Oct 26, 2026 Board of Zoning Appeals

[A. Call to Order]

[00:00:10]

GOOD EVENING PARADIGM CALLING TOWARD OF THE REGULAR MEETING FOR ZONING APPEALS FOR OCTOBER 263RD PLE STAND FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.

ROLL CALL PLEASE.

[D. Approval of Minutes and Findings of Facts of Previous Meetings ]

>> WE NEED TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM THE PREVIOUS MEETINGS. FIRST AND SECOND, ALL IN FAVOR.

[E. Communications, Bills, and Expenditures ]

>> AYE. >> THOSE ARE APPROVED.

ANY COMMUNICATIONS OR BILLS OR EXPENDITURES, REPORTS,

ANNOUNCEMENTS, ET CETERA. >> I HAVE ONE UPDATE THAT A PETITIONER TALKED ABOUT THE SHORT TERM RENTAL MEETING.

THEY OWN THE PROPERTY AT 96,492 ND ROAD, PETITION FOR

JUDICIAL REVIEW. >> THANK YOU.

[G.(V) Crew Carwash Rangeline Road Variances. ]

ANYTHING FROM YOU, ANGIE? >> ALL RIGHT.

SO WE WERE GOING TO THE PUBLIC HEARINGS BEGINNING WITH CREW WASH ON RANGE LINE ROAD. CAN WE TAKE THESE BOTH AT THE SAME TIME AND HE HAVE YOU PRESENT ALL OF THEM OR DO WE NEED TO DO SEPARATE PRESENTATIONS?

>> THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH DOING THEM TOGETHER.

>> THAT THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT, IS THERE ANYONE ON THE BOARD THAT IS NOT OKAY WITH THAT.

>> IT IS FINE AS LONG AS YOU HAVE DIAGRAMS IN BOTH LOCATIONS.

>> ITS FIND THAT WE DO THAT BOT AT ONCE.

WE WOULD ASK SO THERE ARE THREE SEPARATE REQUESTS, THAT WE VOTE

ON THEM SEPARATELY. >> ABSOLUTELY.

WE WILL GO FROM ONE LOCATION TO THE NEXT.

>> ONLY IF IT IS EASIER FOR YOU. >> IT IS THE SAME WITH US.

IS EVERYONE OKAY WITH THAT? >> DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU WILL NEED MORE THAN 50 MINUTES OR DO YOU WANT TO GIVE THEM MORE?

>> I CAN GIVE THEM 30 MINUTES. I DON'T THINK WE'LL NEED IT.

WE WILL WORK THROUGH EACH SEPARATELY.

I WILL HAVE THE TIME OR JUST IN CASE SUSPECT LET ME GO AHEAD AN READ THEM INTO THE RECORD. SO RANGE LINE ROAD VARIANCES, ADDITIONAL SIGNAGE AND ELECTRIC MESSAGE BOARD, PZ-2026-00133 V, PZ-2026-00134 V, AND PZ-2026-00135 V.

THE LOCATION ON MICHIGAN ROAD VARIANCES, DOCKETS NUMBER PZ-2026-00137 V, PZ-2026-00138 V , AND PZ-2026-00139 V.

GO AHEAD. >> THANK YOU.

GOOD EVENING, MEMBERS OF THE BOARD PUT MY NAME IS JOE CAULDRON AND I'M AN ATTORNEY AT 11 SOUTH MERIDIAN IN INDIANAPOLIS AND I REPRESENT CREW WASH IN THESE TWO PARTICULAR LOCATIONS. WITH ME TONIGHT ARE REPRESENTATIVES OF CREW WASH, THE SIGN MAKER AS WELL AS CATHERINE FROM CREW WASH. SO LET'S START WITH RANGE LINE ROAD, WHICH IS RIGHT DOWN THE SCREEN.

IT'S BEEN AT THAT LOCATION FOR QUITE SOME TIME.

EXCUSE ME. WHAT I HAVE ON THE SCREEN RIGHT NOW IS THE OVERALL SITE LOOKING DOWN IN VARIOUS LETTERS REQUESTING THE HOSTING SIGNS, S WHAT I REALLY WANT TO FOCUS ON ARE THE THREE LOCATIONS, WE DID A COMPLETE SURVEY OF ALL THE SIGNS AS THEY EXIST IN WHICH LOCATION.

AND WE ARE VERY GRATEFUL FOR TH OUTCOME OF THE CONVERSATIONS AN

[00:05:07]

A LOT OF SIGNS THAT ARE ON LOCATION ESTABLISHED BY VARIANCE , YOU PROBABLY SAW THAT IN THE REPORT, THE DEPARTMENT REPORT. SOME SIGNS WERE PROBABLY PUT ON AND THESE ARE DIRECTIONAL TYPE OF SIGNS WITHOUT THE APPROPRIAT PERMITS AND WILL BE REMOVED. SO YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE LOCATIONS WITH PERMITTED SIGNS AND HOPEFULLY THE VARIANCES ON EACH SIDE PERMITTED SO WHAT WE ARE REALLY TALKING ABOUT TONIGH ARE JUST THREE TYPES OF SIGNS APPEAR IN THIS WHOLE BUSINESS O THE CARWASH WORLD HAS CHANGED OVER THE LAST NUMBER OF YEARS.

WE STILL GO TO GET THE WASH BUT THERE HAVE BEEN ANIMATION ANIMATIONS AND CUSTOMER OPTIONS THAT HAVE REALLY EXPLODED OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS AND ONE OF THOSE HAS BEEN THE ADVENT OF THE ABILITY TO HAVE A MONTHLY MEMBERSHIP TO WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE TO STOP AND PAY EVERY TIME YOU MOVE THROUGH.

AS YOU KNOW, CARWASHES HAVE A LONG DRIVE THROUGH CUES, MUCH LIKE RESTAURANTS DO YOU AND PARTICULARLY FAST FOOD RESTAURANTS. SO WHAT WE ARE UP WE ARE ASKING FOR TONIGHT IS TO FOCUS IN ON SOME SIGNAGE THAT REALLY HELPS KEEP THE PUBLIC INFORMED AND MOVING THROUGH THE DRIVE-THROUG QUEUE AS AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. AND ONE THING WE ARE VERY PLEASED ABOUT BEING ABLE TELL YOU IS THAT NONE OF THE SIGNS THAT ARE PROPOSED TO REALLY INTENDED TO ATTRACT YOU OR ME O ANYBODY ELSE IN THE AUDIENCE AN A MAJORITY OF THE SITES THAT WE WILL TALK ABOUT TO COME INTO TH SITE.

THESE ARE SIGNS THAT ARE MEANT TO INFORM AND DIRECT THE PUBLIC.

IT IS OUR CHOICE TO GET INTO TH DRIVING QUEUE AND IT'S A FACT O HAVING THEM MAKE AN INFORMED CHOICE.

IT IS THEIR TURN TO ORDER THIS SERVICE THAT THEY ARE IN THE RIGHT LINE. SO THE SIGNS THAT ARE IN PLAY TONIGHT ARE IDENTIFIED AS ITEM G , WHICH IS HERE.

ITEM F, WHICH IS ON THE CANOPY TYPE STRUCTURE RIGHT NEXT G.

THOSE ARE SEPARATE AND I WILL SHOW THOSE MOMENTARILY AND ITEM H, WHICH IS SIMPLY REPLACING AN EXISTING STATIC FRAME SIGN WITH A PROPOSED DIGITAL SIDE PORTS WITH THESE RELOCATIONS, F, G, H.

AND THE PARTICULAR SIGNS THAT ARE INVOLVED, THIS SIGN, THIS I WHAT WE CALL A SNAP SIGN AND THIS IS DESIGNED TO ALLOW THE CUSTOMER TO WHEN THEY PULL UP T MAKE AN ORDER ONCE THEY GET CLOSE, THIS IS NOT A VERY BIG SIGN.

IT IS ABOUT 2 FEET BY FORMING PETE AND THIS IS A SIGN THAT IS ON THE CANOPY, WHICH WE HAVE REDUCED FROM HAVING PREVIOUS SIGNS THAT SAID CASHIER ON ONE SIDE OF ACADEMY -- CANOPY AND YOU CAN SEE WHERE WE ORIGINALLY HAD FOUR SIGNS EXISTING ON THE ACADEMY -- CANOPY.

[00:10:05]

THIS IS PZ-2026-00134 V WHICH ARE IN EXCESS OF 80% OF THE COLUMN. WE DID COMPROMISE ON THE SIZE AND WASTE THEM ON THE FRONT COLUMNS AND ACTUALLY MOVE SOME FROM YOUR COLUMNS AND WORKING WITH YOUR STAFF.

DOES ANYBODY HALF ANY QUESTIONS REGARDING THESE TWO SIGNS.

>> WE WILL WAIT FOR QUESTIONS UNTIL AFTER YOUR PRESENTATION.

AND THEN THE LAST SIGN IS THE PROPOSED DIGITAL BOARD.

