[TUES, SEPT 23, 2025 - REPORT OF BUDGET ESTIMATES 9 AM] [00:00:23] >>> OCTOBER 6TH CITY COUNCIL AGENDA. JUST TO WRAP UP, WE HAD INITIAL INTRODUCTION MEETING, AND THEN WE HAD TWO WORKSHOPS FOR EACH DEPARTMENT. WE WENT THROUGH EACH DEPARTMENT'S BUDGET. THE COUNCIL GAVE FEEDBACK ON ITEMS THEY WOULD MAYBE LIKE TO SEE ADJUSTS OR CUT. AND THE MAYOR AND HER TEAM HAVE TAKEN THAT INTO CONSIDERATION AND ARE COMING BACK TO US WITH A FEW ADJUSTMENTS TODAY. TODAY'S MEETING, THE MAYOR WILL GIVE A PRESENTATION ALONG WITH ZACH JACKSON, THE CFO. COUNCIL WILL BE ABLE TO ASK QUESTIONS. I DON'T ANTICIPATE THIS WILL BE A MEETING -- IS THERE AND WE WILL NOT SHUT OFF CONVERSATION. I WANT TO MAKE SOME OPENING COMMENTS BEFORE I TURN IT OVER TO OUR MAYOR. I WANT TO THANK MAYOR FINKEM AND THE TEAM FOR LISTENING TO THE COUNCIL. I KNOW THINGS GET UNCOMFORTABLE WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH SERIOUS TOPICS THAT MATTER TO SO MANY PEOPLE HERE. AND WE'RE FACING A LOT OF CHALLENGES WITH ACT ONE. THIS IS NOT A ONE BUDGET SEASON FOR US, BUT WE APPRECIATE YOUR WILLINGNESS TO CONSIDER OUR VIEWPOINTS. THE TWO BIGGEST CHANGES SHE'LL BE GOING OVER, ONE IS EXPERIENCE CARMEL IS NO LONGER IN THE 2026 BUDGET. THAT WILL BE AN ITEM THAT WE WILL CONTINUE TO DISCUSS IN 2026, BUT WILL NOT BE LAUNCHING ON JANUARY 1ST. AND THEN THE CONSULTING MONEY HAS BEEN ADJUSTED. THERE'S ALSO SOME -- DETAIL. I REALLY THANK YOU FOR THAT. I VOW TO YOU THAT I WILL KEEP AN OPEN MIND . >> GOOD MORNING. WE WILL BE UPDATING ON THE BONDING CAPACITY AND QUICK NEXT STEPS FOR YOUR ACTION ON THE BUDGET. TODAY WE ENTER A NEW PHASE OF THE BUDGET PREPARATION FOR 2026. FOR THOSE NOT FOLLOWING CLOSELY SINCE THIS SUMMER, OUR DEPARTMENTS HAVE BEEN WORKING DILIGENTLY WITH ME AND OUR FITNESS TEAM TO MATCH PROGRAMMATIC DESIRES WITH REALITIES. IT'S LONG SLOW WORK, BUT IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT. AS YOU KNOW, SENATE ACT ONE CHANGED THE LANDSCAPE FOR INDIANA CITIES, CARMEL INCLUDED. THAT LEGISLATION CAME LAW. GONE WAS THE EXPECTATION OF CONTINUED GENERAL FUND GROWTH AND AVAILABLE ACCESS TO BOND FUNDS. NOTABLY, THIS TOOK A FURTHER HIT AS THE HAMILTON COUNTY AUDITOR RECENTLY -- CALCULATION ERROR AS THEY INTERPRETED THIS COMPLEX NEW LAW. MY PRIORITIES REMAIN PUBLIC SAFETY, INFRASTRUCTURE, PARKS AND ARTS, BUT NO DEPARTMENT GOT EVERYTHING THEY SOUGHT. TAXPAYERS SHARE THAT FOOD PRICES, BACK-TO- SCHOOL COSTS AND RISING HOME PRICES HAVE HIT THEIR POCKETBOOKS HARD. I'M PROUD TO SAY THAT BY KEEPING THE LINE ON EXPENSES, UNLIKE MANY INDIANA COMMUNITIES, OUR TEAM MEMBERS ARE GETTING MARKET AND COST OF LIVING ADJUSTMENTS THIS YEAR. WE'RE HERE TO ADDRESS THE TWO MAIN CONCERNS. WE ARE SUGGESTING TWO MAJOR CHANGES AS COUNCIL PRESIDENT AASEN SAID, REDUCING BY $120,000 FUNDING TO THE DEPARTMENT OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND ALLOCATING THOSE DOLLARS TO MACK. I BELIEVE A MODEL LIKE EXPERIENCE CARMEL COMMUNITY BASED AND MANY STAKEHOLDERS, IT'S APPROPRIATE THAT THE CITY OF CARMEL GRADUATE INTO THIS MODEL. AS MANY OF YOU EXPRESSED WORRY ABOUT THE TIMING REQUIRED TO REALIZE THE FULFILLMENT OF EXPERIENCE CARMEL, I PROPOSE TO COLLABORATE WITH THE COUNCIL TO BUILD AN EXPERIENCE CARMEL [00:05:03] MODEL THAT MEETS THE NEEDS OF OUR KMUNTS COMMUNITY THAT WE CAN BUDGET THIS TIME NEXT YEAR. MOVING IT OUT FOR 12 MONTHS SHOULD GIVE EVERYONE COMFORT. THE PLAN IS ROOTED IN THE REGIONAL ADVANTAGES OF CENTRAL INDIANA. INDY PARTNERSHIP, THE TEN- COUNTY REGIONAL DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM FOCUSES ON MARKETING THE REGION. SIMULTANEOUSLY WE WORK TO POSITION CARMEL FOR WINS. IT'S A PARTNERSHIP, NOT A DELEGATION. PEOPLE AND BUSINESSES ARE MOBILE. WE HAVE TO BE AN ATTRACTIVE REGION TO SUPPORT FUTURE GROWTH. THERE ARE 100 CARMEL BUSINESSES THAT ARE MEMBERS AND SHARE OUR VISION. WE'D NEED REGIONAL SUPPORT IN THE COMING YEARS BECAUSE BY 2030 WE WHETHER NEED TO IMPORT 18,000 WORKERS TO FILL CARMEL JOBS. BY KEEPING MACK IN HOUSE WE'LL SCARE DOWN THIS INVOLVEMENT AND ASK CRC TO TAKE ON ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT