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>>> WELCOME 3RD, 2025 FINANCE --
[a. Ordinance D-2741-24; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Amending Chapter 2, Article 6, Sections 2-301, 2-302 and 2-303, of the Carmel City Code; Sponsor(s): Councilor(s) Green and Aasen.]
THE PURPOSE OF THE MEETING IS TO DISCUSS TWO ITEMS WE HAVE ON OUR AGENDA.ONE IS ORDINANCE D-24, AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE BUDGET FOR THE CITY OF CARMEL. I HAD ZAC SEND OUT THE RED LINE AND WE HAVE THE ORDINANCE IN FRONT OF UT, ZAK, WOULD YOU LIKE TO DISCUSS THE PROPOSED CHANGES AFTER YOUR LAST DISCUSSION ON THIS MATTER?
>> I WOULD BE HAPPY TO, THANK YOU. I SUM UP THE CHANGES IN THREE PARTS HERE. SO THE FIRST ONE IS ON THE TRANSFER OF FUNDS, AND, YOU KNOW, THIS IS AFTER -- I THINK I ORIGINALLY PRESENTED THIS ONE BACK AROUND SEPTEMBER OR SO, MAYBE OCTOBER.
WHAT I WAS RECOGNIZING IS THAT CARMEL'S LAWS WERE MORE RESTRICTIVE THAN WHAT THE STATE LAWS ARE FOR LOCALS WHEN IT COMES TO DOING TRANSFERS. ORIGINALLY I KIND OF AIMED FOR THE MOON AND STARS AND TRIED TO GET MORE AUTHORITY.
NOW I'VE GONE A ROUTE THAT -- I HOPE COUNCIL APPRECIATES I'VE DRAWN THE LINE WHERE IT ALREADY CURRENTLY IS TODAY, BUT JUST TRIED TO SIMPLIFY IT. SO TODAY IN LAW, BASICALLY ALLOWS DEPARTMENTS AND THE CONTROLLER'S OFFICE ON BEHALF OF DEPARTMENTS TO TRANSFER UP TO $25,000 AT THE TIME, AS LONG AS WE'RE EVER RESCINDING IT THROUGHOUT THE YEAR DOES NOT RECEIVE MORE THAN $50,000 IN TOTAL. AGAIN, WE CAN ONLY DO TRANSFERS WITHIN THE SAME MAJOR BUDGET CATEGORY OR CLASSIFICATION. BUT THE WAY IT'S BEEN IMPLEMENTED OVER TIME OR HOW THAT LOOKS IS FUNCTIONALLY -- I DON'T THINK DEPARTMENTS SEE THAT AS WE CAN ONLY TRANSFER $25,000, BECAUSE THE LIMIT IS $50,000 OF WHAT YO CAN TRANSFER OVER THE COURSE OF THE YEAR. SO AT TIMES WE'LL RECEIVE REQUESTS TO TRANSFER $50,000 OR $49,000, AND INSTEAD IT'S JUST DONE AS, OKAY, TODAY WE'LL TRANSFER $25,000, TOMORROW WE'LL DO THE OTHER $24,000. WHAT I'VE DONE HERE IS KIND OF, OKAY, THAT STARTS TO GET A LITTLE GIMMICKLY, FRANKLY.
SO WHAT I'VE CUT OUT IS THE $25,000 PIECE.
SO NOW IT'S JUST WE CAN TRANSFER UP TO $50,000, PERIOD, WHICH BASICALLY WE HAVE TO DO TWO STEPS TO GET THERE. THAT IS THE TRANSFER PORTION OF THIS. IN TERMS OF THE NEXT PIECES, THOSE TOUCH ON THE CHART OF ACCOUNTS, AND BUDGET FORMS, AND I JUST THINK AS THE CONTROLLER I'M BETTER POSITIONED TO MAKE THESE ADJUSTMENTS THAN WHAT COUNCIL MIGHT BE.
SO CURRENT LAW BASICALLY SAYS IT'S COUNCIL THAT ESTABLISHES THE CHART OF ACCOUNTS, WHICH IS REALLY JUST THE HIERARCHY OF OUR ACCOUNTING SYSTEM, AS WELL AS BUDGET FORMS. I'VE MODIFIED THAT IN THIS TO BASICALLY LET ME, THE CONTROLLER, SET THOSE. AND IF I MAKE ANY CHANGES, TO REQUIRE THAT I UPDATE COUNCIL ANNUALLY ON ANY OF THOSE.
AND THEN, LASTLY, ON IT TOOK ME SOME TIME TO DIG INTO IT.
WHAT EXISTS IN LAW TODAY, FRANKLY, KIND OF SURPRISED ME, BECAUSE I'M NOT SURE ANYBODY WOULD REALLY WANT THIS TO HAPPEN, NOR AM I SURE THAT OUR ACCOUNTING SYSTEM CAN ACCOMMODATE IT.
EXISTING LAW BASICALLY SAYS THAT IF A DEPARTMENT WANTS TO ENCUMBER DOLLARS, AND THE DOLLARS AREN'T SPENT BECAUSE WE'VE GOT A HOLD ON IT BECAUSE WE'VE GOT THIS CONTRACT. THE LAW SAID IF THE DEPARTMENT WANTS TO KEEP THE DOLLARS ENCUMBERED THAT AREN'T SIGNED TO A CONTRACT OR ANYTHING, THEY CAN DO THAT BUT THEY HAVE TO COME TO COUNCILFIRST. AND THAT'S A BAD PRACTICE, FRANKLY, TO SAY, YEAH, YOU CAN KEEP $50,000 OR $100,000 OR WHATEVER THAT IS OF THIS YEAR'S BUDGET ENCUMBERED, EVEN IF YOU DON'T HAVE A VENDOR PICKED OUT, A CONTRACT IN PLACE, ANY OF THAT. AND SO I'VE SCRAPPED THAT IN LAW. I DON'T
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THINK THAT'S A VERY GOOD PRACTICE THAT WE WANT TO KEEP GOING FORWARD. INSTEAD, I'VE PUT IN THERE KIND OF MORE OF WHAT I THINK WE REALLY WANT TO MONITOR, AND THAT IS THE NORMAL PURCHASE ORDERS WHERE THE DEPARTMENT MIGHT ENTER INTO A CONTRACT FOR WHATEVER REASON THAT THE WORK HAS NOT BEEN COMPLETED OR THE FINAL PAYMENT -- WE'VE NOT GOT THE LAST INVOICE BEFORE THE END OF THE YEAR.THOSE MAKE SENSE THAT WE ROLL FROM YEAR TO YEAR.
HISTORICALLY THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN -- BY LAW, BASICALLY IT SAYS THAT I THINK EACH DEPARTMENT IS SUPPOSED TO SEND SOMETHING TO COUNCIL.
