[Central Designated Outdoor Refreshment Area Committee on August 26, 2025.] [00:00:26] WE HAVE ONE EXCUSED ABSENCE. RANDY ERNST CALLED ME EARLIER IN THE WEEK AND IS TRAVELING. WANT TO INTRODUCE BOB FREY, OUR NEW MEMBER. WE HAD A RESIGNATION FROM SOMEONE WHO IS -- THEIR LIFE DID NOT ALLOW THEM TO DO THIS, SO WE WANT TO WELCOME MATT TO THE COMMITTEE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME, AND THANK YOU FOR SERVING. ALL RIGHT, WE ARE GOING TO START WITH ANY PUBLIC COMMENT. PART OF THE PURPOSE OF THIS COMMITTEE IS TO MAKE SURE WE GIVE THE PUBLIC AN OPPORTUNITY TO VOICE CONCERNS, FOR ANY VENDORS, ANY OF OUR BUSINESSES, AND I AM SEEING NOBODY THAT IS MOVING TOWARDS THE PODIUM OR GIVING AN INDICATION OUT OF THIS HUGE CROWD TODAY, SO WE ARE GOING TO MOVE ON TO UPDATE ON CUP ISSUES. THERE SEEMS TO BE KIND OF A -- I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF -- I'M LOOKING AT MY EMAILS, I'VE RECEIVED A COUPLE OF THOUGHTS OF PEOPLE WHO WOULD LIKE US TO MOVE TO PLASTIC. AND WE DEBATED THAT AS A COMMITTEE LAST MONTH AT OUR REGULAR MEETING. I THINK WE CAME TO A GOOD CONCLUSION. WE BASED THAT DISCUSSION AND THAT DECISION ON CURRENT SITUATION, SUCH AS AVAILABILITY OF CUPS, PRICE OF THE CUPS, VALUE TO OUR COMMUNITY AND HOW THEY LOOK, RECYCLING, AND AVAILABILITY. SO IF -- SO IF ANYONE WANTS TO RAISE THAT ISSUE AS ANOTHER DISCUSSION POINT, I'M HAPPY TO TAKE TIME HERE THIS MORNING -- OR THIS AFTERNOON TO DISCUSS THAT. IF IT IS A SETTLED MATTER IN YOUR MIND, I HAVE INFORMED THE COMMITTEE THAT THERE IS ONE OF OUR ESTABLISHMENTS HERE IN CARMEL THAT WOULD LIKE US TO MOVE TO PLASTIC, AND I'VE HAD TWO COUNSELORS GIVE ME THEIR THOUGHTS ON MOVING TO PLASTIC. BUT I WILL SAY I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THEY'VE GOT THE WHOLE STORY, BECAUSE THEY ALWAYS REFERENCE THE LACK OF AVAILABILITY, AND WE'VE SOLVED THAT. UNLESS ANYONE TELLS ME DIFFERENTLY, AND KELLY, IF YOU KNOW OF ANYTHING DIFFERENT, PLEASE SPEAK UP, WE'RE GOOD? >> WE ARE GOOD. I HAVE NOT BEEN IN THE DORA DELIVERY SYSTEM FOR -- SINCE LAST MEETING. >> OKAY, EXCELLENT. >> JEFF, I DO HAVE A QUESTION. >> SURE. >> CATCHING UP ON ALL OF THIS, MISSING THAT ONE DISCUSSION, ARE YOU MOVING TO PLASTIC, OR WE'RE GOING KEEP -- >> THANK YOU. SO THE -- SO WE ENTERTAINED THE IDEA OF ADDING BLASTIC TO THE ALUMINUM, AND FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS, INCLUDING CONFUSION, PROBABLY EVERYONE WOULD JUST MOVE TO PLASTIC, NOT THE IMAGE, NOT THE VALUE TO THE COMMUNITY WE, THIS COMMITTEE, THE MOTION DID NOT CARRY. SO WE ARE STAYING WITH ALUMINUM CUPS THAT ARE NOW AVAILABLE. >> THANKS. >> OKAY. AND I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I'M GIVING EVERYONE PLENTY OF CHANCE TO ARGUE OR TO DISAGREE WITH THAT ASSESSMENT SINCE YOU'VE SLEPT ON IT. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. OKAY, THEN THE NEXT -- AND I DID PLAN THAT THIS WOULD BE, WITHOUT ANY PUBLIC COMMENT, THAT THIS WOULD BE A FAIRLY SHORT MEETING, BECAUSE I'M GOING TO LOSE A COUPLE OF PEOPLE THAT I KNOW ABOUT SHORTLY. SO UPDATE FROM DEPARTMENT ON SIGNAGE. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU KNEW THAT WAS ON HERE. >> NO. >> SO LET ME JUST KIND OF GIVE SOME COLOR TO THAT -- WHY THAT'S ON HERE. DO YOU BELIEVE OR HAVE YOU HEARD THAT THERE ARE ANY ISSUES WITH OUR SIGNAGE? SLIPPERINESS, PEELING UP, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT IS, OTHER THAN JUST AN ANOMALY, IS THERE ANY KIND OF A TREND YOU'RE SEEING, AND DO WE NEED TO BE THINKING ABOUT THIS IN THE WINTER. >> I HAVE NOT HEARD ABOUT ANY ISSUES RECENTLY. WHEN THEY WENT DOWN, THERE WERE SOME ADHESION PROBLEMS, BECAUSE IT WAS PUT DOWN WHEN IT WAS STILL WET. SO I DON'T KNOW OF ANYTHING NOW. >> OKAY, GREAT. SO I'LL JUST -- IF YOU DO HEAR OF ANYTHING, WE PROBABLY NEED TO LOOK AT THAT AGAIN. AND I DID SEE ONE PULLING UP THE OTHER DAY. I GOT TO REMEMBER WHERE I WAS WALKING. SO I'M ALSO GOING TO LET STREET DEPARTMENT KNOW THEY NEED TO LET US KNOW IF THEY'RE SEEING SOMETHING. WHERE THEY'RE COMING UP AND THEY'RE NOT STICKING, AND WE THINK THEY ARE. >> YEAH, THEY WOULD PROBABLY BE A MUCH BETTER SOURCE OF INFO ON THAT. [00:05:03] >> OKAY. EXCELLENT. >> WE HAD SOME ISSUES WITH THAT. >> I GOT YOU. >> BUT AS FAR AS I KNOW, THEY WERE GOING TO GO AND PUT DOWN NEW WITH MORE ADHESIVE. >> OKAY, GREAT. SUPER. OKAY, THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. >> MR. CHAIR, THE SLIPPERY PERSPECTIVE, WE HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY CONCERN IN LEGAL DEPARTMENT AS FAR AS ANY TORT CLAIMS OF ANY KIND. I HAVE ONE -- A COUPLE ON MY WAY TO WORK, AND WHENEVER IT RAINS, I TEST THEM. >> YEAH. >> AND THEY ARE SURPRISINGLY LESS SLIPPERY THAN I THOUGHT THEY WOULD BE. >> OKAY. >> IT WAS DEFINITELY MATERIAL THAT DOESN'T REALLY SLIP. >> GREAT. OKAY. >> WE HAVEN'T HEARD OF ANY ISSUES. I KNOW IT WAS A CONCERN. WE ARE ON THE LOOKOUT FOR ANY POTENTIAL SLIP AND FALL