID HOLIDAYS, THAT TOTAL BECOMES 34.5.
COMPARING THE 34. 5 TO THE 32. 9 IS A 1. 6 DAY INCREASE OF LEAVE TIME FOR EMPLOYEES.
AND THAT SAME AMOUNT, THAT 1. 6 CARRIES THROUGH, WHETHER YOU'VE BEEN WITH THE CITY FOR HARDLY ANY TIME OR YOU'VE BEEN WITH THE CITY FOR 21 OR MORE YEARS. COUNSELOR GREEN.
>> ALL RIGHT. SEEMS LIKE I SAY THIS A LOT THESE DAYS. I WAS SURPRISED BY OUR PTO POLICY, AND THIS IS MY THIRD TERM. HERE I'M SURPRISED. BUT WHY -- I UNDERSTAND ON THE CURRENT, PROBABLY GIVES THE EMPLOYEES THE MOST FLEXIBILITY. YOU KNOW, COMPLETELY.
BUT IT JUST SEEMS REALLY NONSTANDARD FOR STATE AND OTHER MUNICIPALITIES WHEN OFFICES ARE ALL PRETTY MUCH SHUT DOWN ON CHRISTMAS DAY FOR SOMEONE TO EITHER BE FORCED TO DO PTO
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OR SAY I'M NOT GOING TO DO PTO, I'LL GO IN AND WORK WHEN THE ENTIRE CITY KNOWS THE OFFICE IS CLOSED ANYWAYS, SO IT JUST SEEMS JUST ODD. SO DO YOU KNOW WHY THE POLICY WAS KIND OF SET UP THIS WAY? PROBABLYNOT. >> I DO NOT. I SPECULATE THAT FOR EASE OF TRACKING IN THE -- IN OUR PAYROLL
SYSTEM. >> SO FINANCE, ACCOUNTING SIMPLIFIED IT.
>> I THINK SO. FOR EXAMPLE, TODAY, EVERY EMPLOYEE OF THE CITY HAS ACCRUED THREE DAYS OF BEREAVEMENT LEAVE.
AND THE IDEA THAT YOU ACCRUE BEREAVEMENT LEAVE DOESN'T REALLY MAKE SENSE BUT FOR TRACKING PURPOSES, THAT'S THE WAY IT'S LOADED IT.
EVERYBODY HAS 22 1/2 HOURS OF BEREAVEMENT PAY KIND OF SITTING THERE, WAITING FOR THEM TO APPLY AT SOME POINT THIS YEAR.
I THINK THE SAME IDEA PROBABLY HOLDS HERE WHERE IF YOU ARE ACCRUING HOLIDAY PAY THROUGHOUT THE YEAR BECAUSE IT'S PART OF PTO, THEN IT DOESN'T LOOK -- THEN IT'S NOT JUST SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO TRACK SEPARATELY. NOW, TODAY IS MLK JR. DAY, AND EVERYBODY GETS THAT PAID DAY OFF, AND IT'S MORE OF JUST AN OVERRIDING RULE IN THE PAYROLL SYSTEM AS OPPOSED TO HAVING ACCRUED IT.
MY PURE GUESS IS IT WAS FOR EASE OF ACCOUNTING ADMINISTRATION, BUT IT BECOMES VERY VERY DIFFICULT. AND COUNSELOR, FOR THE EXAMPLES YOU GAVE, WE DO HAVE EMPLOYEES THAT -- OOP, I DIDN'T SAVE ENOUGH TIME FOR THIS HOLIDAY, AND I'M NOT ALLOWED TO WORK.
I MEAN, CURRENT POLICY TODAY WOULD NOT ALLOW YOU TO WORK ON A HOLIDAY UNLESS YOUR SUPERVISOR REQUIRED THAT YOU COME IN AND SO IF YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PTO, YOU JUST DON'T GET PAID FOR A HOLIDAY TODAY.
>> WE ADDRESSED, WE MADE A BUNCH OF CHANGES AT CARMEL CLAY PARKS BECAUSE OF SOME OF THESE SIMILAR ISSUES.
BUT IT'S -- I WAS VERY INTERESTED IN OUR -- WHEN THIS WAS BROUGHT FORWARD, HOW OUR CURRENT PTO POLICY WAS ACCRUED AND WORKED. IT WAS VERY STRANGE TO ME.
YES, COUNSELOR.÷÷YES, YES. >> THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT, FOR ALLOWING ME TO ASK A FEW QUESTIONS, AND THANK YOU, COMMITTEE. ZACH, WHEN WE'RE DISCUSSING PTO PAY WITH THE ORDINANCE WITH OVERTIME FOR -- THE EASIEST ONE TO USE IS STREET DEPARTMENT, GIVEN TODAY'S SITUATION.
SO IF SOMEONE IS SCHEDULED NOT TO WORK OR NOT TO WORK ON HOLIDAY AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO WORK ON CHRISTMAS DAY, AND THEN THEY ACTUALLY COME IN AND THEY WORK AND PLOW, CAN YOU MAYBE -- AM I JUMPING AHEAD TOO MUCH HERE, FELLOWS? BECAUSE, I MEAN, IT JUST -- I KNOW THERE'S A POLICY FOR OVERTIME, I KNOW THERE'S A POLICY. SO I JUST WANT TO BE SURE THAT WE'RE -- THAT WE'RE MAKING SURE THAT THOSE EMPLOYEES ARE BEING COMPENSATED IN SUCH A WAY THAT THEY DESERVE.
