[A. Call Meeting to Order]
[B. Pledge of Allegiance]
[00:00:17]
MEETING, PLEASE JOIN US IN RECITING THE PLEDGE OF
ALLEGIANCE. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.
[C. Roll Call]
SECRETARY, WILL YOU PLEASE CALL THE ROLL?>> JONATHAN BLAKE, HEATHER CAMPAGNA, JEFF HILL, SUE WESTERMEIER , DEBBIE BUCKLER , MARK ADAIR?
[D. Declaration of Quorum]
[E. Approval of Minutes]
>> PRESENT. >> THANK YOU, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF APPROVING THE NOVEMBER MINUTES, PLEASE SAY AYE , AND HE OPPOSED? THEY ARE APPROVED, BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO THE LEGAL
[Additional Item]
COUNSEL REPORT, I WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE OUR FABULOUS CITY COUNCIL REPRESENTATIVE, SHANNON MINNAAR, THIS IS HER LAST REGULAR PLANT COMMISSION MEETING, YOU HAVE BEEN AN OUTSTANDING CITY COUNCIL REPRESENTATIVE, REALLY ONE OF THE BEST, WE ARE SO APPRECIATIVE OF YOU AND WE HAVE ONE MORE MEETING WITH HER, SHE'S GOING TO BE AT THE COMMITTEE MEETING IN JANUARY BUT HER TERM ROLLS OFF AND WE ARE GOING TO MISS YOU HERE AND WE KNOW YOU ARE STILL GOING TO BE A FRIEND OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION, SO THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALL OF YOUR SERVICE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE WILL MOVE ON ON THE AGENDA ,[G. Reports, Announcements & Department Concerns]
COMMUNICATIONS BILLS, EXPENDITURES AND LEGAL COUNSEL'S REPORT, I WILL TURN IT OVER TO THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT.>> WE HAVE NOTHING FROM THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, WE WILL GO TO ANNOUNCEMENTS AND
DEPARTMENT CONCERNS. RACHEL? >> THANK YOU, JUST ONE IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMET FROM THE UPDATED COMMITTEE MEETING, THE TOWNHOME COMMITTEE MEETING, IT IS SCHEDULED AGAIN FOR JANUARY 26, AND WE ALSO HAVE THE UPDATED RULES AND PROCEDURE BY THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE SO I BELIEVE YOU ALL HAVE TO VOTE ON THAT.
>> WE WILL TAKE A VOTE AND AS A REFRESHER, THERE WAS REALLY JUST TWO CHANGES, DO YOU WANT TO SUMMARIZE THOSE CHANGES?
>> THE OVERALL CHANGE WAS THAT THE MEETINGS WERE SET FOR 6:00 P.M. IN CARMEL CITY HALL, IT IS NOW SET FOR A TIME OF WHATEVER THE MAJORITY OF PLANNIN COMMISSION DECIDES, OR THE
COMMITTEE. >> AND JUST ONE OTHER SMALL CHANGE THAT WAS IN SECTION 1, IT USED TO SAY YOU MAY ADOPT FINDINGS AND FACTS, BUT THERE HAS BEEN A STATUTE CHANGE, WE ARE REQUIRED TO ALSO ADOPT SECOND CHANGES, SO WITH THOSE TWO CHANGES, I WILL TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE.
>> I MOVE THAT WE APPROVE AS AMENDED.
>> SECOND. >> THANK YOU, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF ADOPTING THE REVISED PROCEDURE, PLEASE SAY AYE , ANY OPPOSED? THE NEW RULE IS ADOPTED, THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS DRAFT. WITH THAT WE ARE GOING TO MOVE ONTO THE PUBLIC HEARING PORTION OF THE MEETING AND FOR ANYBODY HERE THAT IS YOUR FIRST TIME, THE RULES AND PROCEDURE ARE AS FOLLOWS, WE WILL HAVE 15 MINUTES TO PRESENT AND AFTER THAT I WILL OPEN IT UP FOR PUBLIC COMMENT, THE PETITIONER WILL HAVE FIVE MINUTES TO OFFER ANY REBUTTAL COMMENTS, WE WILL TURN IT OVER TO THE DEPARTMENT STAFF, UPON CONCLUSION OF THE DEPARTMENT STAFF COMMENTS, THE PUBLIC HEARING PORTION OF THE MEETING IS CLOSED AND I WILL TURN IT OVER TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBERS FOR OUR DISCUSSION. WITH THAT, WE HAVE TWO DOCKETS TONIGHT, DOCKET NUMBER 2025-0197 AMENDMENT, GREENHOUSE COTTAGES AMENDMENT, DOCKET NUMBER 2025-00198, PUD, THE APPLICANT SEEKS PUD AMENDMENT AND REZONE FOR AN EXPANSION OF THE SENIOR CARE DEVELOPMENT, THE PROPERTY IS 4.76 ACRES, LOCATED AT 616 GREENHOUSE WAY AND IT IS ZONED PUD COTTAGES OF CARMEL , THE NEW
[00:05:05]
PROPERTY IS 1.8 ACRES, LOCATED AT 24 EAST CITY CENTER DRIVE, IT IS FILED BY KYLE OF DENTON ON BEHALF OF CARMEL HEALTH LLC,[3. Docket No. PZ-2025- 00199 DP/ADLS: Restoracy of Carmel]
[Items 1 & 2]
THERE IS A THIRD DOCKET, THAT HAS BEEN TABLED UNTIL JANUARY SO WE ARE JUST HEARING THE AMENDMENT AND THE PUD SO I WILL TURN IT OVER TO THE PETITIONER, KYLE IF YOU COULD GO AHEAD ANDPRESENT. >> THANK YOU FOR THE INTRODUCTION, AGAIN MY NAME IS KYLE, FROM THE LAW FIRM IN INDIANAPOLIS, THANK YOU MEMBERS OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION FOR YOUR TIME THIS EVENING, AS OFFERED IN THE INTRODUCTORY COMMENTS, I'M HERE ON BEHALF OF MY CLIMATE -- CLIENT, AND JOINING ME THIS EVENING IS MATT HOUSTON, FOUNDER OF THE RESTORE SAFE CARMEL WITH HIS BUSINESS PARTNER, ALSO WITH ME THIS EVENING AS MY COLLEAGUE AND LAND PLANNER, SUZANNE BAKER AND PROJECT INTO -- ENGINEER. I LOOK FORWARD TO OUR DIALOGUE THIS EVENING, AS ALWAYS WE REALLY APPRECIATE THE DIALOGUE COLLABORATION AND INPUT THAT CARMEL STAFF AND OTHERS HAVE OFFERED, SO THANK YOU TO THEM AS WE COULDN'T BE HERE THIS EVENING WITHOUT THEIR INPUT TODAY. THE RESTORE THE CITY OF CARMEL EXISTED FOR MANY YEARS BUT MY CLIENT PURCHASED THE FACILITY AT THE END OF 2022, IT INCLUDES 72 SKILLED NURSING HOMES , SKILLED NURSING FACILITY BEDS AND A COLLECTION OF SIX HOMES, EXCUSE ME. THE PETITIONS BEFORE YOU TONIGHT BEFORE THE OPPORTUNITY OF RESTORE CITY OF CARMEL'S VISION TO EXPAND AND OFFER NURSING BEDS TO THE CITY OF CARMEL , FALLING IN LINE WITH THE CARMEL VISION, HAS OF PLAN, IT'S ORDINANCE, AND AGING IN PLACE GOALS FOR THE CITY OF CARMEL . THE PETITION BEFORE YOU AND THE SITE PLAN ITSELF WILL GIVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO ADD TWO SKILLED NURSING COTTAGES, EACH INCLUDING 12 ADDITIONAL BEDS.
THESE SKILLED NURSING COTTAGES ARE UNLIKE ANY SKILLED NURSING FACILITIES THAT YOU TYPICALLY WILL SEE IN AN INSTITUTIONAL OFFERING, THE OFFERING THAT MATT AND HIS TEAM HAVE CREATED FALLS IN LINE WITH WHAT IS CALLED THE SMALL HOME COTTAGE CONCEPT.
THERE IS A MORATORIUM IN THE STATE OF INDIANA FOR NEW SKILLED NURSING BEDS. THAT MORATORIUM HAS A UNIQUE EXCEPTION, THAT EXCEPTION IS THE ADDITION OF NEW PERMITTING, NEW LICENSING FOR THESE BEDS AS AFFORDED TO THE CITY'S SMALL HOME COTTAGES AND IS ONLY A DISCRETE AMOUNT OF PERMITS EACH YEAR AND ONLY SO MANY CAN BE OFFERED TO EACH INDIVIDUAL OPERATOR EACH YEAR.
