Dec 18, 2025 Plan Commission Hearing Officer

[A. Call to Order]

[00:00:06]

>>> GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. I'M MIKE, THE DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY SERVICES AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION HEARING OFICER FOR TODAY AND I'D LIKE TO CALL THE HEARING OFFICER MEETING TO ORDER FOR C2 MIXED USE HEARING.

>> OKAY. AND I'M LEAH YORK, PRESIDENT OF THE BOARDING OF ZONING APPEALS. SERVING AS THE HEARING OFFICER TODAY, CALLING THIS MEETING TO ORDER FOR THE THREE VARIANCES THAT WE HAVE.

>> STAFF OR LEGAL COUNCIL, DO YOU HAVE ANY ISSUES FOR US TODAY

[D.1. Docket No. PZ-2025-00246 DP/ADLS: 3rd Avenue Residences Development Plan and ADLS The applicant seeks site plan and design approval to construct a 3-story tall condominium building with 8 units and associated parking. The 0.57 acre site is located at 360 3rd Ave. SW and is zoned C2/Mixed Use. Filed by Alex Stephens of Kimley-Horn on behalf of Studio M Architecture.]

ADLS. >> AND THE DOCKET FOR THE VARIANCES TODAY ARE PZ02500247-00248, AND 00240 FOR MINIMUM BUFFER YARD. MAXIMUM BUILDING HEIGHT, AND SHADE

STREET TREES. >> SO, PETITIONER, IF YOU ARE

READY. >> I'M DAN FROM TEXTURE AND PLANNING HERE IN CARMEL, ON BEHALF OF THE OWNERSHIP OF THE THIRD AVENUE RESIDENCES TODAY. I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT. THIS IS SITE PLAN OF THE AREA, AS YOU CAN SEE. HERE IS THE EXISTING, OR THE NEW MERCHANTS ADDITION RIGHT THERE. IT'S THEIR HEADQUARTERS WITH THE BRIDGE GOING ACROSS. THIS IS BUCKINGHAM'S APARTMENT PROJECT THAT IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION, AND THE PARCEL WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY IS THIS RESIDUAL PARK PARCEL THAT REMAINS HERE NORTH OF MERCHANTS. IT IS BORDERED BY TWO PROPERTIES HERE THAT ARE ZONED RESIDENTIAL. AND THEN OF COURSE THIS PROPERTY UP HERE IS RESIDENTIAL. THE NOTION THAT WE'RE LOOKING TO DEVELOP ON THE PROPERTY IS EIGHT PRIVATE RESIDENCES. THEY ARE FLAT CONDOMINIUMS WITH ESSENTIALLY 16 PARKING SPACES AND PRIVATE GARAGES ON THE LOWER LEVEL. AND WHAT LED US TO THIS ARRANGEMENT SO TO SPEAK, ARE SOME RESTRICTIONS ON SITE. I THINK IT'S BEST TO SHOW IT HERE, SO I CAN WINDOW IN A LITTLE BIT. MY BAD. SO AS YOU CAN SEE, THE DOTTED LINES HERE. THIS IS A DUKE EASEMENT THAT EXISTS ALONG 3RD AVENUE SOUTHWEST. I'M SURE MOST OF YOU KNOW, 3RD AVENUE SOUTHWEST HAS BEEN IN THE PROCESS, I THINK IT IS CLOSE TO COMPLETE OF BEING REBUILT. AND UPGRADED WITH PARALLEL PARKING HERE. RIGHT NOW, THIS IS A LAY DOWN YARD FOR BUCKINGHAM FOR THIS PROJECT. SO, WE WON'T BE ABLE TO START CONSTRUCTION UNTIL THAT IS VACATED. BUT THIS, THIS AREA HERE IF YOU REMEMBER, THIS USED TO GO A LITTLE BIT STRAIGHTER HERE AND THEY'VE MADE THIS INTERSECTION MORE OF A T, I THINK. AND ALSO JUST UPGRADED THE STREET SCAPE ALONG HERE.. THE PROJECT LIMITS, WE HAVE OUR PLAZA. THIS PUBLIC PLAZA HERE WITH THE SCULPTURE THAT IS PLANNED IN THAT LOCATION REMAINS AS IS. THE ONLY THING THAT CHANGES IS NOW OUR PROPERTY LINE IS RIGHT HERE. SO THAT TRIANGLE RIGHT THERE THAT WAS THE TOP OF THE PLAZA IS STILL THERE. IT'S JUST NOW INCLUDES THE ENTRANCE TO THE CONDOMINIUMS, WHICH IS AT THIS CORNER RIGHT HERE. SO, WE'VE GOT THE PIECE OF THE PLAZA DOWN HERE TO WORK WITH. WE HAVE THE DUKE EASEMENT ALONG 3RD AVENUE.

WE ALSO HAVE THE EASEMENT, THAT CUTS THROUGH WITH A STORM SEWER

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SO, WE DID REDUCE TO EIGHT, AND AS YOU CAN SEE, THE RAMP, AS YOU COME OFF OF 3RD AVENUE HERE, CONTINUES DOWN, AND ALL OF THE PARKING IS BELOW THE BUILDING. AND I'LL SHOW YOU THAT PLAN HERE.

SO, THE VARIANCES THEN RELATED TO THE PLAN WE'RE ASKING FOR IS WHERE THE HEIGHT OF 36 FEET, 36 FEET TO THE TOP. IN LIEU OF THE 35 REQUIRED. THE BUFFER YARD BETWEEN US AND THE JOINT PROPERTIES AND THE STREET TREES, WHICH IS KIND OF A PLACE. IN A WAY, IT'S A PLACE HOLDER. WE ARE SHOWING STREET TREES, BUT WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN APPROVAL FROM DUKE TO PUT TREES IN THE EASEMENT. WE FEEL LIKE THEY MAY PUSH BACK AGAINST SOME OF THE TREES AND THE EXISTING UTILITIES THAT EXIST ALONG THERE. SO OF COURSE, WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE AS MANY TREES AS WE CAN GET. OUR INTENT IS TO PROVIDE THOSE TREES, BUT WE'RE ALSO LOOKING FOR THE VARIANCE IN CASE DUKE COMES BACK AND ASKS US NOT TO BUILD THOSE. SO HERE'S THAT. THE RAMP THAT GOES DOWN TO THE LOWER LEVEL. THESE ARE THE GARAGES THAT ARE INSIDE THE BASEMENT AT THE LOWER LEVEL. THE GENERATOR, THERE IS A GENERATOR ON THE PROJECT. IT IS DOWN IN THE BASEMENT INSIDE THE BUILDING. IT IS -- IT DOES HAVE EXHAUST THAT WILL PENETRATE THE WALL TO THE RAMP THERE. WE DO HAVE -- WE TALKED WITH ENGINEERING ABOUT THE DRAINS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE RAMP. IT'S ALL IN HERE TODAY. THERE'S ALEX. SO ALEX IS HERE. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ON DRAINAGE, ALEX STEVENS IS HERE.

ESSENTIALLY, ALL THE RETAINS FOR THIS PROPERTY IS ALREADY BUILT IN THE BUCKINGHAM GARAGE AND BELOW THE GARAGE THERE. SO, OUR OUTLET, IF I GO BACK TO THE PLAN FOR A SECOND. AND WE MET WITH BUCKINGHAM EARLIER THIS WEEK ON THE COORDINATION OF THE PLAZA CONSTRUCTION. THERE'S A MANHOLE RIGHT HERE, I THINK, ALEX. RIGHT ABOUT HERE THAT WE'RE TIEING INTO THAT WILL DRAIN INTO THE BUCKINGHAM GARAGE. SO EVERYTHING IN THE PROPERTY, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, WILL GO TO THE SOUTH, WITH THE POSSIBLE EXCEPTION OF, THERE'S A DRAIN AT THE BOTTOM OF THE RAMP THAT GOES TO THE NORTH TO THAT STORM EASEMENT THAT THE STRUCTURE THAT OCCURS UP HERE IN THIS EASEMENT TO THE NORTH. ALL UTILITY, THERE'S NO UTILITIES ON THE WESTERN SIDE OF THE PROPERTY HERE, BECAUSE OF OUR PROXIMITY TO THE WEST PROPERTY LINE. WE HAVE GOT A 20-FOOT CONSTRUCTION EASEMENT FROM THE ADJOINING PROPERTY OWNER HERE TO FACILITATE CONSTRUCTION ALONG THAT PROPERTY LINE. WE DO ALSO HAVE A RAILING IN OUR RESUBMITTED DRAWINGS. WE HAVE A RAILING SHOWN, LIKE A METAL RAILING SHOWN ALONG THE RAMP HERE. THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS FLEXIBLE. IF SOMEONE WOULD JUST SAY, WE WOULD RATHER SEE A FENCE HERE SOMETIME, THAT DOESN'T ALLOW A VIEW THROUGH. THAT IS CERTAINLY POSSIBLE. WE JUST HAVE TO PREVENT, BECAUSE THE RAMP GOING DOWN THE GUARDRAIL, BASICALLY, ON THE RAMP. SO, LOOK AT THE MODEL VIEWS FOR A SECOND. THIS ALSO SHOWS YOU A SECTION THROUGH THAT RAMP. YOU CAN SEE HOW IT GOES DOWNHILL. SO FOR THE FIRST 25 FEET OF THE PROPERTY HERE, THERE'S NOTHING I'LL SAY ABOVE GRADE WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THIS PLAZA RIGHT HERE. SO THE THREE STORY PORTION OF THE BUILDING STARTS 25 FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE. THEN I BELIEVE IT'S ABOUT 42 FEET FROM THE NORTH PROPERTY LINE TO THE BUILDING. 35 FEET IS TO THE DECK HERE, AS I SAID. WE

