[a. Ordinance Z-673-22; GOAT Rezone]
[00:00:11]
>> I'M CALLING TO ORDER THE MARCH 2 MEETING OF THE LAND USE AND SPECIAL STUDIES COMMITTEE. WE ARE CONTINUING TO DISCUSS ORDINANCE Z673-22, ALSO KNOWN AS THE GOAT RESULT.
I WOULD LIKE TO REMIND PEOPLE THAT THIS IS A BUSINESS MEETING, SO NO COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE, OR CLAPPING, SHOUTING, ETC. FIRST UP, I WOULD LIKE TO ASK FOR DAN MORIARTY TO GIVE HIS PRESENTATION AND REMARKS.
>> HI, I'M DAN MORIARTY ARCHITECTURE 36288 IN PLACE IN CARMEL. THANKS FOR ALLOWING US TO PRESENT TONIGHT. AS YOU WELL KNOW, WE'RE HERE TO TALK ABOUT ALL TEST OF ALL TAVERNS HERE ON THE CORNER (NAME). WHAT I'VE GOT TO SHOW YOU TONIGHT IS -- THIS IS THE PLAN AS PRESENTED, AT THE LAST MEETING, I BELIEVE. I BELIEVE RACHEL HAS SEEN THIS ONE. LET'S SEE IF I CAN POINT WITH THIS. SO JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF SCOPE, HERE IS THE EXISTING BUILDING.
IT KIND OF FOLLOWS THAT LINE RIGHT THERE.
THE SCOPE OF THIS PROGRAM WAS TO ADD THIS NEW VESTIBULE HERE.
AND THEN, THIS NEW PIECE OUT HERE TO THE EAST.
SO THE GENERAL LAYOUT HERE IS NOW, IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT THE PRIMARY ENTRY WILL BE FROM THE (NAME) HERE.
YOU EITHER TURN LEFT TO GO INTO THE EXISTING BUILDING, OR TURN RIGHT TO GO INTO THE NEW ADDITION.
BECAUSE OF THE LIMITS IN THE EXISTING BUILDING AND THE WORK THAT HAS GONE INTO IT TO DATE, THERE IS NOT A DESIRE TO TRY TO EXPAND OR MOVE THIS FAR. THIS STAYS THE SAME.
REPLACING A NEW BAR OVER HERE, IN THE CENTER HERE.
AND NEW RESTROOM FACILITIES BACK HERE, WITH A STORAGE ROOM IN THE SPEC CORNER. ALL OF THIS HAS BEEN DESIGNED TO ANSWER A COUPLE OF KEY CONCERNS, I THINK, JUST PICKED UP THROUGH THE TALK. THAT'S ONE, OF COURSE, IS NOISE. THE FIRST OBVIOUS CHANGE -- WE HAVE TAKEN AWAY ALL OF THE OUTSIDE AREA THAT WAS THERE PREVIOUSLY. WHERE THAT TAILGATING ACTIVITY MIGHT HAPPEN. WE'VE ALSO PLACED THE RESTROOMS AND THE STORAGE ROOM BACK HERE, IN THIS CORNER, ALONG, IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT, THE NEIGHBORHOOD SIDE.
WITH THIS WALL AND THIS WHILE BEING SOLID.
THERE'S ONE EXIT DOOR RIGHT HERE WHICH WOULD BE HOLLOW AND METAL INSULATED DOOR FOR EMERGENCY USE ONLY.
OTHERWISE, THERE WOULD BE NO WINDOWS OR PENETRATIONS THROUGH THIS WALL. THE INTENT IS TO HEAVILY INSULATE THAT WALL WITH THE SPRAY FOAM INSULATION THAT HAS A HIGH ACOUSTICAL VALUE. AND DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO KEEP ANY SOUND FROM LEAKING DIRECTLY THROUGH THOSE DIRECTIONS THERE. PREVIOUS TO YESTERDAY, I WAS ABLE TO TALK WITH KEVIN -- THE OWNERSHIP YESTERDAY.
WE TALKED ABOUT THE NOISE ISSUES AND WHAT ELSE COULD WE DO TO ALLEVIATE SOME OF THOSE CONCERNS? AND WE DECIDED TO -- I APOLOGIZE.
THIS JUST CAME UP YESTERDAY. SO I HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO UPDATE ALL THE DRAWINGS. BUT THE INTENT IS TO BRING THE ROOF OUT AND COVER THIS EXTERIOR PATIO HERE.
SO THE PRESENTATION, AND PREVIOUS WEEKS, THAT WAS A SMART PERGOLA, MUCH LIKE YOU SEE AROUND TOWN.
IT HAD CANVAS SIDES. THE INTENT IS TO -- AND I WILL JUST SHOW YOU THE NEXT ONE HERE.
THIS WAS THE PREVIOUS DESIGN. AS YOU CAN SEE, THE SMART PERGOLA AROUND THEIR, ON THE OUTDOOR DECK -- WHAT WE DECIDED YESTERDAY WAS THAT WE WOULD TAKE -- YOU CAN SEE THERE THAT THE ROOF COMES OUT. AND THIS BECOMES GLASS.
[00:05:02]
AND STOREFRONT. LIKE THE OTHER RETAIL SPOTS.SO THIS IS COMPLETELY ENCLOSED, ALL FOUR SIDES OF THE BUILDING.
3 AND A HALF SIDES BEING SOLID WALL, AND THE FRONT FACING THE (NAME)'S GLASS. SO HOPEFULLY, THAT WAS DONE SPECIFICALLY TO HOPEFULLY RESPOND TO THAT CONCERN OF PNOISE THAT MIGHT ESCAPE DURING PEAK OPERATION HOURS, ETC. TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA ON THE RENDERINGS, AND AGAIN, YOU HAVE SEEN THESE BEFORE I THINK. IT'S A LITTLE DARK.