MATT AND HIS TEAM ACTUALLY OWN AND OPERATE THE VAST MAJORITY OF SKILLED NURSING SMALL HOME CONCEPTS IN THE STATE OF INDIANA WITH THE RESTORE THE CITY OF CARMEL , AND WHAT WE HAVE FOUND IS THAT THERE IS A GREAT NEED IN THE STATE OF INDIANA AND HAMILTON COUNTY AND THE CITY OF CARMEL TO PREPARE FOR THE IMPENDING SILVER TSUNAMI THAT IS THE AGING IN PLACE OF THE BABY BOOMER GENERATION, THAT NEED IS GREAT TO THE TUNE OF OVER 180 SKILLED NURSING BEDS PER YEAR NEEDED IN JUST HAMILTON COUNTY.
THE WAITLIST IS EXPENSIVE AT ALL OF MATT'S FACILITIES AND MATT AND HIS TEAM JUST WANT TO BE A SMALL PORTION OF THE SOLUTION, A SOLUTION THAT IS NEEDED ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS BY THEIR RESIDENCE TO ADD ADDITIONAL SKILLED NURSING FACILITY BEDS HERE, AS I NOTED, TWO ADDITIONAL COTTAGES THAT WOULD MIRROR THE SIX EXISTING COTTAGES AND OFFER 24 NEW LICENSING BEDS. AT THIS FACILITY. THIS IS NOT A CREATION OF A NEW PRODUCT, THIS IS A REPLICATION OF THE PRODUCT THAT EXISTS, AND ALWAYS PLEASED TO HEAR RESIDENTS OF CARMEL , INDIVIDUAL CLIENTS OF MINE, NEIGHBORS OF THIS COMMUNITY COMMENT TO ME ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCE DRIVING BY THIS FACILITY, THEY WILL DRIVE BY AND THEY WILL WONDER WHAT SORT OF MULTIFAMILY PRODUCT IS THERE, WHAT ARE THESE HOMES, WHO LIVES THERE? AND THEY ARE SURPRISED TO FIND OUT THAT THIS IS ACTUALLY A SKILLED NURSING FACILITY THAT THEIR LOVED ONES CAN MOVE INTO BECAUSE REALLY THE DYNAMIC OF THIS ENVIRONMENT, IT IS AN INSULATED ENVIRONMENT WITH
[00:10:03]
GREENHOUSE WAY BEING THE ONLY ENTRYWAY TO THE EXISTING FACILITY AND THE IDEA AND SCOPE OF THIS EXPANSION REALLY IS TO KEEP THAT INSULATED ENVIRONMENT AT A SAFE STAY FOR VISITORS AND MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS, DELIVERIES AND THE LIKE, KEEP THAT INSULATED ENVIRONMENT SO THAT WE JUST SEE ONE EXTENSION OF THE EXISTING ROADWAY THAT IS GREENHOUSE WAY TO THE EAST ONTO THIS NEW SITE. AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, WE HAVE WORKED HAND IN HAND WITH MIKE AND RACHEL AS WELL AS THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT OF CARMEL TO CREATE A SITE PLAN THAT REALLY WORKS THE BEST FOR THE RESTORE THE CITY OF CARMEL BUT ALSO UNDERSTANDS AND APPRECIATES AND RECOGNIZES THE NEIGHBORS TO THE EAST AS WELL AS THE PLANS TO EXTEND RICHLAND AVENUE FROM THE NORTH TO CITY CENTER DRIVE HERE. THIS SITE PLAN HAS MATURED OVER A PROCESS AND DIALOGUE THAT HAS OCCURRED OVER TWO YEARS NOW, ORIGINALLY THE INTENTION OF THE PLAN WAS TO HAVE TWO SKILLED NURSING COTTAGES AND ACTUALLY AN ASSISTED LIVING STRUCTURE, REALLY WHAT WE HEARD FROM THE DIALOGUE WITH STAFF AND ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT WAS THAT THE PLANS TO BRING RICHLAND AVENUE SOUTH DOWN AND CONNECT TO THE DRIVE WOULDN'T AFFORD US REALLY AS MUCH FLEXIBILITY AS WE WANTED IN OUR SITE PLAN AND WE NEEDED TO REACT TO THAT. SO ACTUALLY THE FIRST SITE PLAN WE HAD HERE WAS A DRIVE AND COMPLETING A U-SHAPED WITH THE EXISTING DRIVE ON THE RESIDENTIAL SIDE AND THE EXISTING DRIVE TO THE U-SHAPED AND EXIT ONLY ON THE CITY CENTER DRIVE. THE FEEDBACK THAT WE HAD ON THAT IS REALLY FROM A SAFETY PERSPECTIVE, PARTICULARLY AS THE ROAD CURVES AT THAT POINT HERE, THIS CURVE HERE, REALLY WOULDN'T FACILITATE AS GREAT OF A SAFE EXIT POINT THERE, PARTICULARLY GIVEN VEHICLES TRAVELING WEST DOWN THE ROAD. PERHAPS EVEN RESIDENCE OR LOVED ONES TURNING INTO THE COMMUNITY ON EXIT ONLY. SO AGAIN, THE SITE PLAN MATURED AND WE CREATED ANOTHER SITE PLAN THAT HAD RICHLAND AVENUE COMING FROM THE SOUTH TYING INTO THIS ACCESS DRIVE AND WE SAW A DICHOTOMY OF AN UNSAFE SCENARIO WHERE PERHAPS SCHOOL BUS TRAFFIC, LOCAL VISITOR TRAFFIC AND THE LIKE REALLY NOT CONNECTING WELL WITH THE LOCAL TRAFFIC AFFORDED TO THE RESTORE THE CITY OF CARMEL . WE WENT BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD AND CREATED A DIFFERENT SITE PLAN THAT HAD SORT OF A P-SHAPE TO CREATE A SAFE PLACE FOR MEDICAL PROVIDERS AND RESIDENTS, WE DIDN'T AFFORD MUCH OPPORTUNITY FROM RICHLAND HAVING TO COME FROM THE SOUTH AND THAT CONNECTIVITY POINT, WHETHER THAT BE A ROUNDABOUT, THERE HAS BEEN MANY DISCUSSIONS AT COUNCIL LEVEL, THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT, WHAT THAT IS LIKE AND THE STAFF REPORT MENTIONS THE POSSIBILITY OF A ROUNDABOUT CONNECTIVITY HERE. WE WANTED TO AFFORD CARMEL AND ITS FUTURE CONNECTIVITY PLAN, REALLY THE FLEXIBILITY AFFORDED HERE WITH THIS SITE PLAN THAT WE GOT RID OF THE ASSISTED-LIVING OF ELEMENT OF THE FACILITY, LIMITED TO THESE TWO COTTAGES AND AGAIN, THIS WOULD BE AN EXACT REPLICA AND OF THE OTHER SIX COTTAGES, A GREAT OPEN AREA FOR LIKELY SOME RETENTION, SOME OPEN SPACE PRESERVING AND RESERVING OF THE EXISTING WOODED AREA, CREATING THAT BUFFER ZONE. OF COURSE THERE IS A TRAIL ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE ROAD HERE, THAT ADDITIONAL RIGHT-OF-WAY BEING AVAILABLE FOR THAT TRAIL AND MAKING SURE THAT THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT SETBACK FROM THE ROAD AND THE TRAIL TO THE SOUTHERN BOUNDARY OF THE NEW COTTAGE HERE. I PROVIDE THIS AS JUST ADDITIONAL CONTEXT FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION, AS I SAID THIS HAS BEEN AN EXERCISE, REALLY UPWARDS OF TWO YEARS DESIGNING AND REDESIGNING. THE REASON WHY THERE'S TWO ORDINANCES IN FRONT OF YOU, ONE BEING THE AMENDMENT TO THE EXISTING ORDINANCE AND ONE BEING A NEW ORDINANCE AGAIN IN CONSULTATION WITH RACHEL AND MIKE, WE WANTED TO CREATE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO A MINOR AMENDMENT TO THE EXISTING GREENHOUSE ORDINANCE, THAT WAS THE ORDINANCE PRESENTED IN 2014 BY JEFF LANGSTON, ANDREW GREENWOOD AND OTHERS OF THAT DEVELOPMENT TEAM THAT THE[00:15:01]