THE STRUCTURE FRAME, THE BRICK FRAME STRUCTURE EXISTS AND IF YOU CAN IMAGINE THIS SIGN JUST BEING A STATIC INSERT SIGN, THA HAS ALREADY BEEN PREVIOUSLY IN THE DIFFERENCE NOW WE ARE PROPOSING TO INTRODUCE THE DIGITAL BOARD AND THIS IS TO ALLOW CUSTOMERS WHEN THEY ARE FURTHER BACK IN LINE TO BE ABLE TO SEE AVAILABLE OPTIONS THERE MIGHT BE.

AND THE UDO DOES NOT PREVENT DRIVE-THROUGH EXCEPT FOR FAST FOOD AND WOULD BE PERMITTED IF WE WERE QUICK SERVE RESTAURANT.

WHAT WE ARE PROPOSING TONIGHT, WE THINK ENDS UP BEING BASICALL A DE FACTO FAST FOOD TYPE OF OPERATION BECAUSE THIS IS OBVIOUSLY A COMPLETE DRIVE-THROUGH BUSINESS AND AS CUSTOMERS COME IN THE LINE, THE NEED TO MAKE CHOICES AND WHAT WERE TRYING TO DO WITH THIS TYP OF SIGN IS ALLOW THEM TO CLEARL MAKE A CHOICE AND HAVE THE ABILITY TO ADVERTISE, CHANGING PRICING PROMOTIONS ET CETERA AN THE IDEA BEING THAT IT WILL ALLOW PEOPLE TO MAKE MORE INFORMED DECISIONS AND REALLY CREATE LESS BACKUP IN THE CUEIN ELAINE.

IT IS NOT TO ATTRACT THE GENERA PUBLIC THAT ARE ON SURROUNDING STREETS. IT'S JUST DESIGNED FOR THOSE CUSTOMERS THAT ARE ALREADY IN THE QUEUE.

WE PRESENTED THIS TO ANOTHER HAMILTON COUNTY JURISDICTION AN IT'S KIND OF THE SAME EXACT TYP OF VARIANCE TO HAVE AND MOVE INTO WHAT WOULD OTHERWISE BE A STATIC GROUND SIGN.

SO THAT IS THE DIGITAL MENU BOARD, WHICH IS 135V.

FOR MICHIGAN ROAD, A SIMILAR SE UP BUT AGAIN TO DRAW YOUR ATTENTION VARIANCES THAT WE ARE ASKING FOR IS H, WHICH ARE THE SNAP FRAME SIZE-SIGNS. I, WHICH IS THE LAST SIGN THAT WAS SHOWN ON THE CANOPY AND THE G, WHICH IS THE EXISTING FREESTANDING GROUND SIGN THAT W ARE PROPOSING TO BE AS A DIGITA BOARD. AGAIN, ALL OF THESE SIGNS ARE DESIGNED AND LOCATED IN A POSITION FOR THE CUSTOMERS ALREADY MADE THIS DECISION IN THE Q AND THEY ARE DIRECTED

[00:15:09]

THEY ARE NOT TOWARDS THE GENERA PUBLIC SO IT WILL NOT BE DISTRACTING. AND IT WILL NOT DIVERSELY AFFEC THE HEALTH AND SAFETY AND THEN THE PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY AND THERE ARE ADJOINING PROPERTIES SO NONE OF THESE SIGNS ARE DESIGNED TO INTERFERE WITH ANY ACCESS TO VISIBILITY TO OR FROM ANY OF OUR NEIGHBORS. AND FINALLY WE BELIEVE THERE IS PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES IN THAT UDO WILL PAY OR IN THE FACT THA THERE IS JUST ONLY SO MANY SIGN THAT CAN BE REGULATED AND IN TH BUSINESS LIKE THIS IT JUST CAN' CAPTURE EVERYTHING AS THOUGH ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL AND THERE ARE CLEARLY DIRECTIONAL SAFETY AND EFFICIENCY GOALS THAT ANY TYPE OF CARWASH SHOULD HAVE GIVEN TH NATURE OF THEIR BUSINESS AND THESE PARTICULAR SIGNS WE THINK MEET ALL OF THOSE GOALS, THE BIGGEST ONE FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION IS THE UDO DRIVE' DIGITAL MENU BOARDS FOR FAST FOOD ON THE CARWASH COME ALL THAT WAS THE EXACT.

SO WE WOULD APPRECIATE YOUR CONSIDERATION AS YOU MAKE THE DIGITAL BOARD -- STAFF IS SUPPORTIVE OF THE OTHE TWO SIDES OF THE CANOPY SIGN, I YOU WILL, THAT IS ON AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. SO I THINK THE ONLY ONE THAT IS LEFT UP TO US AT THE SIDING BOD IS THAT DIGITAL BOARD SIGN.

I WILL CONCLUDE AND ALLOW THE BOARD TO ASK ME OR MY COLLEAGUE

HERE TONIGHT ANY QUESTIONS. >> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. >> IS THERE ANYONE HERE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF THESE CONDITIONS? ANYONE HERE TO SPEAK IN OPPOSITION? ALRIGHT ALL RIGHT. CAN WE HAVE THE DEPARTMENT BOAR

PLEASE. >> I WILL TRY TO SPEAK FOR BOTH SIDES BUTTE EACH OF THE SITES DOES HAVE PRIOR SIGNAGE VARIANCES THAT WERE GRADED AND AS THEY -- WE APPLIED BRINGS STAFF TO BRIN THE SITE CLOSER TO COMPLIANCE THERE WERE SEVERAL SIGNS THAT WERE ERECTED WITHOUT PERMITS OTHERS THAT A LOT OF THAT A LOT OF BACK-AND-FORTH IN THAT RESPECT AND PETITIONER IS CORRECT THAT PLANNING IS SUPPORTIVE OF THE FIRST TWO VARIANCES, THE ONE ON THE ACCESSORY STREET WITH A CANOPY AND WHAT WE HAVE HESITANCY IS WITH THE ELECTRONIC MESSAGE BOARD OR AS PETITIONER STATED, THAT IS MORE FOR THE FAST FOOD SURFACE, SO THE QUESTION BEFORE YOU THIS EVENING AS SHOULD ALSO BE EXPANDED TO CARWASH SERVICE.

SO PLANNING STAFF DOESN'T REALL HAVE A RECOMMENDATION AS FAR AS THAT GOES. WE WILL RELY ON YOU TO TALK ABOUT LINE YOUR OWN DECISION BASED ON THE PRIOR HISTORY OF THE SITE AS WELL AS WHAT THEY ARE PROPOSING REGARDING THAT WE

WILL TURN TURN IT OVER TO YOU. >> ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU.

WHO HAS QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? GO AHEAD.

>> THE PEOPLE WHO WROTE OUR SIG [INDISCERNIBLE] HE IS MY ISSUE PREACHER ASKING FOR ADDITIONS WHILE GETTING CLOSER TO COMPLIANCE. ALIKE THE WORD CLOSER.

BUT YOU ARE NOT IN COMPLIANCE. I REALLY -- I RARELY LOOK UP AT SOMETHING I SOMEBODY IS AND ALREADY IN COMPLIANCE. THAT IS AN ISSUE I TOTALLY AGRE WITH ONE OF THEM BECAUSE YOU PEOPLE WOULD BE IN THE TOTAL RU PLACE IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE THAT. THOSE DON'T BOTHER ME.

[00:20:06]

WE RESPECT THEIR KNOWLEDGE UNBELIEVABLY BUT ARE NOT GOVERNED BY WHAT THEY RECOMMEND AT ALL.

YOU ARE PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE.

I WOULD'VE GOTTEN TOTALLY IN COMPLIANCE AND THEN COME COMMEN ASK FOR MORE. THIS IS IN QUESTION TIME.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SAFET AND IF YOU WOULD LIKE A FAST FOOD, NEXT TIME I WASH MY CAR I WANT TO HELP OUT.

IT'S NOT THE SAME. YOU ARE ALREADY ASKING FOR WHAT YOU CALL THE SNAP SIGNS ON THE POST.

BY DO YOU NEED THE EXACT SAME THING BLINKING OR THE DIGITAL.

I GO THERE REGULARLY. I LIKE A CLEAN CAR.

BUT EVERYBODY KNOWS WHERE CREW WASH IS THAT WE KNOW HOW TO NAVIGATE AT. IF WE ARE NOT INTELLIGENT ENOUG TO NAVIGATE HOW TO GET THROUGH THE CREW WASH, WE PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE DRIVING. I'M NOT SURE YOU NEED THE EXTRA STUFF THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOU BUT MY BIGGEST ISSUE, EVEN THOUGH I AGREE WITH 1 AND 4A, AND I AM OKAY WITH 2 AND 5, MY ISSUE IS YOU ARE NOT IN COMPLIANCE NOW AND IT MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT FOR ME TO SUPPOR SOMETHING THAT IS ALREADY NOT I

COMPLIANCE. >> OKAY.