I'VE CHANGED THAT SO THEY SUBMIT IT THROUGH ME SO I CAN TRY TO PARE IT DOWN SOMETIMES. FEEDBACK FROM A PREVIOUSLY MEETING, I CAN'T REMEMBER THE EXACT WORDS I USED, BUT THE COUNCIL, THE CLERK AND THE JUDGE DON'T HAVE TO GET MY PERMISSION OR ANYTHING, BUT THEY DO HAVE TO SUBMIT IT. BUT I'VE NOT GIVEN MYSELF THE ABILITY TO KIND OF SCRUTINIZE SEPARATELY ELECTED, BUT BASICALLY I'M COMPILING ALL OF THOSE THINGS, ONE PERSON SEEING IT ALL AND THEN GIVING IT TO COUNCIL. SO THAT'S THE OVERVIEW OF
HOW THIS ORDINANCE LOOKS NOW. >> QUESTIONS? COUNSELOR GREEN.
>> THANKS, ZAC, SO REVERSE ORDER, SO IN THE PAST, LIKE YOU WERE JUST EXPLAINING -- AND I WAS LOOKING THROUGH AS YOU WERE EXPLAINING, TRACKING THROUGH THE LANGUAGE THAT'S BEEN RED LINED. SO NORMALLY THE BEST PRACTICEPRACTICE THAT EVERYTHING SHOULD BE COMMITTED OR OBLIGATED, WHATEVER ACCOUNTING TERM, AND NOT SPENT, BUT JUST SOMEHOW COMMITTED SO ITIT COULD CARRY ON UNTIL THE NEXT YEAR. VIA A CONTRACT OR PURCHASE ORDER, LIKE YOU SAID.
SO WHAT HAPPENS TODAY IF THERE IS NO PURCHASE ORDER? IT WOULD GO BACK TO THE GENERAL FUND?
>> THAT'S CORRECT. RIGHT NOW THERE IS SOME DOCUMENT OUT THERE THAT'S NEEDED TO ESTABLISH THE PURCHASE ORDER IN THE FIRST PLACE.
SOMETIMES THAT'S A WRITTEN QUOTE, SOMETIMES THAT MIGHT EVEN LOOK LIKE A CONTRACT OR AN AGREEMENT. BUT IT'S SOMETHING IN WRITING FROM THAT COMPANY SAYING, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE GOING TO CHARGE YOU FOR THIS GOOD OR SERVICE.
>> OKAY. AND GOING FORWARD WITH THESE CHANGES, THAT'S PRETTY MUCH DEFAULT ACROSS THE BOARD, RIGHT?
>> THAT IS CORRECT. >> SO YOU'RE CLEANING UP THE ABILITY TO -- LIKE YOU SAID, LOCK IN THINGS, COMMIT WITHOUT ANY TYPE OF COMMITMENT?
>> RIGHT. AND I COULDN'T TELL YOU FOR SURE THAT IT'S EVEN GOING ON RIGHT NOW.
I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY INSTANCES WHERE DEPARTMENTS ARE ABLE TO ENCUMBER DOLLARS WITHOUT THAT WRITTEN DOCUMENT.
>> OR WITHOUT COUNCIL APPROVAL, YEAH.
>> HOWEVER, WHAT I'VE HEARD -- AND I THINK THIS GOES BACK YEARS, WE'RE TALKING BACK TO WHEN WE HAD A CLERK TREASURER, THERE WERE TIMES, I THINK MAYBE THIS WAS HOW IT WAS IMPLEMENTED.
I'M TOLD THAT THERE WERE DEPARTMENTS THAT WOULD BASICALLY WRITE A PURCHASE ORDER TO THEMSELVES, TO THE DEPARTMENT, AND SO THAT WAY THE DOLLARS DIDN'T REVERT BACK TO THE GENERAL FUND AT THE END OF THE YEAR. THEY STAYED CAUGHT UP IN THAT PURCHASE ORDER. THE NEW YEAR COMES AND NOW THERE'S DOLLARS PUT BACK INTO THEIR BUDGET FROM THE PRIOR YEAR THAT WEREN'T TIED TO ANY SPECIFIC WRITTEN AGREEMENT.
IT WAS JUST THAT'S HOW THEY KIND OF TRICKED THE SYSTEM IN ORDER TO KEEP DOLLARS AVAILABLE FOR THE FOLLOWING YEAR.
THAT PRACTICE NO LONGER EXISTS. BUT I THINK BY LAW WE WOULD PROBABLY BE KIND OF MAKING THAT LEGAL AS IT STANDS TODAY.
SO IT'S GETTING RID OF THAT, AND THEN REALLY ON THE CURRENT ENCUMBRANCES THAT WE DO, THIS IS A REFLECTION OF TODAY. IT'S THE CONTROLLER'S OFFICE, AND I THINK IT'S ON COUNCIL'S AGENDA TONIGHT FOR THE -- WE'RE SUPPOSED TO GIVE NOTICE OR A LIST OF ALL THE PURCHASE ORDERS TO COUNCIL EVERY YEAR AFTER THE BEGINNING
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AND IT STRIPS OUT THE DEPARTMENT NEEDING TO BRING IT TO THE CITY COUNCIL PRIOR TO WHAT THE FINAL MEETING OF THE YEAR -->> AGAIN, THAT WAS THE -- THEY NEEDED TO BRING IT BEFORE THE END OF THE YEAR IF THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE A PURCHASE ORDER THAT WAS NOT TIED TO ANYTHING.
THERE WAS A REQUIREMENT TO BRING IT THEN. BUT I'M JUST SAYING LET'S GET RID OF THAT ALTOGETHER.
>> DO YOU KNOW WHY THAT WAS, ANY SPECIFIC -- USE THE PURCHASE ORDER WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT. BUT ANY SITUATION WHERE THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING IN THE PAST AND THEN CAME TO THE COUNCIL AND SAID, HEY, YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO DO THIS IN THE FUTURE, JUST GO AHEAD AND COMMIT THE MONEY?
>> YEAH, I DON'T -- I THINK THERE ARE BETTER WORKAROUNDS. I CAN IMAGINE WHAT YOU CAN ACHIEVE IN THAT SITUATION. I THINK THERE ARE BETTER, MORE PRACTICAL WORKAROUNDS TO GET TO THAT SAME POINT. IF THE GOAL WAS, YEAH, CITY COUNCIL WANTS THIS DEPARTMENT TO HAVE THIS MILLION NEXT YEAR --
>> IT ALMOST BE LIKE EARMARKED BECAUSE IT WOULD GO BACK TO GENERAL FUNDS AND BE REALLOCATED, BUT WE WOULD BE EARMARKING IT WITHOUT GOING THROUGH THAT PROCESS.
>> WHETHER IT'S THROUGH SUPPLEMENTAL APPROPRIATION THE FOLLOWING YEAR, OR IF YOU HAVE THE MONEY IN YOUR BUDGET THIS YEAR, LET'S GO AHEAD AND GET IT.
>> THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ANY OF THIS, BUT I JUST WANT TO BE SURE, I JUST WANT TO ASK THE QUESTION, THERE IS NO LEGITIMATE REASON WHY A DEPARTMENT WOULD ENCUMBER FUNDS WITHOUT -- I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I'M BASING MY VOTE AND MY SUPPORT OF THIS, THAT THERE'S NO LEGITIMATE REASON WHY THAT'S BEEN PRACTICED IN THE PAST.
>> FOR THE LIFE OF ME, I CAN'T THINK OF ONE.