>> SO THE WAY THAT COMPENSATION WILL WORK, AND LET'S -- AND IT REALLY DEPENDSON WHETHER YOU'RE AN EXEMPT EMPLOYEE, VERSUS A NONEXEMPT EMPLOYEE. BUT LET'S SAY NONEXEMPT FOR A MOMENT. IF TODAY IS A HOLIDAY, AND YOU WERE REQUIRED TO WORK, AND YOU'RE A NONEXEMPT EMPLOYEE, YOU WILL GET, ONE, SINCE YOU'RE A FULL- TIME EMPLOYEE, EVERY FULL-TIME EMPLOYEE WILL GET PAID FOR THAT HOLIDAY PAY, SO IT'S THE -- THE NORMAL PAYCHECK FOR THAT DAY, THEY'LL GET THAT, THE HOURLY RATE, THE NORMAL HOURS, THE 7 1/2.
NEXT, THEY WILL GET REGULAR PAY FOR, IF THEY WERE ACTUALLY WORKING THAT DAY, FOR THE NUMBER OF HOURS WORKED, THEY WILL GET PAID THE REGULAR WAGE FOR THOSE HOURS. THERE'S ALSO IN THE SALARY ORDINANCE TODAY, THE CONCEPT OF PREMIUM PAY, WHICH IS $15 AN HOUR FOR WORKING ON A HOLIDAY. ORIGINALLY, I -- I WAS WANTING TO AMEND THAT PREMIUM PAY OUT.
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HOWEVER, AND THIS IS WHERE I KIND OF HAVE SINCE LEARNED ABOUT HOW NOT ALL DEPARTMENTS MANAGE THIS THE SAME WAY, THERE ARE SOME EMPLOYEES TODAY, SOME DEPARTMENTS THAT IF THEY'RE WORKING A HOLIDAY, THEY BASICALLY ALREADY DO THAT TODAY. THEY CASH IN THEIR PTO.THEY WORK SEVEN AND A HALF AND THEY'RE GETTING THE -- THE PREMIUM PAY. SO THEY'RE ALREADY KIND OF GETTING TEE HREE TYPES OF PAY FOR WORKING TODAY. OTHER DEPARTMENTS DON'T ALSO PAY THAT PTO OUT, SO THEY'RE GETTING THE HOURS WORKED PLUS THE PREMIUM. WHEN IT COMES TO THE OVERTIME PIECE, THERE IS THE POTENTIAL THAT SOMEBODY MIGHT BE GETTING OVERTIME AS WELL. IF THEY END UP WORKING OVER 40 HOURS, IF THIS -- I MEAN, ASSUMING THAT THEIR BOSS DIDN'T SAY, HEY, BECAUSE YOU HAD TO COME IN ON THIS DAY, WHY DON'T YOU GO AHEAD AND TAKE ANOTHER DAY OFF, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
SOMEBODY COULD END UP POTENTIALLY GETTING OVERTIME AS WELL, BUT THAT EXISTS ALREADY TODAY. AND IF I CAN JUST CLARIFY, AND THAT IS FOR NONEXEMPT, FOR OVERTIME ELIGIBLE EMPLOYEES.
THE IDEA THAT FOR AN EXEMPT EMPLOYEE THAT IS ELIGIBLE FOR OVERTIME, AGAIN, BECAUSE THEY'RE A FULL- TIME EMPLOYEE, THEY'RE DEFINITELY GOING TO GET PAID FOR THE HOLIDAY.
IF THEY HAPPEN TO NEED TO COME INTO WORK THAT DAY FOR EXEMPT EMPLOYEES, WE HAVE A COMPENSATORY TIME OR COMP TIME, AND SO IF YOU'RE HAVING TO COME IN AND WORK SEVEN AND A HALF HOURS ON A HOLIDAY, THAT NOW BECOMES COMP TIME THAT YOU COULD USE AT ANOTHER POINT IN TIME DURING THE YEAR.
>> THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. ZACH, WOULD WE GO THROUGH THE HOLIDAYS THAT -- SO THERE'S TEN.
ARE YOU ABLE TO LIST THOSE FOR ME? I KNOW THERE'S SOME UNUSUAL ONES LIKE ELECTION DAY, BUT CAN WE GET CLEAR ON WHAT THE TEN ARE AND THEN THE TWO, COULD YOU GIVE ME THE DEFINITION OF THE TWO
FLOATING? >> YEAH, SO THE TEN ARE -- AND I'LL TRY TO DO THIS FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR TO THE END, SO OBVIOUSLY YOU'VE GOT -- YOU'VE GOT NEW YEAR'S DAY, YOU HAVE DR. MLK JR. DAY. YOU'VE GOT AFTER THAT, I DON'T THINK THE NEXT ONE IS UNTIL -- I DON'T THINK WE GET ANYTHING OFF FOR EASTER NOW. GOOD FRIDAY IS NOT AN OBSERVED HOLIDAY, SO WE'RE PROBABLY TALKING MEMORIAL DAY, AND THEN ÷÷FOURTH OF JULY.
>> ARE THESE BASED ON THE FEDERAL HOLIDAY SCHEDULE?
>> IT'S OUR EXISTING HOLIDAY SCHEDULE. BASICALLY THE ONES THAT WE OBSERVE TODAY, THOSE TEN HOLIDAYS.
>> I DON'T KNOW THAT WE GET -- I DON'T KNOW THAT WE GET -- I DON'T KNOW THAT WE GET PRESIDENTS' DAY AND COLUMBUS DAY OFF TODAY.