PLANNING COMMISSION AND COUNCIL EVENTUALLY ADOPTED, JUST A MINOR AT ADJUSTMENT TO THAT EXISTING ORDINANCE TO CREATING OPPORTUNITY TO THIS ROAD EXTENDING TO THE EAST, ADDING SOME ADDITIONAL PARKING AND THE NEW ORDINANCE, THE PUD ORDINANCE THAT WOULD JUST BE FOR THIS EXISTING STRIP OF LAND. THAT NEW ORDINANCE NEARS THE EXISTING ORDINANCE, SO INSTEAD OF CREATING OR AMENDING THE STATED ORDINANCE, WE TOOK THE COUNCIL OF YOUR STAFF AND DID A SMALL AMENDMENT AND REPLICATED THE NEW ONE. YOU WILL FIND MANY OF THE ELEMENTS ARE EXACTLY THE SAME, EXCEPT JUST CREATING THIS ESSENTIALLY SHARED COMMON PROPERTY LINE, ELIMINATING THE BUFFERING, THE SIDE YARD BUFFERING BETWEEN THE TWO CONSIDERING THE NEW AND EXISTING USES WILL BE THE SAME USE. THE SIDE SETBACK ON THE EASTERN BOUNDARY, BEING ABOUT 10 FEET. AGAIN, TO CAPTURE AS MUCH USE OF THE PROPERTY AS POSSIBLE BUT, CREATING AN OPPORTUNITY FOR RICHLAND AVENUE TO COME SOUTH AND NOT IMPACT THE TWO NEW COTTAGES. YOU WILL SEE THE 30 FOOT TREE PRESERVATION ALIGNMENT WITH THE EXISTING SITE AND THE NEW SITE, THAT PRESERVATION WAS VERY IMPORTANT TO THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT, PARTICULARLY FOR DRAINAGE ON THE NORTHERN END AS WELL AS BUFFERING TO THE CONDO ASSOCIATION TO THE NORTH, SO AGAIN, MANY ELEMENTS REPLICATED TO THE BEST OF OUR ABILITY TO THE EAST. I WILL ALSO OFFER SOME FINAL COMMENTS HERE, WE DID HAVE A NEIGHBOR MEETING, WE INVITED NEIGHBORS WHO RECEIVED PUBLIC NOTICE, PARTICULARLY THOSE NEIGHBORS TO THE EAST RECOGNIZING THAT THEY WOULD BE THE MOST NOTABLY IMPACTED. WE HAD TWO HOMEOWNERS, ACTUALLY THREE RESIDENTS, TWO DIFFERENT LIBERTY OWNERS ATTEND A PUBLIC MEETING, WE HAD A GOOD CONVERSATION WITH THEM, OFFERED THEM A FORMER SITE PLAN AND SHARED THIS NEW SITE PLAN WITH THEM, TWO OF THE THREE INDIVIDUALS WHO ATTENDED THE NEIGHBOR MEETING ARE IN ATTENDANCE TONIGHT AND CERTAINLY HAD A POSITIVE CONVERSATION WITH THEM. I LOOK FORWARD TO ANY OPPORTUNITY TO INTERACT CLIENTS, I HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY OTHER NEIGHBORS OF INTEREST, LETTERS, COMMUNICATION OR OTHERWISE, AND CERTAINLY CONTINUE TO WANT TO AFFORD AN OPPORTUNITY THROUGH THIS PROCESS WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION COMMITTEE AND HOPEFULLY TO THE COUNTY COUNSEL, EXCUSE ME, CITY COUNCIL TO CONTINUE THAT CONVERSATION WITH ANY INTERESTED, OR THOSE WITH MORE CRITICAL COMMENTS. WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME A PUBLIC HEARING, BY A SHOW OF HANDS, IS THERE ANYBODY HERE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OR OPPOSITION? I SEE ONE. WE WILL SET THE TIMER FOR FIVE MINUTES, SO YOU WILL SEE, THE LIGHT IS ON RIGHT NOW, AND WE WILL TRACK YOUR TIME. PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF.>> FIRST OF ALL, I DON'T NORMALLY DRESS LIKE THIS, I'M PERFORMING TONIGHT AT 8:30, I DON'T USUALLY WEAR RED SEQUENCE PANTS. MY NAME IS ALLIE AND I'M THE NEIGHBOR, 28 YEAR NEIGHBOR IMMEDIATELY TO THE EAST AND I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK TONIGHT. I WANT TO BEGIN BY SAYING I RECOGNIZE AND APPRECIATE THE VERY REAL AND GROWING NEED FOR SENIOR CARE IN OUR CITY, AS OUR POPULATION AGES, ADDITIONAL CARE OPTIONS WILL BE NECESSARY AND I RESPECT THE WORK THAT PROVIDERS ARE DOING, MY COMMENTS TONIGHT ARE NOT IN OPPOSITION TO SENIOR CARE AS A CONCEPT, HOWEVER, WHILE THE DEVELOPERS FRAMED THIS EXPANSION IN RESPONSE TO THE COMING SILVER TSUNAMI, IT IS IMPORTANT TO BE HONEST ABOUT THE SCALE, THIS PROPOSAL ADDS JUST 24 BEDS, THAT WILL NOT MEANINGFULLY ADDRESS THE WAVE THAT IS COMING, NOR DOES IT JUSTIFY THE PERMANENT PLANNING IMPACT THIS PROJECT WOULD CREATE. WE SHOULD BE CAREFUL NOT TO OVERSELL THAT THIS EXPANSION CAN REALISTICALLY ACCOMPLISH, I ALSO WANT TO
[00:20:01]
CHALLENGE THE CLAIM THAT THIS PROJECT SUPPORTS AGING IN PLACE.AGING IN PLACE MEANS SENIORS ARE ALLOWED TO REMAIN IN THEIR HOMES FOR AS LONG AS POSSIBLE, IT DOES NOT REQUIRE RESIDENTS TO LEAVE THEIR HOME AND MOVE INTO A NEW FACILITY. ASSISTED-LIVING IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE CARE CONTINUUM BUT IT IS NOT THE SAME THING AS AGING IN PLACE AND THE DISTINCTION MATTERS WHEN EVALUATING LAND-USE DECISIONS. THE HEART OF MY OPPOSITION HOWEVER IS IN THE INFRASTRUCTUR EXPANSION WOULD EFFECTIVELY BLOCK A PROPOSED EXTENSION OF RICHLAND AVENUE THROUGH THE VERY PARCEL NOW BEING CONSIDERED FOR THE RESTORE THE CITY'S GROWTH.
AND I HAVE PERSONALLY FOLLOWED RICHLAND AVENUE'S PROPOSAL FOR A VERY LONG TIME AS IT COULD IN FACT ELIMINATE MY HOME. DURING THAT TIME I HAVE RECEIVED MULTIPLE AND OFTEN CONFLICTING ANSWERS INCLUDING AN OFFER TO PURCHASE OUR HOME FROM A PREVIOUS CITY COUNCILMEMBER THAT WAS NOT IN FACT LEGITIMATE. SO YOU CAN IMAGINE I HAVE SIGNIFICANT CONCERNS. WHAT IS DEEPLY TROUBLING TO ME IS THAT IF THE CITY COULD PURCHASE THE SAME PROPERTY FOR THE ROAD EXTENSION, IT COULD ELIMINATE THE NEED TO DEMOLISH AT LEAST TWO AND LIKELY THREE HOMES. AND THESE ARE NOT JUST LINES ON A MAP, THESE ARE PEOPLE'S HOMES, THEIR LARGEST FINANCIAL ASSETS AND PLACES WHERE WE HAVE BUILT OUR LIVES. ADDITIONALLY, TRANSPARENCY IN THIS PROCESS HAS BEEN DEEPLY LAGGING. I BELIEVE IT IS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT THAT ALL POTENTIAL IMPACTED RESIDENTS ARE CLEARLY INFORMED ABOUT AGENDA ITEMS THAT ARE TABLED FOR FUTURE MEETINGS. IT IS INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT TO HEAR FROM THOSE AFFECTED WHEN INFORMATION IS OUTDATED OR UNCLEAR. FOR EXAMPLE, TODAY AS I PASS THROUGH, THE PROPERTY, THE HEARING DATE STILL IS LISTED AS NOVEMBER 18TH, AND WE WILL TALK ABOUT TWO TONIGHT AND ONE IS TABLED THROUGH JANUARY, THIS ALONE SHOULD CONCERN US. I STRONGLY SUPPORT CHANGING CITY REQUIREMENTS OF BOTH THE CITY AND DEVELOPERS ARE REQUIRED TO UPDATE SIGNAGE PROPERLY AND TO DIRECTLY NOTIFY POTENTIALLY AFFECTED RESIDENTS OF ALL HEARING CHANGES , HEARING DATE CHANGES. PEOPLE CANNOT ACTIVELY PARTICIPATE IN ANY MEANINGFUL WAY WHEN THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING OR WHEN IT IS HAPPENING. I ALSO WANTED TO EXPRESS MY FRUSTRATION WITH THE DEVELOPER HOSTED MEETING THAT I ATTENDED, WHILE I APPRECIATED THE OPPORTUNITY, DURING THAT MEETING THE EXPANSION OF RICHLAND AVENUE WAS DISCUSSED AS THOUGH IT WERE ALREADY A SETTLED DECISION. THAT FRAMING WAS ALARMING TO ME. ESPECIALLY GIVEN THE UNCERTAINTY THAT MANY RESIDENTS FACED. MOST OUTSTANDING WAS WITNESSING A MOMENT INVOLVING A SENIOR CITIZEN NEIGHBOR WHO HAS LIVED IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD FOR 30 YEARS, WHEN HE EXPRESSED HIS DISTRESS ABOUT THE PROPOSED CHAIN-LINK FENCE THAT WOULD REPLACE HIS TREE-LINED BACKYARD, HE WAS TOLD AND I QUOTE, IT WON'T MATTER BECAUSE YOUR HOME WILL BE GONE AND THE ROAD WILL BE THERE. HE HUNG HIS HEAD AND SAID I DON'T KNOW WHERE I WILL GO. OUR RESIDENTS DESERVE BETTER. NO RESIDENT SHOULD LEARN INFORMALLY, DISMISSIVELY AND WITHOUT ANY OFFICIAL PROCESS THAT THEIR HOME MAY HAVE TO BE TAKEN. WE HAVE ALL BENEFITED FROM THE TREMENDOUS GROWTH IN CARMEL THAT WE WERE HERE FIRST.
