Mar 05, 2025 Land Use and Special Studies Committee Meeting

WE ARE GOING TO OPEN THE MEETING AT 537 OF THE MARCH 5TH LAND USE AND SPECIAL STUDIES COMMITTEE.

[00:00:08]

THE OTHER IS A RESOLUTION REGARDING AMENDMENT TO THE UDO AS IT PERTAINS TO GROUP HOMES.

WE ALSO HAVE A COUPLE OTHER. WE HAVE THE CONTINUED UDO REVIEW AND MICROMOBILITY THAT MICROMOBILITY WE WON'T GET TO TONIGHT.

I WANT TO OPEN WITH AN UPDATE. AND SHANNON, I KNOW I SAID I WAS GOING TO GET THIS TO YOU FRIDAY AND I JUST HAVEN'T.

[Additional Item]

IT WILL BE MY INTENT TO EMAIL THIS OUT EVERY TWO WEEKS WITH UPDATES IF WHETHER THERE ARE ANY OR NOT.

SO 136 IRONWOOD WAITING ON A SECOND APPRAISAL TO ACQUIRE THE WHAT WE KNOW AS THE POOL PROPERTY. THAT WILL THAT IS, THE DESIGNER HAS BEEN SELECTED.

THEY'LL HAVE A FEE FOR THAT. WE WILL KNOW WHAT THE LAND COST IS.

WE'LL HAVE A GOOD ENGINEERS PROBABILITY OF COST.

THEN THE CITY WILL CALL MICHAEL KLITZING AND SAY, HEY, HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK YOU CAN DO? YOU NEED FOR THIS? LEFT THE SPACE THAT'S NOT BEING CONSUMED BY THE ROUNDABOUT.

HE WILL GIVE A PRICE AND THEN THAT'LL GIVE WHAT THE PROJECT TOTAL DELTA IS.

THAT ONE IS PROBABLY GOING TO START CONSTRUCTION SUMMER OF 26 TO FALL OF 26, A LITTLE DELAYED BECAUSE OF SOME MAJOR UTILITIES THAT RUN THROUGH THERE.

106TH AND LAKESHORE ROUNDABOUT NEEDS LAND ACQUISITION BUT IS IN DESIGN CONSTRUCTION AS LATE AS FALL OF 26 116TH FROM KEYSTONE TO GRE STUDY UNDER CONTRACT FOR THE STUDY.

CARMEL DRIVE THOROUGHFARE FROM KEYSTONE TO RANGELINE HAS MULTIPLE CONTRACTS UNDER MULTIPLE FIRMS UNDER CONTRACT.

AUTUMN GREENWAY TRAIL DESIGN IS UNDER CONTRACT.

VETERANS TRAIL DESIGN IS UNDER CONTRACT. THE PARK THERE IS STILL BEING DISCUSSED.

THERE WILL BE A PARK. BEAR CREEK. THAT PROCUREMENT PROCESS IS BEING IRONED OUT.

THE 116TH AND RIVER ROAD. UNDER DESIGN, UNDER CONTRACT.

MOST OF IT'S DESIGNED. THE FINAL DESIGN HAS BEEN RELEASED.

THE ALL OF THE FIRE STATION WORK HAS BEEN TURNED OVER TO THE CRC SEE.

FOR THEIR CONSTRUCT, FOR JUSTIN TO HELP IMPLEMENT AND TO SOLVE BUILDING STUFF.

AND THEN. BUT THEY ARE HIRING. THEY ARE ENGAGING AN OWNER'S REP TO HANDLE IT ALL.

AND WHO WILL THEN WORK WITH WHO'S GOING TO DO THE DESIGN AND FOR THE FIRE STATIONS THE DESIGNS FOR THE PATHS ON THE WEST AND NORTHWEST THAT DESIGNER, THAT DESIGN SUPPLEMENT SHOULD BE AT THE NEXT MEETING. I HAVE ASKED FOR A LIST OF ALL OF THE CROSSWALKS THAT ARE CURRENTLY GOING TO BE IN DESIGN.

I HAVE ASKED FOR TO ENSURE THAT THEY ARE ALL GOING TO HAVE THE FLASHING BEACONS, MANUALLY ACTIVATED FLASHING BEACONS.

THERE HAS BEEN A DEFECT IN THE LAST BATCH THAT WERE ORDERED.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE NOTICED THEM ON HAZEL DELL OR YOU'VE NOTICED ON TOWN, BUT THEY RUN ALL THE TIME. YEAH. SO I STRESS THAT, LIKE IN THE PAST, HOW WE JUST KIND OF BUY NEW THINGS AND REPLACE THEM LIKE, NO, LIKE THEY NEED TO COME.

THEY NEED TO REPLACE THEM AT NO THEIR COST. HAZEL DELL AND CANTON UNDER CONTRACT FOR DESIGN. CAN I STOP YOU THERE? YEAH. SO UNDER CONTRACT FOR DESIGN, MEANING THAT IT'S.

IT'S JUST THAT YOU HAVEN'T. THERE'S NO SCOPE OF WORK YET.

OR THERE IS A SCOPE. THERE IS A THERE WOULD BE A SCOPING DOCUMENT BY NOW.

OKAY. ALL RIGHT. AND THAT WOULD BE THE FRONT PART OF THE DESIGN CONTRACT THAT I, I CAN GET FOR YOU, OR. THAT'D BE GREAT. ABSOLUTELY. SORRY, I DIDN'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT.

NO. YOU'RE FINE. WHAT'S THE TIMELINE ON THAT? I TALKED TO JEREMY, BUT I JUST WANT TO. I DON'T I DON'T KNOW.

[00:05:02]

PROBABLY WHY DESIGN IS MOVING ALREADY. YEAH. RIVER ROAD STREETSCAPES.

THAT. THAT'S A SORT OF UNDER. THAT'S A MICHAEL KLITZING THING.

THE PEDESTRIAN CROSSWALKS. WOULD YOU ASK FOR A LIST OF THOSE? THOSE HAVE BEEN SEPARATED IN BETWEEN AMONGST THREE FIRMS FOR DESIGN.

GREENWAY TRAIL AND OR BRIDGE AT BOTH LOCATIONS.

CURRENTLY ENGINEERING'S A LITTLE HESITANT TO SPEND FEE ON DESIGN DOLLARS UNTIL THEY KNOW WHAT THE CONSTRUCTION DOLLARS ARE GOING TO BE.

THEY WANTED TO WAIT AT LEAST UNTIL THE NEXT MPO MEETING, BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY HAVE A GOOD CHANCE AT GETTING ONE OF THEM FUNDED. OKAY. THAT'S GREAT. BUT THE TWO FIRMS TO DO THE DESIGN HAVE TENTATIVELY BEEN SELECTED.

I WON'T SAY THEM BECAUSE IT'S TENTATIVE. THE FACILITIES WORKSHOP AT CITY HALL THAT NEEDS SOME LOOKING AT, SINCE THERE'S BEEN SOME MOVING AROUND OF THINGS THAT MAY NOT BE NEEDED ANYMORE.

TRAFFIC STUDY UNDERWAY. PARKING STUDY UNDERWAY.

THE BROOKSHIRE AMENITY UPGRADES, WHICH IS A FANCY WORD FOR A SHADE STRUCTURE AT THE CLUBHOUSE THERE HAS GOTTEN A LITTLE TRICKY BECAUSE THEY'RE UP IN THE AIR ON ADMINISTRATION, AS WE'RE LOOKING AT.

ARE THEY GOING TO DO THE PARKING OR NOT? AND IF THEY'RE GOING TO DO THE PARKING, MAYBE IT SHOULD BE INCLUDED IN THAT PROJECT.

AND BECAUSE THE JUST TO DO IT ALL AT ONCE, WOULD THERE BE ANY VALUE THEN IN MAYBE IF YOU CAN'T DO THE SHADE STRUCTURE OR TEMPORARILY PUTTING IN ONE OF THE SUNSCREEN DISPENSERS IN THAT LOCATION, WHY NOT HELP? THERE SHOULD BE ONE THERE. NO MATTER WHAT SHOULD BE ON THE. WE COULD GET ONE OF THE. WE SHOULD SEE IF WE CAN GET ONE OF OUR DERMATOLOGY COLLEAGUES TO FUND THAT FOR THAT AREA.

I NEED A GOOD THOUGHT. YEAH. DOCTOR JOSHI. NO THAT'S FINE.

DOCTOR. COUNSELOR. COUNSELOR? DOCTOR. ABSOLUTELY.