TORT CLAIMS. WE HAVEN'T RECEIVED ANY TODAY. >> I WOULD ADD IF THERE ARE ANY ISSUES, JUST REACH OUT TO THE STREET DEPARTMENT, AND WE WILL LOOK AT THOSE. >> BEAUTIFUL, OKAY, EXCELLENT. ALL RIGHT. OKAY, I THINK THE -- SO THEN THE NEXT ITEM OF BUSINESS AND WHY WE'RE PROBABLY REALLY HERE TODAY IS TO EXCLUDE CERTAIN DAYS FROM DORA OPERATIONS. SERGEI OR KELLY, WHO WANTS TO KIND OF LEAD THAT DISCUSSION WHILE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IT?. >> I THINK WE DECIDED THAT THERE ARE SEVERAL DAYS THAT SHOULD BE EXCLUDED OR AT LEAST DAYS AND TIMES AND LOCATIONS, AND THAT'S DUE TO OTHER FESTIVALS HAPPENING. FOR INSTANCE, I WILL JUST PICK ON CHRIS KIN DAL MARKET BECAUSE THEY HAVE A LOVELY BOOT THAT PEOPLE COLLECT AND I DON'T THINK THEY WANT THAT WITH A DORA STICKER ON IT. WE WOULD MOVE TO EXCLUDE CHRIS KINDLE MARKET, WINTER GAMES IN THE MIDDLE OF JANUARY. THERE ARE NOT MANY PEOPLE OUTSIDE HAVING A BEVERAGE. IT'S A VERY SMALL LOCATION, AND DURING THIS EVENT, THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT JUST BRING A COOLER AND IT'S A CORPORATE GAME ON THE ICE AT CARTER GREEN. IT WOULD MAKE SENSE JUST TO HAVE THAT BE EXCLUDED AS WELL. DIWALI, THIS IS A NEW ONE, BECAUSE ORIGINALLY THEY WERE NOT GOING TO HAVE ALCOHOL AT THIS EVENT, BUT NOW THEY ARE. NEXT YEAR THEY WOULD LIKE TO BE EXCLUDED. I DON'T HAVE A FIRM DATE, SO I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT WORKS EXACTLY. AND GAZEBO CONCERTS. AND THAT'S DUE TO THE FACT THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE TO BRING THEIR OWN WINE FOR EVENTS. WE WOULD MOVE DURING GAZEBO CONCERTS WE LIFT THE DORA FROM THAT SECTION. >> OKAY. ANY QUESTIONS? GO AHEAD, DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION, JEFF? >> I'VE JUST GOT A QUESTION ON DIWALI. ARE THEY DOING SOMETHING SIMILAR TO KRIS KRINGLE? THEY'RE PROVIDING A SPECIFIC FUN CUP >> NO, THEY WOULD HAVE A CUP. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE. I THINK IT WAS MORE THE FACT THEY WANTED TO BE ABLE TO HAVE CANS OF BEER. SO AND THEY HAVE ONE BEER LICENSE AND ONE WINE LICENSE, AS I UNDERSTAND IT. AND I THINK THERE'S PROBABLY SOME BRAND RECOGNITION THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO KEEP RETAINED. >> I DO HAVE A FOLLOW-UP QUESTION ON THAT. IS DIWALI NOW MOVING FROM MIDTOWN SOMEWHERE ELSE OR IS IT STILL IN MIDTOWN? >> IT MOVED TO CARTER GREEN. >> THAT MAKES IT A LITTLE BIT EASIER, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY MIDTOWN THERE'S SO MANY BUSINESSES THAT RELY ON DORA, I THINK IT WOULD BE A TOUGH SELL FOR THEM. BUT IN CARTER GREEN, IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT SINCE RIGHT NOW WE'RE NOT THAT MANY. >> SO SERGEI, WASN'T THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF DOING THIS DORA PARTLY FOR THE FESTIVALS? AND SO IT SEEMS TO ME -- AND I GET CHRIS KINDLE, SO I'M GOING TO EXCLUDE CHRIS KINDLE, BUT AREN'T WE STARTING TO SORT OF TEAR THIS THIG APART, AND IS THAT SOMETHING WE NEED TO DISCUSS FURTHER? >> YEAH, I THINK IT'S A FAIR POINT. CHRIS KINDLE MARKET IS, OBVIOUSLY, JEFF, AS YOU MENTIONED, IS A VERY DIFFERENT BEAST BECAUSE THEY HAVE DIFFERENT CUPS. THEY HAVE A -- THAT HAS EVEN MORE DIFFERENT CUPS, ANYTHING FROM ICE CUPS AND RUM DRINKS AND SOME OTHER CONTAINERS, ET CETERA, ET CETERA. WINTER GAMES, SAME THING. GAZEBO CONCERTS, DIFFERENT ISSUE THERE. MORE ROOTED IN TRADITION AND WHAT THAT EVENT IS. BUT BEYOND THAT, YEAH, I THINK IT'S A FAIR POINT. IT'S -- IF DORA IS MADE OPERATIONAL AND IF WE REDUCE THE SUPPLY ISSUES WITH CUPS, IT IS MAKING A LOT OF EVENTS MUCH EASIER. YOU DON'T NEED A FESTIVAL LICENSE ANYMORE. YOU DON'T NEED OUTLINING THE PERIPHERY OF THE EVENT ANYMORE. [00:10:05] YOU DON'T NEED SIGNAGE ANYMORE. OUTSIDE OF WHAT'S DORA, ET CETERA. BUT IT'S -- BUT THERE ARE SOME ISSUES THAT ATC PROBABLY DID NOT CONTEMPLATE, SUCH AS WHAT IF YOU WANT TO HAVE YOUR OWN BRANDED CUP FOR SPECIFIC EVENT OR BRANDED BEER, ET CETERA, ET CETERA, ET CETERA. SO I THINK A LOT OF COMMUNITIES ARE GOING FOR EXACT SAME QUESTIONS AS WE ARE, AND THIS IS EXACTLY KIND OF QUESTION FOR COMMITTEE TO DISCUSS AND DEBATE. DOES IT -- PERSONALLY, DO I THINK IT MAKES SENSE FOR -- TO HAVE KIND OF UNIFORMITY AMONG ALL THE EVENTS AND KEEP DORA UNIFORM, YEAH, I THINK IT DOES. BUT I ALSO RECOGNIZE THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN EVENTS THAT -- WHERE THE BRAND RECOGNITION IS VERY IMPORTANT. SO I'M SURE THERE ARE ARGUMENTS ON BOTH SIDES, AND THAT'S WHAT THIS COMMITTEE IS FOR. BUT JUST FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE, SIMPLY FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE, WE DON'T HAVE ANY GUIDANCE FROM ATC ON ISSUES LIKE THAT, BECAUSE THERE IT IS ALSO NEW FOR EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE STATE OF INDIANA, INCLUDING ATC THEMSELVES. SO A LOT OF IT IS A KIND OF LEAVE IT UP TO MUNICIPALITIES AS LONG AS WE FOLLOW GENERAL RULES IN THE DORA