WHO ELSE. CRYSTAL, GO AHEAD.

>> SO CAN I JUST WALK THROUGH THE THREE SIGNS? SO LET'S START WITH THE ONE THA IS ON THE POST THAT YOU'RE GOIN

TO PUT UP. >> I WILL PUT THOSE ON THE SCREEN. SO THOSE ARE THE FOUR SIGNS THA

ARE REQUESTED. >> THIS ONE GOES ON THE COLUMN.

SO THIS IS 2 AND 5. DID YOU ALREADY TAKE DOWN THE EXTRA SIGNS AT THE CARWASH IS? YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT REMOVING THEM. TO HAVE YOU ALREADY REMOVED ALL

THE EXTRA DOUGH. >> I WILL LET THE SIGN COMPANY STEP UP OR THE CREW REPRESENTATIVE AND DISCUSS WHAT HAS BEEN REMOVED OR WHAT WILL B REMOVED.

>> ARE TODAY THERE IS THAT EXISTING DOES THAT INFORMATION IS ALREADY ON A SIGN BUT I THIN MAYBE IT IS JUST STANDING.

IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT REMOVING THE SIGNED IS CURRENTLY THERE AND REPLACING I WITH THAT ARE MAYBE YOU CAN COM UP HERE AND WALK ME THROUGH THIS .

>> I'M CHRISTINA WITH ASSIGNED CRAFT.

I GUESS I WILL START WITH THE SNAP FRAME.

THEY ARE EXISTING. WE SPOKE WITH THE CITY AND WORKED WITH THEM AND OFFERED AN ESTIMATE WOULD BE OKAY TO LEAVE THOSE UP UNTIL WE FILED FOR THE VARIANCE TO BE ABLE TO AT LEAST HAVE CUSTOMERS BE ABLE TO SEE THE NEW OPTIONS.

AND SO AS FAR AS THAT THE SNAP FRAME, THAT IS THE CASE.

>> LET ME JUST PAUSE FOR A SECOND.

SAW THE SIGN THERE TODAY THAT LOOKS LIKE THIS WILL BE REMOVED AND THIS WILL REPLACE THAT. SO WERE NOT GOING TO HAVE

DUPLICATE SIGNS. >> ARE YOU THINKING OF THE TOP

ONE? >> THE TOP ONE, YES.

>> CURRENTLY THERE ARE FOUR AT EACH LOCATION AND WE HAVE PROPOSED TO HAVE THEM AT THE FRONT AND WE CAN REMOVE THE BAC TWO AS WE WOULD PREFER TO THEM AND TO BE ON THE FRONT COLUMNS ARE CORRECT, THEY ARE ALREADY THERE.

AND WE ASKED THE CITY IF WE CAN LEAVE THEM THERE UNTIL WE GOT THROUGH THE VARIANCE TO DETERMINE WHAT WOULD COME OUT O

THAT. >> AND JUST FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT, THE OTHER ONES ARE GOING TO BE REMOVED.

WE ARE NOT ADDING MORE SIGNS. THAT IS MY QUESTION.

>> CORRECT. >> I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT . IF THIS IS APPROVED, THESE ARE

REMOVED. >> THAT PICTURE ON TOP OF THE CANOPY, I THINK IT IS THERE TODAY.

SO WHAT WOULD CHANGE NOW WITH THIS? BACK SO NOTHING WOULD BE CHANGING WITH THE.

WE WERE JUST AS TO KEEP THAT THERE AND THEN REMOVE WHERE THE CASHIER IS THERE ON THE FAR LEF LANE IS YOUR DRIVING IN THE

[00:25:01]

>> YOU'RE ONLY GOING GOING TO HAVE THE ONE SIGN AND YOU WON'T HAVE DIRECTIONAL SIGNS FOR PEOPLE?

>> YES. AND WITH THAT AS WELL, WE'VE CHANGED COMPLIANCE WITH A LOT O OTHER THINGS AND WE ARE WORKING

WITH STAFF ON THAT AS WELL. >> SO THAT THE ELECTRONIC SIGN, SO WHERE YOU ARE SHOWING WHERE IT IS LOCATED, SO I CAN LOOK AT

IT -- >> WHERE IT'S GOING TO BE LOCATED. SO IT IS G.

>> YES, RIGHT. >> SO THIS GIVES ME MORE INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR OPTIONS TO PURCHASE.

SO WHAT IS THE POINT OF HAVING SIGN THERE BECAUSE AT THAT POIN NOBODY CAN MAKE A DECISION ABOU WHAT TO PURCHASE WE'RE THEY'VE ALREADY MADE THE DECISION AND THEY ARE COMING THROUGH.

>> THERE ARE THE COLUMNS IN THE FRONT AND PEOPLE CAN SEE THAT UNTIL THEY REACH BEFORE THEY DECIDE WHICH WASH THEY'RE GOING TO GET. THAT IS WHEN THEY WILL BE ABLE TO SEE THE LITTLE SIGN. THERE ARE TWO SIGNS AT EACH LOCATION THAT ARE NOT ELIMINATE THOSE THEY ARE ELIMINATED BUT THEY ARE NOT DIGITAL. WE WOULD LIKE TO REMOVE THOSE TWO SIGNS AND ROOM REPLACE IT WITH ONE DIGITAL SIGN PIECE WER TECHNICALLY TAKING ONE FROM THE LOOP WHERE HE IS AND HAVE TWO SIGNS WITH STATIC MESSAGES AND ONE DYNAMIC ONE THAT IS DIGITAL.

SO INSTEAD OF HAVING TWO SIGNS, WE ARE ASKING FOR ONE THAT IS

DIGITAL. >> I SHARE CAPTAIN'S CONCERN WITH THE ELECTRONIC SIGN SIGNS AND NOT WANTING TO OPEN UP BEYOND WHAT IS VERY NARROW ON THE UDO SO I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHY IS THIS NEEDED. I'M NOT SEEING A REASON FOR WHY YOU PUT NEED A SIGN SETTING FORTH ALL THE PURCHASE OPTIONS AT THAT LOCATION. SO THAT WAS MY QUESTION BUT I WILL OPEN IT UP FOR OTHER PEOPL TO ASK QUESTIONS TOO.

>> I THINK MY QUESTION STARTS WITH WE TALKED ABOUT FOUR SIGNS AND YOU MENTIONED THAT THEY WER BEING DROPPED TO ONE SIGN.

US UP THE CANOPY OR IS THAT THE ONES THAT ARE ON THE DOORS.

SO THAT THIS SIGN SAYS UNLIMITE CLUB HAS TWO ARROWS.

I THINK THERE ARE FOUR CUEING LANES TO GO IN AND PREVIOUSLY THE CANOPY HAD FOR EACH LANE CASHIER, CASHIER, UNLIMITED CLUB , UNLIMITED CLUB, WORKING WITH STAFF TO REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF SIGNAGE SO THAT THEY CAN SUPPORT SOMETHING ON THE CANOPY AND THEY SUGGESTED CAN YOU JUST DO ONE UNLIMITED CLUB SCIENCE AND JUST HAVE ARROWS FOR EACH O THE TWO LANE SO THAT WAY FOLKS THAT PAY BY THE MONTH AND GO RIGHT INTO WHERE THEY NEED TO GO , IT WOULD BE ONLY FOR THEM. WE FELT LIKE THAT WOULD NOT BE TOO CONFUSING FOR CUSTOMERS SO THERE WERE FOUR LETTERED SIGNS

LIKE THIS, ONE OVER EACH AISLE. >> AND REPORT THOSE IN

COMPLIANCE. >> THOSE WERE NOT IN COMPLIANCE I DON'T BELIEVE, BECAUSE THEY ARE ON AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.

>> WITHOUT A PREVIOUS VARIANCE BUT THEY WERE NOT IN COMPLIANCE

BUT THEY WERE REMOVED. >> THEY HAD BEEN REMOVED BEFORE THE VARIANCE, CORRECT. ARE THEY BEING REMOVED? I WILL HAVE CATHERINE RAYNER ADDRESS THAT.

>> SO THE CASHIER, YES, THEY WERE REMOVED.

WHEN WE DO REMOVE YET, THEY ARE GOING TO CAUSE A LOT OF HOLES I THAT FRONT FACE RIGHT THERE SO LONG TO MAKE SURE WE NEED TO REMOVE THEM AND PUT UP WHAT IS APPROVED SO WE DON'T HAVE A BUNCH OF HOLES IN THAT MATERIAL WHICH WOULD LEAK WATER INTO THE

CANOPY AND DAMAGE THE STRUCTURE. >> SO I WASN'T CLEAR.

SEE YOU DID REMOVE THE CASHIER ONES AND YOU HAVE HOLES.

AND THEN TO THE QUESTION ABOUT THE FOUR SIGNS THAT ARE REQUESTED, THOSE ARE THE TOP ONES IN THIS PICTURE, CORRECT?