AND I CAN SAY HOW WE OPERATE, THE CONTROLLER'S DEPARTMENT TODAY AND FOR THE LAST FEW YEARS, WE ALWAYS REQUIRE SOME SORT OF WRITTEN --
>> IT SEEMS TO MAKE SENSE, YEAH. AND THEN THE ONLY -- I MAY HAVE MISSED THIS, BUT HOW ARE YOU HANDLING THEN, IF THERE'S A DISPUTE WITH AN OPEN INVOICE? HOW IS THAT BEING HANDLED NOW?
>> SO ESSENTIALLY IN THE PAST THE REQUIREMENT FROM THE CONTROLLER'S OFFICE -- WE HAVE A PURCHASING PROGRAM THAT'S PRETTY OLD, THAT'S LITERALLY DEVELOPED IN AN ACCESS DATABASE. WE HAVE AN OLD ACCOUNTING SYSTEM AS WELL AND THE TWO OF THOSE REALLY DON'T TALK TO EACH OTHER. IF YOU'RE PURCHASING SOMETHING, THIS SYSTEM EXISTS TO SPIT OUT A HARD COPY PURCHASE ORDER. SOMEBODY TAKES THAT PIECE OF PAPER OVER TO MY OFFICE AND HAS SOMEBODY ELSE LOAD THAT PURCHASE ORDER INTO THE ACCOUNTING SYSTEM.
THOSE TWO SYSTEMS MAY NOT NECESSARILY BALANCE OUT AT THE END OF THE YEAR.
HISTORICALLY THAT'S BEEN THE ONLY -- THAT'S BEEN THE MAJOR FOCUS OF MY DEPARTMENT, ISIS JUST, BEFORE YEAR END, YOU NEED TO RECONCILE THE TWO.
IF THIS SYSTEM SAYS YOUR PURCHASES ARE $1 MILLION AND THIS SAYS $1.2 MILLION, IT'S THE ACCOUNTING SYSTEM THAT'S THE OFFICIAL BOOK OF RECORD.
WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHY THEY DON'T MATCH.
THIS YEAR WE ADDED ON SOME EXTRA QUESTIONS TO THAT, WHICH WERE BASICALLY, LIKE, GETTING AT WHY DO YOU NEED THESE DOLLARS TO REMAIN ENCUMBERED FOR NEXT YEAR. FOR ME, THE ACCEPTABLE ANSWERS ARE, WELL, I'VE GOT MONEY FOR A ONE-TIME PROJECT AND WE'VE NOT COMPLETED IT YET, OR IT'S DONE, I JUST HAVEN'T GOT THE LAST INVOICE YET.
I THINK IN THE PAST IT'S NOT BEEN COMMON -- IT'S BEEN UNCOMMON FOR DEPARTMENTS TO USE IT MORE AS A TOOL, HEY, MY BUDGET WILL BE EASIER NEXT YEAR IF I ALREADY HAVE A LOT OF MY OFFICE SUPPLIES ENCUMBERED FOR THIS YEAR, THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND SO THAT WAS ONE OF THE QUESTIONS, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU'RE NOT DOING THIS JUST TO SIMPLY PAD YOUR BUDGET FOR NEXT YEAR.
BASICALLY, JUST BY ASKING QUESTIONS. THERE WAS NO PURCHASE ORDER THAT WE WENT BACK AND TOLD SOMEBODY TO CLOSE.
SOME OF THEM WENT BACK AND CLOSED THEIR OWN BECAUSE THEY COULD NOT GIVE US GOOD ANSWERS.
>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? AND I APOLOGIZE, BECAUSE I'M JUST NOW STARTING TO THINK ABOUT A COUPLE OF THESE ISSUES.
ONE, VERY SUPPORTIVE, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT TRANSFERS ARE GOING THROUGH THE CONTROLLER'S OFFICE. THAT'S WHY THE CONTROLLER AS
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THE CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER SHOULD BE ABLE TO REGULATE AND REVIEW THOSE THINGS. BUT I STILL WANT THE ABILITY, THOUGH -- AND THIS IS PROBABLY A BENJAMIN QUESTION. I STILL WANT -- THIS, TO ME, RESTRICTS THE COUNCIL'S ABILITY TO BE ABLE TO CREATE A LINELINE IN THE CHART OF ACCOUNTS AS NEEDED. SO IF WE TAKE ACTION AT THE DAIS FOR WHICH A LINE ITEM IN THE BUDGET NEEDS TO BE CREATED, I THINK WE SHOULD RESERVE THE RIGHT IN BOTH ISSUES FOR COUNCIL TO ALSO BE ABLE TO DO THESE THINGS OTHER THAN THE CONTROLLER. I DON'T KNOW WHAT TYPE OF LANGUAGE NEEDS TO BE ADDED OR IF THAT'S JUST AS SIMPLE AS STATING COUNCIL RESERVES THE RIGHT TO ALSO MAKE CHANGES TO THE CHART OF ACCOUNTS AND BUDGET FORMS ASNEEDED. >> FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH, I WOULD APPRECIATE IF COUNCIL MAY DIRECT THE C, CFR CONTROL TORE MAKE
CHANGES. >> IF WE CAN ADD THAT IN THERE.
THEN THE OTHER THING I WAS THINKING, THE BUDGET FORMS, I THINK THAT'S FINE TO REPORT ANNUALLY.
BUT IF WE'RE GOING TO MAKE CHANGES TO THE CHART OF ACCOUNT, PARTICULARLY IF THEY'RE MATERIAL, ONLY REPORTING ONCE A YEAR, CAN THOSE BE REPORTED AT THE NEXT COUNCIL MEETING?
OCCUR. >> YEAH, SO WITH THE REPORT, INSTEAD OF -- WITH THE REPORT, MAYBE THE LANGUAGE IS WITH THE REPORT AT THE FOLLOWING COUNCIL MEETING. ARE YOU OKAY WITH THOSE?
>> BENJAMIN, DID YOU CATCH THOSE?
>> YES. >> AND I'M HOPING THAT WE CAN -- IF COUNCIL AGREES AND PRESIDENT AUSTIN AUSTIN AGREES, WE CAN MOVE THIS THROUGH THIS EVENING SO WE DON'T HAVE AN EIGHTH READING.
EVERYBODY AGREE WITH THOSE SUGGESTED CHANGES?
>> I'M NOT THAT ARTICULATE, SO LET'S GIVE IT A SHOT.
AND ITEM A, CHART OF ACCOUNTS, BUDGET AND FORMS, ITEM A AT THE END OF THE SENTENCE, SHALL SUBMIT A COPY OF ANY CHANGES TO THE COUNCIL AT THE FOLLOWING COUNCIL MEETING.
THAT WOULD BE THAT SECTION. AND THEN THE NEXT SENTENCE COULD BE, COUNCIL RESERVES THE RIGHT TO MAKE CHANGES TO THE CHART OF ACCOUNTS.