STATUTE, I THINK WE'LL BE FINE. AND THEY TOLD US AGAIN AND AGAIN, AS LONG AS YOU FOLLOW THOSE GENERAL RULES, YOU CAN REGULATE THE REST OF IT YOURSELF, BECAUSE EVERYONE -- SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT. >> SO YOU KNOW, WE CAN TAKE EACH ONE OF THESE SEPARATELY, DO YOU HAVE A COMMENT? ALL RIGHT, LET ME -- CHAIR, I WILL YIELD TO MATT, GO AHEAD. >> I APPRECIATE IT. >> YEAH. >> IT'LL BE IMPORTANT FOR EVERYONE TO HEAR THE CITY ORDINANCE, BECAUSE I KNOW THE POLICE COULD POSSIBLY BE CONFUSED WITH SOMEONE IN THEIR CAR BRINGING ALCOHOL TO A PUBLIC EVENT OPEN SPACE NOT FENCED IN DRINKING ALCOHOL THAT WAS NOT PROVIDED BY SOMEONE WITH A LICENSE. SO WHAT IS THE CURRENT CITY ORDINANCE? IS THAT AT OUR DISCRETION AS A CITY AND FOR THE POLICE? >> YEAH, THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION. I THINK IT'S -- GOES DIRECTLY INTO THE GAZEBO CONCERT DISCUSSION. CURRENTLY THERE IS NO OPEN CONTAINER LAW IN THE STATE OF INDIANA OR IN THE CITY OF CARMEL. SO YOU COULD, AS LONG AS YOU'RE NOT VIOLATING PUBLIC INTOX LAWS OR ANY OTHER RELATED STATE CODES, THEN YOU COULD BRING YOUR OWN ALCOHOL TO AN EVENT. AND CONSUME IT WITHIN, YOU KNOW, AS LONG AS YOU'RE NOT VIOLATING ANY OTHER STATE CODE. BUT AS OF RIGHT NOW, THERE IS NO REGULATION IN HAMILTON COUNTY, AS FAR AS I KNOW, DEFINITELY NOT IN THE CITY OF CARMEL. >> SO I THINK WE NEED TO TALK, I THINK WE'VE GOT A COUPLE ISSUES GOING HERE FIST, SO I'M GOING TO AS THE CHAIR THROW OUT THAT WE HANDLE DIWALI FIRST. SO SHARE WITH ME AGAIN WHAT IS THEIR LOGIC -- HERE'S WHAT I HEARD. I HEARD THEY WANT TO SERVE CANS OF BEER. WELL, SO DOES FORK AND ALE, BUT THEY HAVE TO POUR IT INTO A DORA CUP. SO WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DIWALI AND ANY OTHER FESTIVAL, OUR INTERNATIONAL ARTS FESTIVAL THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE SERVING THE CANS OF BEER THERE ON THE SIDE OF THE STREET, SO WHY WOULD WE STEER AWAY FROM OUR MAIN PREMISE THAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO WALK AROUND, IT HAS TO BE IN A DORA CUP? >> I THINK THAT ON -- IN THIS CASE -- AND I'M -- IT'S UP TO YOU GUYS TO DECIDE, BUT I SEE BOTH SIDES OF THIS. >> YEAH. >> I THINK THAT THEY'RE GETTING SPONSORSHIP DOLLARS FROM A BEER VENDOR AS WELL AS FROM A WINE VENDOR, SO IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE THEM RECOGNIZED AND THEY CAN SEE THE BRAND AS PEOPLE ARE WALKING AROUND. I WILL ALSO SAY THAT IT'S THE SAME FOOTPRINT AS CHRIS KINDLE MARKET, SO BY VIRTUE OF THE SPACE, THEY'RE PROBABLY GOING TO BE STAYING WITHIN THAT SPACE ANYWAY. SO IT'S ALREADY SORT OF ROPED OFF ESSENTIALLY, WHICH IS WHAT YOU WOULD NEED TO DO FOR A FESTIVAL LICENSE. SO I FEEL LIKE IT FALLS AND ALIGNS PRETTY NICELY WITH THAT. AND JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE REMOVING THE RESTRICTIONS OF DORA FOR THAT PARTICULAR EVENT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT'S NOT STILL HAPPENING WITHIN THE REST OF THE CITY. AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT IS, LIKE, YEAH, THIS HAS AN EFFECT ON EVENTS, BUT IT ALSO HAS AN EFFECT ON THE REST OF THE CITY AND THE FACT THAT PEOPLE CAN GO, YOU KNOW, TO A RESTAURANT AND GET A BEVERAGE AND WALK AROUND AND SHOP WHILE THEY'RE WAITING FOR A SEAT. SO I MEAN, ALL OF THAT STILL HAPPENS, IT'S JUST THAT IN THE -- AT THE CARTER GREEN, THAT LOCATION WOULD BE NOT WITHIN THE DORA DISTRICT FOR A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME. [00:15:02] >> SO THE OTHER ISSUE I WOULD RAISE IS IF THEY'RE DOING THIS FOR BRANDING REASONS, EVERYBODY'S GOING TO DO THAT. AND WE ALREADY DISCUSSED THIS LAST TIME ABOUT WE DON'T WANT TO GET INTO THAT. I CAN'T SUPPORT A -- AND I'M JUST SPEAKING FOR MYSELF -- BUT I CANNOT SUPPORT REMOVING DORA FROM ONE FESTIVAL SO THAT THEY CAN DO THEIR BRANDING, BECAUSE THAT'S OPENING IN MY OPINION, OPENING A CAN OF WORMS AND IS REDUCING THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THIS. AND I KNOW YOU'RE JUST THE MESSENGER, I GOT IT. >> THAT'S JUST MY TAKE ON IT. ARE THERE ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS FOR -- REGARDING DIWALI? >> I WOULD AGREE THAT I THINK THAT WE HAVE THESE ANNUAL, THE KRIS KRINGLES THAT ARE ANNUAL THAT WE NEED TO GRANDFATHER IN AND THAT'S WHAT IT IS, BECAUSE THERE IS GOING TO BE FESTIVALS, AND THERE'S GOING TO BE NEW ONES. DIWALI'S IN YEAR TWO, AND THEY'VE ALREADY MOVED ONCE. SO YOU KNOW, WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO GO NEXT YEAR, YOU KNOW? SO I LOOK AT IT AS KRIS KRINGLE HAS BEEN AROUND FOR 15, 16 YEARS, WHERE I THINK IT'S A TWO-WAY STREET. I THINK IT HAS TO -- THE MUGS, THEY'RE COLLECTOR ITEMS. YOU LOOK AT THE DIFFERENT COLOR EVERY YEAR. I LOOK FORWARD TO THEM. SO I THINK IT'S JUST TWO DIFFERENT ANIMALS. >> I ALSO THINK CHRIS KINDLE IS, WHAT, THREE WEEKS, OR I CAN'T REMEMBER HOW MANY DAYS, MULTIPLE DAYS, I KNOW IT'S A LOT, WHERE WE'RE TALKING DIWALI'S ONE AFTERNOON AND EVENING. SO