THAT WAS A RENDERING BEFORE. AND YOU CAN KIND OF SEE, IF YOU LOOK HARD, THAT IS THAT SMART PERGOLA RIGHT THERE.
THE CHANGE WOULD BE TO BRING THE ROOF OUT HERE.
CONTINUE IT ON OUT. AND WHERE YOU SEE THAT KIND OF BLUE WOULD BE ENCLOSED WITH GLASS.
THIS WAS THE OTHER RENDERING, AND THE SAME THING.
THIS FROM THIS ANGLE, WE HAD, AGAIN, THE SMART PERGOLA HERE.
AND YOU CAN SEE THE RAILING THERE AND THE CHAIRS BEYOND.
AND THIS WOULD, OF COURSE, HAVE MULLIONS AND STOREFRONT GLASS IN IT. I JUST PUT THE BLUE IN THERE TO TRY TO SHOW YOU THE EXTENT OF THE IMPROVEMENTS -- OR IMPROVEMENT -- TO THAT SECTION OF THE BUILDING.SO YOU CAN SEE THAT IT USED TO BE -- THE RAILINGS THERE AND SOME TABLES OUT HERE ON THE -- WHERE WE ARE MAKING STRIDES TO CONTROL THAT NOISE. REALLY, I THINK THAT'S THE EXTENT OF THE PRESENTATION SIDE.
IF I CAN ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS OR RESPOND TO ANYTHING THE GROUP WOULD LIKE TO HEAR SPECIFICALLY?
>> BEFORE I GO TO COMMITTEE QUESTIONS -- SO WOULD THERE BE
NO OUTDOOR SEATING? >> IN THE NEW STRUCTURE OVER HERE, THERE IS NO OUTDOOR SEATING.
IT SHOWS UP HERE RIGHT NOW. HAT WAS OUR PREVIOUS PLAN WAS TO HAVE A PROCEEDING ON THE. BUT OUR CURRENT IDEA IS WHERE THAT YELLOW IS, WE WOULD EXTEND THE BUILDING OUT AND CLOSE IT.
IN THE NEW BUILDING WOULD BE 100 PERCENT AND CLOSED.
COUNCILOR AASEN IS JOINING US REMOTELY.
COUNSELOR, DO YOU HAVE QUESTIONS?
>> YES. SO I GUESS TWO THINGS.
ONE, YOU STILL HAVE THE GARAGE DOORS THAT WOULD OPEN UP AT CERTAIN POINTS OF THE AREA, IS THAT CORRECT?
>> WE DON'T. ON THE NEW BUILDING HERE.
WE USED TO SHOW GARAGE DOORS HERE AND HERE.
WE HAVE REMOVED THOSE AND JUST MOVED THE STOREFRONT OUT TO
HERE. >> SO ON THE CENTER THAT CONNECTS THE TWO BUILDINGS, THERE IS NO LONGER A GARAGE DOOR OPENING UP TO THE OUTSIDE THERE?
>> OKAY. SO THE OTHER QUESTION THAT I HAD, AND I KNOW RACHEL BROUGHT THIS UP WAS HOW NARROW THE CONNECTING HALLWAY, OR STRUCTURE WAS, BETWEEN THE TWO BUILDINGS. HAS THERE BEEN ANY DISCUSSION
ON EQUITY. >> YET, RACHEL AND I TALKED ABOUT THAT BEFORE. THIS PLAN DOESN'T SHOW IT, BUT WE AGREED TO MOVE THAT DOOR. THAT ONE RIGHT THERE.E SAID WE WOULD MOVE IT OUT HERE SO THERE WAS MORE SPACE IN THIS FESTIVAL HERE. AND THAT IS A FIXED CONSTRUCTED
WHAT IS THE CAPACITY FOR CUSTOMERS IN THIS NEW SPACE?
>> GOOD QUESTION. (SIGHING) I DO NOT KNOW OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. IT WOULD BE THE SQUARE FOOTAGE DIVIDED BY 15. I COULD TELL YOU THAT.
I THINK WE ARE PROBABLY ABOUT -- WHERE ARE WE? MAYBE, 3000 SQUARE FEET? WE MIGHT BE LOOKING AT --
WHAT'S THAT -- 3000?15. >> I WAS A JOURNALISM MAJOR, SO -- (LAUGHING)!> YEAH, I CAN'T DO MATH ON THE FLY.
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BUT THAT WOULD BE DICTATED BY BUILDING CODE.ORTHE FIRE MARSHAL , IF THEY CHOSE TO PICK AN OCCUPANCY LOAD. THAT IS HAPPENED BEFORE.
>> OKAY. THAT'S ALL FOR ME RIGHT NOW.
>> OKAY. COUNCILOR NELSON.> THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE TONIGHT, DAN. THE QUESTIONS I HAVE, I THINK YOU ARE THE RIGHT PERSON TO ASK ON THE BUILDING MATERIALS.
YOU HAD MENTIONED ACOUSTICAL DAMPENING CHARACTERISTICS.
AND SO, THE QUESTIONS, OR THE COMPLAINTS THAT I'M OFTEN HEARING FROM SOME OF THE NEIGHBORS IS THAT IT IS LOUD.
IT WAS LOUD WHEN THE GOAT WAS OPEN.
SO HAVING DINNERS OUT IN THEIR COURTYARDS NORTH OF THE GOAT WAS PROHIBITIVE. SO, YOU HAD MENTIONED A COUPLE OF THINGS: THE RETAIL WINDOWS -- I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH THAT.
IS THAT SOMETHING MORE SUBSTANTIAL THAN REGULAR HOUSE
WINDOWS OR SOMETHING? >> WELL, LIKE THE FRONT RAILYARD. THAT'S WHAT I MEAN BY STOREFRONT. YEAH, IT'S INSULATED GLASS -- THE GLASS PART. THE DOORS ARE USUALLY QUARTER-INCH GLASS. WHAT YOU WOULD SEE ON A TYPICAL RETAIL STRIP CENTER ANYWHERE, REALLY.