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THEY ARE METAL PANEL, AND THEY ARE GLASS. OWNERSHIP REQUESTED AS MUCH GLASS AS WE COULD MAKE WORK WITH THE ELEVATION. SO, THE PERCENTAGES OF THAT WERE ABOUT 55% BRICK. ABOUT 13% METAL SIDING, AND ABOUT 32% GLASS. SO A THIRD OF THE BUILDING IS GLASS. IT HAS BEEN DESIGNED IN A MID CENTURY MODERN, IN TERMS OF WE WOULD LIKE TO SAY MARRY THE MERCHANT'S ARCHITECTURE. THE OWNERSHIP IS RELATED. SO, THEY WOULD LIKE THE BUILDING TO LOOK LIKE IT FITS WITH THE MERCHANT'S BUILDINGS. THE INTENT WAS TO USE COMPLIMENTARY BRICK. COMPLIMENTARY HORIZONTAL LINES. COMPLIMENTARY GLASS AND ALUMINUM FRAMING, AND OKAY. I GUESS THERE IT IS. THIS IS THE RESUBMITTED DRAWING WE SENT YESTERDAY. IT SHOWS JUST A ROD IRON RAILING AT THE TOP OF THE RAMP HERE. THIS WOULD BE ALL UNDER GRADE, OF COURSE. THIS IS THE GRADE RIGHT TO THE BOTTOM OF THE RAMP HERE. I'M SORRY, RIGHT TO THE BOTTOM OF THE WALL. AS I SAID, THAT COULD BE REPLACED WITH A FENCE, IF SOMEONE WOULD RATHER SEE THAT. THE -- LET ME GET TO THE ADLS PACKAGE. THESE ARE SOME RENDERINGS THAT SHOW THE BASIC MASSING OF THE BUILDING. AS YOU CAN SEE, HERE'S THE PLAZA, AND THE PROPOSED SCULPTURE THAT IS PLANNED FOR THAT AREA. THIS IS THE ENTRANCE TO MERCHANT'S NEW BUILDING. THIS IS THE ENTRANCE TO THE EIGHT CONDOMINIUMS. YOU SEE THERE AGAIN, AND THIS IS THE ELEVATION THAT WILL BE ALONG 3RD AVENUE. GIVES YOU SOME ADDITIONAL VIEWS. THIS WOULD BE LOOKING FROM THE NORTH BACK SOUTH TO THAT CORNER. YOU CAN SEE THE BUILDING KIND OF STEPS ALONG 3RD AVENUE ADJACENT TO THAT DUKE EASEMENT THAT EXISTS THERE. YOU KNOW, THE BALCONIES.

AND THIS WOULD BE THE VIEW BETWEEN -- THIS IS BUCKINGHAM'S BUILDING HERE, IF YOU'VE SEEN THE ENTRANCE TO THEIR BUILDING AND THE MERCHANT'S ADDITION IS HERE. THIS IS THE VIEW DOWN THE CORRIDOR FROM THE SOUTH. SO THAT IS THE ENTRANCE TO THE CONDOMINIUMS THERE. THIS PLAZA TO THE SOUTH HERE IS, THIS IS THE STAIR EXIT FROM THE BUILDING. THEN THERE'S AN AREA HERE THAT COMES OUT AND STEPS DOWN TO THE PLAZA AS A SECOND EXIT FROM THE BUILDING. LET'S SEE. LIKE MERCHANTS.

>> DAN, COULD YOU GO BACK TO THAT RENDERING FOR JUST A SECOND? AND JUST POINT OUT WHERE THE PROPERTY LINE -- BETWEEN THE BUILDING. I MEAN, IS IT THE EDGE OF THE GREEN AREA?

>> RIGHT HERE. THE PROPERTY LINE TO THE SOUTH, LET ME SEE IF IT SHOWS ON THIS PLAN. YEAH. THERE'S THE PROPERTY LINE RIGHT THERE. SO THAT BLACK LINE AND IT HAS THIS WEIRD LITTLE NOTCH AT THE CORNER THAT GOES OUT. BUT THAT'S OUR PROPERTY LINE. THEN OVER HERE, IT CONTINUES TO 3RD AVENUE. THAT'S THE TRIANGLE I WAS TALKING ABOUT. THOSE ARE THE STREET TREES THAT WE PROPOSED.

YOU CAN SEE HOW THEY OVERLAP THE DUKE EASEMENT. SO THAT IS WHERE WE NEED TO TALK WITH DUKE ABOUT THAT. AS FAR AS CONSTRUCTION OF THE BUILDING, WOULD BE VERY SIMILAR TO THE MERCHANT'S ADDITION. THE MERCHANT'S ADDITION SITE WAS VERY TIGHT, OBVIOUSLY, WITH 3RD AVENUE, WITH BUCKINGHAM DOING THEIR THING. WE HAVE INDUSTRIAL DRIVE TO THE SOUTH, AND SO WE REALLY

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YOU HERE. >> THANK YOU, DAN. WE'LL GO TO THE PUBLIC HEARING NOW, AND THEN BETWEEN STAFF AND LEAH AND I, WE PROBABLY HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS. THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING.

NORMALLY WITH THE PLAN COMMISSION RULES, RESIDENTS HAVE 20 MINUTES. WE HAVE A 20 MINUTE -- SO IF THERE'S ANYONE HERE

THAT WANTS TO SPEAK. >> HOW MANY DO WE HAVE TOTAL THAT WANT TO SPEAK? RAISE YOUR HAND, SO WE KNOW. THREE? OKAY.

SO FIVE MINUTES EACH. OKAY. >> YUP. YES.

>> MY NAME IS MARY AND MY PROPERTY IS THE NORTH SIDE OF THIS. SO MY BIG CONCERN IS THE FACT THAT MY PRIVACY WILL BE COMPLETELY ELIMINATED. WITH THE THREE STORY BUILDING, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE LOOKING RIGHT INTO MY BACKYARD. RIGHT NOW, I HAVE THE CONDOS BEHIND ME THAT CAN LOOK IN MY BACKYARD AND MERCHANTS, BUT THEY ARE FAR ENOUGH AWAY SO I DON'T FEEL THAT INTRUSION, BUT WITH A BUILDING THIS CLOSE TO MY PROPERTY LINE, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE LOOKING IN MY BACKYARD AND SEEING WHAT'S GOING ON ALL THE TIME. AT THIS POINT, MERCHANTS IS NOT, OR WHOEVER IS IN CHARGE, HAS NOT GOTTEN IN TOUCH WITH ME TO SEE WHAT PRIVACY FENCING THEY ARE GOING TO PUT ALONG MY AREA, BECAUSE INDIANA BELL HAS A CHAIN LINK FENCE THAT THEY PUT IN YEARS AGO THAT THEY DID NOT TAKE CARE OF AND THERE'S ALL SORTS OF WEEDS AND EVERYTHING ELSE OVER THERE. NO ONE HAS APPROACHED ME ABOUT CLEANING THAT UP AND PUTTING UP A PRIVACY FENCE SO KEEP MY BACKYARD PRIVATE. AND SO THOSE ARE MY BIG CONCERNS. THE PLANNING COMMISSION USED TO DO AN AMAZING JOB KEEPING THESE HUGE BUILDINGS OUT OF DOWNTOWN CARMEL, AND NOW I JUST FEEL LIKE WE'RE LIVING IN INDIANAPOLIS, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, I LOOK OUTSIDE MY BACK DOOR AND THERE'S ALL OF THESE FIVE, SIX STORY BUILDINGS WHERE I USED TO SEE SKY. I WOULD HOPE THAT WHOEVER THE PEOPLE ARE THAT ARE IN CHARGE OF THIS BUILDING, IT WOULD BE PERFECT IF YOU COULD, I KNOW YOU DON'T WANT TO DO THIS, BUT GET RID OF ONE OF THE LAYERS, ONE OF THE LEVELS BECAUSE THAT WOULD GIVE ME A LITTLE BIT MORE PRIVACY. I JUST LOST ALL OF MY PRIVACY AT THIS POINT. I THANK YOU FOR LISTENING

TO ME. >> WHO IS NEXT? OKAY.

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>> HI. I'M CHARLIE DEMLER. I'M SURE YOU BOTH KNOW ME. I RUN A NEIGHBORHOOD FACEBOOK PAGE. WE HAVE 200 MEMBERS IN MY GROUP, AS OF RIGHT NOW. I PUT THIS OUT THERE ON OUR FACEBOOK PAGE AND EVERYONE IS ALL IN AGREEMENT, LIKE MARY TAKED ABOUT, LIKE OTHERS HAVE TALKED ABOUT. I KNOW YOU HAVE GOTTEN E-MAILS FROM NEIGHBORS. CARMEL PUT IN PLACE A BUFFER ZONE FOR A REASON. CARMEL DOESN'T LISTEN, DOESN'T PAY ATTENTION TO THAT BUFFER ZONE

ANYMORE. >> OKAY, HANG ON, CHARLIE.