NOR DO WE GET ELECTION DAYS OFF.
>> IT IS NOT. NOT FOR THE CITY OF CARMEL.
SO YOU'VE GOT -- LET ME DO THIS AGAIN, SORRY. WE'VE GOT NEW YEAR'S DAY, MLK JR. DAY. THE NEXT ONE IS PROBABLY NOT UNTIL MEMORIAL DAY, AND THEN YOU'VE GOT FOURTH OF JULY.
YOU'VE GOT LABOR DAY. YOU'VE GOT TWO DAYS OFF FOR THANKSGIVING. TWO DAYS OFF FOR CHRISTMAS, AND I'VE FORGOTTEN ONE SOMEWHERE IN THERE.
VETERANS DAY, YEAH, SORRY, VETERANS DAY IS THE TENTH.
IT'S THOSE TEN. AS I WAS KIND OF PUTTING THIS TOGETHER, YOU KNOW, I KIND OF CONTEMPLATED WHETHER MORE DAYS, MORE ACTUAL HOLIDAYS, ANNOUNCED HOLIDAYS MADE SENSE.
IF YOU LOOK AT STATE EMPLOYEES FOR LAST YEAR, THEIR NUMBER WAS 15.
THEY WERE 15 PAID STATE HOLIDAYS.
I THINK KEEPING IT AT THE TEN THAT WE HAVE NOW AND ADDING FLOATING HOLIDAYS DOES SEVERAL THINGS FOR US.
ONE, IT WON'T REQUIRE US TO -- IF WE -- IF WE'RE ADDING KIND OF AN 11TH OR 12TH HOLIDAY, IT DOESN'T REQUIRE US TO KIND OF CLOSE CITY HALL AND STOP SERVING CITIZENS ON, YOU KNOW, IF WE WERE TO ADD ANOTHER
[00:45:03]
HOLIDAY. ALSO, IT ALLOWS US TO, IF YOUR RELIGIOUS PERSUASION IS DIFFERENT FROM MINE, YOU CAN CELEBRATE YOUR HOLIDAY ON YOUR DAY, AND I CAN CELEBRATE MY RELIGIOUS HOLIDAY ON MY DAY.WE'VE TRIED TO BE FLEXIBLE WITH THIS, AND REALLY, THOSE TWO FLOATING DAYS ARE VERY MUCH LIKE PTO EXCEPT THAT THEY DON'T ROLL OVER AT THE END OF THE YEAR.
IF YOU DON'T USE THEM, YOU'VE FORFEITED THEM.
BUT IN TERMS OF YOU'VE STILL GOT TO GET YOUR BOSSES PERMISSION TO TAKE THOSE DAYS.
WE DON'T WANT, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY IN THE SAME DEPARTMENT OBSERVING MAYBE THE SAME RELIGIOUS HOLIDAY, AND NOW WE'RE NOT ADEQUATELY STAFFED.
SO THE DEPARTMENT MANAGER WILL STILL NEED TO MANAGE THAT.
>> AND YOU HAD A SECOND QUESTION?
>> I DID, YEAH, THANKS. AND SO THE 1.6, THE RIGHT WAY TO THINK OF THAT IS 1. 6 DAYS, NOT SHIFTS, DAYS.
THANK YOU. AND WHAT IS THE LOGIC OR THE INTENT OF, YOU KNOW, GOING THROUGH ALL OF THIS, AND THEN ADDING ANOTHERDAY AND A HALF?
>> YEAH, REALLY THE GOAL OF ADDING A DAY AND A HALF IS TO TRY TO MAINTAIN SOME SORT OF EQUITY OR PARITY OF OUR CIVILIAN EMPLOYEES AS COMPARED TO SWORN, CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS DID RESULT IN EXTRA LEAVE TIME FOR SWORN, AND SO WE DIDN'T WANT OUR REGULAR CIVILIAN EMPLOYEES TO KIND OF FEEL LEFT BEHIND. I WOULD SAY ESPECIALLY COMING OUT OF, WITH UNION NEGOTIATIONS, OUR SWORN SAW SOME DESERVED, WELL DESERVED, BUT BIG INCREASES THAT WERE ABOVE KIND OF THE 3% COLA THAT WE APPLIED FOR CIVILIAN, AND JUST, AGAIN, NOT WANTING THEM TO FEEL LEFT
>> I HAVE A FEW MORE CHANGES TO THIS SECTION.
AND SO I'LL JUST HIT ON THOSE REAL QUICK.
AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, PTO IS MEANT TO COVER TODAY, HOLIDAY, VACATION AND SICK. HOWEVER, IF EXISTING LAW PROVIDES THAT IF AN EMPLOYEE HAS MORE THAN 150 HOURS OF PTO ON THEIR ANNIVERSARY, THE AMOUNT IN EXCESS OF 150 HOURS GETS TRANSFERRED TO THE SICK LEAVE BANK. IT ALSO PROVIDES THAT IN ORDER TO ACCESS THAT SICK LEAVE BANK, THEN YOU'VE GOT TO USE ENOUGH PTO FIRST SO THAT YOU ONLY HAVE 75 HOURS OF PTO LEFT. AND THIS HAS BEEN AN AREA WHERE I'VE HEARD EMPLOYEES GRUMBLE THE MOST ABOUT FEELING AS IF THEY'VE EARNED THAT SICK BANK, BUT THE WAY IT'S BEEN SET UP IS THEY CAN'T ACCESS IT.