WORK. NORMALLY THEY FOCUS ON REDEVELOPMENT. FOCUS ON PROACTIVITY WILL TAKE SOME -- THIS TEAM HAS HUNDREDS OF MEMBERS THAT WORK FOR OUR COMMUNITY. THEY PERFORM AT A HIGH LEVEL AND DESERVE CREDIT FOR A JOB VERY WELL DONE. THEIR POSITIONS HAVE BEEN SIGNIFICANT LIT LY TRIMMED. THEY ALL DESERVE OUR RESPECT AND SUPPORT. THIS BUDGET SETS PRIORITIES AND MOVES US CLOSER. WE WILL NOT FAIL TO ENSURE CARMEL CONTINUES TO BUILD FOR BIG DREAMS. ZACH JACKSON, OUR CFO, WILL NOW SOME SPECIFICS. THANK YOU SO MUCH. ZACH. >> THANK YOU, MAYOR. THANK YOU, COUNCIL. SO FIRST OF ALL, I JUST WANT TO REITERATE THE PRIORITIES THAT HAVE NOT CHANGED THROUGH THIS PROCESS. AS THE MAYOR MENTIONED, NO TAX INCREASE IS BEING REQUESTED THIS TIME. WE HAVE SPENDING PROPOSED THAT DOES NOT EXCEED AVAILABLE REVENUES. JUST AS A POINT OF CLARIFICATION WITH REGARDS TO THE CHANGES THAT WERE ANNOUNCED FROM THE COUNTY ON THEIR RECERTIFICATION OF NAV, THAT DID NOT CHANGE OUR OPERATING REVENUE ESTIMATE. THAT NUMBER IS STILL $144. 3 MILLION THAT I MENTIONED FOR A FEW WEEKS NOW. WE'LL CONTINUE TO FUND CENTRAL SERVICES AND IMPROVE OUR INFRASTRUCTURE. WE'VE PROVIDED THE TEAM WITH 3% SALARY INCREASE, COLA, BUT NO COLA FOR THE MAYOR OR SENIOR LEADERSHIP. WE MAINTAINED UNAPPROPRIATED RESERVES OF 15% OF OUR ANNUAL BUDGET. THAT INCLUDES 10% IN THE RAINY DAY FUND. AS WE DISCUSSED WE'VE MADE SOME CHANGES IN RESPONSE TO EXPERIENCE CARMEL, TRIMMING SOME EXPENSES OUT OF THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT. SO HOW THOSE ACTUALLY PAN OUT HERE, WE'VE REMOVED THE GRANT TO EXPERIENCE CARMEL THAT WAS IN THE ART SUPPORT AND OPERATIONS BUDGET AND FUNCTIONALLY HAVE SHIFTED THOSE DOLLARS BACKBACK THE PROPOSED MACK DEPARTMENT BUDGET. IT DOES COME AT A SLIGHTLY HIGHER COST BY MOVING THAT IN, I THINK ABOUT $200,000. YOU'LL SEE REDUCTIONS THAT HELPED TO AFFORD THAT CHANGE. WE HAVE TRIMMED OUT 125,000 OUT OF THE REQUEST FOR THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT WITH THE ASSUMPTION AS WELL THAT SOME WORK WILL BE SHIFTED OVER TO CRC. WE MADE A MINOR REDUCTION AT CRC IN TERMS OF SOME MEMBERSHIP FEELS AND OTHER ADJUSTMENTS, WHETHER TO GET TO THESE NUMBERS OR JUST SOME CLEANUP, THERE WAS AN OMISSION IN THE DOCKS BUDGET SO WE NEEDED TO PLUS THAT UP BY 60 GRAND. THE OVERTIME AT BROOKSHIRE THERE, IT WAS OVERFUNDED BY 22 GRAND. ALSO WITH PERMISSION OF THE CLERK, WE REMOVED THE TUITION REIMBURSEMENT FUNDING THAT WAS INCLUDED IN HIS BUDGET, AS THAT WILL BE COVERED BY HR'S APPROPRIATION. AGAIN, THAT WASN'T US UNILATERALLY DOING THAT. THAT WAS IN COOPERATION WITH THE CLERK'S OFFICE. WITH THIS NEXT SLIDE I'D LIKE TO CLARIFY HOW THINGS ARE LOOKING FOR THE ARTS SUPPORT AND OPERATIONS BUDGET LINE. SO I'VE TRIED TO SEPARATE THE ART SUPPORT FROM THE OPERATIONS. SO THE FOUR LINES LISTED AT THE TOP ARE THE SUPPORT FOR THE [00:10:03] ARTS GRANTS, THE PAYMENT FOR REI TO TAKE CARE OF THE JAMES BUILDING THEATERS, AS WELL AS THE CENTER'S MANAGEMENT FEE AS WELL AS THE REIMBURSABLES FOR THE CENTER. IN THIS TOP SECTION, YOU CAN SEE THAT CURRENT YEAR APPROPRIATION IS 6. 6 MILLION. AS OF RIGHT NOW WE'VE SPENT ABOUT 5. 5 OF THAT. AND THEN THE REQUEST FOR NEXT YEAR IS ABOUT 6. 4 MILLION. THAT'S A 3. 1% DECREASE IN THE ARTS SUPPORT SECTION HERE. ON OPERATIONS, THE OVERALL REDUCTION IS -- APPEARS TO BE MUCH MORE SIGNIFICANT, 64.5%. BUT ACTUALLY 1. 23 MILLION OF THAT REDUCTION IS ACTUALLY A SHIFT OVER TOTO FOOD AND BEVERAGE TAX FUND FOR NEXT YEAR. THERE'S SIMPLY NOT ENOUGH GENERAL FUND MONEY TO AFFORD THESE THINGS. OVERALL, THE TRUE REDUCTION IN THAT SECTION IS MORE IN THE BALLPARK OF $200,000 OR $300,000 AS SOME OF THE CAPITAL EXPENSE PROJECTS. RATHER THAN PAYING CASH FOR THOSE NEXT YEAR, WHICH AGAIN WE DON'T HAVE THE CASH TO MAKE THOSE PAYMENTS, INSTEAD WE'RE DOING A CAPITAL LEASE FOR THOSE THINGS. SO WE'RE STILL COVERING THEM. WE'RE JUST COVERING THEM THROUGH A DIFFERENT PAYMENT MECHANISM. MOVING TO THE SURPLUS STATEMENT, THIS LOOKS LARGELY THE SAME AS THE VERSION I SHARED EARLIER THIS MONTH. REALLY THE ONLY CHANGE ON THIS DOCUMENT FROM WHAT YOU'VE SEEN IN THE PAST IS THAT THE PROPOSED BUDGET FOR 2026, THAT 144. 