[1. Docket No. PZ-2025-00184 PUD: Illinois Street Townhomes PUD Rezone] [00:00:11] TUESDAY, DECEMBER 2ND. REVIEW TONIGHT. IT IS PUD ILLINOIS STREET TOWNHOME PUD REZONE. THE APPLICANT SEEKS PUD REZONE APPROVAL TO ALLOW A NEW TOWNHOME TOWNHOME WITH 28 TOWNHOMES. THE SITE IS LOCATED AT 220 WEST 106TH STREET AND IS ZONED MC/MERIDIAN CORRIDOR FILED BY JIM÷÷ SHINAVER AND JON JON DOBOSIEWICZ OF NELSON & FRANKENBERGER ON BEHALF OF PULTE HOMES. ÚIS THE >> GOOD EVENING. I THINK WE'RE MISSING A FEW FOLKS CLOSER TO THE END OF THIS TABLE LAST TIME, SO I'LL GIVE A BRIEF OVERVIEW TO MAKE SURE WE KNOW WHERE WE STAND. THIS IS SITUATED BETWEEN THE FARMERS INSURANCE BANK ANDAND FORTE BUILDING JUST TO THE NORTH. THE SITE IS VERY IRREGULAR IN SHAPE. IT'S A TRIANGLE. IT HAS A LEGAL DRAIN AND FLOODPLAIN TO THE SOUTH. IT HAS SOME EASEMENTS THAT ARE CUTTING THROUGHOUT THE EASTERN SIDE FOR SANITARY, SO THE DEVELOPABLE ACREAGE IS REALLY COMPACTED AS IT RELATES TO OTHER SITES YOU MAY HAVE SEEN COME FORWARD FOR DEVELOPMENT PURPOSES. IT'S A SINGLE CUL-DE- SAC ONEONE IN AND OUT. THAT'S SOMETHING WE'LL NEED TO ADD TO THE ORDINANCE. OTHER THAN THAT, IT'S FIVE BUILDINGS AS YOU SEE. THREE STORY 25- FOOT WIDE TOWNHOMES AND 20 UNITS IN TOTAL ON THE SITE PLAN. I THINK FROM THERE WE WILL KIND OF JUST JUST THROUGH -- I'LL DO LINE BYLINE AS THE DOC MAKE SURE WE'RE GOOD. GO THROUGH IT, STOP, MAKE SURE WE'RE GOOD IN HOPE WE'LL GET SOME FEEDBACK AND CLOSURE ON THE REPORT. THE PROBLEM LAST TIME WAS GEARED TOWARD THE STREET AND THE STREET CONSTRUCTION. AS I MENTIONED WE HAD A CONDENSED SITE SO WE PUT FORTH A PLAN AND ACTUALLY PIGGYBACKED OFF OF -- OH, I'M FORGETTING THE NAME -- THE PLAN FOR HOME PLACE. HEY, MAYBE WE CAN HAVE A NARROW STREET SCAPE, NO GREEN LAWN OR NO STREET TREES THAT KIND OF THING. IT WAS A DESIRE OF THE COMMITTEE FOR US TO COME BACK WITH SIDEWALKS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET, TREE LAWNS WITH STREET TREES ON BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET AMONGST A FEW OTHER THINGS, SO JUST WANTED TO CONFIRM THAT THE PLAN YOU SEE IN FRONT OF YOU DOES HAVE STREET TREES ON BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET AND IT DOES HAVE SIDEWALKS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET. WE HAD ALSO HAD A NARROWER CROSS-SECTION OF A PAVEMENT SO TO SPEAK. WHAT WE HAVE TODAY IS A 40 FOOLT WIDE SO TWO TRAVEL LANES 20 FEET ASPHALT AND CURVES ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS PLAN. WHILE WE'RE HAPPY TO REPORT ON ALL THOSE ITEMS, I WOULD SAY IT DOES PROVIDE SOME CHALLENGES. ONE OF THE ITEMS THAT WE MENTIONED AT THE LAST HEARING WAS THERE'S A SETBACK THAT'S UNIQUE TO CARMEL THAT'S A 25 SETBACK FROM THE FLOODWAY. WE'VE BAKED INTO THE PUD ORDINANCE SOME RELIEF FOR THAT WILL CONTINUE TO NAVIGATE THE PROCESS WITH ENGINEERING AND OTHER WAIVERS WE WOULD NEED THROUGHOUT THE REST OF IT PROCESS, BUT WE HAD MET WITH STAFF AFTER THE LAST COMMITTEE MEETING, AND I THINK OUR JOINT UNDERSTANDING HOW TO MOVE FORWARD IS RIGHT IN THE PUD ORDINANCE, GET IT APPROVED AS PART OF THIS PROCESS AND CONTINUE TO NAVIGATE THIS SITE PLAN AS NEEDED, SO WE'VE DONE THAT. SO I'LL TURN MY ATTENTION TO THE DOCS COMMENTS IN THE STAFF REPORT. ITEM NUMBER 1 WAS ADDING A PERCENTAGE OR AN ACREAGE OF THE TREES THAT ARE TO BE PRESERVED THE SITE. SO THIS IS AN EXHIBIT. WE SHOWED A COUPLE DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF THIS. IT'S GOTTEN A BIT BETTER WITH TIME, BUT IT'S A 4. 44 ACRE SITE. 0. 5 ACRES OF TREES, SO THE GREEN HIGHLIGHT YOU SEE IS 0. 5 ACRES, WHICH REPRESENTS ABOUT 26% OF THE SITE BEING TREE PRESERVATION. STAFF HAS ASKED THAT WE ADD SOME TEXT INTO THE PUD ORDINANCE TO MAKE SURE WE [00:05:03] MEMORIALALIZE SOMETHING LIKE THIS. WE WOULD BE HAPPY TO DO SO. I WOULD JUST SAY THIS IS NOT A FINAL ENGINEERED PLAN. AND BECAUSE THE SITE IS SO SMALL, THE PERCENTAGE CAN GET OUT OF SCALE PRETTY QUICKLY, SO WE'D BE HAPPY TO COMMIT TO A NUMBER THAT'S 20% MINIMUM, BUT WE'D CERTAINLY TRY TO TARGET THE 26% YOU HAVE -- THAT YOU'VE SEEN ON THE SCREEN HERE TONIGHT. THE SECOND ITEM, AND I THINK THIS IS AN ITEM THAT MIGHT REQUIRE MORE OF A DIALOGUE DIALOGUE DISCUSSION BEFORE WE CONTINUE THROUGHOUT THE REST OF THE COMMENTS RELATED TO ARCHITECTURE. SO PREVIOUSLY YOU HAVE SEEN THE COLOR RENDERING THAT HAS BEEN IN ALL THE BROCHURES, ALL THE PACKETS, RESIDENTIAL IN NATURE, SO THIS EXHIBIT HERE. WHAT WAVE DONE IS A COUPLE THINGS. AS WE'VE MODIFIED THE SITE PLAN FROM A STREET SCAPE PERSPECTIVE WHAT WE'VE DONE IS REDESIGNED THE BUILDING SUCH THAT THEY ALL LOOK LIKE THIS WITH THE FRONT DEER ADJACENT TO EACH OTHER. WHAT THAT MEANS IS ALLOWS US TO HAVE MORE MEANINGFUL GRASS GREEN BETWEEN THE BUILDINGS. IF YOU WERE TO FLIP I KNOW IT'S SMALL SCALE, YOU'D SEE SOMETHING MORE ORIENTED REPEATED LIKE THIS INSTEAD OF THE SMALL, GRASSY STRIPS, WHICH FRANKLY ARE SO NARROW THE GRASS DIES, AND WE ASK TO PUT ROCK OR GRAVEL IN BETWEEN THE DRIVEWAYS AS WELL. ONE IMPROVED ITEM THERE. AS IT SPECIFICALLY RELATES TO THE ARCHITECTURE, WE HAD SOME CONVERSATIONS WITH STAFF, AND WE'VE COME UP WITH A REVISED VERSION OF WHAT YOU SEE HERE. AND THAT BEING, SO HERE AREARE FOUR, FIVE, AND SIX- UNIT BUILDINGS AS THEY WOULD BE PROPOSEDCH AND AGAIN THERE ARE FOUR UNIQUE ELEVATIONS WE WOULD STRING TOGETHER TO CREATE THESE TOWNHOME BUILDINGS. SO YOU SEE UNIT ONE, UNIT TWO, UNIT THREE, UNIT FOUR. ONE THING STAFF DID ASK, AND TO BE TOTALLY HONEST I THOUGHT IT WAS INCLUDED IN THE LAST VERSION OF THE ORDINANCE WE SUBMITTED, SO THIS IS MY APOLOGIES HERE. TO INCLUDE MORE -- MORE LANGUAGE THAT MEMORIALIZED THE AMOUNT OF MASONRY WE PROVIDE ON THESE BUILDINGS. CURRENTLY IT SAYS IT'S FIRST FLOOR ALL THE WAY AROUND. WHILE WE WOULD DO THAT TO ESTABLISH MINIMUMS, THE FRONT CLEARLY WOULD HAVE MORE THAN JUST MASONRY ON THE FIRST FLOOR OF THE VARIOUS UNITS. SO I THINK WHAT WE'D BE WILLING TO ADD TO THE PUD PROVIDED THAT THE COMMITTEE WOULD BE ACCEPTING OF THIS LANGUAGE IS EVERY BUILDING SHALL HAVE AT LEAST ONE UNIT THAT HAS THREE FLOORS OF MASONRY MATERIAL AND ONE UNIT OF AT LEAST TWO STORIES OR FLOORS OF MASONRY MATERIAL, THAT WAY WE JUST KIND OF TIE EVERYTHING BACK TO THESE EXHIBITS HERE. THESE EXHIBITS WOULD BE ATTACHED, INCORPORATED AS REFERENCE EXHIBITS TO THE PUD ORDINANCE SO WE HAVE BOTH A VISUAL AND A TEXT, AND I THINK THAT WOULD -- THAT WOULD GO A LONG WAY. I THINK THAT HITS ON THE MEETING THAT WE HAD WITH STAFF. ONE OF THE OTHER UPDATES THAT WE MADE I BELIEVE FROM THE LAST COMMITTEE MEETING TO THIS ONE WAS RELATED TO THE SIDE ELEVATIONS. SO WHEN WE FILED IT WAS JUST A MASONRY WAINSCOT, YOU KNOW, 36 INCHES OFF THE GROUND. AND THEN FROM PUBLIC HEARING TO COMMITTEE NUMBER 1, IT WAS FIRST FLOOR. AND THEN WE REALLY STARTED TO DIAL IN AND SAY, WELL, WHAT DO THOSE ELEVATIONS THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE SEEING FROM ILLINOIS STREET, WHAT ARE THOSE GOING TO LOOK LIKE? AND SO WE WROTE IN TWO DIFFERENT SCENARIOS, AND THOSE ARE ONE OF THEM IS GOING TO HAVE TWO FLOORS OF MASONRY, AND THE OTHER IS GOING TO HAVE A BUMP OUT. SO IF I GO BACK TO THIS UNIT HERE, TAKE THIS END UNIT AS AN EXAMPLE, YOU HAVE FIRST FLOOR MASONRY, BUT YOU HAVE A SECOND STORY BOX OUT WINDOW, SO IT'S A PROJECTION FROM THE FACADE, AND THAT WOULD BE PAINTED IN A DARK MATERIAL TO MATCH THE TRIM COLOR. YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE IT ON THE COLOR RENDERING AS WELL. SO ONE OF THE TWO UNITS WHERE THE SIDE FACES ILLINOIS STREET, WE WOULD ACTUALLY HAVE