AND SO THE PROPOSAL HERE IS TO REDUCE THAT -- OR ACTUALLY INCREASE BUT IT'S -- IT'S IN THEIR FAVOR WHEREAS CURRENTLY YOU HAVE TO HAVE 75 HOURS OR LESS BEFORE YOU CAN ACCESS THE SICK LEAVE BANK. WE'VE CHANGED THAT TO 100 HOURS, SO IT'S A SLIGHT INCREASE THERE. BUT, AGAIN, THEY GET TO KEEP MORE OF THEIR PTO BEFORE THEY CAN START ACCESSING THEIR PTO BANK. AGAIN, BECAUSE IT'S THE BIGGEST COMPLAINT IS THAT, YEAH, IT'S THERE. I'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO USE IT.
>> THERE YOU GO. ALL RIGHT, I ALWAYS HATE ASKING THIS QUESTION, AND A LONG TIME AGO, I USED TO GET CHASTISED FOR DOING IT SOMETIMES, JOKINGLY, BUT HOW DOES THIS COMPARE TO THE OTHER CITIES' MUNICIPALITIES?
>> IT'S A GREAT QUESTION. AND I COULD PUT TOGETHER SOMETHING THAT KIND OF EXPLAINS IT, BUT YOU'RE ALWAYS KIND OF TALKING APPLES AND ORANGES, I MEAN, FOR EXAMPLE, I LOOKED AT FISHERS, WHENEVER I WAS CREATING THIS. FISHERS DOES -- THEY HAVE TEN FIXED HOLIDAYS, TWO FLOATING HOLIDAYS.
HOWEVER, THEY DON'T GET SICK TIME.
THE IDEA IS THAT IF YOU'RE SICK, YOU'RE GOING TO STAY HOME AND YOU'RE KIND OF ON THE -- MORE OR LESS, THE HONOR SYSTEM, ININ OF THAT YOU WON'T ABUSE IT. AND I THINK YOU CAN KIND OF
[00:50:01]
PICK EACH MUNICIPALITY, AND FIND OUT, THEY JUST DO SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT A VERY EASY COMPARISON.I CAN SAY THAT WE DON'T APPEAR ÷÷TO BE TOO DIFFERENT THAN OUR PEERS, BUT AGAIN, IT'S NOT A GREAT APPLES-TO- APPLES COMPARISON, UNFORTUNATELY.
>> IN THAT LINE OF QUESTIONING, IS THERE ANY COMMUNITIES THAT JUST USE THE STANDARD, IF YOU'VE WORKED HERE THIS MANY YEARS, YOU HAVE FIVE VACATION DAYS THIS YEAR, THE NEXT -- OR OR WHATEVER, AFTER FIVE YEARS OF SERVICE, YOU GET TEN VACATION DAYS AND THEN YOU HAVE FIVE PERSONAL DAYS, AND OTHER THAN THAT YOU'RE NOT HAVING TO WORRY ABOUT ACCRUED PTO OR ANY OF
THIS? >> WHAT I HAVE SEEN IS MOSTLY ACCRUAL-BASED. SO YOU GET A LITTLE BIT EACH TIME, BUT EVEN HERE AT THE CITY, WE'RE NOT EXACTLY CONSISTENT BECAUSE, LIKE, FOR SWORN, THEY DON'T ACCRUE.
IT'S DAY ONE OF THE YEAR. HERE'S YOUR DAYS OF SICK LEAVE, AS OPPOSED TO YOU'RE ACCRUING IT OVER THE COURSE OF THE YEAR.
>> MM-HMM. OKAY. OH, YES, COUNSELOR LOCKE, GO AHEAD.
>> THIS HAS RAISED A LOT OF QUESTIONS FOR ME TO JUST UNDERSTANDING THE KIND OF WAY THAT LEAVE WORKS ON THE STATE SIDE, SPECIFICALLY, BUT DO WE HAVE LIKE A PAYOUT AT THE END OF PTO, IF THERE'S BANKED PTO?
>> WE DO. AND I CAN -- BASICALLY TODAY WHEN YOU LEAVE, YOU GET CASHED ÷÷OUT FOR ALL OF THE PTO THAT YOU HAVE. NOT SICK BANK, BUT ALL OF THE PTO. AS I MENTIONED ON THIS OTHER SLIDE, IF YOU HAVE MORE THAN 150 HOURS ON YOUR ANNIVERSARY, THEN THAT GOES AWAY.
IF YOU'RE A SMART EMPLOYEE, YOU WOULD PROBABLY TRY TO TIME YOUR DEPARTURE FROM CITY GOVERNMENT BEFORE YOUR ANNIVERSARY SO THAT YOU HAVE THE MAXIMUM NUMBER OF HOURS. I MEAN, YOU COULD POTENTIALLY HAVE 200 HOURS IN THERE WHERE YOU'RE ABOUT TO LOSE 50 OF IT AS IT ROLLS OVER TO SICK BANK, BUT TODAY IT'S JUST THE -- WHATEVER IS IN YOUR PTO, THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE ELIGIBLE TO GET CASHED OUT WHEN YOU
AND THEN WONDERING, DOES SICK TIME STAY ON THE BOOKS, THEN, IF YOU COME BACK TO CITY EMPLOYMENT, IS IT EARNED TIME?