CITY CENTER. I DON'T HAVE ANY UPDATE ON THE BIG SQUARE.

MAIN STREET FROM FOURTH AVENUE TO RICHLAND AVENUE.

DEVELOPING, DEVELOPING DESIGN. THEY'RE STILL PUSHING FOR SOMETHING ABSURD.

THAT WOULD NEVER BE. I MEAN, IT'S BEAUTIFUL, BUT I DON'T THINK IT WAS OUR INTENT.

AND IT ABOUT TEN TIMES MORE THAN WHAT WE PROGRAMED.

I MEAN, I BELIEVE THAT TERESA'S INTENT WAS FOR ADA AND PEDESTRIAN IMPROVEMENTS THERE, AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE'RE PUSHING FOR.

SO THEY'RE STILL TALKING THROUGH WITH DESIGNER POTENTIAL DESIGNER ON THAT.

AND AT LEAST ON RICHLAND SORRY THAT CONSTRUCTION IS STILL GOING ON HERE.

YOU KNOW FOR THE SCHOOL. SO. RIGHT. I'M JUST THINKING OUT LOUD HERE.

YEAH. ON THAT CORNER SO I DON'T WE MIGHT WANT TO WAIT UNTIL THAT'S DONE.

POSSIBLY. I MEAN THAT'S A GOOD THOUGHT. YEAH, THAT'S A GOOD POINT.

BUT ANYWAY, THAT'S JUST THINKING OUT LOUD. THANKS, MATT.

YEP. THAT'S THE UPDATES I HAVE AT THE MOMENT.

ONE THING IS KIND OF WE TALK THROUGH IS WHO'S WHO'S GOING TO BE THE POINT PERSON FOR THESE PROJECTS.

SO JEREMY SLASH BRAD WILL BE FOR ALL OF THEM.

BUT MICHAEL, THE CARMEL CLAY PARKS DEPARTMENT WILL TAKE OVER PROCUREMENT AND RUNNING VETERANS PARK, BEAR CREEK PARK, IRONWOOD PARK. AND THE RIVER ROAD STREETSCAPE, BECAUSE IT'S NOT REALLY STREETSCAPE.

IT'S MORE TRAIL SCAPE. YEAH. CRC THE FIRE STATIONS MORGAN RINEHART ALL THE FIBER WORK AND SOME OF THE FIRES ASSISTING IN SOME OF THE FIRE STUFF.

BUT THE FIBER STUFF WILL BE HIS BABY. THAT'S WHAT I GOT THERE.

THAT'S GREAT. THANKS FOR THE UPDATE AND I WILL PUT THIS ALL IN AN EMAIL AND SEND IT OUT.

I'M SORRY, I JUST HAVE NOT GOTTEN TO IT. THANK YOU, I APPRECIATE IT.

IT'S ON THE RECORD. SORRY. THE GROUP HOME ORDINANCE.

[b. Resolution CC-02-03-25-07; A Resolution of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Recommending Consideration of an Amendment to the Unified Development Ordinance for the City and Referring the Same to the Carmel Plan Commission for Recommendation; Sponsor(s): Councilor(s) Aasen, Snyder and Taylor.]

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THANK YOU. AND SENT TO OUR COMMITTEE. WE DID NOT DISCUSS IT.

WE WERE AWAITING SOME FURTHER INFORMATION, SOME DECISIONS.

THOSE DECISIONS HAVE BEEN MADE. SO NOW'S THE TIME TO.

MOVE THIS FORWARD. DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY CONCERNS? FIRST OFF, WITH ANYTHING WRITTEN? NO, BUT I HAVE A QUESTION.

IT'S MORE OF A SURROGATE QUESTION. SERGEI, ON THE TERMS OF THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION PERMIT GRANTED TO A GROUP HOME SHALL BE 20 YEARS.

IS THAT STATUTE? IS THAT STATUTORY? IS THAT WHAT Y 20? IT IS CURRENTLY WRITTEN IN THE ORDINANCE. THAT WAY.

OKAY. SORRY. SAY AGAIN. IT IS CURRENTLY WRITTEN IN THE ORDINANCE.

I'M NOT REALLY SURE WHY THERE'S 20 YEAR TERM.

I CAN LOOK IT UP. YEAH, BECAUSE, I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND SOMEBODY PUTS A LOT OF MONEY INTO REFURBISHING OR REDOING OR BUILDING A GROUP HOME. I BELIEVE THE ORDINANCE ALSO HAS A PROVISION THAT MODIFIES THAT TO LAST FIVE 1015. IT REALLY IS JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE OPERATING AS THEY ARE AND NOT A NUISANCE.

YEAH. AND WHAT DO YOU CONSIDER A NUISANCE? WELL, IF WE GET COMPLAINTS, YOU KNOW, FROM THE NEIGHBORS, YOU KNOW. AND, YOU KNOW, LIKE, ONCE IN TEN YEARS.

PROBABLY NOT A BIG DEAL. BUT, YOU KNOW, IF WE GET IT, 2 OR 3 COMPLAINTS A YEAR, I MEAN, THEY'RE A BAD ACTOR AND PROBABLY A RENEWAL WOULD BE NOT WELL RECEIVED LIKE IT. SO THEY HAVE THEY HAVE TO COME FOR A RENEWAL CURRENTLY EVERY 20 YEARS.

IS THAT WHAT I JUST HEARD? UNLESS AND I THINK IT'S DOWN I THINK WE WE THERE'S BEEN AN INSTANCE WHERE IT'S, IT'S BEEN LIMITED TO LESS THAN 22. AND I THINK IN FACT, MOST OF THEM HAVE BEEN LIMITED TO FIVE YEAR TERM, FIVE YEARS. I THINK WE SHOULD CHANGE. JUST MAKE IT THAT.

YEAH. JUST CHANGE IT. YEAH. YEAH. I THINK IT JUST GIVES US THE OPPORTUNITY TO ENSURE THAT THE SAFETY STANDARDS ARE BEING MET AND THAT PEOPLE ARE BEING WELL CARED FOR, BECAUSE THAT'S REALLY ULTIMATELY WHAT I THINK ALL OF US ARE INTERESTED IN IS MAKING SURE THAT THE RESIDENTS OF THESE HOMES ARE SAFE AND THEY'RE CARED FOR, AND THAT THAT FIVE YEAR TERM WOULD ALLOW FOR THEM TO KIND OF SHOW HOW THEY'VE DEMONSTRATED THEIR ABILITY TO DO THAT.

NOW, DOES THAT INCLUDE AN INSPECTION TO MAKE SURE THAT THE SAFETY MECHANISMS THAT ARE WITHIN THE HOUSE ARE STILL FUNCTIONAL, OR IS THAT JUST A YOU HAVEN'T GOTTEN ANY COMPLAINTS.

SO WE'LL WE'RE NOT THERE YET. BUT AND I'LL ASK SERGEY, I MEAN, SHOULD THAT BE BAKED INTO THIS TOO, THAT BECAUSE WE DON'T REALLY HAVE A RENEWAL PROCESS PER SE.

IT WOULD JUST BE THEY WOULD FILE A SHORT TERM RENTAL.

YEAH. WE I DON'T THINK WE HAVE A SINGLE GROUP HOME THAT HAS LAPSED YET.

RIGHT. WE HAVE NEVER HAD A REAPPLICATION FOR THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION.

WELL, AND MOST OF THE ONES THAT EXIST TODAY PREDATE THE RIGHT.

PREDATE THE ORDINANCE? YEAH. YEAH. SO THEY'RE BASICALLY GRANDFATHERED IN WITH THAT.

BUT TO MATT'S POINT, I THINK GOING FORWARD, I THINK AN INSPECTION, I AGREE IS, IS THAT ANNUAL ANNUAL SAFETY INSPECTION OR YOU KNOW, IF THIS ONE IS IS AN IMPORTANT POINT WHERE GROUP HOMES ARE CONSIDERED RESIDENTIAL USES.

SO YOU CANNOT IMPLEMENT ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS THAT YOU WOULDN'T IMPLEMENT ON OTHER SIMILARLY SITUATED RESIDENTIAL USES.

SO I CAN LOOK INTO THE INSPECTIONS. BUT AS OF RIGHT NOW, I'M A LITTLE BIT HESITANT TO JUST HAVE IT ACROSS THE BOARD.

MAYBE JUST A RENEWAL. A RENEWAL JUST FOR RENEWAL.

SURE. YEAH. YEAH. FOR RENEWAL. I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT. THAT'S THAT'S A LICENSING REQUIREMENT.