A SIMILAR STYLE BUMP OUT ON THAT SIDE FACADE. SO WE HAVE TWO DIFFERENT ELEVATIONS BOTH THAT ARE ENHANCED, AND THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT STAFF HAD ASKED US TO DO, AS WE WERE TALKING HOLISTICALLY ABOUT ARCHITECTURE, NOT ONLY THE FRONT BUT NOW THE SIDES AS WELL. SO I THINK THAT WAS A LOT. I WOULD LIKE THAT TO MAYBE DIGEST, STOP THERE, GET FEEDBACK ON THE ARCHITECTURAL ITEM BEFORE WE CONTINUE TO MOVE THROUGH THE COMMENTS, IF THAT'S OKAY. >> DO YOU WANT TO DO A RESPONSE TO THAT, ON THAT SECTION? >> YEAH, I CAN. I THINK REX DID A GOOD JOB DISCUSSING WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT AT OUR MEETING. THEY WANT TO ADD MORE REQUIREENTS FOR THE MASONRY, WE WERE JUST LOOKING TO SEE THAT IN THE TEXT OF THE PUD. I THINK YOU SAID TONIGHT THEY'RE WILLING TO ADD THAT, SO WE CAN REVIEW THAT ONCE THAT'S BEEN [00:10:01] CHANGED. BUT I DO LOOK THAT CHANGE SINCE THEY'RE SHOWING US THESE ELEVATIONS THAT HAVE MORE, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WHEN THEY COME BACK THAT'S WHAT WE SEE WITH THE ADLS. AND THEN THE SITE ELEVATIONS, THOSE WERE A BIG ITEM BECAUSE THEY FACE ILLINOIS STREET, SO THEY PROPOSED THOSE OTHER ELEMENTS WITH THE BUMP OUT AND THEN THE TWO- STORY BRICK FOR THOSE SIDE ELEVATIONS. AND I BELIEVE THEY ALSO UPDATED THE WINDOWS ON THE SIDES SO THERE'S MORE WINDOWS AND IT HELPS BREAK UP THAT SIDE FACADE BETTER, AND I THINK WE WERE COMFORTABLE WITH THOSE CHANGES. THE ONLY -- AND I LIKE THE ORIENTING OF THE FRONTS, TOO, WITH THE -- SO YOU CAN HAVE MORE LAWN SPACE IN FRONT AND HAVE BETTER SPACE FOR THOSE STREET TREES. AND THEN THE ONLY OTHER ITEM I THINK THAT'S IN THE STAFF REPORT STILL IS THE -- OR IN OUR COMMENTS ARE THE DORM ROOM WINDOWS, AND WE'RE HOPING MAYBE THAT YOU GUYS CAN GIVE SOME FEEDBACK ON THAT, TOO, BECAUSE I LIKE THE LOOK OF THE DORMERS, BUT RIGHT NOW THEY'RE JUST A FAKE DORMER UP THERE, AND BLACKEDOUT WINDOWS, SO IT'LL LOOK DARK UP THERE IN THE EVENINGS AND WON'T LOOK AS ACTIVE, AND IT'S JUST WE'D RATHER SEE THEM OFF OR SEE THEM BUILT OUT AS A TRUE DORMER WINDOW, SO JUST LOOKING FOR SOME FEEDBACK ON THAT AS WELL. OTHERWISE I THINK WHAT REX WENT OVER IS CORRECT. >> THANK YOU. OKAY, COMMITTEE, DO YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT ARCHITECTURES? DOES ANYBODY HAVE SOME COMMENTS? >> SO WHAT ARE BEHIND THE TWO DORMER WINDOWS THAT WE SEE THERE? IS THERE LIVING SPACE BEHIND THERE? >> NO, IT IS -- IT'S THE GARAGE -- NOT THE GARAGE. IT'S LIKE AN ATTIC TRUSS AREA. IT'S UNFINISHED SPACE. THERE WOULD BE BEAMS THAT CROSS. IT IS NOT ACCESSIBLE FROM THE INTERIOR OF THE UNIT. THERE'S NOT A WAY TO MAKE IT ACCESSIBLE FOR THE INTERIOR OF THE UNIT BECAUSE IT'S NOT A STRUCTURALLY HABITABLE SPACE, SO TO SPEAK. >> SO IF I BUY A CONDO, I CAN'T GET UP THERE? >> NO, MA'AM. >> WHAT'S SANTA GOING TO DO? I THOUGHT HE COULD COME THROUGH THE WINDOW. >> AND IT'S NOT LIKE A VAULTED CEILING IN THAT ROOM? SOMETIMES YOU SEE A VAULTED CEILING AND THEN YOU HAVE THE DORMER? >> NO. TO ALEXA'S CREDIT, IT'S AN ARCHITECTURAL FEATURE SPECIFICALLY FOR THE EXTERIOR FOR ENHANCEMENT OF THE BUILDING. IT'S NOT ACCESSIBLE OR VISIBLE OR ANYTHING FROM THE INTERIOR. >> WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE? I MEAN S THAT -- IF I WERE LOOKING TO BUY A CONDO AND THOUGHT I WOULD GET ATTIC SPACE, THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING I WOULD LIKE. IS THAT EVEN A POSSIBILITY? >> IT'S NOT. WE DON'T HAVE THAT. >> THAT'S PRETTY DEFINITIVE. >> I WISH I COULD BE MORE OPEN. NO, I'LL BE VERY HONEST. >> OKAY, THERE'S NO WAY I CAN GET UP THERE. YOU'RE MAKING THAT PRETTY CLEAR. WELL, IF ANYBODY HAS OTHER ARCHITECTURAL QUESTIONS -- I DO LIKE THE DOORS ADJACENT TO EACHEACH WITH THE WIDER GREEN SPACE, AND WHEN THE TIME IS APPROPRIATE, MADAM CHAIR, I'D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT THE LANDSCAPING. >> SURE. >> OKAY. >> REX, COULD THAT AREA BE USED AS STORAGE AT ALL? NO PULL- DOWN, NOTHING? >> IT'S NOT. >> SO IT'S NOT CONNECTED TO THE INSIDE OF THE BUILDING WHATSOEVER? IT'S JUST A FACADE ON THE ROOF ITSELF? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING BASICALLY? >> THERE'S -- WHEN YOU BUILD IT, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE SIDE WALLS, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THE ROOF COMPONENT, BUT IT'S OWN LITTLE CONSTRUCTION FEATURE, SO TO SPEAK. I KNOW THAT'S A TERRIBLE WAY TO DESCRIBE IT, BUT IF YOU O WERE TO GO IN AND DOWN OR IF YOU WERE INSIDE LOOKING UP, IT WOULDN'T BE ACCESSIBLE. SIMILAR TO HOW WE SEE THIS HERE, THERE'S LIKELY STUFF ABOVE THE CEILING, BUT IT'S NOT ACCESSIBLE TO US. >> I DON'T THINK I'M THE ONLY WOMAN THAT WOULD WANT TO BE ABLE TO FIND A WAY TO STORE STUFF UP THERE. >> PART OF THE PROBLEM IS IT'S ROOF TRUSS, SO IT DOESN'T LEND ITSELF TO USABLE ATTIC SPACE, CORRECT? >> CORRECT. >> I MEAN, ONE THING IF IT'S STICK BUILT, THEN YOU COULD MAYBE HAVE ATTIC STORAGE. THOSE TRUSSES ARE 20 INCHES ON CENTER OR WHATEVER. >> RIGHT. >> SO YOU'D NEVER BE ABLE TO CLIMB THROUGH THAT. >> SO FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, WHETHER IT'S CLEAR GLASS OR THE GLASS DOES HAVE A DARK BACKING TO IT TO ELIMINATE THE VIEW INTERIOR OF THAT WE [00:15:01] ALWAYS PREFER TO BLACK IT OUT JUST TO MAKE SURE YOU CAN'T SEE ANYTHING UNFINISHED FROM THE STREET. THE LIKELIHOOD OF THAT HAPPENING, IT DEPENDS ON THE DAY, TIME, THE SUNLIGHT, ET CETERA. SO WE WILL TAKE FEEDBACK FROM THE CITY HOW WE WILL HANDLE THAT. >> WHEN I'M THINKING ABOUT FAKE DORMERS OR FAKE WHATEVER, A LOT OF TIMES YOU'LL SEE, LIKE, LOUVERED -- LOUVERED -- >> OH, YOU MEAN GLASS? >> GLASS, WHATEVER. BUT IN GARAGES I SEE THE LOUVERS. IS THAT SOMETHING STAFF WOULD PREFER TO SEE OTHER THAN THE BLACKOUT WINDOW, A LOUVERED TYPE OF -- I'M JUST THROWING SUGGESTIONS OUT. >> SO WHAT'S ON THE PEAKED ROOFROOF THERE. >> THAT IS ACTUALLY GLASS AS WELL. >> OH, THAT'S GLASS, TOO. IS THAT BLACKED OUT GLASS ALSO? OKAY. I DON'T THINK HOW THAT WOULD LOOK ON ALL OF THE DORMERS WITH THE TWO AND TWO, BUT I LIKE WHERE YOU'RE HEADED OF IT SEEMS MORE FUNCTIONAL INSTEAD OF JUST A DARK GLASS. >> I MEAN SOMETHING OTHER THAN JUST DARK GLASS WOULD BE LOOK BETTER THAN -- EVEN IF IT WERE A DIFFERENT COLOR TO COMPLEMENT THE COLORS THAT ARE ON THE FRONT OF THE FACADE AS WELL. I DON'T KNOW, I'M JUST THROWING OUT SUGGESTIONS IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S A NO- GO FOR THE REST OF THE COMMITTEE. >> I MEAN, GUESS YOU CAN'T MAKE THEM CLEAR GLASS IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. >> WELL, SO TO BE VERY CLEAR, IT IS A REAL TRUE CLEAR GLASS WINDOW. WHAT HAPPENS IS BECAUSE THE SPACE ON THE INTERIOR IS UNFINISHED, WE PUT A BLACK MATERIAL BEHIND IT. SO IT IS CLEAR. MOST OF THE TIME WHEN YOU DRIVE THROUGH A COMMUNITY WHERE WE'VE DONE THIS BEFORE, IT JUST LOOKS LIKE IT'S TINTED. YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU HAVE A CAR, YOU SEE A CAR DRIVING DOWN THE STREET AND YOU SEE REALLY TINTED WINDOWS YOU CAN'T SEE IN, THAT'S THE APPEARANCE THAT IT GIVES, BUT IT IS A TRUE WINDOW. >> WHAT ABOUT FAUX STAINED GLASS? I'M JUST THROWING OUT SUGGESTIONS. SOME SORT OF FAUX STAINEDSTAINED -- I MEAN, IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT YOU CAN GET THOSE LITTLE -- NO OFFENSE, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING YOU CAN COVER THE WINDOWS AT YOUR OWN HOME WITH FAUX -- LIKE A FILM, JUST SOMETHING OTHER THAN BLACK GLASS OR LOUVERS. I'M JUST THROWING OUT SUGGESTIONS IF THIS IS