>> THAT'S CORRECT. THE LEAVE TIME
DOES NOT. >> WONDERING ON THE HOLIDAY QUESTION, THE CONCEPT OF THERE BEING IN SOME DEPARTMENTS, A WAY WHERE YOU WORK YOUR REGULAR HOURS, AND YOU GET PAID YOUR REGULAR SALARY FOR THOSE HOURS PLUS THE PTO COVERAGE WHICH ÷÷GIVES YOU DOUBLE TIME, PLUS A PREMIUM OVERTIME CREATES KIND OF A TRIPLICATE INCENTIVE TO WORK HOLIDAYS, WHICH SEEMS ARBITRARY, SPECIFICALLY IF THERE'S NOT LIKE A POLICY THAT EVERYBODY IS DOING IT THE SAME WAY. I KNOW THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE HERE HAD THE REMOVAL OF THE AND MOVING TOWARDS AND I THINK WE MOVED THAT, DIDN'T WE? AND I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK BACK. I HAVEN'T THOUGHT ABOUT IT SINCE WE HAD THE CONVERSATION.
>> YOU'RE EXACTLY RIGHT. WE MADE A LAST- MINUTE, WE BEING COUNCIL, MADE A LAST- MINUTE AMENDMENT. MY DRAFT HAD STRUCK PREMIUM PAY FROM THE SALARY ORDINANCE. COUNCIL LEFT THAT IN, WHICH WAS PERFECT BECAUSE, ONE, IT WOULD HAVE MADE NEW YEAR'S DAY KIND OF SQUIRRELY, AND SO IT WAS GREAT THAT THAT WAS STILL IN EFFECT THERE. AND THEN ALSO, JUST SINCE COUNCIL'S LAST MEETING, I HAVE LEARNED THAT THERE ARE DEPARTMENTS THAT ARE APPLYING IT DIFFERENTLY. ESSENTIALLY THE WAY I HAVE THIS SET UP NOW, THE DEPARTMENTS THAT WERE ALREADY PAYING SOMEBODY'S PTO FOR A HOLIDAY AND PAYING THEIR HOURS WORKED AND GIVING THEM THE $15 AN HOUR PREMIUM PAY, THAT BASICALLY -- THAT EMPLOYEE IS NOT REALLY GOING TO SEE MUCH OF A BENEFIT ON A HOLIDAY BY WORKING BECAUSE THAT'S BASICALLY -- THEY'RE NOT GOING TO SEE AN IMPROVED BENEFIT BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEY WERE ALREADY DOING TODAY. AN EMPLOYEE --
>> BECAUSE PTO CAN NO LONGER BE USED ON THE TEN HOLIDAYS?
>> CORRECT. NOW IT'S JUST A PAID HOLIDAY FOR EVERY FULL- TIME EMPLOYEE.
COMPARED TO SOMEBODY WHO IS FOLLOWING KIND OF THE POLICY DIFFERENTLY WHEREAS THEY DID NOT -- THEY SAVED THEIR PTO FOR ANOTHER DAY, BASICALLY, AND THEY WERE WORKING ON A HOLIDAY, THEY GOT THE 7 1/2, THEY GOT
[00:55:03]
THE PREMIUM PAY, THEY'RE PROBABLY GOING TO -- THEY'RE GOING TO SEE A BENEFIT FROM THIS BECAUSE NOW THEY'RE ALSO GETTING THE PAID FOR THAT HOLIDAY. TO THE BEST I CAN TELL, WE'RE PROBABL LIKE 50/50 IN TERMS OF HOW. I MEAN, SOME DEPARTMENTS JUST DON'T FLAT OUT HAVE OVERTIME AS YOU WOULD EXPECT.STREETS AND OTHERS HAVE A LOT THIS TIME OF YEAR.
BUT OVERALL, ATAT -- THIS MEMORIALIZES THE EXISTING POLICY. AT BEST IT JUST DRAWS A LINE IN THE SAND AND SAYS WE'RE GOING TO TREAT EVERYBODY THE SAME GOING FORWARD.
>> I GUESS MY JUST FOLLOW UP THERE IS WE'RE LOOKING AT A -- DO YOU HAVE ENOUGH POWER AS YOU'RE CENTRALIZING THIS PROPERTY FOR SAID POLICY THAT APPLIES BROADLY, AND AS YOU LOOK AT TWEAKS MOVING FORWARD, IF WE MOVE THIS WHERE IT IS, THING ABOUT THE FLIP THERE, LIKE PTO IS PTO, IT'S PAID TIME OFF. IF THEY'RE NOT TAKING OFF, THERE BECOMES A MASSIVE LOOPHOLE, IF YOUR MANAGER IS APPROVING PTO, COMING IN GETTING DOUBLE TIME FOR THAT DAY, THERE'S A WAY TO CASH OUT THE SICK HOURS EARLY IN CERTAIN DEPARTMENTS OR STRUCTURES IF THEY'RE NOT FOLLOWING A SPECIFIC POLICY ON WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN TAKE A DAY OR NOT TAKE A DAY IF YOU'RE WORKING. I JUST WONDER, AS YOU THINK ABOUT IT, AS YOU LOOK AT IT, ENSURING THAT WE ARE TREATING EVERYBODY THE SAME AND CREATING KIND OF POLICIES THAT ARE OPERATIONAL, IF YOU WORK, IF PICTURING ADP PAYROLL SYSTEM, IF YOU'VE GOT A DAY WHERE YOU'VE GOT WORK HOURS AND YOU WORKED REGULAR TIME, THE ABILITY TO PUT PTO ON TOP OF IT SHOULDN'T OCCUR BECAUSE IT'S NOT PAID TIME OFF.
>> AND ACTUALLY, IF I CAN JUMP AHEAD A SLIGHT HERE.