>> OKAY. SO THERE ARE MORE -- IT'S MORE
INSULATING AND DAMPING? >> ABSOLUTELY.
CERTAINLY MORE SO THAN CANVAS. >> AND YOU HAD ANSWERED COUNSELOR ESSENCE QUESTIONS ON GARAGE DOORS.
SO IT WILL NOW BE A FIXED TYPE, WITHOUT ANY OF THESE, YOU KNOW, PCOVERINGS? SO I'M ASSUMING THERE SHOULD BE
MORE DAMPENING BECAUSE OF THAT? >> YEAH.
ABSOLUTELY. AND THE NEW ADDITION, ALL THE WALLS ARE SOLID.SO THE BACK TO WALLS, THE CORNER -- THIS IS SOLID. THIS IS SOLID.
WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT WHETHER IT'S METAL STUD WITH A SPRAY INSULATION, OR IF IT'S CONCRETE BLOCK.
WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN THAT FAR YET. >> SO THAT IS FOAM INSULATION THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT? IS THAT LIKE THE YELLOW STUFF? IS THIS A SPECIAL TYPE OF NOISE DAMPENING STUFF?
>> THERE IS NOTHING MAGICAL ABOUT ACOUSTICAL INSULATION.
INSULATION PROVIDES ACOUSTICAL VALUE AND IT'S THE SAME PRODUCT. BUT THE SPRAY IS MORE ACOUSTICALLY -- IT SEALS BETTER THAN INSULATION USUALLY.
JUST THE WORKMANSHIP. IF THEY SPRAY THE CAVITIES -- WHETHER WE HAVE BLOCK, WITH A -- WHAT AM I TRYING TO SAY? STUD INSIDE THE BLOCK? AND THAT SPRAYED WITH DRYWALL OVER IT. OR -- I PROBABLY WOULDN'T WANT TO DO BLOCK. IT'S GOT A NICE -- IT'S GOT MASS, BUT IT'S HARD TO INSULATE.
RIGHT? SO YOU PROBABLY WANT TO USE A STUD WALL WITH THE SPRAYED INSULATION.
>> HAVE YOU BEEN IN A SITUATION, OR HAVE YOU BUILT SOMETHING WITH THESE TYPES OF CHALLENGES? THESE TYPES OF REQUIREMENTS, WHERE YOU ARE TRYING TO BE A GOOD NEIGHBOR? YOU KNOW, FROM A NOISE
PERSPECTIVE? >> THE PALLADIUM, MAY BE
OKAY. ARE YOU INVOLVED WITH THE
TARKENTON? >> NOT THE TARKENTON.
JUST THE PALLADIUM. BUT IT'S A COMMON CONCERN.
WHETHER IT'S IN OFFICE BETWEEN MEETING ROOMS. WE HAVE A (INDISCERNIBLE) THAT I USE WHO IS FROM ORANGE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA. WHO COMES ONCE A MONTH TO OUR OFFICE FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS. AND LOOKS FOR ALL KINDS OF ISSUES. WHETHER IT'S SEPARATION BETWEEN UNITS IN CONDOMINIUMS OR APARTMENTS, CLASSROOMS, UNIVERSITIES -- ALTHOUGH SORTS OF THINGS.
WE ALSO, AT MY OLD FIRM, WERE INVOLVED WITH -- WHAT WAS THE NAME OF IT? IT WAS DOWN BY CIRCLE CENTER MALL. WE WERE TO PUT AN ENTERTAINMENT VENUE IN ONE OF THOSE SPACES DOWN THERE.
SO WE SPRAYED -- TRY TO DO SOME STUFF TO IMPROVE THE ACOUSTICS.
>> OUT IN YOUR OPINION, ARE WE DOING ALL WE CAN TO MITIGATE OUTSIDE NOISE -- ONCE EVERYBODY MOVES INSIDE?
>> I MEAN, YEAH. I THINK WE ARE DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN IS A RELATIVE TERM. I THINK WE ARE DOING A VERY REASONABLE JOB. AND BEYOND REASONABLE, IN A WAY, BY GOING TO THE SPRAY. GOING TO THE COMPLETE ENCLOSURE. ELIMINATING THE PERGOLA AND OUTDOOR SEATING. I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S -- TO ME, THAT'S A VERY AGGRESSIVE STEP TO LOWERING THE SOUND.
COMPARED TO OTHER RESTAURANTS ON THE BLOCK AND OTHER RESTAURANTS AND TAVERNS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
[00:15:04]
MY OFFICE IS ON THE CORNER THERE, SO I'M FAMILIAR WITH ALL THE THINGS GOING ON AROUND HERE.THAT WOULD BE THE HIGHEST, I THINK, STANDARD OF ACOUSTICAL SEPARATION FROM ANY OF THE SURROUNDING ESTABLISHMENTS.
FROM WHAT I KNOW. >> COUNCILOR GREEN.
>> DAN, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN ANSWER THIS QUESTION, BUT SINCE THE DRAWING IS UP THERE -- DO YOU KNOW WHERE THE SPEAKERS ARE? THE OUTDOOR SPEAKERS?
SPEAKERS, BUT --. >> I THINK IT WAS PREVIOUSLY AGREED TO THAT THERE WOULD BE NO OUTDOOR SPEAKERS.
>> THANKS. >> COUNSELOR (NAME).
>> THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. I SAID LAST TIME THAT I WANTED TO GET INTO THE DETAILS. I DO WANT TO PREFACE MY STATEMENT WITH I WANT TO BE FAIR.
I WANT TO BE FAIR TO THE NEIGHBORS, AND I WANT TO BE FAIR TO THE PETITIONER. SO I WANT TO FIRST GIVE ACCOMMODATION TO THE PETITIONER.
I MET WITH MR. MORIARTY YESTERDAY.
HE HAS TAKEN THE THINGS THAT I ASKED HIM TO DO TO HEART, AND WE NOW HAVE A NEW DESIGN. FOR ME, THIS IS ABOUT NOISE.