>> SORRY, TO DIRECT THE CONTROL TORE MAKE CHANGES TO THE CHART OF ACCOUNTS. SEE, THAT'S WHY I'M NOT AN ATTORNEY. AND THEN I'M FINE WITH THE BUDGET FORMS. I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO HAVE ANY CHANGES TO WHEN THE CONTROLLER REPORTS THE BUDGET FORMS. THAT COULD BE ANNUALLY, BECAUSE THAT WILL BE PART OF THE BUDGET PROCESS.
I JUST DON'T KNOW IF -- AND THEN DO WE WANT TO KEEP THE RIGHT AS A COUNCIL TO BE ABLE TO DIRECT THE CONTROLLER TO MAKE CHANGES TO BUDGET FORMS? I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE ABLE TO CHANGE THE CHART OF ACCOUNTS. I'M NOT THAT CONCERNED ABOUT THE BUDGET FORMS. SO IF YOU MAKE THOSE CHANGES TO A ONLY, I THINK THAT SATISFIES WHAT I DISCUSSED PREVIOUSLY.
>> WE'LL HAVE TO AMEND IT FIRST.
>> THE SHALL SUBMIT A COPY OF ANY CHANGES TO THE NEXT COUNCIL MEETING, THAT'S IN B-1, CONTROLLER APPROVED TRANSFERS. IS THAT WHERE YOU WANT THAT LANGUAGE?
>> NO, CHART OF ACCOUNTS AND BUDGET FORMS, A. IT WOULD BE, LIKE, LINE 63, UNDER B.
>> SO, IF I MAY, THAT STARTS THE CONTROLLER SHALL ADOPT A CHART OF ACCOUNTS IN COMPLIANCE AND SHALL SUBMIT A COPY OF ANY CHANGES TO COUNCIL BEFORE THE NEXT MEETING, SOMETHING --
>> OR AT THE NEXT COUNCIL MEETING, BY THE NEXT COUNCIL
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MEETING. >> AND THAT'S LINE 63?
>> YEAH. >> AND THEN THE OTHER, MAKE CHANGES TO THE CHART OF ACCOUNTS, IS THAT 63, 64?
>> COUNCIL MAY DIRECT THE CONTROL CONTROLLER TO MAKE CHANGES TO THE CHART OF
ACCOUNTS. >> AT THE END OF THAT, OKAY, YEP. THAT WORKS.
>> I JUST DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO AMEND THIS ORDINANCE AGAIN WHERE THERE MAY BE A CASE THAT THE COUNCIL NEEDS TO CHANGE THE CHART OF ACCOUNTS FOR SOME REASON. I DON'T THINK IT'S OUR INTENT TO REGULARLY BE CHANGING THE CHART OF ACCOUNTS. QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT? NONE. DO YOU HAVE A MOTION CONSIDERING THIS ORDINANCE?
>> YEAH, I'LL MOTION AND I'LL GO AHEAD AND AMEND IT SO WE SEND ITIT BACK AMENDED, EVEN THOUGH I THINK WE'LL HAVE TO AMEND IT AT THE COUNCIL MEETING.
>> I WOULD JUST SUGGEST THAT PERHAPS THE LANGUAGE SHOULD BE NOTHING IN THIS SECTION SHALL RESTRICT THE RIGHTS OF COUNCIL TO. WE'LL START IT WITH THAT, SO THAT WAY IT JUST MAKES IT CLEAR, AND THAT YOU AREN'T NECESSARILY EXTENDING SCOPE BEYOND WHAT YOU ALREADY HAVE, BUT YOU ARE NOT LIMITING YOURSELVES, EITHER.
>> SO THAT WOULD BE THE PREAMBLE THAT I WOULD
RECOMMEND. >> AND THAT WOULD BE THE ONLY CHANGE NEEDED, THEN?
>> TO THE AMENDMENT THAT YOU SUGGESTED, AT THE START OF
CLEARER. >> SHOULD WE AMEND IT IN COMMITTEE?
>> YEAH, IF YOU AMEND IT IN COMMITTEE NOW AND APPROVE THOSE AMENDMENTS AND SEND IT BACK AS THE AMENDED VERSION, AND THEN THEY WILL -- COUNCIL, YOU CAN VOTE ON THE AMENDED VERSION AND MAKE SURE FROM THE DAIS WHAT THE CHANGES ARE. THERE'S ENOUGH TIME THAT WE CAN ACTUALLY PUT THAT LANGUAGE RIGHT IN AND IT WILL BE AVAILABLE FOR
YOU. >> THAT WOULD BE PERFECT.
SO WE HAVE A MOTION TO AMEND AS SUGGESTED BY BENJAMIN AND OUR DISCUSSION? DO WE HAVE A SECOND? SECOND. MY FURTHER DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE, THIS AMENDMENT, ALL OF THOSE IN FAVOR OF COUNCILLOR'S GREEN'S MOTION SAY AYE.
AYE. >> MOVE TO TO COUNCIL WITH A POSITIVE RECOMMENDATION. DO I HAVE A MOTION? MOTION AND SECOND BY COUNCILLOR GREENE.
ALL OF THOSE IN FAVOR OF APPROVING THE MOTION, SAY
[b. Ordinance D-2755-25; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Amending Chapter 3, Article 1, Division II, Section 3-30 of the Carmel City Code; Sponsor(s): Councilors Aasen and Taylor.]
NEXT WE'LL MOVE TO D-27-755-25, ADDING THE FINANCE DEPARTMENT'S BUDGET QUARTERLY REPORTS.
ZAC? OKAY, COUNCIL PRESENT, AUSTIN HAS A COMMENT RELATED TO THIS ORDINANCE HE WOULD LIKE TO MAKE.
>> I APOLOGIZE, I HAD TO STEP OUT FOR A CALL.
BUT I WANTED TO MAKE A COMMENT ABOUT WHY WE'RE DOING THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE.
I KNOW WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS.
IT WAS DURING SOME OF THE END-OF- YEAR TRANSFERS, THERE WAS A COMMENT MADE THAT I THOUGHT WAS REALLY GOOD ABOUT SEEING SOME OF THE STUFF COMING UP AHEAD OF TIME AND NOT JUST BEING TOLD AFTER THE FACT.
SO A QUARTERLY BUDGET ORDER, WHICH IS VERY COMMON IN THE FOR- PROFIT WORLDS THAT AN IDEA THAT I HAD. WE MET WITH ZAC AND TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WOULD BE OF THE BIGGEST INTEREST. I KNOW OUR COUNCIL MEETINGS ARE GETTING LONG, SO MY IDEA IS TO JUST KEEP IT TO WHAT WE NEED, MAKE IT A WRITTEN REPORT WHERE THE COUNCIL IS EXPECTED TO READ IT AND WE CAN ASK SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT IT, INSTEAD OF HAVING A HALF HOUR PRESENTATION EVERY QUARTER.
I THINK THE THING WE THOUGHT WAS THE MOST PRESSING WERE VARIANCES, AND I THINK ZAC WILL GO INTO THAT.
BUT WE'RE OPEN TO OTHER THOUGHTS IF PEOPLE WANT MORE THINGS IN THERE. BUT KEEPING IN MIND, I KNOW NONE OF US WANT A GIANT REPORT AND A GIANT PRESENTATION EVERY QUARTER.