263 IS A NUMBER THAT I THINK IS ABOUT $300 LESS THAN IT WAS BEFORE. SO AGAIN, FOR THE YEAR WE'RE LOOKING AT REVENUES OF 144. 265 MILLION AND APPROPRIATIONS OF 144. 263, LEAVING AN ANNUAL SURPLUS OF JUST UNDER $1700. GENERAL FUND BALANCE REMAINS VIRTUALLY UNCHANGED YEAR TO YEAR AT 10.75. AND THEN COMBINED RESERVES WOULD ALSO BE MAINTAINED AT APPROXIMATELY 23.5. MOVING INTO BONDING CAPACITY, THIS WAS ALREADY SOMETHING THAT WAS GOING TO BE SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER THA OUR CAPACITY LAST YEAR. BUT WITH THE RECERTIFICATION OF NAV, WE WERE AT 12. 689 BILLION FOR CNAV . WITH THE RECERTIFICATION THAT CHANGED TO 12. 4 MILLION. THERE IS NO NEW DEBT THAT'S NEEDED IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN OUR CURRENT PROPERTY TAX RATES FOR 2026. THERE IS THE CAPACITY TO BOND FOR ONE TIME 1. 25 MILLION. HOWEVER, THERE ARE PROBABLY A FEW CONCERNS WITH THAT. THAT WOULD BE, ONE, SENATE ENROLLED ACT ONE DOES DISCOURAGE SHORT- TERM GEO BONDS. THERE ARE SOME WAYS TO -- I DON'T WANT TO SAY GET AROUND THAT, BUT IT DOES NOT RESTRICT LEASE RENTAL BONDS. THERE MIGHT BE A POSSIBILITY OF SLIGHT PAYMENTS TRAILING A ONE- YEAR BOND SO IT WOULDN'T LOOK LIKE A ONE- YEAR BOND. IT WOULD BE RATHER CREATIVE TO GET THERE. ALSO TAKING ON ADDITIONAL DEBT THIS YEAR AS THE LEVY IS IMPACTED BY THE DEDUCTIONS, TAKING ON MORE DEBT THIS YEAR WILL IMPACT OUR OPERATING LEVEE IN 2027 ADVERSELY. ESSENTIALLY WE'D HAVE TO -- OUR OPERATING LEVY WOULD GO DOWN. THEN IF WE TAKE NO ACTION, THE CITY WILL STILL RECEIVE THAT 1.25 MILLION. IT WILL JUST BE ADDED TO THE BALANCES OF THE RESERVES FOR THE PROPERTY TAX BACKED FUNDS. PROPERTY TAX BACKED BOND FUNDS. THEN JUST AS A REMINDER WE HAVE 10/6 THE FIRST READING OF THE BUDGET ORDINANCE AND THEN OCTOBER 20TH IS THE SCHEDULED VOTE. WITH THAT, WE'LL TAKE QUESTIONS. >> ONE THING I WANT TO CLARIFY AT THE END, WHILE WE ANTICIPATE A VOTE ON OCTOBER 20TH, WHAT IS THE STATUTE IF I NEEDED TO CALL [00:15:01] A SPECIAL MEETING BETWEEN THAT AND THE DAY? WHAT WOULD THAT BE? >> LET ME CONFIRM THAT FOR YOU. I KNOW THERE'S A DEADLINE FOR WHEN THE FINANCE DEPARTMENT HAS TO SUBMIT THE BUDGET TO DLGF. THAT'S APPROXIMATELY NOVEMBER 9TH. IT'S NOT SO MUCH THAT THE 9TH IS A FIRM DEADLINE. IT'S MORE YOU HAVE SO MANY DAYS AFTER YOUR MEETING TO SUBMIT IT. >> WE'RE GOING TO SHOOT FOR THAT, THOUGH. I ALSO KNOW THAT AFTER WE PASS A BUDGET, YOU NEED TIME TO MAKE THE CHANGES TO SUBMIT IT. TO MAKE IT CLEAR TO THE PUBLIC, THE 20TH ISN'T THE STATUTORY DEADLINE. IT'S KIND OF OUR HOPEFUL TARGET. WITH THAT, LET ME KNOW IF YOU'D LIKE QUESTIONS, COMMENTS. WHO WANTS TO GET STARTED? COUNCILLOR SNIDER. >> IS THAT PROPOSED SALARY ORDINANCE REFLECTED IN THE BUDGET? >> IT IS . THE PROPOSED SALARY ORDINANCE THAT'S IN COMMITTEE RIGHT NOW HAS,YOU KNOW, ABOUT FIVE EMPLOYEES THAT WOULD RECEIVE A SALARY INCREASE FOR NEXT YEAR. WE'VE BUDGETED FOR THOSE AS WELL AS THE COLA FOR NEXT YEAR, WHICH IS NOT IN THAT SALARY ORDINANCE YESTERDAY. AND THEN ALSO THE STEP INCREASES THAT KIND LAST ROUND OF STEP INCREASES THAT WOULD GO INTO EFFECT JANUARY. -- JANUARY 1ST. THOSE ARE BUDGETED FOR AS WELL. >> THANK YOU. >> COUNCILLOR TAYLOR. >> THANK YOU, ZACH, MAYOR. WHAT WAS OUR RECERTIFIED CNAV? AND IF IT DOESN'T AFFECT OUR GENERAL FUND LEVY, WHAT REVENUES DID IT AFFECT? >> YEAH. IT'S -- SO INITIALLY THEY -- WHEN THEY CAME OUT IN AUGUST, IT WAS THAT $12. 689 MILLION WAS THE CNAV AT THAT TIME. BUT THEN THE NEW CNAV WHICH TECHNICALLY WE'VE SEEN THE NUMBERS -- THEY DO NOT BECOME OFFICIAL UNTIL THIS FRIDAY. THAT'S THAT 12.4. SO THE OVERALL REDUCTION THERE OF 285 MILLION ON CNAV, IT -- THE REDUCTION IS ONLY ON THE DEBT LEVY SIDE. THAT'S WHERE WE WERE ORIGINALLY THINKING THAT WE COULD BOND FOR APPROXIMATELY 4 MILLION. SO NOW IT'S DOWN TO 1.25. >> OKAY. AND THEN JUST REAL QUICK, I HAVE ANOTHER FOLLOW- UP QUESTION LATER I'LL ASK. >> COUNCILLOR WORRELL? >> DID YOU WANT TO ASK THE QUESTION NOW, COUNCILLOR TAYLOR? >> OH, SURE. >> OKAY. >> RELATED, BUT UNRELATED TO THE