THESE ARE NOT ABSTRACT PLANNING EXERCISES, THESE ARE PEOPLE'S LIVES. RESIDENTS WHO MAY BE IMPACTED BY THE RICHLAND AVENUE EXTENSION DESERVE ABSOLUTE TRANSPARENCY. THE LONGEST RUNWAY POSSIBLE TO PREPARE AND THE CITY'S ACTIVE ASSISTANCE IF PROPERTY ACQUISITION BECOMES NECESSARY. THAT INCLUDES NOT ONLY FAIR COMPENSATION, BUT CLEAR COMMUNICATION ABOUT TIMELINESS, OPTIONS AND WHERE PEOPLE CAN REALISTICALLY LOCATE.
I PERSONALLY HAVE KNOWN MY NEIGHBORS WHO WILL BE IMPACTED, FOR CLOSE TO 30 YEARS AND THIS LACK OF TRANSPARENCY HAS CAUSED MUCH STRESS, ENORMOUS DISRUPTION TO THEIR PEACE OF MIND AND THEY DESERVE BETTER. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND YOUR SERVICE TO
OUR CITY. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ARE THERE ANY OTHER COMENTS? PETITIONER, WOULD YOU LIKE TO
PROVIDE REBUTTAL COMMENTS? >> THANK YOU FOR THE PUBLIC COMMENTS. THE COMMENTS OFFERED TO YOU THIS EVENING BY A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC, HIGHLIGHT MUCH OF THE PROCESS AND THE TRANSPARENCY THAT HAS BEEN AFFORDED THE DEVELOPER BY THE CITY OF CARMEL
[00:25:02]
. WE HAVE HAD OPPORTUNITIES TO LEARN HOW THE CITY IS EVOLVING, AND PLANS FOR THE EXTENSION OF RICHLAND AVENUE. THAT IN FACT HAS IMPACTED GREATLY AS I HIGHLIGHTED IN MY INITIAL PRESENTATION, THE DEVELOPMENT PLANS OF MY CLIENT THROUGHOUT THIS PROCESS. THE PROPERTY IS ONE THAT MY CLIENT HAS HAD UNDER CONTRACT AT GREAT EXPENSE FOR MANY YEARS AND WE WILL CONTINUE TO HAVE IT UNDER CONTRACT AT GREAT EXPENSE TO A FOR THE COMMUNITY THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE 24 NEW SKILLED NURSING FACILITY BEDS. WE HOSTED A NEIGHBOR MEETING AT THE ADVICE OF STAFF, WE WERE VERY GRATEFUL FOR THE ATTENDANCE OF THREE LONG-STANDING CARMEL RESIDENCE, LONG-STANDING NEIGHBORS DO NOT SHARE IN THE SENTIMENTS TONIGHT , AND REACTIONS AND BACK AND FORTH WITH THE RESIDENTS. BUT WHAT I DO SHARE TONIGHT IS THAT THE TRANSPARENCY AROUND FUTURE PLANS HAVE BEEN A STRUGGLE FOR US TO UNDERSTAND AS MUCH AS THE OTHER RESIDENTS HAVE BEEN ABLE TO UNDERSTAND. THE SAME, WE HAVE ATTEMPTED TO SHARE AS MUCH AS WE WERE TOLD AT ANY GIVEN POINT, AT THE POINT OF WHICH WE HOSTED THAT NEIGHBOR MEETING AND WE WERE TOLD THAT A ROUNDABOUT WAS BEING CONSIDERED BUT THAT THE ROAD EXTENSION WOULD OCCUR, THAT THE ULTIMATE CONNECTIVITY OF THAT ROAD WAS UNKNOWN. BUT WE HAD BEEN GIVEN AN EXHIBIT, ONE THAT I'M HAPPY TO SHARE THIS EVENING AS APPROPRIATE IF THE PLANNING COMMISSION SO DESIRES, THAT WOULD IMPACT SEVERAL OF THOSE HOMEOWNERS. I DO NOT MAKE A DECISION, MY CLIENT DOESN'T MAKE A DECISION AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION DOESN'T MAKE A DECISION, BUT CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND THE GREAT IMPACT THAT SUCH AN EXTENSION WOULD HAVE.ALL RESIDENTS, PARTICULARLY HOMEOWNERS IN THAT COMMUNITY, LONG-STANDING HOMEOWNERS TO MY UNDERSTANDING, THE FAMILIES WHO ATTENDED THAT COMMUNITY MEETING HAVE LIVED THERE FOR OVER 20 YEARS, IN FACT THE PROPERTY THAT MY CLIENT HAS UNDER CONTRACT IS A HOME, ONE THAT WOULD NEED TO BE CONSIDERED IN THE CITY'S PLANS FOR EXPANSION AS WELL. THIS DEVELOPMENT AS PROPOSED WOULD NOT SELL TO SERVE THE SILVER TSUNAMI BUT IT WILL SERVE A NEED THAT IS REGULARLY IDENTIFIED BY MY CLIENT ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS AND ONLY GETTING WORSE AND AS I NOTED, IT'S JUST A SMALL OPPORTUNITY FOR THE CITY OF CARMEL TO USE A UNIQUELY SIZED AND UNIQUELY SITUATED PARCEL FOR A SIGNIFICANT INVESTMENT, BOTH MONETARILY AS WELL AS FROM A HEALTH PERSPECTIVE OF AN AGING IN PLACE COMMUNITY. AGING IN PLACE DOES GO BEYOD ONE'S HOME BECAUSE ULTIMATELY THE CARE PROVIDED BY MY CLIENT AND HIS CARE PROVIDERS ARE GREATER THAN OUR RESIDENTS CAN BE AFFORDED AT HOME. THERE ARE MANY STUDIES THAT THE SMALL HOME COTTAGES PROVIDE MUCH GREATER, HEALTHIER, LONG-STANDING, BETTER CARE THAN INSTITUTIONAL SKILLED NURSING FACILITIES, WITH LESS RETURN TO HOSPITALIZATION AND REALLY AN ENVIRONMENT WE HAVE SEEN PROVEN IN CARMEL AND OTHER SMALL HOME COTTAGE CONCEPTS THAT WE REALLY LOOK FOR YOUR SUPPORT AND ULTIMATELY THE CITY COUNCILS SUPPORT, AS I SAID A SMALL OPPORTUNITY TO EXPAND THE OFFERING IN THIS GREAT COMMUNITY. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, I WILL TURN IT OVER TO STAFF FOR
DEPARTMENT COMMENTS. RACHEL? >> THANK YOU, RACHEL, PLANNING AND DEPARTMENT SERVICES, TONIGHT WE HEARD ABOUT THE EXPANSION OF THE RESTORE THE CITY PROJECT, THE EXISTING COTTAGES ON THIS SITE WERE CONSTRUCTED BETWEEN 2015 AND 2016 UNDER THE GREENHOUSE COTTAGES DEVELOPMENT AND THE GOAL OF THE PROPOSALS BEFORE US TONIGHT ARE TO AMEND THE EXISTING GREENHOUSE COTTAGES PUD AND TO CREATE A NEW PUD FOR THE NEW PARCEL. WHEN CONSIDERING
[00:30:04]
A REZONE, WE MUST LOOK TO THE CONFERENCE OF PLAN FOR GUIDANCE, THIS AREA IS LISTED AS PART OF THE DOWNTOWN DEVELOPMENT PATTERN. IT DOES ALLOW FOR MANY TYPES OF USES IN THIS PATTERN AND THIS PROPOSED USE DOES FIT THOSE QUALIFICATIONS. SOME OBJECTIVES THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT OUR WAYS TO SUPPORT PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO REMAIN IN THEIR COMMUNITY THROUGH ALL STAGES OF LIFE, PROVIDING FOR ADDITIONAL SENIOR CARE UNITS WILL HELP TO ACCOMPLISH THIS GOAL. ANOTHER GOAL IS TO PROTECT SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL FROM DISSIMILAR USES, THIS PROPOSAL DOES INTEND TO DO THAT WITH LOW INTENSITY USE, KEEPING THE BUILDING DESIGN AND RESIDENTIAL CHARACTER AT SCALE. AND THERE ARE SOME OTHER WAYS THAT THIS PROJECT COULD PROTECT THE NEIGHBORING SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES AND I WILL TOUCH ON THOSE IN A FEW MINUTES.LASTLY, THE COMPETENCE OF PLAN CALLS OUT ROAD AND PEDESTRIAN IMPROVEMENTS FOR THE CITY, IT WAS MENTIONED THE EXTENSION OF RICHLAND AVENUE IS A NORTH TO SOUTH CONNECTOR ROAD, IS PROPOSED FOR THE EAST SIDE OF THIS PARCEL. GOING TO THE PUD LANGUAGE, THE GREENHOUSE COTTAGE PUD NEEDS TO BE AMENDED IN ORDER TO ESTABLISH A NEW CONCEPT PLAN, WHICH SHOWS THE CONNECTION BETWEEN THE TWO PARCELS. WE NEED TO ADJUST SIDE YARD SETBACKS AND LANDSCAPING REQUIREMENTS TO CORRESPOND TO THE NEW SHARED PARCEL LINE, THE PROPERTY LINE BETWEEN THE TWO PARCELS, ADJUST PARKING COUNTS AND A FEW OTHER MINOR ITEMS. FOR THE RESTORE PUD, IT IS MODELED OFF THE GREENHOUSE COTTAGES PUD AND SOME KEY ITEMS IN THE PUDITSELF ARE TO ESTABLISH NEW SETBACKS, CONSIDERING AGAIN THAT THE WEST PROPERTY LINE IS NOW OWNED BY THE SAME OWNER, OR WOULD BE IF THE SALE GOES THROUGH. CREATE NEW BUFFER YARDS AND EXTEND EXISTING BUFFER YARDS. FOR EXAMPLE, THE 30 FOOT TREE PRESERVATION AREA AT THE NORTH PROPERTY LINE AS WELL AS THE 50 FOOT BUILDING SET BACK FROM THE NORTH PROPERTY LINE, THE PROPOSED NEW COTTAGE MATCHES THE EXISTING COTTAGE SO THAT IS A GOOD CONTINUATION OF WHAT IS EXISTING. THERE WOULD BE NO BUFFERING ON THE WEST LINE NOW BECAUSE IT IS THE SAME USE AND SAME OWNER BUT FOR THE EAST BUFFER YARD, WHICH WOULD BE AGAINST THE SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL HOMES, 10 FEET IS PROPOSED. THIS IS FIVE FEET LESS THAN THE PREVIOUS PUD HAD FOR THIS PARCEL, SO THE EXISTING GREENHOUSE COTTAGES PUD HAD A 15 FOOT BUFFER AGAINST THE SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL LOT THAT IS THIS NEW LOT THAT THEY ARE BUILDING ON, IF THAT MAKES SENSE. SO IT IS FIVE FEET LESS.
