[00:00:04] >>> GOOD EVENING, CALLING TO ORDER THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS FOR NOVEMBER 24TH, 2025. WOULD YOU PLEASE STAND WITH ME FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. >> LET'S GO AHEAD AND DO ROLL CALL. >> SALIM NAJJAR? DENNIS [D. Declaration of Quorum ] [E. Approval of Minutes and Findings of Facts of Previous Meetings ] LOCKWOOD? >> PRESENT. >> WE DO HAVE A QUORUM . MOTION TO APPROVE MINUTES AND FINDINGS OF FACT FROM THE PREVIOUS MEETING? >> SO MOVED . >> SECOND . >> ALL IN FAVOR? >> AYE. [F. Communications, Bills, and Expenditures (Part 1 of 2)] >> THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT, ANY COMMUNICATIONS , BILLS, AND EXPENDITURES FOR MY CONSIDERATION? OH, THAT IS ONE, TWO, THREE, NEVERMIND, I CAN READ AN AGENDA, SUSPENSION REQUEST FOR NINE, 10, 11, PUBLIC LEGAL NOTICE WAS PRINTED LATE BUT WITHIN THE STATE STATUTE 10 DAY PRIOR REQUIREMENT . ANGIE, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD ? >> NOTHING, BUT WE ASK YOU VOTE TO SUSPEND THE RULES. >> SO MOVED . >> SECOND . >> ALL IN FAVOR? >> AYE. >> I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE ITEMS TWO AND THREE, RULES OF PROCEDURE, SETTING THE CALENDAR FOR NEXT YEAR TO THE END OF OUR AGENDA, SINCE WE HAVE SO MANY PEOPLE AND WE CAN COVER THE PETITION ITEMS FIRST. >> DO WE NEED A MOTION ? >> YOU DON'T, IT IS WITHIN THE [G. Reports, Announcements, Legal Counsel Report, and Department Concerns ] CHAIR'S -- >> WE ARE GOING TO DO THAT. ANY OTHER REPORTS OR ANNOUNCEMENTS OR A LEGAL REPORT ? >> NOTHING FROM LEGAL EXCEPT RULES OF PROCEDURE A MINUTE BUT WE CAN ADDRESS IT LATER. >>> OKAY, THANK YOU. WE WILL [H. (SE) Elliott Short Term Residential Rental Renewal. ] MOVE ON TO OUR PUBLIC HEARINGS, THE FIRST ITEM WE HAVE IS THE SHORT-TERM RESIDENTIAL RENTAL RENEWAL. DOCKET NUMBER PZ2025-100189SE. WOULD THE PETITIONER PLEASE STEP UP AND PRESENT YOUR INFORMATION? >> I AM SORRY, PUSH THE BUTTON AND YOU WILL GET THE GREEN . THERE YOU GO. YOU ARE ON. STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD. >> JEFF, ATTORNEY REPRESENTING THE ELLIOTT'S , TOM AND KAREN. FOR THEIR THIRD RENEWAL OF THE SHORT-TERM RESIDENTIAL RENTAL SPECIAL EXCEPTION. WE HAVE HAD -- I LEFT MY READERS IN MY BAG. >> NO PROBLEM. I CAN RELATE. >> WE ARE VERY SYMPATHETIC TO THAT. >> I HATE THAT I NEED THESE . THE PETITIONERS ON ONE PIECE OF PROPERTY, THERE HAS BEEN SOME SUGGESTION THEY ARE NOT RESIDENTS OF CARMEL FROM SOME OF THE OPPOSITION BUT THIS IS THEIR PRIMARY RESIDENCE, THE ONLY PROPERTY THEY OWN, DEFINED AS A PRIMARY RESIDENCE IN THE MATERIALS THAT WERE SUBMITTED TO THE BOARD. THEY USE IT TO HOST FAMILY GATHERING, A PART OF WHY THEY REMODELED AND EXPANDED IT. AND WE DID IT IN THE WAY THAT THEY DID. IT IS USED AS THEIR PRIMARY RESIDENCE . THEY HAVE PUT A LOT OF MONEY, MORE THAN IF THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN RENTING IT OUT TO STRANGERS ON AN EXCESSIVE BASIS. IT IS 275 DAYS OCCUPIED, WE KNOW THAT BECAUSE THERE ARE NO MORE THAN 90 DAYS RENTED . YES, TOM TRAVELS FOR WORK AND KAREN HAS AN 89-YEAR-OLD MOTHER IN FLORIDA SHE VISITS AND HELPS TAKE CARE OF. BUT NEITHER OF THOSE IS A SURRENDER OF OCCUPANCY. THEY LIVED THERE . IT IS THEIR PRIMARY RESIDENCE. WHEN [00:05:03] I GO VISIT MY BROTHER FOR THANKSGIVING LATER THIS WEEK I WILL NOT BE SURRENDERING OCCUPANCY BY RESIDENCE EVEN THOUGH I AM NOT PHYSICALLY THERE. YOU SURRENDER OCCUPANCY BY RENTING IT TO SOMEBODY ELSE AND HAVING THEM OCCUPIED IT TO THE EXCLUSION UNTIL THEY ARE DONE. THERE IS SOME SUGGESTION THAT THERE IS AN LLC ON THE DEED , YOU SEE THE DEED AND MATERIALS, THERE IS NO LLC, THERE IS A BUSINESS ON THERE, TOM HAS HAD HIS OWN BUSINESS SINCE 1994 AND USES THE HOME ADDRESS AS THE ADDRESS OF THE BUSINESS AS I USE MY HOME ADDRESS FOR MY LAW PRACTICE. THE TENANCY IS QUICKLY MONITORED , THEY HAVE NUMEROUS CAMERAS OUTSIDE, THEY ARE ALWAYS REACHABLE, THEY PROVIDE THEIR TELEPHONE NUMBERS, NOT JUST TO THE TENANTS , NOT JUST EVERYTHING REQUIRED IN THE ORDINANCE BUT PROVIDED TO NEIGHBORS , IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM OR QUESTION, CALL ME, IF THEY ARE NOT HERE, THEY HAVE A FRIEND ONLY 10 MINUTES AWAY WHO IS HERE TONIGHT, WHO HELPS MANAGE IT WITH AN ADULT SON WHO IS IN THE AREA. THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF PEOPLE WHO ARE ACCESSIBLE AND REACHABLE. THEY ONLY RENT TO HIGH-LEVEL FOUR OR FIVE STAR TENANTS AND THAT PRICE TO THIS HIGH TO KEEP IT AS -- SOMETHING CONSISTENT WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THERE ARE SEVERAL SUBMISSIONS WITH THE PACKET FROM SUPPORTED NEIGHBORS , THERE IS A NEW SUBMISSION SHOWING A FEW OF THE PEOPLE WHO SIGNED THE PETITION HAVE BACKED OFF, NOT THAT THEY LIKE THE IDEA OF A SHORT-TERM RENTAL , BUT THEY HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH THE RENTAL BEING DONE BY THEM . THEY MIGHT NOT LIKE AND PREFER SHORT-TERM RENTALS, BUT THEY FELT -- ONE OF THEM INDICATED THEY FELT PRESSURED TO SIGN. THERE HAVE BEEN NO CODE ENFORCEMENT ISSUES. NO COMPLAINTS . NO INCIDENTS , NO POLICE RUNS DURING THE THREE YEARS THIS HAS BEEN RENTED . SOME OF THE OPPOSITION STATEMENTS THAT MY CLIENTS ARE RARELY SEEN AT HOME, THAT IS AN IMPRESSION SOMEBODY HAS COME THAT IS NOT EVIDENCE OF A FAILURE TO OCCUPY THE PROPERTY. THEY SEEK FREQUENT RENTAL ACTIVITY, WELL, IT IS A SHORT-TERM RENTAL, THAT IS PERMITTED . IF YOU WERE TO RENT TWO NIGHTS PER WEEKEND WITH 90 PERMITTED NIGHTS, THAT IS 45 TIMES OVER THE COURSE OF THE YEAR, IF SOMEONE CONSIDERS THAT FREQUENT, MAYBE LESS, SOME QUESTIONS AS TO THE PURPOSES OF THE STAYS, IDENTIFIED BIRTHDAY PARTIES OR WEDDINGS, WHERE THE BRIDESMAID STAY AT THE AIRBNB AND DO THEIR HAIR TOGETHER BEFORE THE WEDDING. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THOSE, NOTHING THAT VIOLATES THE ORDINANCE, WITH THAT SORT OF ACTIVITY . I WOULD ADD THAT THEY HOST BIRTHDAY PARTIES FOR THEIR GRANDCHILDREN. I DO NOT KNOW HOW YOU TELL WHICH BIRTHDAY PARTY IS WHICH NECESSARILY. ONE OF THE LETTERS IN OPPOSITION SAYS THAT THIS HAS BEEN INVERTED TO A SHORT-TERM RENTAL, THAT IS WRONG , AS THEIR PRIMARY RESIDENCE AND WHERE THEY LIVE, THE ONLY PROPERTY THAT THEY OWN. AND IT HAS LIMITED RENTALS PERMITTED UNDER THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION MAY HAVE BEEN GRANTED UNDER THE UDL, THAT SAME NEIGHBORED SAID DIMINISHED PROPERTY VALUES IS ONE OF THE REASONS THEY OPPOSE SHORT-TERM RENTALS AND LED RUNS AT HAVING SHORT-TERM RENTAL DRIVES UP THE PRICES OF THE HOMES. DIMINISHING PROPERTY VALUES AND RAISING PRICES. THE FACTORS THAT THE BOARD IS TO CONSIDER IN THIS ARE , WHETHER THERE HAS BEEN A NEGATIVE EFFECT ON PROPERTY VALUES, THEY HAVE BEEN THERE FOR THREE YEARS WITH A SHORT-TERM RENTAL, THE REALTOR WHO SUBMITTED A STATEMENT INDICATED PROPERTY VALUES HAVE INCREASED OVER THAT TIME. THEY RENOVATED THIS AS INTENDED FOR THEMSELVES, AS THEIR PRIMARY RESIDENCE, THEY PUT A LOT OF MONEY INTO IT TO MAKE IT VERY NICE. THEY PRICE IT AT A HIGH LEVEL TO KEEP PEOPLE FROM COMING IN WHO WOULD NOT BE TREATING IT WELL. IT IS COMPATIBLE WITH EXISTING USES . THEY USED TO BE ANOTHER AIRBNB IN THE CUL-DE-SAC NEARBY, THOSE PEOPLE MOVED AWAY . THEY HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR THREE YEARS. THEY LIMIT IT TO DESIRABLE TENANTS WITH STRICT GUIDELINES THAT ARE ADHERED TO, ALL OF WHICH MEET THE ORDINANCE . OVER THREE YEARS, THEY HAVE HAD NO INCIDENTS. NO CODE ENFORCEMENT ISUES, NO COMPLAINTS , NO POLICE RUNS, NOTHING OF THAT . THE THIRD FACTOR, VEHICLE PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC NEEDS TO BE UNIMPEDED, 35 45 FOOT DRIVEWAY, AMPLE PARKING FOR THE PEOPLE WHO STAY [00:10:02] THERE. THEY HAVE A FENCED IN YARD. THEY KEEP THINGS OFF THE STREET. THEY KEEP THINGS IN THE YARD, IN THE HOUSE. REALLY, WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING AT IS EXACTLY THE SORT OF SHORT-TERM RENTAL THAT THE ORDINANCE HOPED TO ACCOMPLISH. CARMEL ALLOWS A LIMITED NUMBER OF SHORT-TERM RENTALS, THEY ALLOW THEM THROUGH THESE SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS, SPECIAL EXCEPTION HAS BEEN GRANTED , THE STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF THE RENEWAL , AND THE REALITY IS, THIS IS EXACTLY THE KIND OF SHORT-TERM RENTAL YOU WANT THIS ORDINANCE TO GRANT. SO, I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER OTHER THAN TO REQUEST THE BOARD TO AGAIN RENEW THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION . I AM HAPPY TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS. MY CLIENT, HALF OF MY CLIENT, MR. ELLIOTT IS HERE, HIS WIFE HURT HER KNEE AND SHE CANNOT BE HERE . A COUPLE OTHER PEOPLE WHO MAY SPEAK IN FAVOR AND BEYOND THAT I AM HAPPY TO TAKE QUESTIONS . OR COME BACK FOR QUESTIONS. >> THANK YOU, YOU CAN STEP DOWN. DO WE HAVE ANYONE HERE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK IN SUPPORT OF THIS? OKAY. PLEASE COME UP TO THE PODIUM. YOU CAN HAVE UP TO FOUR MINUTES. FIVE MINUTES. >> WE HAD ANOTHER PERSON. I AM SO SORRY . WHERE IS THE SECOND PERSON ? I DID NOT SEE YOUR HAND. SO, YES, LET'S DO THREE MINUTES EACH. SO, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD THE GREEN LIGHT WILL GO ON, WHEN YOU ARE RUNNING OUT OF TIME , THE YELLOW LIGHT WILL GO WANT AND IT WILL GO TO RED. >> MY NAME IS WENDY WILLIS AND I RESIDE ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE ELLIOTTS AND I WANT TO SUPPORT WHAT I WROTE. WE HAVE NEVER HAD ANY ISSUES WITH THE RENTAL , THEY HAVE BEEN DOING IT FOR THE PAST FEW YEARS AND WE HAVE NEVER HAD AN ISSUE WITH ANY OF THE RENTERS. WE HAVE ALSO , ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS, HAVE SPOKEN WITH TOM AND KAREN, ALSO, THE PROPERTY MANAGER IN REGARDS , THEY WOULD ASK IF WE HAD ANY ISSUES AND WE HAVE NEVER HAD ANY ISSUES WHATSOEVER . WE JUST WANT TO SUPPORT THAT . ALSO, SUPPORT THEY CONTINUE WITH THEIR RENTAL. >> OKAY. >> HI, I AM MARGARET BEARD , I ALSO LIVE IN JORDAN WOODS NOT A DIRECT LABOR , I HAVE LIVED THERE FOR 30 YEARS . I HAVE KNOWN TOM AND KAREN FOR MOST OF THAT . THESE ARE REALLY FINE, UPSTANDING PEOPLE, I KNOW THEY REVIEW EVERYONE, I CANNOT IMAGINE -- I AM IN FAVOR OF IT . I DO NOT TAKE IT AS A PROBLEM. I HAVE STAYED IN AIRBNB WHEN I GO ON VACATION AND PREFER IT. I THINK IT IS A GREAT IDEA THAT YOU SHOULD ALLOW IT. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU . ANYONE HERE WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK IN OPPOSITION TO THE PETITION? RAISE YOUR HANDS HIGH SO I CAN SEE HOW MANY -- TWO? OKAY, COME ON UP, DECIDE WHO WANTS TO GO FIRST. THREE MINUTES EACH. >> DO I NEED TO PRESENT? SORRY I DID NOT BRING OUT MY SUIT BUT I HOPE MY DINNER WILL DO, CINDY WEST AND THIS IS MY HUSBAND, JACKSON, WE LIVED NEXT DOOR TO THE AIRBNB COME IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, JORDAN WOODS, MY HUSBAND AND I WERE FIRST-TIME HOMEBUYERS WHEN WE CHOSE TO MOVE TO CARMEL, WE WERE DRAWN TO A STRONG SENSE OF COMMUNITY AND THE STABILITY THAT RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS ARE MEANT TO PROVIDE . WHILE WE DID NOT KNOW WAS THAT WE WOULD BE LIVING NEXT DOOR TO A FULL-TIME AIRBNB. THE ELLIOTT FAMILY OFTEN SHARES THEY HAVE LIVED IN CARMEL FOR 30 YEARS AND RAISE THEIR CHILDREN HERE, WE HAVE LIVED THERE ONLY TWO BUT WE WOULD LIKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO THE SAME. INSTEAD, WE FACED A CONSULTATION OF UNFAMILIAR SHORT-TERM GUESTS, MANY FROM OUT-OF-STATE, EVEN A GROUP FROM CANADA TUESDAY FOR A BACHELOR PARTY . THESE ARE STRANGERS IN YOUR NEXT-DOOR, NOT NEIGHBORS, THIS PROPERTY IS NOT USED AS A HOME . LAST YEAR WHEN [00:15:08] WE SPOKE BEFORE THE BOARD, WE WERE DISMISSED AS EMOTIONAL MEMBERS, THIS YEAR WE GOT THE FACTS, DOCUMENTATION, EVIDENCE FROM CARMEL RESIDENTS LIVED THERE THREE ¿ FIVE DAYS . THE ELLIOTT FAMILY HAS CHOSEN A DIFFERENT APPROACH, INSTEAD OF ADDRESSING THE ORDINANCE REQUIREMENTS, THEY HAVE CIRCULATED A PETITION ASKING NEIGHBORS IF THEY WERE SATISFIED WITH TRASH PICKUP AND MAINTENANCE, PARKING , NOISE, OR WHETHER THEY WERE EMOTIONALLY SWAYED WITH A SIGN OUR PETITION. THOSE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LEGAL CRITERIA FOR A SHORT-TERM RENTAL RENEWAL TO THE CITY OF CARMEL . WE ARE NOT HERE TO DISCUSS TRASH AND MAINTENANCE, PARKING, NOT HERE TO DISCUSS WHETHER SOMEONE FELT EMOTIONAL. WE ARE HERE FOR ONE REASON, THE CARMEL ORDINANCE SAYS THE OWNER SHOULD LIVE IN THEIR HOME AT LEAST 275 DAYS PER YEAR, THAT IS THE SPIRIT OF THE ORDINANCE, THE CENTRAL REQUIREMENT AND THE ONLY REQUIREMENT INCLUDED IN THE RENEWAL APPLICATION. THE OWNERS CANNOT PROVE IT , AND THEY ARE NOW ATTEMPTING TO SIDESTEP IT BY SHIFTING THE CONVERSATION ELSEWHERE. THE ORDINANCE AND RENEWAL APPLICATION COULD NOT BE MORE CLEAR, A SHORT-TERM RENTAL MUST BE THE PRIMARY RESIDENCE OF THE OWNER BUT THEY MUST LIVE IN THE HOME 275 DAYS OR 75% OF THE YEAR, THE SPIRIT AND INTENT OF SECTION 5.73 IS THAT THE SHORT-TERM RENTALS ARE OCCASIONAL, NOT FULL-TIME COMMERCIAL OPERATIONS EMBEDDED IN A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD. TO SUPPORT THIS, WE PROVIDE A SUBSTANTIAL DOCUMENT TATIAN INCLUDING A SIGNED NEIGHBORHOOD TRADITION, A MAP HIGHLIGHTING THE HOUSEHOLDS THAT SIGN THAT WHICH YOU WILL SEE CIRCLED THE PROPERTY, SCREENSHOT FROM THE AIRBNB SHOWING EXTENSIVE DATE, THROUGH 2026 WHICH WOULD BE INCONSISTENT WITH THE 275 DAYS OF OCCUPANCY . SCREENSHOTS FROM THEIR INSTAGRAM ACCOUNT ADVERTISING THE PROPERTY FOR A BIRTHDAY CELEBRATION, 40TH BIRTHDAY CELEBRATIONS , NOT GRANDCHILDREN, WEDDING EVENTS, DESTINATION STATES, CALLED A MODERN HOME WITH CABIN VIBES . 13 OF THE CLOSEST HOUSEHOLDS MOST IMPACTED AND PROVIDED SIGN STATEMENTS CONFIRMING THE FAMILY HAS NOT LIVED IN THE HOME THIS YEAR. MANY NEIGHBORS ARE INAUDIBLE ] THESE ARE FACTUAL OBLIGATIONS BY LONGTIME CARMEL RESIDENTS, NOT EMOTIONAL REACTIONS . >> INITIAL THOUGHT . >> I AM SPEAKING -- >> FINISH A THOUGHT. >> I HAD YOU TO FINISH WHATEVER THOUGHT, WRAP UP NOW . >> THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS DECISION MUST BE WE ARE ASKING THE BOARD TO UPHOLD THE ORDINANCE AS WRITTEN AND PROTECT THE INTEGRITY OF OUR REGIMENTAL ZONING, OUR CONTINUED COMMITMENT TO FAIRNESS, TRANSPARENCY, AND MAINTAINING THE QUALITY OF LIFE IN OUR COMMUNITY. >> MY NAME IS JENNY WILEY AND I REPRESENT MY HUSBAND, GEORGE, WE HAVE FOUR KIDS AND LIVE -- HAVE BEEN THERE 10+ YEARS AND WE ARE ONE HOUSE DOWN FROM THE AIRBNB. WE SIGNED THE LETTER, OR THE PETITION IN OPPOSITION, WE SUBMITTED AN OFFICIAL LETTER OURSELVES. WE PLEAD THE CITY TO RECONSIDER APPROVING THE EXTENSION OF THIS CASE . OUR OPPOSITION RESTS ON THE FACTS, THEY ARE IN VIOLATION OF REQUIREMENT AND MISREPRESENTING THEIR INTENT . REGARDLESS OF WHAT IS REPRESENTED TO THE BOARD ON THEIR BEHALF EACH YEAR, THEY DO NOT LIVE IN HIS HOME, THEY HAVE NOT LIVED THERE FOR A FEW YEARS NOW. IF THE HOME IS NOT BEING RENTED, IT IS VACANT. AS PERMANENT RESIDENT OF CARMEL , I DO NOT FEEL MY FAMILY HAS ANY RIGHT TO PROTECTION. WE AS NEIGHBORS PERMANENT LIVING IN OUR HOMES, IF WE WANTED TO BUILD A PRIVACY FENCE TO BLOCK THE VIEW OF THE AIRBNB, WE WOULD NOT BE PERMITTED TO DO SO BASED ON THE CODES. I WOULD LIKE FOR THE CITY OF CARMEL TO PUT PERMANENT RESIDENCE IN THEIR SUBDIVISIONS OVER THIS BUSINESS VENTURE. >> THANK YOU . PETITIONER , DO YOU WANT TO RESPOND? >> IT IS A WELL-KNOWN PROVISION OF THE LAW THAT IMPRESSIONS ARE NOT FACTS, NOT EVIDENCE. THE STATEMENTS SUBMITTED BY THE OPPOSITION SAY THINGS LIKE, THE PETITIONERS ARE RARELY SEEN. THAT IS NOT ESTABLISHING A FAILURE TO OCCUPY THE REQUIRED 275 DAYS. FROM A LEGAL STANDPOINT, YOU OCCUPY YOUR HOME , YOU HAVE YOUR THINGS IN YOUR HOME . WHETHER YOU ARE THERE OR NOT, IF I AM NOT AT MY HOUSE, I [00:20:02] HAVE NOT CEASED TO OCCUPY IT. I DO NOT THINK CITY COUNCIL AND PASSING IS WHAT IT IS INTENDED, OR CODE ENFORCEMENT, TO BE PEEKING THROUGH YOUR WINDOWS TO SEE IF YOU'RE ON THE COUCH. THE WAY YOU FIGURE OUT THE 275 IS TO MONITOR HOW MANY DAYS YOU RENT. 90 DAYS OR FEWER. OCCUPY FOR 275, FROM A LEGAL STANDPOINT THAT IS THE WAY IT MAKES SENSE AND SHOULD BE HANDLED, MY CLIENTS RENT FOR LESS THAN THAT. IN ADDITION, IT IS THE ONLY REAL ESTATE OWN. IT IS THEIRTHAT THEY PRIMARY RESIDENCE, THERE ONLY RESIDENCE DO THEY SPEND TIME AWAY , YES, WE ALL SPENT TIME AWAY FROM OUR HOMES. WE DO NOT PENALIZE PEOPLE FOR THAT. WITH RESPECT TO -- PARDON ME, ONE SECOND . WITH RESPECT TO THE FACT THAT -- THE IDEA THIS IS A FULL-TIME AIRBNB, IT IS NOT, ON THE AIRBNB SITE, YOU SEE MORE DAYS AVAILABLE TO RENT THAN THERE ARE AVAILABLE FOR THEM TO RENT. THAT IS SO PEOPLE CAN CHOOSE. IT IS AVAILABLE TO RENT SUNDAY THROUGH SATURDAY THIS COMING WEEK, BUT SOMEONE CHOOSES TO RENT IT FOR TWO DAYS, BECAUSE IT COULD HAVE BEEN WRITTEN OTHER DAYS, TO GET TO THE 90 PERMITTED FOR THE YEAR, DOES NOT MEAN IT IS NOT BEING OCCUPIED FOR SOMEONE TO SCHEDULE IT OUT IN A FEW WEEKS . MY CLIENTS DO NOT HAVE TO ACCEPT SOMEONE WHO TRIES TO RENT IT WHEN WE CANNOT NOT BE HERE SO WE WILL NOT RENT IT THAT DAY. I UNDERSTAND HOW SOMEONE LOOKS AT THAT , WHEN THEY LOOKING FOR A WAY TO COME TO -- THEY ARE NOT OCCUPYING US, THEY SAY LOOK AT ALL THE DAYS AVAILABLE ON AIRBNB, THEY ARE NOT ALL AVAILABLE, THEY COULD NOT RENT IT FOR THAT MANY DAYS BECAUSE THAT IS NOT ALLOWED. NOT ALLOWED BY THE ORDINANCE, NOT ALLOWED BY MY CLIENTS WHO ARE THE ONES WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ACCEPTING A BOOKING, NOT ALLOWED BECAUSE IT IS THEIR HOUSE. IT IS THE RESIDENCE, IT IS WHERE THEY LIVE. THEY PUT THIS MONEY INTO THE HOUSE FOR THEIR RESIDENCE AND LATER DECIDED TO BE SHORT-TERM IN ITS -- SHORT-TERM RENTALS, THEY SUBMIT THE APPLICATION FOR RENEWAL, AGAIN, THE CITY -- THE DEPARTMENT HAS RECOMMENDED THAT THE FINDINGS OF FACT BE ADOPTED. WHILE I APPRECIATE THAT NOT EVERYBODY LIKES THE IDEA OF AN AIRBNB BEING AVAILABLE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THE CITY HAS DETERMINED THAT, THE CITY HAS APPROVED IT AND THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE ORDINANCE HAVE BEEN AND CONTINUE TO BE SATISFIED. >> THANK YOU . WE WILL MOVE TO THE CITY REPORT. >> THANK YOU. SO, THIS IS A RENEWAL REQUEST FOR SHORT-TERM RENTAL, THIS IS A SPECIAL EXCEPTION APPLICATION , THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE DOES STATE THAT AN APPLICATION FOR THE RENEWAL OF A SPECIAL EXCEPTION SHALL GENERALLY BE ENTITLED TO A FAVORABLE CONSIDERATION . WE DO TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT WITH THE STAFF REPORT . WE HAVE ALSO CHECKED WITH THE CODE ENFORCEMENT DEPARTMENT AND CARMEL POSTMODERN AND THERE HAVE BEEN NO INCIDENTS OR REPORTS MADE WITHIN THE LAST YEAR. WE HAVE RECEIVED SEVERAL LETTERS FROM THE PUBLIC, BOTH ARE IN FAVOR OF AND AGAINST, IT IS NOT SWAYED ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. WITH THAT BEING SAID, PLANNING STAFF DOES SUPPORT THIS RESIDENTIAL RENEWAL AND RECOMMENDS CONSIDERATION OF THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION REQUEST AND THE ADOPTION OF THE FINDINGS OF FACT. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS FROM BOARD MEMBERS? >> THE OLD SAYING, "SPLITTING HAIRS." CAN YOU COME UP THERE, PLEASE? TO SAY WHAT THE CITY COUNCIL DID OR DID NOT IMPLY, YOU ARE INACCURATE, I WAS ONE OF THOSE CITY COUNSELORS, YES, THE LAW IS INVOLVED BUT COMMON SENSE ENTERS INTO A CONVERSATION ALSO. [00:25:03] HOW MANY DAYS DID THE FAMILY STAY IN THE HOME LAST YEAR? I AM NOT SAYING, OWNED THE HOME, HOW MANY DAYS DID THEY STAY THERE ? >> I CANNOT ANSWER THE QUESTION. >> THEN, ONE NEEDS TO COME UP BECAUSE I WILL ASK . IT IS THE INTEGRITY OF THE ARGUMENT. >> YOUR NAME? >> TOM ELLIOTT, OWNER. HOW MANY DAYS DID WE SLEEP IN THE HOUSE? I CANNOT TELL YOU. >> 200? 100? 50? BALLPARK IT, JUST FOR FUN. >> I CAN'T TELL YOU, NOT EXACTLY. SPEAK UP WHEN YOU GO TO FLORIDA, YOU STAY WITH HER MOTHER? >> YES. >> IS HIS -- IT IS HER PROPERTY? >> SHE HAS PHYSICAL ISSUES . >> YOU MORE OR LESS HAVE A RESIDENCE IN FLORIDA BUT IT IS YOUR MOTHER-IN-LAW'S? WE ARE SPLITTING A LOT OF HAIRS IN THIS ARGUMENT. THIS IS NOT YOUR MAIN RESIDENCE IF YOU CANNOT TELL ME HOW MANY DAYS YOU STAY THERE OR EVEN BALLPARK IT. IT IS NOT. >> JUST BECAUSE WE ARE GONE, DOES NOT MAKE IT OUR MAIN RESIDENCE. >> THAT IS SPLITTING HAIRS . NO LAWYER CAN MAKE A COMMENT FROM A LEGAL STANDPOINT, I GET IT , I GET WHAT HE IS SAYING . BUT THERE IS AN INTENT BEHIND THE ORDINANCE . THAT ALSO GETS RULED ON BY A JUDGE. NOT JUST WHERE EXACTLY IT FITS INTO THE LAW. THEY ALSO LOOK AT THE INTENT. YOUR INTENT , YES, YOU CREATED A NICE PLACE FOR YOUR FAMILY TO HAVE EVENTS AND I RESPECT THAT, THAT IS GREAT . A PLACE WHERE YOU CAN HAVE FAMILY GATHERINGS. THAT DOES NOT MEAN YOU MADE IN YOUR PRIMARY RESIDENCE. IF YOU ARE NOT STAYING THERE, A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME, YOU ARE SPLITTING TOO MANY HAIRS FOR ME. >> MAY I RESPOND ? >> YOU MAY. >> WE REMODELED THIS HOME, WE HAD NOT REMODELED IN 25 YEARS, THE REASON WE REMODELED IT THE WAY WE DID IS BECAUSE WE WANTED TO HAVE -- WE LOOK AT MOVING TO ANOTHER LOCATION WITHIN CARMEL . WHAT ARE WE GIVING UP? SHOULD WE FIX UP THE HOUSE TO SELL , SHOULD WE SELL IT AT IS -- AS IS? WE DECIDED TO STAY, WE LOVE THE NEIGHBORHOOD, WE HAVE BEEN THERE 30 YEARS, WE MADE IT FEEL LIKE PLACES WE LIKE TO GO ON VACATION. THAT IS WHAT WE DID. WE STARTED THE PROCESS IN 2018 . >> DID YOU STAY THERE MORE DAYS THAN YOU RENTED IT LAST YEAR? >> I WOULD SAY SO? >> AND, I JUST, TO OWN A PROPERTY, FEELS LIKE YOU HAD CREATED MORE OF A BUSINESS THAN YOU HAVE A RESIDENCE . >> THAT IS NOT WHAT WE ARE DOING THIS. WE DO NOT WANT HIM TO BE EMPTY, WE WANTED TO BE LIVED IN. >> DO YOU RENT IT WHEN YOU'RE IN TOWN? >> YES. >> WHERE DO YOU GO? >> A FEW DAYS AGO. >> SO, THIS IS A TOUGH ONE, THE RESIDENTS THAT SPOKE IN OPPOSITION , I SYMPATHIZE WITH YOU, WHEN YOU BRING IN A SHORT-TERM RENTAL INTO A NEIGHBORHOOD, IT CAN DISRUPT THE LOOK AND FEEL OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. IN CARMEL, WE KNOW OUR NEIGHBORS , WE KNOW WHO EVERYBODY IS, TO HAVE A HOUSE WHERE IT IS CONSTANTLY TURNING OVER, SOMEBODY NEW, WHETHER IT IS JUST NEW PEOPLE OR PARTIES OR WHAT HAVE YOU , THAT CAN BE DISRUPTIVE TO THE CHARACTER AND I COMPLETELY SYMPATHIZE WITH THOSE WHO HAVE SPOKEN UP IN OPPOSITION. IN FACT, I AM ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND, AS A MATTER OF COURSE, EVERY TIME A NEW PUD COMES THROUGH, WII RIGHT [00:30:03] INTO THE TEXT THERE SHALL BE NO SHORT-TERM RENTALS BECAUSE WE WANT TO PROTECT AND PRESERVE OUR NEIGHBORHOODS, IT IS REALLY TOUGH , IF IT IS THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR TO YOU, THAT IS COSTLY CHANGING OVER, I HAVE COMPLETE SYMPATHY, I AM TRYING TO HEAR, ARE YOU REALLY THERE? IT SOUNDS, SAME THING AS WHAT HE SAID, I AM LISTENING TO YOU DESCRIBE, ARE YOU LIVING IN THIS PLACE OR IS THIS TRULY A BUSINESS? I AM A LAWYER AND I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING BY OCCUPY AND WHAT THAT MEANS , BUT I AM LISTENING TO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND I CANNOT TELL , FROM WHAT I HAVE HEARD SO FAR, IF THIS IS TRULY BEING RUN AS A BUSINESS OR IF YOU WERE REALLY THERE ARE ENOUGH TO MAKE THIS YOUR HOME? I AM STILL TRYING TO HEAR THAT EXPLANATION . I HAVE NOT GOTTEN CLARITY ON THAT POINT. >> MAY I SPEAK TO THAT? >> PLEASE. >> WE DID NOT WANT TO LEAVE THE HOME UNOCCUPIED WHILE WE WERE CARING FOR MY MOTHER-IN-LAW. WE HAVE TO PAY FOR TRAVEL, BECAUSE DRIVING THAT DISTANCE IS NOT TENABLE. WE MAKE THE MONEY TO OFFSET ALL THE EXPENSES OF KEEPING THE HOUSE UP BECAUSE IT IS OUR PRIMARY RESIDENCE. WE WANT TO KEEP IT FUNCTIONING , WE DO NOT WANT TO LEAVE IT EMPTY, ESPECIALLY DURING THE WINTER, WE DO NOT WANT THE PIPES TO FREEZE. THAT IS THE REASONS WE ARE DOING THAT. TO OFFSET EXPENSE OF MY MOTHER-IN-LAW . WE ARE JUST TRYING TO BE THE BEST WE CAN. WE NEVER DREAMT OF DOING THIS. WE NEVER HAD THAT IN THE PLANS. WE NEVER PLAN ON HAVING MY FATHER-IN-LAW PASSED AWAY TWO YEARS AFTER WE GOT HOME AND MY MOTHER-IN-LAW HAVING ISSUES. WE ARE DOING THE BEST WE CAN IN THIS TIMEFRAME, THIS SEASON OF LIFE , TO TRY TO MAINTAIN THE BEST THAT WE CAN , TO TRY TO GIVE OUR RESIDENTS FUNCTIONING AND MAKE SURE WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO COME IN THAT ARE GOOD, QUALITY PEOPLE, FIVE STAR RATED BY THE AIRBNB ASSOCIATION BECAUSE PEOPLE WHO READ GET -- PEOPLE WHO RENT GET RATED BY THE RENTOR. WE ONLY LET FIVE-STAR PEOPLE AND, WE KNOW WHO WILL BE THERE, USUALLY GIVES YOUNG FAMILIES, WITH SPORTS ACTIVITIES IN THE PARK, WE HAD PEOPLE COME TO PLAN A FUNERAL . A WHILE BACK THERE WERE YOUNG LADIES WHO HAD A PARTY BUT NOT WILD , I THINK THERE WAS 10 OF THEM. VERY REASONABLE SITUATION TO WHERE PEOPLE PREFER TO HAVE A GET TOGETHER IN A HOME, WE HAVE FOUR BEDROOMS AND THREE FULL BATHS TO ACCOMMODATE 12 PEOPLE. WE MAKE SURE THAT WE KNOW WHO IS COMING. WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO BE DOING. >> THANK YOU FOR THAT EXPLANATION . >> I HAVE ONE MORE . THE PETITION THAT WAS SIGNED, AS YOU PROBABLY SAW ON DIAGRAMS OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE CANNOT SEE OUR HOUSE, WE LIVE ON LARGE LOTS , LARGE WOODED LOTS AND SOME PROPERTIES YOU CANNOT EVEN SEE OUR PLACE. YOU WOULD HAVE TO GO INTO THE BACKYARD. THEY SAID THEY ARE TWO HOUSES NORTH OF US, I CANNOT SEE THEIR HOUSE FROM OUR HOME. I WOULD HAVE TO GO TO THE BACKYARD TO SEE WHAT IS GOING ON. >> I MAKE OUT TO THAT POINT, YOUR HOUSE IS IN A PROMINENT CORNER LOCATION, THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS , LARGE LOTS , FABULOUS , WONDERFUL, OLDER NEIGHBORHOODS , THERE IS SOME DISTANCE. YOU ARE LOCATED IN A FAMILY -- FAIRLY PROMINENT PLACE AND I'M SURE EVERYBODY DRIVES BY. >> WE INVESTED ALL THE MONEY TO WORK ON THE HOUSE TO MAKE MONEY ON A SHORT-TERM SITUATION BECAUSE IT IS A SHORT-TERM SITUATION AS WELL. >> WE WILL MOVE ON. >> I AM TROUBLED BY YOUR RESPONSE TO THE QUESTION OF HOW MANY DAYS YOU OCCUPY THE HOME, TO THINK THAT YOU DO NOT TRACK HOW MANY DAYS YOU RENT THE PROPERTY. >> WE DO KNOW THAT. I THOUGHT THAT WAS THE QUESTION. >> WE INDICATED, THEY TRACK THEY WILL NOT RENT THIS FOR MORE THAN [00:35:13] 90 DAYS, WHICH KEEPS 275 NOT BEING RENTED. THAT BEING SAID, IT IS UNDER THAT, FEWER THAN THE MAXIMUM NUMBER OF DAYS . >> I STILL SUPPORT YOUR PETITION BUT I TROUBLED BY YOUR ANSWERS. >> SO, I THINK IF I WERE RENTING MY HOUSE AND KNEW I HAD TO OCCUPY IT FOR 275 DAYS TO GET MY RENEWAL, I WOULD TRACK HOW MANY DAYS I WAS IN THE HOUSE. SO THAT I COULD STATE FOR THE RECORD HOW MANY DAYS . YOUR RESPONSE TROUBLES ME AS WELL. ALSO, JUST TO CORRECT THE STATEMENT THAT WAS MADE, NOT THAT YOU HAVE TO RENT IT LESS THAN, FEWER THAN, SOMEBODY DO THE MATH, YOU SAID 90, NOT THAT IS HAS TO BE WRITTEN FEWER THAN 90 DAYS, YOU HAVE TO OCCUPY IT 275, THAT IS HOW IT READS IN THE UDO . I WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION . >> IF I MAY? >> I THINK WE ARE DONE. >> I WANT TO CLARIFY THAT , WHEN WE MAKE MOTIONS, WE MAKE THEM IN A POSITIVE. IF YOU ARE NOT SUPPORTING A MOTION, YOU VOTE NO. MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE. >> AYE. >> WE NEED A SECOND FIRST. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? >> I SAID AYE, WHICH MEANS AYE, I APPROVE . >> WE NEED A SECOND. >> SECOND. SORRY. >> ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ? THIS DOES NOT PASS AND WE WILL PREPARE FINDINGS OF FACT. THANK [H. (UV,V) Baek Bakery & Kitchen Use Variance and Variances. ] YOU. MOVING TO THE NEXT PETITION, MAKER AND KITCHEN VARIANCES, DOCKETS -- PZ202500223V, AND PZ202500227V. THERE YOU ARE. PUSH THE BUTTON SO THE MIC IS ON. >> CAN YOU HEAR ME? >> YOU HAVE 15 MINUTES TO PRESENT. >> WE ARE, FIRST, WE ASK, USE VARIANCE, WHILE -- THE CITY OF CARMEL PROPOSAL -- ALONG THE 106, OUR ADDRESS IS 625 EAST 106TH STREET, THE HOUSE IS LOCATED ON 106 STREET. OUR HOME IS ISOLATED ASLAN BLOCKED BY COMMERCAL PROPERTY BETWEEN US AND THE FRONT. WE TRIED TO -- THE STATUS SOME SMALL BUSINESS , A BAKERY, KOREAN KITCHEN. WE HAVE ONLY ONE OWNER. PARKING LOT FACILITATOR , THE CITY LAW, LANDSCAPING. THEN, WE ARE READY TO MODIFY ACCORDING TO THE PLAN [00:40:09] RUN VERY SMALL , WE ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE A LOT OF THE BUILDING . BUILDING NEW PARKING LOT IS FOR FOLLOWING THE LAW. THAT IS ALL. THIS IS CURRENTLY THE PLAN. THIS LINE IS THE 106 STREET, THIS IS OUR HOME. THE LOCATION IS -- OOPS. THIS IS THE HOME. OH. THIS IS THE HOME. THIS IS OUR HOME. THIS LEFT SIDE IS THE COMMERCIAL BUILDING. THE FRONT PART IS COMMERCIAL FACILITY . THIS IS ISOLATED. SORRY. I DON'T KNOW MUCH. >> THAT IS GREAT, THANK YOU. YOU CAN HAVE A SEAT. DO WE HAVE ANYONE TO SPEAK IN SUPPORT OF THIS PETITION? I DO NOT SEE ANYONE . DO WE HAVE ANYONE TO SPEAK IN OPPOSITION OF THIS PETITION? CAN WE HAVE THE DEPARTMENT REPORT, PLEASE ? >> YES . THE PETITIONER SEEKS USE VARIANCE APPROVAL TO CONVERT EXISTING HOUSE STRUCTURE INTO A BAKERY AND KITCHEN USE. THIS SITE IS BASICALLY IN THE HEART OF THE HOMEPLACE BUSINESS DISTRICT NEAR 106 AND COLLEGE. THEY WILL ADD LANDSCAPING, SMALL PARKING LOT, LOW LEVEL EXTERIOR LIGHTING, PLANNING STAFF THINKS IT DOES MEET THE INTNT OF THE HOMEPLACE SUBAREA PLAN WHICH IS CURRENTLY BEING REVIEWED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. THE OTHER VARIANCES REQUESTED ARE FOR LOT COVERAGE, GOING FROM 35% OF TO 41% AND THAT IS A 6% INCREASE JUST TO ADD THE SMALL PARKING LOT TO ACCOMMODATE FOR THE REQUIRED PARKING. THERE IS ALSO A ZONING ORDINANCE STANDARD THAT STATES THAT LOTS IN HOMEPLACE BE CONNECTED WITH ALLEYS OR INTERNAL DRIVEWAYS. THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT IS OKAY WITH THIS BEING ITS OWN PARCEL WITH ACCESSED DIRECTLY TO 106 STREET , WE ARE SUPPORTIVE OF THE VARIANCE. THE PETITIONER DOES -- IS CURRENTLY WORKING ON ADDRESSING THE REMAINING TECHNICAL REVIEW COMMENTS AND PROJECT DOCUMENTS . WE DO ASK THAT YOU CONDITION OF APPROVAL IF YOU DO APPROVE THIS REQUEST, ANY REMAINING REVIEW COMMENTS ARE ADDRESSED AND WE ALSO RECOMMEND ADOPTION OF THE FINDINGS OF FACT. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS? >> I THINK I AM IN SUPPORT OF THIS THE SUBAREA PLAN MOVED OUT OF THE PLAN COMMISSION AND THIS IS THE KIND OF BUSINESS WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, WE WANTED TO BE, LOCALLY OWNED, SMALL BUSINESSES, THIS LOCATION IS DESIGNATED IN 106 STREET ,■ BUSINESS DISTRICT THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THIS BUSINESS TO THE AREA AND I WILL BE IN SUPPORT OF THIS. >> THANK YOU . >> DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING? GO AHEAD. >> I ALSO AM IN FAVOR OF THE PROJECT. I THINK IT REALLY DOES MEET THE INTENT OF MAINTAINING A VILLAGE TYPE ATMOSPHERE FOR THE HOMEPLACE BUSINESS AREA. I ALSO COMMEND THE STAFF FOR AGREEING TO NOT HAVE THE CONNECTIVITY ISSUES. I THINK , WITH THE SIZE OF THE SITES, ON EITHER SIDE AND YOURS, AND WITH THE RESIDENTIAL TO THE SOUTH, TRYING TO GREET AN ACTIVITY BETWEEN THOSE WOULD VIRTUALLY BE IMPOSSIBLE . THE BUILDING TO THE WEST BLOCKS ANY CONNECTIVITY . ALL IN ALL, THIS [00:45:06] LOOKS LIKE A VERY GOOD USE FOR THE AREA FOR THE PROPERTY. AGAIN , I AM IN SUPPORT OF IT. >> THANK YOU. >> WOULD YOU ENTERTAIN A MOTION? >> I WOULD. >> WORKING THE PROJECT DOCUMENTS OUT WITH STAFF, APPROVED THE FINDING OF FACTS. >> I SECOND. >> ANY ADDITIONAL DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR? >> AYE. >> ANY OPPOSED? THAT IS APPROVED. THANK YOU. MOVING ON, [H. (V) Irsay Private Ice Rink Special Use and Variance. ] PRIVATE ICE RINK SPECIAL USE VARIANCE, DOCKET NUMBER PZ202500218SU, AND PZ2025200219V. YOU ARE ON. >> GOOD EVENING MEMBERS OF THE BOARD, JOE, 11 SOUTH MERIDIAN, INDIANAPOLIS, REPRESENTING JAMES OR SAY -- JAMES IRSAY ARENA, OWNED BY CASEY FOYT, NIGEL HAAS, INVOLVED IN MANY OF THE CONSTRUCTION PROCESS -- INCLUDING THE ICE RINK ON THE IRSAY ESTATE. HERE IS WHAT IS HAPPENING, NOTHING, THE ICE RINK HAS BEEN IN PLACE FOR NUMBER OF YEARS AND WAS APPROVED, GIVEN A CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY, AT THE TIME IT WAS BUILT , IT WAS PART OF A LARGER JIM IRSAY ESTATE, WHICH YOU CAN SEE TO THE WEST OF THE ICE RINK, WHICH IS RIGHT HERE . FOLLOWING MR. IRSAY'S PASSING, THAT WAS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR ONE OF HIS FAMILY MEMBERS WHO REBUILT THE ICE RINK FOR, TO RETAIN OWNERSHIP OF AN ICE RINK PARCEL. IN SEPTEMBER, THE LLC WAS FORMED AND IS SOLELY OWNED BY MS. IRSAY-FOYT, FOR THE PURPOSE OF ENJOYING THE ICE RINK FOR FRIENDS AND FAMILY AND THAT IS IT. THAT CREATES A LITTLE BIT OF A PROBLEM FROM A ZONING PERSPECTIVE BECAUSE THE ICE RINK WAS CONSIDERED AN ACCESSORY USED WHEN IT WAS PART OF THE ESTATE PROPERTY. FORTUNATELY, UNDER THE UDL, THE ICE RINK IS CONSIDERED A PRIVATE , RECREATIONAL FACILITY, WHICH IS PERMITTED UPON THE GRANTING OF A SPECIAL EXCEPTION . WE ARE NOT HERE TRYING TO FORCE A VARIANCE OF USE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. ESSENTIALLY, WHAT WE ARE ASKING FOR IS RECOGNITION OF THE CONTINUED USE OF THE ICE RINK BY THE FAMILY FOR FRIENDS AND FAMILY PURPOSES . WE PUT IN FOR YOUR INFORMATION PACKET, A COMMITMENT THAT HAS BEEN REVIEWED AND APPROVED BY YOUR STAFF, WE ARE GRATEFUL FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO WORK WITH THEM. THE OTHER COMPONENT OF THIS MATTER RELATES TO THE SITE PLAN. AND , IF YOU CAN SEE HERE, THIS IS A PROPOSED NEW DRIVEWAY THAT WILL ACCESS THE PARCEL THAT IS OWNED BY THE APPLICANT . BEFORE, THE DRIVEWAY -- IT WAS A SHARED DRIVEWAY SITUATION. THEY CAME IN OFF OF 1/16 A LITTLE BIT TO THE WEST. BECAUSE THIS PROPERTY IS OWNED