>> IS MY TIME GOING TO STOP? >> HANG ON. WE'RE GOING TO PAUSE YOUR TIME. OUR FRIEND IS BACK.

>> HE WON'T HURT ANYONE. >> I'M NOT SURE.

>> HE WON'T HURT ANYONE. HE IS TRYING TO HIDE.

>> WELL, LET'S LET HIM LAY SOMEWHERE. HE WAS BEING SO QUIET. YOU MADE HIM MAD. CAN WE CALL SOMEBODY THAT WAS UP HERE BEFORE THAT WAS TRYING TO CAPTURE HIM? OH, HE'S GOING TO

GO OUT WITH DAN. >> CAN WE TAKE A RECESS?

>> CAN WE JUST PAUSE FOR A SECOND? WHOEVER WAS UP HERE WORKING ON GETTING HIM OUT EARLIER, WOULD YOU PLEASE HE? A RIGHT. WELL, SORRY. IT'S SO DARK IN HERE. THAT'S BETTER THAN THE ALTERNATIVE, I THINK. THANKS, EVERYONE, FOR YOUR PATIENCE. WE'LL RESTART YOUR FIVE MINUTES. SO WE'RE RECONVENED. ARE YOU READY TO START? OKAY. OKAY. THE OKAY,

OKAY, CHARLIE, GO AHEAD. >> JUST TO RECAP. CARMEL HAS THEIR OWN ORDINANCES IN PLACE, OR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT, THAT 35 FEET BACK. NO ZERO LOTS. AND IT JUST SEEMS LIKE THIS IS JUST COMPLETELY AGAINST WHAT CARMEL ALREADY HAS IN PLACE.

EVERYONE ON MY FACEBOOK PAGE AGREES THAT BASICALLY ZERO LOT, UP NEXT TO A NEIGHBORHOOD, OKAY, SO REAL FAST. THIS IS MARY'S HOUSE, WHO JUST SPOKE RIGHT HERE. THIS IS ALL HER PROPERTY.

THIS PROPERTY HERE IS TWO DOORS FROM MY HOUSE. THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE THE FULL BRUNT OF THIS BACK TO THIS CORNER LOT HERE. I AM IN THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE HAS BEEN A BID PLACED ON THIS PROPERTY, AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS WHOLE HEARING PUT ON A HOLD UNTIL AFTER THE FIRST OF THE YEAR, GET THEM TIME TO GET THEIR BID IN PLACE, GET THE PROPERTY BOUGHT, AND LET THAT PERSON THAT OWNS ALL THAT PROPERTY LINE RIGHT THERE HAVE A SAY IN WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. I HAVE TALKED WITH THE GENTLEMAN WHO BOUGHT THIS HOUSE AND I DON'T KNOW IF HE EVEN GOT THE NOTIFICATION. HE JUST BOUGHT IT A FEW WEEKS AGO, AND THIS IS MY HOUSE. I'M NOT DIRECTLY AFFECTED BY THIS. BUT I FIND IT INTERESTING THAT CARMEL WANTS TO BUILD AND BUILD AND BUILD. RIGHT NOW, I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE IN HERE KNOWS, THE VACANCY RATE IN CARMEL IS 11.1%. THAT MIGHT NOT SEEM LIKE IT'S VERY HIGH, BUT INDIANA IS 7.1%. THE NATION IS 6%. SO, CARMEL IS ALMOST TWICE AS HIGH VACANCY RATE AS THE WHOLE NATION. THAT OUGHT TO SAY SOMETHING RIGHT THERE. WE DON'T NEED ANYMORE APARTMENTS. IF THEY ARE GOING TO PUT THEM IN, DON'T HAVE A ZERO LINE HERE. GET SOME BUFFERING. I ALSO HAVE MET WITH BUCKINGHAM LAST WEEK, AND AS YOU KNOW, UNPRECEDENTED 6 STORY BUILDING RIGHT THERE FROM BUCKINGHAM. THEY HAVE BEEN VERY NICE NEIGHBORS, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU. I'M VERY PLEASED WITH THEM. LAST WEEK WHEN I TALKED TO THEM, IT WAS EITHER 13 OR 15 TREES THROUGH HERE BUFFERING MY PROPERTY. THERE'S GOING TO BE 8 BUSHES BUFFERING MY PROPERTY.

THERE'S GOING TO BE AN 8-FOOT FENCE BUFFERING MY PROPERTY.

NOW, THAT'S PRETTY GOOD NEIGHBOR. THIS SUCKS. IF THEY ARE NOT GOING TO PUT ANYTHING OTHER THAN A LITTLE FENCE THERE, NO TREES TO BUFFER? I CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY A COMPANY WOULD DO THAT TO THEIR NEIGHBOR. BUCKINGHAM HAS BEEN A GREAT NEIGHBOR. AGAIN. ZERO LOT IS JUST, LISTEN TO YOUR OWN RULES FOR THE CITY OF CARMEL. AND AGAIN, I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT PAUSE UNTIL NEXT YEAR TO GIVE THIS RESIDENT HERE WHO WILL

[00:25:05]

>> THANK YOU. DAVE.

>> I'M DAVE. I THINK OVERALL, IT'S NOT THE LAND AND WHAT'S GOING IN HERE. I WORKED WITH DAN BEFORE. THEY DEFINITELY TRY. I THINK MY BIGGEST QUESTION OR CONCERN WOULD BE THE BZA ORIGINALLY, WHEN WE HAD THE ORIGINAL DEAL, THIS WAS ALL, LET'S JUST BE HONEST, IT WAS ALL DEVELOPMENT. MERCHANTS, BUCKINGHAM, PURE DEVELOPMENT, AS WELL AS THE LOTS IN QUESTION OVER HERE WHEN DAN MENTIONED THAT THEY HAVE A HOMEOWNER, THAT HAS GRANTED A CONSTRUCTION EASEMENT. LET'S JUST BE HONEST.

THE HOMEOWNER IS NOT A HOMEOWNER. IT'S PURE DEVELOPMENT, WHICH IS INTERTWINED WITH ALL OF THIS.

FOR YOU TO HAVE THE APPROVAL, THAT'S WHY THE LOT IS STILL FOR SALE. THE BIGGEST ISSUE THAT I HAVE AS I LOOK AT THIS IS, YOU ARE TAKING THE WESTERN VIEW OVER HERE AND THE NORTHERN VIEW HERE WITH NO TREES, NO BUFFER, NO ANYTHING FOR THOSE RESIDENTS, BUT YET ALL ALONG THIS PROJECT LIMITS AND TRAFFIC ALONG 3RD , THERE'S PLENTY OF TREES. IT MAKES IT LOOK LIKE IT'S ALL INTERTWINED. THE ONE QUESTION I HAVE FOR DAN AND THOSE GUYS AND THE OWNERSHIP INTEREST IS THERE NOT A WAY TO HAVE THE DRIVEWAY COMING THROUGH RIGHT OFF OF 3RD AVENUE OVER HERE? AND HAVE THAT GO UNDER GROUND SO THIS AREA COULD EITHER SHIFT UP A LITTLE NORTH AND ALLOW FOR THE UNDER GROUND PARKING OR THE ACCESS TO COME IN FROM THE SOUTH VERSUS COMING IN FROM THE NORTH AND THEN HEADING SOUTH, BECAUSE THAT'S REALLY IN ESSENCE, CREATING NOT ONLY A RAMP. IT MIGHT HAVE SOME DRAINAGE ISSUES THAT HAPPEN BECAUSE THERE WILL HAVE A TO BE A BIG CUTOUT. THAT WOULD BE MY BIGGEST ISSUE FOR CONCERN FOR THE RESIDENTS ALL ALONG HERE. ZERO LOT LINE. NO TREES, BUT THE PLACEMENT OF THIS LONG DRIVEWAY SEEMS LIKE IT IS CANNIBALIZING A HUGE PORTION OF THE PROPERTY ITSELF VERSUS IF THERE WAS A WAY TO SHIFT THE ENTRANCE TO THE SOUTH, EVEN THOUGH IT IS CLOSER TO THE WALKWAY. THIS IS ALL CONTAINED IN THE OVERALL BUCKINGHAM PURE DEVELOPMENT ITSELF. SO, IF THAT GROUP OWNERSHIP INTEREST HAS TO SACRIFICE A LITTLE BIT WITH THE RAMP, THOSE THREE PROJECTS ARE ALL INTERTWINED. AND THERE'S NOT THAT MUCH TRAFFIC THAT IS GOING TO RESULT FROM 14 CARS THAT COULDN'T MAKE THIS A LITTLE BIT MORE PALATABLE. THAT'S MY TWO CENTS. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. >> WOULD ANYONE ELSE LIKE TO SPEAK? DAN, YOU HAVE FIVE MINUTES TO ADDRESS ANY OF THE

ISSUES. >> WE APPRECIATE THE COMMENTS.