[00:30:07]

>> WE ARE ONLY REQUESTING TWO O. >> THERE ARE CURRENTLY FOUR BIT IF I COULD CLARIFY, ALL OF THE SIGNS ON THE CANOPY ARE NOT ALLOWED. IT'S PROHIBITED SIGN TYPES OR ALL OF THOSE CURRENTLY ARE NOT ALLOWED.

>> THOSE DO NOT HAVE A VARIANCE YET EXPECT AND IF IT IS HELPFUL TO DISTINGUISH THE TOP SNAP FRAME IN THIS DIFFERENCE, IT IS A BIG DIFFERENCE IN BETWEEN THESE TWO SIGNS.

YOU ARE LOOKING AT WHICH IS CALLED MY BOOTH HERE IN ONE OF THE LANES THIS TOP SNAP FRAME PITCHES CARS SO MUCH EARLIER TO HOPEFULLY MIKELL WASH SECTION I SOMETHING ABOUT HE IS FAMILIAR WITH THIS WASH AND WERE CONSTANTLY MOVING VEHICLES AND THERE ARE A LOT AND A CONSTANTL MOVING SO CUSTOMERS DON'T ALWAY NECESSARILY GET TO SEE IT, WHIC IS WHY THE SECOND ONE REALLY COMES INTO PLAY. WHEN THEY GOT TO MAKE THE WASH SELECTION COME IF THEY DIDN'T GET THE STOP AND SEE THE FIRST SELECTION, WE CATCH THEM HERE. AND THAT IS WHY THEY ARE SO IMPORTANT. BECAUSE A LOT OF TIMES THEY'RE CONSTANTLY THERE CONSTANTLY ROLLING ON SITE AND THEY MAY NO GET THE STOP BOTH OF THEM. THIS ONE, I SHOW THIS DIAGRAM, WHICH IS WHERE G IS GOING BUT EVERY SINGLE LOCATION HAS THREE OR FOUR LENGTH AND EVERY CUSTOMER HAS TO SEE THAT NO MATTER WHAT BECAUSE THEY ARE MAKING THEIR WASH SELECTION REALLY WHITE WHERE THIS IS ON THE CANOPY AND THEIR NEXT UP IN LINE AND THEY HAVE A GATE IN FRONT OF THEM AND THEY HAVE AN ATTENDANT OR THEY'RE MAKING THEIR WASH SELECTION AND ALLOWS THEM TO MAKE A WASH SELECTION A THAT DIDN'T ALREADY PREVIOUSLY MAKE ONE. ABOUT 50% OF OUR CUSTOMERS ARE UNLIMITED CUSTOMERS, SO THEY AR COMING THROUGH LANE LETTER I HEAR. WE HAVE A READER AND THEY PAY MONTHLY. THEY ARE THE REAL CUSTOMERS BUT THEY KNOW WHAT TYPE OF WASH SELECTION THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE.

THIS OTHER 50%, THEY MIGHT HAVE NO IDEA.

THEY MIGHT NEED A RECOMMENDATION , WHICH IS WHERE THE MENU BOARDS COME INTO PLAY IF THAT HELPS CLARIFY THE

DIFFERENCE. >> ON THE ELECTRONIC SIGNS, HOW ARE THOSE GOING TO OPERATE. ARE THEY GOING TO BE ROTATING COMMERCIALS. ARE THEY DYNAMIC BUT STATIC?

>> OUT THAT OUR ELECTRONIC MESSAGES AND WE CAN ROTATE MESSAGES ON THEM AND THEY ARE I THIS TYPE OF MESSAGING THAT SHOWS THE PRICING. OF TIME AND THEY MIGHT NOT IS ONE THEY ARE -- THIS IS A GOOD EXAMPLE.

DURING THAT DAY WE MIGHT DISPLA THE MESSAGING UP HERE LIKE 50% OF THE PROCEEDS HAVE BEEN DONATED TO THE BIG BROTHERS AND BIG SISTERS TODAY. LET'S SAY WE ARE RUNNING A SPECIAL PROMOTION. BY FOUR AND GET TWO FREE.

THAT MESSAGES MAY BE UP HERE BU I AM NOT MARKETING BUT I'M SAY 90% OF THE TIME IT'S GOING TO SHOW WHAT OUR WASH OPTIONS ARE AND THEN BELOW THAT NUMBER IS UNLIMITED, SO TRY TO CONVERT EVERY DAY CUSTOMERS THAT MIGHT BE -- SO IT'S GOING TO BE THIS MESSAGING RIGHT HERE.

>> I WANT TO THANK YOU BECAUSE YOU ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS I ASKED EARLIER. SO THANK YOU.

>> THAT WAS WHAT I WANTED TO VERIFY.

THE SIGN IS WAY UP AHEAD OF WHERE THEY ARE MAKING THE PURCHASE DECISION. IF YOU BEEN TO A MCDONALD MCDONALD'S OR A CHICK-FIL-A. THANK YOU.

>> YOU DON'T MAKE YOUR DECISION AT THE GATE.

BY THE TIME YOU GET THE GATE, I YOU PULL UP TO THE GATE, THE GATE IS GOING TO OPEN A ANY PARTY MADE YOUR CHOICE ONE OR TWO CAR LENGTHS BEHIND THAT. I GO UP IN THEIR HUNDREDS OF TIMES. YOU HAVE MADE YOUR CHOICE BEFOR

YOU CAN EVEN SEE THIS SIGN. >> NOT NECESSARILY.

>> IS NOT LIKE YOU HAD NOTHING TO DO.

THIS IS PAST THE GATE THAT OPENS .

YOU GUYS ARE APPROACHING THE CA WHILE BEFORE THAT.

>> IF WE HAVE STAFFING AVAILABL AND WE ARE NOT BUSY BUT THERE ARE DAYS WHEN WE HAVE ALL FOUR LANES BUILD UP AND PAY DON'T

[00:35:03]

WHERE IT'S AT, IT IS WAY PAST THE DECISION.

AND SINCE I HAVE GOT THE MICROPHONE, HOW MANY ARE STILL OUT OF COMPLIANCE, HOW MANY SIGNS OBLIGATION ARE STILL OUT

OF COMPLIANCE. >> I WOULD HAVE TO CONSULT WITH

MY COWORKER. >> ARE THOSE GOING TO -- WILL YOU COME UP, PLEASE. I'M HAVING A HARD TIME EVEN DISCUSSING APPROVING SOMETHING IF THERE ARE STILL THINGS OUT O

COMPLIANCE. >> I KNOW ALL THE SIGNS ON THE CANOPY, WHATEVER IT IS WHEN HE IS OUT OF COMPLAINANT COMPLIANCE . IT IS SIGNAGE.

THERE HAS BEEN NO PERMITS FOR THAT.

I THINK ALL THE OTHER ONES, THE SIGNS THAT ARE THERE, THE FOUR SNAP SIGNS, THEY ARE ASKING FOR TWO OF THOSE.

THEY HAD THREE OR FOUR IN EACH ONE.

AND THROUGH TALKING WITH THEM, THEY AGREE TO REMOVE ALL BUT TH FRONT ONES. AND THEN THEY HAD TWO REGULAR UNLIMITED SO THE ONE THAT IS SHOWING NOW, IT IS A SUGGESTION THAT IS MADE. TAKE THAT ONE.

ANYTHING THAT IS UP THERE RIGHT NOW IS NOT IN COMPLIANCE.

FORGIVENESS INSTEAD OF PERMISSION.

BUT WILL NOT BE COMPLIANT EVEN IF WE MAKE ALL THESE THINGS HAPPEN. PULP THIS STILL BE --

>> RIGHT NOW I THINK ANYTHING, IF WE APPROVE THESE VARIANCES AND WE ARE GIVING THEM EVERYTHING THAT IS NOT IN

COMPLIANCE RIGHT NOW. >> THEY WOULD NOT BE OUT OF COMPLIANCE-NOT FROM THE REVIEWS THAT WE MADE.

DID YOU GUYS EVER CHANGE. THEY WERE ALLOWED TO LEAVE THE INSTRUCTIONAL SIGNS. SO THOSE ARE THE RIGHT THINGS.

SO MY PROBABLE LAST COMMENT IS ALL OF THESE THINGS WERE DONE WITHOUT PERMISSION. WE GRANT ALL OR PAR OF THIS.

WHAT STOPS YOU IN THE FUTURE FO INSTALLING SOMETHING ELSE BECAUSE IT OBVIOUSLY NEVER STOPPED YOU IN THE PAST.

>> SOME OF THESE SIGNS WERE 30- 40 YEARS OLD, WELL BEFORE MY TIME. PROBABLY MOST PEOPLE IN THE ROOM . I DON'T KNOW IF THINGS HAVE CHANGED SINCE THEN BUT A LOT OF THESE WERE OLD AND WE WERE MOVING THE SIGNS COMMUTE COULD SEE IT BECAUSE WE WERE OPENING THEM UP AND THEY WERE CORRODING ON THE INSIDE.