AS CURRENTLY LAID OUT, THERE'S ABOUT 12 FEET BETWEEN THE EDGE OF THE BUILDING AND THE PROPERTY LINE. SO 15 FOOT BUFFER ISN'T TRULY POSSIBLE UNLESS THEY MAKE SOME CHANGES TO THE BUILDING PLACEMENT AND BUILDING DESIGN AS CURRENTLY PROPOSED. LASTLY , THE KEY ITEM THAT WE NEED TO DO WITH THIS NEW PUD IS RESERVE SPACE FOR DETENTION AND ALSO FOR THE FUTURE ROAD CONNECTION TO CITY CENTER DRIVE. SOME ITEMS WE ARE STILL WORKING THROUGH ARE THE OPEN-SPACE PERCENTAGES FOR EACH PARCEL, WE WANT TO ENSURE AS MUCH OPEN-SPACE AS RESERVED ON EACH PARCEL AS POSSIBLE AND WE WANT TO HAVE THE ACTUAL PERCENTAGE OF OPEN-SPACE LISTED, AND THEN WE NEED TO CONFIRM THAT EXISTING ROADS AND PROPOSED ROADS ACTUALLY MEET THE WIDTH REQUIREMENT THAT IS LISTED, SIDEWALKS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE STREETS AND THAT RIGHT-OF-WAY WIDTH WOULD BE INCLUDED FOR THE FUTURE STREET ON THE EAST SIDE OF THIS PROPERTY. WE RECOMMEND THAT YOU DISCUSS THIS TONIGHT AND SEND IT TO THE JANUARY 6 COMMITTEE MEETING AND THEN BRING IT BACK TO THE FULL PLANNING COMMISSION FOR A FINAL VOTE,
THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, I'M GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO MY FELLOW PLANNING COMMISSIONERS FOR COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS, I'M GOING TO START WITH
COUNCILMEMBER MINNAAR. >> FIRST OF ALL I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR COMING AND FOR THE PUBLIC COMMENT, FULL DISCLOSURE, I HAVE KNOWN ALLIE SINCE I WAS 11 YEARS OLD, SO FULL DISCLOSURE, WE HAVE KNOWN EACH OTHER FOR A LONG TIME AND NO OFFENSE, IF SHE SAID THAT WAS THE TONE, THAT WAS THE TONE BECAUSE I HAVE KNOWN HER LONG ENOUGH. A COUPLE THINGS THAT STRUCK ME WAS THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT COORDINATING WITH DOCS AND
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CITY COUNCIL AND WITH THE ATTORNEYS AND ENGINEERING AND I FOUND IT INTERESTING THAT YOU GUYS DIDN'T COME TO THE COUNCIL REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION, YOU WERE ADVISED BY THE PRESIDENT OF OUR COMMISSION AND ALSO ADVISED BY DOCS TO MEET WITH ME AND YOU DIDN'T SO BECAUSE OF THAT I HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS FOR YOU, WE COULD HAVE DONE THIS OUTSIDE OF THIS MEETING BUT SINCE WE ARE HERE, I HAVE MY QUESTIONS FOR YOU NOW.NUMBER ONE, MY BIGGEST CONCERN WITH THIS IS THE RIGHT-OF-WAY DEDICATION ON THIS LINE, IF THIS WERE TO PASS, THERE IS NO LANGUAGE IN THE AMENDED PUD THAT YOU ARE WILLING TO DEDICATE THAT RIGHT-OF-WAY FOR THE ROAD ON RICHMOND THAT IS GOING TO COME, AND THAT IS A PRIORITY OF THE CITY COUNCIL, TO GET THAT ROAD FINISHED, WHETHER WE GET THAT DONE IN ONE YEAR, TWO YEARS, THREE YEARS, IN THE INTERIM I WOULD LIKE THAT LANGUAGE PUT INTO THE PUD. JUST FYI. NUMBER TWO, WHEN IT COMES TO THE SETBACKS BETWEEN THE EAST NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE PROJECT, I 100% AGREE WE NEED MORE OF THESE MEDS, ABSOLUTELY AND I THINK YOUR PROJECT IS AMAZING, I CAN'T REALLY TELL BECAUSE OF THE IMAGERY WE RECEIVED, I CAN'T REALLY TELL OTHER THAN THE ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN, I CAN SEE WHAT YOUR INTENTIONS WERE BUT AS FAR AS WHAT WE ARE SEEING, THERE'S NO DIMENSIONS, THERE'S NOTHING FOR ME TO ASCERTAIN AND GIVE THAT INFORMATION AND AGAIN, WE COULD HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS OUTSIDE THIS MEETING. SORRY. WE COULD HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS OUTSIDE THE MEETING BUT YOU GUYS DIDN'T MEET WITH ME SO I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE BUFFER BETWEEN THE TWO PROPERTIES ON THE EAST SIDE, THOSE NEIGHBORS HAVE LIVED THERE, THAT'S ONE OF THE OLDEST NEIGHBORHOODS IN THE CITY OF CARMEL , NOT ONLY WILL THEY BE DISRUPTED WITH A ROW THAT IS GOING TO COME THROUGH WITH THE KNOWLEDGE AT THAT POINT FOR THEM FOR MANY YEARS BLEEDING -- BELIEVING THAT PARCEL OF LAND IS WHERE THE ROAD WOULD BE, SO I WANT TO MAKE SURE THE EAST SIDE NEIGHBORS ARE TAKING CARE OF BECAUSE THEY ARE GOING TO GET A DOUBLE DOOZY, THEY ARE GOING TO GET YOUR PROJECT WHICH IS NEEDED, I DON'T DISAGREE, BUT THEY ARE ALSO GOING TO GET A ROW THAT IS GOING TO DEMOLISH THREE OF THE HOMES THAT ARE CURRENTLY EXISTING TODAY. SO WITH THAT, IN THE INTERIM, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WHATEVER LANGUAGE IS IN THIS PUD REALLY PAYS ATTENTION TO THE SETBACKS BETWEEN THE TWO PROPERTIES AND ALSO THE BUFFER THAT GOES IN BETWEEN THE TWO.