TRY TO ADDRESS ONE OR TWO HERE. FOR MARY'S PROPERTY, FROM LOOKING, WE'RE SET, IF YOU CAN SEE THE DOTTED LINES HERE, THAT'S A DRAINAGE EASEMENT RIGHT HERE. WE ACTUALLY -- I'VE LOOKED AT MOVING. WE REALLY CAN'T MOVE THE PROJECT, AS YOU CAN SEE, WE'RE RIGHT ON THE LINE THERE AND THEN WE'RE RIGHT AT THAT CORNER THERE ON THE DUKE EASEMENT. SO, THAT IS A BOUNDARY RIGHT THERE. SO THAT'S WHAT, AND THIS CURB CUT IS THERE.

THAT'S WHAT DROVE US TO REUSE THE CURB CUT THAT WAS UP THERE.

AND THEN THE AT&T PROPERTY UP HERE, AS FOR AS I STARTED TO TALK ABOUT THE VIEW INTO MARY'S YARD. SO TO THE EXTENT. WE TALKED TO THE CITY, I THINK JAMES, OUR LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT TALKED TO THE CITY ARBORIST ABOUT WHAT TREES WE CAN PUT AND BUFFER WE CAN PUT ON NORTH END OF THE PROPERTY HERE TO MARY'S PROPERTY, THE ONLY THING IS WORKING WITH AT&T AND THEIR

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IF A FENCE IS A BETTER IDEA, WE WOULD BE WILLING TO LOOK AT A FENCE AS WELL. AND ON THIS SIDE, AND THE BUILDING ITSELF, IS ABOUT 40 FEET AWAY. AND THREE STORIES TALL. I UNDERSTAND THE CONCERN, BUT I GUESS MY DAUGHTER ACTUALLY LIVED IN THAT APARTMENT AT ONE POINT. THIS IS FIVE STORIES TALL HERE, AND I JUST DON'T BELIEVE -- I'M NOT I GUESS CONVINCED THAT THERE WILL BE MUCH -- YOU CAN SEE THESE TWO LARGE TREES HERE. I WALK BY HERE ABOUT EVERY DAY. THIS IS WELL GROWN IN HERE. I FEEL LIKE BEING THE DISTANCE WE ARE AND THE LOWER HEIGHT THAT WE ARE, THE CONCERN OR LOOKING INTO THE BACKYARD HERE WILL NOT BE QUITE AS BIG OF A CONCERN AS MAYBE IT COULD BE. BUT I UNDERSTAND. THE

OTHER COMMENT HERE -- >> DAN, I'M SORRY. YOU ARE

ABOUT TO GET INTERRUPTED. >> OH, PLEASE DON'T LET HIM GO.

>> JUST PUT THE WHOLE CODE IN THERE. YEAH.

>> I HAVE AN IDEA.

>> WILL THE BAT BE HARMED IF WE JUST LEAVE HIM THERE FOR THE REST OF THE MEETING, I'M WONDERING? WILL HE BE OKAY?

YEAH. SPACES, RIGHT? >> NO FIVE MINUTE RECESS?

>> WE SHOULD BE GOOD UNTIL THE END.

>> I THINK WE'RE OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, SORRY, DAN, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY.

>> AND THE BUFFER YARD, I UNDERSTAND THE BUFFER YARD QUESTION AGAIN, BUT IF YOU CAN SEE, IF YOU TOOK A 35-FOOT LINE THROUGH THE SITE THERE, THAT DOESN'T LEAVE ENOUGH REALLY TO BUILD ANYTHING. SO , HE'S RIGHT. PURE OWNS THESE TWO HOUSES STILL. IT SOUNDS LIKE ONE OF THEM SOLD. I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THE OTHER ONE SELLING, BUT AGAIN, REPLACING THIS WITH A FENCE IS AN OPTION, I THINK, IF THAT'S MORE PALATABLE TO THE

NEIGHBORHOOD. >> WHAT'S THAT?

>> HEY CHARLIE, WE DON'T TAKE COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE,

THANK YOU. >> IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, I

WOULD BE HAPPY TO ANSWER THEM. >> CAN WE HAVE -- THANKS. CAN WE HAVE THE DEPARTMENT REPORT, PLEASE? REPORTS.

>> YES. THANK YOU, RACHEL, PLANNER WITH DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY SERVICES. AS WE HAVE HEARD, THIS IS A PROPOSAL FOR A NEW CONDOMINIUM BUILDING, WHICH IS PROPOSED ADJACENT TO THE MERCHANTS BANK AND THE BUCKINGHAM APARTMENT BUILDING.

PREVIOUSLY, THIS SITE HAD BEEN PROPOSED TO BE AN OFFICE BUILDING THAT TOOK OVER PART OF THE RESIDENTIAL LOTS TO THE WEST. THAT IS NOT THE CASE ANYMORE. AND THIS PROJECT WILL BE COMPLETELY CONTAINED ON THIS PARCEL THAT IS ZONED C-2, AND IS ABOUT HALF AN ACRE LOT. TALKING ABOUT THE BUILDING, IT IS DESIGNED TO COMPLIMENT THE OTHER BUILDINGS NEARBY WITH SLEEK, CLEAN LINES, AND MID CENTURY MODERN STYLE. THE BUILDING MATERIALS ARE BRICK, METAL PANELING THAT HAS A WOOD LOOK.

CONCRETE AND GLASS. EIGHT UNITS WITHIN THE BUILDING. PARKING IS IN THE GARAGE UNDERNEATH AS WE HEARD. 18 SPACES IN TOTAL. THE LOT COVERAGE IS AT 79%, WHICH IS JUST UNDER THE 80% THAT IS ALLOWED IN THE C-2 DISTRICT. SITE LIGHTING IS CONTAINED TO LIGHTS AT EXTERIOR DOORS OF BALCONIES AND THE ENTRANCE AS WELL AS LIGHTS THAT WILL ILLUMINATE THE DRIVEWAY DOWN.

THEY ARE INSTALLED INTO THE WALL OF THE DRIVEWAY GOING DOWN UNDER THE BUILDING. LET'S SEE. LANDSCAPING IS LIMITED TO THE NORTH AND THE EAST PARTS OF THE LOT. BECAUSE OF THE SMALL SIZE

[00:35:06]

AND HE HAS SIGNED OFF ON THE PLAN SHOULD IT BE ALLOWED FOR THEM TO PUT THOSE TREES IN TO THOSE EASEMENTS, WHICH WE DON'T KNOW YET, WHICH IS WHY THEY ARE ASKING FOR THE VARIANTS. BICYCLE PARKING HAS BEEN PROVIDED. IT WILL BE NEAR THE ENTRANCE AT THE SOUTHEAST CORNER TO THE BUILDING. AND WE ARE STILL WORKING THROUGH REVIEW COMMENTS ON PROJECT DOCKS, WHICH IS NOT UNCOMMON. MOST OF THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT COMMENTS HAVE BEEN TAKEN CARE OF AND ADDRESSED. THE MAIN DEPARTMENT THAT HASN'T BEEN OR THAT STILL HAS TO FINISH THEIR REVIEW IS ENGINEERING. WE HAVE SIGN OFF FROM THE CRC, THE OCS, URBAN FORESTRY, FIRE, AND UTILITIES. AND NOW I WILL TURN IT OVER TO ANGIE TO TALK ABOUT

THE VARIANCES SPECIFICALLY. >> THANK YOU, ANGIE CONN, THERE ARE THREE VARIANCE REQUESTS BEFORE YOU THIS AFTERNOON, THIS MORNING. ONE IS FOR THE BUFFER YARDS AND THE C-2 ZONING DISTRICT REQUIRES A SUFFER BUFFER YARD EQUAL TO THE BUILDING HEIGHT OF THE NEAREST BUILDING TO EACH SIDE NOT TO EXCEED 35 FEET, AND 0 FEET IS REQUESTED ALSO WITHIN EACH BUFFER YARD, THERE'S A CERTAIN NUMBER OF PLANTINGS REQUIRED, SUCH AS DECORATIVE TREES, GRASSES, SHRUBS PER LINEAL FOOT.

AND THAT IS SPELLED OUT IN THE STAFF REPORT. PLANNING STUFF DOES SUGGEST IF POSSIBLE, THAT THE PETITIONER CONSIDER ADDING IN A FEW MORE PLANTINGS IN THAT NORTHERN AREA, NORTH OF THE BUILDING. THERE APPEARS TO BE SOME AREA FOR OPPORTUNITY.

PLANNING STAFF ALSO WOULD LIKE THE PETITIONER TO CONSIDER ERECTING A PRIVACY FENCE ALONG THE WEST AND NORTH PROPERTY LINES TO HELP WITH THE PRIVACY AND SCREENING CONCERNS OF THE NEIGHBORS. AND THEN MOVING ON TO THE BUILDING HEIGHT, VARIANCE REQUEST, THE MAXIMUM ALLOWED IS 35 FEET AND THEY ARE REQUESTING THE BUILDING ACTUALLY IS LOWER IN HEIGHT, CLOSEST TO THE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES AND STEPS UP IN HEIGHT AS IT GETS CLOSER TO 3RD AVENUE. PLANNING STAFF IS SUPPORTIVE OF THIS VARIANCE REQUEST SINCE IT IS FOR A FEW FEET AND ALSO WILL ALSO CONTAIN WALLS, WHICH WILL SCREEN ROOFTOP MECHANICALS, THINGS LIKE THAT.