SO THAT WAS A LOT OF THEM, ESPECIALLY THE ONE DOWN HERE

DOWN THE ROAD. >> YOU ARE NOT THE ONE MAKING ALL THE DECISIONS THERE IS CORPORATE AND CORPORATE CHOSE T DO IT WITHOUT PERMISSION BUT WILL INCORPORATE IN THE FUTURE FROM DOING IT WITHOUT PERMISSION ?

>> THIS HEARING RIGHT HERE. AT THIS HEARING RIGHT HERE.

WE ARE GOING THROUGH VARIOUS HEARING.

>> BECAUSE YOU WANT SOMETHING ELSE.

ONCE YOU GET WHAT YOU WANT, BUT STOPS THEM FROM DOING IT AGAIN THINK YOU HAVE TO TRUST THEIR WORD THAT I'VE GOT TO BE HONEST.

THAT IS JUST MY HONEST OPINION. WE DIDN'T REALIZE WE WERE OUT O COMPLIANCE A LOT OF THEM WERE 3 TO 40 YEARS OLD.

>> GO-AHEAD. WITHOUT TAKING EVERYONE DOWN FO A FIELD TRIP DOWN THE ROAD, I THINK I DO UNDERSTAND THE MOTIVATION BEHIND -- BEHIND THE SIGN THAT'S THAT STO THERE, HOWEVER, ARE YOU NOT GOING TO HAVE PEOPLE APPROACHIN THE CARS WITH THE CARS TO SELEC THAT OPTION THEY WANT ANYMORE.

SO WE ARE CURRENTLY, WE'VE BEEN TESTING KIOSKS AS WELL.

WE TESTED LOCATION AND IT DIDN' WORK OUT.

SO WE ARE STILL CONTINUING TO HAVE TEAM MEMBERS TO ASSIST US WITH CUSTOMERS AND HELPING THEM WITH WASH SELECTIONS.

>> I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT IN 2012 WENT THIS CHANGE WAS MADE

[00:40:02]

CHANGE? >> FROM WHAT I COULD FIND, SHE HAS ALL THAT INFORMATION. SHE SENT ME THE DRAFT OF THE UD AND THERE WAS A SECTION THAT WA ADDED TO THE UDO FOR THE DRIVE-THROUGH LANE, THE DRIVE-THROUGH LANE WAS ADDED TO IT I THINK HISTORICALLY, YOU'RE RIGHT.

IT HAS TO DO WITH THE NEED FOR THE MENU TO BE THERE AND AMENDE AS NEEDED FOR THE USE OF FOOD AND THINGS LIKE THAT, I'M

ASSUMING. >> JUST A CHANGING MARKET.

>> AND I THINK FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, THAT DOES NOT APPL TO THIS PARTICULAR SIGN. IT WOULDN'T BE GOOD TO APPROVE THIS FOR THE FOODSERVICE SIGN. THAT'S MY OPINION.

>> I THINK WE ARE ALL STRUGGLIN WITH THE ELECTRONIC SIGN QUESTION. I THINK WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS A LOT. DENNIS.

>> FIRST OFF I'M TRYING TO READ THROUGH THIS WAS ALL CONFUSING AND I WAS TRYING TO SORT OUT WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO APPROVE FOR A VARIANCE THAT I AM GLAD YOU CLARIFIED THAT.

BUT STILL SO THE GATE ARM SIGN BY BEING PART OF THE CANOPY IS

IN NONCOMPLIANCE. >> IT WAS AN EXTRA SIGN THAT WA LARGER AND THEY UDO WANTED ADDITIONAL SIGNAGE OR DIRECTIONAL SIGNAGE. ANYTHING OUT OF THE NECK A PERMIT. THEY WERE OUT OF STANDARD.

BACK. >> OF WHAT YOU ARE PRESENTING I THIS PACKET, 48 BY 9 IS IN COMPLIANCE.

>> THE TOP CANOPY. >> NO, IT IS THE ARM SIGN.

>> THAT IS NOT PICTURED. >> IT MIGHT BE IN THE PACKET.

>> AND THEY PUT INTO COMPLIANCE --

>> IS UNDER THREE SQUARE FEET. >> IT IS NOW, YES.

>> AS FAR AS SOME OF THESE, THE SMALLER SIGNS THAT ARE DIRECTIONAL AND INFORMATIVE, I UNDERSTAND THAT.

I'M STILL TRYING TO SORT THROUG -- AT THE RANGE LINE ROAD SIGN WIT THE CAR EXIT.

IS THAT A NEW SIGN? IS THAT A THEME REPLACING AN

XISTING SIGN? >> SO WE'VE ALWAYS HAD THAT Select to skip to this part of the video">XISTING SIGN? >> SO WE'VE ALWAYS HAD THAT CLEAN CAR ACCEPTED THAT WAS IN LARGER, OVER THE MAXIMUM SQUARE FOOTAGE. WE HAD TO GET THE SQUARE FOOTAG

DOWN TO BE IN COMPLIANCE. >> SO THIS IS IN COMPLIANCE.

>> CORRECT. THAT WAS ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE, JUST TO CLARIFY, I THINK THAT I IT IS NOT LISTED, THERE IS A LO IN THE PACKET FOR US AND THERE WERE A LOT OF SIGNS BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS THOSE HAVE ALREADY BEEN BROUGHT INTO

COMPLIANCE, RIGHT? >> CORRECT.

THAT IS WHAT HAS BEEN CONFUSING ABOUT THIS WHOLE THING.

AGAIN, LET ME COME BACK TO THE ELECTRONIC SIGN YOU ARE REQUESTING. I SEED ON THE MAP AS H, BUT I CAN'T TELL IT IS MORE DEFINITIVE .

AND IT LOOKS LIKE THERE IS A SPOT THAT IS ADJACENT TO THE

[00:45:01]

. >> WHERE IS IT RIGHT THERE.

IT IS IN THE ISLAND. SO WHEN YOU ARE FACING IT.

YOU ARE LOOKING DIRECTLY AT IT. >> AGAIN, I CAN'T TELL.

I THINK IT COMES BACK TO WHAT W WERE DISCUSSING AND IT IS PASSE WE MADE A DECISION, SO TO SPEAK AND IN THIS CASE IS AN OFF TO THE SIDE AND I FIND IT INTERESTING AND IT'S TWO LANES OF CARS THEY HAVE TO LOOK OVER TO SEE IT.

>> IT IS THERE TODAY. IT IS JUST NOT ELECTRONIC.

IT IS JUST STATIC. >> AT THE SAME TIME, YOUR SURPLUS PEOPLE, THEY'VE GOT -- WHEN THEY TALK TO A CUSTOMER, THEY HAVE GOT THE COUPONS AND ALL THE PROMOTIONAL THINGS THAT THEY GIVE TO THE CUSTOMER AS WELL, IS THAT CORRECT?

>> THEY DO HAVE A HANDOUT TYPICALLY DURING PROMOTIONAL SEASON WE HAND THOSE OUT. ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU. >> I HAVE A QUESTION FOR DEPARTMENT. YOU MIGHT KNOW.

SO IF WE DO NOT APPROVE IF THE DIGITAL SIGNS ARE NOT APPROVED, THE EXISTING SIGN IS STILL OUT OF COMPLIANCE?

>> OF THE DIGITAL SIGN, SO THE MONUMENTS THAT WERE THERE WERE APPROVED PREVIOUSLY. THEY CAN STAY.

THE STATIC SIGNS THAT THEY ALWAYS HAVE.

THEY'RE ASKING TO REPLACE THAT. >> OKAY.

>> ALL THOSE WILL BE IN COMPLIANCE.

>> THANK YOU. >> THEY WILL BE ABLE TO KEEP

THOSE. >> I WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION I ANYBODY IS READY BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE DO THIS BY LOCATION . IF YOU GROUP ANY OF THESE --

>> MAY WE OFFER SOMETHING TO TH BOARD BECAUSE THERE WAS A QUESTION ABOUT WHAT IS THE FUNCTION OF THE DIGITAL SIGN AN

IF IT IS JUST PRICING -- >> BOARD MEMBERS, DOES ANYBODY HALF ANY MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT?

>> NO. LET ME HEAR YOU HAVE TO SAY.

>> THE IDEA WOULD BE BECAUSE TH DIGITAL SIGN IS MORE THAN JUST THE SAME MENU PRICING. AS MENTIONED, IT CAN'T BE PROMOTIONAL OR CHARITABLE OPPORTUNITY.

IF WE HAD A STATIC MESSAGE THAT IS NOT TURNING CONSTANTLY, BUT THAT BE HELPFUL TO THE BOARD. MAYBE WE CHANGE IT ONCE A DAY, TWICE TODAY AT THE MOST BID BUT THAT BE HELPFUL AS YOU DEBATE?