BY AN UNRELATED THIRD PARTY, PRIVACY IS IMPORTANT AND WHAT IS HAPPENING IS, THE NEW DRIVEWAY IS PROPOSED HERE, A DRIVEWAY PERMIT HAS BEEN REVIEWED AND ISSUED BY DEPARTMENT OF ENGINEERING. THE OTHER COMPONENT THAT GOES ALONG WITH THAT, THERE WAS A SERIES OF PRIVACY WALLS THAT WILL BE EXTENDED ALONG THE SHARED PROPERTY LINE WITH THE FORMER PROPERTY TO THE WEST. IN ESSENCE, THE ONLY THING THAT IS REALLY CHANGING IS THE ADDITION OF THE WALL TO THE WEST, AND THIS DRIVEWAY. RAMON STRADER , I THINK IT WAS A DRIVE-BY, NOT IMMEDIATE NEIGHBOR, HAD WRITTEN AN EMAIL INTO THE DEPARTMENT AND [00:50:02] WAS CONCERNED ABOUT HAVING AN OPEN VIEW FROM 116 TO THE ICE RINK WHICH HAD PREVIOUSLY BEEN WALLED OFF. THIS IS THE SCHEME THAT WILL FOLLOW, THIS WILL BE COMPLETELY SCREENED AS IT IS TODAY, THIS IS JUST A DATE , SOLID DATE THAT WILL ALLOW THE DRIVEWAY FROM 116 TO GO DIRECTLY INTO THE ICE RINK, A SOLID DATE, THERE WILL BE APPROPRIATE SCREENING FROM 116TH STREET . THIS DRIVEWAY DID ALTER THE EXISTING CONDITIONS OF THE PROPERTY. AND HAS TRIGGERED A VARIANCE OF LOT COVERAGE . AGAIN, WHEN THE ICE RINK WAS BUILT, PARKING SPACES AND OTHER HARD SURFACES WERE IMPLEMENTED AS PART OF A MUCH LARGER ESTATE, NO LOT COVERAGE ISSUE , BECAUSE IT WAS NOW SEVERED, AND ON SEPARATELY AND MADE 1.075 ACRES , THIS LITTLE DRIVEWAY PIECE, IS ADDITIONAL HARD SURFACE , AFTER TALKING WITH STAFF, WE HAVE ASKED FOR A LOT COVERAGE VARIANCE. WHEN YOU REALLY CONSIDER THE EFFECTS OF THAT, THE REST OF THE PROPERTY, EVEN WHEN IS ON SEPARATELY, STILL LARGELY OPEN . THERE IS NO DRAINAGE ISSUES, EITHER THAT WHAT HAS BEEN ASKED BY DEPARTMENT OF ENGINEERING, WHICH THEY CAN SPEAK TO IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS. THAT LEADS US TO THE LAST COMMENTS WE WOULD LIKE TO MAKE. WE ARE OBVIOUSLY CONCERNED OUR NEXT-DOOR NEIGHBOR, MR. MORGAN , I CANNOT SPEAK FOR HIM , HE IS HERE THIS EVENING AND HAS WRITTEN A COUPLE OF LETTERS. WE DO NOT EXPECT YOU TO BE A REFEREE BETWEEN NEXT-DOOR NEIGHBORS, OUR CONTENTION , WE WILL LEAVE IT AT THIS AND RESERVE THE REST FOR REBUTTAL, WE DO NOT DRAIN ONTO HIS PROPERTY. MR. HAAS CAN TESTIFY TO THAT AND ANSWER QUESTIONS FOR THE BOARD. I THINK THAT IS LARGELY HIS CONTENTION, TREE TRIMMING FROM YEARS AGO THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ACTIVITIES TAKING PLACE. WE ARE GRATEFUL FOR THE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS FOR APPROVAL FOR THE SPECIAL USE AND THE VARIANCE, WE HAVE TENDERED FINDINGS OF FACT FOR YOU TO CONSIDER AND WE HOPE THAT YOU CAN SEE YOUR WAY TO ADOPT THEM BOTH. WITH THAT, WE ARE HERE COLLECTIVELY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE . THANK YOU SO MUCH. >> DO WE HAVE ANYBODY TO SPEAK IN SUPPORT OF THIS PETITION? HOW ABOUT ANYONE TO SPEAK IN OPPOSITION? JUST ONE BACK OKAY. COME ON UP. >> I AM THE NEXT-DOOR NEIGHBOR . >> WE WILL TO UP TO FIVE MINUTES. >> I AM THE NEXT-DOOR NEIGHBOR . THE BUILDING CONSTRUCTED SEVEN YEARS AGO, THERE WAS NO ZONING REQUIRED, CONSTRUCTED BASED ON THE SIZE AND USE OF THE PROPERTY ITSELF. WHEN IT WAS CONSTRUCTED, I FOUND OUT THAT THE CONSTRUCTION GOING IN. THE BUILDING IS SET LESS THAN 10 FEET OFF MY PROPERTY. IT COVERS 1.073 ACRES. THE DRAINAGE IS SET SO THE ROOF GOES DIRECTLY OUT OF MY PROPERTY, LITTLE STONE WHATEVER, THE DIRECTLY ON MY PROPERTY IT HAS CREATED A SWAMP. THERE IS A HUGE SWAMPY SECTION IN THIS AREA THAT IS CREATED BY AN UNDERGROUND PIPE WHICH IS CREATED A STREAM WHICH WILL HAVE PICTURES WHEN WE DISCOVER THE SITUATION. THIS YEAR. HE WAS RIGHT, NOTHING HAS CHANGED. EXCEPT FOR THE FACT IT WAS 13 ACRES, NOW, I DO NOT KNOW THE SIZE, LESS THAN 1.5 ACRES, YOU HAVE INDUSTRIAL BUILDING IN YOUR BACKYARD. I DO NOT KNOW, DO YOU WANT AN ICE RINK IN YOUR BACKYARD IN A RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITY? THE OTHER PROBLEM I [00:55:03] SEE HAPPENING, I TOOK A VIDEO OF JUST GOING HOME, ON 116TH STREET, THE TRAFFIC FLOW ALONE IS INCREDIBLE. EACH HOCKEY TEAM REQUIRES 15 PLAYERS . THE PARKING ALONE , 30 CARS IF YOU HAVE TWO TEAMS SCRIMMAGING. I DO NOT SEE 30 PARKING SPOTS. I DO NOT KNOW HOW CARMEL CAN ALLOW A STRUCTURE , A COMMERCIAL STRUCTURE, IN A RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITY, OF THIS SIZE AND MAGNITUDE. THEY CLAIM THAT THIS SWAMP THAT HAS BEEN CREATED IN MY ART , THAT DID NOT EXIST SEVEN YEARS AGO, I HAVE PICTURES WHERE HE DID NOT HAPPEN, THAT IS EXISTING NOW, IS NOT THEIRS. THEY DID NOT CREATE IT. MAYBE THE ARE CORRECT BUT WE NEED A WATER DRAINAGE SURVEY BEFORE ANYTHING IS DONE. I WAS TOLD BY THE CITY CARMEL THAT THE WATER WILL DRAIN FROM THE BUILDING INTO AN AREA AND DRAIN INTO THE CREEK . THAT GOES THROUGH MY PROPERTY. THAT IS NOT WHAT IS HAPPENING THE DRAINAGE GOES DIRECTLY INTO MY PROPERTY. FROM THE BUILDING PERMIT THE SETBACK AND THE SIZE OF THE BUILDING IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, GOODNESS GRACIOUS, IT DOES NOT BELONG IN CARMEL . I DO NOT THINK YOU HAVE EVER DONE ANYTHING LIKE THIS BEFORE. IT WAS DONE WITHOUT HAVING TO GO TO THE ZONING BOARD. OVER THE COURSE OF TIME, 15 FEET INTO MY PROPERTY , CLEAR-CUT TREES , THE PREVIOUS OWNER , CLEAR-CUT TREES, I WAS FURIOUS ABOUT IT. TRY TO RESOLVE THE ISSUE AND WE CAME TO SOME TYPE OF RESOLUTION. I WAS TOLD AFTER THE CONSTRUCTION FINISHED OF THE BUILDING, THE PROPERTY LINE IS TWO INCHES OVER ONTO MY PROPERTY, OKAY? IT HAS BEEN THERE FOR A LONG TIME. WHEN I CAME TO THE CONCLUSION INAUDIBLE ] I ASKED FOR THE PROPERTY TO BE MOVED OR PAID FOR, I HAVE BEEN PAYING TAXES FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS. I HAVE TRIED TO BE A GOOD NEIGHBOR AND REACH OUT TO AJ AND ASKED, I WANT TO ADDRESS THESE ISSUES,I WANT TO BE A GOOD NEIGHBOR. MS. FOYT TOLD ME, I AIN'T PAYING YOU A DIME. I DID NOT ASK YOU FOR ANY MONEY, I WANT THESE ISSUES CORRECTED, I WANT DRAINAGE CORRECTED, I WANT MY PROPERTY BACK THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE. I FEEL A HUGE INJUSTICE HAS GONE ON FOR SEVEN YEARS . AND FOR THIS BOARD TO CONTINUE ON AND ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN, IS NOT WHAT CARMEL IS ALL ABOUT . I HAVE A RIGHT TO PROTECTION OF MY PROPERTY JUST AS THEY HAVE A PREDICTION TO THEIR PROPERTY. BROKEN PROMISES, YES, WE WILL DO THIS AND THAT, UNTIL THOSE THINGS ARE TAKEN CARE OF, THEY HAVE NEVER FINISHED WHAT THE POLICY SAID THEY WOULD DO . THEY TOLD YOU EVERYTHING WAS CORRECTED , I DO NOT FIND THAT OUT BECAUSE I DID NOT TRY TO COME HERE, I TRY TO RESOLVE IT WITH THEM BUT AM STANDING IN FRONT OF YOU. ALSO THE RULES ACCORDING TO CARMEL, HOW WOULD YOU LIKE A 1.7 ACRE ICE RINK IN YOUR BACKYARD? WITH ALL THE DRAINAGE ? >> THANK YOU. >> PETITIONER , YOU HAVE FIVE MINUTES FOR A RESPONSE. >> THANK YOU. I WILL PULL THIS UP AGAIN. THE HOME THAT IS SIGNIFICANTLY FURTHER TO THE EAST THAN THE ICE RINK PROPERTY . WE ARE NOT EXPANDING THE ICE RINK, IT IS NOT CHANGING IN SQUARE FOOTAGE , THE ONLY CHANGE OF THE PROPERTY IS THE DRIVEWAY FROM 116 INTO THE NEWLY CREATIVE PARCEL , NOTHING ELSE HAS CHANGED . YOU CAN SEE THERE WAS A LARGE WOODED AREA THAT IS IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT TO THE ICE RINK. WE ARE NOT CHANGING THAT AT ALL . IT IS INTERESTING THAT HE , HE HAS EVERY RIGHT TO SAY THAT THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING, HE CAN SAY WHATEVER HE WANTS, HOWEVER, HE IS BRINGING UP INFORMATION AND GRIEVANCES THAT OCCURRED LONG BEFORE THE APPLICANT'S OWNERSHIP WHICH COMMENCED ON SEPTEMBER 25TH OF THIS YEAR , IF HE IS TALKING ABOUT TREE TRIMMING THAT TOOK PLACE YEARS AGO, AND RESOLUTION, IT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN WITH THE APPLICANT. THE APPLICANT AND HIM [01:00:04] DID MEET LAST WEEK ON SITE, THEY WERE NOT ABLE TO RESOLVE THE ISSUES. VIDEOS WERE SENT IN, BOTH SIDES , WE SENT A VIDEO IN THAT TOOK A CAMERA THROUGH THE EXISTING DRAINPIPES, THAT SHOWED THEY WERE CLEAR , NOT CLOGGED OR LEAKING. I WILL HAVE HIM SAY A FEW WORDS ABOUT THE DRAINAGE SCHEME BECAUSE BECAUSE THAT IS A LEGITIMATE ISSUE HE HAS , TO THE CREDIT OF STAFF, THEY DID SEND THE CITY CARMEL REPRESENTATIVE TO INVESTIGATE THE DRAINAGE SITUATION, I DO NOT THINK THE REPORT HAS BEEN DONE BUT MR. HAAS DOES HAVE HISTORY WITH THE PROPERTY AS WELL AS THE PARKING LOT HAS BEEN HERE SINCE 2000. THIS HAS BEEN IN EXISTENCE SINCE 2000. THERE IS A BEEHIVE HERE, HERE AND HERE. THERE IS A LARGE PIPE THAT RUNS DOWN THE LENGTH OF THE PROPERTY, THE EAST SIDE AND EXITS HERE, EXITS INTO THE CREEK HERE. THAT PIPE HAS BEEN THERE FOR 25 YEARS. WE DIDN'T MANIPULATE THE PIPE. WE EHAVE NOTHING TO WITH THE PIPE. WE CAMERAS THE PIPE. IT IS IN COMPLETE MAINTENANCE AND FUNCTION. THERE ARE NO OTHER OUTLETS FROM THE POIP THAT GO ONTO THE OPPOSING PROPERTY TO THE EAST. AND THE VIDEO SHOWS ALL THAT. SO THAT , TO THE AREA OF DRAINAGE, THERE ARE A COUPLE OF GUTTERS BACK HERE THAT HAVE BLACK CORRUGATED DOWN SPOUT TILE THAT DRAIN INTO A ROCK AREA. TO MR. CORRIGAN'S TESTIMONY THAT THIS HAS BECOME A SWAMP HERE, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN WET. THERE'S A CREEK RUNNING THROUGH IT. THIS IS A NATURALLY -- IT EVEN SAYS ON THE SURVEY IF YOU CAN PULL IT UP, THAT IT IS A DRAINAGE AREA. SO IT DRAINS FROM THE AREA ACROSS THE STREET OVER HERE THROUGH HERE AND ON THROUGH HIS PROPERTY. TO SAY THAT THAT'S CAUSED BY THIS BUILDING HERE? IS JUST NOT FACT. THE FACTS ARE THAT THERE IS A PIPE, THERE IS PROPER DRAINAGE AND IT WORKS. >> THANK YOU. >> JUST TWO FINAL POINTS. AGAIN, WE PUT IN A COMMITMENT SAYING THIS IS PRIVATE, FAMILY, FRIENDS USE. THERE ARE NOT HOCKEY SCRIMMAGES WITH 30 KIDS. THE USE ISN'T CHANGING. THERE HAVE BEEN MS. VOIT'S CHILDREN, THEIR FRIENDS WHO HAVE BEEN USING IT FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS. THAT'S GOING TO STAY THE EXACT SAME. AND THE TRAFFIC PATTERN IS NOT CHANGING ON 116. THE ONLY THING THAT'S CHANGING IS A DRIVEWAY FOR WHICH THERE IS A PERMIT THAT HAS BEEN ISSUED AND AGAIN, WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND SEEK YOUR APPROVAL FOR THE SPECIAL USE AND VARIANCE, THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. WE WILL GO TO THE CITY REPORT NEXT, PLEASE? >> THANK YOU. THE PETITIONER IS REQUESTING SPECIAL USE APPROVAL FOR PRIVATE RECREATIONAL FACILITY AS WELL AS A LOT COVERAGE VARIANCE. THE INDOOR PRIVATE ICE RINK FACILITY EXISTS TODAY. IT HAS BEEN AROUND I THINK SINCE 2018. THE ZONING ORDINANCE DOES STATE THAT SPECIAL USES SHALL GENERALLY BE CONSIDERED FAVORABLY BY THE BOARD. THIS ICE RINK WILL BE FOR PRIVATE USE ONLY AS THE PETITIONER STATED. PROPOSED COMMITMENTS ARE IN YOUR INFOPACKET. A MASONRY WALL WILL SEPARATE THIS ICE RINK PROPERTY FROM THE WEST PROPERTY. I CAN CONFIRM THAT THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT DID APPROVE THE NEW CURB CUT AND DRIVEWAY TO ACCESS THIS BUILDING. APPROXIMATELY 14 TO 15 PARKING SPACES ARE PROPOSED WITH THE REVISED SITE PLAN LAYOUT. ALSO, I THINK PLANNING STAFF HAS ONE CONCERN THAT THE PETITIONER JUST TOUCHED ON, IF THERE ARE GOING TO BE ANY [01:05:05] CHILDREN'S HOCKEY GAMES, LIKE SCRIMMAGES X THEN WOULD THERE BE ENOUGH PARKING FOR THAT MANY PEOPLE, 15 TIMES TWO, 030 PEOPLE. ALSO GOING BACK TO THE DRAINAGE CONCERN, THE CARMEL ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT DID PERFORM A SITE VISIT ON NOVEMBER 19 OF THIS YEAR. THEY ARE STILL DISCUSSING THE RESULTS OF THAT SITE VISIT. SO WITH ALL THAT BEING SAID, PLANNING STUFF DOES RECOMMEND POSITIVE CONSIDERATION OF THIS SPECIAL USE AND VARIANCE REQUEST WITH THE CONDITION OF THE PETITIONER ADDRESSING ALL OF THE REMAINING COMMENTS IN PROJECT DOCKS AND PROVIDING STAFF WITH A RECORDED COPY OF THE COMMITMENTS WITHIN 30 DAYS AND ALSO THE ADOPTION OF THE FINDING OF FACTS. THANK YOU. >> WHO IS UP FIRST? >> I HAVE A QUESTION TO THE PETITIONER AND A QUESTION FOR THE NEIGHBOR. MAY I ASK THE NEIGHBOR A QUESTION FIRST? >> COME UP TO THE PODIUM PLEASE. >> MY QUESTION IS THIS SWAMP THAT YOU CALL SWAMP JUST OCCURRED OR HAS IT BEEN. >> IT JUST OCCURRED SINCE I CHECKED IT. THE REASON I CHECKED IT IS BECAUSE OF THE GOLF COURSE -- >> WAS IT THERE TWO YEARS AGO, THREE YEARS AGO? >> THE REALITY IS THERE IS NOT A SWAMP EXCEPT AN AREA THAT COMES OFF THE WALL ON WHICH I HAD THE THING. FROM THE WALL OF THE BUILDING DIRECT LETO MY FEET, IT IS LESS THAN 12 FEET DREK TALLY OFF, A SWAMP RIGHT THERE. IT IS NOT THE REST OF THE PROPERTY. >> MY QUESTION IS HOW HAS THIS PETITION CHANGED THE FLOW OF THE WATER? >> A LOT BECAUSE THE WATER IS COMING DIRECTLY IN TO CREATE A NEW STREAM. I SENT YOU A VIDEO OF THAT WHICH CREATED A NEW STREAM INTO THE CREEK. >> I DID NOT DO THAT BEFORE? >> NO. >> WHY? >> I DON'T KNOW. THEY STARTED DOING -- THAT'S THE WHOLE IDEA WHERE IS THIS WATER COMING FROM? I BELIEVE IT NEEDS TO BE EXAMINED BEFORE WE MOVE FORWARD. IF THEY DO, WE NEED TO FIND OUT HOW IT IS CREATED AND WHY IT IS COMING FROM THERE. THIS BUILDING IS ONLY 8 FEET OFF MY LAND AND THE WATER HAS TO GO SOMEWHERE. AND IT LOOKS LIKE THERE WAS A HOLE INTO THE PROPERTY TO BE CREATED. IT ONLY STARTS 12 FEET BACK AND GOES ONE DIRECTION. >> THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. >> WOULD YOU PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION THAT HE ASKED, THOUGH, WHEN DID YOU FIRST NOTICE THIS? >> I NOTICED IN THE SUMMER WHEN I WAS TRYING TO EXPLAIN, WHEN THEY FIXED THE GOLF COURSE. >> WHICH SUMMER. >> THIS SUMMER. >> OKAY. THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO KNOW. >> DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE PETITIONER AS WELL? >> YEAH, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE PETITIONER. I'M READING FROM THE DEPARTMENT'S REPORT T. YOU HAVE PROBABLY SEEN THIS. THERE ARE SOME FINAL COMMENTS. ONE OF THEM WAS THE PROPOSED COMMITMENTS YOU HAVE MADE THAT YOU WILL LIVE BY. ALSO YOU ARE WORKING ON ADDRESSING ALL REMAINING KECKNICCAL REVIEW MATTERS AND PLANNING STAFF ASKED THAT THOSE BE ADDRESSED AS PART OF THE PETITION'S APPROVAL IF APPROVED. MY QUESTION REALLY COMES TO THAT LAST POINT. IF THIS PETITION IS APPROVED, THIS MATTER OF STORMWATER DRAINAGE HAS RECENTLY ARRIVED AT THE OFFICE AND THE DEPARTMENT ACTUALLY HAD VERY LITTLE TIME TO LOOK INTO IT. BUT YET, THE DEPARTMENT PERFORMED A SITE VISIT AND WILL TAKE FURTHER ACTION. MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, IF WE APPROVE THIS PETITION, ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT TELLING YOU WHAT TO DO NEXT? >> TO CORRECT ANY STORMWATER PROBLEM? >> YES. >> YES. , ABSOLUTELY. >> BECAUSE THAT COULD BE A TALL ORDER. >> IT COULD BE. WE -- MR. HAS HAS HAD A NUMBER YEARS OF EXPERIENCE WITH THE PROPERTY AND IS PARTICULAR AND SHARED WITH YOU THE DRAINAGE PLAN. THAT REALLY HAVEN'T CHANGED SINCE 2018. SO IF THE DEPARTMENT OF ENGINEERING FINDS SOMETHING AND THERE IS SOMETHING WHETHER IT IS A BROKEN TILE OR SOMETHING THAT IS NOT GETTING CAPTURED, WE WILL FIX IT. WE HAVE TO. >> AND JUST WANT TO HEAR YOU ARE COMMITTED TO WHATEVER THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT DECIDES TO DO. >> YES, THANK YOU SO MUCH. >> . >> MADAM PRESIDENT? A COUPLE OF ISSUES. ONE I WILL HIT THE DRAINAGE FIRST. IN 18 YEARS SERVING ON LAND COMMISSION, CITY [01:10:02] COUNCIL, CARMEL REBUILD KFLT, ONE THING I ALWAYS REALIZE IS EVEN IF WE IMPROVE SOMETHING, ENGINEERING HAD THE FINAL SAY. THEY COULD KILL ANY APPROVAL WE DID IF IT DIDN'T MEET DRAINAGE. THEY HAD THE FINAL SAY ON THAT, CORRECT? SO DRAINAGE IS NOT AN ISSUE. IF THERE IS A DRAINAGE ISSUE, I'M ARGUING BUT THAT IS BETWEEN YOU AND ENGINEERING AND THE PETITIONER AND MIGHT BE A CIVILESHUE. IT REALLY HAS NO BEARING ON WHAT WE ARE RULING ON TONIGHT. WE ARE NOT CHANGING ANYTHING IN THE DRAINAGE. ENGINEERING, IF THEY FEEL THAT SOMETHING IS HAPPENING HERE THAT WILL NOT WORK, IT WILL STOP WE SAY YES OR NO. I MEAN THEY HAVE THE FINAL SAY TO STOP ANYTHING IF IT DOESN'T MEET THE DRAINAGE. THE HOCKEY THING GOT ANSWERED SO I'M NOT GOING TO ASK THAT QUESTION. AND WHEN THEY GOT A CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY, WAS IT 2018? ENGINEERING APPROVED THE DRAINAGE AT THAT TIME. SO THAT MEANT IT WENT THROUGH THE CRITERIA THAT THEY USE TO APPROVE DRAINAGE. SO AGAIN, THAT REALLY DOESN'T APPLY TO WHAT WE ARE DOING TONIGHT. MY LAST THOUGHT WAS I SIMPPATHIZE WITH YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE A NEIGHBOR BUT WE CAN'T REALLY, AS THE PETITIONER SAID, WE CAN'T LOOK AT THIS AS AN ACRE AND HOWEVER MANY PERCENT. IT'S THERE. WE ARE NOT GOING TO TEAR IT DOWN. IT'S GOING TO BE USED FOR THE SAME PURPOSE IT WAS USED BEFORE, IT'S JUST OWNED ON A DIFFERENT PIECE OF PROPERTY ON ITS OWN INSTEAD OF WITH THE ESTATE. SO I'M IN SUPPORT OF IT. IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE OUTSIDE OF THAT, IT WOULD BE WITH ENGINEERING OR A CIVIL ISSUE. THANK YOU. >> I THINK YOU SAID THE ENGINEERING COMMENTS PRETTY WELL. I'M NOT AN ENGINEER SO I ALWAYS DEFER TO THE CITY ENGINEERS. I KNOW YOU SAID THE DEPARTMENT'S REPORT WAS RECOMMEND THIS CONTINGENT UPON ALL COMMENTS, IS ENGINEERING ONE OF THE COMMENTS OUTSTANDING? >> YES. >> SO THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT IS STILL GOING TO FOLLOW UP AND CONTINUE ON THIS. THAT ISSUE IS NOT BEING DROPPED. SO TO SPEAK, REGARDLESS OF OUR ACTION UP HERE. IT SOUNDS LIKE ENGINEERING IS STILL LOOKING AT THAT. THIS PROPERTY, YOU KNOW, IT SITS UP PRETTY HIGH IN COMPARISON TO WHERE YOUR PROPERT IS PRETTY LOW. I'M NOT ENGINEERING BUT I CAN SEE THE ENGINEERING IS GOING TO TAKE SOME CREATIVE SKILL I THINK AS FAR AS ENSURING THE RUNOFF, I'VE SEEN ENGINEERING SAY NO, IT CAN BE RESOLVED I ASSUME BUT I WILL DEFER TO ENGINEERING ON THAT. AS FAR AS THE USE, THANK YOU FOR SENDING THE LETTER TODAY. THAT WAS SORT OF THE FINE TUNED PARTICULAR KIND OF COMMITMENT THAT I WANTED TO SEE AS OPPOSED TO GENERALLY SAYING OUR FAMILIES AND GUESTS BECAUSE THAT COULD OPEN UP TO ALL SORTS OF EVENTS. IT IS IN A LETTER. ARE YOU WILLING TO PUT THAT IN MORE FORMAL EQUIPMENT, THAT IT WILL BE JUST FOR PRIVATE USE OR? AND IF YOU CAN COME UP HERE. >> WHAT WE CAN DO IS TAKE THE LETTER THAT MS. VOIT WROTE FRIDAY AND KIND OF BEEF UP THE COMMITMENT THAT WE HAD TENDERED THAT WAS IN YOUR INFOPACKET. THAT'S NOT A PROBLEM. DID YOU WANT TO SAY ANYTHING TO THAT? >> I LOST MY VOICE OVER THE WEEKEND. I AM A HOCKEY MOM. WE WERE IN PITTSBURGH ALL WEEKEND. THAT'S WHY I HAD THE LETTER OF THOUGHT BUT I'M MORE THAN WILLING TO HELP IF IT CUTS DOWN IN STEPS FOR YOU GUYS TO SAY, I HAVE FIVE CHILDREN. MY DAD BUILT THIS RINK OUT OF LOVE FOR OUR CHILDREN. MY OLDEST IS 15 LIVING AWAY AT A PREP SCHOOL IN RHODE ISLAND. SO HE'S A FRESHMAN. HE JUST GOT HOMEALIST NIGHT, SPENDING THE WEEK WITH US. HE HAS TRAINED THERE SINCE MY DAD BUILT THE RINK. TWO OF OUR BOYS TRAIN THERE, TRAVEL HOCKEY EVERY WEEKEND. OUR TWO GIRLS WHO ARE 8 AND 5 FIGURE SKATE. ETC. JUST A PART OF THEIR LIVES AND I WANTED TO MAKE A CORRECTION THAT MY HUSBAND AND I HAD TO PURCHASE THIS RINK. WE WEREN'T JUST GIVEN IT. HE SAID THAT. I HAD TO KEEP THIS. THIS IS FOR MY CHILDREN AND WHO KNOWS, ONE DAY OUR GRANDCHILDREN. I JUST WANT TO SAY IT'S MAINLY FOR THE LOVE OF OUR OWN CHILDREN. WE'RE NOT TRYING TO DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN [01:15:02] WHAT WE HAVE BEEN DOING FOR THE LAST FIVE, SIX YEARS. I ALSO WANT TO SAY THAT NIGEL AND COLLIN ARE INCREDIBLE BUILDER. THAT'S WHY MY DAD USED THEM. THEY BUILT EVERYTHING PRECISELY WITH THE TENSION AND BEAUTIFUL WORK. I TRUST HIM. I WOULD NEVER EXPECT ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE BEST. I KNOW I JUST -- IT'S DISAPPOINTING I GUESS WHEN I WAS TRYING TO MAKE A RESOLUTION AS WELL WITH SOMEBODY BUT WHEN THEY DON'T WANT TO HEAR THE ANSWERS THAT YOU OFFER, I THINK HE HAD SOME PROBLEMS POSSIBLY WITH MY FATHER IN THE PAST BUT AGAIN, I DON'T -- I WAS PROBABLY 15 YEARS OLD. I DON'T KNOW. I'M NOT SURE WHAT THEIR PAST WAS BUT I'M HOPING WE CAN FIND SOME RESOLUTION IF THERE IS APISSUE, OF COURSE WE WOULD BE WILLING -- WE DON'T WANT TO CAUSE ANY TROUBLE. WE ALSO BELONG TO KIRK AND STICK THERE. WE WANT TO BE A GREAT PART. WE LIVE ACROSS THE STREET. WE JUST DRIVE RIGHT OVER. AGAIN, JUST WANTED TO STATE, LONG WINDED THAT THIS IS JUST FOR MY KIDS AND THAT'S BASICALLY IT. >> THANK YOU FOR THAT. AND I THINK THAT'S ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL. I JUST WANT TO CONFIRM THAT WAS USED. I TOO GREW UP IN AN ICE SKATING FAMILY. MY FATHER BUILT ICE RINKS FOR A LIVING. HE TURNED A TENNIS COURT INTO ICE RINK. IT IS GREAT FOR YOUR KIDS. I THINK IT IS ALREADY HERE. YOU ARE NOT ASKING FOR SOMETHING NEW. IT IS AN INTERESTING QUESTION BECAUSE WE HAVE SEEN MORE AND MORE PEOPLE BUILDING. THIS IS THE FIRST ICE RINK BUT WE ARE SEEING PEOPLE PUT A BASEBALL FIELD FOR FAMILY'S USE AND WE ARE SEEING THIS MORE AND MORE IN CARMEL. IN MY MIND, THIS IS ALREADY HERE. IT WAS APPROVED YEARS AGO. THERE ARE NO CHANGES BEING DONE, I THINK FROM MY STANDPOINT THE BIGGEST ISSUE IS MAKING SURE THE USE DOES STAY PRIVATE USE AND FAMILY AND IT DOESN'T BECOME COMMERCIAL USE. >> I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION MADAM PRESIDENT ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS? ARE REE READY? >> YES. >> I MOVE WE APPROVE THIS PETITION. >> CAN I ADD TO THAT? ADDRESSING ALL REMAINING TECHNICAL REVIEW COMMENTS AND PROVIDING RECORDED COPY OF COMMITMENTS WITHIN 30 DAYS AND ADOPTION OF FINDING OF FACT. >> OKAY I AGREE TO THE AMENDMENT SECOND. >> FIRST AND SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? LR. ALL IN FAVOR? >> AYE. >> ANY OPPOSED? ALL RIGHT THIS [H. (V) Cooper Guest House Variances. ] PETITION IS APPROVED. >> THANK YOU. >> OKAY. MOVING ON. COOPER GUEST HOUSE VARIANCES, DOCKETS NUMBER PZ2025-220V AND DOCKET NUMBER PZ202500221V. GO AHEAD. PUSH THE BUTTON? >> I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN SEE THE LAPTOP SCREEN OR NOT. I'M ROB COOPER, FLYING FOR TWO TWO VARIANCES. I'M THE OWNER. I WILL BE THE BUILDER OF WHATEVER IS APPROVED. WE ARE TRYING TO BUILD A 49 BY 99, SO 50 BY 100 GUEST HOUSE. WE HAVE A LARGE LOT, 1.21 ACRES. AND WE'RE GOING TO TURN A PORTION OF IT INTO A SCHOOLING ROOM FOR MY ARTISTIC SON I CAN LEAVE MY COMPUTER SCREEN. YEAH, 50 BY 100. >> I'M SORRY. ARE YOU TRYING TO SHOW -- >> I'LL SHOW YOU IN A SECOND. WAS TRYING TO GIVE YOU AN OVERVIEW FIRST. >> HE CAN PLUG IT IN. >> I THINK THE TWO VARIANCES REQUESTED IS ONE FOR LOT COVERAGE BECAUSE IT IS KIND OF A WEIRD LOT AND THE BUILDING IS KIND OF