BUT THAT ADDITIONAL WALL HEIGHT IS NOT INCLUDED IN THE BUILDING HEIGHT MEASUREMENT. WE WOULD ALSO LIKE TO LET YOU KNOW THAT THE NORTH SIDE OF THE BUILDING WILL BE AROUND 43 FEET AWAY FROM THE NORTH PROPERTY LINE AND THE WEST SIDE OF THE BUILDING WILL HAVE A SET BACK AROUND 25 FEET. JUST TO LET YOU KNOW THAT IT WILL BE SET BACK TO KIND OF HELP WITH THAT DISTANCE FOR BUFFERING AND BUILDING HEIGHT AND SITE LINES, AND THINGS LIKE THAT. THE THIRD VARIANCE REQUEST IS FOR STREET TREES. SHADE STREET TREES ARE REQUIRED TO BE PLANTED WITHIN THE STREET RIGHT OF WAY, PARALLEL TO THE STREET. IN THIS INSTANCE, WITH THE RECENT 3RD AVENUE SOUTHWEST STREET PROJECT, IT IS VERY NARROW WITH THE PLANTING AREA BETWEEN THE PATH AND THE STREET RIGHT-OF-WAY. SO THE PETITIONER IS REQUESTING TO PLANT FIVE TREES WITHIN THEIR FRONT YARD AREA AND PLANNING STAFF IS SUPPORTIVE OF THAT VARIANCE AS WELL. SO WITH ALL THINGS SAID, PLANNING STAFF IS SUPPORTIVE OF THE VARIANCE REQUEST WITH THE CONDITIONS OF THE PETITION ADDRESSING THE FENCE CONCERN AND ADDRESSING THE REMAINING REVIEW COMMENTS AND PROJECT DOCKS. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. THIS IS A REDEVELOPMENT PROJECT AND IT IS PRACTICE THAT WE ALLOW THE REDEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT TO MAKE A STATEMENT ABOUT THE PROJECT AND WE MAY HAVE A QUESTION OR

TWO FOR YOU AS WELL. >> HI, EVERYONE, MY NAME IS LARYSA. OUR COMMISSION MET LAST NIGHT TO REVIEW THIS PROJECT AND VOTED IN FAVOR WHILE SUPPORTING THE PROJECT TODAY AS IT COMES IN

[00:40:01]

>> THANK YOU. I GUESS I DO HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE ENGINEERING REVIEW. DO WE HAVE ZERO COMMENTS ON THAT? OR DO WE KNOW WHAT IS

GOING ON WITH THAT? >> ALL THE COMMENTS FROM ADLS, FROM PROJECT DOCS HAVE BEEN RESPONDED AND REFILED. I DON'T THINK WE KNOW OF ANY OUTSTANDING COMMENTS. ON THE ARCHITECTURE SITE OR THE ENGINEERING SIDE PRESENTED COMMENTS.

>> IF I COULD ADD TO THAT, IT'S JUST THE TIMING. WE DIDN'T -- WE GOT THEM BACK LATE YESTERDAY, SO THEY LIKELY HAVE NOT HAD TIME TO GO THROUGH THE COMMENTS BEFORE THIS HEARING.

>> OKAY. DAN, CAN YOU COME BACK UP? SO, I GUESS THE ISSUE OF FENCING AND BUFFERING, YOU KNOW, WITH MRS. SAGE, IS THAT RIGHT? AND CAN YOU, AND MAYBE WE'RE EARLY IN THE CONVERSATION HERE ABOUT COMMITMENTS, BUT I THINK REACHING OUT AND ADDRESSING HER ISSUES SPECIFICALLY, WHETHER OR NOT THAT HAS BEEN EXTENDED PRIVACY FENCE, CHARLIE MENTIONED THERE'S AN 8-FOOT ALREADY AND MAYBE THAT GETS CONTINUED FOR, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ROOM FOR LANDSCAPE PLANTINGS ON YOUR PROPERTY, BUT TO WORK OUT SOMETHING AND THEN KEEP US IN THE LOOP SO THAT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN HAVE A RECORD OF THAT ULTIMATELY.

>> YES. SORRY. I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAID. YEAH, WE CAN LOOK AT -- I WAS JUST THINKING. I THINK AT&T CONTROLS THAT BOX RIGHT THERE. IS THAT RIGHT, ALEX?

>> YES. >> SO TO THE EXTENT WE CAN PUT A FENCE ALONG HERE, PLANNING, WE CERTAINLY WOULD LIKE TO. AND WE'LL DO EVERYTHING WE CAN. AND WORK WITH ENGINEERING ON THE DRAINAGE SIDE OF IT, IF THEY WILL LET US.

>> I MEAN, THAT'S A LITTLE TOUGHER. THAT IS THE 36-INCH PIPE. I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW. 2018, 2019, THAT DRAINS JOHNSON ADDITION. THAT'S A NEEDED IMPROVEMENT. SO IT'S SACRED

GROUND. >> OKAY.

>> I DO APPRECIATE, DAVE, YOUR THOUGHT ON RELOCATING THE DRIVE, BUT I MEAN, THAT IS AN EMERGENCY DRIVE NOW ONLY AND THAT'S THE PUBLIC PLAZA. AND TO HAVE KIND OF -- I KNOW IT'S EIGHT UNITS, SO STEADY FLOW IS PROBABLY AN EXAGGERATION, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT WE WANT TO ENCOURAGE A PRIVATE USE IN THAT PUBLIC PLAZA. I DO HAVE A FEW -- A LIST OF THINGS. ON THE WEST PROPERTY LINE, DAN, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS THE RIGHT DRAWING. BUT ON THE DEMO PLAN, IT SHOWS THAT THE CHAIN LINK FENCE IS GOING TO BE MAINTAINED OR LEFT IN PLACE. AND -- I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE PROXIMITY OF THAT EDGE OF THE WALL TO THE PROPERTY LINE AND OVER KIND OF THE OVER EXCAVATION THAT IS, YOU KNOW, WILL ENCROUCH ON THE NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY. AND THEN YOU KNOW, THE PROTECTION OF THE TREES THAT EXIST IN THAT AREA. I KNOW THAT THERE'S A POWER LINE EASEMENT ON BOTH SIDES, OR AT

[00:45:01]

>> I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN PULL UP A DEMO PLAN.

>> DO WE HAVE DRAWINGS DOWN HERE SOMEWHERE? IF YOU CAN JUST ZOOM IN. IT SAYS THAT .9 FEET. THAT'S THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE EDGE OF THE WALL AND THE PROPERTY LINE? OR

IS THAT -- >> I THINK THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE PROPERTY LINE AND THE CHAIN LINK FENCE.

THAT'S THE EXISTING CHAIN LINK FENCE, AND THAT'S THE PROPERTY LINE. THAT'S THE FENCE THAT WOULD BE COMING OUT.

>> CAN YOU GET A LITTLE CLOSER TO THE MICROPHONE?

>> OKAY, SORRY. ITEM REMAIN, THAT'S WRONG, RIGHT? WE HAVE TO

TAKE THAT OUT. OKAY. >> THAT'S THE DRAWING THAT WE ARE OPERATING FROM. WHEN DID THAT HAPPEN?

THAT DOESN'T HELP. >> SO WE'LL HAVE THAT CORRECTED

AND COMMIT TO. >> I GUESS, BY CORRECTING IT, THAT FENCE WILL BE REMOVED AND THEN HOW DO WE PROTECT THE VEGETATION ON THE ADJACENT PROPERTY?

>> WE ACTUALLY HAVE NO -- OUR FOOTINGS ARE ZERO LOT LINE FOOTINGS. I THINK IT IS REASONABLE TO PUT TREE PROTECTION AROUND. I WOULD HAVE TO GO OUT AND LOOK AT THOSE TREES WITH OUR LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT AND THE ARBORIST FOR THE CITY AND SEE WHAT WE CAN DO TO PROTECT ANY TREES ALONG THAT LINE. I ASSUME THESE ARE ACCURATE. SO THOSE FOUR RIGHT

THERE. >> SOME BIG CONFERS THERE. AND AS FAR AS SAFETY FENCING. WILL THERE BE A CHAIN LINK FENCE?

>> A CONSTRUCTION FENCE. >> IT WON'T BE THE VINYL THOUGH, IT WILL BE A LEGIT CHAIN LINK FENCE.

>> YES. WHEN YOU SAY VINYL, YOU MEAN THE SLATS THROUGH THE CHAIN LINK? OH. WE CAN COMMIT TO A LEGITIMATE 6-FOOT TALL CONSTRUCTION FENCE FOR PROTECTION DURING CONSTRUCTION.

>> WITH THAT DEEP EXCAVATION. IT'S CLOSE TO THE PROPERTY LINE. AND RACHEL, YOU SAID THAT THE LIGHTING PLAN MEETS THE

STANDARDS? >> IT HAS BEEN RESUBMITTED AND

IS NOW IN COMPLIANCE, YES. >> I DON'T KNOW, DAN, DID YOU TOUCH ON WHERE THE MECHANICAL, THE HVAC UNITS?