SOMETHING ANYBODY ELSE IS THINKING ABOUT. >> I NOTICED THE OTHER DAY DRIVING UP I THINK IT'S UNION STREET, DO YOU HAVE SIMILAR BUILDINGS? DO THOSE BUILDINGS HAVE THOSE DORMERS OR NOT, I CAN'T REMEMBER. >> YEP. IT'S ALMOST DENTICAL. >> I HAVE TO ADMIT I WAS IMPRESSED. I WAS ONE OF THOSE AT THE LAST COMMITTEE MEETING CONCERNED ABOUT SO MANY WINDOWS. THE WINDOWS AREN'T A PROBLEM I THINK IT'S YOU SEE IT MORE ON THE ELEVATION IT LOOKS LIKE NOTHING BUT WINDOWS, BUT IN THE REAL SCHEME OF THINGS. >> WHERE IS THAT ON UNION? >> YOU KNOW WHEREWHERE NEW -- SO NEW ROUND ABBT ON 151ST, WHEN YOU GET UP TO THAT WHERE YOU WOULD GO TO TURN TO RALSH MAZDA. >> THAT'S JUST INSTALLED A NEW STOP SIGN. THAT'S OUR NEW BORDER. >> I'M CURIOUS, HOW MANY UNITS ARE THERE? IS IT SIMILAR TO THIS? >> IT IS. IT'S THE SAME -- >> NUMBER WISE AND EVERYTHING? >> THAT ONE I THINK IT HAS 80 UNITS. THE SITE HAS ALMOST FOUR TIMES THE SIZE. >> OKAY. >> REX, THIS WAS -- I GUESS I'M PREFACING BY SAYING FOR ME I'M VERY -- ON THIS CONCEPT OR IDEA, BUT IF THIS IS SOMETHING TO PASS THROUGH, WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO REPLICATE THE DORMERS ON THE REAR ELEVATIONS? >> IT'S NEVER BEEN BROUGHT UP BEFORE. I DON'T KNOW. MY INITIAL REACTION IS NO. CAN IT BE DONE? MAYBE. I WOULD LIKE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE DESIGN IS GOING TO END UP BEING OR LOOKING LIKE BEFORE I WOULD SAY YES TO THAT. >> SURE, THANK YOU. >> ADAM, I'VE NEVERNEVER SOMETHING LIKE THAT BEFORE. IS THAT SOMETHING YOU'VE SEEN BEFORE? IS THERE A PLACE THAT YOU'VE [00:20:02] SEEN IT? >> I COULD BE WRONG, BUT I FEEL LIKE THE MEDICAL OFFICE IMMEDIATELY TO THE SOUTH HAS THE DORMERS IN THE BACK IN THE REAR. >> WHEN YOU'RE INSIDE THE BUILDING YOU ALSO CAN SEE OUT ALL THOSE WINDOWS BECAUSE IT'S AN OFFICE BUILDING. BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, THEY DO HAVE DORMERS ALL THE WAY AROUND. IF THAT WERE GOING TO BE A CONSIDERATION, I COULD SEE IT AS MAYBE A DESIRABLE AMENITY ON THE SOUTH BUILDINGS. >> WHAT I WOULD BE LOOKING AT AS WELL. >> BUT I DON'T KNOW THE ONES IN THE NORTH BECAUSE YOU'RE LOOKING LITERALLY RIGHT UP AT FORTE. NOBODY'S GOING TO SEE IT. >> A LOT OF VISITORS AT FORTE. >> I DON'T KNOW THEY'D BE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT THE DORMERS LOOK LIKE. I THINK THEY'D BE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT THEY SEE ONCE THEY GET INSIDE THE HOSPITAL. >> JUST AS A FOLLOW- UP, I THINK I WOULD LIKE YOU GUYS TO CONSIDER EITHER DOING SOME LOUVERS IN THE BLACKOUT SPACES AND MAYBE SOME -- OR SOME SORT OF FILM THAT'S JUST NOT BLACK JUST TO GIVE IT A LITTLE BIT OF DIFFERENT DIMENSION. JUST MY SUGGESTION. I THINK IT WOULD PERSONALLY ADD SOME DISTINCTION TO THEM. WE WENT THAT ROUTE WHERE THE TRUE GABLES ARE IN GRAY, THESE PARTICULAR AREAS, MAYBE THOSE COULD BE SUBSTITUTED FOR A DECORATIVE LOUVER OR FEATURE. I WOULDN'T WANT TO MIX AND MATCH THE DORMERS HOW THOSE LOOK, SO I'D SAY THOSE NEED TO BE SOMEWHAT UNIFORM, BUT WE CAN EXPLORE A DIFFERENT TYPE OF FILM OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT TO LESSEN THE DARKNESS, SO TO SPEAK. >> OKAY, SO TO BE CLEAR HERE AS FAR AS MASONRY, ALL OF THEM HAVE IT ON THE FIRST FLOOR NOW? >> YES, MA'AM. >> THE WHOLE FIRST FLOOR, OKAY. AND THEN ONE OF THE -- WE'RE LOOKING AT FOUR- UNIT ONES, TWO STORIES AND ONE'S TWO-STORY? ? >> THAT'S CORRECT. >> I DIDN'T HEAR YOU SAY THEY'D HAVE IT ALL COMPLETELY ON THE FIRST FLOOR. >> YES. ALL FIRST FLOOR, ALL THE SAME SIZE, AND THAT TEXT IS IN THE PUD TODAY. >> GREAT. >> WHAT DIDN'T MAKE IT INTO THE PUD, AND AGAIN, THAT'S MY APOLOGIES IS MAKING SURE WE HAVE MORE THAN JUST FIRST FLOOR MASONRY ON THE FIRST FLOOR UNITS, SO WE SPECIFICALLY SAID HERE ARE THE BUILDING STRINGS AND HERE ARE THE INDIVIDUAL UNITS JUST TO MAKE SURE THERE'S NO LACK OF CLARITY. WHAT WE WOULD DO IS WE WOULD ADD TEXT TO THE PUD TO MIMIC WHAT WE'RE SEEING. >> WHERE ARE THE HVAC UNITS? >> THESE UNITS WOULD TYPICALLY BE EITHER ON THE SIDES OR THE REAR. >> OF EACH UNIT? >> SO IT DEPENDS ON THE UTILITY, WHERE THOSE BANKS OF UTILITIES ARE WHETHERWHETHER BE METERS OR HVAC UNITS. >> DID YOU NEED TO SEE THAT IN THE PUD WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO BE AT ALL? >> I THINK WE WOULDN'T WANT TO SEE THEM ON THE FRONT, SO IF WE CAN GET THEM MORE SPECIFIC TO THIS STAGE. >> SOME TEXT THEY EITHER BE ON THE SIDE OR THE BACK. IT MAKES SENSE. WHO WOULD PUT IT ON THE FRONT, BUT YOU NEVER KNOW DOWN THE ROAD. >> TOTALLY GET IT. WE CAN DO THAT. >> ANY OTHER COMMENTS? NO. >> YOU TAKE IT WHERE YOU'RE GOING NEXT, AND WE CAN COME BACK. >> SO THERE ARE -- THERE'S NOT INDIVIDUAL LOT LANDSCAPING, BUT LET ME TOUCH ON A COUPLE OF THE STAFF COMMENTS RELATED TO TREES AND SUCH, AND MAYBE YOOEK OPEN IT UP TO OTHER LANDSCAPING HAVE, DUBBIE. SO COMMENT NUMBER 3 IS REQUIRING TREES TO BE PLANTED IN ADDITION TO TREES BEING PRESERVED. I THINK THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE 10 TREES PER ACRE, I THINK THAT'S WHAT THE CODE SAYS. AND THAT'S FINE. WE'LL FIGURE OUT A WAY TO DO THAT. I THINK OUR HESITATION WAS WHEN WE FLIP BACK TO THAT AREA HOW MUCH IS LEFT AND KNOWING WE HAVE AN EASEMENT ON THE FAR EAST SIDE WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO PLANT NEW TREES ON, KNOWING WE'RE GOING TO HAVE DRY RETENTION BASINS, THE PARKING AREA AND SUCH. WE JUST FELT THAT IT WAS POTENTIALLY LIMITING INTO THE FUTURE, BUT WE UNDERSTAND THE TREES ARE IMPORTANT, SO WE'D BE HAPPY TO COMPLY WITH ITEM NUMBER 3 PER THE STAFF COMMENTS. THEN ITEM NUMBER 4 I THINK IS THE NEXT BIG ONE ABOUT BUFFER YARD REQUIREMENTS. SO WE TALKED ABOUT THE [00:25:01] PRIORITIES THAT WE LEFT WITH LAST TIME AND HOW WE WERE ABLE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE STREET SCAPE WAS EVERYTHING THAT WE WANTED IT TO BE. SO, LIKE I SAID, THAT COMES WITH SOME OTHER CHALLENGES. ONE OF THE CHALLENGES BEING WE NEEDED IN THE REDUCTION OF THE 25- FOOT FROM THE LEGAL DRAIN TO THE SOUTH. WHAT THAT ALSO DOES IS THERE'S NOT ROOM ALONG THE NORTH PROPERTY LINE WITH FORTE TO HAVE A TRUE BUFFER YARD THERE. SO WHAT WE CAN DO IS -- SO THERE'S GOING TO BE A REAR YARD DRAINAGE SWALE OR EASEMENT THAT'S REQUIRED, WHICH IS TYPICAL. THE CARMEL STANDARD FOR THAT, I BELIEVE, IS 30 FEET WIDE. THE WAY THAT THE SITE IS ORIENTED AND THE WAY THE SPACE WE'VE ADDED HERE IN THE MIDDLE, WE'VE TAKEN AWAY FROM THE SPACE WE WOULD HAVE OTHERWISE HAD ON THE NORTH. SO WHAT WE CAN DO IS WE CAN PROVIDE A 20- FOOT DRAINAGE EASEMENT IN LIEU OF THE 30, AND THEN WITHIN 3 FEET OF THAT NORTHERN PROPERTY LINE, SO STILL WITHIN THE DRAINAGE EASEMENT, BUT IT'S CLOSE TO THAT NORTHERN PROPERTY LINE AS POSSIBLE, WE CAN COMPLY WITH THAT. I THINK IT'S A TYPE "C" BUFFER YARD I THINK IS 7 TREES PLUS 100 PLUS SOME SHRUBS. WE CAN AGREE TO PUT THOSE IN. JUST FULL DISCLOSURE IT'S GOING TO BE WITHIN THE DRAINAGE EASEMENT BECAUSE WE'VE STOLEN SPACE TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE THE STREET SCAPE THROUGH THE MIDDLE. >> ARE YOU DONE WITH THIS SECTION? >> YES. NOW, DEPENDING ON THE FEEDBACK, THERE'S A PLAN "B" ANDAND PLAN "C," BUT I THINK THIS IS THE -- THE IDEA IS THAT THE CITY WANTS US TO PUT IN THE TREES ALONG THE NORTH BOUNDARY LINE. WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO DO THAT, SO WE THINK THIS IS THE BEST OPTION, BUT I'LL STOP THERE. >> WELL, IF YOU'VE GOT A "B" AND "C," LET'S HEAR IT SO WE DON'T HAVE TO -- >> SO PLAN "B" IS RECS NO WAY ARE WE GOING TO APPROVE LANDSCAPING WITHIN OUR