[00:00:06] CURRAN. >> GOOD EVENING. AND WELCOME TO THE CARAMEL PLAN COMMISSION COMMITTEE OF A WHOLE [1. Docket No. PZ-2026-00049 DP Amend/ADLS: Stella House Books & Cafe Rebuild] MEETING TUESDAY, JULY 27TH. WE HAVE THREE ITEM ON OUR AGENDA AND WE WILL GO TO THE FIRST ONE, DOCKET PZ2026, 0049, AMEND A.D.L.S. PETITION. >> GOOD EVENING. OTIS AVENUE, INDIANAPOLIS. YOU MIGHT RECALL FROM PLANNING COMMISSION WE HAD A FEW ITEMS OUTSTANDING. WE HAVE MET WITH STAFF PRIOR TO THIS MEETING. IT WAS A GOOD PRODUCTIVE MEETING AND SOME DISCOVERY WAS MADE. WE HAD THE CITY ARBORIST COME OUT. DUE TO FIBRE WORKS THE ROOTS WERE CUT DRASTICALLY. WITH WITH THAT INFORMATION, THE OPENER IS CONCEDED TO SIX FOOT WALK IN FRONT OF THE SITE. WHAT THAT WILL LOOK LIKE IS REPRESENTED HERE. RED DOT IS THE PREVIOUS TREE REMOVED FROM THE SITE. WE ARE WORKING WITH STAFF ON THE SOUTH ADJOINER AND HOW THAT HAS BEEN CONSTRUCTED, HOW WILL LOOK AND TIE IN WITH US AND TWO NEW TREES. WE REQUEST YOUR APPROVAL AND HERE FOR MY QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. DEPARTMENT? >> JUST TO REITERATE. SINCE THE LAST PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING CITY ENGINEER, DIRECTOR OF D.O.C.S. AND STAFF MET WITH PETITIONER ON SITE TO DISCUSS THE RIGHT OF WAY AND WE DID REACH A CONSENSUS. IN ON-STREET PARKING WILL BE REQUIRED AND PETITIONER WILL INSTALL A SIX FOOT SIDEWALK. EXISTING TREE WILL NEED TO BE REMOVEDED FORKER THAT. BUT NEW STREET TREES CAN BE PLANTED IN THAT TREE LOT ALONG THE STREET. ALL WE NEED IS UPDATE THE PLAN AND UP LOADS TO PROJECT DOCS AND FINALIZE ANY OUTSTANDING PROJECTS IN DOC. WE HAVE NO OTHER EXCEPTS AND RECOMMEND APPROVAL THIS EVENING. >> THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. COMMITTEE? I WANT TO MAKE SURE IT IS CLEAR. THE TREE HAS BEEN COMPROMISED AND WOULD NEED TO COME DOWN ANYWAY. SO IT WILL COME DOWN, SIDEWALK WILL GO IN AND NEW PLANTING IS GOING TO GO UP IN ITS MACE. JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT IS VERY CLEAR TO PEOPLE WHO MIGHT BE LISTENING. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER COMMENTS? >> I WANTED TO ASK ONE THING. YOU REQUESTED A STREET LIGHT THEY PUT IN STREET LIGHT, TOO, IS THAT STILL -- WAS THE CHANGES MADE? >> I THINK THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT CONCEDED ON THAT AS WELL. IT IS NOT GOING TO REQUIRE THEM TO PUT IN STREET LIGHT. >> OK, THANKS. ALL RIGHT. NOW DEBBIE. >> I PROVE WE APPROVE DOCKET PZ-2026-00049 AS AMENDED. AND WITH THE CONDITION THAT ALL OF THE OUTSTANDING ISSUES IN PROJECT DOCS ARE SATISFIED. >> SECONDED. >> OK. BEEN MOTIONED AND SECONDED. ALL IN FAVOUR PLEASE SAY AYE. >> AYE. >> OPPOSED? THE PROJECT MOVES FORWARD. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. IT IS GOING TO BE VERY NICE. I LOOK FORWARD. THE SECOND ITEM ON OUR AGENDA [Items 2 & 3] THIS EVENING IS DOCKET NUMBER P.Z.