>> AT LEAST I HAVE TO REPORT MY TIME BY THE HOUR.
MR. CHAIRMAN, HAPPY TO HELP HOWEVER I CAN HERE.
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I'VE GOT SOME IDEAS OF WHAT I THINK MAKES SENSE, BUT TO THE EXTENT, YOU KNOW, I START SENDING THIS OUT AND COUNCILLORS HAVE OTHER IDEAS THEY WANT TO SEE, I WOULD BE HAPPY TO -- I WANT YOU GUYS TO HAVE THE SAME CONFIDENCE I DO IN TERMS OF HOW OUR NUMBERS ARE LOOKING AND THAT WE'RE MAKING GOOD STRIDES.I WOULD SAY THE ONLY CONCERN I HAVE WITH, AS WRITTEN, IS ESPECIALLY WITH -- I THINK IT SAYS JANUARY, APRIL, SO ON AND SO FORTH, EVERY THREE MONTHS.
IT WILL BE KIND OF TOUGH, THE JANUARY -- THE JANUARY ONE, THAT'S WHERE I WOULD ENVISION GIVING AN OVERVIEW OF THE ENTIRE YEAR BEFORE, AND ESPECIALLY I THINK IT READS LIKE THE FIRST MEETING IN JANUARY.
THAT' GOING TO BE A TOUGH TURNAROUND FOR THE DUST TO SETTLE FOR ME TO HAVE GOOD INSIGHT.
BUT I THINK AS LONG AS COUNCIL IS FLEXIBLE, MAYBE THAT'S THE SECOND MEETING IN JANUARY, NOT THE FIRST, THAT WOULD BE MY ONLY CONCERN.
>> SO WE'VE ALL BEEN KIND OF TALKING ABOUT WHAT THIS IS.
I GUESS THE ONE THING I'M LOOKING FOR IN A BUDGET REPORT IS THE AMOUNT THAT HAS BEEN SPENT OUT OF A BUDGET LINE ITEM, AND THEN IN RELATION TO THAT PERIOD OF THE YEAR. SO IF WE'RE HALFWAY THROUGH THE YEAR AND WE SPEND 80% OF THE BUDGET, IF IT'S SOMETHING WHERE IT'S A ONE-TIME PROJECT, THAT MAY MAKE TOTAL SENSE. IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO KIND OF SEE WHERE WE STAND, I THINK THAT WAS THE ONE THING THAT CAME UP THAT WE'RE MISSING. BUT, ALSO, IF WE COULD ALSO HAVE AN INDICATION OF WHAT YOU KNOW IS COMMITTED. THAT MAY BE TOO BROAD OF A STATEMENT, BUT IF WE'VE SPENT 20% IN THE NINTH MONTH, YOU MAY MAY WE'RE GOING TO OVERSPEND.
SO IF THERE'S JUST SOME CONTEXT IS WHAT
I'M LOOKING FOR. >> ABSOLUTELY.
AND THE BUDGET VARIANCE SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE IMPLEMENTED THAT WE ARE LITERALLY KIND OF RIGHT NOW WORKING ON OUR FIRST MONTHS OF ANALYSIS, THAT IS MEANT TO ADD THAT CONTEXT.
TO JUST SAY THAT YOU'VE SPENT -- AS YOU SAID, 20% OF YOUR BUDGET BY THIS POINT IN THE YEAR, YOU DON'T KNOW, WITHOUT THE CONTEXT, WHETHER THAT'S GOOD OR BAD.
THAT'S WHAT THIS IS MEANT TO DO, IS PROVIDE THAT CONTEXT, HOW MUCH DID THAT DEPARTMENT EXPECT TO HAVE SPENT BY THE NINTH MONTH OR IN THE NINTH % MONTH AND NOW THERE'S THE CONTEXT TO SEE WHETHER THE 20% IS GOOD OR BAD. I THINK WE'RE ON THE SAME PAGE.
AGAIN, AS I'M THINKING ABOUT THIS, WE CURRENTLY SEND, LIKE, THE MONTHLY FINANCIAL INVESTMENT REPORT, WE'LL ALSO HAVE THIS QUARTERLY REPORT, AND THEN AS WE'VE DISCUSSED, KIND OF THAT GOING INTO THE CLAIMS MEETINGS, A REPORT THAT KIND OF REALLY SHOWS THE SO WHAT THERE. HOW DO THESE CLAIMS FIT INTO THE ACTUAL LINE ITEM BUDGET, WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE, BEFORE AND AFTER. I THINK WE'LL BE ABLE TO START SENDING THOSE SOON AS WELL.
>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR ZAC ABOUT WHAT THIS REPORT WILL CONTAIN IN GETTING A MONTHLY VARIANCE REPORT?
>> AND IF YOU LIKE, I HAVE KIND OF -- IT WOULD PROBABLY BE LIKE THE BULK OF MY FIRST REPORT THAT I'M GOING TO SHARE WITH THE COMMITTEE WHENEVER YOU'RE --
>> YOU MAY GO AHEAD AND DO THIS NOW, OR ARE YOU VOTING ON THE ORDINANCE?
>> GO AHEAD AND SHOW IT TO US.
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>> THANKS. ALL RIGHT, SO I PASSED OUT A VERSION OF THIS DOCUMENT WITH THE BUDGET BACK IN SEPTEMBER, OCTOBER.
BUT, AGAIN, THIS IS THE SURPLUS STATEMENT THAT WE'VE CREATED FOR THE CITY. THE PURPOSE OF THIS IS TOTO TRY SHOW WHAT ARE OUR CURRENT YEAR REVENUES AND THEN CURRENT YEAR EXPENSES, AND SO BY CALLING IT CURRENT YEAR, WE'RE NOT REALLY COUNTING ONE-TIME REVENUE THAT MIGHT COME IN. I'LL EXPLAIN THAT A LITTLE BIT LATER. TO REALLY GET AT ARE WE OPERATING AT A SURPLUS FOR THE YEAR, AND THEN TAKE THAT SURPLUS, ADD IT TO THE BALANCE WE STARTED WITH, AS WELL AS ANY ONE-TIME REVENUE, ESSENTIALLY EXPENSES, BUT THEN ALSO TRANSFERS OUT AND HOW DOES THAT MAKE THE GENERAL FUND LOOK, ALONG WITH THE RAINY DAY FUND.
I'M CALLING THE COMBINED RESERVE BALANCES BASICALLY THE SUM OF THE GENERAL FUND AND RAINY DAY FUND TOGETHER. WHAT YOU'LL SEE HERE, I'VE GOT 23 ACTUALS, 24 ACTUALS, AND THEN BASED UPON THE REVENUE FORECAST AND BUDGET THAT WAS PASSED FOR '25, YOU'LL SEE THAT OUR REVENUE FOR GENERAL FUND REVENUE FOR '24 WAS JUST OVER $139 MILLION.
THAT WAS AN INCREASE OF 12.6% FROM THE PRIOR YEAR JUST IN TERMS OF REVENUE COMING IN, GENERAL FUND. EXPENSES FOR THE YEAR TOTALED $132.2 MILLION, MEANING THAT DEPARTMENTS UNDERSPENT THEIR GENERAL FUND APPROPRIATIONS BY A COMBINE $6.8 MILLION. I'M SORRY, I SAID THAT WRONG. THE REVISIONS WERE $7.2 MILLION.