ARE THERE ANY OTHER COMMENTS? >> YEAH, I WOULD JUST SAY THAT I AGREE WITH YOU AS WELL. ONE QUESTION I DO HAVE IS IF WE REMOVE DORA FOR CERTAIN DAYS OR CERTAIN EVENTS, THEN THAT MEANS THAT THEY'RE GOING TO SERVE ALCOHOL, THEY HAVE TO GO GET THE REGULAR LICENSING THROUGH THE STATE, RIGHT? >> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. YEP. AND SO WE DID, I BELIEVE, WE DID TALK TO CHRIS KINDLE MARKET AND WE DO WANT TO USE THE FESTIVAL LICENSE FOR IT AS WE HAVE IN THE PAST. WE DO HAVE THAT SYSTEM FIGURED OUT PRETTY WELL. I BELIEVE I USE A BERKSHIRE LICENSE FOR IT. SO IT -- FOR CHRIS KINDLE MART SPECIFICALLY, IT WILL BE BUSINESS AS USUAL, REALLY. DORA FOR THEM DOES NOT NECESSARILY MAKE THINGS EASIER. >> MM-HMM. >> BECAUSE OF THAT, COLLECTIBLE ITEMS AND A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT WAYS ALCOHOL IS SERVED, IT -- WITHIN THE CHRIS KINDLE MART GROUNDS. FROM MY EXPERIENCE, WE GO ABSOLUTELY EVERY YEAR, THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE DON'T TAKE IT OUT OF THE VERY MUCH DESIGNATED AREA OF CHRIS KINDLE MARKET. IT'S COMPLETELY ROPED OFF EXCEPT FOR DESIGNATED ENTRY AND EXIT POINTS. SO IT'S -- IT MAKES IT VERY EASY FOR FESTIVAL LICENSE TO BE UTILIZED BECAUSE YOU HAVE A VERY SPECIFIC FOOTPRINT, PERIMETER OF THE EVENT. >> THANK YOU. >> ALL RIGHT. SO I WILL ENTERTAIN A MOTION IF ANYONE WANTS TO MAKE A MOTION. BUT I'M NOT SEEING ANY MOVEMENT IN THAT DIRECTION. ALL RIGHT. THE -- SO I DO WANT TO EXPLORE THE COMMENTS REGARDING THE GAZEBO CONCERTS. NOW I KNOW I MAKE YOU VERY UNCOMFORTABLE WHEN I TALK ABOUT THE TRAINING THAT WE HAD AT THE DORA CONFERENCE ABOUT A COMMUNITY'S RIGHT TO ENFORCE THE LAW, WHICH IS I'M USING THOSE WORDS THAT THEY COMMUNICATED TO US. SO GET READY TO WHERE I'M HEADING ON THAT. BUT CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THE PROBLEM IS OR WHAT PROBLEM WE'RE SOLVING BY REMOVING DORA FROM THE GAZEBO CONCERTS? OKAY. >> I THINK I CAN TAKE THIS ONE. >> YES, HERE WE GO. >> IT DOES HAVE A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE ON IT. >> YEAH. >> WELL, DORA DOES, AND FOLLOWING UP ON MY PREVIOUS COMMENT ABOUT OPEN CONTAINER LAW IN THE STATE OF INDIANA AND IN THE CITY OF CARMEL IS THAT DORA CREATES BASICALLY AN OPEN CONTAINER LAW WITHIN DORA. YOU CANNOT BRING OUTSIDE BEVERAGES AND CONSUME THEM WITHIN DORA WHEN DORA IS OPERATIONAL. YOU CAN ONLY BUY THEM FROM DESIGNATED PERMITEES AND VENDORS. AND AGAIN, THE ENFORCEMENT ISSUE IS DIFFERENT. BUT TECHNICALLY SPEAKING, JUST WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE LAW ITSELF, DORA ESSENTIALLY CREATES ONE. WITH EXCEPTION OF DORA BEVERAGES THAT ARE APPROPRIATELY PURCHASED. UNFORTUNATELY OR FORTUNATELY, IT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS. GAZEBO CONCERTS, AS FAR AS I UNDERSTAND, IT'S BEEN A TRADITION TO, YOU KNOW, BRING [00:20:01] YOUR OWN COOLERS WITH A LITTLE BIT OF WINE OR BEER, WHAT HAVE YOU, AND SO FAR AS I KNOW, WE'VE NEVER HAD AN ISSUE WITH THAT. SO FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE, IT CREATES A BIT OF A CONUNDRUM, ESPECIALLY AN ENFORCEMENT ISSUE FOR OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT, WHERE, YOU KNOW, THE STATUTE, THE STATE STATUTE TELLS THEM LIKE, HEY, THERE IS AN OPEN CONTAINER LAW NOW WITHIN DORA. THAT EVENT IS WITHIN DORA DURING DORA OPERATIONAL HOURS, IT'S UP TO -- TO ENFORCE IT OR NOT, BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THERE IS AT LEAST AN ARGUMENT TO DO SO. SO EXCLUDING THAT SPECIFIC EVENT THAT HAS HAD THE TRADITION FOR MANY A YEAR WOULD REDUCE AT LEAST THAT PRESSURE OR MAKE HAVING TO MAKE A CHOICE FOR POLICE DEPARTMENT, ARE WE ENFORCING IT, ARE WE NOT ENFORCING IT, WHAT IS ADMINISTRATION TELLING US, WHAT IS COUNSEL TELLING US, ET CETERA, WHAT IS OUR OWN DIRECTIVE. IT EXCLUDES THAT ARGUMENT IN ITS ENTIRETY. SO WE'LL REVERT BACK TO WHERE WE WERE BEFORE THE OPERATION OF DORA. >> GOT IT, OKAY. >> AGAIN, FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE, THIS ACTUALLY WOULD MAKE THINGS EASIER FOR OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT, BECAUSE NOW WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC INTOX AND OTHER VIOLATIONS THAT CAN RESULT FROM ALCOHOL CONSUMPTION BUT NOT FROM ALCOHOL CONSUMPTION ITSELF. >> ALL RIGHT. AND JUST IF YOU'VE GOT ANY COMMENTS ON THAT, BUT I DO WANT TO ASK, SO HOW ABOUT LATE NIGHT ON MAIN? IT'S BEEN A TRADITION TO BRING YOUR OWN ALCOHOL TO THAT. THAT'S RIGHT IN THE HEART OF OUR DORA. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THERE'S NO ENFORCEMENT OF THAT NIGHT, YOU KNOW, WHICH IS THE MUNICIPALITY'S CHOICE. SO I GET -- I'M STARTING TO UNDERSTAND NOW THE DEAL AT GAZEBO, THAT'S A WHOLE THING, BUT ARE WE NOW CAUSING PROBLEMS WITH PORCH FEST, LATE NIGHT ON MAIN WHERE WE'VE SAID BRING YOUR OWN ALCOHOL ALL THESE YEARS? >> PORCH FEST IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT, IT'S ACTUALLY OUTSIDE OF THE DORA, AND THAT'S PART OF THE REASON WE EXCLUDED THAT PORTION OF OLD TOWN. PORCH FEST IS FOR THAT EXACT REASON WE EXCLUDED IT FROM DORA BOUNDARIES. LATE NIGHT ON MAIN, I WASN'T AWARE THAT WAS A TRADITION AS WELL, BUT THE SAME ARGUMENT WILL APPLY, YEAH. >> SO YOU WANT TO EXCLUDE LATE NIGHT? >> IT'S UP TO THE COMMITTEE, BUT GO AHEAD, KELLY. >> WELL, PART OF HAVING DORA IS THE ECONOMIC VIBRANCY. >> RIGHT. >> AND CONSIDERING THAT LATE NIGHT ON MAIN TAKES PLACE IN THE HEART OF OUR CARMEL ARTS AND DESIGN DISTRICT, I WOULD SAY THAT THAT SPACE SHOULD STILL STAY WITHIN THE DORA DISTRICT. I WOULD NOT TAKE THAT OUT. HERE AT GAZEBO CONCERT, THERE'S NOT AS MUCH ABILITY TO GO AND PURCHASE A BEVERAGE. WE HAVE ONE PLACE NOW, BUT HISTORICALLY THERE REALLY HASN'T BEEN A LOT, SO I MEAN YEAH. >> OKAY. GOT IT. OKAY. SO DID YOU HAVE A COMMENT? YEAH. >> YEAH. ON THE GAZEBO CONCERTS WE WOULD BE IN SUPPORT OF NOT HAVING THEM BE PART OF THE DORA DURING THOSE CONCERTS. WHERE WE HAVE DISCRETION AS POLICE OFFICERS, OBVIOUSLY, BUT WHERE IT BECOMES AN ISSUE IS IF SOMEONE COMPLAINS. LIKE I CALL THE POLICE DEPARTMENT BECAUSE I KNOW THAT THE GENTLEMAN NEXT TO ME IS NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE THAT COOLER OF BEER. NOW IT PUTS US IN THE POSITION THAT WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING BECAUSE A CITIZEN HAS MADE A VALID COMPLAINT. SO I THINK IT WOULD BE EASIER TO EXCLUDE THE GAZEBO. >> OKAY, GREAT. >> JONATHAN DID YOU HAVE A COMMENT? >> SO TO YOUR POINT ABOUT LATE NIGHT ON MAIN, WE POTENTIALLY HAVE AN ISSUE THERE, GOES BACK TO DISCRETION AGAIN. SO I'M GOING TO LOOK AT YOU, SHANE, BUT WE'VE GOT A SITUATION WHERE WE WANT THAT ECONOMIC VIBRANCY IN THE DOWNTOWN, OBVIOUSLY, WE'VE GOT LATE NIGHT ON MAIN. IT'S A GREAT COMMUNITY EVENT. LOT OF PEOPLE COME THERE, BRING THEIR OWN COOLERS. WE ALSO HAVE THE POLICY OR THE LAW THAT SAYS YOU CAN'T HAVE OUTSIDE BEVERAGES IN THAT AREA IN THE DORA. HOW DO WE -- HOW DO WE HANDLE THAT, SERGEI? >> IT'S A GREAT QUESTION, AND I THINK SOME OF IT COMES TO INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY AS WELL AND SOME OF IT COMES TO POLICYMAKING. YOU KNOW, IF -- IF WE WERE TO FOLLOW THE DORA UP TO THE LETTER OF THE LAW, THEN LATE NIGHT ON MAIN WOULD BE A TARGET POTENTIALLY FOR ENFORCEMENT. BUT [00:25:01] AGAIN, IT DOES COME TO INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY AS WELL. NOTHING REALLY CHANGES FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE. BUT YEAH, THAT'S A -- UNFORTUNATELY, ATC DID NOT PROVIDE US WITH AN ALTERNATIVE. THEIR POSITION HAS CHANGED A LITTLE BIT AS WELL, SO WE'RE, YOU KNOW -- IN THE PAST WE WERE ABLE TO USE THOSE FESTIVAL LICENSES. NOW THEY SAY THAT, HEY, IF THE EVENT IS WITHIN DORA, YOU HAVE TO USE THE CUPS. IT JUST -- FOR THEM I THINK IT WAS JUST EASIER TO HAVE ONE STRAIGHT RULE THAN DEALING WITH EVERY SINGLE EVENT AND HOW IT'S RUN WITHIN EVERY MUNICIPALITY THAT HAS A DORA. AND PLUS FOR ENFORCEMENT ISSUES AS WELL, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW. IS IT AN EVENT THAT IS ORGANIZED UNDER FESTIVAL LICENSE OR IS IT A DORA-SANCTIONED EVENT, ET CETERA. SO I THINK FOR THEM I UNDERSTAND THEIR REASONING BEHIND IT. IT'S JUST EASIER TO HAVE A CLEAR CUT RULE THAT, HEY, IF THE EVENT IS WITHIN THE DORA, USE DORA CUPS. >> OKAY, MATT? >> I AGREE WITH YOU 100%. IF THERE WERE WINE VENDORS AROUND THE GAZEBO THAT COULD SELL WINE, THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE, AND TRADITION WOULD CARRY THAT ON. BUT IT WOULD BE A CHALLENGE. I ALSO AGREE WITH YOU AS WELL THAT INCONSISTENCIES OF THE LAW OR ORDINANCE, WHATEVER, IS ONLY GOING TO CONFUSE CITIZENS. AND IT'S GOING TO TAKE A STRONG PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT TO SAY THINGS HAVE CHANGED A LITTLE BIT, SO TO KEEP IT CONSISTENT WITH THE DORA DISTRICT WOULD MAKE TOTAL SENSE CONSISTENTLY WITH EVERY EVENT. >> JEFF? >> I WAS ALSO GOING TO COMMENT THAT THE WHOLE GOAL OF DORA IS TO GET PEOPLE TO SIGN UP. AND WE WENT FROM 11 TO 18 IN THE FIRST THREE WEEKS. AND SHE WAS TRYING TO BECOME A -- THEY WERE TRYING TO GET HER TO BECOME A DISTRIBUTOR, AND THAT'S WHERE WE RAN INTO PROBLEMS. NOW WE HAVE THIS -- THAT SOLVED, AND AS WE CONTINUE TO GET MORE AND MORE, OUR VOLUME'S GOING TO GO UP. BUT AS FAR AS MAIN STREET, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD PUSH VENDORS TO SIGN UP. IF I'M ON MAIN STREET, I'M LIKE RAISING MY HAND UP BECAUSE OF THE SUCCESS OF OTHERS. >> AND IS THE COMMITTEE IN SUPPORT THAT WE NEED TO START ADVERTISING NO OUTSIDE ALCOHOL? I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE'RE HEADING. >> YEAH, I THINK SO. >> AND THIS HAS BEEN A KNOWN ISSUE, FROM WHAT, YOU KNOW, I TOOK THE TRAINING THREE YEARS AGO. IT WAS -- ATC WAS SAYING, YOU CAN SELECTIVELY ENFORCE, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER THAT -- AND BUT TO THE POINT I'M HEARING UP HERE IS WE NEED TO BE CONSISTENT. SO WE NEED TO START PROBABLY