DRAINAGE EASEMENT. WE GET IT. WHAT WE WOULD DO THEN IS WE'VE ALREADY MET WITH THE FORTE FOLKS, AND THEY HAVE EXPRESSED A DESIRE TO SOME TYPE OF BUFFERING AND SCREENING. WE DIDN'T LAND ON WHAT THAT LOOKED LIKE, WHETHER IT WOULD BE SOME TYPE OF TREES OR FENCE OR COMBINATION THEREOF. WE WANTED TO GET THROUGH THE PROCESS AND FIGURE OUT WHAT THE CITY REALLY WANTED US TO DO THERE. SO IF IT'S NOT ON OUR PROPERTY WITHIN THE DRAINAGE EASEMENT, IT COULD BE REX, GO WITH FORTE AND PLANT THOSE TREES ON FORTE'S PROPERTY. THAT WOULD BE PLAN "B. " PLAN "C" IF THEY SAY NO, WE FORGET ABOUT THE TREES AND THERE COULD BE A PRIVACY FENCE FROM ILLINOIS TO THAT EASTERN BUILDING RIGHT THERE BECAUSE THERE'S NOT THE ROOM TO PROVIDE ADEQUATE, YOU KNOW, LANDSCAPING -- THERE'S NOT ADEQUATE ROOM TO PROVIDE FOR THE LANDSCAPING, SO THAT WOULD BE PLAN "C," BUT THAT'S NOT TREES. SO NEEDING TO UNDERSTAND FROM THE CITY'S PERSPECTIVE WHAT'S MORE IMPORTANT? IS IT THE TREES REGARDLESS OF WHERE THEY'RE LOCATED, OR IS IT A FENCE THAT WOULD PROVIDE SCREENING BUT NOT THE TREE ELEMENT? >> SUE, MAY I INTERRUPT? SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE EASEMENT IT SAYS, I GUESS THIS IS A TECHNICAL QUESTION, SOMEONE CAN ANSWER FOR BE. MAYBE IT'S STAFF, MAYBE IT'S YOU. WHAT IS THE IMPACT ON THE DRAINAGE EASEMENT IF YOU DO PLANT TREES IN THERE? IS THERE SOME SORT OF IMPACT THAT WE HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT FOR THAT? PARDON? >> TYPICALLY YOU PUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE SWALE, PIPE, WHATEVER IT MAY BE CENTERED WITHIN THE EASEMENT SO THAT THERE'S ENOUGH SPACE ON BOTH SIDES TO, "A," GRADE IT APPROPRIATELY SO THE WATER CAN BE CONVEYED TO THAT, BUT THEN, "B," ALLOW FOR THE CITY TO GO IN LATER IF THERE'S A PROBLEM TO RECONSTRUCT OR DO MAINTENANCE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. >> SO IT COULD DAMAGE THE TREE, IF THERE WERE TREES THERE AND THE CITY HAD TO GO IN, THE CITY WOULD THEN BE RESPONSIBLE FOR REPLACING THOSE TREES IF THEY DAMAGED THEM? >> IF THEY GOT TOO CLOSE, RIGHT. AND THAT WAS THE REASON WE WOULD TRY TO HUG ALL THE LANDSCAPING ALONG THE NORTHERN PROPERTY LINE IN LIEU OF -- >> OKAY, WAS THIS ANGIE STEVENSON THAT YOU MET WITH AT FORTE? >> WE DID, YES. >> BECAUSE I KNOW IN OUR CORRESPONDENCE THAT WE READ THAT THEY WERE INTERESTED IN HAVING THAT BUFFER THERE. THEY WERE CONCERNED IT WASN'T THERE SO -- >> CORRECT. SO WE MET WITH ANGIE. SHE TOOK US THROUGH THE FACILITY. SHE TOOK US THROUGH THE SECOND FLOOR CONFERENCE ROOM THAT OVERLOOKS OUR SITE, AND I'VE GOT SOME GOOD PICTURES OF IT ON MY PHONE YOU PROBABLY CAN'T SEE. SHE SAT US IN THE BOARDROOM AND SAID, HEY, OUR DOCTORS, OUR PROFESSIONALS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE BUFFER. IT WASN'T SO MUCH TREES AND [00:30:01] LANDSCAPING. IT WAS JUST MORE OF HAVING SOME TYPE OF SCREENING. THAT'S WHAT SHE CONVEYED TO OUR TEAM. AND THIS WAS PROBABLY 3 OR 4 WEEKS AGO. >> SO TO BE CLEAR WHAT WE DECIDE IS GOING TO GO IN THE PUD -- OR WHATEVER COLLECTIVELY WE DECIDE ON IS GOING TO BE IN THE PUD IN THE LANGUAGE, SO WE HAVE TO MAKE A REALLY GOOD DECISION. >> CORRECT. I PERSONALLY DON'T LIKE ANY OF THE OPTIONS. >> WELL, THE OPTION I LIKE THE BEST IS THE ONE WORKING WITH FORTE AND COLLECTIVELY LANDSCAPING ALONG THERE. ARE THEY CONSIDERED TREES? >> I DON'T THINK IT WOULD COMPLY WITH THE CITY'S CODE? I THINK IT SAYS SIX SHADE TREES AND THAT'S A TERM FOR THE CITY'S CODE THAT WOULD REQUIRE ONE DECIDUOUS TREE AND ONE ORNAMENTAL TREE. I DON'T THINK IT WOULD -- >> IF YOU WOULD TRY TO PLANT THAT TO THE BUFFER YARD STANDARDS IT SPECIFICALLY MENTIONS SHADE TREES AND ORNAMENTAL, BUT WE CAN WRITE WHATEVER WE WANT INTO THE PUD RIGHT NOW. IF THERE ISN'T ROOM BUT THERE WOULD BE ROOM FOR ANOTHER TYPE OF TREE, I MEAN THAT MIGHT BE BETTER THAN JUST A FENCE. >> I'M SORRY, I'M ASKING BECAUSE Y'ALL KNOW WHAT THEY ARE. THEY GROW DENSE AND TOGETHER, AND IT WOULD BE AN EFFECTIVE SCREENING. I DON'T THINK THE ROOT BALL TAKES UP AS MUCH ROOM AS A SHADE TREE, WHICH MIGHT BE BETTER FOR THE DRAINAGE AREA. WHATEVER GETS DECIDED AS LANGUAGE THAT GOES INTO THE PUD, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT AS AN OPTION AND EVEN INCLUDE IT, YOU KNOW, IF -- IF AGREED BY FORTE EITHER THIS OR THIS, YOU KNOW, SO THAT THE PUD HAS SOME LATITUDE FOR WHAT COULD HAPPEN THERE. THAT WOULD BE MY FIRST CHOICE. SO THE SECOND OPTION YOU'RE SAYING IS TO PUT TREES IN, AND I THOROUGHLY AGREE. I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE CREATING A NEW POTENTIAL PROBLEM DOWN THE ROAD IF YOU DO THAT. IF YOU GO WITH SOME SORT OF A WALL, I DIDN'T GO UP TO THEIR CONFERENCE ROOM ON THE SECOND FLOOR, BUT I HAVE DRIVEN THAT. AND BEFORE WINTER SET IN I ACTUALLY WALKED THAT AREA. AND YOU'RE GOING TO LOSE JUST TO GET THOSE BUILDINGS IN ALL OF THE -- MOST OF TREES IN THERE I THINK I MENTIONED THIS THE LAST TIME ARE JUNK TREES. THERE'S VERY LITTLE IN THERE WORTH SAVING. YOU'VE GOT INVASIVE STUFF. YOU'VE GOT JUNK AND SCRUB STUFF IN THERE. SO THIS IS ONE OF THE FEW TIMES WHERE I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH SOME OF THAT STUFF COMING OUT, SO IT'S A MESS IN THERE ANYWAY. BUT THE ONLY COUPLE THREE NICE ONES ARE GOING TO HAVE COME OUTOUT FROM THOSE NORTHERN BUILDINGS. SO IF YOU END UP, YOU KNOW, THE FENCE IS AN OPTION I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT A REALLY NICE ONE AND NOT A WHITE VINYL FENCE OR A -- BUT PROBABLY A MASONRY OR BRICK OR SOMETHING THAT WOULD AT LEAST GO AESTHETICALLY PLEASING ALONG THERE. AND TO THE EAST ADJACENT TO 31, THE GRAY AREA THERE YOU'RE SAYING NOTHING CAN BE PLANTED IN THERE? >> SO WE DON'T OWN ANYTHING HERE, AND THAT'S -- IT SHOWS TREES ON THIS AERIAL, AND I THINK JOHN SAID IT BEST LAST MONTH, THE TREES ARE THERE IN SPIRIT. THEY'RE MULCH NOW BECAUSE OF THE IMPROVEMENTS BEING MADE. >> THAT'S TRUE. THERE ARE NO TREES THERE. >> AND IF YOU SEE -- I THINK YOU IT IN YOUR BROCHURES, TOO, IF YOU HAVE AVAILABILITY, BUT THERE ARE SOME DASH LINES THAT CUT THROUGH THE CUL-DE- SAC THERE, SO WE CAN'T PLAN IT. SO THIS TRIANGLE SOUTH OF THE SANITAR EASEMENT AND WHAT YO SEE NORTH OF IT, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ABLE TO PRESERVE IN AREAS THAT WE DON'T NEED TO PRESERVE AND THEN REPLANT IN THESE -- >> WELL, I ASKED THE QUESTION BECAUSE ONE OF THE LETTERS SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED THE FACT THERE ARE NO TREES THERE, AND THE PUFFER WITH 31, AND I AGREE WITH IT, SO MY QUESTION ISIS IS THERE AN OPTION TO DO ANYTHING? AND IT SOUNDS LIKE ONLY IF THE STATE HIGHWAY DEPARTMENT DECIDES THEY WANT TO? IS THAT WHERE THAT DECISION RESTS? >> IF IT'S OUTSIDE THE COLOR OF WHAT YO SEE ON THIS EXHIBIT, YES. IF IT'S WITHIN THE GREENISH COLOR OF THIS EXHIBIT, THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING WE COULD CONTROL AND WE COULD PLANT TREES THERE. AND QUITE FRANKLY TO HIT THE NUMBER OF TREES WE COMMITTED TO ON TEN TREES PER ACRE, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO. SO PRETTY MUCH WHERE YOU SEE GREEN DOTS, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE NEW TREES GOING IN THE GROUND. SO AT THE -- [00:35:02] >> LIKE OVER HERE? >> SO GO UP TO WHERE YOU'VE GOT A GREEN TREE AROUND THE CUL-DE-SAC WHERE YOUR FINGER IS, WELL, IF CROW COME SOUTH YOUYOU THERE'S LITERALLY NOTHING THAT CAN BE PLANTED IN THERE BECAUSE OF OTHER RESTRICTIONS? >> CORRECT. >> SO THAT'S OFF-LIMITS? >> I CANNOT PLANT ANYTHING IN THAT AREA. >> OKAY, WELL, I THINK IT'S