>> YEAH. AT THIS POINT, AND WE HAVEN'T GOT INTO THE HVAC DESIGN YET, THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT A TYPE OF SYSTEM THAT IS A SPLIT SYSTEM WITH ROOFTOP CONDENSERS, SMALL RESIDENTIAL CONDENSERS. SO, WE ASSUME THERE WOULD BE ABOUT EIGHT. WE WOULD, ON THE PARAPIT, YOU CAN SEE THE DEEPER WELL OVER HERE. SO, WE'LL PLACE THOSE STRATEGICALLY, I GUESS, TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE SCREENED PROPERLY. IF WE NEED TO MOVE THEM TO MAKE SURE THAT IS ACCOMPLISHED, WE CAN CERTAINLY MAKE SURE THEY ARE SCREENED AS

REQUIRED BY THE CODE. >> AND THEN CAN YOU TALK ABOUT HOW THE TRASH DISPOSAL OR RECYCLING WILL BE HANDLED?

>> TRASH IS ALWAYS -- THERE'S A TRASH ROOM DOWN HERE ON THE

[00:50:04]

THEIR RESIDENCE. >> SURE.

>> OUT HERE TO THE DRIVE. >> SO THEY WILL ROLL THEM UP

THAT RAMP AND DOWN THAT RAMP. >> THE RAMP, IT IS A RAMP. IT IS HEATED FOR ICE AND SNOW, BECAUSE WE CAN'T. THERE'S A NOTION AT ONE POINT TO COVER IT, BUT THAT DOESN'T HELP WITH OUR BUFFER OR OUR SEPARATION FROM THE PROPERTY LINE. SO WE AGREED TO LEAVE IT OPEN. AND HEAT IT. BUT YES, THE PROPERTY MANAGER WILL HAVE TO ROLL THOSE BLUE TOTES UP HERE TO THE STREET.

>> THANK YOU. I DON'T WANT TO HOG IT ALL.

>> ARE YOU SURE? >> YEAH, GO AHEAD.

>> YOU WERE ON A ROLL. I WAS GOING TO LET YOU KEEP GOING.

OKAY. LET'S SEE. I WANT TO START WITH THE TREES, I THINK, BECAUSE IN THAT DRAWING, THAT'S WHERE YOU WOULD IDEALLY LIKE THEM TO HAVE THEM, WHICH WOULD BE IN COMPLIANCE AND NOT REQUIRE A VARIANCE. WE'RE NOT SURE THAT DUKE IS GOING TO APPROVE THAT.

SO THAT'S WHAT THE VARIANCE IS FOR. WHAT REQUESTED IS DIFFERENT THAN THE DRAWING I'M SEEING. I WANT TO MAKE SURE I HAD THAT

CORRECT. >> THERE'S THE DUKE LINE RIGHT THERE. SO IF THEY GAVE US -- IF THEY WON'T LET US PUT THAT TREE THERE, WE WOULD MOVE IT DOWN TO THERE. THEN IT'S NOT TECHNICALLY A STREET TREE. WE ARE TRYING TO, I THINK THE STAFF'S ADVICE, GET THE VARIANCE IN ANTICIPATION THAT IT TAKES AWHILE WITH DUKE TO GET ANYTHING DONE AS EVIDENCE BY THE POLLS THAT CAME DOWN FROM MY BUILDING YESTERDAY, AFTER FOUR YEARS. IT WAS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN TWO YEARS AGO. THEY ARE JUST HARD TO PIN DOWN. SO, THESE TREES, THESE TWO, AND THESE TWO HERE, WE LOVE TO HAVE. OR THOSE THREE THERE, TO THE EXTENT WE CAN LOOK AT A DIFFERENT SPECIES WITH THE ARBORIST OR LOOK AT SOMEHOW MOVING THEM. IT WOULD BE MORE PALATABLE TO DO, WE WOULD

CERTAINLY DO THAT. >> SO IN THE PACKET, THERE WAS A DRAWING THOUGH THAT SHOWED WHERE YOU WOULD PUT THEM THAT WAS WITH THE VARIANCE REQUEST, RIGHT? TO MOVE THEM TO A DIFFERENT PLACE.

DO YOU HAVE THAT DIAGRAM OR DRAWING? SO WE HAVE IT IN THE

MEETING RECORDING? >> WHERE WOULD THE LANDSCAPE BE?

>> TO REFRESH MY MEMORY. >> WHERE IS JAMES?

>> THIS IS THE LANDSCAPE. >> YEAH, THAT'S THE ONE. WHERE ARE YOU PROPOSING I THOUGHT YOU WERE PROPOSING TO PUT THEM SOMEWHERE ELSE. DID I MISREAD THAT?

>> THAT DOESN'T RING A BELL. IF WE WERE TO, OR ARE ONLY

AVAILABLE -- >> OH. YEAH. I AM UNDERSTANDING NOW. OKAY. SO SHADE TREES VERSUS STREET TREES, IS THAT BECAUSE THEY AREN'T ALONG THE STREET? BECAUSE YOU'LL MOVE THEM. WHERE WILL THE LOCATIONS BE? YOU SAID THE ONE WOULD MOVE IN? CAN YOU SHOW WHERE YOU THINK YOU WOULD PUT THEM.

>> THEY DON'T ALLOW US TO. SEE IF I CAN DO THIS. PROBABLY NOT

VERY WELL. >> DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M GETTING AT? I MAY NOT BE ASKING THE RIGHT QUESTION.

>> WELL, ADJACENT TO THE BUILDING HERE. WE HAVE THIS AREA

HERE. >> OKAY.

>> THIS IS PLAZA. >> RIGHT.

>> SO YOU KNOW, DEPENDING ON, AGAIN, KIND OF THE FINAL DISPOSITION OF THE PLAZA DOWN HERE. WE WOULD LIKE TO SHOW TWO THERE, AND THEN WE HAVE ONE MORE SPOT UP HERE THAT IS OUTSIDE THE

[00:55:04]

THERE'S AN AT&T BOX. THERE'S SO MUCH STUFF BACK HERE, THAT WE

DON'T CONTROL. >> RIGHT.

>> WE HAVE TO -- YUP. >> SO ARE YOU COMMITTING THOUGH THAT THE VARIANCE IS FOR DIFFERENT TREES AND DIFFERENT SPOTS AND IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE SAYING YOU WOULD TRY TO GET THEM, EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE NOT STREET TREES NEAR THE STREET, LIKE IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING, RIGHT? SO IS THAT THE COMMITMENT BEING MADE WITH THE VARIANTS OR JUST LEAVING IT OPEN?

>> I THINK I SAY THAT WE COMMIT TO PROVIDING THE TREES WE CAN.

THEY MAY NEED TO CHANGE SPECIES. LIKE IF THE ARBORIST OR LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT SAYS WE WILL TRY TO PUT TREES HERE, MAYBE THEY ARE MORE COLUMNAR OR SOMETHING THAN A STREET TREE MIGHT BE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. IF THAT'S A REASONABLE ANSWER, I WOULD SAY OUR INTENT WOULD BE TO REPLACE THEM ELSEWHERE ON

SITE. >> SO I THINK WHAT I'M GOING FOR, I DON'T WANT TO END UP HAVING THAT WHOLE FRONT OF THE -- OR SIDE, GUESS. THAT IS THE FRONT. OF THE BUILDING ALONG 3RD AVENUE. JUST NO TREES AT ALL. I WANT TO AVOID THAT. EVEN IF IT'S A DIFFERENT SPECIES OR YOU HAVE TO MOVE IT IN OR MOVE THEM AROUND. I DON'T WANT TO, AND I'LL TALK ABOUT THE NORTH SIDE IN A MINUTE. BUT I DON'T WANT IT TO JUST BE, OKAY, NOW THEY'RE GOING ON THE NORTH SIDE BECAUSE THAT DOESN'T CREATE THE FEEL THAT WE WANT ALONG THE STREET, EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE NOT TECHNICALLY STREET TREES. DO YOU HAVE AN OPINION ABOUT THAT AT

ALL? >> I MEAN, OTHER THAN, I MEAN THAT AREA REALLY WHERE THEY ARE SHOWING TREES. EVERYTHING BETWEEN THAT TO THE EAST IS FULL OF UTILITIES. ABSOLUTELY, I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY NOTHING CAN GO IN THERE.

>> RIGHT. >> ALSO DON'T KNOW IF THE THIRD STREET IMPROVEMENT WAS INVOLVED IN THAT. DOES THAT SHOW ANY STREET TREES OR ANYTHING? IS ANYTHING HAPPENING OUT HERE THAT WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT? OR I DON'T KNOW IF THAT IS ALREADY DONE, CONSIDERED DONE AT THIS POINT? ARE THERE OTHER STREET TREES PLANNED BY ANOTHER PROJECT? I'M NOT AWARE OF THAT.