EVEN THOUGH IT IS INTERIM, IT DOESN'T MATTER, THEY ARE GETTING A DOUBLE DOOZY, THEY SHOULD HAVE SOME SORT OF DUTY BETWEEN THE TWO SPOTS, IS GOING TO BE A PARKING LOT WHERE THE HOUSE SITS RIGHT NOW AND THAT PARKING LOT IS GOING TO HAVE EMS RUNS, FIRE RUNS, AND THEY WERE PROTECTED FROM THAT NOISE POLLUTION, ALL OF THAT FROM THE HOUSE THAT SITS THERE TODAY. SO WHATEVER GOES IN BETWEEN THE PARKING LOT AND THE HOUSES, THAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO ME AND I KNOW IT IS IMPORTANT TO THE COUNCIL REPRESENTATIVE WHO IS IN THAT DISTRICT AND ALSO THE OTHER COUNSELORS. THIS NEIGHBORHOOD HAS BEEN HERE A LOT LONGER THAN ALL OF US AND I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IS TAKING CARE OF. THE OTHER ISSUE I HAD, AND I'M SORRY, I HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS, THIS IS MY LAST MEETING.
>> KEEP GOING, YOU ARE FINE. >> A COUPLE THINGS AS WELL, IN THE PUD, I NOTICED THAT SECTION 8, SUBSECTION A, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT EXTRA PARKING AND IT SAID IN THE EVENT OF AN EVENT THAT MIGHT HAPPEN IN THE AREA, THAT OVERFLOW PARKING WOULD GO INTO THE COMMON AREA. OR EXCUSE ME, THE OPEN-SPACE AREA, I'M NOT SURE WHAT THAT LANGUAGE MEANS BUT IF YOU ARE SAYING YOU ARE GOING TO PARK CARS IN THE RAIN GARDEN THAT IS PROPOSED ON THE SOUTHERN PORTION OF THE LOT, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU GET THERE AND I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU PARK THERE. SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT LANGUAGE MEANS, I WOULD LIKE SOME CLARIFICATION ON THAT.
ALSO, THERE WAS A COUPLE OTHER, OH, WHEN IT COMES TO THE COMMON AREA, THE OPEN-SPACE, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DO HAVE THOSE EXACT NUMBERS BECAUSE GIVEN THE SITE PLAN THAT WE HAVE, THERE'S NOTHING TO LOOK AT, THERE'S NOTHING FOR US TO TELL WHAT THOSE PERCENTAGES ARE AND IF WE ARE GOING TO LESSEN THE AMOUNT OF OPEN-SPACE THAT IS IN THE CURRENT GREENHOUSE PUD I WANT TO
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MAKE SURE WHAT THOSE NUMBERS LOOK LIKE IF WE ARE GOING TO TAKE AWAY FROM THEM AS WELL. AND THEN THE OTHER ISSUE, SORRY, AGAIN ALL OF THIS COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED, WE COULD HAVE HAD A CONVERSATION OFF-LINE. YOU KNOW WHAT, I'M GOING TO STOP THERE, I WILL LET MY OTHER COMMISSIONERS TAKE A WHACK IF IMAY. >> AND YOU WILL BE AT THE NEXT COMMITTEE MEETING, TOO. THAT IS HELPFUL. ANYBODY ELSE HAVE A
QUESTION OR COMMENT? >> I THINK IT WOULD BE REALLY HELPFUL IF YOU WOULD POINT OUT WHERE RICHMOND AVENUE IS. SO, WHILE YOU ARE LOOKING, I WILL PREFACE MY REMARKS WITH I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE RESTORE THE CITY, THEY DELIVER WONDERFUL CARE AND IF I WOULD NEED TO BE IN A FACILITY LIKE THAT, THAT'S WHERE I WOULD WANT TO GO. MY SON AND I MOVED A LONG TIME FRIEND INTO ONE, FROM A LARGER SKILLED NURSING FACILITY AND THE DIFFERENCE IS NIGHT AND DAY, SO THE COTTAGE CONCEPT I ADORE AND I WANT TO SEE IT SUCCEED. ALL THAT SAID, THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS. ESPECIALLY FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE WATCHING AND I'M GLAD TO KNOW THE IMAGES -- I'M GLAD TO KNOW IT ISN'T JUST MY EYES, THANK YOU, IT'S GOOD TO KNOW THAT WASN'T JUST ME.
>> IS THERE A WAY TO MODIFY THIS, OBVIOUSLY SO IT IS NOT
BLURRY IN FRONT OF ME? >> JUST DO A QUICK ORIENTATION.
WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE IS WHAT THE PROPOSED ROUTE IS LOOKING AT, JEFF POINTED OUT ONE OF YOUR OLDER DRAWINGS.
>> MAY I SHOW THIS TO THE GROUP? I HAVE COPIES FOR EVERYONE.
>> IF YOU CAN JUST PUT IT UP AND SHOW IT, THIS WAS A PRIOR OLDER PLAN THAT YOU HAD, AND IS THIS PLANNED, THIS ROAD, THOSE WERE GOING TO BE MY QUESTIONS. SHOW THE PEOPLE WATCHING WHERE RICHMOND IS NOW AND WHAT ABSENT THIS PROJECT, WHAT WOULD BE
HAPPENING THERE? Ú>> CAN YOU ZO >> I THINK THE OTHER WAY.
>> CAN WE GO JUST A TAD MORE, PLEASE?
>> WHILE THEY ARE DOING THAT, POINT OUT THE EXISTING COTTAGES,
IS THAT THE NORTHERNMOST ONE? >> THIS IS NORTHEASTERN, THESE ARE THE CONDOS AND THESE ARE EXISTING, TO THE EAST, THE SCHOOL IS FURTHER NORTH. SO RICHMOND AVENUE WOULD TRAVEL SOUTH FROM THE SCHOOL. ALONG THE EASTERN BOUNDARY OF THE NEW SITE, WHETHER THAT JIBES IN SOME WAY IS AN OPEN QUESTION. THE NEW PROPOSED COTTAGES SIT HERE AND HERE, WE HAVE REMOVED THE THIRD COTTAGE WHICH WAS THE SOUTHERNMOST COTTAGE TO AFFORD ADDITIONAL OPEN-SPACE AT THE NORTH, EXCUSE ME, SOUTHEASTERN CORNER OF THE SITE WHICH IS THE CURRENT DRIVEWAY.
>> I POINTED OUT THE THREE HOMES THAT STAND TO BE ELIMINATED.
>> HE IS NOT BUILDING THE ROAD. >> I UNDERSTAND, SINCE THE COMMENTS WERE MADE, I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT, SO THE PEOPLE KNOW WHAT IS BEING TALKED ABOUT. THAT'S ALL I WANTED TO SEE.
THANK YOU. >> I GUESS I WILL TURN TO RACHEL, I DON'T KNOW HOW FAR DOWN THE ROAD THIS STREET PLANNING ACTUALLY IS, CAN YOU CLARIFY THE STREET ISSUE?
>> THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT IS WORKING ON THIS, THEY ARE WORKING ON THE DESIGN OF IT, THEY ARE WORKING ON ACQUISITION, THIS IS IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AS A FUTURE CONNECTION AND
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IT HAS BEEN STATED BY THE CITY O COUNSELORS THAT IT IS A PRIORITYFOR THEM. >> THANK YOU, MIKE DO YOU WANT
TO ADD? >> JUST A LITTLE BIT OF CONTEXT, SO THE ENGINEER AND I, AND THIS WAS THE PREVIOUS ENGINEER THAT DID A STUDY, AND WHAT THE IMPACT WOULD BE ON THOSE PROPERTIES, TO MAKE SURE THE ROAD EXTENSION COULD OCCUR AND REDEVELOPMENT COULD OCCUR. AND THEIR PROJECT WENT ON ICE, AND THERE WAS NO BACKING BY A PREVIOUS CITY COUNCIL AND NO FUNDING SO IT WAS A PLANNING EXERCISE, AND RECENTLY WE HAVE COME TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE COUNCIL HAS PLACED A HIGHER PRIORITY ON THIS AND THEY ARE LOOKING AT A MUCH LARGER DRAINAGE AND INFRASTRUCTURE IMPROVEMENT FOR THAT WHOLE PART OF THE COMMUNITY, WITH THE POTENTIAL TO EXTEND THE STREET. SO, IT'S KIND OF A CHICKEN AND THE EGG THING BUT IT'S PROBABLY MORE REAL TODAY THAN A YEAR AGO OR TWO YEARS AGO WHEN WE HAD JUST STARTED INCHING OUR WAY WITH THE STREET DESIGN. AND THERE IS A ROUNDABOUT DESIGN, WE JUST REALLY WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE UNDERSTOOD WHAT THE IMPACT WOULD BE ON THIS RESTORE THE CITY PROPERTY AND ALSO TO THE PROPERTY OWNERS, TWO POINT
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? DEBBIE?
>> I JUST THINK IT WOULD BE HELPFUL BECAUSE WE HAVE TWO PROPOSALS AND I KNOW THAT PRIOR TO THE MEETING COMING TO ORDER, AND PRIOR TO TODAY THERE HAS BEEN SOME CONCERN ABOUT WHAT DOES ONE DO, WHAT'S THE NEW AND WHAT IS THE AMENDMENT. AND IN JUST PLAIN ENGLISH, WHERE IS THE AMENDMENT AND WHERE'S THE NEW?