ARTS, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE AN APPOINTEE TO THE CDC. THE NET OPERATING INCOME FOR THE JAMES BUILDING HAS DECLINED BECAUSE OF THE DEBT SERVICE ON THE MORTGAGE FOR THE JAMES BUILDING. THERE ARE SOME CONCERNS FROM ONE OF OUR APPOINTEES FOR THE ABILITY TO CONTINUE TO RUN THE MASTER LEASE PROGRAM FOR THE ART GALLERIES AND IN PARTICULAR FOR A COUPLE OF THE GALLERIES OR BENEFICIARIES FOR THE ARTS AND DESIGN DISTRICT. I WANTED TO SEE IF WE -- IF I COULD GET A REPORT ON WHERE THAT NET OPERATING INCOME STANDS, WHAT THE PROFIT AND LOSS LOOKS LIKE. ALSO, IS THERE SOLUTIONS MAYBE OF WHAT IS IS THAT CURRENT MARKET VALUE BASED ON WHAT WE THINK IS A -- OUT FOR THE FOR- PROFIT RENTAL. KNOWING THE ENERGY CENTER, ALL THE OTHER ITEMS THAT WE HAVE COMING UP AND THE CHALLENGES, I WONDER IF THEY COULD DO AN ASSESSMENT TO SEE IF THEY COULD SELL THAT FOR- PROFIT COMPONENT OF THE JAMES BUILDING, WHAT TYPE OF REVENUE NET SALES PROCEEDS THAT SALES CREATE AND WHAT TYPE OF OPPORTUNITIES THAT CREATES FOR OUR BUDGET IN 2026, BUT MAYBE EVEN 2027? >> HAPPY TO PROVIDE YOU THAT INFORMATION. WE'RE CURRENTLY LOOKING AT A LOT OF OUR REAL ESTATE HOLDINGS. >> THANK YOU. >> I WOULD ASK TO COUNCILLOR TAYLOR'S EXCELLENT THAT COMMENT THAT ART GALLERIES ARE VERY IMPORTANT. WE CALL IT THE CARMEL ARTS AND DESIGN DISTRICT, NOT JUST THE DESIGN DISTRICT. ANYTHING WE COULD DO TO CONTINUE [00:20:03] TO SUPPORT THOSE ART GALLERIES FLOURISHING IN DOWNTOWN, I THINK, HAS BEEN PART OF OUR STRATEGY. COUNCILLOR -- >> SINCE STUFF IS ROLLING BACK INTO THE MAC DEPARTMENT, COULD YOU GIVE US A SUMMARY? I WAS JUST TRYING TO FIND THE PRESENTATION, BUT COULD YOU GIVE US A SUMMARY NOW WHAT THE MAC BUDGET WAS, WHAT IT'S GOING TO, ALL THE, YOU KNOW, PUTS AND TAKES, IF YOU WOULD. >> HAPPY TO. I BELIEVE THE 2025 APPROPRIATION FOR THE MAC DEPARTMENT IS 4. 2 MILLION AND CHANGE. AS IT WAS ORIGINALLY LAID OUT IN THE BUDGETS WE'VE UNVEILED UP UNTIL THIS POINT, WE HAD REQUESTED APPROXIMATELY I THINK $775,000 FOR THE NEW MAC DEPARTMENT COMMS TEAM. THEN THE GRANT -- THE 775 PLUS THE 1. 8 GETS YOU -- BARELY OVER -- IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY. IN TOTAL, WE HAD TO PLUS IT UP BY ABOUT $228,000 OR SO ONCE WE ADDED IT BACK, SO 2. 8 MILLION IN TOTAL. >> GREAT. OKAY. NOW, SO ALL THE EMPLOYEES STAY -- SO IF WE'RE GOING FROM 4. 2 TO 2. 8, CAN YOU SEND US A DOCUMENT SO I CAN UNDERSTAND WHERE ALL THE PUTS AND TAKES ARE? >> SURE. >> BUT ASSUMING ALL THE EMPLOYEES -- THAT EVERYTHING REMAINS THE SAME, THERE'S SOMETHING DIFFERENT FROM THE 4. 2 TO 2.8. >> I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'LL DETAIL A DOCUMENT FOR YOU. WE NOT KNOWING WHERE THIS IS GOING HAVEN'T DISCUSSED THIS WITH THE MAC TEAM YET. WE HAVE TO DO THIS PUBLICLY BUT NOT YET WITH THE TEAM. KELLY'S BEEN INVOLVED IN ALL THE CHANGES BUT WE'LL GET THAT TO YOU IN WRITING. >> COUNCILLOR -- >> COULD YOU WALK ME THROUGH THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE ARTS GRANT REPORT THAT YOU ORIGINALLY PROPOSED AND THE ARTS GRANTS REDUCTION THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING NOW? >> THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION, COUNCILLOR JOSHI. WE HAVE NOT CHANGED OUR REQUEST FOR THOSE LINES. AND SO THEY HAVE REMAINED THE SAME SINCE THE PAST VERSIONS OF THIS BUDGET THAT YOU'VE SEEN. ON THE SCREEN HERE WE HAVE THE PROPOSED 1. 25 MILLION FOR THE SUPPORT FOR THE ARTS GRANTS FOR 2026. THAT COMPARES TO THE 1. 47 THAT WAS APPROPRIATED THIS THIS YEAR, BUT WE'VE ONLY SPENT 1. 36 OF THAT THIS YEAR. WERE YOU ASKING ABOUT THE MANAGEMENT FEE AS WELL? OKAY. SO, YEAH. THAT HAD BEEN AT 2.25. WE'VE DISTRIBUTED THAT 2. 25 THIS YEAR, AND WE'VE NOT CHANGED OUR REQUEST ON THAT. IT'S STILL AT THE 2. 15, A REDUCTION OF 100,000. WE HAVE INCREASED OUR REIMBURSEMENTS FOR THE CENTER FOR NEXT YEAR. THAT HAS GONE UP FROM WHERE WE BUDGETED 1. 62 MILLION THIS YEAR TO 1. 