>> I DON'T THINK THERE ARE OTHER TREES THAT IS PART OF A PROJECT. I MEAN, I WOULD SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, THE CITY IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE LOOKING FOR AN OPPORTUNITY TO IMPROVE THING, BUT I'M NOT AWARE OF ANYTHING IN THE PIPELINE.

>> I THINK WHAT I'M GETTING AT, THERE'S A CERTAIN LOOK AND FEEL THAT THE CITY NOT JUST GOES FOR IT, BUT IS IN A LOT OF OUR PLANS AND SO HOW DO WE, MAYBE APPROVE THIS VARIANCE, BUT ENSURE THAT

THERE ARE STILL TREES OUT FRONT. >> THIS WAS A LITTLE BIT EARLIER RENDERING, BUT AS YOU CAN SEE, THERE IS GROUND FLOOR ENTRANCES TO THESE CONDOS, WITH SOME YARD SPACE HERE. AGAIN, THIS WAS EARLIER. ONE OF THE FIRST DRAWINGS WE DID. THE INTENTION IS TO HAVE A NICE YARD WITH PLANTINGS AND GROUND COVER.

WE'RE SHOWING THESE COLUMN TREES THERE ALONG THE FACADE. WE HAVE THE SAME GOALS AS A CITY, ON THIS. WE JUST HAVEN'T HAD THE CHANCE TO TALK TO ALL THE UTILITY COMPANIES AND ENGINEERING TO GET THAT TO HAPPEN.

>> I MEAN, WHILE WE'RE ON LANDSCAPING, DAN, I'M CONFUSED WHICH PLAN. I MEAN, THE PLAN THAT I SEE IN THE FILE THAT HAS DARREN'S APPROVAL DOES NOT HAVE THE SHRUBBERY ON THAT SOUTH PROPERTY LINE. IT DOESN'T SHOW ANY SHRUBBERY. IT JUST SHOWS TREES. AND THAT'S THE PLAN THAT HAS DARREN'S APPROVAL, IF I CAN

ASK STAFF TO ELABORATE. >> I'M NOT QUITE SURE I FOLLOWED YOU. IS THIS THE PLAN THAT GOT UPLOADED?

>> THIS MIGHT BE THE NEW PLAN THAT WAS UPLOADED YESTERDAY THAT

STAFF HASN'T SEEN YET. >> THIS JUST CAME YESTERDAY?

>> IS THAT CORRECT? >> I DON'T KNOW.

>> SO THAT'S A PROBLEM. TIME FRAME. THIS IS SHOWN.

>> YEAH. >> THESE ARE PLANNERS ALONGSIDE THE RAMP AND THE STEPS HERE. AND THEN IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING

[01:00:09]

>> SO THE LANDSCAPING AND THE RENDERING APPEARS TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THIS AND NOT THE ORIGINAL LANDSCAPE PLAN. THE

PERSPECTIVE RENDERING. >> AHH. THIS ONE.

>> OR THE VIEW FROM THE OTHER, BUT YES. AND I THINK IS LARYSA HERE? THAT TRANSITION BETWEEN THE BUILDING AND THE PLAZA AND DAN, THAT'S MY QUESTION ABOUT WHERE THE PROPERTY LINE IS AND

WHOSE RESPONSIBILITY IS WHAT. >> WHEN WE MET WITH BUCKINGHAM TUESDAY AND THEIR CONSTRUCTION TEAM, WE TALKED ABOUT THE IMPACT TO WHAT THEY ARE CURRENTLY PLANNING. THAT WAS THE STORM THAT IS HERE NOW. THERE'S A LITTLE BIGGER CONNECTION THAN WHAT IS PLANNED HERE. WE TALKED ABOUT THE TRANSFORMERS BACK HERE. GETTING THE POWER BACK HERE, AND THEN I'LL SAY THAT THE OWNERSHIP TEAM OF THIS PRECINCT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR CONSTRUCTING THE PLAZA, RIGHT? AND THERE'S NO CITY PROJECT HERE. THERE'S NO OTHER ENTITY OTHER THAN BUCKINGHAM AND THE CONDO OWNERSHIP AND MERCHANTS OWNERSHIP TO BUILD OUT THE PLAZA AS APPROVED. THE DIFFERENCE WOULD BE, AS WE SHOW NOW THAT WE HAVE STEPS HERE THAT WEREN'T THERE BEFORE. SO THIS CONCRETE AND PAVER PATTERN HERE CHANGED A LITTLE BIT. BUT OUR INTENT IS TO SOME OF THE PAVERS HAVE BEEN PURCHASED AND BUCKINGHAM TALKED ABOUT STORING THEM AND THEN GIVING THEM TO THIS CONTRACTOR TO USE AND YOU KNOW, THAT SORT OF THING. THE INTENT IS TO PROVIDE EXACTLY WHAT WAS PLANNED FOR THE PLAZA WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE ENTRANCE TO THE CONDOMINIUM RIGHT AT THAT

CORNER. >> SO IS THAT A PUBLIC ACCESS EASEMENT BETWEEN THE STEPS AND THE RIGHT-OF-WAY THEN?

>> RIGHT HERE. >> YES.

>> I GUESS I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE LEGAL BOUNDARY OF THE PLAZA, THAT'S CONSIDERED -- I MEAN IT WOULD BE ALL OF THIS AREA, RIGHT? INCLUDING THE FIRE LANE? SO, I WOULD ASSUME THAT'S SOME SORT OF PUBLIC ACCESS EASEMENT FOR PEOPLE TO USE THE PLAZA

HERE. >> THAT'S WHAT I THINK.

>> THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN LED TO BELIEVE AS WELL.

>> OKAY. LET'S SEE. SO LET'S TALK ABOUT -- I HAVE TOO MANY NOTES. LET'S TALK ABOUT THE BUILDING HEIGHT, I GUESS. I REALLY DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE BUILDING HEIGHT AT ALL.

THE VARIANCE IS SMALL. STAIR STEPS UP FROM THE RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD TO THE TALLER FIVE AND SIX STORY BUILDINGS AROUND IT. SO I DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUE WITH THAT ONE AT ALL. SO THE BUFFER YARD. SO, I LEARN NEW THINGS ALL THE TIME DOING THIS, SO I JUST THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT THAT NOT HAVING A BUFFER YARD DOESN'T MEAN THERE'S NOT A SETBACK AND THAT THE BUILDING IS SET BACK ON THAT WESTERN BORDER, IS IT 25 FEET? SO THERE IS STILL A SETBACK FROM THE PROPERTY LINE AND IT IS TO THE EDGE OF THE BUILDING, NOT TO THE DRIVE, BECAUSE THAT'S A DRIVEWAY. BUT I DO WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE NEW DRAWINGS THAT YOU

[01:05:04]

>> THE WALL HAS ALWAYS BEEN THERE. WE JUST SHOWED THE FENCE.

I DON'T THINK THE EARLIER DRAWING SHOWED THAT ROD IRON FENCE. THAT WAS A TIMING OVERSIGHT ON OUR PART.

>> WILL YOU PULL UP THAT PICTURE? SO. THAT RAILING. SO YOU SAID -- DID I HEAR YOU SAY EARLIER THAT IT'S A POSSIBILITY TO REPLACE THAT WITH A FENCE OR ADDING A FENCE OR YOU USING RAILING AND FENCE INTERCHANGEABLELY? OKAY.

>> I GUESS MY THOUGHT WAS TRYING TO LEAVE IT FOR DISCUSSION WITH THE GROUP, TODAY, LIKE WHAT WOULD PEOPLE WANT TO SEE? WHAT DOES THE NEIGHBORHOOD WANT TO SEE? WOULD THEY RATHER SEE IT BE OPEN AND IRON? A SHADOW BOX, OR BRICK WITH IRON INBETWEEN? THERE ARE OPTIONS THAT WE CAN LOOK AT AND SHOW IN THE FINAL DRAWINGS.

>> OKAY. I UNDERSTAND NOW. >> AT A MINIMUM, WE NEED THAT,

RIGHT? WE NEED A GUARDRAIL. >> FOR SURE.

>> SO, IT COULD BE, THIS IS THE PLAZA. OOPS. YOU KNOW, IF IT WERE TO GO TO A HIGHER FENCE, YOU KNOW. DOWN THAT SIDE, WE COULD LOOK AT THAT AS WELL, IF IT WAS MORE SOLID. IT'S PERSONAL PREFERENCE. I WOULD RATHER LOOK AT A BUILDING WITH

WINDOWS. >> WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THIS IS THE WALL WITH THE SAFETY RAILING AT THE TOP VERSUS THE OTHER OPTION WOULD BE, AND LIKE YOU SAID, IT'S PREFERENCE. THE FULL THING WOULD BE A FENCE OR RATHER THAN SOLID.

>> CORRECT. IT'S MISLEADING A BIT. THERE'S GRAYED, THE GROUND IS UP HERE, YOU KNOW? ON THE ADJACENT PROPERTY. IT'S SHOWING THE RAMP GO ALL THE WAY DOWN. THE GRADE IS ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, EVEN WITH THE TOP OF THE WALL. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? SO, ALL YOU SEE FROM THE SIDE IS THAT FENCE.

>> RIGHT. >> NOT THAT BIG RAMP WALL GOING

DOWN, OBVIOUSLY. >> NOT WHAT, DAN? I COULDN'T

HEAR YOU. >> WHAT'S THAT?