LARGE. AND BECAUSE MY HOUSE IS RELATIVELY SMALL IN COMPARISON TO THE HOUSES AROUND THERE AND THE SIZES OF THE LOTS PEOPLE HAVE. IT MAKES THE NUMBERS LOOK A LITTLE BIT SKEWED. SO THAT IS FOR THE PROPOSED ACCESSORY STRUCTURE INCREASE IN PERCENTAGE WHICH I BELIEVE IS GIVEN 289% VERSUS WHAT IS ALLOWED OF 75. MY LOT IS KIND OF STRANGE. I WILL SHOW YOU PICTURES IN A MOMENT. THAT'S THAT ONE. THE SETBACK IS BECAUSE WE ARE ON A CORNER LOT. THE SETBACK REQUIREMENTS ARE KIND OF WEIRD. IF I WAS TO SET IT BACK, [01:20:02] IT WOULD BE IN A REALLY WEIRD SPOT. I'M TRYING TO MAKE SURE IT KEEPS HIDDEN WITH THE TREE LINE IN THERE CURRENTLY. AND THAT'S BASICALLY IT. I WILL SHOW YOU WHAT WE GOT HERE. >> SO YOU DO WANT TO PUT SOMETHING ON THE SCREEN? >> YEAH, I THINK I CAN. >> THERE IS A CORD YOU CAN PLUG IT ON THE COMPUTER. I THINK HE'S TRYING TO SHOW IT ON THE CAMERA. >> THAT'S ALL RIGHT. THERE WE GO. SO THAT'S MY LOT, 126TH STREET AND WEST ROAD. IT'S A CORNER LOT. TECHNICICALLY, IF YOU CAN SEE MY CURSOR ON THE SCREEN, MY PROPERTY LINE IS OVER HERE ON THIS DRIVEWAY. BECAUSE THERE IS A ROAD THERE, THE DEED OF ACRES, THE POINTS ON THE MAP, WE ARE PROPOSING TO PUT THE GUEST HOUSE AT THE BACK HERE. YOU CAN SEE FROM MY HOUSE THAT IS CURRENTLY THERE, I HAVE A SMALL GARAGE. IT'S LIKE 16 FOOT WIDE DOOR, 7 FOOT TALL, I HAVE A LARGE PICKUP TRUCK BECAUSE I'M A BUILDER AND A COUPLE OF OTHER CARS. CURRENTLY WE CAN ONLY GET ONE IN THERE WHICH IS MOY WIFE'S. AND IT'S COLD. SO THE GUEST HOUSE HAS 1800 SQUARE FOOT GRAD AREA. SOME OF THAT WILL BE FOR MY SON. HE NEEDS A SPECIAL ENVIRONMENT. HE IS STRUGGLING IN SCHOOL CURRENTLY. WE WILL PROBABLY PULL HIM OUT NEXT YEAR AND DEDICATE AN AREA OVER THERE AWAY FROM ME WORKING IN THE OFFICE IN THE HOUSE AND ALSO THREE DOGS AND A CAT. SO HOPEFULLY WE CAN STICK HIM IN THERE AND GIVE HIM A GOOD EDUCATION. AT THE SAME TIME, I'M OBVIOUSLY FROM KENTUCKY, AND ALL MY FAMILY AND FRIENDS COME TO VISIT QUITE A LOT FROM ACROSS THE POND AND IT WOULD BE REALLY NICE TO STICK THEM THAT IS NOT IN THE HOUSE THREE DOGS AND AN AUTISTIC SON. SO THAT'S IT FOR MY SECTION. I HAVE TOYED WITH A MILLION IDEAS. WE THOUGHT ABOUT MOVING. WE HAVE BEEN THERE FOR TEN YEARS. IT WOULD BE REALLY NICE SEEMING AS I'M A BUILDING TO BE ABLE TO BUILD SOMETHING THAT IS SPECIFICALLY GOOD FOR USE ON OUR PROPERTY. I ALSO OWN THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR, IMMEDIATELY TO THE NORTH WHICH IS A SIMILAR SIZED LOT. SO COMBINING ABOUT 2.5 ACRES. MY BROTHER LIVES NEXT DOOR TO ME. HE JUST HAD A BABY. HE HAS A 7 WEEK OLD AND A 3-YEAR-OLD. SO IT IS NICE TO HAVE MY FAMILY CLOSE BY. OBVIOUSLY, MY DAD AND HIS WIFE COME IN FROM ENGLAND AND IT IS NICE TO HAVE THEM HAVE SOMEWHERE TO STAY. MY BROTHER HAS NO SPACE. I HAVE NO SPACE AND MY HOUSE IS RELATIVELY SMALL. COMPARED TO OTHER HOUSES AROUND THERE. THAT'S REALLY IT, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU. IT'S A SINGLE STORY BUILDING. AND THAT'S IT. THAT'S ALL I GOT. >> THANK YOU. YOU CAN STEP DOWN. >> IS THERE ANYONE HERE TO SPEAK IN SUPPORT OF THIS PETITION? ANYONE HERE TO SPEAK IN OPPOSITION? OKAY. ARE ALL FOUR OF YOU WANTING TO SPEAK? I SAW FOUR HANDS GO UP. OKAY. THREE MINUTES? TWO AND A HALF? I HEAR TWO AND A HALF. WE ARE DOING TWO AND A HALF MINUTES EACH. WE ARE GOING TO DO THREE. HE WAS JUST PLAYING WITH US. GO AHEAD AND MAKE SURE YOU STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD. >> MY NAME IS TERRI MCCONAUGHEY, I'M GETTING OVER A COLD. I LIVE TWO PROPERTIES NORTH OF THE PROPOSED PROJECT. I HAVE TWO CONCERNS ABOUT THIS, FIRST LES THAN TWO WEEKS AGO, I WAS AT A MEETING THAT HIS WIFE SPEARHEADED ABOUT THE VOLUME AND TRAFFIC THROUGH WEST ROAD. NUMEROUS COMPLAINTS HAVE BEEN LODGED. THE MEETING WAS HELD WITH GERALD HALL OR WHATEVER. GERALD WITH CITY ENGINEERING. AND ANITA YOSHII WHO IS OUR REPRESENTATIVE. AS A RESULT OF THIS WE HAVE TEMPORARY SPEED BUMPS IN THE AREA FOR THE TRAFFIC. NOW WE HAVE A PETITION BY THE SAME PEOPLE VIEWING THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THINGS. NOW THEY ARE NOT CONCERNED ABOUT THE TRAFFIC, THEY ARE LOCKING AT INCREASING DENSITY AND INCREASING TRAFFIC. I'M CONCERNED THIS VARIANCE WILL CREATE A PRECEDENT FOR THE REST [01:25:02] OF THE AREA AND EVERYONE CAN HAVE A FAMILY COMPOUND AND WILL INCREASE THE TRAFFIC. AND PREVIOUS COMPLAINTS THAT HAVE BEEN LODGED WITH THE CITY. MY SECOND CONCERN IS DRAINAGE. WHEN IT RAINS HEAVILY, WATER POOLS AT THE INTERSECTION OF THEIR HOUSE. WATER ON THE NORTH SIDE OF IT DRAINS FROM THEIR PROPERTIES DOWN MINE. YOU CAN STAND IN THE MIDDLE OF WEST ROAD AND SEE IT DRAIN DOWN TO A CREEK THAT IS NORTH OF MY PROPERTY. IF IT RAINS ENOUGH, I GET A CREEK ON THE WEST SIDE, I GET A CREEK ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE PROPERTY. ON THE EAST SIDE, I HAVE PUT STONES OUT AROUND MY ROUND ABOUT T TO DIVERT IT WATER. MY SEPTIC SYSTEM IS ALSO DURING THAT CREEK PATH. I HAVE HAD ONE OF MY SEPTIC LIDS LIFT UP. WATER GOING THROUGH MY FRONT YARD, JUST NORMAL RAIN. I HEARD THE WHOLE WATER STUDY. I TALKED AND EMAILED WITH ELEANOR PRESCOTT. THAT IS NOT A THOROUGH DRAINAGE THING. WE HAVE HAD 6 INCHES LESS NORMAL WATER THIS YEAR. WHAT IF WE HAVE 6 INCHES MORE THAN NORMAL? IT DRAINS DOWN MY PROPERTY. MY HOUSE IS A SPLIT LEVEL HOUSE WITH WELL AND SEPTIC. HALF OF THE HOUSE IS UNDER GROUND. THIS HOUSE WILL BE NEW AND SITS RIGHT WHERE THE WATER POOLS BETWEEN JANINE'S PROPERTY AND COOPER'S PROPERTY. WHERE DOES THE WATER GO? DOES IT DRAIN ACROSS MY PROPERTY? EVERYTHING DRAINS ACROSS MY PROPERTY TO THIS CREEK. I AM VERY CONCERNED ABOUT MY PROPERTY DAMAGE AND ABOUT MY PROPERTY VALUE. MY HOUSE IS HALF THE SIZE OF THE HOUSE THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. SO THEY HAVE FOUR BEDROOMS AND THREE PEOPLE LIVING IN IT. THAT'S ALL I GOT. >> MY NAME IS PHIL BOWER. I LIVE THREE PROPERTIES TO THE NORTH OF THE PETITION'S PROPERTY. I HAVE BEEN THERE 38 YEARS. THE CHARACTER OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, WEST CARMEL, WE HAVE LARGER LOTS, WE HAVE HOMES. WE HAVE LOW-DENSITY. IT'S WHAT WE LIKE. WE WERE ATTRACTED TO THE AREA BECAUSE OF IT. IT ENHANCES OUR PROPERTY VALUES BECAUSE OF THE LOW-DENSITY. I KNOW HE IS PERMITTED TO BUILD SOMETHING ON THE PROPERTY THAT IS PERMITABLE BUT THE VARIANCE HE IS REQUESTING AND THE OPERATIVE TERM IS GUEST HOUSE. SO THE DENSITY OF HOUSES IN THE AREA, I'M WORRIED THAT PRECEDENCE IS BEING SET CAN OTHER PROPERTY OWNERS GO AHEAD AND PUT UP GUESTHOUSES? ONCE THEY ARE THERE, WHAT HAPPENS TO THEM WHEN PROPERTY IS SOLD DOWN THE ROAD, WHEN IN-LAWS PASS, WHEN PARENTS PASS, THINGS LIKE THAT? WILL THEY BECOME VRBOS. I DON'T KNOW WANT THAT TO HAPPEN TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. DENSITY, PRECEDENT, AND YEAH, THE SIZE OF VARIANCE IS KIND OF MY MAIN CONCERNS. >> THANK YOU. >> HI, I'M CINDY BOWER. I LIVE WITH PHIL. MY CONCERN IS THAT ROB IS A VERY GOOD BUILDER. HIS COMPANY IS CALLED THE SPOKE. HE DOES EXCELLENT QUALITY AND HE DOES GREAT WORK. THE PROJECT HE IS TALKING ABOUT LOOKS LIKE A CASITA OR YOU CAN CALL THEM BOXABLES. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE LOT AND YOU PUT A MASSIVE LONG HOUSE ON THERE, THAT IS GOING TO BE THE FIRST THING YOU SEE. WE LIVED THERE 38 YEARS. WE HAVE TWO ACRES. MOST OF US HERE ARE ON THE OLDER HOMES. BUT WHEN WE MOVED OUT THERE CARMEL SAID NO MORE DEVELOPMENT, NO MORE BUILDING UNLESS YOU BUY 5 ACRES OR IF YOU PUT A DEVELOPMENT IN. THUS THAT WAS A CAN'T TRY ROAD. WE HAVE A 50-YEAR-OLD HOUSE. ACROSS FROM US, THEY PUT A DEVELOPMENT. MR. CENT LIVES BACK THERE. DOWN THE ROAD BOTHWAYS THERE ARE MASSIVE HOMES, SOME ON 20, SOME ON 10 AND MANY ON 5. SO THOSE PEOPLE COULD DECIDE HECK, IF WE CAN PUT ANOTHER BUILDING ON 1 .2 ACRE, WHY NOT PUT A COUPLE MORE BUILDINGS ON OUR OWN AND THEY MIGHT GET TO IT IF THEY ARE SPECIAL USE LISTENING TO THAT PREVIOUS SITUATION WITH THEURSEIES. I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT. I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THERE IS NO PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY THAT WOULD [01:30:01] ALLOW HIM NOT TO BUILD ON. HE COULD BUILD ON A BIGGER GARAGE, A NICE BIG WING. HE IS A VERY TALENTED BUILDER. HIS CHILD MAY HAVE SPECIAL NEEDS AND I UNDERSTAND THAT BECAUSE I HAVE A GRAND NEPHEW WITH THAT AND WE WILL BE THERE TO SUPPORT THAT AND WANT TO ENCOURAGE THAT. THEY COULD DECIDE TO PUT THE DOGS OUT SOMEWHERE ELSE ALSO. THERE ARE TWO PROPOSALS. THIS AND THE ONE NEXT DOOR HE WOULD BE BUILDING. I CONSIDER THOSE NOT TO BE IN LINE WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AS MENTIONED THERE ARE STILL NO SIDEWALKS ON THE ROAD. WE CAN'T GET WELL WATER OUT THERE. THE HOUSE THAT HE LIVES IN WAS BUILT AFTER THE HOUSE PRIOR TO IT BURNT TO THE GROUND. ANOTHER GROUND NORTH BURNT TO THE GROUND. WE HAVE NONE OF THE COMMODITIES THAT GO WITH CARMEL BUT WE DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT BECAUSE WE HAVE OUR WATER AND HAVE THE SEWER. WE HAVE TO WALK OFF THE ROADS NOW BECAUSE THERE IS TOO MUCH TRAFFIC. WE TREATED IT LIKE A COUNTRY ROAD. WE LIKED THAT. I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH WHAT IT'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE. I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH HIM NEEDING TO HAVE MORE ROOM. I WOULD RATHER SEE HIM BUILD ON SOMETHING THAT IS BEAUTIFUL LIKE HE KNOWS HOW TO BUILD VERSUS A LONG NARROW PREFAB LOOKING BIDDING. THANK YOU. >> MY NAME IS NICOLAS MILLER. THE HOUSE HE IS BUILDING SEEMSWAY OVER SIZED FOR THE PROPERTY LINE. IT IS A LOW LYING AREA AND IT DRAINS BOTH DIRECTIONS, ONE TOWARDS MY PROPERTY AND ONE TOWARDS THE BALLARD . I HAVE CONCERN OF THE SIZE AND THE DRAINAGE. HOW THEY CAN GET THE SEPTIC IN THERE, NO WAY. AND THERE IS A PARSELL NEXT TO HIM AND WHAT ARE WE SETTING THE PRECEDENT, EVERYONE BUILDING AN ADDITIONAL HOUSE ON THE LOT? IT WAS NEVER INTENDED THAT WAY. IT WILL BE LARGE PARCELS WITH THE OWN SEPTIC FIELD AND A LARGE HOUSE. NOW THEY ARE CHANGING IT SO THEY CAN PUT ALL OF THESE HOUSES IN. TRAFFIC IS TERRIBLE NOW. IT SEEMS LIKE WE ARE GOING THE WRONG WAY WITH THIS. THOSE ARE MY CONCERNS. >> THANK YOU. THE CITY REPORT, PLEASE? SORRY, YES. WOULDIA LIKE TO RESPOND, YOU HAVE 5 MINUTES. >> FIRST OF ALL, DRAINAGE WOULD BE A COMPREHENSIVE DRAINAGE PLAN WHICH I THINK STORMWATER HAS BEEN IN CONTACT TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THAT. WITH REGARDS TO SIZE, I THINK I COULD GO TO -- I COULD HAVE ASKED FOR A VARIANCE OF 20 BY 30 FOOT EXTERIOR BUILDING. BECAUSE I OWN THE LOT NEXT DOOR, I THINK TERRI'S MAIN CONCERN IS PROBABLY HER VIEW AND THE WATER RUNOFF BUT I COULD PUT A 30 BY 20 BUILDING ON BOTH LOTS THAT I OWN AND BLOCK THE VIEW AND STILL HAVE THE DRAINAGE ISSUE. THE IDEA IS NOT TO ANNOY PEOPLE. THE POINT IS I HAVE SPENT A YEAR TO FIGURE OUT WHERE TO PUT IT SO IT WILL HAVE THE CORRECT DRAINAGE. SO THAT'S THAT PART. WHEN IT COMES TO ADDING ONTO THE HOUSE, I COULD HAVE PUT A BUILDING PERMIT REQUEST TO ADD AN ADDITION TO THE HOUSE AND I COULD HAVE BLOCKED EVERYONE'S VIEW AND DONE IT WITHOUT HAVING TO GO THROUGH THE VARIOUS PROCESS FOR AN ACCESSORY BUILDING AND I COULD HAVE TACKED ON 4,000 SQUARE FEET AND BEEN UNDER