RIGHT? SO IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. BUT AS FAR AS SINGLING OUT GROUP HOMES FOR ANNUAL INSPECTIONS GO, LET'S GO. IN MY OPINION IT WOULD GO A LITTLE TOO FAR.

AND WHO WOULD BE THE PERSON TO. BUT I THINK THE FIRE, FIRE, FIRE SHOULD BE THERE.

AND CODE ENFORCEMENT. YEAH, RIGHT. CODE ENFORCEMENT? YEAH, BUT FIRE IS REALLY IMPORTANT. YEAH. YEAH.

WHAT WHAT DEFINES. SO I'M SETTING UP A SIMPLE QUESTION HERE.

WHAT DEFINES A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY? BUSINESS BEING RUN OUT OF IT.

AND I KNOW. YEAH. OKAY. SO I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, THAT IT IS CONSIDERED RESIDENTIAL,

[00:15:08]

THAT WOULD DEFINE IT THE WAY IT'S RUN IS A DIFFERENT INQUIRY ENTIRELY.

SO IT'S WHAT WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT IS FAIR HOUSING ACT.

AND SO THE FAIR HOUSING ACT DOES NOT HAVE A DISTINCTION BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, COMMERCIAL USE VERSUS RESIDENTIAL.

AND WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ONE USE ONLY. SO THAT'S WHY THAT'S WHY IT'S JUST IT'S WE HAVE TO LOOK AT IT FROM A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE.

OPENING MYSELF UP TO THAT. BUT IT'S JUST IN GENERAL LIKE KERRY ROAD, KERRY AND GRAY.

YEAH, I'M STILL HERE. SMOKEY ROAD. SORRY. SMOKEY ROAD AND KERRY.

SORRY. IS THAT CONSIDERED. IS IT. ARE WE. IT'S.

IT'S A GROUP HOME. YEAH. SO IT IT IT WAS BUILT BEFORE WE HAD AN ORDINANCE THAT CREATED THE PROCESS.

THERE'S A STAFF THERE ASSISTING. YES. OKAY. YEAH.

THIS IS IT'S IT'S A MEMORY CARE. THAT'S A MEMORY CARE.

YEAH. SO IS THAT CONSIDERED COMMERCIAL? SORRY.

YEAH, RIGHT. YEAH. NO, I MEAN, NO, I DON'T THINK IT IS CONSIDERED COMMERCIAL.

IT BLOWS MY MIND THAT IT'S NOT RIGHT. BUT THAT IS WHAT WE'VE BEEN TOLD.

I MEAN, THEY HAD TO BUILD A PARKING LOT. THEY HAD TO BUILD PARKING SPACES.

I MEAN, BUT TO TO MATT'S POINT, I THINK THAT.

OR TO YOUR POINT, MIKE, HAVING A PROCESS BAKED INTO THIS ORDINANCE THAT REQUIRES RENEWAL, RENEWAL, INSPECTION BY FIRE AND CODE ENFORCEMENT COMPLAINTS ON TOP OF IT, WHATEVER NUISANCE LAWS THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THAT THAT WOULD BE TRACKED. SO THAT WOULD BE EASY TO ASCERTAIN, BUT THEY'D HAVE A PARKING INSIDE.

YEAH. WELL THEY OPERATE I'M SORRY. AND I WILL KEEP THIS VERY SHORT, BUT THEY OPERATE LIKE A COMMERCIAL BUILDING BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO HAVE EXITS IN ORDER, AND THEY HAVE TO HAVE A WAY TO GET OUT OF THIS GROUP.

HOME ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY, WHATEVER IT IS.

SO. I GUESS I'M JUST SAYING THAT OUT LOUD, BUT IT'S A VALID QUESTION.

AND THOSE REGULATIONS AND THE WAY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND STATE GOVERNMENT IN TURN, HAVE EVOLVED, HOW THEY LOOK AT GROUP HOMES OVER TIME AND THE BEGINNING OF GROUP HOMES, WHAT WE KNOW IS GROUP HOMES NOW KIND OF ORIGINATED IN THE LATE 90S. AND AT THAT POINT, IT WAS IT WAS REALLY A NEW CONCEPT BECAUSE BEFORE THAT IT WAS EITHER, YOU KNOW, NURSING HOME OR GROUP HOME FOR CERTAIN TYPES OF GROUP POPULATION GROUPS, BE IT A CHILDREN'S GROUP HOME OR RECOVERING ADDICTION, GROUP HOMES, ETC. THE WHOLE IDEA OF A RETIREMENT TYPE GROUP HOME IS REALLY FAIRLY NEW.

I MEAN, IT'S STILL THAT'S WHY WE STILL HAVE SO MANY QUESTIONS ABOUT IT.

AND SO OVER TIME, SINCE KIND OF LATE 90S TILL TODAY, THOSE REGULATIONS HAVE EVOLVED HEAVILY.

SO NOW THAT'S WHY WE DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THE SIZE OF GROUP HOMES AS WELL, WHERE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DID REALIZE THAT AT A CERTAIN POINT, YOU CANNOT ARGUE THAT THIS IS A RESIDENTIAL USE BECAUSE IT'S JUST SIMPLY TOO BIG.

IT'S MORE AKIN TO A DORMITORY, MORE AKIN TO A FRATERNAL INSTITUTION OR WHAT HAVE YOU.

BUT IT'S NOT A SINGLE FAMILY HOUSE. TO YOUR POINT, THOUGH, TO SAFETY OR SAFETY OF THE RESIDENTS AND ALL THE OTHER THINGS KICK IN AS WELL.

AND THEN THE BUILDING CODE HAS EVOLVED AS WELL.

AND THE FIRE CODE, WHERE DISTINCTIONS BETWEEN CLASS ONE AND CLASS TWO STRUCTURES, ETC.

AND BEYOND PUT CERTAIN GROUP HOMES IN OTHER CATEGORIES, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU CAN REGULATE THEM MORE FROM THE BUILDING CODE PERSPECTIVE FROM THE FIRE CODE PERSPECTIVE. SO IN REGULATION OF THOSE FAIRLY NEW USES, WE HAVE TO CONSIDER ALL OF THOSE FACTORS, AND IT'S KIND OF ONE BRICK AT A TIME. AND WE WERE REALLY HOPING FOR A SUPREME COURT DECISION ON WILLOW HAVEN, BUT UNFORTUNATELY WE JUST DIDN'T GET WHAT WE HOPED FOR.

AND IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN IF IT WILL GO THROUGH THE COURTS AGAIN.

I HOPE IT DOES, BUT BUT IT IS ANOTHER BRICK IN IN CONSIDERATION, AT LEAST IN THE STATE OF INDIANA, WHERE THE SUPREME COURT SAID, YEP ADA IS A FAIR CONCERN.

FAIR HOUSING ACT IS A FAIR CONCERN. SEVENTH CIRCUIT JURISPRUDENCE, FAIR CONCERN, BUT ITS APPLICATION AND DEGREE OF PROTECTION,

[00:20:08]

ANYWAY, HERE UNDER 248 AND THE APPLICATION FOR THE RENEWAL OF A SPECIAL EXEMPTION EXCEPTION THAT COMPLIES WITH THE REQUIREMENTS OF ARTICLE 5.72 SHALL GENERALLY BE ENTITLED TO FAVORABLE CONSIDERATION, SO LONG AS IT IS NOT OPPOSED BY THE DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY SERVICES.

ALSO, I MEAN AND PASSES OR HAS COMPLIED WITH AS PART OF ITS RENEWAL PROCESS, A FIRE, YOU KNOW, SAFETY PLAN, WHATEVER, HOWEVER WE WANT TO STRUCTURE THAT.

YEAH. I MEAN, AS A DOCTOR AND JUST AS A DOCTOR, WOULDN'T YOU? I MEAN, IF YOUR MOTHER WAS IN THERE, I WOULD WANT MY MOTHER TO BE ABLE TO GET OUT OF A GROUP HOME IN THE INSTANCE OF A FIRE WITHOUT DELAY.

I WOULD ALSO LIKE EMS SERVICES TO BE ABLE TO LOCATE HER WITHIN THE GROUP HOME WITHOUT DELAY.

I WOULD LIKE THERE TO BE SOME ABILITY TO IDENTIFY PEOPLE IN NEED OF CARE AND SERVICES WITHOUT DELAY.

SO I THINK THAT IS THOSE ARE ALL THE KEY PIECES, RIGHT? SO THE ABILITY ALSO SORRY, SOMEBODY THAT IS ENTERING LIKE IF I GO TO THIS FACILITY, I'M LIKE, OH, I'M SEEING MY GRANDMOTHER OR MY, MY MOM. AND THAT IS THEIR SAFETY.