>> I'M SORRY. YOU ARE TRYING TO GET YOUR MOUSE TO MOVE.

>> SO I GUESS MY THOUGHT, IF THERE'S AN EXISTING FENCE APPROVED OR A FENCE APPROVED ALONG THAT, LIKE YOU SAID, THE NORTH PROPERTY LINE OR YOUR SOUTH PROPERTY LINE AND THIS WOULD FALL INTO THE SAME KIND OF COMMITMENT OF WORKING WITH THE NEW OWNER OF THAT HOUSE AND YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S PLANTINGS ON THEIR SIDE OR A FENCE -- I THINK THAT TO HAVE A CONSISTENT DESIGN TREATMENT MAKES SENSE AND THAT SOUND LIKE IT WAS AN 8-FOOT FENCE. AND RACHEL, DO WE HAVE A DESIGN THAT WE CAN SHARE?

>> OF THE FENCE THAT WAS APPROVED FOR CHARLIE?

>> YES. >> NO, I HAVE NOT BEEN GIVEN

THAT. >> THERE WILL BE CONTEXT, I

THINK. I CAN GET THAT. >> WE PROBABLY NEED THAT FOR THAT FILE, TOO. TO GET THAT UPDATED.

>> SO MIKE, YOU'RE SAYING CONTINUE THAT SO IT IS A CONSISTENT LOOK ALONG THE WEST SIDE OF THIS DEVELOPMENT THEN.

>> IF THAT'S WHAT THE NEW OWNER WANTS. IT COULD BE, LIKE IF HE WANTS SOME KIND OF PLANTINGS ALONG.

>> I WOULD USE EXAMPLE OF THE HISTORICAL SOCIETY WITH THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR, WHERE SHE WAS GOING TO LOSE SOME POTENTIALLY LOSE SOME TREES BACK THERE, AND WE REPLANTED THE TREES ALONG THERE, I THINK AND CLEANED UP THAT PROPERTY LINE ON THE HOUSE PROPERTY TO MAKE IT ACCEPTABLE TO THE HOMEOWNER.

>> YEAH. >> I CAN SEE THAT BEING A SOLUTION HERE. AND WORKING WITH THIS EVENTUAL BUYER THAT GOES THROUGH TO SAY OKAY, WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THERE? AND I

THINK THAT SPEAKS FOR OWNERSHIP. >> DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?

>> YEAH. ITHINK IT SHOULD BE CONSISTENT, BUT YES. TO WORK WITH THE OWNERS THERE AND WHAT IT SOUNDED LIKE, CHARLIE WAS SAYING, THERE'S A FENCE AND TREES AND BUSHES. SO, IT'S ALL

THE ABOVE. >> WE JUST DON'T HAVE ROOM FOR TREES AND BUSHES, BUT IT WOULD FOLLOW THE PROPERTY LINE. NOT

[01:10:05]

>> OKAY, THANK YOU. AND THEN CAN WE DO THE SAME THING THEN, YOU SAID YOU WERE OPEN TO THAT, DOING THE SAME THINGEN O THE NORTH SIDE AS WELL, AND WORKING WITH THAT PROPERTY OWNER?

>> AGAIN, TO THE EXTENT. ENGINEERING. WE HAVE TO TALK TO ENGINEERING AT THAT CORNER, AND I GUESS, I'M NOT SURE WHAT AT&T, WHAT'S THE WORD? PER VIEW IS UP THERE. DO THEY -- I'M NOT SURE WHAT AUTHORITY THEY HAVE TO TELL US WHAT TO DO ON THAT CORNER. BUT AGAIN, TO THE EXTENT. WE LOOKED AT WORKING NORTH TO THE PROPERTY LINE A BIT, IF THAT'S AN IDEA. I THINK THAT IS ALSO A REASONABLE DISCUSSION TO HAVE.

>> OKAY.

>> GO AHEAD AND CHECK NOTES. >> I DON'T REALLY HAVE ANY OTHER ITEMS. I KNOW THERE WAS MAYBE A QUESTION RAISED ABOUT

PUBLIC NOTICE. >> ALL THE PUBLIC NOTICE WAS COMPLETED PROPERLY AND ON TIME TO ALL OF THE CORRECT NEIGHBORS.

>> THANK YOU.

>> I DO WANT TO SAY, THANK YOU FOR CUTTING IT BACK TO EIGHT CONDOS VERSUS 12. AND I ALSO JUST WANT TO ADDRESS A FEW COMMENTS FROM EARLIER. I DON'T KNOW IF THOSE VACANCY RATES ARE ACCURATE. WE DON'T TEND TO HAVE A VACANCY ISSUE HERE IN CARMEL.

ALSO, THIS IS EIGHT CONDOS. IT'S NOT 200 APARTMENTS. SO IT'S IMPORTANT TO POINT THAT OUT. THAT'S NOT REALLY, DOESN'T REALLY HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS PARTICULAR DEVELOPMENT.

I DON'T THINK I HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS.

>> NO, NOBODY HAS REALLY COMMENTED ON HOW ATTRACTIVE THIS BUILDING IS, AND I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IT'S A DAN STATEMENT.

>> THANK YOU. >> I MEAN, I THINK THE BUFFER YARD QUESTIO AND YOU KNOW, IS VERY REAL, BUT IT'S A NICE BUILDING TO LOOK AT. WE APPRECIATE THE DESIGN AND THE INVESTMENT THAT GOES ALONG WITH THAT. I THINK I'M READY TO SORT OF MAKE A MOTION OF APPROVAL. I MEAN, IT WOULD BE THE DOCKET PZ2025002, 46DPADPLS IS APPROVED AS A CONDITION OF APPROVAL THOUGH THAT IT PLANNED FOR FENCING OR LANDSCAPING IS PROPOSED AND AGREED UPON WITH THE NEIGHBORS TO THE WEST AND TO THE NORTH AND THAT THE PLANNING STAFF BE KEPT IN THE LOOP AND THE FILE UPDATED WHEN THAT IS COMPLETED. AND I MEAN, SO APPROVED WITH THAT CONDITION AND THEN IF THE VARIANCES. SO, THE

BALL IS IN YOUR COURT. >> SEE WHAT I DO FIRST? OKAY. SO I'M PREPARED TO APPROVE THESE JUST WITH CONDITIONS AND FIRST OF ALL, IT SOUNDS LIKE ENGINEERING STILL NEEDS TO REVIEW WHATEVER HAS BEEN UPDATED. ADDRESSING ANY COMMENTS THAT COME BACK FROM THAT, OF COURSE. JUST COMMITTING -- IF DUKE WILL APPROVE THIS, EVEN IF IT MIGHT BE FIVE YEARS FROM NOW.

IF IT DOES GET APPROVED TO STICK WITH THAT PLAN THAT YOU HAVE, EVEN THOUGH I'M GRANTING THE VARIANTS AND THE VARIANTS STILL

[01:15:03]

LET'S SEE. I DON'T KNOW IF THERE WERE ANY OTHER CONDITIONS.

THERE WAS ONE OTHER THING. AND WE HAVE THE SECURITY OR THE SAFETY RAILING. YEAH. THAT'S THE OTHER THING. I MEAN, THAT WALL OR THAT RAILING WILL BE PART OF WHATEVER THAT BORDER IS THAT WILL LOOK CONSISTENT AND BE ACCORDING TO WHAT THE NEIGHBORS WOULD ALSO LIKE TO SEE. SO, YES, SO IN THAT CASE THEN, I AM APPROVING DOCK ITS NUMBER PZ2025. 00248 BE, AND 00250V ON THIS PROJECT. WITH ACCEPTANCE OF THE FINDINGS OF FACT AS WELL.

ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD? >> WELL, THANK YOU FOR BRINGING UP THE PROJECT DOCS COMMENTS. IT'S TYPICAL WE WOULD PLACE A CONDITION THAT ANY OUTSTANDING ISSUES BE RESOLVED PRIOR TO PERMITTING. AND I THINK ULTIMATELY, OUR GOAL WOULD BE THAT THIS PROJECT AND THE DEVELOPER GETS THE STAMP OF APPROVAL, AS FAR AS BEING A GOOD NEIGHBOR. TO HEAR CHARLIE STATE HOW BUCKINGHAM HAS BEEN A GOOD NEIGHBOR, I APPRECIATE GETTING THAT FEEDBACK. WE DON'T HEAR THAT OFTEN. AND IT WOULD BE MY GOAL THAT WE GET SIMILAR FEEDBACK FROM THE NEIGHBORS WITH THIS PROJECT AND THE CONSTRUCTION. IT WILL BE ANOTHER LENGTHY CONSTRUCTION PERIOD THAT YOU'LL HAVE TO LIVE THROUGH AND WE KNOW THAT THE BUCKINGHAM PROJECT HAS NOT BEEN EASY, BUT DAN, THANK YOU FOR THIS TODAY AND THE PROJECT IS APPROVED WITH THE CONDITIONS AND SUBJECT TO FINDINGS FACT. WITH THAT, THANK YOU, EVERYONE, FOR ATTENDING, AND THOSE OF YOU WATCHING

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.