>> IT WOULD BE AN UNCONTROLLED MESSAGE SO THAT WOULDN'T HELP I IF YOU ARE DOING THE CHARITY, YOU ADVERTISE THAT TO THE CHARITY AND PEOPLE COMING COME IF I'M GIVING 10% OF THE FOOD TONIGHT TO SUCH AND SUCH CHARITY , THEY DON'T SHOW UP, THEY ARE COMING BECAUSE I ADVERTISE THIS AHEAD OF TIME.

SO I WOULDN'T COME UP WE WOULD HAVE ZERO CONTROL OVER WHAT WEN IN THAT MESSAGING PAID SO THAT WE DO.

>> I WILL ENTERTAIN A MOTION IF ANYONE HAS ONE.

>> ONE LOCATION AND THEN THE OTHER.

>> CAN YOU PLEASE DO THREE MOTIONS?

>> YES, I WAS JUST GOING TO DO THAT.

ON DOCKET NUMBER PZ-2026-00133 V , MOTION TO APPROVE.

>> CAN WE JUST RECAP WHICH SIGN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

>> FROM TWO UNLIMITED DOWN TO ONE.

>> WE HAVE A FIRST AND SECOND. ANY FIRST -- ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? HEARING NINE, ALL IN FAVOR AYES.

THAT ONE IS APPROVED. DOCKET NUMBER PZ-2026-00134 V, THE FOUR SIGNS THAT ARE ALREADY THERE TO GO DOWN TO 2 CENTS ON THE POST AND THEY FOUGHT 100% O THE WHIP AND INSTEAD OF -- FIRST AND SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THOSE? ALL IN FAVOR, AYE. ANY OPPOSED.

NAY EXPECTS DOCKET NUMBER 1017. THIS WOULD BE THE ELECTRONIC

[00:50:07]

>> SECOND. >> ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION.

ALL IN FAVOR. >> ALL OPPOSED NAY.

[G.(V) Crew Car Wash Michigan Rd Variances. ]

>> THAT ONE IS NOT APPROVED. DOCKET NUMBER PZ-2026-00137 V,

>> MOTION TO APPROVE. >> SECOND.

>> ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ALL THOSE IN FAVOR AYE.

>> OPPOSED. >> I'M GETTING CONFUSED.

>> DOCKET NUMBER PZ-2026-00138 V .

THIS WOULD BE THE NUMBER OF SIGNS GOING DOWN TO 2100% INSTEAD OF 85%. MOTION TO APPROVE.

>> SECOND. >> FIRST AND SECOND.

ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR.

AYE. >> ANY OPPOSED NAY.

>> THERE IS A PROPOSAL FOR THIS NEXT ONE AND IN FACT WE MIGHT NEED TO GO BACK AND SEE THE ONE THAT WAS DENIED.

WE NEED TO REQUEST A PREPARATIO OF FINDINGS OF FACT FROM THE ATTORNEY. DO WE NEED TO REVISIT NUMBER 3?

>> WE DIDN'T ASK YOU TO DO THAT. WHEN WE DENIED IT.

>> YES. >> LET'S JUST MAKE IT EASY AND REDO IT. CAN WE WITHDRAW NUMBER 3?

>> DOCKET NUMBER PZ-2026-00135 V , THE DIGITAL SIGN.

IN CASE WE PUT DENY THIS, I WOULD ASK THAT OUR LEGAL TEAM ADOPT A FINDING OF FACT. MOTION TO APPROVE.

>> SECOND. >> AND TO CLARIFY, I WOULD BE

DRAFTING. >> DRAFTING.

>> ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR.

ALL OPPOSED NAY. >> DOCKET NUMBER 22 -- PZ-2026-00139 V. IF WE WERE TO DECLINE THIS, I WOULD ASK THAT THE ATTORNEY DRAFT A FINDING OF FACT.

>> MOVE TO APPROVE. >> SECOND.

>> ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR?

ALL THOSE OPPOSED NAY. >> THAT ONE IS DENIED AS WELL.

>> ALL RIGHT, SO YOU ARE APPROVED FOR FOUR OF THE SIX.

[G.(SE) Gorden Short Term Residential Rental. ]

>> THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME THIS EVENING.

>> WE ARE MOVING ON TO OUR NEXT AND FINAL ITEM FOR PUBLIC HEARING, DOCKET NUMBER PZ-2026-00205 SE.

THIS IS THE GORDON SHORT-TERM RESIDENTIAL SEEKING SPECIAL EXCEPTION FOR NON-OWNER OCCUPIE SHORT-TERM RESIDENTIAL RENTAL.

OF THE PETITIONER COME FORWARD TO PRESENT.

YOU ARE SET. >> I WAS HERE ABOUT A MONTH AGO ON THE SAME TOPIC WITH A DIFFERENT PROPERTY.

>> BUT YOU STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD AS WELL APPEAR THINK

YOU. >> JACOB GORDEN.

I WILL JUST READ SOME NOTES HERE .

I'M RESPECTFULLY REQUESTING THI SPECIAL EXCEPTION PERMIT SO THA I CAN RENT OUT THIS HOME ON A SHORT-TERM BASIS BID THE ADDRES IS 1225 EAST 105TH STREET CARMEL.

MY WIFE AND I OPERATE A VERY SUCCESSFUL SHORT-TERM RENTAL FROM OUR HOME AS WELL AS THE ON THAT YOU GUYS RECENTLY APPROVED AT 10558 CIRCLE PARKWAY. THAT WAS ABOUT A MONTH AGO.

SINCE WE WERE APPROVED FOR THE PERMIT AT OUR PERSONAL HOME, WE HAVE MADE OVER 65 STAR REVIEWS, 80 NEIGHBORHOOD COMPLAINTS AND ZERO CITY COMPLAINTS I WAS HERE A WEEK AGO WHEN THERE WERE ABOU 55 STAR REVIEWS THAT WE ARE NOW 60 OR ABOVE.

IN ADDITION TO OPERATING A SUCCESSFUL PROPERTY RENTAL WITHOUT ANY PROPERTY MANAGER, YOU KNOW THERE ARE A MISS OF PROPERTIES IN CARMEL, TWO OF THEM HAVE BEEN ACROSS THE TRAIL

[00:55:02]

THESE ARE JUST SOME OF THE THINGS THAT I DO WHAT I TAKE ON A NEW INVESTMENT. I WOULD TREAT THIS RENTAL KNOW DIFFERENTLY AND HAVE THE SAME LEVEL OF STANDARDS THAT I STRIV FOR IN AN ON MY PROPERTY SETTLEMENT BUSINESSES IN GENERAL . MY GOAL WOULD BE TO FORK US MOR ON CORPORATE HOUSING NEEDS, PROFESSIONALS DELETE TEMPORARY HOUSING AND LONGER-TERM SHORT-TERM STAPLE SO INSTEAD OF A FEW NIGHTS HERE AND THERE, LIKE THE SHORT TERM RENTAL, WE OPERATE FROM HOME, I STRIVE FOR SEVERAL WEEKS TERMS INSTEAD AND THIS WILL LIMIT TURNOVER, MAINTENANCE, AND KEEP PEOPLE HAPPIER SO THERE'S LESS TRANSIENT ACTIVITY.

>> THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY IS CURRENTLY UNDER REVIEW FOR SUBDIVIDING, SELLING THE VACANT MOST LIKELY DUPLEXES, WHICH HAV BEEN ACTIVELY BEEN WORKING ON WITH ENGINEERS IN THE CITY.

ONCE THAT PROCESS IS COMPLETE, THERE IS A HIGH PROBABILITY THA IPO SELF THE EXISTING SINGLE-FAMILY HOME THAT I WOULD BE DOING THE SHORT-TERM RENTALS CONSULT THE GOAL WOULD BE TO WAIT FOR THE SUB DEVISE -- SUBDIVIDE PROCESS TO TAKE A LONGER. AND WERE HOPING TO BRING IN SOM RENTAL INCOME WHILE I CONTINUE THE SUBDIVIDE PROCESS.

SO SHORT-TERM RENTAL ACTIVITY, WOULD EXPECT THAT IT SHOULD BE SHORT-LIVED AND I DON'T FORESEE BEING A LONG-TERM THING.

IT IS A LOT OF WORK. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU. IS THERE ANYONE HERE TO SPEAK I FAVOR OF THIS PETITION. IS ANYONE HERE TO SPEAK IN OPPOSITION. WE HAVE GOT TWO BIG YOU CAN HAV A SEED PLEASE COME UP. YOU WILL HAVE FIVE MINUTES TO SHARE IN YOUR REMARKS WHEN YOU ARE GETTING CLOSE TO THE FIVE LIGHT AND THEN WHEN YOU SEE A STATEMENT THAT YOU ARE ON.

PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE.

>> I LIVE DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET ON THE CORNER FROM THIS PROPERTY THAT HE IS DISCUSSING. MY LARGER CONCERN IS SUBDIVIDIN THE PROPERTY AND TURNING IT INT SHORT-TERM RENTALS.