-2026-00066 PRIMARY PLANT DOUBLE PLANT, 27 TOWNS SUBDIVISION. WE HAVE TWO ITEM. THAT IS ITEM TWO AND ITEM THREE IS DOCKET NUMBER PZ-2026-0046, A.D.L.S.: 27 TOWNHOMES. [00:05:01] >> GOOD EVENING. THIS WAS BEFORE YOU ALL A FEW WEEKS AGO AND WHEN WE CAME INTO THE LAST MEET, WERE THREE OPEN ITEM. THEE SUBMITTED TO STAFF BUT HAD NOT BEEN FULLY REVIEWED FOR COMPLIANCE YET. I WOULD EXPECT THAT ALEXIA WOULD CONFIRM THAT WE HAVE SATISFIED ALL THE ITEMS. ONE OF THE ITEMS WAS SUBMITTING THE BLACK AND WHITE COMMENCED ELEVATIONS AND THOSE WERE ON FILE. ALEX >> WAS ENJOYING A VACATION SO THOSE HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED AND REVIEWED. ITEM NUMBER TWO, RELATED TO THE BIKE RACKS. ALL INTERNAL TO THE SITE AND ONE COMBINED LOCATION. AND SO THERE IS CONVERSATION ABOUT TRYING TO DISBURSE THOSE THROUGH THE SITE. BASED ON CONVERSATION WITH STAFF AND DAVID LITTLEJOHN, WE WILL STILL HAVE A NUMBER OF BIKE RACKS IN THE INTERIOR AND TWO ALONG ILLINOIS STREET. WE ARE GOING TO BIN STALLING THE TRAIL SEGMENT ALONG THE EASTERN SIDE OF ILLINOIS. WE HAVE THE BUBBLE HERE THAT WAS GOING TO INCLUDE A BENCH AND MAINTENANCE STATION. AND SO THE ADDITION OF TWO U-SHAPED BIKE RACKS HERE SATISFIED STAMP'S REQUEST -- STAFF'S REQUEST FOR ALL THIS AND SECONDLY, THERE IS A CONVERSATION PREVIOUSLY ABOUT THE LOCATION OF THE SIGN COLUMN ITSELF AND IT BEING A CERTAIN DISS DANCE AWAY FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY LINE. WE TALK ABOUT THAT AT THE LAST MEET, AND WHAT SHOWED UP AND NOT BIG ENOUGH ON THE SCREEN BUT IT WAS MORE SO THE ORIENTATION OF THE BLADES. NORTH BOUND ALONG ILLINOIS, THE SIGN FACE WAS ORIENTED MORE TOWARDS THE INSIGHT OF THE DEVELOPMENT SO IF YOU WERE DRIVING UP OR GOING NORTHBOUND ON ILLINOIS YOU COULDN'T SEE THE NAME OF THE SIGN. THAT COMMENT HAD RESONATED THROUGH A FEW MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE. AND SO THAT HAS SINCE BEEN REVISED AND ALL THAT IS NOW IN COMPLIANCE AND I BELIEVE STAFF REVIEWED AND WILL CONFIRM SAME. WITH THOSE THINGS WE WOULD REQUEST YOUR APPROVAL AND THEN IT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED AND I WOULD JUST LOVE TO HAVE THIS CONFIRMED AND WRITING THAT THE LOCATION OF THE BIKE RACK, THAT BE SIGNED OFF BY LEGAL. IF WE CAN GET THAT CONFIRMATION THAT WILL BE COMMENT. THANK YOU. >> WE DON'T HAVE ANY OBJECTION TO THAT. AS FAR AS THE LEGAL REQUIREMENT GOES. JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE. >> OK. COMMI COMMITTEE? JESS. >> ALEXIA LOPEZ WITH DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY SERVICE. THE PETITIONER ADDRESSED OUR OUTSTANDING COMMENTS. AGREED TO PROVIDE FIVE BIKE RACK, TEN PARKING SPACES. AND THEN TWO BIKE RACKS AND BY THE TRAIL ALONG ILLINOIS STREET SO FOUR SPACES UP THERE AND THAT IT WAS PER OUR REQUEST TO HELP SPREAD THOSE OUT AND BE KEYSER TO MORE PEOPLE. -- CLOSER TO MORE PEOPLE. THIS WILL BE SUBSTANTIAL SIMILAR TO WHAT WILDFIRES SHOWN -- TO WHAT WAS SHOWN ON THE CONCEPT PLAN SO THEY HAVE SOMETHIG IN WRITING FOR THE FUTURE. THEY CHANGED THE ORIENTATION OF THE ENTRANCE SIGN SO IT WILL BE MORE VISIBLE FROM ILLINOIS STREET AND SO WE WOULD RECOMMEND THE COMMITTEE VOTES TO APPROVE THIS ITEM CONDITION ON FINALIZING COMMENTS AND PROJECT DOCS. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. NOW COMMITTEE. >> MY ONLY QUESTION WILL BE ON THE SIGN. HOW MUCH ING CHANGE /* -- CHANGE FROM THE LAST POSITIONING? IT IS ANGLED? >> ANGLED. NOW THE BLADE IS ANGLED NORTHWESTERLY TO ILLINOIS SO PEOPLE COMING NORTH BOUND CAN READ THE SIGN FACE. BEFORE IT WAS ANGLED AT A NORTHEAST EARLY TRAJECTORY SO DRIVING NORTH, IT WASN'T HAVE AN VISIBLE. THE SIGN FACE WASN'T VISIBLE. IT WAS MORE VISIBLE FROM SOUTHBOUND TRAFFIC WHICH DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE BECAUSE THIS IS A MEDIAN BOULEVARD ROAD. >> THANK YOU. TURNING OFF NOW. >> IT STILL RIGHT IN, RIGHT OUT, CORRECT? >> CORRECT. >> OK. I APPRECIATE ALL OF THE CHANGES AND TWEAKS YOU MADE ALONG THIS PROJECT. I WILL BE INCLINED TO MAKE A [00:10:01] MOTION TO APPROVAL. >> THE STAFF ASKED FOR PAVEMENT STRIPING, WAS THAT ADDED? >> THEY HAVEN'T RESUBMITTED FULLY IN PROJECTS DOCS BUT I BELIEVE THEY ADDED THAT WHERE THE MID BLOCK CROSSING WAS ANED. >> OK, GOOD. >> DO HAVE A MOTION? >> I MOVE WE APPROVE THE PROJECT AS AMENDED SUBJECT TO ALL THE FINAL CONDITIONS TO BE MET IN PROJECT DOCS. >> SECONDED. >> IT'S BEEN MOVED AND SECONDED WE APPROVE BOTH DOCKETS TODAY FOR THE TOWN SUBDIVISION AND TOWN A.D.L.S. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. >> AYE. THIS MOVING FORWARD 6-NOTHING. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR WORK. [4. Docket No. 2026-00112 ADLS Amend: Hunters Glen Wall Change] OUR LAST ITEM THIS EVENING IS DOCKET NUMBER 2026-000112 A.D.L.S.S. AMEND: HUNTERS GLEN WALL CHANGE. I WILL READ THIS ONE. THE APPLICANT SEEKS SITE PLAN AND DESIGN APPROVAL TO REPLACE THE NEIGHBORHOOD FRONT PERIMETER BRICK CALL WITH A FENCE. THIS SITE IS LOCATED ON INTERSECTION OF EAST CARAMEL DRIVE AND HUNTERS DRIVE AND IS ZONED H-4 RESIDENTIAL, TIMED BY LARRY SHULTZ ON BEHALF OF THE HUNTERS GLEN CONDO ASSOCIATION. GOOD EVENING. YOU ARE UP. >> WE ARE LOOKING TO REPLACE THE BRICK WALL IN FRONT OF OUR COMPLEX. THE WALL IS FALLING APART. IT IS SEPARATING. IT'S LEANING. WE HAVE LOOKED INTO PATCHING. PATCHING WOULD LOOK TERRIBLE. I WOULD LOVE TO BE ABLE TO REPLACE THE BRICK WALL WITH BRICK BUT UNFORTUNATELY IT IS OUT OF OUR BUDGET AND WE HAVE GOTTEN QUOTE AND AGAIN IT IS WAY TOO EXPENSIVE FOR US AND WE DID GET A VINYL FENCING AND WHERE THE VINYL FENCE WOULD BE IN FRONT OF THE PORCH AREAS OF THE CONDOS THAT FACE CARAMEL DRIVE. THE WROUGHT IRON WOULD STAY AND THE WROUGHT IRON IS IN FRONT OF THE SIDES OF THE BUILDING, SO IT IS NOT IMPOSING ON ANYONE'S PRIVACY. THE VINYL FENCE WOULD BE PRIVATE FOR THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE PORCHES THAT FACE CARAMEL DRIVE. ON AREAS THAT ARE EXPOSED LIKE THIS, WE COULD PUT BUSHES OR TREES. I DIDN'T THINK OF PUTTING IT ON THIS ONE. QUESTION ARE LOOKING TO REPLACE WITH A VINYL WALL BECAUSE IT IS WITHIN OUR BUDGET. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. DEPARTMENT. >> THANK YOU. AS THE PETITIONER STATED, THEY ARE SEEKING APPROVAL TO REPLACE THE VIKE BRICK WALL WITH A NEW FINAL FENCE. A TAN FINAL PRIVACY FENCE AND PROPOSED TO BE SIX FOOT TALL. THERE ARE SECTIONS OF IRON FENCE AND THOSE PORTIONSES WILL REMAIN. SO THE VINYL WILL JUST REPLACE THE BRICK PORTIONS OF THE FENCE. THE DEPARTMENT WOULD LIKE THE PE T PETICIANERS WOULD LIKE TO CONSIDER OTHER OPTIONS. WE HAVE HAD CONVERSATIONS UP TO THIS POINT AND THEY THEN PRESENTED THE PROPOSALS FOR HOW MUCH IT WOULD COST TO REPLACE THE BRICK FENCE, WHICH IS WHAT WE WERE HOPING FOR. BUT IF WE CAN'T REPLACE IT, THEN SOME OTHER OPTIONS MIGHT BE TO REPAIR THE EXISTING WALL. THINK WE CAN FIND A SIMILAR COLORED BRICK TO DO THE REPAIRS. AND POTENTIALLY EVEN APPLY FOR A GRANT TO HELP WITH THE COST. WE DID REACH OUT TO THEM AND THEY WILL FORWARD US THE APPLICATION SO THEY COULD APPLY TO HELP COVER THAT COST. ANOTHER OPTION WOULD BE TO MAYBE INSTEAD OF DOING VINYL REPLACE THE BRICK WITH ANOTHER WROUGHT IRON TYPE FENCE TO TIE IN WITH THE OTHER FENCING THAT IS THERE OR ADD BRICK COLUMNS [00:15:05] TO BREAK UP THE VINYL. THAT MIGHT HELP WITH THE TRANSITION BETTER. AND FINALLY, SUGGESTION WOULD BE TO ADD SOME ADDITIONAL SHRUBS OR TREES TO SOFTEN THE LOOK OF THE NEW FENCE. NO LANDSCAPING IS PLANNED TO BE REPROVEED. WE ARE WANTED TO CONFIRM THAT WITH THEM. THERE ARE SOME EXISTING SHRUB AND TREES THAT WOULD PROVIDE BUFFER BUT ADDING SOME MORE IN THE -- WOULD BENEFIT THE NEW FENCE. THERE WILL BE NO SIGNAGE CHANGES WITH THIS FENCE SO THE EXISTING SIGNAGE ON THE BRICK ENTRY GATE HOUSE AT HUNTER AND CARMEL DRIVE WILL REMAIN AND WILL THOSE TWO BRICK SECTIONS -- AS YOU ENTER THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THERE IS TWO BR SECTION /*S. THOSE BRICK PORTIONSES WILL REMAIN. WE RECOMMEND THE COMMITTEE DISCUSSION THE ITEM. WE HO HOPE WE CAN DISCUSSION OR OPTIONS ON THAT IMPORTANT CORRIDOR. >> IF I MIGHT, AS FAR AS REPAIRING THE WALL, IT WOULD BE INTENSIVE BECAUSE THE WALL IS SEPARATING. THE WALL IS LEANING. AND THE FACE BRICK IS CHIPPING AWAY SOMETHING TERRIBLY. AND TO TRY TO PATCH IT, I THINK IT WOULD LOOK TERRIBLE. AND COVER WITH PAINT OR WHATEVER. AS FAR AS PUTTING MORE WROUGHT IRON WHERE THE WALL IS, YOU ARE TAKING -- I FEEL YOU ARE TAKING AWAY THE PRIVACY OF THE PEOPLE AND THAT HAVE THE PATIOS THAT FACE CARMEL DRIVE. >> COMMITTEE? >> HAVE YOU MET WITH A MASONRY COMPANY TO GETTING QUOTE FOR REPLACEMENT? >> NOT TO REPAIR. TOP REPLACE THE BRICK. I GOT TWO QUOTES, $131,000 AND ONE WAS $198. THAT IS WAY BEYOND OUR BUDGET. >> DID THEY FEEL THAT REPAIR WORK WOULD BE POSSIBLE? >> THEY SAID NUMBER ONE THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO MATCH THE BRICK. AND THEY WOULD HAVE TROUBLE BUT AGAIN, THE BRICK WOULD HAVE TO COME DOWN BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE WALL IS LEANING OR SEPARATING. AND IT WOULDN'T PAY TO REPAIR IT. WE EVEN TALKED ABOUT PUTTING IN ADDI ADDITIONAL COLUMNS AND AGAIN IT WOULD LOOK TERRIBLE. THE FENCING COMPANIES HAVE ANY ALTERNATIVE MATERIALS OTHER THAN