>> JUST BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO THAT QUESTION, I WANT TO MAKE SURE FOR THE RECORD, THE RESTORE THE CITY CLIENT HAS HAD NO PART IN ADVOCATING FOR THE EXTENSION OF RICHMOND AVENUE, I JUST THINK, I KNOW THE COMMISSION MEMBERS KNOW THAT I JUST WANTED, MY SHOWING OF THE EXHIBIT TO INDICATE OTHERWISE. THANK YOU.
THE EXISTING SITE HAS SIX 8000 SQUARE FOOT COTTAGES AND ONE SMALL ADMIN BUILDING, THESE ARE THE EXISTING SITES, IT IS ACCESSED BY ONE DRIVE, GREENHOUSE WAY WITH A CUL-DE-SAC AT THE END, ENTRANCE AND EXIT IS SOLELY PROVIDED. THE AMENDMENT OF THE EXISTING PUD IS SOLELY TO CONSIDER THE NEW DRIVE, SORT OF AN ARTERY IF YOU WILL FROM THE EXISTING CUL-DE-SAC ROUNDABOUT, EAST, AND ADDITIONAL PARKING. THAT IS AN AMENDMENT TO THE GREENHOUSE PUD. THE NEW PUD WOULD ENCUMBER AND DICTATE THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE ADJACENT PARCEL, THAT NEW PUD BEING CALLED THE RESTORE THE CITY, AND THAT CONTEMPLATES TWO NEW COTTAGES, AGAIN, 8000 SQUARE FEET, AND 8000 SQUARE FEET BEING A STATE IMPOSED MAXIMUM SQUARE FOOTAGE FOR THESE SMALL HOME CONCEPTS, AN EXCEPTION TO THE SKILLED NURSING MORATORIUM, THE ADDITIONAL DRIVE, ADDITIONAL PARKING AND OF COURSE OPEN-SPACE AND VARIOUS OFFERINGS. DOES THAT ANSWER THE QUESTION?
>> I UNDERSTOOD THAT, I JUST THOUGHT IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO HAVE IT EXPLAINED FOR THE RECORD AND FOR THE PEOPLE WATCHING BECAUSE IT IS CONFUSING FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T DEAL WITH THIS
ON A DAILY BASIS. OKAY, JEFF? >> THANKS, FROM A BIG PICTURE PERSPECTIVE, I THINK I'M SUPPORTING IT AS WELL, I LIKE THE CONCEPT OF ADDITIONAL BUILDINGS TO SUPPORT THIS KIND OF USE, TO SUPPORT OUR EVER-GROWING AGING POPULATION,
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HOWEVER YOU WANT TO DESCRIBE IT, AGING IN PLACE, I'M NOT TRYING TO DEBATE THAT. THIS GROUP, THE BIG PICTURE TASK THAT WE HAVE IS LOOKING AT A REQUEST FROM A PETITIONER, WE NEED TO DECIDE OKAY, IS IT THE RIGHT USE IN THE RIGHT PLACE? THAT IS THE BIG PICTURE ENDEAVOR, AND GIVEN THE PROXIMITY, THE TYPE OF USE, I WILL SAY THE SUCCESS THAT HAS HAPPENED ALREADY, IT GENERALLY MAKES SENSE BUT THEN AT THE SAME TIME, THIS GROUP GETS INVOLVED WITH THE COMP PLAN UPDATE, SO WE HAVE TO DECIDE OKAY, HOW DOES THAT FIT IN? SO CERTAINLY, I WANT TO SOMEHOW BE SUPPORTIVE OF BOTH IF THAT MATH ACTUALLY WORKS, I'M NOT SURE IT DOES HERE. ALL THAT BEING SAID, I GUESS A COUPLE OF SMALLER PICTURE QUESTIONS FOR YOU AND I WILL TAKE ANSWERS NOW AND YOU CAN BRING THEM TO THE COMMITTEE MEETING, IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE TO ME, THE CONCEPT I SEE HERE IS A SKETCH THAT SAYS THE STREET IS PRIVATE, THE EXISTING STREET IS PRIVATE, CORRECT?>> YES, IT IS. >> THANK YOU, ONE THING YOU MENTIONED IS KIND OF INVOLVING THE SITE PLAN LAYOUT CONFIGURATION WITH THE STREET, THE P-SHAPE YOU DESCRIBED EARLIER, AND THERE'S CONCERNS ABOUT WHERE RICHLAND MIGHT TIE IN SOMEDAY, WHAT CONNECTIONS DOESN'T MAKE, IS IT SAFE? SO ARE YOU STAYING AWAY FROM THAT AND NOT CONNECTING OR WOULD YOU STILL CONNECT TO SOMETHING LIKE THAT, I'M JUST CURIOUS.
>> THE NEWEST SITE PLAN AS SHOWN ON THIS SCREEN HAS LOCATED THIS PRIVATE DRIVE PURPOSEFULLY. YOU CAN KIND OF NOTICE A SLIGHT NORTHERN BEND ON THIS ARTERY AS IT EXTENDS EAST. IT WAS PURPOSEFULLY ALIGNED EAST TO WEST, TO CONCORDE COURT, IN HOPES THAT IT MAY BE HELPFUL AT SOME POINT, CONSIDERING THE CITY'S THOROUGHFARE PLAN, IF RICHLAND AVENUE WERE TO TRAVEL SOUTH, THAT PERHAPSTHERE COULD BE SORT OF AN INTERSECTION HERE.
THAT IS NOT NEEDED FOR THE DEVELOPER, BUT PARTICULARLY FROM A FIRE SAFETY PERSPECTIVE, WE WANT TO AT LEAST KEEP IN MIND STUBBING THE ROAD WITH THAT ALIGNMENT. OF COURSE CONCORDE COURT COULD BE MODIFIED AS WELL, BUT SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND.
THE DESIGN HERE WAS DESIGNED TO BE SELF-CONTAINED WITH SUFFICIENT TURNAROUND AND COORDINATION WITH FIRE AS NEEDED IF ULTIMATELY THIS REMAINS A SELF-CONTAINED SITE.
>> I GUESS ONE THOUGHT I'VE GOT AND AGAIN, WE ARE BEING ASKED TO CONSIDER THE PUD AMENDMENT AND PUD FOR THIS PARCEL VERSUS LATER , A DEVELOPMENT PLAN, LANDSCAPING, THAT TYPE OF INFORMATION. SO MAYBE YOU ARE NOT THERE YET OR MAYBE THAT IS INTENTIONAL, AND WE WILL SEE HOW WE FIGURE THIS OUT, THAT MY DRIVE HOW THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN LOOKS SOMEDAY. ONE THING I WONDER IS ON THE EAST SIDE, TALKING ABOUT THE LIMITED BUFFER, I DON'T LOVE THAT PERSONALLY. IS THERE SOME WAY THAT THE BUILDINGS CAN BE ROTATED SO THE EXHIBIT SHOWS THEM ROTATED A DIFFERENT WAY, AND IF THE ROAD IS THERE, DOES THAT PROVIDE A CERTAIN TYPE OF ACCESS SO THAT THE BUFFER CAN BE INCREASED. OR I GUESS YOU COULD WALK US THROUGH, DOES THAT STILL WORK WITH THE RAIN GARDEN OR DETENTION OR WHATEVER ELSE YOU MIGHT NEED TO MAKE HEAVEN FROM A DRAINAGE PERSPECTIVE. MAYBE YOU CAN FOLLOW UP AND PROVIDE MORE INFORMATION POINT
>> I THINK A DISCUSSION IS APPROPRIATE FOR THE COMMITTEE HERE, SOME THINGS FOR TONIGHT'S REACTION IS, IT IS CRITICAL TO THE DESIGN OF THE COTTAGE THAT THE ACCESS BE PROVIDED ON THIS FACE OF THE BUILDING, AS OPPOSED TO ROTATING THE BUILDING AND ACCESSING IT FROM THE SHORT SIDE OF THE BUILDING. BOTH FOR ENTRANCE TO THE BUILDING AS WELL AS THERE SOME GARAGE ACCESS THERE. WE DID PURPOSEFULLY ROTATE THIS TO AGAIN SELF-CONTAINED THE SITE BECAUSE OF THE CHICKEN AND THE EGG SCENARIO HERE OF NOT DESIGNING THE SITE WITHOUT A DEFINED TIMELINE FOR RICHMOND AVENUE COMING FURTHER SOUTH. WE ALSO
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WANTED TO CREATE AS MUCH AVAILABLE SPACE HERE, AGAIN WHETHER THAT IS FOR A CURVED ROAD, OR A ROUNDABOUT CONNECTIVITY, ET CETERA, SO THERE WERE FACTORS, A MULTITUDE OF FACTORS THAT CONTRIBUTED TO THE PRESENT ALIGNMENT, ANY THAT I HAVE FORGOTTEN, THAT WOULD BE USEFUL TO SHARE TONIGHT. NONEADDITIONAL TONIGHT MR. HILL. >> THANKS.