THAT IS THE BIGGEST ISSUE THAT WE ARE DEALING WITH.
I THINK, UNFORTUNATELY, FOR A LOT -- IT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS.
I ALMOST FEEL LIKE SOMETIMES WE'RE TRYING TO FIT A SQUARE PEG INTO A ROUND HOLE. BECAUSE THIS IS THE GREATEST OF ALL TAVERNS. THIS IS NOT A RESTAURANT.
SO IN ORDER TO MAKE THIS PROJECT WORK ON THAT PIECE OF LAND, I HAVE SAID IT NEEDS TO BE AN INDOOR FACILITY.
IT APPEARS AS THOUGH THAT IS WHAT YOU HAVE DONE.
AND I HAVE TRIED TO TELL THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE LOBBIED AND PETITIONED ME THAT THAT WAS MY ISSUE.
I THINK I'VE SAID IT NOW FOR QUITE A BIT OF TIME.I DO WANT TO GET INTO THE DETAILS ABOUT HOURS AND SOME OTHER THINGS.
BUT THIS IS A GREAT FIRST STEP. BUT THE ONE QUESTION I WOULD HAVE IS THAT WE STILL HAVE AN OUTDOOR PERGOLA ON THE EXISTING BUILDING. WE HAVE NOT ADDRESSED THAT.
TO ME, OUTDOOR IS OUTDOOR. WHETHER IT IS EXISTING OR NEW.
AND I DO WANT TO MAKE ONE OTHER JUST COMMENT.
IS THAT IT IS -- YOU KNOW, THERE IS THIS INCLINATION THAT WE WANT TO ENJOY THE OUTDOORS AND WE WANT TO MERGE THE MOAN AND WITH OUR BUSINESSES. BUT IN THIS CASE, I ON'T THINK THAT WILL WORK. I KNOW STAFF HAS ASKED FOR IT.
YOU KNOW, THAT COMBINATION IS MUCH AS IT IS, BUT I NEED TO GET RID OF THE OUTDOORS IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO SEE IF THIS WILL WORK IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. SO THAT IS WHERE I AM COMING FROM. THAT MAY NOT BE TO YOUR LIKING, BUT THAT IS WHERE I AM COMING FROM.
SO CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT THE OUTDOOR PERGOLA? WHAT IS THE PLAN FOR IT?N MY OPINION, YOU HAVE CREATED A FORESIGHTED INDOOR FACILITY ON THE NEW PART, BUT I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE EXISTING PERGOLA. WHICH, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, ONLY HAS PLASTIC SHEETING, OR -- THAT COMES DOWN.
>> SO WE HADN'T TALKED TOO MUCH ABOUT ANY CHANGES TO THE EXISTING BUILDING AND THE EXISTING PERGOLA.
I ACTUALLY MET WITH CLAUDIO YESTERDAY -- OR TWO DAYS AGO.
BECAUSE THERE IS BEEN SOME CONCERN ABOUT THE LOOK OF THE SMART PERGOLAS. AND IF THERE ARE THINGS WE CAN DO TO DO THAT, INSTEAD OF USING THE PLASTIC? IS THERE OTHER MATERIALS WE COULD USE OR PUT IN PERMANENT WINDOWS? THAT SORT OF THING.
BECAUSE I THINK THE ISSUE HAS COME UP ACROSS THE STREET AT THE MEXICAN RESTAURANT. I CAN THINK OF THE NAME OF IT.
AND WE HAVE LOOKED AT PRODUCTS TO MAKE THAT SOLID.
LIKE, THE FRONT. OF COURSE, IT COSTS.
IT'S MUCH, MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE TO ENCLOSE IT IN A SOLID WAY THAN IT IS WITH THE CANVAS. OUTSIDE, WE ARE DOING SOMETHING LIKE THAT. WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT ANY CHANGES TO THE EXISTING DECK --.
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>> OKAY. I DON'T MEAN TO PUT YOU ON THE SPOT, BUT THE PETITIONER IS HERE.
THIS IS A WORKING COMMITTEE. MADAM CHAIR, ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH ME ASKING IF THAT IS SOMETHING THE PETITIONER WOULD CONSIDER DOING?
X YES. >> SO WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO
ENCLOSE THE OUTDOOR PERGOLA AS WELL?>> IT HURTS! I'M NOT GOING TO LIE. THE BEAUTY OF THE SPACE AND THE OPENNESS. AND THEY CERTAINLY HAVE BEEN SENSITIVE TO ANY INQUIRY OR REQUEST.
AND HAVE DONE A GREAT DEAL OF WORK TO TRY TO GET SOMETHING -- THAT I KNOW WILL WORK. NOT ONLY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT THE GREENWAY AND THE CITY. CERTAINLY, I WOULD ACQUIESCE TO AND CLOSING IT, IF THAT IS WHAT IT NEEDS TO BE.
MY FIRST REQUEST WOULD BE CAN WE TRY 7:00 FIRST? IT'S JUST TOUGH TO LOOK ACROSS THE STREET ON TWO SIDES, AND THEN, AND 12 MONTHS, TO THE NORTH OF ME AND HAVE THOUSANDS OF SQUARE FEET OF OUTDOOR RESTAURANT SPACE WITHIN 30 FEET OF MY FRONT DOOR. THAT JUST STINGS.
IT'S A BUMMER. BUT I WILL CERTAINLY DO WHAT I HAVE TO DO. TO KEEP THE PROJECT MOVING
FORWARD. >> AND JUST CURIOSITY -- SINCE I'M HEARING ABOUT THIS NOW, ARE THE WINDOWS THAT ARE ON THE NEW CONSTRUCTION PART, ARE THOSE PERMANENT? DO THEY GO UP AND DOWN OR ANY OF THAT BUSINESS?> NO.
THEY WILL BE FIXED. PERMANENT.