WHO'S REGULATING? YEAH. SORRY. YEAH. NO NO NO, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.

WHO'S WHAT YOU'RE ASKING IS WHO'S REGULATING, WHO'S COMING AND GOING.

RIGHT. THAT'S YOUR AND THAT'S AN EXCELLENT POINT.

SO I THINK ALL OF THOSE FALL UNDER THAT KIND OF SAFETY AND CONCERN FOR THE RESIDENTS CATEGORY THAT WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO ADDRESS HERE AS, AS, AS A COUNCIL, AS GOOD CITIZENS TO CARE FOR PEOPLE.

RIGHT. SO THIS IS WHAT IT'S ABOUT. IT'S ABOUT CARING FOR THOSE WHO, YOU KNOW, MAY NEED OR WANT A GROUP HOME SITUATION, BUT SHOULD BE PROTECTED FROM ANY PREDATORY PRACTICES OR WRONGFUL INTENT.

YEAH. I MEAN, IT'D BE NICE IF WE COULD EVEN PUT MORE STRINGENT STANDARDS ON IT, BUT, YOU KNOW, LIKE THE ONE THAT OCCURRED OVER ON HORSESHOE, THAT WAS A RETROFIT OF A TWO LEVEL HOME.

I MEAN, THAT WAS IT WAS RIDICULOUS. YEAH. WELL, YOU'RE A CHAIRLIFT.

YEAH, I KNOW EXACTLY. I MEAN, HOW DO YOU GET A SIX RESIDENTS ON THE SECOND FLOOR? HOW DO YOU GET A CHAIRLIFT? YEAH, IN A FIRE. ONE OF THOSE, YOU KNOW, SINGLE SEAT.

YEAH. NO, THAT GOES INTO A HOME, BUT IT'S NOT REALLY INTENDED.

YEAH, RIGHT. SO, I MEAN, IF, IF, IF IT COULD BE SOMETHING REALLY STRINGENT INSOMUCH THAT IT'S WE NEED TO SEE A, THE FIRE DEPARTMENT WOULD NEED TO SEE A PLAN FOR EVACUATION, YOU KNOW, CLEAR STRUCTURES THAT WOULD WORK ON THAT.

YEAH. I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THAT. AND AN EMERGENCY PLAN, WHATEVER THAT MAY LOOK LIKE.

THEY'RE THE EXPERTS. WE'RE NOT. WHILE ANITA IS.

NO, NO, NOT BY ANY MEANS ON CONSTRUCTION, I JUST.

BUT NO. I MEAN, FOR THE SAFETY FACTORS, YOU KNOW THAT PIECE.

SO IF YOU COULD YOU TAKE A LIKE THE HORSESHOE.

ONE IS AN EXAMPLE THOUGH. AND YOU TAKE A, A HOUSE WITH A SECOND FLOOR WITH I DON'T KNOW WHEN THAT WAS BUILT.

TWO BY TENS MAYBE FOR THE. NO. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN TWO BY FOUR CONSTRUCTION.

I MEAN IT WAS BUILT IN THE 70S FOR THE FOUR SIDES.

OH FOR THE FOUR FOR THE. YEAH FOR JOYCE. JOYCE.

IT PROBABLY TWO BY 10 OR 12. YEAH. BUT IT'S DESIGNED FOR, FOR SPECIFIC USE.

IT'S NOT DESIGNED FOR SIX HOSPITAL BEDS, MOBILE ELECTRIC WHEELCHAIRS, ALL OF THE DEAD LOAD THAT JUST COMES WITH OPERATING A.

SO I DON'T THINK IT WOULD BE INAPPROPRIATE TO SAY IT'S ON THE RETROFITS THAT A STRUCTURAL ENGINEER HAS TO SIGN OFF ON THE ON THE LOAD.

ON THE LOAD. THAT'S GREAT MAN. IT'S A GREAT IT'S A GREAT POINT.

THAT'S GREAT. IT'S A GREAT POINT BECAUSE THAT'S VERY DIFFICULT.

I MEAN, YOU'RE RIGHT. IF YOU'RE MANAGING YOU KNOW, PAY PATIENTS BASICALLY THERE ARE SOME.

AND THAT'S ANOTHER THING TO KEEP IN MIND IS ONE OF THEM.

AND WE DO COLLECT THIS INFORMATION. DO YOU SEE AS DOES THE TYPE OF GROUP HOME FACILITY BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY OF THEM RIGHT NOW.

THERE ARE SOME THAT MEMORY CARE SPECIFIC OR SOME THAT JUST KIND OF UNRELATED ADULTS LIVING TOGETHER THAT ARE A LITTLE BIT OLDER BUT NOT YET DISABLED. AND THERE'S CHILDREN. ANYTHING IN BETWEEN?

[00:25:01]

YEAH. THESE ARE REGULATED BY THE STATE. SO THOSE ARE OKAY.

SO THOSE ARE COMPLETELY YEAH. VERY SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDED FROM EVEN FEDERAL REGULATIONS, FEDERAL GROUP HOME REGULATIONS.

OKAY. AND THAT'S BEEN CLEAR FROM VERY EARLY ON.

MY PEDIATRIC HEART FEELS BETTER NOW. BUT BECAUSE IT THERE'S A LOT OF ISSUES WITH PROTECTION OF MINORS.

OF COURSE. YEAH. OF COURSE. YES. OF COURSE. SO LET ME I WANT TO SPEAK TO THAT AS WELL BECAUSE THERE IS THERE'S ONE THAT I USED TO LIVE BY AND IT WAS MORE GEARED TOWARDS SUBSTANCE ABUSE.

OKAY. NOW I HAVE ZERO INTENT. ACTUALLY, THIS COULD APPLY TO EVERY DEMOGRAPHIC, SO I DON'T MEAN TO BE. MY POINT IS, IS THAT HOUSE IS DIRECTLY NEXT DOOR TO A CHURCH, AND THERE ARE CERTAIN DEMOGRAPHICS THAT LEND THEMSELVES MORE TO BEING SEX OFFENDERS, WHICH IS NOT ALLOWED TO BE WITHIN 1000FT OF A CHURCH.

SO WHO'S REGULATING THAT? LIKE I, I DON'T THINK ALSO IT WOULD BE IMPRUDENT TO WHEN A NEW PATIENT COMES IN THAT A BACKGROUND CHECK MUST BE DONE AND SUBMITTED TO THE CITY.

HALFWAY HOUSE. ISN'T THAT WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO? THIS IS ALSO A SEPARATE CATEGORY. NO, BECAUSE THERE IS A GROUP HOME THAT WE HAVE LISTED THAT I SUBSTANCE ABUSE.

HOWEVER, THAT THAT ONE GETS A LITTLE BIT MORE INTERESTING.

OKAY. MY POINT STILL STANDS THOUGH. YOU COULD BE 90 YEARS OLD AND BE A REGISTERED HAS A COUNTY ISSUE THOUGH IS THAT MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT SEX OFFENSES ARE REGULATED BY. I MAY BE WRONG. I'M ASKING THE QUESTION.

I DON'T KNOW WHO REGULATES THE WHO, COUNTY OR STATE.

OKAY. I'M JUST I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEN WE, YOU KNOW, AS WE'RE ADDRESSING ALL OF THESE ISSUES, THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET HIT ON THE. THAT'S YOUR JOB.

IT'S AN EXTENSION OF JUST CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

OKAY. BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO BE CONVICTED FIRST IN ORDER TO BE ON THE.

RIGHT. RIGHT, RIGHT. YOU'RE ON THE LIST. BUT WHAT HE'S SAYING IS, IF YOU'RE ALREADY ON THE LIST, THEN YOU HAVE TO DECLARE THAT YOU'RE ON THE LIST. AND THAT IS IT. THAT'S THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING. IS THAT A COUNTY THING? IS IT A CITY THING? IS IT A HOW DOES THAT GET DONE? IT'S NOT REGULATED BY THE STATE. IT'S IT'S A IT'S IF I WERE TO GUESS, PROBABLY A STATE STATE REGULATION.

OKAY. BUT THAT WOULD BE. YEAH. NO, I DON'T THINK SO.

I DON'T KNOW. YOU'RE ON THE LIST. I JUST THE STATE REGISTRY.