ANOTHER THESE LOOKING FOR PEOPL THAT ARE THERE LONGER THAN A FE DAYS BUT ULTIMATELY THAT WILL PROBABLY NOT BE THE CASE.

WE DON'T REALLY WANT THAT IN OU COMMUNITY, FIRST OFF.

BUILDING ON THAT CORNER, I HAV A LOT OF CONCERNS ABOUT CONSTRUCTION. I AM CONCERNED ABOUT DRAINAGE I THAT AREA EVERYTHING DRAINS INT OUR PROPERTY THE WAY THAT IT IS ORIGINALLY DESIGNED, THERE IS A COUPLE OF DRAINS THAT RENT UNDE THE RAILROAD. EVERYTHING ON OUR BLOCK DRAINS DOWN INTO OUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND PUTTING MORE HOUSING ACROSS THE STREET IS GOING TO TAKE UP LAND I HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THE ROADS

[01:00:01]

IT'S NOT A REAL SAFE CORNER TO BEGIN WITH AND IF YOU'RE TALKIN ABOUT DIVIDING UP THIS PROPERTY AND PUTTING IN SHORT-TERM RENTA HOUSING, THERE IS A LINE OF SIGHT ISSUE AND PEOPLE ALREADY SPEED AROUND THE CORNER. THE DRAINAGE IS ONE OF MY BIGGEST CONCERNS FOR ME. I'M CONCERNED ABOUT HOW IT'S GOING TO AFFECT THE PROPERTY VALUE.

WE ARE NOT, I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH ANYBODY KNOWS ABOUT THIS NEIGHBORHOOD. THIS IS NOT YOUR TYPICAL CARMEL NEIGHBORHOOD. THIS IS A MUCH OLDER NEIGHBORHOOD. IT IS A VERY WORKING-CLASS NEIGHBORHOOD. PEOPLE ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE VALUE OF THEIR PROPERTY. THERE ARE ENOUGH RENTALS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, MORE THAN ENOUGH RENTALS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD ALREADY. WE DO NOT NEED MORE, ESPECIALLY SHORT-TERM AIR B&B STYLE RENTALS .

IT IS JUST NOT WHAT WE NEED IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.

THE LIGHTING IN THE AREA WOULD BE A CONCERN.

I DON'T KNOW. THESE ARE MY CONCERNS FOR ANY KIND OF EXISTING PROPERTY BEING BUILT GOING FORWARD.

WHAT HE WANTS TO DO WITH THE HOUSE THAT IS ALREADY THERE, SO BE IT. IT ALREADY EXISTS.

MY CONCERN MORE IS FOR THIS IDE OF BUILDING NEW HOUSING AND HOW IT IS GOING TO AFFECT THAT CORNER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT I AM REFERRING TO, THAT I ENCOURAGE YOU TO DRIVE THROUGH THERE AND GET A FEEL FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE CONCERNS ON THAT BECAUS THEY ARE REAL.

I HAVE A CHILD THAT BIKES AND SKATES AND THERE'S PLENTY OF OTHER PEOPLE THAT ARE WALKING AROUND THEY'RE CONSTANTLY THERE CONSTANTLY IN NEIGHBORHOOD, BIKING, SCOOTER RING, WALKING THEIR DOGS. LESS SAFE THAN IT ALREADY IS.

THAT'S IT. THAT'S ALL I GOT.

>> THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT, WOULD YOU LIKE TO COME UP AND WE DO NOT WANT TO DISSUADE YOU FROM SHARING, WE ARE ONLY CONSIDERING THE PROPERTY THAT COVER THE HOUSE THAT ALREADY EXISTS FOR SHORT-TERM RENTAL.

THANK YOU. >> MY NAME IS GREG URBACH AND I LIVE ACROSS THE STREET BUT I ALSO LIVE ACROSS THE STREET, IF YOU KNOW WHERE 105TH STREET IS AND THEN WERE ETHEL TURNS THE CORNER, I LIVE ON 105TH STREET.

I WILL KEEP MY COMMENTS DIRECTL RELATED TO THE PROPERTY ACROSS THE STREET BUT I SHARE MANY OF HIS CONCERNS HE RAISED ABOUT THAT CORNER. I WILL ADD THERE ARE NO SIDEWALKS IN THAT AREA AS TO WHAT HE MENTIONS THAT PEOPLE AR RIDING BIKES AND WALKING IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, IT IS ALL ALONG THE STREET. BUT I WILL TO THE OTHER.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR ALLOWIN ME TO SPEAK.

I HAVE RESPECTABLY RESPECTFULLY OPPOSE GRANTING THIS RENTAL EXCEPTION FOR THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL.

PAPERS CONCERN IS THE METHOD AN SHALL CHARACTER OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. WE LEFT IT RESPECTING-THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN THE COMMUNITY AND I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE POTENTIAL FOR INCREAS TRAFFIC AND NOISE AND DISRUPTIO

[01:05:01]

ON THE PROPERTY IS FOR THEM ON SITE.

OUT SAM THAT CONCERNED ABOUT TH IMPACT THAT THEY'RE USING TRANSIT RENTAL PROPERTIES AND VALUES IN HOMES AND I RECOGNIZE THAT I CANNOT PREDICT A SPECIFI EFFECT OF THE PROPERTY VALUES BUT I BELIEVE THERE IS POTENTIA IMPACT THERE.

I ASKED THE BOARD TO CONSIDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING THIS APPLICATION ON THE PROPERT PRESS RECENTLY PURCHASED AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IS CLEAR. I'VE LIVED THERE FOR 30 YEARS AND AS YOU REFERENCE, MANY OF THE PEOPLE OF THE HOUSES THAT ARE THERE WERE BUILD WAY BEFORE I.

THE PROPERTY WAS RECENTLY PURCHASED WITH A SHORT-TERM RENTAL. I WOULD LIKE THE BOARD TO CAREFULLY EXAMINE WHETHER OR NO THE PROPOSED USE WOULD MEET CARMEL REQUIREMENTS INCLUDING PARKING, AND COMPATIBILITY WITH THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD. I UNDERSTAND THE BOARD MUST APPLY SETTING STANDARDS THAT I ASKED THAT THE DECISION BE BASE ON THE STANDARDS AND THE EVIDENCE PRESENTED AND THE APPLICANT HAS DEMONSTRATED THAT THE REQUIREMENTS HALF BEEN SATISFIED AND WE ASKED THE BOAR TO PROVIDE FOR SPECIAL EXCEPTION . I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME TODAY.

>> THANK YOU. MR. GORDON, DO YOU WANT TO

RESPOND? >> YOU HAVE FIVE MINUTES FOR A RESPONSE. I'M MOSTLY GOING TO DOES.

>> MAKE SURE YOU ADDRESS THE BOARD, PLEASE.

>> THE SECOND GENTLEMAN IS CONCERNED AND I THINK ALL THE REQUIREMENTS HALF BEEN SUBMITTE PROPERLY TO THE CITY.

AS HE MENTIONED, THE ONE CONCER WAS PROPERTY VALUE.

WHEN I BUY PROPERTY, I INVEST MONEY IN THEM AND A PLAN FOR THEIR VALUES TO INCREASE THE NE DECREASE.

THAT IS THE GOAL THAT I'VE BEEN FAIRLY SUCCESSFUL SO FAR.

AND AS I MENTIONED IN MY LAST HEARING IN THE PREVIOUS PROPERTY , I DO LIVE LESS THAN TEN MINUTES FROM THIS PROPERTY SO I CAN BE ON SITE VERY QUICKLY .

JUST TODAY I HAD TO GO OVER THERE TO ADDRESS THE ELECTRICAL ISSUE. I WAS JUST CURIOUS HOW LONG IT TAKES. SO I DON'T THINK THERE IS GOING TO BE ANY CONCERN GIVEN MY TRAC RECORD, I LIKE TO ANIMATE OTHER RENTALS, THE ONE THAT WAS APPROVED LAST MONTH IT WAS NEW PROPERTY FOR ME SO THERE'S NOT LOT TO GO OFF OF THAT.

BUT MY PERSONAL HOME, I OPERATE A SHORT-TERM RENTAL AND I HAVE VERY PARTICULAR NEIGHBORS THAT CATCH EVERYTHING AND NOTHING GETS BY THEM, I DON'T MISS THINGS.

AND THERE HAS BEEN NO ISSUES SO FAR.

NOT ONE PERSON HAS REACHED OUT TO ME DIRECTLY.

SO I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANY CONCERN.

I WANT TO KEEP THE NEIGHBORS OF LITTLE FARMS HAPPY BECAUSE THER IS POTENTIAL FOR NEW PROJECTS COMING AND I THINK IT IS GOOD FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND I DO THINK TO THE GENTLEMAN'S POINT, THERE SHOULD BE PROPER PROPER SIGNAGE IN PLACE TO LIMIT SPEEDING BUT I'M ALL FOR SPEED BUMPS.