DO YOU WANT ME TO GO THROUGH ALL MY QUESTIONS, MADAM CHAIR? OR ARE WE GOING TO MOVE AROUND --?
>> YEAH, PLEASE. >> CAN WE ALSO TALK ABOUT -- AND I THINK COUNCILOR RIDER -- WE TALKED ABOUT IF SOMETHING -- IF YOU WERE TO BREAK ANY OF THE COMMITMENTS, OR SOMETHING WITH HER COMMITMENTS WERE TO GO WRONG, WHAT IS OUR ABILITY TO CONTROL THAT? AND HAVE SOME RECOURSE OTHER THAN A LAWSUIT WHICH TAKES TIME? AND WE SAW WHAT HAPPENED LAST TIME.
ARE THERE OTHER WAYS WE CAN ADDRESS THAT?
>> GOOD EVENING, COMMITTEE MEMBERS.
COUNCILOR WORRELL, THE ENFORCEMENT (INDISCERNIBLE) IS STATUTORILY SET FORTH. WE HAVE TO FOLLOW THE PROCEDURE SET OUT IN INDIANA CODE. THAT WOULD BE MAKING A POINT TO THE (INDISCERNIBLE) JURISDICTION TO ENFORCE THE COMMITMENT. THE COMMITMENTS MADE AS PART OF THE RESULT HAVE TO BE ENFORCED IN THAT MATTER.DUMB ECONOMIC MANNER. THE CITY HAS OTHER TOOLS AT THEIR DISPOSAL. AS FAR AS NUISANCE -- THE NOISE ORDINANCE, AND OTHER CITY CODE OPTIONS.
>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT REAL QUICK.
IF THERE WAS A 90 DB THAT OUR OFFICERS FIND, WHAT IS THE REALITY? WHAT ACTUALLY WHAT HAPPENED
THAT NIGHT? >> THEY WOULD HAVE TO ABATE THE NUISANCE. IN DOMINIC AND ORDINANCE VIOLATION IS A CIVIL INFRACTION.
SO WE WOULD BE ABLE TO ISSUE A CITATION AND PROSECUTE THAT IN COURT OR HAMILTON COUNTY COURT. AND MAKE SURE THAT WE SEEK APPROPRIATE REMEDIES FROM THE JUDGE AS FAR AS FINES.
>> OKAY. IS THERE A REASON WE DIDN'T DO
THAT THE FIRST GO AROUND? >> YOU KNOW, THE NOISE ORDINANCE HAD SOME ISSUES AS FAR AS ENFORCEABILITY IN CITY COURT. THE CITY COURT JUDGE HAD EXPRESSED HIS OPINION THAT THE WAY IT WAS CONSTITUTED IN 2020, WHEN THIS WAS AN ISSUE, HE DIDN'T THINK IT WAS ENFORCEABLE. WE MADE QUITE A FEW CHANGES TO IT. WE THINK IT'S CLEAR AND CONSTITUTIONAL AND ENFORCEABLE. SO I THINK WE WOULD HAVE A MUCH GREATER CHANCE OF SUCCESS WITH IT.
>> OKAY. >> COUNSELOR MOREL, DO YOU HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE COMMITMENTS?
>> YEAH. >> WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO -- LET'S CONTINUE WITH ARCHITECTURAL QUESTIONS.ND THEN, WE WILL COME BACK TO THE (INDISCERNIBLE).
FAR AS A PERGOLA. >> THANK YOU.
[00:25:01]
>> -- -- YOU STILL HAVE PEOPLE ENTERING AND FOOD CROSSING WITH THE KITCHEN. BUT THAT CAN BE TAKEN CARE OF DURING A DLS. SO FROM AN ARCHITECTURAL STANDPOINT, COUNCILMAN (INDISCERNIBLE) COVERED MY
NOW WE WILL MOVE TO THE COMMITMENTS.
LET'S START WITH THE COMMITTEE FIRST.
DOES ANYBODY ON THE COMMITTEE HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE COMMITMENTS? COUNCILOR GREEN?
>> COUNCILOR WORRELL STARTED TO GO INTO IT.
WHEN DANNY BOYS WAS IN MY OLD DISTRICT, MY CONSTITUENTS WOULD ASK ME TO GO THERE ALL THE TIME TO MEET WITH THEM.
MY SON AND MY DAUGHTERS OF DRINKING AGE ATTEND.
ATTEND THE ESTABLISHMENT. TALKING TO THE PEOPLE IN THAT AREA, NO ISSUES AND NO QUESTIONS.
WHEN I LOOK AT THE LOCATION, I LOOK AT THE PRODUCT -- AT LEAST THE DANNY BOY TYPE PROJECT. I THINK IT WOULD FIT PERFECTLY IN THAT TYPEOF AREA. AND YOU HAVE MADE TONS OF FACILITY CHANGES . TO FIT AND TAKE CARE THE NOISE BASED ON A LOT OF THE QUESTIONS AND ONE TINGS OF THE COUNCIL MEMBERS. BUT AS COUNCILOR WORRELL WAS GOING EARLIER INTO -- ONE OF THE QUESTIONS IS ABOUT THE ENFORCEMENT. AND ANY WILLINGNESS TO SHIFT ON THE COMMITMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE, TO ENSURE THAT GOING INTO THE FUTURE, IF THERE ARE ISSUES OR PROBLEMS OR NOISE, HOW WE CAN -- HAVE THE CONFIDENCE THAT THE ESTABLISHMENT WILL COMPLY WITH THOSECOMMITMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE .
AS FAR AS -- CAN WE GO INTO THE SPECIFIC COMMITMENTS? YOU DISCUSSED, OR YOU JUST KIND OF THROUGHOUT THEIR IN RESPONSE TO COUNCILOR WORRELL'S QUESTIONS ABOUT THE OUTDOOR PIECE. YOU MENTIONED SHUTTING IT DOWN
>> THAT IS SOMETHING YOU WOULD BE WILLING TO SHIP TOWARDS?