YEAH, THE STATE REGISTRY. BUT I THINK BECAUSE I GOT SOMEBODY MOVED IN NEAR ME, I THINK IT'S AND THEY HAD TO GO AND THEY WENT A LETTER WENT COUNTY DOES IT.

AND THEN THIS INDIVIDUAL ACTUALLY WENT TO EVERYBODY'S HOUSE AND EXPLAINED THE SITUATION TO.

AND I WAS LIKE, HE WAS 18. I MEAN THE GUY WHATEVER.

LIKE THAT ONE DIDN'T. BUT BUT DO THESE BECOME THE PRIMARY RESIDENCE FOR THESE PATIENTS? THAT'S I GUESS THAT IS WHAT MY QUESTION IS. I DON'T REALLY HAVE A STATISTICS ON THAT, BECAUSE IF IT IF IT'S NOT, THEN THERE IS NOTHING FORCING THEM. AND I DO BELIEVE IT'S THE CITY'S OBLIGATION TO HAVE AN ACCOUNTING OF WHO IS LIVING IN THESE TEMPORARY.

POSITIONS. ALL OF THEM. SORRY, I'M NOT GOING TO DO IT TODAY.

KEEP TRACK OF SEX OFFENDERS. WELL, IT'S CRIMINAL RECORD AT ALL.

I MEAN, I'M JUST SAYING. RIGHT. JUST A BACKGROUND CHECK SO THE COMMUNITY KNOWS WHO IS LIVING NEXT DOOR.

BECAUSE IT'S NOT THEIR PERMANENT RESIDENCE, I DON'T BELIEVE.

I DOUBT. I JUST. I DOUBT IT. HOW DOES IT. HOW WOULD THAT FIT INTO SECTION FOUR? ACTUALLY, THE QUESTION WITH GROUP HOMES, HOUSING DEVELOPMENT, MAINTAINING A LICENSE FROM THE INDIANA DIVISION OF DISABILITY REHAB SERVICES, THE INDIANA DIVISION OF MENTAL HEALTH AND ADDICTION.

WHAT ARE THEIR REQUIREMENTS? AND DO WE KNOW, LIKE, DID THAT HELP TO ADDRESS SOME OF THIS WHEN YOU WROTE THAT? OR ARE THESE STILL QUESTIONS THAT ARE NOT ADDRESSED THROUGH THESE CERTAIN TYPES OF GROUP HOMES? AND THIS ORDINANCE ADDRESSES SOME OF THEM ARE REGULATED BY THE STATE.

SO IF YOU HAVE DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU PROVIDE SERVICES FOR THOSE INDIVIDUALS.

IT'S REGULATED BY THE STATE. OKAY. FOR CHILDREN OBVIOUSLY THAT'S.

NO, THAT'S COMPLETELY SEPARATE. SUBSTANCE ABUSE.

SAME THING. SO THERE ARE CERTAIN TYPES OF GROUP HOMES THAT HAVE SPECIFIC STATUTORY PROVISIONS AND BOARDS THAT REGULATE THEM.

YOU HAVE TO. SO WE ARE MAKING SURE THAT THOSE TYPES OF GROUP HOMES DO OBTAIN THOSE LICENSES.

OKAY. AND THAT'S ONE OF THE ADDITIONS. SO THAT IS THE ADDITION THAT HELPS TO PROTECT US AS AS CITY.

IT'S DISTINGUISHES BETWEEN THE TYPES, AT LEAST SOME OF THEM THAT ARE SPECIFICALLY REGULATED BY THE STATE.

SO WE CAN RELY ON THAT REGULATION AND INCLUDE IT IN OUR ORDINANCE AS WELL.

OKAY. SO SO IT MAKES IT NARROWER. SO WHAT ELSE DO WE WANT OUT OF THIS DISCUSSION.

[00:30:04]

AND HOW WOULD YOU LOOK AT SERGEY. OR I THINK A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT I THINK A COUPLE YEAH.

YEAH. CAN I ASK ANOTHER QUESTION, THOUGH? IT GOES BACK TO SAFETY.

IN THESE RETROFITTED HOMES TO ANITA'S POINT AND TO EVERYBODY'S POINT, IS THERE A WAY OF REQUIRING THEM TO PUT IN AN ELEVATOR OR SOMETHING THAT WOULD, OR SOME SORT OF INGRESS OR EGRESS? WE CAN CERTAINLY LOOK INTO THAT.

AND THAT WOULD INVOLVE A DISCUSSION WITH CLASSIFICATION OF CERTAIN STRUCTURES.

SO NOT NECESSARILY. UDO RELATED ITEM, BUT MORE BUILDING CODE AND FIRE CODE AND HOW WHAT WHAT REQUIREMENTS ARE APPROPRIATE FOR WHICH TYPE OF STRUCTURE.

BUT AGAIN, IT GOES BACK TO MATT'S POINT, THE LOAD.

IT GOES BACK TO THE AND THERE ARE A COUPLE OF THINGS WE CAN LOOK AT.

AND WE'LL BE HAPPY TO DO THAT. PLEASE, IF YOU DON'T MIND, WE GAVE YOU A BUNCH OF HOMEWORK. SORRY.

ON THE CONSIDERATIONS. ANY UNDUE FINANCIAL BURDEN.

NOW, AS YOU ALL KNOW, I'M A HUGE PROPONENT OF YOU SHOULD ALWAYS CALL 911 NO MATTER WHAT.

BUT IF YOU'RE LIVING IN A GROUP HOME, ONE COULD INTERPRET THAT AS IT IS A COST EFFECTIVE WAY FOR YOU TO GET HELP THAT YOU MAY NOT HAVE INSURANCE. SO IN MANY OF THE RUNS FROM GROUP HOMES WITH ELDERLY ARE MORE TRANSPORT ORIENTED. NOT ALWAYS EMERGENCY, BUT THAT IS THAT IS A COST TO US.

SO THE MEDICARE SHOULD PICK THAT UP. YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT THAT.

MEDICARE SHOULD PICK THAT UP FOR SENIORS. YEAH.

I'M SORRY. YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. AND MEDICAID STILL PICK IT UP FOR IMPACT ON THEIR TIME AND THEIR BUT IT IS IT IS A STRESS ON THE SYSTEM.

I THINK AT THAT POINT IS WELL TAKEN. BUT I DO THINK WE MAYBE WE WOULD HAVE TO SEE WHAT THE REIMBURSEMENT IS FOR THAT TOO, AS WE LOOK AT THAT OTHER WHOLE CAN OF WORMS AS WE DO THAT.

SO I THINK THAT WILL BE I THINK WE'VE GIVEN SERGEI A LOT OF HOMEWORK.

I JUST PLUGGED YOU IN AND THEN SORRY, ANOTHER QUESTION.

IT BECAUSE IT SAID, WHERE DID I READ THIS DECISION WOULD BE SOLELY DONE BY SOLELY MADE BY BCA.

DID I READ THAT SOMEWHERE? YEAH. IT'S IN SECTION THREE.

AND YOU WOULD LOOK AT SEE I THINK SEE. SO LINE 315 BASIC OF REVIEW. BASIS OF REVIEW. OKAY. THERE IT IS.

SO IT STRIKES OUT THE HEARING NO HEARING OFFICER ALLOWED.

NO. SO IT'S A LITTLE OKAY. I DO HAVE A COMMENT ABOUT THIS ACTUALLY, AS IT AS IT'S WRITTEN AND IT'S I DON'T HAVE A PREFERENCE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER AS IT'S WRITTEN RIGHT NOW.

IT ELIMINATES THE HEARING OFFICER PROCESS FOR ALL SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS.

SO NOT ONLY GROUP HOMES, BUT ALSO STRS AND NON DWELLING SHORT TERM RENTALS AS WELL.

IS THAT THE INTENT? I LIKE THAT, I THINK THERE'S A SENTIMENT THAT A SINGLE PERSON SHOULD NOT BE MAKING A DECISION ON ANY OF THIS.

UNDERSTOOD. QUESTION NUMBER TWO IS IT THE SAME SENTIMENT FOR AT VERY LEAST STR RENEWALS BECAUSE THEY OCCUR EVERY YEAR AND ENTITLED TO A FAVORABLE RECOMMENDATION? OR WOULD YOU LIKE TO EXCLUDE THAT SPECIFIC INSTANCE AND KICK IT BACK TO.

WE COULD BECAUSE HONESTLY, I'VE SEEN ENOUGH OF THOSE RENEWALS WHERE THEY COME IN, THEY'VE HAD NO COMPLAINTS.

THE NEIGHBORS DON'T REMONSTRATE OR THEY DO REMONSTRATE AND THEN THEY THEY DECIDE AT THAT POINT.