THE LOT COVERAGE, BLOCKED EVERYONE'S VIEW, CREATE DRAINAGE ISSUES. I'M NOT TRYING TO CREATE MORE TRAFFIC. THE GUEST HOUSE FOR MY FAMILY, THEY LIVE IN ENGLAND. THEY DON'T DRIVE. IT WOULD BE MY CAR THAT BRINGS THEM TO THE HOUSE. THEY ARE IN THEIR 70S. THEY DON'T WANT TO DRIVE AROUND THE USA. I THINK IT IS RIDICULOUS SAYING THERE WOULD BE MORE TRAFFIC. I THINK TERRI IS IN SUPPORT OF THE SPEED BUMPS FROM WHAT I REMEMBER. SHE SIGNED THE PETITION SAYING SHE WAS IN SUPPORT OF THEM WHICH IS GREAT. I SPOKE TO ENGINEERING. THEY HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE DRIVEWAYS. THEY SAID DRAINAGE IS FINE. WITH REGARDS TO IT LOOKING LIKE A PREFAB HOME, THIS ISN'T COSTING ME 50 GRAND. IT'S A HALF A MILLION DOLLAR BUILD. IT IS QUALITY MATERIALS. IT IS UPSCALE, LARGE GLASS WINDOWS, FULLY FUNCTIONING GARAGE AND EDUCATIONAL AREA FOR MY SON. IT [01:35:02] IS NOT A PREFAB BUILDING. IT IS A SUBSTANTIAL INVESTMENT FOR ME AND MY FAMILY. IT'S HALF A MILLION WE WILL CHUNK OUT TO MAKE IT LOOK NICE. THE OTHER SIDE IS THE PROPER ALIGNMENTS ON THE CORNER. IF I DECIDED, I COULD PUT A ROW OF TREES AROUND ALL TWO AND A HALF ACRES AND MAKE IT VERY PRIVATE LOT, STOP EVERYONE'S VIEWS. BUT I'M NOT TRYING TO DO THAT. I'M TRYING TO MAKE IT SO THIS IS ON A BOUNDARY LINE WITH GREAT VIEWING LINES FOR PEOPLE TO LOOK AT STILL, A VERY TASTEFULLY BUILD HOME/GUESTHOUSE WHICH IS GOING TO BE PRIMARILY USED FOR MY SON'S SCHOOLING AND ME PACKING MY TRUCK IN WHEN IT'S COLD. THE ADDED BONUS OF HAVING SOMEONE FOR MY FAMILY TO STAY IS FINE. SOMEBODY'S STATEMENT OF WE BOUGHT THIS HOUSE 38 YEARS AGO. A LOT CHANGED IN 38 YEARS. NOW WE ARE BUILDING HOUSES ON LOTS THAT HAVE 85% COVERAGE. I THINK THE COVERAGE ISSUE IS NULL AND VOID. BUT IF WE NEED TO GO DOWN THE LINE OF ME ADDING ON WITH 4,000 SQUARE FEET AND DRAINAGE THAT'S WHAT I WILL DO BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE NICE FOR EVERYONE TO HAVE A NICE TASTEFUL BUILDING THAT IS BUILT WELL, WITH ITS OWN DRIVEWAY WHERE MY SON CAN GET HIS EDUCATION IN. I'M KIND OF DISAPPOINTED THAT YOU GUYS ARE AGAINST THIS. IT WAS A PLEASURE HOSTING YOU LAST WEEK AND I WISH YOU HAD RAISED YOUR CONCERNS THERE INSTEAD OF HERE. THAT'S ALL I GOT. >> THANK YOU. >> NOW THE DEPARTMENT REPORT, THANK YOU. >> THE PETITIONER REQUESTS TO BUILD A DETACHED GUESTHOUSE WITH A GARAGE INCLUDED AND A CORNER LOT. GUESTHOUSES ARE AN ALLOWED ACCESSORY USE IF YOU HAVE AT LEAST ONE ACRE OF LAND. THE U.D.O. ALLOWED FOR THAT. THE VARIANCES IN THIS CASE ARE FOR THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE ACCESSORY BUILDING AS WELL AS THE SETBACK. >> SO THE ORDINANCE REQUIRES THAT YOU DO NOT EXCEED 75% OF THE GROUND AREA OF THE PRINCIPAL BUILDING FIRST OF COMBINED SQUARE FOOTAGE OF GARAGES AND ACCESSIBILITY. INSTEAD OF 75%, THEY ARE REQUESTING 364%. THAT'S A BIG JUMP. >> OKAY, 289. THAT IS THE REQUEST FOR THE DIFFERENCE IN PERCENTAGES. ALSO BECAUSE THIS IS ON A SITE THAT IS NOT THREE ACRES OR LARGER, THE ORDINANCE ONLY ALLOWS MAXIMUM 30 BY 40 FOOT AND THIS IS 50 BY 100. ALSO REGARDING SETBACK, IT'S ON A CARNER LOT. ACCESSORY BUILDINGS CANNOT BE PLACED FORWARD OF A PRINCIPAL BUILDING OR HOUSE. IN THIS CASE, IT WOULD BE APPROXIMATELY 60 FEET IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE. BUT WE WERE ABLE TO WORK WITH THE PETITIONER TO GET THE HOUSE 40 FOOT SETBACK WHICH IS THE REQUIRED SETBACK FOR A PRINCIPAL STRUCTURE. THE PETITIONER IS STILL ADDRESSING REMAINING REVIEW COMMENTS AND DOCS. THAT INCLUDES THE COMMENTS FROM THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT. PLANNING STAFF GENERALLY SUPPORTS THE VARIANCES, HOWEVER WE HAVE A SLIGHT CONCERN OF THE LARGE FOOTPRINT. WE WOULD LIKE TO ASK AGAIN THE QUESTION WHY CAN'T THIS BE A TWO STORY TALL GUESTHOUSE WITH A SMALLER FOOTPRINT. BUT OTHER THAN THAT IN GENERAL PLANNING STAFF DOES SUPPORT T THE VARIANCE REQUEST WITH THE CONDITION OF THE PETITIONER ADDRESSING THE REMAINING TECHNICAL REVIEW COMMENTS X THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. >> YES, NOW CELINE? >> WOULD YOU PLEASE COME UP? DOIA OWN THE HOUSE THAT ON THE PROPERTY? >> YEAH. >> WOULD YOU HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHY A GUESTHOUSE WOULD BE THREE TIMES THE SIZE OF URHOME? >> WELL, FIRST OF ALL THE GARAGE IS ABOUT 1800 SQUARE FEET. SO THE LIVABLE AREA OF THE GUESTHOUSE IS ABOUT 1800 SQUARE FEET. SO THE GARAGE IS VERY LARGE AND OF THAT IS ALSO SECTIONED OFF FOR AN EDUCATIONAL AREA. >> I'M SORRY. BUT I GUESS I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT DOES A GUESTHOUSE MEAN? WHY IS IT CALLED A GUESTHOUSE BEING THAT LARGE? >> BECAUSE IT IS WHERE MY GUESTS [01:40:01] ARE GOING TO STAY. AND IT'S GOT THREE BEDROOMS AND A KITCHEN, TWO BATHROOMS. SO IF THIGH ELDERLY PARENTS COME, THEY SLEEP IN A SEPARATE ROOM. AND IF HIGH SON STAYS WITH GRANDPARENTS, WE NEED THREE BEDROOMS. AND THEN THE BATHROOMS. >> WOULDIA PLEASE PUT UP A SITE PLAN AND SO US WHERE THE SEPTIC SYSTEM IS ON THE SITE PLAN? IT'S NOT A VERY BIG LOT. >> I MEAN IT'S BIG ENOUGH. IT IS AN ADVANCED SEPTIC SYSTEM THAT WE ARE LOOKING TO INSTALL, AN AIR PUMP SYSTEM THAT ONLY REQUIRES ONE FEED LINE. I HAVE SUBMITTED THE DOCUMENTS TO CARMEL EARLIER TODAY. IT BASICALLY AERATES THE SEPTIC TANK AND THEN PUSHES IT OUT INTO A SINGLE FEED LINE. SO I DON'T NEED A WHOLE SEPTIC BUILD. IT ONLY HAS TWO BATHROOMS AND THREE BEDROOMS, I CAN DO IT WITH ONE FEEDER WITHIN MY LOT AND BE IN COMPLIANCE. IT WILL ALSO HAVE ITS OWN SEPARATE WELL. >> SO THIS IS JUST A DRAWING I DID. THAT WAS A FUTURE PULL WHICH I MAY PUT THERE BECAUSE IT IS A GUESTHOUSE/POOLHOUSE. THE SEPTIC SYSTEM WILL GO SOMEWHERE HERE WITHIN THIS RANGE. ONLY A SMALL AREA TO PLACE IT IN. WELL WILL COME IN THIS SIDE OF THE PROPERTY. IT HAS TO BE AWAY FROM THE SYSTEM, 50 FEET SEPARATION. MY WELL IS OVER HERE ON TOP OF THE DRIVEWAY SO IT DOESN'T INTERFERE. MY SEPTIC SYSTEM IS IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE WHICH IS FROM 1970. IT IS CONCRETE TANK SO AT SOME POINT I WILL PROBABLY PULL IT OUT AND REPLACE IT AND MAKE IT A SMALL SYSTEM. IFFIA ACTUALLY LOOK AT THE LAYOUT OF THE HOUSE, YOU WILL SEE HERE THAT THIS ENTIRE END SECTION IS GARAGE AND AN EDUCATIONAL AREA FOR MY SON. THEN THIS IS THE GUESTHOUSE SECTION. I SAW SOME COMMENTS EARLY ON ABOUT HAVING TO MAKE IT TWO STORY BUT MY ELDERLY PARENTS DON'T USE STAIRS TOO WELL AND I DON'T WANT TO SPRING THE FOR THE ELEVATOR AND THAT WOULD BLOCK THE VIEW FOR MY NEIGHBORS. I WAS TRYING TO KEEP IT SINGLE STORY. I HAVE SOME PHOTOGRAPHS OF THAT AS WELL WHICH I WILL SHOW YOU. >> WHAT IS IT YOU ARE GOING TO SHOW ME? >> I'M JUST TRYING TO SHOW YOU WHAT PEOPLE SEE. THIS IS TERRI'S HOUSE, SORRY. >> MY NEXT QUESTION IS FOR THE STAFF. I THINK YOU HAD A NUMBER OF RESERVATIONS ABOUT THE PETITIONS. I DARE SAY JUST ABOUT EVERY VARIANCE THEY REQUESTED HAS EXCEEDED BY A MILE AND A HALF OF THE WRITTEN REQUIREMENTS. YET AT THE END YOU STILL RECOMMEND POSITIVE CONSIDERATION. I'M A LITTLE BIT SKEPTICAL THAT IN SPITE OF ALL OF THE RESERVATIONS YOU HAVE, YOU ARE STILL COMMITTED. I'M OPPOSE TO THIS ADDITION BUT GO AHEAD AND RESPOND. >> YES, I THINK PLANNING STAFF DOES HAVE SOME CONCERNS BUT ULTIMATELY WE LEAVE IT UP TO THE BOARD TO MAKE THE FINAL VOTE AND WE JUST PUT OUR RECOMMENDATION IN THE STAFF REPORT. >> THANK YOU. >> CHRISTINE? >> THANK YOU. SO I SHARE THE STAFF'S CONCERN AND MY FELLOW MEMBER'S CONCERN WITH THE SIZE. IT IS SO MUCH BIGGER THAN THE PRINCIPAL BUILDING. YOU KNOW IF YOU LOOK AT U.D.O., SECTION [01:45:04] 50282 IT STATES ANY ACCESSORY BUILDINGS SHALL NOT ALTER OR CHANGE THE PREMISES. THIS IS SO MUCH BIGGER THAN THE MAIN PREMISE, IT CERTAINLY DOESN'T ON THIS DRAWING LOOK LIKE AN A SMALL GUESTHOUSE. DO YOU HAVE ANY MORE DETAILED ARCHITECTURAL DRAWINGS OTHER THAN SKETCHES THAT MIGHT GIVE US A BETTER VIEW OF WHAT THIS WOULD LOOK LIKE? >> YEAH, I DO, YEAH. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THIS IS JUST A MOCK UP OF WHAT I COULD DO IF I WANTED TO ADD ON TO MY HOUSE. I COULD DO THE SAME THING WITHIN THE GUIDELINES AND THE BUILDING PERMIT ABILITIES AND I COULD STICK IT ON THERE AND ADD ANOTHER DRIVEWAY. SO I WAS TRYING TO BE NICE BY MOVING IT TO THE BACK OF THE PROPERTY LINE AND KEEPING IT RELATIVE LEOPEN. OR I CAN STICK IT ON THE FRONT OF MY PROPERTY. I CAN ADD TO THE HOUSE, 4,000 SQUARE FEET AND IT WON'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE. I'M TRYING TO DO IT IN A WAY THAT IS TASTEFUL AND DOESN'T BLOCK EVERYBODY'S VIEWS. AS FAR AS THE WAY IT'S GOING TO LOOK, I WILL PULL THAT UP FOR YOU NOW. YOU'LL HAVE TO GIVE ME A SECOND. >> WHILE YOU ARE LOOKING, A QUESTION FOR STAFF, IF HE WERE UNDER U.D.O. TO BUILD AN ATTACHMENT ARE THERE ARCHITECTURAL STANDARDS THAT HE WOULD HAVE TO COMPLY WITH? IN OTHER WORDS, THEY WOULD HAVE TO MATCH THE STYLE . >> BASICALLY IT WILL LOOK LIKE THAT. WHICH DOESN'T LOOK LIKE A PRETABRICATED BUILDING TO ME. IT IS PRETTY TASTEFUL, PRETTY NICE. IT IS NOT A $50,000 HOUSE. >> THAT LOOKS BETTER THAN THE SKETCHES YOU SUBMITTED. >> THIS IS THE 3D RENDERING. THIS MAY NOT BE BLACK BUT IT IS THE IDEA OF WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO. IT IS A LOT MORE TASTEFUL THAN A PREFAB BUILDING. I DO HAVE SOME STYLE. I WILL LIKE THAT TO BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION. BUT YEAH, IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE A NICE PLACE FOR MY SON TO EDUCATE HIMSELF AND MY FAMILY COME AND VISIT. I COULD TACK IT ON TO THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE AND BLOCK EVERYONE'S VIEW AND STILL GET IT PASSED. I WENT THROUGH THIS WITH THE GENTLEMEN OVER THERE LAST YEAR FOR A VARIANCE WITH THE SHNEYDERS AND THEIR NEIGHBORS WERE ARGUING OVER THE FACT THAT THERE WAS A 10 FOOT WIDE DIFFERENCE IN WIDTH. THEY PROPOSED BUILDING A 40 BY 60 BAFRN WHICH WE BUILT AND THE DISCREPANCY WAS OVER THE 10 FEET, IT WAS PUSHED THROUGH BECAUSE THEY COULD HAVE TURNED THE BARN AROUND AND HAD IT AT 30 FEET. THEY WERE ARGUING OVER A 10 FOOT DIFFERENCE AND IT WAS PUSHED THROUGH ON THE PROPERTY AND THAT WAS 1631 MAIN STREET IN CARMEL. MNE IS A LOT SMALLER IN HEIGHT, ONLY 22 FEET. THIS ONE WAS 27. AND THEY ARE COMMON PLACE. IT SEEMS TO BE PEOPLE WITH ENOUGH SPACE TO DO THINGS ARE NOW TRYING TO HAVE FAMILY MEMBERS AT HOME AND AGAIN FOR ME, ELDERLY RELATIVES WHO LIVE IN OTHER COUNTRIES, THE LAST THING I WANT TO DO IS PUT THEM UP AT THE RED ROOF DOWN THE ROAD. IF THEY WANT TO STAY WITH ME AND SEE THEIR GRANDSON FOR THE FIRST TIME IN A YEAR, THAT'S WHAT WE ARE AIMING FOR. >> MADAM PRESIDENT, YOU CAN STAY UP THERE. DRAINAGE, I'M NOT [01:50:01] ASKING, I'M JUST MAKING A COMMENT. DRAINAGE IS GOING TO BE TAKEN CARE OF BY ENGINEERING. THERE IS SUCH THING AS NATURAL DRAINAGE THOUGH. SOMETIMES WATER GOES WHERE IT GOES NOT BECAUSE OF A BUILDING. IF YOU LOOK AT THE TOPOG RAPHY, IT IS MUCH MORE INTRICATE THAN ANY OF MY BRAIN WANTS TO DEAL WITH BUT THEY UNDERSTAND WHERE WATER IS GOING TO GO. THIS WON'T BE BUILT IF THIS CAUSES WATER TO LEAVE THE PROPERTY. IT WON'T. CORRECT? IT CANNOT CHANGE THE SITUATION. IT HAS TO MAINTAIN OR MAKE IT BETTER. AGAIN, DRAINAGE IS NOT THE ISSUE. TRAFFIC CERTAINLY IS NOT THE ISSUE. THIS IS NOT GOING TO