YOU TAKE THE APPROPRIATIONS PASSED BY COUNCIL IN THE BUDGET, PLUS SUPPLEMENTAL APPROPRIATIONS. THIS OTHER LINE ITEM, I UNDERSTAND IT AND I'M TRYING TO CHANGE SOME THINGS AROUND SO WE DON'T SEE IT SO MUCH. BUT BASICALLY CURRENT LAW ALLOWS THAT IF WE GET A REFUND OR INSURANCE REIMBURSEMENT, WE CAN APPLY THAT TO INCREASE THE DEPARTMENT'S BUDGET WITHOUT GOING BACK TO COUNCIL TO MAKE THAT REQUEST. BUT I'M NOT REALLY SURE WE SHOULD BE IN SOME OF THOSE INSTANCES.
I THINK WE'RE DOUBLE- COUNTING EXPENSES AND REVENUE.
IF WE BOUGHT SOMETHING FOR 50 BUCKS, RETURNED IT, AND THEN THE REVENUE THAT WE GET WE DEPOSIT THAT AND INCREASE THE APPROPRIATION AND THEN SPEND THE DOLLARS AGAIN, NOW WE'VE COUNTED THE REVENUE AND EXPENSE TWICE. I THINK THERE'S A BETTER WAY TO DO IT AND I'VE TOLD OUR DEPARTMENTS.
ANYWAY, WE UNDER- SPENT OUR GENERAL FUND APPROPRIATIONS BY $7.2 MILLION, WHICH MEANS THE 139 MINUS THE 132 MILLION, WE OPERATED AT A SURPLUS OF $6.8 MILLION FOR THE YEAR. THE LINE HERE, THE RECONCILIATION -- SO, AGAIN, THIS IS THE ONE- TIME THINGS. THE $391,000 AND THE $571,000 ARE KIND OF INTERESTING. THOSE REPRESENT IF IN FISCAL '24, DID WE CLOSE ANY PURCHASE ORDERS THAT WERE ROLLED FROM PRIOR YEARS. SO ON ONE HAND IT MIGHT COUNT AS A REVERSION BECAUSE IT'S COMING BACK TO THE GENERAL FUND. BUT IT'S NOT A REVERSION OF THE CURRENT YEAR APPROPRIATION. IT MIGHT BE AN APPROPRIATION FROM ONE PREVIOUS YEAR OR FIVE YEARS EARLIER. IF IT WAS LOCKED UP IN A PO AND IT'S CLOSED, IT'S COMING BACK.
THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED LAST YEAR AS WELL AS THIS YEAR.
ANYWAY, IT BRINGS THE GENERAL FUND BALANCE TO $14.3 MILLION T RAINY DAY FUND IS AT $14.6. IT'S TECHNICALLY SLIGHTLY OVER-FUNDED.
WE DID THE TRANSFER FROM THE GENERAL FUND LAST YEAR, THIS $1.74, TO MAKE SURE WE WERE HITTING THE 10% REQUIREMENT. BUT THEN ULTIMATELY WHEN COUNCIL PASSED THE BUDGET, OUR PROPOSED BUDGET, I THINK, WAS $147 MILLION. COUNCIL REMOVED A FEW MILLION FROM THAT. SO WE NOW HAVE MORE MONEY IN THE RAINY DAY FUND. JUST A COUPLE HUNDRED THOUSAND MORE THAN WHAT WE HAVE TO HAVE IN THERE. PROBABLY AS WE MOVE INTO THE NEXT YEAR THAT WILL JUST MAKE IT A LITTLE EASIER WHEN WE DO THIS TRANSFER. ANYWAY, COMBINED BALANCES RIGHT NOW STAND AT $28.9 MILLION, AND THEN LOOKING AT NEXT YEAR WE'RE ANTICIPATING REVENUES OF $147.2, THE APPROPRIATIONS
[00:35:01]
ESTABLISHED IN THE BUDGET WERE $143.9.I'LL UPDATE THIS DOCUMENT AS, LIKE, REAL DECISIONS ARE MADE. SO THERE'S -- THE COUNCIL MEETING TODAY, I THINK THERE'S A SUPPLEMENTAL APPROPRIATION FOR $800,000 FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT. THAT'S NOT IN HERE YET BECAUSE IT'S NOT A DONE DEAL YET.
ONCE YOU APPROVE IT, THEN I'LL UPDATE THIS DOCUMENT TO REFLECT THAT.
WE'VE NOW APPROPRIATED AN ADDITIONAL $800,000 OUT OF THE GENERAL FUND BALANCE. BUT, ANYWAY, THIS YEAR WE'RE LOOKING AT OPERATING AT A SURPLUS OF $3.3 MILLION CURRENTLY, AND THAT WOULD BRING THE GENERAL FUND TO $17.7, AND OVERALL BALANCES OF $32.3. I EXPECT THAT WILL COME DOWN SOME AS COUNCIL MAKES SOME SUPPLEMENTAL APPROPRIATIONS THIS YEAR. THERE'S STILL PLENTY OF ROOM TO OPERATE IN A STRUCTURAL SURPLUS THIS YEAR.
WE'VE GOT $3.3 MILLION TO SPEND, IF YOU WILL, BEFORE WE WOULD HAVE TO THINKTHINK IS IT EVEN NECESSARY TO DEFICIT SPEND OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. BUT WE'VE GOT A COMFORTABLE CUSHION, AND THEN, AGAIN, REALLY HEALTHY BALANCES IN PLACE.
THROUGHOUT THIS YEAR, THIS IS GOING TO MORPH INTO, AGAIN, LIKE A VARIANCE REPORT ON SPENDING, AS WELL AS A VARIANCE REPORT ON REVENUES.
WE'RE GOING TO BE SETTING MONTHLY TARGETS.
WE ALREADY HAVE AN ANNUAL TARGET, BUT WE'VE NEVER TRIED TO SET IT FOR EACH MONTH, JUST TO KNOW, AFTER ONE MONTH ARE WE AHEAD OR BEHIND.
BECAUSE WE'VE NEVER SET AN EXPECTATION FOR WHAT THAT MONTH OUGHT TO LOOK LIKE.
I'M HAPPY TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS.
I'LL SEND A VERSION OF THIS OUT AS
>> THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. YOU ALLUDED TO THE $127 MILLION FOR CALENDAR YEAR.
>> THAT IT'S NOT CERTAIN YET. OR IS IT $147?
>> YEAH, WE'VE GOTTEN ALL THE FINAL.
YEAH, SO IN TERMS OF -- YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE REVENUE FOR FISCAL YEAR '25.
YEAH, SO LOOKING AT THE TOP HERE, THE $48. 3 AND THE $77.2, THOSE ARE FIXED ESTABLISHED NUMBERS.
THE LGF HAS TOLD US THOSE ARE OUR NUMBERS FOR THIS YEAR.