VINYL? >> WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT ANY ALTERNATIVES. I FELT THAT THE VINYL WOULD BE THE BEST LOOKING BECAUSE ON THE EAST AND WEST SIDE OF OUR COMPLEX, WE DO HAVE A WOOD LATH FENCING AND I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD LOOK AS GOOD AS THE VINYL IN FRONT OF OUR PLACE. >> LARRY, I QUESTION IS YOU SHOW AND DEPICT IN THE GRAPHICS WE GOT THE AREAS OF BRICK WALL TO BE REMOVE AND REPLACE SUBJECT TO THE FINAL FENCING, IS THERE -- NOT SAYING THIS IS A MECHANISM OR BOX YOU NEEDED TO CHECK BUT IS THERE SUPPORT FROM THE REST OF THE ASSOCIATION, RESIDENTS, FOR THIS? IF WE SAID YES TODAY, ARE THEY GOING TO BE BACK TO SAY WHY DID YOU LET LARRY COME AND MAKE THE CHANGE. IS THERE SUPPORT FOR WHAT YOU ARE SUGGESTING? >> WE HAVE BROUGHT IT TO THE BOARD. THE BOARD -- I AM ON THE BOARD. AND I AM THE VICE-PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD. AND WE HAVE BROUGHT IT TO THE COMMUNITY AND THE COMMUNITY HAS SAID WHATEVER YOU FOLKS FEEL IS THE BEST THING TO DO. THEY ARE AWARE OF THE CONDITION OF THE BRICK. PEOPLE THAT LIVE FACING CARMEL DRIVE, KNOW THE CONDITION OF THE BRICK AND THEY ARE NOT HAPPY WITH THE WAY IT LOOKS EITHER. >> GOT YOU. I GUESS WHEN I SAW THE BRICK WALL I THOUGHT, BOY, BE A SHAME TO LOSE SUCH A NICE MASONRY FEATURE. I GET IT THERE IS MAINTENANCE AND LEANING ISSUES THAT MAYBE I DIDN'T PERCEIVE. >> I AGREE WITH YOU. I WOULD LOVE TO BE ABLE TO PUT [00:20:02] A BRICK WALL BACK UP. >> I GET THAT. ONE THING I WAS WONDERING ABOUT, JUST KNOWING THERE'S PLENTY OF INFRASTRUCTURE WORK HAPPENING WITH THE CITY, THERE IS I THINK AROUND ABOUT PLANNED AT EXECUTIVE DRIVE AND OVER AT KENSER, DOES THAT AFFECT WHAT YOU ARE DOING? HAS THAT CONVERSATION BEEN HAD? >> I DON'T THINK I WOULD HAVE. >> IS THAT A QUESTION WE NEED TO ASK IS WHAT I'M WONDERING? >> I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD AFFECT US. >> >> I DON'T KNOW IF IT WOULD AFFECT THIS PROPERTY. IF THERE IS FUND TO HELP APPROVAL THAT THEY WEREN'T FOND OF APPROVING PRIVATE I AM -- >> I AM WORRIED ABOUT THEM BEING IMPACTED. >> THE EAST OF US, IS THEY ARE TAKING A SMALL SECTION, BUYING A SMALL SECTION, OF LAND, THAT IS ON THE VERY NORTHEAST CORNER OF YOU ARE PROPERTY THAT IS GOING TO BE PART OF THE ROUND ABOUT. OTHERWISE, IT WON'T AFFECT OUR WALL. >> MY NAME IS BRUCE. I'M THE REPRESENTATIVE WITH THE COUNCIL ABOUT THE PROJECT THAT IS GOING ON. I UNDERSTAND WHAT THE ROUND ROUND-ABOUT, I TALKED WITH THE ENGINEER. THE ALONG THE EASTSIDE OF THE PROPERTY, THERE IS GOING TO BE A 25 FOOT BUFFER TO WHERE THEY ARE PUTTING IN THE NEW BUILDING BECAUSE THE PLAN WAS TO PUT TWO WALK A WAYS DOWN THROUGH THERE THAT ACTS AS AN EMERGENCY TO WHERE FIRE TRUCKS CAN GO DOWN THROUGH THERE. SAME SPACING AND SERVICE THE BUILDING IN CASE OF FIRE OR WHATEVER ELSE OR UTILITIES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. BUT IT IS NOT GOING TO AFFECT THE PART WHERE WE ARE PUTTING THE FENCING IN AT ALL. THE PART HE IS TALKING ABOUT IN THE FACE, OF THE BRICK, FIRST EIGHT TO QUARTER