>> IF IT WOULD ALLOW ME TO KEEP SOME OUTDOOR SPACE, PARTICULARLY FOR SATURDAY AND SUNDAY AFTERNOONS? SUMMERTIME, WHEN IT'S -- IT'S PRETTY ACTIVE DOWN THERE.
WE'VE ALL BEEN DOWN THERE ON A SATURDAY AFTERNOON, WHEN IT IS BEAUTIFUL OUT. I THINK THAT WOULD BE PRETTY SIGNIFICANT. I WOULD ABSOLUTELY ENTERTAIN THAT BEFORE CLOSING IT. THAT WOULD BE MY PREFERENCE.
IF IT WAS FOUND ACCEPTABLE. AND IF WE FIND OUT IT DOESN'T WORK, THEN LET'S COME BACK HERE AND AMENDED AND CHANGE IT.
>> ALL RIGHT. THAT'S JUST MY FIRST QUESTION.
YOU CAN COME BACK TO ME AFTERWARDS.
>> COUNCILOR NELSON. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE AGAIN. IT'S GREAT TO HAVE YOUR TEAM HERE. BECAUSE WE HAVE SOME QUESTIONS.
I APPRECIATE YOU STANDING UP THERE AND ANSWERING THEM.
WHAT WE ARE HEARING A LOT OF -- I'LL JUST SPEAK FOR MYSELF -- WHAT I'M HEARING A LOT OF HIS CONCERNS FOR AN ADULT ONLY TYPE OF ESTABLISHMENT BRINGING DOWN THE -- WHAT WE HAVE ALL COME TO ENJOY. THERE ARE CONCERNS ABOUT THAT.
ND IF MY CONSTITUENTS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT IT, I AM OBVIOUSLY CONCERNED ABOUT IT TOO.
I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU ANSWER THAT.
OR HOW YOU DEAL WITH THAT? HOW CAN YOU ENSURE -- SO IT'S KIND OF LIKE IT BECOMES A QUESTION OF WHETHER OR NOT WE THINK, YOU KNOW, AN ADULT ONLY TYPE OF ESTABLISHMENT FITS WITH THE COMMON THEME THAT WE HAVE PRIOR TO THESE PLANS COME UP WHEN YOU ONLY HAD ONE BATHROOM AND PEOPLE WERE LEAVING AND GOING INTO THE COLLINS YARD. WE OBVIOUSLY HAD TO PASS AN ORDINANCE TO DEAL WITH URINATION AND DEFECATING AND WHATEVER WAS GOING ON IN THEIR YARDS.
I ASKED YOU AT THE LAST COMMITTEE MEETING WHETHER OR NOT YOU WOULD BE OPEN TO COMMITTING TO HAVING SOME SORT OF SECURITY? TWO, THREE SECURITY GUARDS.
I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT YOUR ANSWER WAS, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK YOU ANSWERED IT. SO I WAS HOPING THAT MAYBE YOU COULD ANSWER THAT? MAYBE COMMIT TO SOMETHING LIKE
WE PUT (INDISCERNIBLE) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS UP.
WE DID HAVE, AFTER OCTOBER 2020, WE HAD BOTH PRIVATE SECURITY AS WELL AS ADDITIONAL STAFF TO HELP PROVIDE SECURITY,
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BOTH CARTING, PROPERTY MANAGEMENT.MAKING SURE THE NEIGHBORS YARDS WERE APPROPRIATELY POLICED OR GOVERNED, SO TO SPEAK. SO WE CERTAINLY WILL DO THAT WHEN BUSINESS WARRANTS. WE DO IT AT SAINT PATS AT DANNY BOY. WE HAVE PEOPLE TO SET DUMB ACT -- -- IT CERTAINLY IS A COST THAT WE HAVE INVESTED IN.
WE CERTAINLY WOULD CONTINUE TO DO THAT.
THE NATURE OF THE BUSINESS IS ALREADY MORPHING.
THE CONCEPT, AND ANYONE WHO HAS BEEN IN THERE UNDERSTANDS IT'S A PRETTY HIGH-END PLACE. IT'S ALL HANDCRAFTED.
IT'S GOT LIMITED EDITION PRINTS AND PHOTOGRAPHS ON THE WALLS.
IT WAS DESIGNED TO BE A NOR'EASTER COCKTAIL TAVERN.
WE CAPTURED IT. IN COVID, WHEN EVERYTHING WAS SHUT DOWN, WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.
WE WERE IN THE MIDDLE OF A PANDEMIC.
I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WOULD SHOW UP WHEN WE OPENED, BECAUSE EVERYBODY WAS GOING OUT OF BUSINESS OR SHUTTING THEIR DOORS. IT HAPPENED TO EXPLODE.
IT'S A NEAT PLACE. WHEN WE FIRST BUILT THE CONCEPT, IT WAS ALWAYS GOING TO BE OVER 21.
BECAUSE FAMILIES HAVE 18-YEAR-OLDS AND OLDER AND THEIR FAMILIES TOO. WE HAVE ALL KINDS OF FAMILIES IN THAT PLACE. GRANDPARENTS, PARENTS, YOUNG CHILDREN OUT OF COLLEGE. YOUNG PROFESSIONALS.
WE WERE ASKED TO BE OVER 21 BECAUSE THERE IS A HUGE DEMAND FOR IT. THERE ARE PLACES WHERE TEACHERS WANT TO GO AFTER WORK AND NOT BUMP INTO STUDENTS WILL STOP WHERE THEY CAN HANG OUT. THERE IS A NEED FOR IT.
THE ORIGINAL CONCEPT OF THE GREENWAY IS STILL DEFINED IN PAPERWORK AS THE ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT.
THAT WOULD IMPLY SOME ASPECT OF DIVERSITY OF OFFERING.
ONE OF THE THINGS I WAS VERY PROUD OF OF WHAT WE CREATED AT THE GOAT TAVERN WAS THE DIVERSITY OF ALL DEMOGRAPHICS.