SO I THINK ONE PERSON MAKING THAT DECISION IS THAT'S PRETTY SIMPLE.

AND THEN YOU GUYS GIVE RECOMMENDATIONS ON WHAT YOU'VE SEEN.

SO SO I THINK THE REASON WHY I ASK IS THAT IT HAPPENS FAIRLY FREQUENTLY.

IT'S ONLY ONE YEAR TERM. RIGHT. SO A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD COME BACK YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR.

BUT AS LONG AS WE DON'T WANT TO LOCK UP COMPLAINTS, IT REALLY IS A VERY EASY APPROVAL.

SO IF SOMETHING PERHAPS FOR YOU TO CONSIDER, IF YOU WANT TO EXCLUDE THAT SPECIFIC INSTANCE OF APPROVAL, KICK IT BACK TO HEARING OFFICER, NOT OVERWHELM THE BCA DOCKET.

I AGREE WITH THAT. I'M COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.

BUT. ON THESE DOCUMENTS, THE WHEREASES DON'T MEAN.

TO RECYCLE. THAT DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING. IT'S THE LANGUAGE.

WE DO INCORPORATE IT USUALLY JUST BECAUSE SOME OF THE WAREHOUSES CONFLICT WITH THE.

HOW I INTERPRET THE ACTUAL LANGUAGE I SAID IT WAS I JUST WENT SO FAR AWAY FROM IT.

[00:35:09]

THAT'S. THAT WAS WHERE I WANTED THE CLARIFICATION ON THE ZONING ONE.

I HAVE THE WAREHOUSES YET. I WANT TO GET TO THE VERY BEGINNING.

OH, OKAY. OH. YEAH. SO SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS ARE APPROVED BY THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS. THAT'S PER STATUTE, BUT BECAUSE IT'S A UDO AMENDMENT, IT HAS TO GO THROUGH PLANNING COMMISSION TO BE INCORPORATED INTO OUR UDO. SO THAT'S WHY BOTH BOTH OF THEM ARE MENTIONED.

OKAY. THAT MAKES SENSE. SO ONE IS AN APPROVING BODY.

THE OTHER ONE IS RECOMMENDING BODY TO COUNCIL ACTING IN ITS ADVISORY CAPACITY WHICH IS PLANNING COMMISSION.

AND THEN THE WHERE IT SAYS RESTRICTING NUMBER IN A GEOGRAPHIC AREA.

THAT I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE FORMAT.

SO THE WHEREAS IS REALLY SAYING THEN YOU NEED TO LOOK TO SEE WHAT IT MEANS.

YEAH. SO BECAUSE WHEREAS SOME ATTORNEYS JUST USE IT A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY, THIS ONE HAVING TAD DRAFTED THIS ONE AND SOME ATTORNEYS USE IT AS A SUMMARY OF WHAT'S TO COME.

AND I USE IT A LITTLE BIT MORE SPARINGLY AND NOT TO REPEAT, BUT IT REALLY IS JUST A MATTER OF PREFERENCE, PREFERENCE OF DRAFTING, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY IF IT'S A SUMMARY, THEN I'M COMPLETELY FINE WITH IT.

I JUST AND SOMETIMES IT'S A EXPLAINS THE PURPOSE AND REASON BEHIND IT OR JUSTIFICATION BEHIND IT.

IT'S SIMPLE ENOUGH. AND SO YOU'VE GOT LIMITATIONS.

YOU'LL CHANGE THAT C TO FIVE AND 20 YEARS TO FIVE.

SORRY. JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THAT IN YOUR NOTES.

WITH THE WHOLE ISSUE OF THE TWO STOREY RETROFIT AND THE ONE ON THE HORSESHOE IS REALLY THE POSTER CHILD, AND WE STRUGGLED WITH THAT FOR A LONG TIME. AND I GUESS, SERGEY, I'M WONDERING WHY, YOU KNOW, IF AT LEAST PART OF THE PREMISE FOR ALL THIS IS ADA, RIGHT? I MEAN, ON A RETROFIT, HOW CAN A BATHROOM THAT DOESN'T MEET ADA BE USED TO ACCOMMODATE, LIKE FOR ADULTS? TWO FOR MAYBE IN A WHEELCHAIR? YEAH.

YEAH. EXCELLENT QUESTION. I MEAN, WHY WHY CAN'T WE? YOU KNOW, WE REGULATE THIS ON I THINK WE MAY.

AND THIS IS DEFINITELY ONE OF THE LIST FOR FOR ME TO ANALYZE, BUT BUILDING COMMISSIONER AND A FIRE MARSHAL, I WOULD BE VERY CURIOUS TO HEAR WHAT THE FIRE MARSHAL THINKS ABOUT ONE CHAIRLIFT FOR EIGHT RESIDENTS ON A FIRST CHAIR ON THE SECOND FLOOR OF A RETROFIT HOUSE. I MEAN, IT PUTS OUR PEOPLE IN DANGER TO GET A GURNEY UPSTAIRS.

YEAH. YOU KNOW, 100% PUTS OUR PEOPLE IN BECAUSE THE AMOUNT OF TRIPS TO GO CARRY SOMEBODY IS DIRECTLY CORRELATED TO THE AMOUNT OF BACK INJURIES AND TIME OFF AND GETTING COLLAPSED. CAUGHT? I MEAN, YEAH, CARCINOGENS BEING BREATHED IN.

IF YOU'VE EVER BEEN INSIDE MY HOME, YOU'D SEE MY MY HOUSE IS LIKE HORSESHOE AND MY STEPS GOING UP JUST BARELY ENOUGH FOR, YOU KNOW, TO GET MY, MY ELBOWS OUT. SO THEY SHOULD HAVE TO HAVE LIKE, THE, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU ESCAPE FROM AN AIRPLANE AND THAT BIG THING COMES OUT THE SIDE WINDOW OR HAVE A LADDER. OH, WAIT, THEY CAN'T CLIMB.

THEY MIGHT BE CLIMB THE LADDER LIKE I HAVE IN MINE. I MEAN, SO MANY THINGS.

YEAH. IT'S JUST THE ADA, THE ADA ASPECTS. I THINK IF WE CAN INCORPORATE THAT IN THE LANGUAGE THAT STATES THAT THEY HAVE TO COMPLY, ESPECIALLY RETROFITS THAT THEY HAVE TO COMPLY TO ALL STATE, FEDERAL OR SORRY FEDERAL, STATE AND LOCAL CODE.

BECAUSE WE EXPECT OUR BUILDERS TO DO THAT WHEN THEY BUILD ANYTHING OUTSIDE OF TYPICAL HOUSING.

IF IT'S COMMERCIAL, YEAH, COMMERCIAL. YEAH. THIS IS PURPOSE BUILT IN A WAY.

OR THE RETROFIT IS PURPOSEFUL. YEAH. YEAH, YEAH.

SO, WELL, YOU GOT YOUR WORK CUT OUT FOR YOU, SERGEI, IF I MAY ADDRESS A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT I HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF CONCERN.

WE TALKED ABOUT THE 3000FT FROM MY RESEARCH WITH NATIONAL, AND I HESITATE TO CALL IT A STANDARD BECAUSE IT'S NOT IT IS. MORE ORDINANCES THAN NOT THAT DISTANCE IS 1000FT OR BELOW.

IT'S IT'S JUST A CONSIDERATION BECAUSE THERE IS GUIDANCE FROM BOTH THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND JOINT

[00:40:04]

BUT A GOING RATE IF YOU WILL, IS ABOUT 2000FT.

BUT IF YOU LOOK AT IT THAT WAY, YOU LOOK AT AT VILLAGE OF WEST CLAY, 1000FT IN THE VILLAGE OF WEST CLAY WOULD BE YOU CAN HAVE AS MANY GROUP HOMES IN THERE AS YOU WANTED. I UNDERSTAND.

I'M JUST. YEAH, I'M JUST SAYING, I KNOW I GET IT, BUT I'M SAYING IS.

YEAH. SHOULD REMAIN. BUT I ALSO THINK IT'S HOW WE IDENTIFY OR AT LEAST IDENTIFY A NEIGHBORHOOD LIKE LIKE IN INDIANAPOLIS.

THEY'VE MOVED TO THEIR DISTRICTS, ARE NOW THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS, REGARDLESS OF.

SO WE'VE GOT FLOWER DISTRICT, WE'VE GOT HELL.