INCH AND IT IS POPPING OFTEN THE FRONT OF THE BRICK SO YOU ARE SEEING THE INTERNAL JAGGED OF THE BRICK. YOU COULD TAKE THE PIECE AND PUT IT BACK ON THERE BUT IT WILL LOOK LIKE -- BAD. IT WILL BE PROJECTING OUT. THAT IS REASON WHY WE COULDN'T DO THE REPAIR. WE LOOKED WHERE IT WAS LEANING. COULD WE PUT COLUMNS IN BETWEEN, ANYTHING ELSE LIKE THAT. YOU WOULD BUT WITHIN TWO TO FIVE YEARSET WOULD EXIST AGAIN. >> I GUESS I APPRECIATE ALL THAT. ONE THING I SEE IN THE STAFF REPORT IS DISCUSSION ABOUT BRICK, ABOUT VINYL AND STAFF SUGGESTS CONSIDERING THE DISCUSSION OF OTHER MATERIALS. I'M JUST CURIOUS HOW REALISTIC THAT IS. AND WHERE MIGHT WE GO FROM THERE OR HOW DO WE CONTINUE TO DISCUSS IN YOUR OPINION. >> WELL, SO VINYL WAS ANOTHER -- OR NOT VINYL, THE WROTH IRON WAS ANOTHER MATERIAL THAT IT WAS SUGGESTED. STEAD AND AT PETITIONER IS CONCERNED ABOUT PRIVACY FROM THAT. I WOULD THINK WE COULD PUT LANDSCAPING THERE TO HELP WITH THE SECTIONS. IT IS GOING TO COME DOWN TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION, WHAT WE WANT TO SUPPORT FOR THIS STREETSCAPE, THE WALL HAS BEEN THERE A LONG TIME. JUST TRYING TO GET THE BEST STREETSCAPE FOR THE COMMUNITY GOING FORWARD FOR THE FUTURE. I MEAN I DON'T KNOW IF FOR THE WROUGHT IRON IF WE NEED TO GET ANOTHER QUOTE. IF THAT IS SIMILAR COST OR NOT. AND THEN OTHERWISE, THEIR CONCERN IS THE PRIVACY I GUESS WITH THAT. >> I DON'T KNOW THAT -- BRAINSTORMING ON PRECAST, OPTIONS, HAVE YOU LOOKED AT THAT AT ALL? ION IF THAT WOULD BE A SUPPORTED OPTION. A LOT ARE MORE DECORATIVE AND LESS LABOR INTENSIVE TO GO BACK WITH. >> I HAVEN'T LOOKED. I AM INNOT NOT FAMILIAR WITH A PRECAST. >> MIGHT LOOK BETTER THAN VINYL. I'M NOT AN EXPERT. JUST BRAINSTORMING. NO BAD IDEAS. >> TALKING ABOUT PRECAST WITH SIMULATED BRICK? >> YEAH. >> MORE COSTLY. >> LOOK LIKE BREAK OR MORE [00:25:02] MASONRY LOOKING IN GENERAL. >> DEFINITELY MORE COST EFFICIENT. WOULD LOOK BETTER. >> IS THERE ANY CHANCE YOU SHOULD USE -- REUSE THE FOUNDATION, THE FOOTER OF THE WALL IF WE DID A PRECAST? >> WHAT OUR ORIGINAL PLAN WAS TO TAKE THE WALL OUT, AND TAKE THE FOUNDATION OUT. AND JUST PUT NEW HOLES IN. BUT AFTER TALKING WITH THE FENCE PEOPLE, WE DECIDED LIKE, IF THIS IS THE FOUNDATION, ATTACH THE POLES TO THE FOUNDATION ON THE STREET SIDE SO WE DIDN'T HAVE TO DRILL NEW HOLES OR PAY THE COST OF TAKING THAT FOUNDATION OUT. >> WHAT IS THE SETBACK FROM THE SIDEWALK TO WHERE THE FENCE WALL WOULD BE? OR IS CURRENTLY? MY QUESTION IS THIS: I DON'T THINK ANY OF US UP HERE ARE A FAN OF A VINYL FENCE. WE CERTAINLY APPRECIATE THE FINANCIAL CONSIDERATION. BUT I THINK WE WOULD BE BIG FANS OF TRYING TO FIND A COST EFFECTIVE ALTERNATIVE TO JUST STRAIGHT VINYL. I DON'T KNOW THE NAME OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD BUT I KNOW ON CARMEL DRIVE FURTHER WEST, THERE HAD BEEN A VINYL FENCE UP AND IT WAS TAKEN DOWN AND REPLACED BECAUSE THERE WERE COMPLAINTS AND THIS HAS BEEN SOME TIME BACK OF JUST BECAUSE OF THE LOOKS. SO I DON'T WANT TO SEE YOU GO DOWN ONE PATH AND THEN