CREATE TRAFFIC AND DENSITY. IF SOMEBODY WITH A 5 ACRE PARCEL BUILT AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, WITHIN CERTAIN GUIDELINES AND WITH STAFF'S GUIDE PS, YES, WE ARE PROBABLY GOING TO SAY YES. THINGS CHANGE. CARMEL IN JUST MY TIME HERE, I MOVED HERE IN 83. IT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT WORLD. SOME PEOPLE LOVE IT. AND TRUST ME, AS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL, A LOT OF PEOPLE DIDN'T LIKE IT. AND YOU HEAR THAT. BUT THAT'S WHY WE HAVE FREEDOM OF CHOICE. WE LIVE AND PLAY WHERE WE WANT TO. I DON'T THINK THIS IS GOING TO HARM THAT. AND IT'S A PROCESS. IF ANYONE WANTS TO ADD SOMETHING TO THEIR PROPERTY, IT HAS TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS. THAT'S WHY WE ARE HERE. IF YOU WROTE RULES THAT COULD NEVER BE CHANGED, YOUR COMMUNITY WOULD FAIL. YOU HAVE TO CHANGE WITH THE TIMES. I HAVE BEEN IN THE RESTAURANT BUSINESS 43 YEARS AND I ALSO SAY A RESTAURANT THAT ISN'T CHANGING IS DYING. SAME WITH THE COMMUNITY. YOU HAVE TO CHANGE. YOU HAVE TO EVOLVE. AND I WILL BE SUPPORTING THIS. >> THANK YOU. >> >> WE DON'T TAKE COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE. >> CAN YOU TELL ME IF THE EXISTING HOUSE IS TWO STORY? >> YEAH. >> I THINK YOU WERE SHOWING THAT YOU COULD HAVE ROICATED THIS AND MADE THIS AS AN ADDITION OF THE HOUSE AND ADDED ANOTHER FLOOR OVER IT AND WOULD HAVE SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASED THE MASS OF THE BUILDING ON SITE. >> YEAH. >> SOMETIMES IT MAKES SENSE TO SEPARATE STRUCTURES. JUST SO THE APPEARANCE, THE PERCEPTION OF THAT MASSING IS REDUCED WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THAT SITE. >> SO I APPRECIATE THAT. >> THANK YOU. >> I DO APPRECIATE THE RENDERING YOU'RE SHOWING HERE. I UNDERSTOOD THE DIAGRAM, THE MODEL YOU SHOWED ON THE PACKET. IT WAS NOT SELLING ME VERY WELL. SO SEEING THIS I'M FEELING BETTER ABOUT THE DIRECTION YOU ARE PLANNING TO TAKE WITH IT. >> THANK YOU. >> BUT OVERALL, I -- COULD YOU HAVE MADE IT SMALLER, COULD YOU MAKE IT TWO STORIES, I THINK YOU GAVE VALID REASONS. >> I REALLY DID TRY. >> I UNDERSTAND. YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WHO ARE AGING TYPICALLY, YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE TWO FLOORS THAT THEY HAVE TO MANIPULATE STAIRS. AND EVEN IN A GUESTHOUSE. I UNDERSTAND THE NEED FOR YOUR GARAGE AND YOUR SON'S EDUCATIONAL AREA. SO I REALLY DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH WHAT I'M SEEING HERE. AND THIS MAY COME UP IN THE NEXT PETITION. AND I HOPE YOU WILL BE ABLE TO ADDRESS THAT. MY CONCERN WAS ARE YOU GOING TO BE BASICALLY REPLICATING THIS ON THIS OTHER SIDE RIGHT NEXT DOOR? THAT I HAVE A BIT OF AN ISSUE WITH BUT PERHAPS WE WILL GET TO THAT. OVERALL, I'M IN FAVOR OF WHAT WE ARE DOING HERE. >> THANK YOU. >> GO AHEAD. >> AS OUR STATESMAN WOULD SAY, THE MOTION HAS TO BE MADE IN A POSITIVE WAY. I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THIS PETITION. >> OKAY. MOTION. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? >> CAN I ADD THE OTHER CONDITIONS AS THE SECOND? >> YES, PLEASE. >> THAT ANY OUTSTANDING ISSUES [01:55:03] WITH PROJECT DOCS OR STAFF BE HANDLED AND OBVIOUSLY ENGINEERING BUT THEY DON'T NEED MY PERMISSION. AND A SECOND. AND FINDING OF FACTS. >> THANK YOU. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS? >> IF WE NEED A SECOND, I'LL SECOND. >> WE HAVE A SECOND. >> WAS THERE A SECOND? >> YEAH. DO YOU HAVE FURTHER COMMENTS? >> I DIDN'T HEAR THE SECOND. >> OKAY. THEN WE WILL VOTE. ALL IN FAVOR? >> AYE. >> ANY OPPOSED? >> NO. >> ALL RIGHT. THAT'S 4-1, THANK YOU. >> HOW MANY IN FAVOR WAS IT? >> FOUR. >> SO THIS PETITION IS APPROVED. THANK YOU. DO WE HAVE . >> WE HAVE ONE MORE ITEM ON THE AGENDA BUT I DON'T SEE THE PETITIONER. IS IT YOU? YOU AGAIN? >> OKAY. I HATE TO DO THIS BUT WE NEED TO TAKE A 2 MINUTE BREAK. THANK YOU. . >> [H. (V) Zee-Cheng Guest House Variance. ] [02:00:09] >>> OKAY, WE'RE READY TO RECONVENE. ALL RIGHT, OUR FINAL ITEM IN THE PUBLIC HEARINGS, DOCKET PZ- 2025 -- SIR. I'M THE BUILDER WHO'S HOPEFULLY GOING TO BUILD THIS WONDERFUL GUESTHOUSE. THE ONLY VARIANCE REQUESTED ON THIS ONE IS THE SETBACK. THE LOT IS 12. 7 ACRES. WE'RE TRYING TO BUILD A GUESTHOUSE, THE PEOPLE NEXT DOOR THOUGHT IT WAS AMAZING. THEY WERE LIKE, CAN YOU BUILD ONE OF THESE FOR US, TOO. I SAID YES THE ONLY THING I BELIEVE THAT'S WITHIN THE ZONING AND VARIANCE REQUIREMENTS FOR THAT PROPERTY IS THE 60- FOOT SETBACK. WHICH I PUSHED IT BACK I WOULDN'T NEED TO BE HERE BECAUSE I DON'T THINK I NEED A SIZE VARIANCE. BECAUSE THAT LOT IS 12. 7 ACRES. SO I'M SPECTFULLY ASKING WE CAN GO MOVE FORWARD. IF THAT GETS DENIED WE'LL SHOVE IT TO THE BACK OF THE PROPERTY AND GO FOR A BUILDING PERMIT. SAME CONCEPT. THE REASON IT LOOKS THE SAME IS THE ONE NEXT DOOR TO MY HOUSE, THAT'S THE SIZE THEY WERE THINKING OF, THE LAYOUT MAY CHANGE, GOING INTO BUILDING PERMITS, MAKE SURE IT'S STILL CONCURRENT. THE BASIC SIZE OF THE STRUCTURE WOULD BE A SINGLE STORY ON THE PROPERTY LINE, VERY WELL SHELTERED BY TREES. THE DRAINING ISSUE IS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE PROPERTY, THERE ARE NO DRAINING ISSUES ON THIS SIDE. IT WILL HAVE ITS OWN SEPTIC AND WELL. AGAIN, I'M SURE ENGINEERING WILL COMMENT ON THAT. DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD TO THAT. >> ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> DO WE HAVE ANYONE HERE TO SPEAK IN SUPPORT OF THIS PETITION? >> OH, CAN I SPEAK IN SUPPORT, I'M A NEIGHBOR, OR NOT BECAUSE I'M THE PETITIONER AS WELL. >> WE KNOW YOU'RE SUPPORTING IT. >> I JUST WANT TO GET IT ON THE RECORD. >> DO WE HAVE ANYONE HERE TO SPEAK IN OPPOSITION TO THIS PETITION? OKAY, ONE. OKAY. COME ON UP. I'LL GIVE YOU TWO MINUTES. >> GOOD AFTERNOON. I LIVE EXACTLY TO THE WEST ONE LOT FROM WHERE HE WANTS TO BUILD THIS, THIS IS PRETTY MUCH A DUPLICATE OF WHAT HE'S DOING ON HIS OWN PROPERTY, AND AS I STATED EARLIER MY CONCERN IS, THIS IS NOT WITH THE INTEGRITY OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, I KNOW YOU STATED EARLIER THINGS CHANGE, I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT NECESSARILY ON HOUSING, FOOD AND INDUSTRY IT CHANGES. HOUSING IT CAN BE THE SAME. IT'S NOT GROWTH IN SOME PEOPLE'S OPINIONS, BUT IT'S WHAT THEY LIKE, I DON'T OPPOSE THE BUILDING SO MUCH, IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S STARTING A CONTINUOUS TREND IN THE AREA, IT'S NOT THE INTENT OF [02:11:34] >> OKAY, THANK [02:12:01] >> I SAW POOL NEAR THE EXISTING HOUSE. >> OH, YEAH. >> IS THERE ANOTHER POOL FOR THE GUESTHOUSE? >> NO. >> OKAY FOR THE GUEST TO USE THE POOL THEY'LL HAVE TO DRIVE. >> I'M JUST BUILDING IT, I DON'T KNOW THE FAMILY. >> OKAY. >> YOU KNOW, MAYBE THEY CAN'T SWIM OR THEY'RE TOO OLD TO BE IN THE POOL. >> OKAY, THANK YOU. >> GO AHEAD. >> IT'S A SETBACK ISSUE, NOT A POOL ISSUE. >> MADAM PRESIDENT, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE WITH CONDITION OF ADDRESSING ANY REMAIN REMAINING COMMENTS. >> SECOND. >> ALL RIGHT FIRST AND SECOND, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? OKAY, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR -- ANY OPPOSE. ALL RIGHT, IT'S APPROVED. >> THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. AND WE STILL HAVE TWO ITEMS THAT WE BUMPED FROM THE BEGINNING [F. Communications, Bills, and Expenditures (Part 2 of 2)] OF THE AGENDA. SO, THESE TWO ITEMS ARE THE RULES OF PROCEDURES AMENDMENT AND DETERMINING THE 2026 BZA CALL CALENDAR. SIR, ARE YOU GOING TO PRESENT ANYTHING OR DO YOU WANT ME TO JUST SHARE -- >> I'D LOVE TO PRESENT MY ONLY ISSUE IS UNFORTUNATELY MY COMPUTER DIED. >> OKAY. >> AND I CAN'T -- I SPEAK FROM MEMORY THE RULES OF PROCEDURE TO STRIKE THE PARTICULAR TIMES OF MEETINGS AS IT'S INDICATED RIGHT NOW TO THE TIME IT WILL BE DETERMINED BY A MAJORITY OF THIS BOARD, A [02:23:03] . >>> NOT EVERYBODY HAS THAT [02:23:05] FLEXIBILITY. THERE ARE SOME POSITIONS THAT YOU YOU KNOW, I KNOW -- THE BZA MEETINGS AREN'T LENGTHY BUT TONIGHT I STAY CORRECTED. I'VE BEEN HERE NOW FOR 3 1/2 HOURS. OKAY, SO IF YOU FACTOR IN DRIVE TIME I HAVE A FULL- TIME JOB, THIS MEETING TODAY I WOULD HAVE SKIP HALF A DAY OF WORK TO DO THIS AND NOT EVERYBODY CAN FLEX THEIR JOBS AND WE WANT PEOPLE A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT PROFESSIONS REFLECTING A VARIETY OF JOB DEMOGRAPHICS. WE WANT YOUNG PEOPLE AND RETIRED PEOPLE. IF WE MOVE OUR BZA MEETING TO A DAYTIME I'M WORRIED ABOUT WHO'S GOING TO BE AVAILABLE TO SERVE, CAN PEOPLE SHOW UP? SO, WITH REGARDS TO THE REGULAR MEETING, THE HOTLY CONTESTED ISSUES I FEEL STRONGLY FOR 2026 WE SHOULD KEEP IT AT 6:00. >> STARTED THIS MEETING AT 3? >> NOT ME. I'VE BEEN WORKING ALL DAY. SO, YOU KNOW, COULD I HAVE PLANNED AHEAD, YOU KNOW, MAYBE. I WAS IN BACK-TO- BACK MEETINGS ALL DAY AND CAME HERE, SO THAT'S ME. I'M WORKING STILL. >> KEEP IN MIND AS AN ELDER STATESMAN HERE, I'M RETIRED AND I CAN MEET ANY TIME YOU WANT ME TO SO IT DOESN'T MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE. >> WHEN WE THINK OF THE [02:25:01] HEARING OFFICER WE ROTATE WHO'S THE HEARING OFFICER FROM THAT ONE ISSUE WE ONLY TAKE THAT TWO OR THREE TIMES A YEAR EACH OF US, SO THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THERE MIGHT BE PEOPLE WHO COULDN'T SERVE AS A HEARING OFFICER. >> DENNIS, GO AHEAD. >> I GUESS THE WAY I SEE IT, I FEEL LIKE WE HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO THE CITIZENS OF CARMEL TO GIVE THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE ABLE TO MEET WITH US THAT'S CONVENIENT FOR THEM. AND I THINK THE FACT THAT WE ACCEPTED THESE ROLES AS BZA OR ANY MEMBER OF A COMMISSION REQUIRES SOME SACRIFICE ON OUR PART AND SO I THINK IF IT'S A MATTER OF WHO SACRIFICING A LITTLE BIT MORE IT WOULD BE UP TO US TO DO MORE SACRIFICING TO GIVE THAT CONVENIENCE TO THE CITIZENS. CITIZENS. >> THANK YOU. >> GO AHEAD. >> COULDN'T AGREE MORE. AND I WASN'T IMPLYING EARLIER IF WE MOVED IT TO THE DAY WE WOULDN'T QUALITY PEOPLE I WAS REFERRING TO THE FACT THAT WE'D BE LIMB ING QUALITY PEOPLE. I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD RESTRICT THE POOL, MOVING IT TO THE DAY WOULD HEAVILY RESTRICT THE POOL OF PEOPLE TO SERVE. I'D BE HAPPY TO MAKE A MOTION. >> GO AHEAD. >> I'D MOVE TO APPROVE THE CALENDAR AS STATED AND LEAVE OUR TIMES AS THEY ARE IN 2025 FOR 2026. >> I SECOND THAT. OKAY, FIRST -- >> I'D LIKE TO HEAR THAT AGAIN. I DIDN'T HEAR THE WHOLE TEXT. >> GO AHEAD. >> I MOVE TO APPROVE THE CALENDAR AS PRESENTED FOR US FOR 2026 AND LEAVE THEIR TIMES CURRENTLY AS THEY ARE FOR OUR MEETING AND 5:00 FOR THE HEARING OFFICER AND 6:00 FOR THE REGULAR MEETING. >> WE HAVE A FIRST AND SECOND. MY QUESTION IS, ARE WE -- DOES YOUR MOTION INCLUDE BOTH MEETINGS? YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BOTH MEETINGS? >> YES. >> OKAY. >> JUST ONE CLARIFICATION, I APOLOGIZE, THE HEARING OFFICER MEETING STARTS BETWEEN 5:00 AND 5:30 DEPENDING ON THE DOCKET. >> THAT'S WHY I WANT TO LEAVE IT THE SAME. >> THANK YOU. >> BECAUSE IT WASN'T A SPECIFIC TIME. >> OKAY, ARE WE READY TO VOTE? >> OKAY, ALL IN FAVOR OF THIS ENDAR WITH THOSE TIMES -- * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.