HELPFUL TO HAVE THAT ON RECORD BECAUSE THAT WAS ONE OF THE CONCERNS THAT WAS REGISTERED IN ONE OF THE FEW LETTERS THAT HAS COME IN ABOUT THIS. SO THAT'S A STATE HIGHWAY DEPARTMENT DECISION IF ANYTHING CAN BE PLANTED IN THE GRAY AREA THAT'S NOT. >> CORRECT. >> IN THE GRAY AREA. >> AND THE RED AREA CANNOT BECAUSE OF ANY EASEMENT. >> SO THE ONLY OPTION IS THERE THE STATE HIGHWAY DEPARTMENT TO DO SOMETHING IN THE RED AREA? I THINK THAT OUGHT TO BE ON IT RECORD FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE AN INTEREST IN THAT AND WANT TO KNOW WHY WE CAN'T MANDATE THAT. >> I THINK, REX, TO ADD ONTO THAT AND, DEBBIE, THE PORTION HEADING SOUTHWEST, YOU CAN'T PLAN THAT EITHER. ALL THAT. >> JOHN'S HERE. ALL RIGHT, SEE EVERYTHING IN BLUE, THAT'S WHAT I WAS JUST TRYING TO ADD WITH MY RED MARKERS. EVERYTHING IN BLUE IS THE SANITARY EASEMENT WHERE WE CANNOT PLANT ANYTHING. THE DARKER GREEN IS WHERE YOU'D SEE THE TREE PRESERVATION, AND THEN THE MEDIUM GREEN WOULD BE THE COMMON AREA WHERE WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO POTENTIALLY PLANT TREES SANS THE DRY DETENTION BASINS. SO THERE WOULD BE AN AREA A LITTLE BIT UP HERE, KIND OF TO THE WEST HERE. ADAM, DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING? >> NO. >> I MEAN, THIS IS A COMMITTEE MEETING AND ANYBODY CAN JUMP IN AND WALK OVER SOMEBODY. >> I WAS GOING TO CHANGE TOPICS. LET ME ASK A QUESTIO SOMEWHAT RELATED TO THIS AND THE GRADING YOU SHOW. THE PLANTING AREAS OR EASEMENTS AND RESTRICTIONS, I GUESS I GOT A COUPLE QUESTION. THE DRAINAGE EASEMENT AREA WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RUNNING ALONG THE NORTH PROPERTY LINE, IS THERE A DEFINED SWALE YOU'RE PUTTING IN? >> YEAH. >> THERE IS. I DON'T SEE IT LIKE CONTOURS LIKE THE ONES TO THE SOUTH I GUESS IF I MAY MAKE A COMMENT. >> YES. SO WE HAVE AN EXHIBIT THAT HAS A LITTLE BIT MORE INFRASTRUCTURE TO IT. >> OKAY. RUNNING EAST, WEST, LEFT TO RIGHT AT THE TOP OF THE PRIORITY THERE'S SIMILAR EASEMENTS AND OTHER DRAINS, ANY UTILITIES, ANYTHING GOING IN THERE? >> THERE'S NOTHING ALONG THE NORTH. ALL THE UTILITIES WOULD BE COMING ALONG THE STREET WE'D HAVE WATER ON ONE SIDE, SANITARY ON THE OTHER, DRAINAGE DOWN THE MIDDLE. IT'S AN INVERTED CROWN. DOES THAT HELP ANSWER? >> WELL, IT DOES. AGAIN, THAT'S WHERE I'M WONDERING, AND PERHAPS THAT'S A PIECE OF THE DISCUSSION IS CAN THERE BE LANDSCAPING IN THOSE AREAS? YOU'RE NOW DRAWING WITH A LEFT TO RIGHT ARROW. IS THERE A SWALE THERE, JOHN OR REX? >> THERE'S DEFINITELY A SWALE. I WOULD HESITATE TO SAY THERE'S AN ACTUAL PIPE THERE JUST BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T GONE THROUGH FINAL ENGINEERING. BUT THERE'S DEFINITELY A DEFINED SWALE. >> OKAY, ON A SOMEWHAT SIMILAR TOPIC, IT'S HERE, IT'S ON THE COLOR RENDERING. ALL RIGHT, GOT MY PAGES OUT OF ORDER. THE OTHER COLOR RENDERING YOU SHOWED, YEAH, THAT ONE THERE. SO IT CLEARLY SHOWS THE TWO DRIED DETENTION AREAS. ONE THING I WAS WONDERING REGARDING TRYING TO CREATE AREAS AND PLANT TREES, CAN THE DRY DETENTION ON THE LOWER LEFT, CAN THAT NOT BE ENLARGED TO THE WEST IN BETWEEN THE TREE PRESERVATION AREA AND THE TREE PLANTING AREA SUCH THAT THEN THE SMALLER ONE THAT REALLY LOOKS PRETTY SMALL TO ME, CAN THAT BE PLANTED IN A DIFFERENT WAY, I GUESS IS WHAT I WAS WONDERING. MAYBE IT'S A NEW, BUT I THOUGHT I'D ASK. >> I THINK PART OF THE WESTERN EDGE IS WE NEED TO KEEP IT SO FAR AWAY FROM THE ROAD. I BELIEVE THE EXHIBIT I SAW TODAY FROM HWBC SAID FROM THE RIGHT AWAY SO THE THICK BLOCK HERE TO THE BANK IS 60 FEET. I PERSONALLY DO NOT KNOW THE DRAINAGE CODE WELL ENOUGH TO SAY WHAT THE NUMBER IS. I KNOW THERE IS A DISTANCE THAT YOU'D NEED TO KEEP THAT AWAY FROM THE ROAD. THERE WAS A COMMENT SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE OF PROVIDING MORE OR ADDITIONAL OR, HEY, YOU MAY NEED THIS IN ADDITIONAL SPACE, SO THERE WAS ANOTHER SMALL POCKET OF DRY DETENTION BASIN THERE, AND AGAIN THAT WOULD HAVE TO END UP GETTING PIPES. YES, IT'S SMALL, AND I DON'T BELIEVE THERE'S ROOM TO EXPAND. BUT WE CAN CONTINUE TO LOOK AT THAT AS WE NAVIGATE ANY [00:40:02] PROCESS, WHETHER IT BE HERE OR THE PLAT. >> TO FOLLOW UP YOUR QUESTION AND THIS GOES ALONG WITH WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND I'M GOING TO BOUNCE IT OFF YOU, BECAUSE YOU CAN READ THIS BETTER THAN ANYONE IN THIS ROOM. WITH THE DRAINAGE ON THE ROAD, SO THE DRAINAGE, THE WAY THE ROAD'S DESIGNED, CAN YOU TELL WHETHER THAT DRAINAGE IS -- WHERE THE DRAINAGE IS GOING TO GO ON THAT ROAD? IN OTHER WORDS, IS IT GOING TO GO TO THE CENTER? IS IT GOING TO GO TO EAST, WEST, NORTH, SOUTH? >> I THINK YOUR QUESTION IS RELATED TO -- I THINK IT'S IN EXHIBIT "E" AS PART OF THE PUD IT HAS AN INVERTED CROWN. I WAS GOING TO BRING THAT UP BUT WE HAVEN'T QUITE GOT TO THE STREET YET. MY POINT IS LET'S AVOID THE STREET AND AVOID INVERTEDINVERTED CROWN. I'M TRYING TO AVOID MAYBE GETTING EVEN WORSE FEEDBACK FROM THE COUNCIL IF YOU GET TO THEM NEXT. AND SO MY EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN, UNFORTUNATELY, POOR RELATED TO PRIVATE STREETS AND THOSE BECOMING I THINK THE CITY WHETHER IT'S DOCS OR ENGINEERING OR THE COUNCIL IN GENERAL HAVING TO FUND OR WHETHER HOA'S CAN'T TAKE CARE OF THEM AND HAVE PROBLEMATIC ISSUES, I THINK IT WOULD BE ADVISABLE TO AVOID THAT. I'VE EVEN SEE WHERE THERE'S THIS HOSTILE TAKE OVER LATER AND LOTS OF MONEY BEING SPENT. SO IF WE CAN AVOID THAT, I THINK IT'D BE IDEAL. TO YOUR POINT THEY CAN SEE A LOT OF THESE STORM STRUCTURES AND GENERALLY ALL GOING TO THE SOUTH. I'M SURE THE INVERTED CROWN CREATES WHERE THERE'S FEW LESS DRAINAGE STRUCTURES, WHICH IS NICE FROM A COST PERSPECTIVE. IT LOOKS LIKE -- AND I DIDN'T SEE A LOT OF CRITICISM OR FEEDBACK I GET IN OPPOSITION TO THE NARROWER STREET AND FLUSH CURBS AND THINGS YOU SAW TRYING TO REBLICATE, SO PERHAPS THERE TO SAVE A FEW BUCKS, PERHAPS WE CAN GO BACK TO NORMAL CROWN, DRAINAGE STRUCTUES ON THE FLOW LINE OF THE GUTTER, IF YOU WILL. AND MAYBE THERE'S SOME COMPROMISE THERE. >> I WANT TO FOLLOW UP WITH THAT -- THANK YOU, BECAUSE I 100% AGREE WITH YOU ON THE INVERTED CROWN. EVERYTHING YOU'VE SAID IS SPOT ON. HAVING -- HAVING TO DEAL WITH THAT AND FIX INFRASTRUCTURE PROBLEMS THAT COME WITH PRIVATE STREETS WHEN THE HOAS CAN NO LONGER AFFORD THE MAINTENANCE ON IT, THEN IT BECOMES THE CITY'S PROBLEM, WHICH THEN BECOMES AN ISSUE. SO WHATEVER ROAD IS BUILT THERE, AND I'M THROWING IT OUT TO YOU GUYS, HOWEVER THAT ROAD IS BUILT, WHETHER IT'S PRIVATE -- AND AGAIN I'M NOT TRYING TO JUMP AROUND, BUT IN SECTION 8.2 IT'S THE RIGHT-OF- WAY DISCUSSION. THERE'S NOTHING IN THE PUD ABOUT WHETHER THAT'S A PRIVATE ROAD OR A PUBLIC ROAD. AND I WOULD LOVE TO SEE IT BE PUBLIC SO THAT -- OR HOWEVER IT'S DECIDED. IF IT'S GOING TO BE PRIVATE, THEN IT NEEDS TO BE BUILT TO CARMEL STANDARDS, WHATEVER THAT IS SO THAT WE'RE NOT ON THE HOOK 10, 15, 20 YEARS LATER TO REPAIR A ROAD THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN TO CARMEL STANDARDS. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? >> IT DOES. LET ME TOUCH ON BOTH COMMENTS THERE. >> THANK YOU. >> UNDERSTOOD THAT THE INVERTED CROWN IS NOT THE PREFERABLE STREET DESIGN BECAUSE FOR THOSE THAT AREN'T AS FAMILIAR ESSENTIALLY WHAT HAPPENS IS YOU HAVE ALL THE DRAINAGE RUNNING THROUGH THE CENTER LINE OF THE ROAD AND EVERYTHING KIND OF FLOWS TO THE MIDDLE INSTEAD OF OUT TOWARDS THE GUTTERS WHERE ALL THE TYPICAL INFRASTRUCTURE WOULD BE ON A PUBLIC STREET. SO THE REASON WHY WE DID THIS IS SO WE COULD HIT, YOU KNOW, THE 24-FOOT WIDTH, WHICH WAS SOMETHING WE TALKED ABOUT AT THE LAST COMMITTEE MEETING, WHICH WAS IMPORTANT. AND THEN WE TALKED ABOUT THE TREE LAWNS. SO THOSE ARE 6 FEET WIDE, AND SIDEWALKS, YOU HAVE THOSE ON BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET. SO IF WE WANTED TODAY GO BACK TO A TRADITIONAL DRAINAGE STREET DESIGN WHEREBY WE HAVE CURB AND GUTTER ON BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET, THE SITE JUST DOESN'T HAVE THE NORTH TO SOUTH SPACE TO PROVIDE THE DISTANCES FOR THESE ITEMS. SO WE CAN -- AND THAT WAS PART OF THE CHALLENGE. I THINK THE PRIORITIES WERE SET FOR US AT THE LAST MEETING. NOW IT'S, HEY, COME BACK AND SHOW US, COME BACK AND TELL US. SO NOW WE'RE HERE TO REPORT BACK ON THESE THINGS. WE KNOW THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME PUSH AND PULL AND EVERYTHING LIKE THAT. SO WHAT I WOULD SAY IS IF WE DON'T WANT TO DO THE INVERTED CROWN, WE CAN GO BACK. IT'S NOT NECESSARILY A COST SAVING MEASURE FOR US. IT WAS A SPACE SAVING MEASURE FOR US TO MAKE SURE WE COULD PROVIDE YOU WITH THE TREE LAWNS, WITH THE STREET TREES ON BOTH SIDES, WITH THE SIDEWALKS ON BOTH [00:45:02] SIDES. >> I DID WANT TO TRY AND -- FOR ME IT WAS JUST A SIMPLE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE STANDARDS WERE AND AVOIDING THAT. AND I TRULY APPRECIATE THE FACT YOU WENT BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD TO GIVE US THOSE STREET SCAPES WITH THE TWO SIDEWALKS AND THE ROAD. SO YOU HAVE MY FULL APPRECIATION ON THAT. I'M SORRY, JEFF, GO AHEAD. >> I'M NOT TRYING TO COMPARE THIS TO ANYWHERE ELSE BESIDES CARMEL, BUT THERE ARE OTHER COMMUNITIES OUT THERE THAT DO THE NARROWER LANES LIKE YOU SHOW, AND CALL IT THAT GUTTER PAN WHERE DRAINAGE WOULD RUN IN THE STREET UP AGAINST THE FACING CURB. SOMETIMES IT'S COINCIDENTAL. SO SOMETIMES THE GUTTER CAN BE WITHIN THE 11 1/2 FOOT LANE YOU'VE GOT. THAT'S SOMETHING YOU'VE GOT TO WORK WITH ENGINEERING ONTO MAKE SURE THERE'S SOMETHING THEY CAN GAIN A LEVEL OF COMFORT WITH BECAUSE IT'S CERTAINLY DIFFERENT THAN OTHER SUBDIVISION STREETS. KIND OF THE SKINNIER CROSS-SECTION TO GAIN THE GREEN SPACE, TO GAIN THE CONCRETE SIDEWALKS IS CERTAINLY A GOOD THING, AND MAYBE THERE'S JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE WORK WE CAN DO TO GET RID OF THE INVERTED CROWN THAT MIGHT BE A CONCERN AND STILL COME AWAY WITH A WIN FOR -- A WIN FOR ALL I HOPE. >> WE CAN LOOK AT THAT. AND I THINK WHAT I LEARNED OR WHAT I KNOW AS OF TODAY IS IF WE NEED -- WE WANTED TO HAVE A 24- FOOT WIDE TRAVEL WIDTH, IN ORDER TO DO THAT THIS IS THE DESIGN WITH THE FLUSH CURBS ON BOTH SIDES. IF WE WANTED TO GO BACK TO ANY TYPE OF CURB WHETHER IT BE CHAIR BACK OR ROLL OR SOMETHING, THAT WOULD EAT INTO THE 24- FOOT WIDTH THAT WAS DESIRED OR DISCUSSED AT THE LAST MEETING, SO WE'D HAVE TO FIGURE THAT OUT. AND IN ADDITION THAT 6- FOOT TREE LAWN WOULD PROBABLY BE REDUCED AS WELL. NOT SAYING WE COULDN'T HAVE THEM, BUT THEY MAY NOT BE 6 FEET WIDE. WE'RE HAPPY TO FIND THE BEST SOLUTION, WE'RE JUST CAUGHT BETWEEN A ROCK AND A HARD PLACE AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT -- PUT SOMETHING WE THOUGHT WAS ACCEPTABLE, GET FEEDBACK. >> TO YOUR POINT, REX, YOU'VE BEEN THROUGH LAND USE, SO I'M JUST TRYING TO AVOID REDOING THIS WHOLE THING SITTING IN LAND USE. I'D LIKE TO TRY AND NAIL IT DOWN HERE SO THAT WE HAVE -- WE HAVE PLENTY OF ENGINEERING EXPERTS THAT SIT ON LAND USE COMMITTEE. >> SURE. >> SO I'M TRYING TO HELP YOU AS WELL AVOID HAVING TO DO THIS ALL OVER AGAIN BECAUSE I CAN ALMOST GUARANTEE YOU WITHOUT HAVING NOT TALKED TO ONE SPECIFIC COUNSELOR, I KNOW ONE SPECIFIC COUNSELOR IS GOING TO HAVE AN ISSUE WITH AN INVERTED -- JUST TRYING TO AVOID THAT IF WE CAN TO HELP YOU AND HELP US. >> WE TOTALLY RESPECT THAT. THIS IS NOT COMBATIVE. I APPRECIATE ALL THE COMMENTS, AND WE GET IT. WE'RE JUST TRYING TO HELP FIND THE RIGHT SOLUTION. >> YOU KNOW, THIS WILL BE ASKED OF COUNCIL, BUT I'M JUST GOING TO ASK IT HERE. ALL THE CONVOLUTED THINGS WE'RE TRYING TO DO TO MAKE THIS FIT IT'S A NIGHTMARE, AND WHY DON'T YOU JUST TAKE SOME UNITS OUT? YOU WOULDN'T HAVE MUCH OF THE PROBLEMS, AND I THINK YOU CAN TAKE SOME OUT, AND YOU HAVE DONE THAT BEFORE IN THE PAST. WE DON'T HAVE TO COMMIT TONIGHT, BUT YOU COULD DO A REDESIGN HERE OF IT. SO MUCH OF THIS GOES AWAY. >> SURE. AND I CAN APPRECIATE THAT. AND THE ANSWER IS WE ALREADY HAVE TWICE. THERE WAS A BUILDING OUT ON ILLINOIS STREET WITH AN ALLEY, AND THEN THERE WAS ANOTHER BUILDING IN HERE, SO ALL THE THINGS THAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH, THIS IS -- THIS IS KIND OF WHAT I WOULD CALL THE THIRD ITERATION OF THIS PLAN. WE'VE ALREADY LOST A HANDFUL OF UNITS ACROSS TWO BUILDINGS, SO I HEAR YOU. I GET IT. AND I THINK WE'RE HAPPY TO CONTINUE TO WORK ON IT TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO -- >> OKAY THAT JUST WOULD BE MY INPUT. >> SURE. >> A LOT OF THIS GOES AWAY, AND I WOULD BE MORE FAVORABLE IF IT WASN'T -- WE WEREN'T WORKING SO HARD TO TRY TO GET THE TREES IN. THE STREETS ARE NARROW. WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT PARKING, EXTRA PARKING. JUST TWO MER UNIT. I WOULD APPRECIATE THAT, A GOOD SCRUB DOWN OF THIS. THANK YOU. >> WAS THAT A GOOD TRANSITION TO PARKING? I'LL GO AHEAD, OKAY. SO I'M GOING TO ECHO SOME OF SUE'S COMMENTS. AGAIN, I'M GOING TO GO BACK TO STUFF I'VE SAID AT THE PREVIOUS MEETING. I FEEL LIKE WE'RE TRYING TO SQUEEZE THIS DEVELOPMENT ON THE SITE AND BY DOING THAT -- OR IN ORDER TO DO THAT, WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE ALL THESE ADJUSTMENTS TO DRAINAGE AREAS, LANDSCAPE AREAS, TREE PRESERVATION AREAS. THE ONE [00:50:01] THING IF WE GO BACK TO THE ARCHITECTURE QUICKLY, ONE THING THAT GIVES ME PAUSE ABOUT THIS DESIGN IS -- AND YOU'VE REFERENCED THE UNION TOWNHOMES IN WEST FIELD AND A COUPLE OTHER DEVELOPMENTS. ALL THOSE DEVELOPMENTS I'VE SEEN HAVE THOSE GARAGES ON THE BACKSIDE AND THE FRONT SIDE OF THE HOUSE. AS WE'RE CREATING THESE INDUSTRIAL FRIENDLY NEIGHBORHOODS AND COMMUNITIES WHERE WE WANT PEOPLE TO LIVE AND ENJOY, I STRUGGLE WITH HAVING A FRONT FACADE OF ANY HOME OR ANY TOWNHOME PREDOMINANTLY DOMINATED BY A GARAGE DOOR. NOW, I UNDERSTAND IN THIS CASE, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE TRYING TO FIT THIS STREET IN AND GET THIS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET, BUT, AGAIN, I WOULD GO BACK TO THIS PROBABLY ISN'T THE RIGHT SITE FOR THIS TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT. I'M NOT SAYING I'M NOT IN FAVOR. I'M JUST SAYING I HAVE SERIOUS CONCERNS ABOUT THE DESIGN AS IT IS TODAY BECAUSE WHEN YOU REFERENCE SOME OF THE OTHER DEVELOPMENTS THEY'RE NOT SIMILAR TO THIS, IN MY OPINION. BECAUSE, AGAIN, GARAGE DOORS ON THE BACK. YOU'VE GOT THAT PEDESTRIAN FRIENDLY APPROACH. IT'S JUST A VERY DIFFERENT DESIGN THAN WHAT WE SEE HERE. SO RIGHT NOW THAT'S MY ONLY COMMENT. I JUST WANTED TO BRING THAT BACK UP. I DO ECHO SOME OF THE COMMENTS OF MY COLLEAGUES AS WELL. >> JONATHAN, I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO LOOK AT VILLAGE GREEN OVER AT MONAN AND 136 STREET ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE ROAD. THEY'RE A SIMILAR PRODUCT TO THIS AND THEY'VE BEEN HERE -- I THINK THOSE WERE BUILT IN 2006 MAYBE. IS THAT RIGHT, MIKE? VILLAGE GREEN BUILT IN 2006 MAYBE? YEAH, OFF OF SMOKY ROAD. ABOUT 2006. >> I THINK I'VE GETTING A COUGH AND A NOD ABOUT 2003. MAYBE CLOSER. >> WHAT WAS IT, 2003? >> EXCUSE THE