GENERATE SOME NEGATIVE COMMENTS SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A SOLUTION THAT GIVES YOU WHAT YOU NEED, THAT IS AFFORDABLE, AND BETTER LOOKING THAN JUST A VINYL FENCE SO CIRCLING BACK TO MY QUESTION, IF WHAT KIND OF LANDSCAPING COULD GO IN FRONT OF A VINYL FENCE? HOW MUCH ROOM IS THERE? >> LOOKS LIKE ABOUT 20 FEET BETWEEN THEIR PROPERTY LINE AND THE EXISTING WALL. >> HOW MANY PATIOS, IF THE FENCE WAS DOWN WOULD BE VISIBLE TO THE STREET. >> I THINK THERE IS ABOUT TEN. >> SO IF YOU PUT ALL WRIGHT IRON IN AND LANDSCAPED IN FRONT OF THOSE TEN, DO YOU -- PARDON? WOULD THAT BE AN OPTION THAT YOU CAN LOOK AT? BECAUSE I MEAN, AS DEBBIE SAID, I DON'T THINK ANY OF US WANT TO SEE THE VINYL BUT WE UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU HAVE GOT GOING ON. I JUST WANT TO KNOW IF THAT IS AN OPTION AS FAR AS YOU ARE CONCERNED? >> THE ONLY OBJECTION AGAIN, TO THE WROUGHT ION WOULD BE THE PRIVACY ISSUE. WHERE THE PATIOS WOULD FACE CARMEL DRIVE. BECAUSE WHEREVER THE WROUGHT IRON IS NOW, IT IS JUST FACING -- YOU ARE NOT THERE. THE WROUGHT IRON IS ON THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING THAT IS FACING CARMEL DRIVE. BUT IT IS A SIDE OF THE BUILDING. NONE OF THE PATIOS ARE THERE. AND IF YOU GO WITH THE WROUGHT IRON ALL THE WAY ACROSS, THEN THE PATIOS ARE GOING TO BE EXPOSED. >> PERHAPS PUTTING A LANDSCAPE FEATURE TO SERVE AS A VISUAL BUFFER IS WHAT YOU ARE GOING FOR? SUE IS HAVING SOME SORT OF COMBINATION OF THE WROUGHT IRON WITH LANDSCAPING BUFFER. THAT CREATES THAT VISUAL PRIVACY THAT I THINK YOU'LL REALLY ULTIMATELY LOOKING FOR. IT WOULD BE NICE TO SEE THAT OPTION. >> WE COULD LOOK INTO THAT. AGAIN, WE DIDN'T EVEN THINK OF GOING WITH WROUGHT IRON BECAUSE OF THE PRIVACY. BUT WE COULD LOOK INTO THAT. AND I COULD ALSO CHECK INTO SOME KIND OF PRECAST LIKE YOU SUGGESTED AND SEE WHERE WE CAN COME UP OR WHAT WE CAN COME UP WITH THERE? >> HOW FAR DO THE PATIO SIT BACK FROM WHERE THE BRICK AND WROUGHT IRON ARE NOW? [00:30:01] I MEAN FIVE FEET? TEN FEET? ABOUT FIVE FEET. >> OK SO THEY ARE CLOSE. >> YES. >> OK. >> BUT SIGNIFICANTLY SET BACK FROM THE SIDEWALK. >> YEAH. THE SIDEWALK IS MUCH FURTHER AWAY. >> I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF YOU FINDING -- EXPLORING OTHER OPTIONSES AND I'M LOOKING NOW AT YOU IN TERMS OF WHAT WOULD BE THE NEXT STEP FOR DOING THAT. IS THE CITY IN A POSITION TO HELP THEM FIND ALTERNATIVES OR LEAD THEM IN A DISTRIBUTION TO FIND ALTERNATIVES. >> I WAS GOING RECOMMEND THAT MAYBE WE CAN TABLE IT TO THE NEXT COMMITTEE MEETING TO GIVE THEM SOME TIME TO LOOK INTO OTHER OPTIONS AND COST AND SEE WHAT IS OUT THERE. I HAVE AN IDEA OF ANOTHER FENCE I THINK THAT WAS APPROVED THAT IS MORE OF A SIMULATED, YOU KNOW, STONE LOOK INSTEAD OF A VINYL SO WE COULD GIVE THEM OTHER OPTIONS LIKE THAT AND THEY CAN TALK ABOUT THAT INTERNALLY TO WHAT MIGHT BE THE BEST OPTION. >> SORRY. I WANTED TO ASK A QUESTION. YOU TALK ABOUT THE PREFAB PIECE AND DOES THAT PROVIDE A NOISE BENEFIT IF THOSE WERE UP? . >> I