IT WAS AN AWESOME, AWESOME PLACE THAT HAD EARLY ISSUES THAT WE WERE ALL CONCERNED ABOUT.
WE ADDRESSED THEM. BEN IS HERE AND HE CAN SPEAK OPERATIONALLY TO WHAT WE HAVE DONE AND WHAT WE WILL CONTINUE TO DO. JUST BECAUSE IT'S NOT ON PAPER DOESN'T MEAN WE WON'T KEEP THE CAMERAS UP.
WE HAVE CAMERAS INSIDE WITH TVS AND MONITORS.
WE PUT SIGNAGE UP. PARTITION OFFENSES.
WE'VE PULLED NO PUNCHES AT TRYING TO RECTIFY ANY CONCERN OR PROBLEM ADDRESSED. EVERY ONE OF THEM.
SOME TO THE POINT WHERE I THINK IT IS CONTRA PRODUCTIVE.
BUT WE WORK THROUGH IT. BUT WE CERTAINLY WOULD DO THAT.
O ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, SECURITY IS NOT A PROBLEM.
>> COUNCILOR AASEN, DO YOU HAVE QUESTIONS?> THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE MORE ABOUT THE HOURS. WE ASKED ABOUT THAT THE LAST MEETING. FOR YOUR ATTORNEY, THEY SAID THEY NEEDED TO GET BACK TO YOU FOR THAT.
TO START OFF, I WILL EXPLAIN TO YOU THAT I HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF HESITATION HERE. WE HAVE HEARD THINGS THAT JUST HAVEN'T BEEN 100 PERCENT TRUE. YOU SAID THE ISSUES WERE ONLY COVID RELATED. AND IT WAS THE SHORT PERIOD OF TIME AND WE HAVE NEVER HAD ISSUES BEFORE.
BUT WE CONTINUE TO GET PHONE CALLS AND EMAILS.
AND WITH THESE PHONE CALLS AND EMAILS, WE'VE GOT PHOTOS AND VIDEOS AND RING DOORBELL SHOWING PROBLEMS FAR BEYOND THE FIRST INITIAL MONTHS. FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, I THINK HAVING LATER HOURS THAN OTHER PARTS IN THE AREA SEEM TO ENCOURAGE BEING THE LAST STOP WHEN PEOPLE GO OUT ON A NIGHT OF DRINKING. SON KING OR FOR CANAL MIGHT CLOSE. BUT IF YOU HAVE LATER HOURS, ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE HAD TO THE NEXT PLACE THAT IS OPEN.YOUR ATTORNEY SAID -- I DID REWATCH THE MEETING FROM THE LAST ONE.
HE SAID THAT WE COMMIT TO CLOSING EARLIER THAN THE NEIGHBORS. HE SAID THAT TWICE.
AND WHEN I ASKED HIM ABOUT IT, HE SAID WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF I SAID THAT. BUT AT THE VERY LEAST, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE HOURS THE SAME AS THE NEIGHBORS.
WHICH AS LOOKING UP THE HOURS, WE ARE LOOKING AT ABOUT 11:00 ON WEEKDAYS, AND ABOUT MIDNIGHT ON WEEKENDS.
SO MY QUESTION IS: WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO SHORTEN THE HOURS OF THE ENTIRE PLACE -- NOT JUST THE OUTDOOR AREA AND NOT JUST SHUTTING OFF ALCOHOL SERVICE -- I MEAN EVERYONE OUT THE DOOR, CLOSED, SHORTER THAN WHAT YOU PROPOSED ALREADY?
>> THERE ARE A COUPLE OF THINGS I WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS IF I COULD. AT NO POINT DID WE EVER COMMUNICATE THERE WERE NO ISSUES AFTER OCTOBER.
[00:35:05]
I HAVE ALWAYS SAID ARE WE CHASING A GAME OF PERFECT, OR A LEVEL OF PRACTICALITY? BECAUSE THERE IS ESTABLISHMENT IN TOWN THAT HAS GOTTEN A NOISE COMPLAINT OR HAD SOMEBODY WANDER AROUND ON SOMEBODY ELSE'S PROPERTY OR HAVE SOMETHING HAPPEN. BUT IT WAS REDUCED TO AN INCREDIBLY MANAGEABLE AND PRACTICAL LEVEL.CHIEF OF POLICE WOULD SUPPORT THAT.
CHIEF OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT WILL SUPPORT THOSE REMARKS.
WE CERTAINLY DID ADDRESS THOSE THINGS.
AS FAR AS THE HOURS ARE CONCERNED, I DON'T WANT TO BE THE LATEST PLACE OPEN. ALL I ASK IS THAT MY HOURS BE CONSISTENT WITH EVERYONE ELSE WITHIN A ROCK'S THROW OF MY ESTABLISHMENT. AND IF WE WANT TO PUT VERBIAGE IN THERE THAT SAYS THAT, I AM 100 PERCENT OPEN TO IT.
BUT I DON'T WANT TO SAY I'LL CLOSE AT 11 WHEN AT THE PLACE ACROSS THE STREET THIS LAST MONDAY -- WHAT'S FAIR FOR THEM SHOULD BE FAIR FOR US. AS FAR AS AN ENTERPRISE.UT I CERTAINLY WILL COMMIT TO 12 AND 1 NO ONE NEEDS TO BE IN THE FACILITY AT 1:30. AND PEOPLE WHO RUN BUSINESSES AND HAVE EMPLOYEES UNDERSTANDS THAT WHEN THE PLACE IS CLOSED, THE EMPLOYEES DO NOT WANT TO STICK AROUND IF THEY AREN'T MAKING ANY MONEY. THEY ARE GONE.
>> YEAH. >> THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES TRYING TO KEEP PEOPLE AROUND UNTIL CLOSING TIME IN SOME
CASES. >> AND I UNDERSTAND THAT.