375 NEXT YEAR. >> CONCERNS ABOUT REDUCTION IN THE FUNDING FOR THE ARTS GRANTS, THERE WAS A CONVERSATION ABOUT TRYING TO HOLD THAT NUMBER AND NOT HAVE THAT SIGNIFICANT OF A REDUCTION. BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT HAS NOT CHANGED, WE HAVE NOT MADE THOSE ADJUSTMENTS TO TRY TO INCREASE OUR SUPPORT FOR THE ARTS GRANTS. >> THAT IS CORRECT. >> I WANT TO GO THROUGH THAT. IT TIES INTO THAT. I ASKED MAYOR FINKAM ABOUT THIS IN A MEETING YESTERDAY. I ANTICIPATE THAT COUNCILWILL HAVE OTHER CUTS THEY SUGGEST THROUGHOUT THIS PROCESS. IT HAPPENED LAST YEAR. IT'LL LIKELY HAPPEN THIS YEAR. IF THAT WERE TO HAPPEN AND THE COUNCIL REDUCES MONEY, IT SITS UNAPPROPRIATED IN THE GENERAL FUND, AND YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO RESTORE EVEN A PORTION OF SOME OF THOSE ARTS GRANTS. WOULD YOU CONSIDER THAT? >> HAPPY TO CONSIDER ANY REQUEST THAT COUNCIL MAKES. MY FIRST PRIORITY WOULD BE THE FIRE STATION AND FUNDING OUR CHILLER, WHICH IS ON ITS LAST LEG THAT SUPPORTS ALL OF OUR ARTS. [00:25:01] >> SO THEN PROBABLY NOT. >> THAT WILL BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION. >> COUNCILLOR MENAR. >> THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR HARD WORK AND DEDICATION. I KNOW THRE WAS TOUGH TOUGH DECISIONS TO BE MADE. I WANT TO TOUCH ON THE ARTS GRANTS. I REALLY WANT THE GENERAL PUBLIC TO KNOW THAT YOU HAVE COMMITTED TO OUR RESIDENT COMPANIES THAT THEY BE A PRIORITY, AND HOPEFULLY THEY RECEIVE THE HIGHER GRANT DOLLARS. BEING SELFISH, I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT. TO COUNCILLOR AASEN'S POINT, THE CHILLERS AND THE FIRE -- >> FIRE STATION DESIGN IN PARTICULAR. >> WHAT WOULD THE COST FOR THOSE ITEMS BE? IF THOSE ARE THE PRIORITY, IT SOUNDS LIKE THE ARTS GRANTS ARE LIKELY NOT BEING RESTORED. >> THE CHILLER WAS $14 MILLION. THERE WAS NO SINKING FUND WE WERE LEFT WITH FOR THAT. WE HAVE TO BE CREATIVE TO GET THAT FUNDED. >> COUNCILLOR TAYLOR. >> THANK YOU, PRESIDENT AASEN. I APOLOGIZE. I'M GOING TO GO BACK IN HISTORY HERE A LITTLE BIT. THIS MIGHT BE HELPFUL TO THESE CONVERSATIONS GOING FORWARD RELATED TO THE CENTER FOR PERFORMING ARTS. WHEN I WAS PRESIDENT OF THE FOUR CDC, WE HAD THE UNIQUE OPPORTUNITY TO WORK WITH THE CITY OF CARMEL AND THE CARMEL REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION TO DEVELOP AND FINANCE THE PALLADIUM AND THE CENTER FOR PERFORMING ARTS. THE ENERGY IS FAILING. THE PURPOSE IS TO SUPPLY HEATING AND AIR TO CITY HALL, PORTIONS OF THE POLICE STATION AND THE ENTIRE CAMPUS OF THE CENTER FOR PERFORMING ARTS. IF THAT FAILS IN THE WINTER OR HEAT OF THE SUMMER, YOU'RE NOT PERFORMING IN THE PALLADIUM. THAT'S A HUGE PRIORITY. I ALSO KNOW DURING THE INITIAL DISCUSSIONS, WE TALKED ABOUT MANY DIFFERENT SOURCES OF REVENUE. AT THE TIME, ONE OF THE DISCUSSIONS WERE RELATED TO FEE REVENUE THAT COULD BE PASSED ALONG THROUGH TICKET SALES FOR CAPITAL ASSET REPLACEMENT. I KNOW THE CENTER HAS DONE A GREAT JOB OF DEVELOPING THE CAPITAL ASSET MANAGEMENT PLAN, IDENTIFYING ONGOING DEFERRED MAINTENANCE, WHICH THEY RECENTLY SHARED, HAVE SHARED IN THE PAST IN THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION BUT ALSO JUST RECENTLY SHARED WITH THE CITY. AT THE TIME, ADDING ADDITIONAL FEES TO THE TICKET PRICES AT THETHE OF A NEWLY FORMED VENTURE BY THE CITY OF CARMEL CHOSEN NOT TO ADAPT ADDITIONAL FEE STRUCTURES TO CREATE ADDITIONAL REVENUE FOR THE CITY AND THESE IMPORTANT ITEMS, INCLUDING PAYING FOR A MANAGEMENT FEE, REPLACEMENT OF BOILERS AND CHILLERS AND LONG-TERM CAPITAL MAINTENANCE FOR THE CENTER. THERE IS NO FUNDING PLAN TO PROVIDE LONG- TERM CAPITAL ASSET MAINTENANCE AND REPLACEMENT FOR THE ENTIRE CENTER CAMPUS, WHICH IS A HUGE PROBLEM. CORE TO THIS -- AND I THINK THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT THE MANAGEMENT FEE TODAY -- IS THAT THE ORIGINAL MANAGEMENT AGREEMENT WITH THE CITY OF CARMEL WITH THE CENTER IS NOT VERY PRESCRIPTIVE. I DON'T KNOW MANY MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OR ACTUALLY OWNERS WOULD MAYBE ENTER INTO A MANAGEMENT FEE STRUCTURE, MANAGEMENT AGREEMENT LIKE THIS, BECAUSE IT DOESN'T PROVIDE ANY GUARDRAILS NOT ONLY FOR EXPECTATIONS OF FUNDING FOR THE CENTER FOR PERFORMING ARTS, THE MANAGEMENT FEE AND FUNDING CAN BE CHANGED AT ANY TIME AT THE WILL OF ANY ADMINISTRATION. BUT ALSO FOR THE CITY, IT DOESN'T PROVIDE GUARDRAILS ON THE INTRODUCTION OF ADDITIONAL FEE STRUCTURES, ET CETERA, THAT COULD HELP FUND THESE ITEMS. SO I IMPLORE THIS ADMINISTRATION, THIS CENTER FOR PERFORMING ARTS AND THIS COUNCIL TO OVER THE NEXT YEAR, TO LOOK AT REALLY INCORPORATING A MANAGEMENT AGREEMENT THAT SOLVES MANY OF THESE PROBLEMS SO WE'RE NOT CONTINUALLY ADDRESSING THESE ISSUES EVERY SINGLE YEAR. I THINK RENEGOTIATING THAT AGREEMENT WOULD CREATE CLARITY AND SOLVE MANY PROBLEMS THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING TODAY. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT STATEMENT, MAKE SURE EVERYBODY WAS AWARE OF SOME OF THAT HISTORY AND SEE IF OVER 2026 WE CAN ENTER INTO A [00:30:02] BETTER MANAGEMENT AGREEMENT THAT PROVIDES BUDGET CLARITY FOR THE CITY OF CARMEL, A CAPITAL ASSET MANAGEMENT PLAN AND HOW WE COULD POSSIBLY FUNDFUND OF THESE ITEMS AND ALSO CLARITY FOR THE CENTER SO THEY KNOW THAT THEIR REVENUE IS COMMITTED THROUGH AA MANAGEMENT AGREEMENT. THANK YOU. >> I WILL POINT OUT THAT YOU SAY WE HAVE THIS ARGUMENT YEAR AFTER YEAR. THIS IS THE ONLY TIME WE'VE HAD THIS ARGUMENT IN THE HISTORY OF THE PALLADIUM. >> I'M NOT SAYING ARGUMENT. IT IS A DISCUSSION EVERY YEAR. >> IT WAS NOT A DISCUSSION LAST YEAR. >> EVEN IF THE -- BUT THE -- THROUGH THE MANAGEMENT AGREEMENT AT THE WILL OF AN ADMINISTRATION THROUGH THEIR BUDGET PROCESS AND THE WILL OF THE COUNCIL, THEY CAN CHANGE THAT MANAGEMENT FEE WITHOUT -- WITHOUT ANY AGREEMENT FOR THE CENTER FOR PERFORMING ARTS BECAUSE OF THE WAY THIS MANAGEMENT AGREEMENT IS WRITTEN. >> COUNCILLOR MENAR. >> I KNOW YOU'LL PROBABLY UPDATE US WITH BUT WITH THE PREVAIL AND CHERISH HOUSE, I THINK THEY CALL IT, THOSE DOLLARS WERE IN THAT $1. 8 MILLION GRANT OR -- >> AND POLICE DEPARTMENT. BOTH OF THOSE AND THE CARMEL POLICE DEPARTMENT -- >> I JUST WANTED TO BE SURE. >> THEY REALLY SUPPORT -- >> YEAH. >> BOTH OF THOSE FUNCTIONS ARE SO INTERTWINED WITH WHAT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT DOES. >> I JUST COULDN'T REMEMBER. THANK YOU. >> I WANT TO GO BACK NOW TO THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT BUDGET. SO THE INDY PARTNERSHIP, THOSE DOLLARS ARE BEING RETURNED TO WHERE FOR INDY PARTNERSHIP? WHERE DO THOSE DOLLARS GO. DOES THAT GO TO CRC OR -- >> WE HAVE NOT SHIFTED THOSE DOLLARS. THE NEW TOTAL FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, I BELIEVE, WOULD BE 120,000. THAT INCLUDES SOME CONTRACT COSTS AS WELL AS SOME TRAVEL COSTS. I'D HAVE TO GET YOU A BETTER BREAKDOWN. I DON'T HAVE THAT OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. WE'VE NOT SHIFTED ANY FUNDING TO CRC. >> OKAY. BUT YOU WILL -- I WAS JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHERE THAT MONEY IS GOING? >> YEAH. SO WE ARE STILL REQUESTING AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT APPROPRIATION OF 120,000. >> OKAY. GOT IT. AND SO THEN UNDER THE THINGS THAT INDY PARTNERSHIP WAS GOING TO DO, UNDERTAKE BUSINESS SECTOR CLUSTER MAPPING, COORDINATE CITY PARTICIPATION AND UP TO TWO VISITING CITY EVENTS IN CARMEL, MANAGE CARMEL MAYOR BUSINESS, REPLY TO BUSINESS LEADS FOR GROWTH OR EXPANSION. HOW IS THAT GOING TO BE COVERED NOW?OR >> THAT'S BETWEEN THE MAYOR'S OFFICE AND THE CRC WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE CLUSTER ANALYSIS. FINDING ANOTHER PARTNERSHIP TO DO IT. >> OKAY. >> WE THINK THE WORK IS IMPORTANT. WE WANT TO PURSUE IT. >> SO THE CLUSTER WILL THEN GOGO THE ONE ZONE -- >> AND REMAIN IN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT BUDGET WHICH WILL BE PART OF A CONTRACT TO ONE ZONE. >> DOES THE ONE ZONE CONTRACT CHANGE IN PRICE? >> I BELIEVE IT DOES. I'LL HAVE TO GET THE DETAILS LATER. >> I WANT TO KNOW. YEAH. SO OKAY. SO THEN -- SO THE ONE ZONE LIST OF ITEMS THAT YOU PRESENTED BEFORE GOES UP BY THAT ITEM, THAT THEY'RE GOING TO INCREASE THE WORK AND INCREASE THE CONTRACT, IS THAT CORRECT? >> WE'LL GET YOU THAT DETAIL IN WRITING. I BELIEVE IT'S CORRECT, BUT I DON'T WANT TO MISSPEAK. >> OKAY. I'LL WAIT. >> COUNCILLOR SNIDER? >> YOU SAY