THIS DOESN'T DIRECTLY ANSWER.÷÷THIS IS SOMEWHAT IN RESPONSE TO YOUR QUESTION HERE.
LET ME WALK THROUGH THIS LAST CHANGE. AND SO EMPLOYEE MUST HAVE COMPLETED THREE MONTHS OF FULL-TIME EMPLOYMENT BEFORE PTO CAN BE USED.
THIS PART IS A CONVERSATION FOR ANOTHER DAY.
AND I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND COUNCIL'S POSITION IN TERMS OF TRANSFERRING AUTHORITY, I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND AND APPRECIATE THAT POINT OF VIEW. I'LL Y I KIND OF FEEL LIKE TOO MANY OF OUR PERSONNEL POLICIES ARE IN LAW, AND SO WHEN IT COMES TIME TO -- I MEAN, TO EVERY POLICY, THERE IS SOME SORT OF EXCEPTION. WHEN IN LAW, IT SAYS THAT YOU ÷÷MUST HAVE COMPLETED THREE MONTHS OF FULL- TIME EMPLOYMENT, AND I KNOW THAT EXCEPTIONS HAVE BEEN MADE TO THAT POLICY. WE'RE NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH CITY CODE WHEN EXCEPTIONS ARE ÷÷MADE.
EVENTUALLY, I WOULD LIKE TO TALK TO COUNCIL ABOUT HOW DO WE KIND OF MORE PROVIDE LIKE A ROUGH FRAMEWORK IN CODE, BUT REALLY GIVE THE HR DEPARTMENT A LITTLE BIT MORE WIGGLE ROOM WHERE IT MAKES SENSE TO ALLOW EXCEPTIONS.
GIVEN THAT THAT'S NOT HAPPENING ANYTIME SOON, WHAT I HAVE TRIED TO DO HERE IS BASICALLY REDUCE THE THREE MONTH TO TWO MONTH BEFORE YOU CAN USE IT. EMPLOYEES HAVE EARNED THAT.
WE WANT EMPLOYEES TO HAVE A GOOD WORK/LIFE BALANCE.
WE DON'T WANT THEM TO BUILD UP A HUGE BALANCE OF PTO, AND SO WE FEEL LIKE JUST SHORTENING THAT THREE MONTHS TO TWO MONTHS WILL HELP US AVOID SOME EXCEPTIONS THAT MIGHT CURRENTLY BE CONTEMPLATED AS WELL AS, AGAIN, JUST LET EMPLOYEES USE A BENEFIT THAT THEY'VE EARNED.
>> AND I WOULD JUST FINISH YOUR SLIDES BEFORE WE ENTERTAIN ANYMORE QUESTIONS.
>> THE LAST SLIDE HERE IS I DO HAVE ONE AMENDMENT THAT I'M REQUESTING.
THIS IS REALLY JUST KIND OF SAYING MORE CLEARLY WHAT WAS IN THERE ORIGINALLY AS WELL AS I'VE KIND OF HAD THIS EPIPHANY ON HOW SOME DEPARTMENTS ARE CURRENTLY USING -- ARE CURRENTLY STACKING, IF YOU WILL, PTO PLUS HOURS WORKED, PLUS PREMIUM PAY FOR A HOLIDAY. IT KIND OF MORE MEMORIALIZES AND PUTS ALL OF THAT IN WRITING, SO AS IT READS TODAY, REALLY IT TALKS ABOUT THREE
[01:00:03]
DIFFERENT TYPES OF EMPLOYEES, WE HAVE FULL-TIME NONEXEMPT, WE HAVE PART-TIME NONEXEMPT AND HOW THEY WILL BE PAID, AND LASTLY, THEIR FULL-TIME EXEMPT EMPLOYEES HOW THEY'RE PAID.THE QUESTION HAS COME UP ABOUT POTENTIAL FISCAL IMPACT HERE. REALLY A LOT OF IT DEPENDS ON HOW THIS IS IMPLEMENTED AND MANAGED BY DEPARTMENT HEADS AND MANAGERS, THERE'S A PATH WHERE THERE HAS NO FISCAL IMPACT FOR SOME DEPARTMENTS THAT ARE ALREADY PAYING OUT PTO, HOW THEY ARE TODAY. THE ADDITION OF EXTRA HOLIDAYS PROVIDED THAT A DEPARTMENT DOES NOT HAVE TO CALL IN SOMEBODY TO REPLACE THAT PERSON BECAUSE THEY'RE NOW TAKING A HOLIDAY, THERE SHOULD NOT BE ANY FISCAL IMPACT THERE.
ANY FISCAL IMPACT FROM THIS WILL BE VERY MINIMAL, AND ONLY FROM THE DEPARTMENTS THAT ADMINISTER THEIR PTO DIFFERENTLY TODAY THAN OTHERS. WHERE THEY WILL NOW HAVE HOLIDAY PAY. MOST OF THOSE AREN'T OUR BIG -- IT'S OUR BIGGER USERS, IT'S DEPARTMENTS THAT ARE ALREADY PREDOMINANTLY WORKING HOLIDAYS TODAY THAT ARE ALSO PAYING OUT PTO, AND SO THE ONES THAT AREN'T WORKING AS MANY HOLIDAYS TODAY, IN MY MIND, THEY'RE KIND OF FOLLOWING THE RIGHT POLICY TODAY. YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SEE AN IMPACT BECAUSE THOSE AREN'T REALLY -- THEY'RE LIKE THE FINANCE DEPARTMENT AND HR. THEY'RE NOT ACCRUING HARDLY ANY OVERTIME TODAY OR WORKING HOLIDAYS, I SHOULD SAY.