I DON'T KNOW THEM ALL, BUT I MEAN, THAT COULD BE WHAT WHAT WE ARE CONSIDERING A NEIGHBORHOOD.

I AND SOMEBODY ASKED TO SET A NEW STANDARD, SO WHY NOT US? WE DO EVERYTHING ELSE. GREAT. YEAH, YEAH. IF SOMEBODY I MEAN 3500 I WOULD AGREE 4000.

IT'S 5281 MILE. I'M GOOD WITH THAT. 5000. YEAH.

JUST WE'LL SETTLE THERE. FIVE. YEAH. AND SO ANOTHER ONE.

AND THIS ONE I, I STRONGLY RECOMMEND REMOVING IT IS A LINE 326 WHICH IS A CATCHALL PROVISION WHICH WE FREQUENTLY INCLUDE IN THIS TYPE OF CONSIDERATIONS. BUT IT IS A BASIS FOR REVIEW FOR BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS MEMBERS.

AND IT REQUIRES A REVIEW OF ALL APPLICABLE STATE AND FEDERAL LAW, WHICH IS SIMPLY UNREALISTIC FOR A LAYPERSON TO REVIEW.

IT'S NOT FAIR. IT WOULD BE FINE TO HAVE A CATCHALL PROVISION ON THE PETITIONER TO COMPLY WITH ALL APPLICABLE STATE LAWS, BUT NOT THE BCA. BUT NOT BCA MEMBERS TO CONSIDER ALL OF THEM.

BUT WE WE ENABLE BCA THEN TO USE YOU TO RESEARCH ALL OF THAT.

AND THEN THAT BECOMES A BURDENSOME EXPENSE. YEAH.

WHAT I'M SAYING IS EVEN THE BEST ATTORNEY IN THE WORLD WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO KNOW ALL APPLICABLE STATE AND FEDERAL REGULATION THAT COMES DOWN. LET'S PUT IT ON THE PETITIONER, LET ALONE THE BCA MEMBER.

IT LEAVES IT OPEN TO CHALLENGE, IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? EXACTLY. THAT THERE'S NO POINT IN PUTTING SOMETHING IN THAT WE KNOW IS GOING TO BE EASILY. IT'S AN EASY IT'S AN EASY PROCEDURAL CHALLENGE. I THINK IT JUST NEEDS TO BE THE BURDEN NEEDS TO BE SHIFTED FROM BCA TO PETITIONER.

AND THAT'S THAT IS A STRONG RECOMMENDATION OF MINE.

I AGREE. I'M COMFORTABLE WITH THAT? DO YOU AGREE, THERESA? YES, I'M FINE WITH THAT. I'M GOING TO JUST SAY LOCAL.

THAT'S NOT THAT DIFFICULT, ESPECIALLY IF WE'RE LOOKING AT CHANGING SOME OF OUR LOCAL LAWS AS IT PERTAINS TO STRUCTURE TYPE.

NOT NECESSARILY IN THIS, BUT. THAT IS A LITTLE BIT MORE PALATABLE.

INSTEAD OF THINKING ABOUT THAT AS WELL. YEAH, YEAH.

BECAUSE THAT COVERS US, RIGHT. FOR OUR LOCAL ORDINANCES, ORDINANCES.

THEY HAVE TO FOLLOW OUR ORDINANCES. WELL, YEAH. THAT'S, THAT'S A THAT'S A GIVEN.

WELL, I KNOW, BUT IT'S NICE TO HAVE IT IN THERE. JUST PUT IT IN THERE SINCE IT'S SO.

I THINK THESE ARE THE THESE ARE THE BIG TWO THINGS THAT I WANTED TO MENTION.

ALL RIGHT. AND THE THIRD ONE WAS THAT IT'S. THIS ORDINANCE ELIMINATES STRS ESTERS FROM HEARING OFFICER ACCOMMODATION AND HEARING OFFICER. RENEWALS. RENEWAL. ESTERS AS IN ALL OF THEM.

SO NOW IF IT'S IF I HEARD YOU CORRECTLY, WE'RE GOING TO REMOVE STOP THE FIRST APPLICATION FOR CR2 FULL BCA.

YEAH. BUT KEEP RENEWALS WITH HEARING SEPARATE.

YEAH. UNDERSTOOD. NOW WE'RE GETTING CLOSE TO YOUR HARD STOPS.

SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PUSH THIS TO THE NEXT MEETING.

I THINK THE NEXT ONE DID WE WANT TO REVIEW WHAT YOU I DON'T KNOW DID YOU.

YOU'RE READY TO WHATEVER DID YOU WANT TO REVIEW.

WHAT ELSE WAS ON THIS? AT LEAST I HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO EXPLAIN MY REASONING BEHIND THE NEXT, IF THAT'S OKAY. GO AHEAD. SO THIS IS A FAIRLY SUBSTANTIVE AMENDMENT THAT YOU ALL TALKED ABOUT AND TASKED US WITH THE AMENDING THE PUD PUTTY SECTIONS, SPECIFICALLY SECTIONS FOUR AND NINE OF FIVE.

BY INCORPORATING AND INCLUDING A REQUIREMENT FOR PETITIONERS TO SUBMIT CERTAIN DOCUMENTATION AND AND

[00:45:05]

AND THEN COUNSEL JUST SAYS, HEY, WE'RE NOT APPROVING THIS.

THIS IS JUST NOT SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD APPROVE BECAUSE IT'S A LEGISLATIVE ACT.

IT'S WITHIN YOUR. THAT IS CERTAINLY WITHIN YOUR RIGHT TO DO SO.

AND THEN IT CREATES A SITUATION WHERE A PETITIONER WOULD EITHER HAVE TO START BASICALLY FROM BEGINNING, OR IF THE RESOURCES ARE NOT THERE, JUST SCRAPE A PROJECT ALL TOGETHER SO THAT PRE-FILING A MEETING AS I AS I CALL IT, JUST THE TERM THAT I USE, ALLOWS THE PETITIONER TO PRESENT A KIND OF A VERY A CONCEPT PLAN, A PLAN, IF YOU WILL, AND CERTAIN OTHER SUPPORTING DOCUMENTATION TO GIVE COUNSEL AN IDEA WHAT THAT DEVELOPMENT IS GOING TO BE, AND TO GIVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO RECEIVE FEEDBACK AND COMMENTS FROM COUNCIL MEMBERS, WHICH IS NON-BINDING.

AND IF THE PETITIONER STILL WANTS TO ROLL THE DICE AND GO IN FRONT OF COUNCIL WITH A PROJECT DISREGARDING COUNCIL FEEDBACK, THAT'S ON THEM. BUT AT LEAST IT GIVES THAT OPPORTUNITY TO KNOW WHERE INDIVIDUAL COUNCIL COUNCIL MEMBERS STAND ON THE PARTICULAR PROPOSED PUD.

SO THIS IS WHAT IT DOES. THERE ARE TWO SECTIONS AGAIN THE SECTION FOUR.

SECTION FOUR ADDRESSES THE GENERAL PROCESS AND THE REASONING BEHIND PUD IS THE INTENT OF PUD, ETC. I CLEANED IT UP A LITTLE BIT AS WELL BECAUSE IT JUST HAD THE VERBIAGE WAS A LITTLE BIT INCONSISTENT, WHERE IN SOME IN SOME PARAGRAPHS IT WOULD REFER TO AN APPLICANT AND OTHERS TO PETITIONER.

SO IT JUST PUTS IT ALL IN ONE FORMAT, THEN ADDS A REQUIREMENT OF ONE.

THE PETITIONER SHALL SUBMIT A WRITTEN SUMMARY OF PROPOSALS, PRELIMINARY PERIODIC CONCEPT PLAN AND CHARACTER RENDERINGS TO COME COUNSEL FOR FOR PRE FILING MEETING AND THEN 905 SECTION NINE INCHES GENERAL.

SO SORRY. ARTICLE NINE IN GENERAL ADDRESSES ALL THE PROCESSES, ZONING AND PLANNING PROCESSES IN THE CITY IN MUCH MORE DETAIL.

AND IT ADDS 905 A3 SECTION THAT OUTLINES EXACTLY WHAT NEEDS TO BE SUBMITTED TO COUNCIL.

AND THE LIST OF DOCUMENTS IS FOR YOU TO DISCUSS.

I THOUGHT THAT THOSE DOCUMENTS WOULD ALLOW COUNCIL TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE PLAN FOR DEVELOPMENT IS.

WITHOUT GOING INTO TOO MUCH DETAIL WHERE YOU SPEND A LOT OF MONEY ON ENGINEERING.