TALKING MORE ABOUT, PLEASE DO NOT BRING OUTSIDE ALCOHOL AS WE TRAIN OUR COMMUNITY. >> AND I'M SURE IT'LL BE AT THE DISCRETION OF THE POLICE CHIEF AND THE FORCE. AFTER ONE OR TWO, JUST SO YOU KNOW, THE NEXT LATE ON MAIN, YOU CAN'T DO THIS. WE'RE NOT GOING TO CITATION YOU NOW, BUT IF IT KEEPS RECURRING AFTER THE SIXTH AND SEVENTH, AND PEOPLE ARE BLATANTLY IGNORING THAT. I'M SURE IT'S AT OUR DISCRETION. >> YEAH, WITHIN A NEW ORDINANCE THAT COMES OUT, WE TYPICALLY HAVE A TWO-WEEK TO A MONTH PERIOD WHERE WE WRITE WARNINGS TO EDUCATE BEFORE WE START WRITING TICKETS. >> ANOTHER CONSIDERATION IS -- AND WHEN WE'RE DEALING WITH LATE NIGHT ON MAIN, SPECIFICALLY, BEFORE DORA -- AND MOST OF THESE PLACES DIDN'T HAVE CARRY-OUT LICENSE, SO YOU COULDN'T HAVE AN ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE BOUGHT AT THE BAR OR A RESTAURANT AND TAKE IT OUT. SO IF YOUR ONLY WAY WERE EITHER TO RELY ON VENDORS THAT WERE THERE ALREADY OR BRING YOUR OWN, NOW ON MAIN STREET HOW MANY DORA PARTICIPANTS? WE HAVE AT LEAST SIX OR SEVEN MAYBE OVER IN THAT GENERAL VICINITY. SO NOW THERE IS A CHOICE OF ALL SORTS OF BEVERAGES, WHATEVER YOU WANT, WINE, ALCOHOL, LIQUOR, COCKTAILS, AND BEER AVAILABLE. BUT THEN, YOU KNOW, 50 FEET AWAY FROM WHEREVER YOU ARE ON MAIN STREET. >> YEAH. >> SO THINGS HAVE CHANGED, THE OPTIONS DEFINITELY HAVE BEEN ADDED BECAUSE OF DORA. >> OKAY. ALL RIGHT. WOULD THERE BE A MOTION TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION REGARDING THE GAZEBO CONCERTS AND I'M ASSUMING YOU HAVE THE DATES -- WE'RE GOING TO DO IT BY DATE, SO LET'S SEE IF THERE IS A MOTION AND A SECOND, AND THEN WE'LL ADD THE DATES TO THE MOTION. >> JEFF, I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION. >> SURE, I'M SORRY. >> HOW SPECIFIC DO WE HAVE TO BE, LIKE THIS DATE AND TIME, OR CAN WE JUST SAY WEDNESDAY NIGHT CONCERTS AT THE GAZEBO ARE EXEMPT. >> YEAH, SO I THINK THIS ONE, AND JUST TO BE CLEAR ON THIS [00:30:02] ONE, THIS ONE WOULD REQUIRE AMENDMENT TO THE ORDINANCE, SO THE MOTION WOULD BE A RECOMMENDATION TO COUNCIL. SO FAVORABLE OR UNFAVORABLE TO EXCLUDE GAZEBO CONCERTS TIMES FROM OPERATION OF DORA. >> AND WHOEVER'S GOING TO MAKE THIS MOTION, I WOULD ASK YOU TO INCLUDE CHRIS KINDLE MARKET IN YOUR MOTION IF YOU -- YEP. >> I JUST WANTED TO BRING UP ONE POINT. YOU SAID DURING THE TIMES OF GAZEBO CONCERT, WHICH IS 7:00 TO 9:00. AND PEOPLE DO SHOW UP BEFORE THAT. SO I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY, MAYBE 5:00, GIVE THEM A LITTLE BIT OF EXTRA TIME. >> YOU GET TO SAY THAT BECAUSE I'M GOING TO ASK YOU FOR THE DATES. IS THERE A MOTION? >> I WOULD MAKE A MOTION. CAN I JUST SAY SO MOVED WITH EVERYTHING THAT WAS ANNOUNCED? >> TO RECOMMEND THAT WE ELIMINATE DORA AT THE GAZEBO WEDNESDAY CONCERTS, DATES W'RE GOING TO DO, AND CHRIS KINDLE MARKET DURING ITS OPERATIONS. IS THAT THE MOTION? >> CORRECT. >> OKAY, IS THERE A SECOND? >> SECOND. >> DO WE HAVE A -- WE DON'T HAVE ANYONE TAKING THIS DOWN, BECAUSE I'M GOING TO HAVE TO GIVE THIS TO -- >> I THINK LEGAL WOULD. >> BUT YEAH. AND SO AS PER THE DATES THAT KELLY'S GOING TO READ INTO THE RECORD. >> SURE. AND THEN I CAN HAND YOU THIS PAPER. >> THANK YOU. >> AS WELL. GAZEBO CONCERTS FROM 5:00 P.M. TO 9:00 P.M., THAT WOULD BE MAY 27, 2026, JUNE 3, 2026, JUNE 10, 2016, JUNE 17, 2026, JUNE 24, 2026, JULY 1, 2026, JULY 8, 2026, JULY 15, 2026, JULY 22, 2026, JULY 29, 2026, AUGUST 5, 2026, AUGUST 12, 2026, AUGUST 19, 2026, AUGUST 26, 2026, SEPTEMBER 2, 2026, AND THEN ACTUALLY SEPTEMBER 9, 2026, AND THEN WE HAVE TWO RAIN DATES. SO SEPTEMBER 16, 2026, AND SEPTEMBER 23, 2026. >> GREAT. MICHAEL, WOULD YOU BE ABLE TO GIVE US THE DATES FOR CHRIS KINDLE MARKET? >> >> 25. TO YOU HAVE THEM, KELLY, I'M SORRY? >> DO YOU WANT VERY SPECIFIC DATES FOR THAT. >> I WANT SOMETHING TO SOMETHING. >> I HAVE NOVEMBER 18TH TO DECEMBER 24TH. 2026. AND IT WOULD BE WEDNESDAYS THROUGH THURSDAYS 4:00 P.M. TO 9:00 P.M., FRIDAYS AND SATURDAYS 12:00 P.M. TO 9:00 P.M., AND SUNDAYS 12:00 P.M. TO 8:00 P.M. >> THERE ARE SPECIAL HOLIDAY HOURS THE WEDNESDAY BEFORE THANKSGIVING. >> OKAY. >> SO NOVEMBER 18TH. >> OKAY, AND YOU MEANT 2025. >> WE CAN DO -- THIS IS 2026, BECAUSE I WAS WORKING IN ADVANCE OF 2026. >> YEAH. >> I CAN PULL AND GIVE YOU THE 2025 DATES THEN. >> WOULD JUST LIKE IT IF POSSIBLE, NOVEMBER 19, 2025 -- >> OKAY, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE GOING ON THERE. YEAH, YEAH, GREAT. SUPER. THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. WHATEVER THOSE DATES ARE. OKAY, I HAD A SECOND, RIGHT? >> YEP. >> OKAY. IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION? >> DID WE PUT THE 2025 DATES FOR GAZEBO IN THERE ALSO? IS THAT JUST '26? IS THERE ANYMORE? >> WE HAVE NOT BECAUSE WE -- BUT WE DO HAVE SEVERAL MORE. >> WELL, I HAVE TO GET TO COUNCIL. >> UNFORTUNATELY, IT'S JUST NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, BECAUSE THE WAY COUNCIL WORKS, WE NEED TO