THE OTHER $22 MILLION HERE THOSE WILL FLUCTUATE. THERE ARE ASSUMPTIONS MADE IN TERMS OF HOW MANY PERMITS PEOPLE PURCHASE FROM THE CITY, WHAT TYPE OF INTEREST RATES WE GET THIS YEAR, HOW MUCH FOOD AND BEVERAGE TAX COMES IN. YOU KNOW, I THINK TO AN EXTENT -- THERE'S NO CHANCE THAT THIS EVER BECOMES ZERO, BUT, YEAH, THERE IS SOME AT PLAY
THERE. >> IT LOOKS LIKE A MILLION OR SO, PLUS OR --
>> OKAY. ALL RIGHT, I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS A LOT, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE KICKED OFF THIS BUDGET YEAR, AND THE COUNCIL PULLING SOME MONEY BACK. WHAT'S THE -- WHAT'S THE GOAL? RIGHT NOW WE'RE TARGETED TO HAVE $3.3 MILLION AT THE END OF THE YEAR AS OPPOSED TO THE $6. 8 PLUS?
>> WHAT'S THE GOAL? ARE WE TRYING TO GET THAT DOWN TO THE LOWER NUMBER, LIKE A ZERO SUM?
>> I WOULD SAY ME PRESENTING THIS IS MORE INFORMATIONAL, NOT NECESSARILY SETTING A GOAL.
I MEAN, CLEARLY I THINK WE WOULD HAVE TO -- ON ONE HAND I COULD SAY ANYTHING ZERO OR POSITIVE IS A GOAL. AS LONG AS WE'RE NOT OPERATING ANY YEAR IN THE DEFICIT.
>> BUT HOW MUCH -- BECAUSE THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN DISCUSSIONS ON FLUFF IN THE BUDGET.
SO HOW DO WE FEEL GOOD THAT WE'VE KIND OF REDUCED THE FLUFF IN THE BUDGET?
>> AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE A NUMBER.
BECAUSE WE'RE DROPPING IT FROM $6.8 TO $3.3.
>> WE'RE ALWAYS -- IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR ANY DEPARTMENT, FOR ANYBODY TO SPEND EXACTLY HOW MUCH THEY WERE APPROPRIATED. THERE'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE SOME UNDER-SPEND. EVEN IF WE DID NO MORE SUPPLEMENTAL APPROPRIATIONS THIS YEAR.
IF WE DO NO SUPPLEMENTAL APPROPRIATIONS, I THINK THE $3.
[00:40:01]
3 WOULD END UP BEING HIGHER, JUST BECAUSE NO DEPARTMENTS WILL SPEND EVERY SINGLE DOLLAR THAT YOU GIVE THEM.>> THE $3.3, DOES THAT INCLUDE THE MONEY IN THE COUNCIL
THAT IS REVENUE FORECAST MINUS THE BUDGET BILL APPROPRIATIONS OUT OF THE GENERAL FUND.
WE HAVE A GAP OF $3.3 MILLION RIGHT NOW TO
ONE OTHER THING THAT I SHOULD MENTION, JUST SO IT'S -- IT MIGHT NOT BE INTUITIVE OR OBVIOUS.
I DO THESE AS THE UN- OBLIGATED BALANCES, ESPECIALLY FOR THE GENERAL FUND. IF YOU RAN A REPORT THAT SAID, WHAT WAS THE CASH BALANCE IN OUR ACCOUNTING SYSTEM ON DECEMBER 31ST, BASICALLY, END OF THE YEAR, THAT NUMBER IS GOING TO BE ABOUT $6 MILLION HIGHER THAN THIS $14.
BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE GENERAL FUND PURCHASE ORDERS, THE REPORT THAT YOU HAVE FOR THE OTHER MEETING.
I THINK THE GENERAL FUND NUMBER IS $5.9 MILLION OF PURCHASE ORDERS THAT ROLLED FROM YEAR TO YEAR. $4. 9 OF THAT ARE FISCAL YEAR '24 PURCHASE ORDERS THAT ARE ROLLING TO '25. A MILLION OF THAT IS PRIOR TO '24 PURCHASE ORDERS ROLLING TO '25.
WE HAVE THAT CASH, HOWEVER IT'S SPOKEN FOR, IT'S OBLIGATED, TIED UP. TO THE EXTENT THAT THOSE DOLLARS AREN'T SPENT, THOSE WILL COME BACK TO THE GENERAL FUND AND WOULD HELP TO INCREASE THESE NUMBERS IN ANOTHER VERSION OF THIS REPORT. BUT RIGHT NOW, EVEN THOUGH THAT REPORT WOULD SHOW THAT WE HAVE $20 MILLION OF CASH, $6 MILLION OF IT IS OBLIGATED, SO I'M NOT REFLECTING THAT IN THE BALANCE HERE.
>> WE, COUNCILLOR, DO YOU WANT TO STEP UP?
>> THANK YOU, PRESIDENT TAYLOR. REALLY QUICK QUESTION.
WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE RAINY DAY FUND AND WE'RE A COUPLE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS OVER, YOU SAID WE HAVE IT IN THERE.
THERE'S NO -- YOU'RE NOT THINKING -- JUST AS A CLARIFYING QUESTION, YOU'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT SAYING, OH, WE'RE GOING TO PULL THAT MONEY OUT AND PUT IT BACK INTO THE GENERAL FUND?
>> MY POINT WAS JUST THAT THE TRANSFER THAT WE DID OUT OF THE GENERAL FUND TO THE RAINY DAY FUND TO GET TO THAT STATUTORY 10% THAT WE MAINTAIN THERE, I CALCULATED THAT NUMBER INITIALLY BASED UPON OUR SUBMITTED BUDGET, PROPOSED BUDGET.
I THINK THAT ORDINANCE OR RESOLUTION WENT THROUGH FAIRLY QUICKLY, AT LEAST GOT PASSED BEFORE THE BUDGET ACTUALLY PASSED. ULTIMATELY THE BUDGET WAS $3 MILLION LOWER, SO WE PROBABLY PUT IN $200,000 $300,000 MORE THAN WE NEEDED TO. MY POINT IS AS WE GO THROUGH THE EXERCISE AT THE END OF THIS YEAR OR EARLY NEXT YEAR, AND TO THE EXTENT WE MIGHT NEED TO ADD ANOTHER MILLION OR SO, WE'VE ALREADY GOT THE FIRST FEW HUNDRED THOUSAND TAKEN CARE OF.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH. THAT'S REALLY ALL I WANTED TO HEAR. THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>> I WONDER IF WE'RE GOING TO REPORT ON THIS QUARTERLY, I'M WONDERING, COULD YOU ADD THE ENCUMBRANCES LINE?
>> AND I'M WONDERING FROM A DELTA PERSPECTIVE, IT WOULD BE GREAT TO SEE THE DRAWDOWN AS THINGS WELCOME ENCUMBERED AND NOT SPENT, THE INCREASE IN THIS YEAR -- OBVIOUSLY TRACKING 2024, THAT GETS SPENT DOWN THIS YEAR, IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHERE WE ARE.