WOULD ASSUME BOTH. IT IS ESSENTIALLY WHAT YOU WOULD FIND FROM A BRICK WALL. >> PUTTING THE PREFAB UP IS A STRUCTURE REQUIREMENT TO PUT IT ON. SO NOW WE ARE ROLLING MORE INTO THE COST FACTOR. ONLY THING ABOUT PUTTING A SHRUBBERY IN FRONT OF WROUGHT IRON DOWN IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN WITH THE SEASONAL CHANGES. WE HAVE TO FIND PLANTS THAT WOULD REMAIN BLOOMED OR FULL YEAR-ROUND. >> BLUE JUNIPER IS A BEAUTIFUL TREE, PROVIDES A BEAUTIFUL BARRIER, TOO. >> JOHNATHAN? >> YEAH. I STRUGGLE WITH THIS. BECAUSE CERTAINLY I UNDERSTAND THE FINANCIAL COMPONENT. AND THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE PROBABLY BEEN HANDED SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD NOT HAVE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN YOURSELVES. SO WE HAVE GOT A FENCE IN DISREPAIR. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THIS IS A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT CORRIDOR. EAST/WEST CORRIDOR FOR US. SO I STRUGGLE. I AGREE WITH MY COLLEAGUES THAT I DON'T REALLY CARE FOR THE VINYL. MOST OF THE VINYL FENCES YOU SEE, END UP GROWING MILDEW OR HAVE LONG-TERM NEGATIVE IMPACTS OR EFFECTS SO I'M STRUGGLING ON WHERE SHOULD BE. I DO -- YOU SHOULD HAVE A FEAR THE UNDERNEATH THAT WALL EXISTING. ION WHAT IT-- I DON'T KNOW WHA IS IT DESIGNED TO. I'M NOT AN ENGINEER. I THINK THERE IS OTHER ALTERNATIVES WE CAN BE LOOKING AT. >> SO ARE WE IN FAVOUR OF MAYBE OF TABLING THIS TO THE NEXT COMMITTEE MEETING AND GIVEN OUR PETITIONER TIME TO WORK WITH THE DEPARTMENT AND LOOK AT SOME OPTION? >> YEAH, I WOULD MOVE THAT, THAT WE TABLE ITEM, LET THE PETITIONER WORK WITH OTHER VENDORS OR STAFF, JUST TO SEE WHAT OTHER IDEAS WE CAN COME UP WITH FOR RECONSIDERATION AT OUR NEXT MEETING. >> SECONDED IT. >> DO WE HAVE TO VOTE ON THIS? >> YEAH, I GUESS DO WE HAVE TO VOTE? >> I DON'T THINK SO. >> I MEAN I MADE A MOTION. I MEAN COME ON. >> YEAH WE ARE NOT REALLY TABLING. WE ARE POSTPONING. MOVING FORWARD TO THE NEXT COMMITTEE MEETING. >> IT WAS MOVED BEFORE. SO ANY MOTION JUST WITHDRAW IT AND JUST MOVE TO TABLE TO THE NEXT COMMITTEE MEETING. . >> MOTION IS WITHDRAWN. >> I WILL WITHDRAW MY MOTION. >> WE ARE FORWARDING TO THE NEXT COMMITTEE MEETING. I'M NOT SURE OF THE DATE. >> I THINK WE ARE ALL OF LIKE-MIND. WE ARE CONSCIOUS ABOUT THE FINANCIAL CONSIDERATION. WE ALSO WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU ARE LOOKING AT THINGS THAT WOULD NOT JUST BE BENEFICIAL FROM A STREET VIEW STANDPOINT BUT I THINK IF I LIVED THERE, I WOULD LIKE TO LOOK AT SOMETHING OTHER THAN A VINYL FENCE AS WELL. SO I THINK THERE IS BENEFITS FOR BOTH SIDES OF THE FENCE. >> AUGUST 4TH I THINK IS THE NEXT COMMITTEE MEETING. . >> SWE WILL HOPE YOU SEE YOU BACK AT THE AUGUST 4TH MEETING AND HOPE TO MOVE SOMETHING FOR YOU. >> OK THANK YOU. >> GO AHEAD. >> ALEXA CAN WE GET THEM IN CONTACT WITH PREHISTORIC PREZ -- PRESERVATION. [00:35:05] HOPEFULLY A GRANT? >> YES, DEFINITELY. >> THANKS. * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.