OR ATTORNEYS FOR THAT MATTER. SO THEY, YOU KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, ONE THING THAT IS NOT REQUIRED, THERE IS A DRAFT OF A DISTRICT ORDINANCE BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT USUALLY A LION'S SHARE OF ATTORNEY FEES, FOR EXAMPLE, OR DRAINAGE PLAN. STORMWATER PLAN, SPANISH PLAN, ETC..

THAT'S ENGINEERING FEES. BUT IT DOES INCLUDE A WRITTEN SUMMARY WITH CURRENT SITE CONDITIONS, WITH DEVELOPMENT LOCATION, VICINITY MAP SHOWING ADJACENT USES AND ZONING DISTRICTS.

DESCRIPTION OF A PROPOSED LAND USES, INCLUDING INCLUDING ACREAGE AND OVERALL PERCENTAGE PERCENTAGE ALLOCATION.

SO MEANING HOW MANY RESIDENTIAL? HOW MANY COMMERCIAL VERSUS COMMERCIAL COMPONENT.

WHAT TYPES OF RESIDENTIAL USE, ETC. AND THE PERCENTAGE WITHIN THE DEVELOPMENT? INFORMATION REGARDING BUILDING TYPES, ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN SUMMARIES AND DENSITIES.

SO DENSITIES, CALCULATIONS AND DESCRIPTION OF OPEN SPACES, PARK FACILITIES AND PRIVATE AND PUBLIC AMENITIES.

PUD CONCEPT PLAN AS DEFINED IN THE SECTION 905 A4, B1.

SO THAT'S JUST A GENERAL PLAN. WITHOUT GOING TOO MUCH INTO THE ENGINEERING DETAIL AND CHARACTER RENDERINGS, YOU KNOW WHAT CHARACTER RENDERINGS ARE AT LEAST TWO RENDERINGS OF EACH SPECIFIC USE AND ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION THE PETITIONER DEEMS RELEVANT FOR THE COMMON COUNCIL TO UNDERSTAND THE PUD PROPOSAL, SCOPE, IMPACT, AND CHARACTER.

SO IF THEY FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH IT, THEY CAN PRESENT THE WHOLE WHOLE THING IN FRONT OF COUNCIL AND THEN GO TO PLANNING COMMISSION IF THEY WANT TO.

BUT THIS IS THE MINIMALLY REQUIRED INFORMATION TO, PERHAPS IN HOPES THAT THE PETITIONERS WILL SAVE TIME AND RESOURCES. QUESTION FOR YOU. YOU KNOW HOW I FEEL ABOUT RENTALS.

SO IN THE SUMMARY, CAN THERE BE SOMETHING, SOME LANGUAGE IN THERE IF JUST SOMETHING IN THERE THAT TALKS ABOUT WHAT THEIR RENTAL RESTRICTIONS.

[00:50:01]

SO I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW, I JUST THINK BECAUSE EVERY TIME ONE'S GOING TO COME TO ME, THE LANGUAGE, MAYBE THE THE THING WITH PUDS, THE THING WITH PUD, ESPECIALLY IF WE HAVE A MULTI-USE COMPONENT.

I MEAN, MULTIFAMILY COMPONENT, OBVIOUSLY. RIGHT, RIGHT.

WOULD BE RENTALS THERE. BUT I CAN THINK ABOUT THE LANGUAGE WHERE I WOULD MUCH RATHER HAVE IT AS A COMMITMENT.

YEAH. AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT AND OKAY. GOTCHA.

ALL RIGHT. BUT I CAN THINK ABOUT THAT AS WELL.

SO THIS IS IN ESSENCE THE AMENDMENT. SO IT'S A IT'S A SHORT ONE, BUT IT'S A VERY SUBSTANTIVE ONE.

AS YOU KNOW, MOST DEVELOPMENTS IN CARMEL, BIGGER DEVELOPMENTS ARE PUD DEVELOPMENTS.

SO YOU'VE SEEN QUITE A FEW OF THOSE. AGAIN, IT GIVES IT A LITTLE BIT MORE TRANSPARENCY TO WHAT'S COMING, MORE FEEDBACK AND COMMENT FROM COUNCIL. SO THERE'S NO WHAT HAPPENED IN 146 IN TOWN WHERE ONE ONE CONCEPT WAS PRESENTED, IT WAS CHANGED A COUPLE OF TIMES IN COMMISSION, ONLY TO TURN AROUND AND PRESENT SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT IN FRONT OF YOU GUYS. I LIKE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO BE ABLE TO AT LEAST WEIGH IN AND AGAIN, WITH THAT UNDERSTANDING THAT IT'S FEEDBACK, THAT IT'S IT'S A DISCUSSION THAT IT'S IN NO WAY A GUARANTEE THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO COME BACK WITH OTHER THINGS THAT WE'D LIKE TO SEE OR DO.

IT'S NOT THE END OF THE PROCESS OR THE END OF NEGOTIATION, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK THE KEY PART OF THAT AT THE END HERE IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

AND I AND I LIKE THE FACT THAT IT'S NOT OVERLY ONEROUS ON THE DEVELOPER FROM A FINANCIAL STANDPOINT, BECAUSE WE DO WANT TO RESPECT THEIR, I THINK, THEIR TIME AND THEIR MONEY.

BUT I REALLY ALSO WANT A CHANCE TO ENSURE THAT EVEN IF THEY PRESENT US SOMETHING, WE GET A CHANCE.

YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT THERE'S NO GUARANTEE THAT JUST BECAUSE WE SAY, HEY, YEAH, WE'RE OKAY WITH THIS, YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND TAKE THIS TO PLANNING COMMISSION THAT IT'S ANY KIND OF, YOU KNOW, GUARANTEED PROMISE THAT WE'RE GOING TO.

WELL, YOU SAID YOU WOULD DO THIS. WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU DIDN'T GET I DIDN'T HAVE THIS DETAIL OR THAT DETAIL, AND NOW I DO. AND NOW I DON'T LIKE X, Y, OR Z.

THAT COULD STILL HAPPEN, RIGHT? BUT THAT LANGUAGE IS SPECIFICALLY INCLUDED AS A NON-BINDING RECOMMENDATION, EITHER FOR THE CITY OR THE PETITIONER. AND AND ANY DISCUSSED COMMITMENTS OR CONDITIONS ARE NOT GOING TO BE SPECIFICALLY FINALIZED UNTIL AT THE VERY END, SECTION 905 87 THAT GOVERNS THEM, AND THAT SECTION CORRESPONDS TO A STATE CODE THAT GOVERNS COMMITMENTS AND CONDITIONS. THAT'S WHY WE WE CAN FINALIZE THEM AT THIS STAGE.

THREE I DON'T KNOW. I, I'D LIKE US TO CONTINUE DISCUSSING THIS BECAUSE I'M, I'M NOW AND I KNOW THE ONE THAT BROUGHT THIS UP. I AM STARTING TO THINK THROUGH SOME UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.

AND I WANT I WANT TO. CONTINUE THINKING THROUGH THOSE.

IF AND I DON'T THINK THERE'S A HUGE RUSH ON THIS ONE.

NO, NO. ABSOLUTELY NOT. IT'S IT'S DESIGNED AS A CONVERSATION STARTER WITH SOMETHING THAT YOU ASSIGN AS HOMEWORK.

YEP. HERE'S THE RESULT OF A VERY FIRST ROUGH DRAFT.

CAN BE MODIFIED, CAN BE SCRAPPED ALTOGETHER. SO IT'S ENTIRELY UP TO YOU.

I THINK THIS IS THIS IS GOOD I. OH, THERE WE GO.

630. 630. ALL RIGHT. AS A REMINDER, WE STILL HAVE ABOUT A THIRD OF THE PADDLES.

I KNOW, I KNOW. SO YOU GUYS, ALL OF A SUDDEN I'M VERY BUSY.

WELL, LET'S. LET'S PLAN ON GETTING THROUGH. WELL, NEXT WEDNESDAY.

GET THROUGH HIS WORK THROUGH AS MUCH AS WE CAN IN THAT MEETING, AND THEN GET TO A POINT WHERE WE'RE COMFORTABLE ENOUGH KIND OF SPEED GOING THROUGH IT IN THIS MEETING. THAT'S OKAY.

YEAH, I THINK THAT'S REASONABLE. IT'S VERY REASONABLE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH, SERGEI. THIS IS A LOT OF WORK, AND I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

THANK YOU TO YOU GUYS, TOO. YES. ALL RIGHT. WE'RE ADJOURNED AT 632.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.