IT'S IMPORTANT. MAYBE I NEED A BETTER UNDERSTANDING. WHY DO WE NEED THE CLUSTER ANALYSIS? I MEAN, I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT FOR AREAS WITH BOROUGHS, LARGE AREAS, BUT HELP ME BETTER UNDERSTAND THAT. >> SO IT WILL ALLOW US TO BETTER TARGET INDUSTRIES AND COMPANIES THAT COULD COME TO CARMEL AS AA NET ANSWER ON THAT, A SHORT ANSWER ON IT. I THINK WE KNOW WE'VE A LOT OF JOBS IN THE WHITE COLLAR SECTOR LIKE FINANCE, KNOWLEDGE- BASED WORKERS, ACCOUNTING, HEALTH CARE. THIS ALLOWS US TO LOOK AT SOME SUB SEGMENTS . I WANT TO MAKE DECISIONS BASED [00:35:02] ON DATA. WE HAVE A FEW CHOOSINGCHOOSING INDIANA AS POTENTIAL HOME IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS. I FEEL AS A CITY WE -- FIT US. I DON'T WANT TO HAVE A SHOTGUN APPROACH, BUT A MORE TARGETED APPROACH. >> I HEAR THE DATA COLLECTION, WHICH IS GREAT. YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TOO MUCH DATA. WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT PEOPLE MOVING HERE, THOUGH, I THINK WE'VE TALKED ABOUT HOW UNTIL WE REDUCE OUR GROWTH UNDER 4%, WE'RE GOING TO BE IN THIS PERPETUAL CYCLE. HOW IMPORTANT IS BRINGING PEOPLE TO CARMEL RESIDENTS WISE? >> WE ANTICIPATE SOME OF THESE CEILINGS ON TOP OF US WILL BE LIFTED FROM THE STATE LEGISLATOR AND ANY LARGE MOVE WILL BE MORE THAN TWO YEARS OUT. IT'S FEEDING THE PIPELINE. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE INTERESTED IN. >> THANK YOU. >> ESPECIALLY YESTERDAYS -- REVENUES AND TAX REVENUES TO US. >> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE COUNCIL? # -- YOU WANT A SECOND -- >> -- SUBJECT. WHEN WE DO OUR -- AND THIS MAY NOT BE AN IMPACT FOR THIS YEAR, BUT AS WE CONSIDER HOW WE'RE TACKLING ISSUES OR TRYING TO FIND ADDITIONAL MONIES, WHEN WE DO OUR RAINY DAY FUND, THE 15% OF -- >> TEN. >> IT'S TEN? IS THAT OFF OF THE TOTAL OPERATING GENERAL FUND, OR IS THAT -- BECAUSE I JUST KIND OF REMOVED ALL THE THINGS THAT WOULD NOT BE NECESSARY IN A SHUTDOWN, FOR INSTANCE. AND IF IT WAS OFF OF THE ACTUAL NEEDS INSTEAD OF SOME OF THE WANTS, WOULD THAT BE AN IMPACT? >> THE 10% WAS ORIGINALLY PUT IN PLACE AT MY REQUEST WHEN I WAS ON CITY COUNCIL TO HAVE SOME KIND OF METRIC WE COULD TRACK. WHAT I'D LOVE TO SEE OVER TIME IS THESE ARE ACTUALLY TIED TO LONG- TERM CAPITAL ASSET NEEDS. SO MAYBE THE RAINY DAY FUND IS 5% OR $3 MILLION OR WHATEVER WE DEEM IMPORTANT AND -- WORK. I DON'T LIKE KEEPING THE BIG AMOUNT THERE THAT COULD BE PUT TO WORK FOR TAXPAYERS. BUT WITHOUT A CAPITAL ASSET PLAN WHERE WE KNOW WHAT WE'RE GOING TO NEED TO SPEND WHEN, IT'S LIKE A REALLY BIG PIGGYBANK IN CASE NEEDS LIKE THE CHILLER COME UP. >> WHAT IS THE LINE ITEM FOR THE RAINY DAY FUND THIS YEAR? >> 14. 3 MILLION. >> 14.3. SO OKAY. YES, TO YOUR POINT -- >> 14.6. SURPLUS STATEMENT -- SECOND TO THE BOTTOM NUMBER THERE. >> JUST TO CLARIFY ALSO, I THINK THE REQUIREMENT IS THAT IT'S 10% OF THAT APPROPRIATED BUDGET FOR THE YEAR. WHATEVER COUNCIL PASSES IS THE OVERALL GENERAL FUND BUDGET. >> IS THAT A STATE THING OR AN US THING? IF WE DID HAVE SOMEBODY LOOK THROUGH THIS AND SAY, OKAY, TO ACTUALLY FUNCTION THE CITY FOR NOW THE WAY IT'S SET UP, WE COULD TAKE OUT A WHOLE BUNCH OF STUFF. THERE'S NO REASON TO -- I HAVE THE CLERK'S OFFICE IN FRONT OF ME. CHAMBER LUNCHEON FEES DOES NOT NEED TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE PERCENTAGE FOR A RAINY DAY FUND. I'M TRYING TO THINK OF A WAY TO REDUCE THAT NUMBER WITHOUT REDUCING THE ABILITY TO SERVE THE COMMUNITY SHOULD SOME DISASTER HAPPEN, IS JUST MY THOUGHT. >> IT'S ARBITRARILY SET AT WHATEVER WE WANT. WE DO HAVE THE 15% REQUIREMENT OVERALLFOR NOT APPROPRIATED FUNDS. I DO FEEL LIKE IT'S RIPE FOR DISCUSSION ONCE WE GET A LONG-TERM CAPITAL ASSET PLAN IN PLACE. THIS WAS THE CONVERSATION WE HAD WHEN THIS WAS PUT IN PLACE WAS WE HAVE A LOT OF SPENDING AND A LOT OF DEBT AND UNCERTAIN TIMES, SO LET'S AT LEAST HAVE SOME POLICY WITH SAVINGS THAT WE AS A COUNCIL CAN CONTROL. >> I WOULD REITERATE AS WE WERE BUILDING THE '26 BUDGET AND '27, IT'S AN ONGOING CHALLENGE FOR 2026 AND 2027. THAT'S WHY WE TRIED TO [00:40:01] USE