>> JONATHAN. >> I WANT TO ECHO EVERYTHING MY COLLEAGUES SAID THIS EVENING, LOOKING FORWARD TO MORE CONVERSATION AT THE COMMITTEE MEETING, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STANDS OUT TO ME AND I THINK JEFF WAS STARTING TO HIT ON THIS, THE CURRENT ORIENTATION OF THE BUILDINGS RIGHT NOW GIVES US ABOUT 12.7 FOOT SETBACK, IF THAT ROAD DOES GO THROUGH, THAT GIVES US A 12.7 FOOT FRONT YARD SETBACK WHICH PUTS THIS PROPERTY IN NONCOMPLIANCE WITH PUD. OBVIOUSLY THE ROAD IS NOT THERE TODAY, KNOWING THAT IT IS A PRIORITY FOR THE CITY COUNCIL, WE HAVE TO TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION ON ANY TYPE OF APPROVAL HERE. RIGHT NOW, I WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THE RE-ZONE KNOWING THAT WE WOULD GO FROM THE REQUIRED FRONT YARD SETBACK OF 25 OR 30 FEET, I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS, NOW DOWN TO 12.7 FEET WHEN THAT ROAD GOES UP. SO REORIENTING THAT BUILDING IS GOING TO BE NECESSARY FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, AGAIN AS WE LOOK AT WHAT THAT FUTURE CONDITION IS. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT ROAD IS GOING IN TODAY, TOMORROW, 20 YEARS FROM NOW, WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THAT MOVING FORWARD. THOSE ARE MY ONLY COMMENTS IN ADDITION TO WHAT MY COLLEAGUES HAVE SAID.
>> THANK YOU MADAM CHAIR, ACTUALLY JONATHAN AND JEFF, ON A COUPLE OF TOPICS RUNNING THROUGH MY BRAIN, ACTUALLY IF YOU LOOK BACK AT THE ORIGINAL SITE PLAN, I UNDERSTAND WHAT WE SEE HERE IS ACCESS THAT IS PROVIDED ALONG THE WESTERN SIDE OF THIS ORIGINAL PLAN. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A REWORK, TO MAY BE RE-INCLUDE THOSE ROADS AND REORIENT THE BUILDINGS FOR THE REASONS WE DISCUSSED, LIKE JONATHAN, I CAN'T FULLY MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO APPROVE THOSE BASED ON THE SETBACKS.
>> I UNDERSTAND AND APPRECIATE THAT COMMENT, IF I CAN RESPOND TO THAT ONE, JUST TO INFORM TONIGHT'S CONSIDERATION. THERE ARE TWO EXISTING RAIN GARDENS HERE AND HERE. THAT DRIVE THAT WOULD HAVE FOLLOWED THE PROPERTY LINE HERE AND CURVE PACK WEST AS I SAID, SORT OF IN THIS P-SHAPE WOULD FULLY ELIMINATE THIS RAIN GARDEN WHICH IS IMPORTANT TO THE CURRENT DRAINAGE OF THE EXISTING PUD, OF COURSE AGAIN, THERE'S ALSO A SIGNIFICANT ELEVATION CHANGE AND SOME OTHER EXISTING WOODED AREAS HERE. SO, BALANCING ACT, I RECOGNIZE THAT, BUT JUST WANTED TO INFORM THE COMMENT
TONIGHT. >> AND THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING THAT, I GUESS MY QUESTION WOULD BE WHETHER OR NOT THE PROPOSED NEW RAIN GARDEN COULD ACCOMMODATE REMOVAL OF THE OTHER TWO, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT PROCESS LOOKS LIKE BUT I WOULD RECOMMEND MAYBE HAVING ENGINEERING LOOK AT IT.
>> AGAIN, I THINK IT IS A GREAT PROJECT, DON'T GET ME WRONG, I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT FOR THE RECORD, IT LOOKS BEAUTIFUL. BUT, THE OTHER CONCERN I HAD WAS ABOUT THE ACCESSORY USE ON THE PROPERTY, IN THE PUD WHICH IS COMMON, WE SEE IT ALL THE TIME, THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURES, BUT GIVEN THE SIZE OF THE PROPERTY, THE PARCEL SIZE AND THE LIMITED AMOUNT OF SPACE, NO LESS THAN 20%. I JUST WANT TO UNDERSTAND AS WELL, MAYBE THE COMMITTEE CAN COME BACK AND LET US KNOW WHAT YOU ARE THINKING, DO YOU HAVE PLANS FOR ACCESSORY STRUCTURES ON THE LAND OR ANY COMMITMENTS
ON THAT? >> THANK YOU FOR THE COMMENT.
THE FINANCING STRUCTURE OF A TRANSACTION LIKE THIS, AND THE SKILLED NURSING ENVIRONMENT CREATES AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE RESTORE THE CITY TO ENGAGE IN A LONG-TERM HUD FINANCING, ONCE THESE TWO FACILITIES WOULD BE CONSTRUCTED, THAT WOULD BE THE
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EXTENT, EXCUSE ME, THE TWO COTTAGES CONSTRUCTED, THAT WOULD BE THE EXTENT OF CONSTRUCTION ON THE SITE, THIS WOULD THEN BE CONSIDERED A SINGULAR SKILLED NURSING FACILITY FOR FINANCING PURPOSES, TAKE INTO HUD LONG-TERM FINANCE THAT WAY. AT ONE POINT THERE WAS A CONSIDERATION FOR AN ADDITIONAL ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICE BUILDING CONSIDERATION BECAUSE AS THE RESTORE THE CITY OF CARMEL OFFERINGS AS WELL AS EXECUTIVE LEADERSHIP TEAM HAS GROWN, THEY HAVE OUTGROWN THIS SPACE, AND LEAST OTHER SPACE IN THE CITY. THERE WAS A CONSIDERATION FOR SEVERAL THOUSAND SQUARE FEET, 3000, 4000 SQUARE FEET OF ADDITIONAL OFFICE SPACE, THE SITE PLAN HAS CHANGED SO MUCH, WE HAVE ELIMINATED THAT FROM THE PLAN.>> DEBBIE, YOU HAD ONE MORE QUESTION?
>> I JUST WANT TO REPEAT THE COMMENTS THAT WERE MADE, I KNOW THAT WE ARE NOT APPROVING DESIGN OR ANYTHING, BUT THE ORIENTATION IS REALLY PROBLEMATIC BECAUSE THE MAIN CONCERNS ARE BECAUSE OF THE ORIENTATION AND I STILL THINK YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH HAVING THE ENTRANCES WHERE YOU WANT THEM BUT STILL ORIENT THE BUILDINGS THE OTHER WAY AND THAT'S BECAUSE I'M FAMILIAR WITH THE OTHER BUILDINGS, I THINK THAT IS DOABLE SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT AS A CONSIDERATION WHEN YOU COME BACK
TO THE COMMITTEE. >> SO, I'M NOT GOING TO REPEAT WHAT EVERYBODY SAID, BUT WANTED TO RECAP, IT LOOKS LIKE THERE IS QUITE A BIT TO DISCUSS. THEY THREW OUT THE POSSIBILITY OF REORIENTING THE BUILDINGS, BE PREPARED TO COME WITH AN ANSWER, IF THAT IS POSSIBLE OR NOT. THE DEDICATED RIGHT-OF-WAY, ALSO I KNOW THIS IS A NEW PUD AND WE HAVE POSTPONED OR TABLED IT NONETHELESS BUT WE DO RIGHT THE LANDSCAPING REQUIREMENTS SO I WANT TO SEE THOSE SPELLED OUT, WHAT IS THE BUFFER BETWEEN THIS AND THE NEIGHBORS AND REALLY SPELL THAT OUT. AND TO ENSURE WE HAVE ENOUGH ROOM TO HAVE A BEAUTIFUL TREE PLANTING AND THERE'S ENOUGH BUFFER BETWEEN YOUR BUILDINGS AND THE HOUSES THAT EXIST TODAY AND ALSO WANTED CONFIRMATION THAT THE ROADS ARE AT LEAST 25 FEET, AS WELL AS THE OPEN SPACE AND EVERYTHING THAT WE DISCUSSED TONIGHT AND WHETHER YOU WOULD BE WILLING TO DEDICATE THE RIGHT-OF-WAY AS WELL. SO I KNOW THAT IS A LOT TO DISCUSS, TO HIT YOU WITH TONIGHT BUT IF YOU COULD COME JANUARY 6 READY TO ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS, THAT WOULD BE GREAT. WITH THAT, DO I
HAVE A MOTION? >> I MOVE WE SEND THIS ITEM TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION, THE COMMITTEE FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION ON JANUARY 6 WITH THE ITEM COMING BACK TO THE FULL PLANNING
>> THANK YOU, OTHERS IN FAVOR TO SENDING THIS TO THE JANUARY 6 COMMITTEE MEETING AND RETURNING BACK TO THE FULL PLANNING COMMISSION FOR A VOTE, PLEASE SAY AYE . OKAY, WE WILL SEE YOU ON JANUARY 6, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. SO, THIS IS OUR LAST ITEM ON THE AGENDA FOR THIS EVENING AND IT
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.