GIVE NOTICE FOR A NEW ORDINANCE OR AMENDED ORDINANCE AND THEN WE NEED TO PUBLISH IT. BY THE TIME WE DO THAT, 2025 GAZEBO CONCERTS WILL DEFINITELY BE OVER. >> YEP, ABSOLUTELY. OKAY, ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? GOOD QUESTION. ALL RIGHT, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. >> AYE. >> ANY OPPOSED? OKAY, THAT RECOMMENDATION PASSES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS. DO WE HAVE IN THE FAQS THAT GO OUT TO BUSINESSES THAT ARE -- OR OUR VENDORS, DOES IT SAY IN THE FAQS THAT IF YOU DO NOT WANT OTHER MERCHANT'S ALCOHOL IN YOUR FACILITY, EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE DORA VENDOR, DOES IT SAY YOU MUST POST A SIGN TO THAT EFFECT OR YOU MUST, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T PROVIDE THAT [00:35:04] SIGN. IT'S ITS OWN SIGN, NO OUTSIDE ALCOHOL. >> WE HAVE THREE -- OKAY, I'M TRYING TO FOLLOW THAT. WE HAVE THREE DIFFERENT SIGNS, BUT IF YOU DON'T PUT UP A SIGN, IT'S ASSUMED THAT YOU WILL ACCEPT DORA BEVERAGES WITHIN YOUR ESTABLISHMENT. >> YEAH, SO WHAT WE'RE RUNNING INTO IS IF YOU HAVE THE BLUE DORA SIGN THEN THE ASSUMPTION IS THAT YOU WILL ALLOW OTHER VENDOR'S ALCOHOL IN YOUR ESTABLISHMENT. HOWEVER, WE DO KNOW THAT THERE ARE DORA VENDORS WHO ARE A DORA VENDOR BUT DO NOT WANT OUTSIDE ALCOHOL. IN ORDER TO DO THAT, WE INFORMED THEM EARLY THAT THEY HAD TO POST SIGNAGE TO THAT EFFECT. OTHERWISE, THE ASSUMPTION IS, IT'S ALLOWED. SO AS AN EXAMPLE, THE ONE EMAIL I GOT TODAY IS UPSET BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE BRINGING IN OUTSIDE ALCOHOL. I WENT AND TOOK A PICTURE OF THEIR FRONT DOOR. THEY'VE GOT THE BLUE STICKER UP. OBVIOUSLY, THEY DON'T KNOW. SO I DIDN'T KNOW IF WE COULD ADD THAT CAVEAT TO OUR FAQS. >> WELL, IF THEY HAVE THE BLUE STICKER ON, THEY'RE ALLOWING -- >> YEAH, SO A BLUE STICKER, REMIND ME IT SAYS WHAT EXACTLY, DORA BEVERAGES SOLD HERE OR WELCOMED HERE? BECAUSE THOSE ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. >> THE BLUE IS WELCOME. THE GREEN IS SOLD. >> RIGHT, SO THAT IS ON THEM IN THAT PARTICULAR -- >> THE OTHER WAY, SORRY. >> SO IF YOU PUT THE SIGN ON THE DOOR, BEVERAGES ARE WELCOME HERE, THEN YOU CAN BRING YOUR ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES FROM OTHER VENDORS. >> I GOT IT, THIS IS BLUE, AND IT'S SOLD. BLUE IS SOLD. >> SO THEY NEED TO PUT, YOU KNOW, NO OTHER BEVERAGES OR NO OUTSIDE BEVERAGES ALLOW. >> CORRECT. AND YOU DO THAT, RIGHT? >> YEAH. >> AND MATT WOULD DO THAT PROBABLY. BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS, CAN WE PUT THAT IN THE FAQS BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT UNDERSTANDING THAT. SO I'VE GOT ONE OF OUR LEGITIMATE BIG TIME VENDORS WHO DOES NOT KNOW THAT. AND IT MAY ALREADY BE IN THERE, KELLY, BECAUSE WE DID COVER THIS EARLY ON. BUT I JUST DIDN'T KNOW. >> YEAH, I JUST KNOW THAT THE FAQS ARE ALSO A LIVING DOCUMENT, SO AS WE GET THESE QUESTIONS THAT COME IN, WE ARE UPDATING THAT ON OUR WEBSITE, SO -- BECAUSE WE KNEW GOING FORWARD THAT WE HAD ANSWERS. BUT WE ALSO KNEW THINGS WERE CHANGING FROM ATC, SO WE WERE MOVING ALONG AND UPDATING AS WE WENT ALONG. >> SO GREEN, THE GREEN STICKER MEANS GO FOR IT IN AND OUT. >> MM-HMM. >> THE BLUE IS SUPPOSED TO MEAN ONLY OUT, BUT THAT'S WHERE I THINK THE RUB -- HOW IS THE PUBLIC SUPPOSED TO KNOW THAT? >> YEAH. >> SO WE'VE BEEN KIND OF TELLING THEM PUT UP YOUR OWN SIGN THAT SAYS NO OUTSIDE ALCOHOL. >> YOU CAN'T PUT THE BLUE THAT SAYS SOLD HERE AND THEN A RED THAT SAYS NOT WELCOME. >> RIGHT. >> IT CONFUSES PEOPLE. >> WE CAN MAKE THAT MORE EXPLICIT IF IT ISN'T ALREADY. I WANTED TO BRING UP, WE DIDN'T MAKE A MOTION ON WINTER GAMES. >> OH. SORRY, FORGOT ABOUT THAT. >> SORRY. >> OKAY. OKAY, WELL, THEN, WE GOT TO START OVER. ALL RIGHT. SO THE WINTER GAMES, I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEMS, DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT WINTER GAMES? THAT'S IT. >> WHAT ARE THE DATES? >> CHRIS KINDLE. >> THAT'S ON THE ICE. >> IT'S JANUARY 24, 2026. IT HAPPENS ON CARTER GREEN, WHERE THERE ISN'T MUCH OF ANYTHING AVAILABLE FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE A BEVERAGE. SO IT'S KIND OF NICE TO LET THEM BRING THEIR OWN. >> AND IT'S NO LONGER PART OF CHRIS KINDLE MARK, IT'S A DIFFERENT EVENT. >> IS THERE A MOTION? >> I VOTE TO APPROVE. >> IS THERE A SECOND? >> SECOND. >> ANY DISCUSSION? OKAY, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. >> AYE. >> ANY OPPOSED? ALL RIGHT, THAT MOTION CARRIES. RECOMMEND TO FULL COUNCIL. OKAY, AND THEN THE OTHER -- THE ONLY OTHER THING IS, SHANE, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN ANSWER THIS QUESTION, BUT IF -- I WILL HIDE WHO'S ON THIS -- BUT IF SOMEBODY ELSE, IF ONE OF OUR MERCHANTS WERE TO BE -- WERE TO ALLOW THEIR CUSTOMERS TO LEAVE THE DORA DISTRICT WITH SOMETHING THAT LOOKS LIKE A DORA CUP, WOULD THE POLICE DO ANYTHING ABOUT THAT IF THEY NOTICED IT? >> AS WE