I WOULD PUT 100% SUPPORT THAT, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE THE DUPLEXES I PLAN TO BUILD HAVE FAMILIES. THIS IS SOMEWHAT OF OFF-TOPIC BUT I WILL TOUCH BRIEFLY. THIS MENTION OF DRAINAGE ISSUES AND MY ENGINEERS THAT I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH ON THE DRAINAGE PLAN TO ADD ROUGHLY A THIRD OF AN ACRE TREE PRESERVATION AIR THAT WILL REALLY HELP WITH THE DRAINAGE.

THERE ARE MEASURES BEING PUT IN PLACE TO ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS AND THE CITY OF CARMEL DOESN'T AMAZING JOB EVERYWHERE SO I'M FAIRLY CERTAIN THEY WILL NOT LE ME DO ANYTHING UNLESS IT IS JUS RIGHT AND I AM COOL WITH THAT. SO I HAVE NO PROBLEM AND GOING THROUGH THOSE MEASURES ARE THE STEPS AND TAKE WHATEVER MEASURE

[01:10:01]

>> THANK YOU. >> SAW THE REQUEST BEFORE YOU THIS EVENING IS FOR AN EXISTING THREE-BEDROOM THREE BEDROOM, TW BATHROOM HOUSE, FOR THE OWNER T OPERATE IT AS A NON- OWNER-OCCUPIED PROPERTY AND WE DID CHECK WITH THE CARMEL CODE ENFORCEMENT DEPARTMENT AS WELL AS THE POLICE DEPARTMENT BECAUSE THERE HAD BEEN NO REPORTS OR INCIDENTS IN THE PAS YEAR FOR THIS PROPERTY. UP WE ALSO THE PETITION AGAINST THE BASIS FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL AND PLANNING STAFF THINKS THEY MEET THAT AND SO WE DO RECOMMEND A FAVORABLE RECOMMENDATION AS WELL AS THE ADOPTION OF FINDINGS OF FACT AN ALSO TO POINT OUT IF THIS PETITION IS APPROVED, IT IS VALID FOR ONE YEAR AND THEY WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK BEFORE YOU AFTER THAT. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. BOARD, COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS.

GO AHEAD. >> EVEN THOUGH IT IS ONLY VALID FOR ONE YEAR, THEY HAVE TO COME BACK TO IT IS THAT ALL MODE DOE IT TRANSFERRED OR IS IT ISOLATE TO ONE STRUCTURE.

>> IT WOULD BE PUT FOR THIS ONE PARTICULAR STRUCTURE.

>> SO FIRST, YOUR QUESTION ABOU FUTURE DUPLEXES.

>> BUT THAT HAVE TO GO TO THE PLAN COMMISSION? THERE WOULD BE A PUBLIC HEARING FOR THAT AND GRANTED BY THE CIT SO JUST KNOW THAT PANETTA FOUL, I SIT ON THE PLANNING COMMISSIO AND AS FAR AS DUPLEXES, ALSO, I YOU PLAN TO BUILD DUPLEXES ON THAT, I THINK THAT WOULD ALSO REQUIRE A VARIANCE COMES HE WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK TO DCA? NO.

DUPLEXES ARE ALLOWED IN THE ZONING DISTRICT.

>> FOR THE LOTS, THERE WOULD BE A PUBLIC HEARING ON THAT AND THAT WOULD GO THROUGH THE PLANNING COMMISSION.

THERE WOULD BE A PUBLIC HEARING FOR THAT.

JUST SO YOU KNOW, THAT DECISION WILL NOT BE MADE BEHIND CLOSED DOORS WITH LB A PUBLIC HEARING AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION SEE OF AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK THER ON THAT ISSUE.

SO WITH REGARD TO SHORT-TERM RENTAL, I UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERNS AND JUST SO YOU KNOW I SAY THIS EVERY TIME WE HAD SHORT-TERM RENTALS OUT HERE, OU STATE LEGISLATURE, THEY HAVE RESTRICTED MUNICIPALITIES ABILITY TO REGULATE AND RESTRIC THESE THINGS THAT THEY PASSED I THEIR MOST RECENT LEGISLATIVE SESSION SO I SHARE YOUR CONCERN AND I DO THINK IF NOT DONE WELL THEY CAN BE DISRUPTIVE TO A NEIGHBORHOOD.

I COMPLETELY RECOGNIZE YOUR CONCERNS BUT WITH ALL THAT SAID IF PETITIONER WOULD COME UP HERE , I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS FOR YOU. HOW MANY GUEST DO YOU THINK YOU WILL HAVE IN THIS HOUSE? I'M GOING TO HISTORY RENTING TO A MAXIMUM OF FOUR OCCUPANTS. SO THREE BEDROOMS, FOUR OCCUPANTS. AND FOR PARKING, WHEREWITH THEY PARK QUITE EXPECT THERE IS A TW CAR GARAGE, OVERSIZED TWO-CAR GARAGE THAT I INCLUDE AT THE EN AND I HAVE DETAILS IN THE PAPERWORK. AND THERE IS ALSO A LARGE DRIVEWAY. SO THERE SHOULD BE ADEQUATE

PARKING FOR UP TO FOUR GUESTS. >> I DO KNOW THAT YOU'VE MENTIONED SOME OF THE IMPROVEMENTS THAT YOU'VE DONE SOME OF YOUR OTHER AIR B&BS. BUT YET PLAN FOR THIS ONE OR IS

THAT STILL WORK IN PROGRESS. >> A LITTLE BIT OF A WORK IN PROGRESS. THE BUDGET IS TIED UP IN SOME THINGS. BUT MOSTLY COSMETIC THINGS, PAINT, FLOORING. USUALLY FIRST FOCUS ON THE UTILITIES AND THE SAFETY ASPECT. AND MAKE SURE ALL THE SMOKE DETECTORS AND CO2 DETECTORS ARE WORKING, CHECK THE PLUMBING.

BEFORE I GET TO THE COSMETIC AN THE FUN STUFF, I JUST GO THROUG

THE BASICS. >> SO IT SOUNDS LIKE IT WILL BE A WHILE BEFORE THIS GOES LIVE, SO TO SPEAK.

>> MOST LIKELY. I HAVE WORKERS THAT WORK RATHER QUICKLY BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE REASONABLE FOR THEM THE NEXT 60 DAYS OR LESS. THAT IS PROBABLY AN APPROXIMATE BUT AT SAME TIME, IT DEPENDS ON HOW THE TIMELINE GOES AND IF THAT HAPPENS QUICKER THAN EXPECTED, THERE'S ALWAYS AN OUTSIDE CHANCE THAT WE WOULD NEVER RENT AGAIN.

[01:15:02]

SO IT IS HARD TO SAY WHAT I WIL DO TO IT PHYSICALLY AND STRUCTURALLY. BUT HAS A LOT OF POTENTIAL AND ITS NICE-LOOKING END TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO KEEP THE HOME AND BEYOND THE LOT SPLIT AND CONTRO IT AND THAT WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD IS PROTECTED IN THE RIGHT PEOPL ARE IN THERE.

I WOULD LIKE TO DO SO. >> IT IS A BEAUTIFUL LOT AND IT'S A NICE NEIGHBORHOOD AND I DID DRIVE THROUGH IT, SO IT IS REALLY CHARMING NEIGHBORHOOD. THOSE ARE MY QUESTIONS I'M SURE

EVERY ELSE HAS QUESTIONS TOO. >> AND I HAVE LOTS OF QUESTIONS.

>> MR. GORDON, THIS NEXT STATEMENT OF GOING TO MAKE TO THEM HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU. I DO NOT SUPPORT SHORT-TERM RENTALS. THE STATE DECIDED TO BUT INTO HER BUSINESS AND I THINK -- IS OPERATING A BUSINESS IN A NEIGHBORHOOD, WHICH WE DON'T ALLOW HIM ESPECIALLY IF YOU DO NOT LIVE IN THE HOUSE, WHICH IS ONE THING THAT WAS IN THE BEGINNING AND THE STATE DECIDED TO BUT INTO OUR BUSINESS AND TAKE ALL OF OUR ABILITY TO STOP THAT FROM HAPPENING UNLESS CERTAIN THINGS HAPPEN HAPPENED, WHICH RECENTLY DID.

AND IT WAS SORT OF FUN. AS FAR AS THIS, WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH US, ENGINEERING WILL DETERMINE IF THE DRAINAGE WILL BE RIGHT OR NOT.

IF THE DRAINAGE CANNOT BE RIGHT IT WILL NOT BE BUILT.

THAT IS SIMPLE. >> ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD MEMBERS ?

I ENTERTAIN A MOTION. >> ABLE TO APPROVE.

>> SECOND. >> WE HAVE A FIRST AND SECOND.

ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION. SEEING NONE, ALL IN FAVOR.

>> AYE. >> ANY OPPOSED.

>> YOU ARE APPROVED. SEEING NO MORE BUSINESS ON

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.