>> IS COMP TIME PAID OUT FOR THE NONEXEMPT?
>> PER CITY CODE, IT IS NOT PAID OUT. AND JUST, AGAIN, THE LIMIT THERE IS EMPLOYEES MAY -- EXEMPT EMPLOYEES MAY ACCRUE UP TO 50 HOURS OF COMP TIME.
>> I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS TO ASK IF EVERYBODY'S -- SO FIRST IS DO WE HAVE AN HR HANDBOOK?
>> WE DO. WE HAVE -- THERE'S A HANDBOOK. I CAN'T RECALL IF IT'S A HANDBOOK OR EMPLOYEE MANUAL, BUT THERE IS A BINDER THAT NEW EMPLOYEES GET. IT'S ALSO AVAILABLE ONLINE. I KNOW THIS WASN'T YOUR QUESTION, BUT WE'RE GOING TO BE -- I WANTED TO START THIS THIS LAST YEAR, BUT JUST RAN OUT OF TIME.
WE'RE GOING TO BE GOING THROUGH THAT POLICY BY POLICY AND JUST SEEING IF IT MAKES
>> AND ALSO, INSTEAD OF HAVING A HANDBOOK, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A POLICY ON PTO.
WE'LL HAVE A POLICY ON HOLIDAYS, AND SO THAT WAY AS WE NEED TO, HEY, THIS ONE NEEDS ADJUSTED, WE'RE NOT PRINTING THE ENTIRE BOOK OVER AGAIN AND REPOSTING THE ENTIRE THING, YOU HAVE TO FIND WHERE WE MADE A CHANGE.
IT'S GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, WE'LL PUBLISH THEM ALL AS INDIVIDUAL POLICIES AND UPDATE INDIVIDUALLY AS NECESSARY.
>> SO, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE GIVE YOU A HARD TIME, THEY SAY, AT THE STATE WE ALWAYS DID THIS, I ALWAYS SAY AT THE PARK OR PRIVATE INDUSTRY, WE DO THIS, OR AT PARKS DEPARTMENT, SO, YOU KNOW, YOU HIT ON A POINT THAT SOME OF THESE VERY SPECIFIC PTO POLICY DETAILS ARE CODIFIED INTO LAW, SO IF THEY'RE NOT FOLLOWED, WE'RE NOT FOLLOWING CITY LAW, IN÷÷EFFECT, SO IN PARKS AND WHERE I ALSO SEE IN THE PRIVATE INDUSTRY, WHERE THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS WILL APPROVE AN HR MANUAL ANNUALLY OR AN EMPLOYEE MANUAL ANNUALLY, THAT WILL ÷÷CONTAIN THESE POLICIES, BUT YET,÷÷THEN IT PROVIDES THE HR DEPARTMENT AN EXECUTIVE ABILITY TO OPERATE WITHIN CERTAIN AREAS WITHOUT VIOLATING LAW, SO THAT ÷÷WAS MY QUESTION, IF THERE'S COMMUNITIES, AND MAYBE FOR SERGEY, THAT ADOPT AN EMPLOYEE
[01:05:06]
MANUAL OR AN EMPLOYEE HANDBOOK, AND THESE THINGS AREN'T CODIFIED INTO LAW, AND THE COUNCIL APPROVES THE EMPLOYEE HANDBOOK, THAT WOULD BE MY FIRST QUESTION.>> AND FRANKLY, MR. CHAIRMAN, WE'RE ON THE SAME PAGE, IN MY MIND, I WAS THINKING ABOUT DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO KIND OF MARRY THIS UP WITH THE ANNUAL PUBLICATION OF THE SALARY ORDINANCE IN TERMS OF THESE ARE THE PERSONNEL POLICY, THERE'S ALREADY SO MUCH THAT COMES IN FOR COUNCIL THAT TIME OF YEAR, COUNCIL REVIEWED ANNUALLY OR CHANGES ARE MADE.
>> JUST A REAL QUICK DETAILED QUESTION.
ON 50, WE PROBABLY NEED TO WRAP UP, 51, LINE 51, ITEM C THERE, ÷÷AN EMPLOYEE MUST WORK OR BE PAID LEAVE AN ENTIRE PERIOD IN ORDER TO ACCRUE PTO FOR THAT PAY PERIOD. IT REMOVES THE EXEMPTION FOR A NEW EMPLOYEE, THEY DON'T ACCRUE PTO FOR A HOLIDAY THAT'S WITHIN THAT WEEK.
THEY DON'T ACCRUE PTO FOR THAT PAY PERIOD, IF A HOLIDAY IS INCLUDED IN THAT WEEK. CAN YOU HELP EXPLAIN THAT?
>> AGAIN, THIS IS ONE OF THOSE WHERE I WAS TALKING ABOUT ADMINISTRATIVELY BURDENSOME EARLIER, AND SO TODAY, AND I'LL USE, YOU KNOW, I HAD A NEW EMPLOYEE START LAST MONTH, AND I'LL USE HER AS AN EXAMPLE. SO KIRSTEN, FOR EXAMPLE, HER FIRST PAY PERIOD, THERE WERE NO HOLIDAYS, SHE WORKED THE WHOLE TWO WEEKS, SHE'S ACCRUED 9 1/2 HOURS. WHEN YOU LOOK AT HER SECOND PAY ÷÷PERIOD WITH THE CITY, THAT INCLUDES CHRISTMAS EVE, AND PARIS MAS DAY.