TALKED EARLIER, OFFICERS HAVE DISCRETION. WE DON'T HAVE OFFICERS THAT ARE OUT THERE POLICING THE CUPS, SO PROBABLY NOT UNLESS THE PERSON WAS CAUSING SOME KIND OF ISSUE. >> OKAY. >> THEN IT MAY BE SOMETHING THAT THEY TACK ON. >> YEP, AND THAT'S OKAY, THAT'S A GREAT ANSWER. SO NOW MY QUESTION IS, IF A CITIZEN OR COMPETITION WHO SAYS I'M [00:40:05] OBEYING THE RULES AND SOMEBODY ELSE ISN'T, WHAT SHOULD THEY DO WHEN THIS KIND OF A SITUATION ARISES? >> I WOULD JUST CALL THE NONEMERGENCY LINE. IF THERE IS ANY CONCERN OR ADDRESS IT TO THE CITY. >> YEAH, I WOULD THINK ISN'T THAT MORE OF A PERMIT THING OR YEAH. I GUESS WHAT I'M ASKING, WHAT'S OUR -- WHAT SHOULD WE TELL SOMEBODY? BECAUSE IT IS HAPPENING, SO WHAT'S OUR POLICY, WHAT'S OUR PROCESS, WHAT DO WE WANT TO DO? KELLY -- OR EXCUSE ME, MAC, LEGAL, MAYOR, POLICE. >> I'VE GOT TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, IN THIS PARTICULAR SCENARIO, ENFORCEMENT MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT COMPLICATED, BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW IF IT'S AN ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE INSIDE THAT CUP. IF IT'S AN ICED TEA, FOR EXAMPLE, WHICH IS NOT SPIKED, IT IS PERFECTLY LEGAL TO WALK AROUND ANYWHERE IN THE CITY AND SIP IT. SO FOR POLICE TO ENFORCE IT, THEY WOULD NEED TO HAVE AN ALCOHOL TEST, TESTING KIT WITH THEM, OR, YOU KNOW, TO HAVE SOME SORT OF A FIELD TEST FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. BUT IN THIS PARTICULAR EXAMPLE, THE ENFORCEMENT WILL BE VERY, VERY DIFFICULT. >> OKAY, SO I DON'T THINK I'M TALKING ENFORCEMENT. AND WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT GOING TO SING SING HERE, BUT IN ORDER TO KEEP THE INTEGRITY OF OUR PROGRAM, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WE SHOULD HAVE A WAY FOR THE BUSINESSES WHO ARE FOLLOWING THE RULES NOT TO CALL THE COPS BUT THAT WE SAY, HEY, YOU CAN'T DO THAT. YOU KNOW, AND PLEASE DON'T DO THAT ANYMORE. THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. IT'S A PROCESS TO COMPLAIN, AND OF COURSE, THEY COULD COME HERE AND STAND UP ON CAMERA AND RAISE THE ISSUE. I DON'T KNOW THAT WE WANT THAT EITHER, BUT I'M TALKING ABOUT WHO SHOULD -- WHO SHOULD WE ADVISE PEOPLE TO CALL AT THE CITY IN ORDER TO HAVE THIS ADDRESSED. >> SORRY, I MISUNDERSTOOD THE ORIGINAL QUESTION. I THINK EITHER LEGAL DEPARTMENT OR MAC DEPARTMENT WOULD BE FIND. I WOULD BE HAPPY TO COLLECT THOSE KIND OF COMPLAINTS. >> WOULD YOU? YOU OKAY WITH THAT, KELLY? >> UNLESS KELLY FEELS STRONGLY HER DEPARTMENT SHOULD. I KNOW SHE HAS A LOT ON HER PLATE AS WELL. >> I DO NOT. >> GET YOUR BASEBALL BAT. >> AND I CAN TALK TO OUR STAFF AND DESIGNATE SOMEBODY WHO WOULD ACCEPT THOSE KIND OF COMPLAINTS. >> ALL RIGHT, THAT'S WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR. >> JUST WANT TO RAISE THE POINT, IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THIS PERSON OR BUSINESSES PREVIOUSLY HAD THESE CUPS? BECAUSE THESE CUPS WERE POPULAR PRIOR TO DORA LAUNCHING. A LOT OF BEER MANUFACTURERS HAVE CUPS JUST LIKE THIS. SO IT WAS SOMETHING WERE DORA, SO JUST SO WE KNOW THAT POSSIBLY HE HAD THESE OR SHE HAD THESE PRIOR TO THE DORA CUPS, AND MAYBE ONCE THEY'RE OUT OF THEM, CHANCES ARE THERE'S ALCOHOL IN THERE, SO -- >> SO WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS THIS LEAVING YOUR ESTABLISHMENT. >> YEAH. >> THAT'S ON YOU. >> CORRECT. >> NOT US. >> RIGHT. >> SO WHETHER THEY HAD THEM OR NOT, IF SOMEONE'S GOING TO LEAVE WITH IT, THAT'S THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE OPERATOR. >> ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. >> PLUS, THERE'S A VERY SERIOUS DISINCENTIVE TO DO SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU DON'T PARTICIPATE IN DORA AND YOU TRY TO PIGGYBACK ON DORA, TRYING TO USE THE CUPS THAT LOOK LIKE DORA, THAT'S A PRETTY SERIOUS VIOLATION OF EXCISE RULES. >> I AGREE. >> I MEAN, YOU CAN LOSE YOUR LICENSE OVER IT. SO IF YOU ARE WILLING TO DO THAT AND SOMEBODY COMPLAINS AND THE COMPLAINT IS SUBSTANTIATED, THAT'S ON YOU. AND THAT IS ENTIRELY ON YOU. SO I WOULDN'T REALLY HAVE TOO MANY TEARS TO SHED OVER IT. >> JUST FOR THE RECORD, EVERYBODY KEPT LOOKING AT ME. IT WAS NOT BUZZ. >> NO, IT'S NOT BUZZ. IT'S THE SAME VENDOR THAT WANTS US TO MOVE TO PLASTIC, IF THAT MAKES ANY SENSE. >> AGAIN, THE REASON WE WENT WITH THESE IS TO NOT HAVE SEVEN DIFFERENT BRANDINGS, RIGHT? AND I THINK THAT'S THE OTHER CHALLENGE HERE IS I COULD GET A TON OF VENDORS TO MAKE US A CUP, BUT YOU KNOW, FOR US ONE'S GOING TO SAY JIM BEAM, ONE'S GOING TO SAY TITO'S, WE DON'T WANT THAT. WE WANT A CLEAN, YOU KNOW, CUP, A HIGH END LOOK THAT REPRESENTS CARMEL LIKE IT SHOULD BE. >> AGREED. >> EVERYBODY GOOD WITH THAT? >> YEAH. >> OKAY, THAT GETS THROUGH OUR AGENDA. IS THERE ANY OTHER ISSUES THAT ANYONE WANTS TO BRING UP? THANK YOU BOTH FROM STAFF FOR BEING HERE. SEEING NO * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.