>> SURE. I MIGHT CATCH YOU OFFLINE JUST TO MAKE SURE I GET EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT. THAT IS AN AREA THAT WE'RE -- WE'RE STARTING TO MANAGE THAT MORE. I WOULDN'T SAY AGGRESSIVELY BUT IT'S NOT BEEN MANAGED BEFORE.
NOW WE'RE GOING TO START LOOKING AND ASKING QUESTIONS, DOES THIS STILL NEED -- DOES THIS PURCHASE ORDER STILL NEED TO EXIST, HAS THE PROJECT BEEN COMPLETED OR NOT.
>> AND THEN ONE OTHER THING THAT I THINK WOULD BE INTERESTING ON A QUARTERLY BASIS, TOO, AS WE DRAW THROUGH THIS YEAR AND GET CLOSER TO THE NEXT BUDGET, I'M WONDERING, AS YOU'RE KIND OF MODERNIZING YOUR INTERNAL STRUCTURES AND UNDERSTAND WHERE THE DEPARTMENT BUDGETS ARE, IF THERE'S INFORMATION YOU CAN PULL OR PRESENT ON HOW DEPARTMENTS ARE DOING.
AND THERE MIGHT BE SOME REASON NOT TO.
I DON'T KNOW IF THERE ARE TIMING ISSUES, BUT SOME OF THEM SPECIFICALLY AS WE SEE
[00:45:05]
DRAWDOWNS OR STRUCTURES, THE IDEA OF THERE BEING DIFFERENT OR EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES OR LARGE EXPENDITURES OR CHANGES THAT IT WOULD MAKE SENSE FOR US TO KIND OF -- A CHANGE OR THIS PAYMENT GOES OUT AT THIS TIME. THAT GRANULAR LOOK SO WE UNDERSTAND WHERE WE ARE AS WE MOVE TOWARD THAT POINT, TOO. WHATEVER YOU CAN GET CREATIVE ON DEPARTMENT-SPECIFIC OR, YOU KNOW, THINGS THAT WE SHOULD KNOW GOING INTOTHOSE BUDGET TALKS. >> HAPPY TO.
>> OTHER QUESTIONS FOR ZAC? I JUST HAD A STATEMENT, TOO.
AND I MENTIONED THIS BEFORE AND I DIDN'T KNOW HOW PRACTICAL IT WAS. BUT, YOU KNOW, WAY BACK IN TIME IN 2010 AND '11, WHEN WE OPERATED THROUGH PARKS, WE ACTUALLY -- WHAT WAS PRESENTED TO US WAS THE ACTUAL REPORT SO WE COULD GO THROUGH AND SEE -- IT WAS NOT VERY FUNCTIONAL FROM A MANAGEMENT PERSPECTIVE WHEN WE WERE TRYING TO ACT AS MORE OF A PRIVATE ENTITY RELATED TO THE COMMUNITY CENTER AND AFTERSCHOOL PROGRAM WITH THE COST RECOVERY MANDATES, SO WE NEEDED A TRUE MANAGEMENT P&L STATEMENT, WHICH WE CONVERTED THROUGH QUICKBOOKS. ONE THING THAT WAS NICE WHEN YOU HAVE THE FULL REPORT, YOU CAN SEE IF THERE'S A SPECIAL APPROPRIATION THAT COMES UP TO THE COUNCIL DURING A MEETING, IN THE REPORT YOU CAN GO TO THAT LINE ITEM FOR WHICH THEY'RE TAKING THE FUNDS FROM AND SEE THAT THERE'S UNENCUMBERED MONEYS AVAILABLE IN THE BUDGET LINE ITEM.
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE IN THE COUNCIL PACKET.
I KNOW IT'S PROBABLY LIKE A 250 PAGE PDF, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT COULD JUST BE DROPPED
INTO -- >> WE'RE ON THE EXACT SAME PAGE. I THINK WE'LL HAVE SOMETHING THAT SUMMARIZES IT AND, YOU KNOW, GIVES SOME HEADLINES THERE, BUT I THINK INCLUDING THAT ENTIRE REPORT IN THE -- OR SOMEHOW ATTACHING THAT SO THAT YOU GUYS HAVE IT.
>> KNOWING THAT THE INTERNAL CONTROLS YOU'RE PUTTING IN PLACE, WHEN YOU'RE IDENTIFYING SOMEBODY AS GOING TO NEED AN ADDITIONAL APPROPRIATION OR A TRANSFER FROM ONE LINE ITEM, YOU'RE GOING TO BRING THAT TO US EARLIER IN THE YEAR THAN THE END OF THE YEAR.
I THINK ALL OF THOSE THINGS COMBINED WILL GIVE US A LOT OF INSIGHT INTO THE WORKINGS OF WHAT'S HAPPENING WITHIN THE BUDGET.
SEEING NO OTHER QUESTIONS FOR ZAC, IS THERE A MOTION TO RECOMMEND THIS, APPROVAL OF THIS ORDINANCE TO THE FULL COUNCIL?
>> YES, I RECOMMEND TO SEND IT BACK WITH A POSITIVE RECOMMENDATION.
>> MOTION BY COUNCILLOR GREEN, DO WE HAVE A SECOND?
>> ALL OF THOSE IN FAVOR APPROVAL COUNCILLOR GREEN'S
[c. Analysis of Audit Committee]
MOTION, SAY AYE. MOTION CARRIES.NEXT, ANALYSIS OF THE AUDIT COMMITTEE, AS THE COMMITTEE MEMBER, COUNCILLOR LOCKE IS WORKING WITH THE AUDIT COMMITTEE AND WILL BE BRINGING BACK A REPORT AND SOME IDEAS ON WHAT SHAPE THE AUDIT COMMITTEE TAKES PLACE OR WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE IN THE FUTURE OR RECOMMENDED CHANGES AT OUR NEXT MEETING.
I DID HAVE AN ITEM THAT I WANTED TO REQUEST, MAYBE WE COULD HAVE IT AT THE NEXT -- A REPORT AT THE NEXT FINANCE MEETING OR JUST SIMPLY EMAIL IT OUT TO US. WE GOT A GREAT REPORT FOR THE NEGOTIATED PLACEMENT OF THE GENERAL OBLIGATION BONDS WE ISSUED LAST YEAR. BUT WE DID NOT GET A REPORT ON -- MAYBE I MISSED IT OR DIDN'T SEE IT, ON THE LEASE RENTAL BONDS. WHAT I WANTED TO REALLY LOOK AT WAS THE PERFORMANCE FROM WHO BOUGHT THEM, WHAT RATE THEY CAME IN, HOW MUCH DEMAND THERE WERE FOR THOSE BONDS BETWEEN A NEGOTIATED PLACEMENT AND A COMPETITIVE SALE.
>> I KNOW THE SOURCES ARE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT, BUT SPT VERSUS JUST A TRADITIONAL PROPERTY TAX LEVY.
IT WOULD BE GREAT TO SEE THE PERFORMANCE OF THE SALE OF THAT SECOND BOND ISSUE.
ANY OTHER ITEMS TO COME BEFORE THE FINANCE COMMITTEE? SEEING NONE, MOTION TO ADJOURN. ALL OF THOSE IN FAVOR.
WE'LL ADJOURN
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.