ONE- TIME DOLLARS APPROPRIATED THIS YEAR OR THROUGH THE FOOD AND BEVERAGE TAX TO TRY TO BUY DOWN OUR SPENDING FOR 2026 AND 2027. >> ANY ADDITIONAL COMMENTS? COUNCILLOR TAYLOR? >> I JUST WANTED TO ALSO ENTER INTO THE CONVERSATION ABOUT THE GENERAL FUND BALANCE AND RAINY DAY FUND BALANCES. WHAT'S ALSO VERY IMPORTANT ABOUT THAT IS CREDITORS AND RATING AGENCIES REALLY LOOK AT WHAT TYPE OF RESERVES WE HAVE. WE HAVE A AA- PLUS BOND RATING RIGHT NOW, SO IN THE FUTURE WE DO NEED TO ISSUE DEBT. THOSE RESERVES ARE VERY IMPORTANT WHEN OUR BONDS ARE BEING RATED, WHICH OBVIOUSLY THE HIGHER THE RATING, THE LOWER COST OF ISSUANCE AND INTEREST RATES. SO THEY HAVE THEIR OWN SORT OF BENCHMARKS ON WHERE THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE OUR CASH BALANCES. IT WOULD BE INTERESTING IF OUR LAST RATING -- ZACH, IF YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO PROVIDE ANY COMMENTARY ABOUT 2024 AND THOSE BALANCES BASED ONON -- S&P. >> WE'LL GET TO SOME OF THE BORROWING STUFF. WE WANT TO STILL TALK ABOUT THIS BUDGET. BEFORE WE -- I WANTED TO SUGGEST IF WE HAVE A SHIFT IN TOPIC, IF THERE ARE ANY CUTS THAT COUNCILLORS WANTED TO BRING UP AND IDENTIFY. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BRING THEM UP AT THIS MOMENT. YOU CAN BRING THEM UP LATER. HAVE YOU SEEN ANY CUTS YOU WOULD LIKE TO SUGGEST FOR THIS BUDGET? >> I JUST HAD ONE QUESTION WHEN WE HAD TALKED ABOUT THE FOOD AND BEVERAGE TAX AND APPLYING IT TO THE CHILLER, THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT, CORRECT? >> THAT'S A POSSIBILITY. WE HAVE NOT AT THIS TIME EARMARKED ANY OF THOSE DOLLARS FOR THAT, BUT IT'S CERTAINLY A POSSIBILITY. >> OKAY. THAT WAS ONE THING I KNOW HAD BEEN BROUGHT UP. THEN THE CONCEPT THAT THE MAYOR TALKED ABOUT WITH THE RAINY DAY FUND BEING USED, FOR EXAMPLE, THINGS LIKE THE CHILLER, THIS LONG- TERM CAPITAL ASSET MANAGEMENT PLAN IS OBVIOUSLY CRITICAL TO A CITY'S INFRASTRUCTURE. AN INFRASTRUCTURE IS NOT SEXY, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT IT IS WHAT ALLOWS US TO CONTINUE TO FUNCTION AS A CITY. I'M ALL FOR CREATING A PLAN LIKE THAT. BUT ALSO, IF THE ORIGINAL INTENT OF THE RAINY DAY FUND WAS TO USE IT FOR CERTAIN SMALL PROJECTS WHERE WE KNEW THERE WAS A SMALL AMOUNT WE WERE GOING TO TAKE OUT AND DO, AND THAT ALLOWED FOR OTHER AREAS OF THE BUDGET TO BE FUNDED. I JUST WANT US TO THINK ABOUT IT CREATIVELY AND ALL OF COUNCIL TO CONSIDER THAT AS WELL AS THE MAYOR AND WORK TOGETHER TO SEE WHERE WE CAN ALLOCATE THESE PIECES. >> COUNCILLORS. I DO HAVE ONE ITEM I WANT TO RAISE FOR DISCUSSION AS POSSIBLE CUTS TO LOOK AT RIGHT NOW. WOULD YOU LOOK AT OUR LEGAL SERVICES, OUTSIDE LEGAL HELP THAT WE'VE HAD THROUGHOUT THE YEARS. I THINK THAT'S REMAINED GENERALLY STATIC. I SUPPORT OUR CITY LEGAL DEPARTMENT BEING ABLE TO USE SPECIALISTS OUTSIDE OF CITY HALL TO PROTECT THE CITY. WE'RE MAKING CUTS EVERYWHERE, I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING WE DO NEED TO LOOK TO CUT. SEE IF WE CAN DO MORE OF THAT WORK IN- HOUSE WITH OUR ATTORNEYS. WE'VE HAD SOME INSTANCES WHERE WE SPENT OVER $100,000 ON -- MAYBE THAT OUTSIDE LEGAL FUNDS IS OVERFUNDED AND WE CAN START DOING A LITTLE MORE WORK IN-HOUSE FOR LEGAL FEES. I'M GOING TO RAISE THAT AS A POSSIBLE CUT. YOU SAY WE'RE MAKING CUTS EVERYWHERE. I'VE LOOKED THROUGH THIS BUDGET. THERE ARE A LOT OF AREAS THAT SAW INCREASES AND NOT CUTS. SO WE'RE GOING TO KEEP LOOKING AT THAT AS WE TRY TO GET A BUDGET FOR OCTOBER 20TH. ANY OTHER COUNCIL COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? COUNSELLOR SNYDER. >> I DON'T HAVE SHEETS RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME, BUT I THOUGHT THE BROOKSHIRE OVERTIME WAS LIKE 44,000. >> THAT'S RIGHT. IT WAS ESSENTIALLY DOUBLE FUNDED IN TWO LINES. SO WE REMOVED ONE OF THOSE 22,000. SO NOW IT'S -- WE CUT THE 44 IN HALF BASICALLY. >> THE DIRECTOR SAID THERE WOULD BE NO OVERTIME, THAT HE DOESN'T DO OVERTIME. >> THERE IS OVERTIME FOR ONE EMPLOYEE THERE. >> OKAY. >> WE CAN ALWAYS -- DON'T HAVE TO GO TO 11:00. [00:45:04] ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.