SHE'S ONLY A -- CHRISTMAS DAY. SHE'S ACCRUED 9 AND A HALF HOURS, THE FULL DAY IS 7 1/2.
THE POLICY HAS BEEN, UNLESS YOU'RE WORKING, YOU'RE FULL, AND I THINK THIS IS VARIED FROM DEPARTMENT TO DEPARTMENT AGAIN, BUT UNLESS YOU HAVE WORKED YOUR ENTIRE UNLESS YOUR TIME SHEET SHOWS 37 HOURS, FOR EACH WEEK, YOU DO NOT ACCRUE ANY ADDITIONAL TIME, AND THAT'S BEEN NOT HANDLED THE SAME BY EACH DEPARTMENT. JUST TRYING TO BRING CONSISTENCY
HERE. >> THEN ONLINE 240 UNDER BEREAVEMENT PAY, YOU'RE STRIKING THE PER CALENDAR YEAR, DODO NOT WANT TO STILL DEFINE IT AS ONLY THREE SHIFTS PER CALENDAR YEAR? NO, THE GOAL IS NOW MORE -- AND IT'S PROBABLY LESS ABOUT SHIFTS THAN IT IS PER DEATH, FRANKLY, IS WHAT WE'RE GOING FOR.
INSTEAD OF BEING THREE DAYS OR SHIFT PER YEAR, IT'S NOW THREE DAYS OR SHIFT.
>> FOR A DEATH VERSUS -- OKAY.
>> AND AGAIN, THE MORE SIGNIFICANT PART IS THE PER EVENT CHANGE FROM YEAR VERSUS THE DAY OR SHIFT
PIECE. >> AND THEN MY -- THAT MAKES SENSE, AND THEN ONLINE 251, ON IMMEDIATE FAMILY.
>> IS THERE A DEFINITION, AND MAYBE THIS IS A LEGAL QUESTION, DEFINITION NEEDED FOR, LIKE, FOSTER CHILDREN COUNTED AS IMMEDIATE FAMILY FOR BEREAVEMENT PAY, IS THERE ADDITIONAL CATEGORIES THAT NEED TO BE IN THERE, OTHER THAN JUST SON, BROTHER, OR RELATED TO CHILD OR GRANDCHILD? YOU KNOW, WHAT IF THERE'S, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE A FOSTER PARENT, DOES THAT OR DOES THAT -- IS THAT JUST INCLUDED UNDER CHILD? AS AN IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBER.
>> IT DOES SAY ANYONE LIVING IN THE
HOUSEHOLDS. >> THAT SHOULD COVER IT THEN.
>> I THINK LEGALLY, OVER AND OVER, THERE'S A TENDENCY, BECAUSE FAMILY LOOKS AND DEFINES IN MANY DIFFERENT WAYS, CHANGES, BY THE TIME, SO LEGALLY HAS BEEN A SIGNIFICANT SHIFT TOWARDS MOVING AWAY FROM A VERY SPECIFIC DEFINITION OF A FAMILY, MOTHER, FATHER, SON, DAUGHTER, ET CETERA, TO MEMBERS OF YOUR
>> SO THAT SHOULD -- SHOULD FALL INTO THAT DEFINITION, AND YOU SEE BY WAY OF THAT, YOU SEE NOT ONLY IN HR POLICIES BUT ALSO IN ÷÷OTHER LEGAL AREAS AS WELL, FOR EXAMPLE, GROUP HOMES.
THERE HAS ALSO BEEN MOVEMENT TOWARDS THE DEFINITION OF MY HOUSEHOLD, WHERE YOU
[01:10:02]
CONSIDER FAMILY MEMBERS.>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? IS THERE A --
>> JUST ONE QUESTION FOR ZACH. FOR THIS, WE NEED TO AMEND THIS. SO THAT'S THE ONLY QUESTION.
SO CHAIR, I WOULD LIKE TO MOTION TO APPROVE ORDINANCE D-2753 OR TO SEND BACK TO THE FULL COUNCIL WITH A POSITIVE RECOMMENDATION ORDINANCE D-2753-24 AS AMENDED WITH THE REPLACEMENT OF D UP THERE ON SECTION 2-52.
>> GOT A MOTION BY TONY, DO WE HAVE A SECOND?
>> SECOND BY COUNSELOR LOCKE. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE, ALL OF THOSE IN FAVOR OF APPROVING COUNSEL
[d. Analysis of Audit Committee ]
GREEN'S MOTION, SAY AYE, OPPOSED SAME SIGN.MOTION CARRIES. AS A REPORT, COUNSELOR LOCKE WILL START WORKING ON ANALYSIS OF THE AUDIT COMMITTEE FOR US AND WILL REPORT BACK.
OUR NEXT MEETING IS GOING TO BE SCHEDULED FOR MONDAY, THE -- FEBRUARY 3RD AT 4:00. AT THAT MEETING -- MONDAY, FEBRUARY 3RD AT 4:00 IN THE COUNCIL CHAMBERS.
WE WILL START -- AND THEN WE WILL START AT -- WE WILL SCHEDULE REOCCURRING STANDING MEETINGS GOING FORWARD THEY'LL WORK ON TOGETHER.
ANY OTHER ITEMS FOR THE AGENDA? IF NOT --
>> THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR ATTENTION AND TIME AND SUPPORT. APPRECIATE IT.
WE'LL ADJOURN AT 5:48 P.M. THANK YOU.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.