LOUD GENTLEMAN IN YOU LOOK AT VILLAGE GREEN IT'S KIND OF ORIENTED IN THE SAME WAY WHERE THEY HAVE ALL THE TOWNHOUSES, ALL THE GARAGES FACE THE INTERIOR ON THE ROAD, AND WE ACTUALLY USE THAT AS AN EXAMPLE TO TRY AND GET THE ROAD TO A BETTER SIZE MINUS THE INVERTED CROWN. AND BEHIND -- YOU KNOW, BEHIND VILLAGE VILLAGE GREEN TO THE EAST ARE RESIDENTIAL HOMES THAT ARE OLD TOWN CARMEL, ALL OLD TOWN, AND THEN THE REST OF IT ARE KIND OF PATIO HOMES, AND THERE'S A BIG -- THERE'S ACTUALLY A NATURE PRESERVE THERE. SO, I MEAN, I DON'T THINK IT'S UNHEARD OF -- NOT TO PUSH BACK, BUT IT'S NOT UNHEARD OF TO SEE THAT TYPE OF INSULAR LOOK WITH THE GARAGES ON THE FRONT. PERSONALLY I DON'T LIKE IT EITHER, AND I DON'T KNOW IF NECESSARILY WE'RE TRYING TO FIT A ROUND PEG IN A SQUARE HOLE OR SQUARE -- HOWEVER THAT WORKS, BUT I'M NOT OPPOSED TO GARAGESGARAGES ON THE FRONT. THAT'S NOT A -- THAT'S NOT A I'M LOOKING AT TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WAYS AS A COUNCIL MEMBER TO TRY AND FIND MORE HOUSING UNITS. AND TO SUE'S POINT, IF WE CAN FIGURE OUT WAYS TO MAKE IT BETTER, WE SHOULD DO THAT. BUT THE GARAGE IS ON THE FRONT. THAT DOESN'T BOTHER ME, TOO. JUST AS A COUNTER POINT DOESN'T BOTHER ME TOO MUCH, AND I'D GO LOOK AT VILLAGE GREEN AND SEE WHAT YOU THINK. >> THAT'S A DIFFERENCE OF OPINION. I ME I DON'T LIKE SEEING IT ON THE FRONT FACADE. >> FOR ME I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE REAR ELEVATIONS FACING FORTE. I THINK THE SOUTH HAVE MORE SCREENING. I THINK THE LIMITED AMOUNT WE CAN SCREEN THE NORTH SIDE, I'M WORRIED ABOUT THE CONFERENCE ROOM VIEW AND JUST POTENTIALLY MAYBE WE DON'T NEED TO GO TO THE EXTENT OF HAVING DORMERS, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANYTHING ARCHITECTURALLY WE CAN DO ON THE REAR OF THE NORTHERN BUILDINGS. JUST THAT'S A MAJOR EMPLOYER IN THE AREA. IT'S GOING TO BE A FOCAL POINT FROM THAT SITE, SO ANYTHING WE CAN DO TO TRY TO DRESS UP THE REARS I THINK WOULD BE HELPFUL ESPECIALLY FOR PUTTING THE HVAC BACK THERE. IT'S GOING TO BE CLOSE, ABOUT 20 FEET FROM THE DRIVE THERE. >> YEAH, IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF WORK TO DO, SO LET ME JUST GO AHEAD AND SAY WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT THAT. IF YOU'RE GOING TO EXPLORE OTHER COMMUNITIES WHERE WE'VE BUILT TOWNHOMES ESPECIALLY ON THE FRONT LOAD TYPE OF CONVERSATION, PULTE DEVELOPED A TOWNHOME COMMUNITY AT THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF 161ST AND 31. IT'S CALLED THE RETREAT ON THE MONAN. IT ACTUALLY -- THE MONAN BISECTS [00:55:04] THE SITE. SO THE WESTERN SIDE IS VERY SIMILAR TO THIS. IT'S A SINGLE CUL-DE- SAC, TOWNHOMES ON BOTH SIDES. IT GETS TO THE END, THERE'S NOT TOWNHOMES ON ONE SIDE, THAT KIND OF THING. ONE THING YOU'LL NOTE THERE IS WHILE THE FLAVOR OF THE COLOR PACKAGE WAS DIFFERENT, WE DID HAVE UNIT 12 LET'S CALL IT WAS THE TAN COLOR SCHEME. UNIT 2 HOLDING THE NAVY BLUEBLUE COLOR THAT WAS ON THE FRONT ELEVATION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, SO WE CAN FIGURE OUT A WAY MAYBE TO PULL IN COLOR OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT AS A WAY TO DIFFERENTIATE OR ENHANCE THE REAR ELEVATION. >> SO A BIG WALL OF WHITE OR WHATEVER IT IS. >> WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT THAT AND NEXT TIME WE COME BACK IN FRONT OF YOU WE'LL HAVE AS AN OPTION OR VISUAL OR SOMETHING. >> A LOT OF TIMES I DON'T THINK IT'S NECESSARY WHERE YOU HAVE A LOT OF TREES, BUT IT'S AN AFORETHOUGHT. AND HERE IT WOULD BE A FOCAL POINT GENERALLY. >> I UNDERSTAND THAT. >> AS IT'S DESIGNED RIGHT NOW, THE NORTHERN UNITS, HOW MUCH BACKYARD SPACE IS THERE? >> FROM THE EDGE OF THE UNIT -- THIS IS KIND OF HARD TO SEE. WE CAN PROVIDE A BLOW UP AT THE NEXT MEETING. THE EDGE OF THE UNIT IS HERE, AND FROM THE FIRST LEVEL THERE WOULD BE A DOOR THAT WOULD HAVE A PATIO SPACE, A CONCRETE PATIO, AND THE SECOND FLOOR OF THE UNITS IS WHERE YOU'D HAVE, LIKE, A OFF THE SECOND FLOOR OF THE UNIT. THAT'S PROBABLY 8 FEET DEEP OFF THE EDGE OF THE UNIT, AND THAT'S WHERE THAT 20 FEET STARTS. SO EDGE OF THE BUILDING CLOSER TO 30 FEET TO THE PROPERTY LINE. EDGE OF THAT POT YO OR DECK SPACE, 20. >> I'M CURIOUS, THE CUL-DE- SAC IS THERE -- WILL THAT BE PARKABLE SPACE? IS THAT THE INTENT? NO PARKING AT ALL? >> SO WHAT WE HAVE IS IN THIS SPACE HERE YOU'D HAVE TEN PARKING SPACES FOR GUEST PARKING. YEAH, THERE WOULD BE NO STREET PARKING DUE TO THE CROSS-SECTION OF THE ROAD, AND WE WOULD DO THAT ANYWAY BECAUSE ALL THE GARAGES -- I'M SORRY, ALL THE DRIVEWAYS WOULD ACCESS -- THERE'S NOWHERE TO PARK ALONG THE STREET ANYWAY TO CAUSE ANY PROBLEMS. THAT'S WHERE WE WOULD PUT THE GUEST PARKING SPACES. SO PARKING OVERALL, TWO IN THE GARAGE, TWO IN THE DRIVEWAY BECAUSE WE'RE MAKING THE FRONT SETBACK DEEP ENOUGH TO MAKE SURE THERE CAN BE A CAR OVERHANGING THE SIDEWALK AND THEN TEN GUEST PARKING SPACES. SO THE STANDARD IN THE CODE IS ONE SPACE PER SEVEN UNITS. THIS SITE PLAN HAS 27 UNITS ON IT, SO ROUND UP. CALL IT FOUR -- NO, 28 DIVIDED BY 7 IS 4. YEAH, THERE YOU GO. THAT'S MATH AT THE PODIUM FOR YOU. SO THAT WOULD BE FOUR REQUIRED SPACES. SO WE'RE SAYING THERE'S TEN OFF STREET SPACES. >> THANK YOU. AND RY FOR THE OVERSIGHT ON THAT. I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN. >> IT WAS NEXT ON THE LIST, SO YOU'RE GOING IN LINE WITH THE COMMENTS. I THINK YOU WERE JUST TRYING TO SPEED US UP. >> THINGS. NUMBER FIVE ON THE STAFF COMMENTS WAS THIS WAS ABOUT PARKING, ADD THE TEXT. THE SITE PLAN IS ALREADY BAKED IN. WE CAN ADD THE TEXT, HEY, THERE CAN BE A MINIMUM OF TEN GUEST PARKING SHOWN EASY. SIX, ADDING TEXT IN THE PUD ABOUT ONLY HAVING ONE VEHICULAR ACCESS POINT INSTEAD OF THE TWO REQUIRED WE CAN DO THAT, TWO. SEVEN, THIS IS THE PUBLIC STREET, THE INVERTED CROWN COMMENT, I THINK WE DISCUSSED THAT AT NAUSEAM. THAT'S SOMETHING WE'LL COME BACK WITH DIFFERENT INFORMATION ON, AND LASTLY THE OPEN SPACE PLAN. SO THREW SOMETHING TOGETHER QUICK FOR THE MEETING TONIGHT AND WOULD CERTAINLY PROVIDE THIS TO ENGINEERING -- I'M SORRY, URBAN FORESTRY, SO THEY CAN SIGN OFF ON IT. I KNOW THERE'S BEEN VARIOUS ITERATIONS WHETHER IT'S COLORS OR HATCHING OR WHAT NOT. THAT'S ALL THE STAFF COMMENTS. IF THERE'S ANY GENERAL COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS. >> STAFF, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU'D LIKE TO ADD? YOU REALLY DIDN'T GIVE A REPORT. >> WELL, I WAS LOOKING THROUGH SOME OF THE OTHER PROJECT DOCS COMMENTS FROM THE OTHER DEPARTMENTS, AND ONE THAT KIND OF STUCK IN THERE FROM OUR ACTIVE TRANSPORTATION COORDINATORS REGARDING THE BIKE PARKING AND JUST TO TIGHTEN UP THAT WORDING AGAIN. THE EASIEST THING I WOULD WE'D LIKE TO SEE IS JUST COMPLY. THEY'RE ALREADY SHOWING BIKE PARKING WHICH IS GREAT, BUT JUST WANT TO GET THAT TEXT IN THE PUD THAT JUST REQUIRES IT TO MEET THE STANDARDS [01:00:02] WHICH I DON'T THINK WOULD INCREASE THE NUMBER OR ANYTHING YOU'RE PROPOSING ALREADY, BUT IT WOULD JUST MAKE IT MORE CLEAR WHEN THE TIME COMES FOR DUP. >> WE CAN DO THAT. >> THANK YOU. AND SOUNDS LIKE THEY CAN MAKE CHANGES AND THERE'S STILL OTHER WORK THEY HAVE TO DO. OUR RECOMMENDATION FROM THE PROJECT REPORT WAS GIVE THEM MORE TIME TO CONTINUE THIS TO THE NEXT COMMITTEE SO THEY CAN ITEMS, MAKE SURE EVERYTHING -- ALL THE T'S ARE CROSSED AND I'S ARE DOTTED AND WE'RE READY TO MAKE A VOTE AT THAT POINT. THANK YOU. >> IS THERE ANYTHING IN THE PUD ON PARENTALS? >> I DON'T THINK TERE IS. >> OKAY. SO WE NEED TO -- DO YOU HAVE A STATEMENT ON THAT? BECAUSE WE CAN DEFINITELY HAVE SOMETHING WRITTEN INTO THE PUD. >> BEFORE YOU ANSWER THAT -- BEFORE YOU ANSWER THAT IN THE PUD THE ONLY THING THAT'S IN THERE IS THE SHORT- TERM RENTAL BAN, WHICH THANK YOU VERY MUCH, I APPRECIATE THAT. SO THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THAT UP BECAUSE NORMALLY I WOULD START ALL THESE S WITH THE RENTAL RESTRICTIONS. SO THERE'S NO LANGUAGE IN THERE WHATSOEVER THAT EVEN REFERENCES THE CARMEL'S NEW ORDINANCE THAT'S IN THERE, SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT IN THERE IF POSSIBLE. AND NUMBER TWO, I'D ALSO LIKE TO SEE JUST AS A MATTER OF RECORD I'D LIKE TO SEE PERCENTAGES PUT IN TO -- IF IT'S POSSIBLE, JOHN. YOU'RE LOOKING AT ME LIKE THE DEER IN THE HEADLIGHTS -- I'M KIDDING. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SPECIFICALLY THE LANGUAGE OF A CAP IN THERE AS WELL JUST IN CASE. I WOULD LOVE A ZERO, BUT THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A PERCENTAGE OF RENTALS -- MAXIMUM RENTALS IN THAT -- IN THIS PUD, AND I ONLY SAY THAT BECAUSE OF ITS LOCATION. IT WOULD -- I DON'T WANT THIS TO BECOME A RENTAL APARTMENT COMMUNITY. I JUST DON'T WANT TO SEE THAT, AND THIS AREA DOES LEND ITSELF TO THAT. I'D RATHER IT BE OWNED OR OCCUPIED. SO IF WE CAN PUT SOME LANGUAGE INTO THAT REFERENCING CARMEL'S ORDINANCE AND THEN ON TOP OF THAT PUTTING A PERCENTAGE INTO THE ORDINANCE ITSELF, THE PUD ITSELF. >> YEAH, WE'RE HAPPY TO ADSOME LANGUAGE AND THE REASON -- FULL TRANSPARENCY THE REASON WHY WE DIDN'T IS THE CITYCITY THEIR APPROVED ORDINANCE, SO WE DIDN'T WANT TO BE DUPLICATIVE OF THAT OR CAUSE THAT TYPE OF LANGUAGE. >> WE'D LIKE IT SPELLED OUT A LITTLE MORE IN THIS PUD, JUST WHATEVER IT'S GOING TO BE THAT'D BE GREAT. THE SAME THING WITH THE GARAGES. ARE THEY GOING TO BE SO THAT YOU PARK THE CARS IN THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE STILL LIMITED ON THE PARKING? OR IS THAT IN THE PUD? BECAUSE I DIDN'T SEE IT WHERE IT'S NOT LIVABLE SPACE. >> NO, THE GARAGES WOULD NOT HAVE LIVABLE SPACE. IT WOULD BE WHAT WE WOULD ALL BELIEVE TO BE TYPICAL GARAGE, BUT THEY WOULD BE SIZED TO HOUSE VEHICLES, YES. >> OKAY, CAN YOU PUT THAT COMMITMENT IN? >> IT'S IN THE PUD DIRECTLY, BUT WE'LL MAKE IT EXPLICIT INDIRECTLY BECAUSE IT REQUIRES FOUR PARKING SPACES, TWO IN THE GARAGE, TWO IN THE DRIVEWAY. THERE IS NO OTHER SPACE, BUT WE'LL MAKE IT EXPLICIT TO YOUR POINT. >> AND OBVIOUSLY, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S NOW OR WHEN IT COMES BACK FOR ADLS, BUT THE TEN SPACES, THEY CAN'T BE PERMANENT -- YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING FOR THAT BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE WILL HAVE ADDITIONAL CARS AND PARK THERE, AND THAT'LL BE THEIR FIFTH PARKING, BUT WE CAN MAKE MODIFICATIONS WHEN IT COMES IN ADLS ON THOSE KIND OF THINGS, CORRECT? >> YES, YOU CAN REQUEST AS PARKING SIGNAGE OR SOMETHING FOR THOSE SPOTS. >> ONE MORE QUESTION. HEY, JOHN, SOMETHING YOU JUST SAID. YOU SAID THE UDO REQUIRES FOUR PARKING SPACES? >> YES. >> FOR THE PUD. >> NOT THE UDO, THE PUD. SECTION 4.6 SAYS TWO. JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE CLEAR. DOES ANY OF THAT NEED TO BE ACCESSIBLE PARKING OR -- >> 4. 6A, REGULAR PARKING. >> PROBABLY PER THE FEDERAL STANDARDS, THE ADA STANDARDS. >> WE'VE HAD LANGUAGE BEFORE THAT SAYS THERE SHALL BE FOUR OFF STREET PARKING SPACES PER UNIT AS IDENTIFIED WITH TWO IN THE GARGE AND TWO IN THE DRIVEWAY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. WE CAN -- SO THE OTHER TEXT CHANGES THAT ARE MADE, WE CAN UPDATE THAT TO REFLECT THE CONVERSATION WE'VE HAD THIS EVENING. >> I SAID ONE QUICK QUESTION. I DON'T KNOW WHO DETERMINES [01:05:02] THIS, WHO MEASURES THIS, WHAT IS REQUIRED LIKE FROM THE ROAD NOISE STANDPOINT. I KNOW IT TALKS ABOUT THE END UNIT HAVING ADDITIONAL SOUNDPROOFING. I'M NOT SURE HOW MUCH ROAD NOISE IS CREATED AND HOW FAR AWAY YOU NEED TO BE TO ANTICIPATE THAT. THAT'D BE CONCERN IF I WAS PURCHASING A UNIT AND ANY OF THE ONES EVEN TO THE WEST OF THE EASTERN UNIT, HOW LOUD IT WOULD BE IN A UNIT STILL. THAT'S A MAJOR -- I MEAN 70 TO 80 MILES AN HOUR ON THERE. >> GOOD QUESTION. SO WE DID TAKE A LOOK AT THAT, AND I DON'T REMEMBER THE NUMBER. WE'VE BEEN UP HERE FOR AN HOUR OR 70 MINUTES ALREADY, AND I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT. THE CONVERSATION WE'LL HAVE THE NEXT MEETING IS THE TOP OF THE ROAD OF 31 IS SOMETHING LIKE 22 FEET HIGHER THAN THE GRADE OF OUR SITE. SO WITH THE UNIT ONLY BEING 35 FEET, I BELIEVE, AND THAT'S TO THE MIDPOINT OF THE ROOF, YOU'RE REALLY NOT GOING TO HAVE THAT MUCH HABITABLE SPACE THAT'S GOING TO BE AT OR ABOVE WHERE THE ROADWAY IS, SO THE SOUNDPROOFING MEASURES WE'RE MAKING IN, WE FEEL THAT'S ADEQUATE GIVEN THE HEIGHT SEPARATION WHERE THE UNITS ARE VERSUS WHERE THE ROADS AND CARS ARE GOING TO BE. >> IS THAT JUST ON THE EASTERN BUILDING THAT YOU'RE DOING ADDITIONAL SOUNDPROOFING? >> NO, WE WOULD DO THAT THROUGHOUT. >> OKAY, GOT IT. >> WE TRY NOT TO BUILD ONE UNIT DIFFERENT THAN THE OTHER. >> SO WE WOULD -- IF IT'S A HIGHER INSULATION RATING, IT'S GOING ALL THE WAY THROUGH. IF IT'S A HIGHER X, Y, Z, THAT'S WHERE IT IS. >> COOL. THANKS. >> SUE SAID DON'T LET REX TALK. >> I THINK THIS IS THE PROBLEM NOW WITH THIS FORMAT FOR COMMITTEE BECAUSE YOU'D BE SITTING DOWN AT A TABLE IN THE OLD DAYS AS JOHN KNOWS, AND YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO STAND THE WHOLE TIME. >> PERSONAL PLUG I LOVE THE OTHER ROOM. >> ME TOO. I MISS IT DEARLY. >> TRUST ME, I DON'T DISAGREE WITH YOU. QUICKLY AGAIN I WAS LOOKING AT -- I REREAD THE PUD, AND IN SECTION 9. 4 IT TALKS ABOUT THE BZA LANGUAGE AND GET VARIANCES, SO ARE THERE ANY SPECIFIC VARIANCES YOU'RE THINKING RIGHT OFF THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD RIGHT NOW YOU'RE THINKING YOU'RE LOOKING TO GET? ANY BIG SURPRISES? >> NONE THAT WE ARE AWARE OF AT THIS POINT. >> ALL THE LANGUAGE OF THE PUD DOES AND YOU'LL FIND IT IN ALL OF THEM IT JUST REFERENCES BACK THE ABILITY FOR SOMEBODY TO -- THEY HAVE DUE PROCESS UNDER THE BZA PROVISIONS UNDER THE UDO SO WE HAVE THE SAME CONDITIONS IN THE COMMUNITY EVEN THOUGH IT'S A PUD. >> THANK YOU, JOHN. >> IT MAY BECOME AN ISSUE. IF IT IS, WE'LL MODIFY IT, WRITE IT UP. >> OKAY, IF THERE AREN'T ANY QUESTIONS, WE'LL JUST MOVE THIS FORWARD. WHAT IS THE DATE? IT'S IN JANUARY, ISN'T IT? JANUARY, I DON'T KNOW. IT'S THE FIRST TUESDAY IN JANUARY. >> THE 6TH. >> OKAY, I'M SORRY. WE'LL SEE YOU JANUARY 6TH. I'M ASKING ALSO YOU LOOK ON THAT BUFFER AND NOT COME BACK WITH THREE, BUT COME BACK WITH SOMETHING THAT'S -- >> AND SUE, SOMETHING THAT MIGHT HELP WITH THAT IS MAYBE AN EXHIBIT. WE TALKED ABOUT SHOWING THE DIMENSIONS THAT YOU'RE WORKING WITH AND, YOU KNOW, HOW WIDE OR HOW DEEP THOSE TOWNHOME UNITS ARE, AND THEN WE CAN SEE HOW EVERYONE LAYS OUT ON THE SITE PLAN FOR HOW MUCH ROOM THEY HAVE. >> SUE, CAN I JUST SAY SAY GOOD-BYE TO EVERYBODY? >> YES, YOU CAN SAY. >> SO I JUST WANT TO SAY TO ALL OF YOU IT'S BEEN A PLEASURE WORKING WITH ALL OF YOU. I HAVE ONE MORE MEETING WITH PLANNING COMMISSION, SO I WON'T BE HERE FOR THE NEXT COMMITTEE MEETING, BUT I'LL BE SURE TO FORWARD MY INFORMATION ONTO WHICHEVER COUNCIL REPRESENTATIVE REPLACES ME, BUT I JUST WANT TO SAY IT WAS A REAL PLEASURE WORKING WITH ALL OF YOU, AND I'LL SEE YOU IN LAND USE. >> THANK YOU, EVERYONE FOR YOUR TIME. HAVE A GOOD EVENING. THANKS FOR BEING HERE. >> THANK YOU. * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.