I GREW UP IN THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY.
MY PARENTS OWNED A BAR GROWING UP.
SO I UNDERSTAND THAT. THE DIFFERENCE, THOUGH, BETWEEN YOU AND SOME OF THE OTHER BUSINESSES IN THE AREAS THAT WE DON'T GET PHONE CALLS OR EMAILS ABOUT THE BUSINESSES.
THEY MAY BE OPEN UNTIL ONE. I DON'T HEAR ANYTHING ABOUT COMPLAINTS, NOISE, OR WANDERING ON PROPERTY FROM THOSE BUSINESSES. I MEAN, OTHER COUNSELORS CAN HAVE THEIR OPINION. I WILL NOT BE A YES VOTE UNLESS THE HOURS ARE SHORTENED. AT LEAST 11 ON WEEKDAYS, MIDNIGHT ON WEEKENDS. THAT IS KIND OF WHERE I'M AT.
>> ANYTHING ELSE, COUNCILOR AASEN?
THE COUNSELOR BROUGHT UP AN ISSUE THAT I'VE BEEN HEARING A LOT THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS. HIS COUNSEL TAKING ON THE JOB OF CODE ENFORCEMENT BY ASKING ABOUT NOISE ISSUES, AND ENCLOSING PERGOLAS? UNFORTUNATELY, WE DON'T HAVE A COUNSELOR WHO WAS ACTIVELY REPRESENTING THAT DISTRICT, AND WE HAVE ALL BEEN RECEIVING PHONE CALLS.
SO WHETHER WE ARE AT LARGE OR IN A DIFFERENT DISTRICT.
THESE ARE CONCERNS THAT WE DO NEED TO ADDRESS.
COUNCILOR WORRELL, I MISHEARD YOUR QUESTION EARLIER.
I WANT TO GIVE YOU TIME TO ASK YOUR QUESTIONS NOW, ABOUT THE
THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. LET ME START OUT WITH RACHEL.
DO WE HAVE, NOW, HUBER AND LIFT PICKING UP IN THE GARAGE? MAYBE IT'S MR. OBERLANDER? BUT THAT WAS ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT WE HAD. WHEN YOU CLOSE A BAR AT 12:00, UNLIKE A RESTAURANT, WHERE THERE IS A SMATTERING OF PEOPLE LEFT OVER, THE BAR YOU HAVE A GOOD CROWD.
AND WHAT HAPPENS IS HUNDREDS -- I WITNESSED IT -- COME ROLLING OUT AT THE SAME TIME BECAUSE THERE IS NO MORE ALCOHOL.
WE HAD A REAL ISSUE WITH THE WHOLE CHAOS OF THAT ACTIVITY.
WHICH STILL GIVES ME PAUSE. BUT ONE OF THE SOLUTION WAS TO TRY TO GET IT MOVED -- GET THE PICKUP MOVED TO THE
(INDISCERNIBLE) GARAGE. >> I'M SO SORRY, I DO NOT KNOW
I SHOULD HAVE DONE MY HOMEWORK AHEAD OF TIME.
I WILL FIND OUT BEFORE WE GO TO COUNSEL.
>> I'M SO SORRY. >> THAT'S OKAY.
>> I CAN ASK AROUND TOO. >> LET'S MAKE THAT A THING.
THAT WAS PROMISED AS ONE OF THE OTHER -- MAYBE YOU KNOW --?
>> SO DAN (NAME) IS SOMEONE YOU CAN FOLLOW UP WITH.
HE ACTUALLY SET IT UP FOR US. I THINK, TECHNICALLY, IT'S THE CORNER OF AND ELM. SO IF YOU SAY YOU ARE GETTING PICKED UP AT THE GOAT, THAT'S WHERE IT SENDS YOU AS YOUR PICKUP AND DROP OFF PLACE. HUBER AND I BELIEVE LIFT AS
I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING WE NEED TO MAKE SURE IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING. PROBABLY NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT 200 PEOPLE ROLLING OUTSIDE ALL AT THE SAM TIME.
[00:40:07]
>> SO, I MEAN, GENERAL PRACTICE? THAT'S WHY THESE HEART STOPS ARE LITTLE COMPLICATED.
MR. RIDER COULD THIS AS WELL. WHEN YOU DO LAST CALL, YOU TRY TO PHASE AND HIT EVERY TABLE. CASH THEM OUT, MOVE THEM OUT -- CASH AMOUNT, MOVE THEM OUT SO YOU DON'T HAVE 30, 40 PEOPLE BOUNCING AT THE EXACT SAME TIME.
SO YOU GENERALLY DO LAST CALL 15, 20 MINUTES BEFORE YOU ARE GOING TO CLOSE. YOU FINALIZE ALL OF YOUR TICKETS. THE TOP OF THE HOUR.
I DO TRY TO GET THEM OUT THE NEXT 15, 20 MINUTES AND WAVE THEM OVER THAT LAST HALF HOUR, 45 MINUTES TIME.
WE HAD DIFFICULTY DOING THAT EARLY ON.
12:00, EVERYBODY GET OUTTA HERE.
WHEN WE HAD THE 12:00 WEEKDAY STOP --.
>> SO MAYBE I SHOULD ASK COUNCILOR RIDER: IS IT NORMAL TO END ALCOHOL SERVICE IS IN THE COMMITMENT, BUT IT DOESN'T SAY WHAT TIME YOU CLOSE. I'M JUST WONDERING IF THAT'S A TECHNICALITY? IF THAT'S A LOOPHOLE?
>> NO -- SO --. >> CAN I ORDER A DRINK AT 11:55 AND THEN, SIT THERE FOR THE NEXT HOUR?
>> NO. WE UPDATED THE COMMITMENTS THAT EVERYONE WOULD HAVE TO BE OUT WITHIN A HALF-HOUR OF TICKET CLOSE. AND WE WOULD START LAST CALL ABOUT -- IT'S IN THE PACKET, I'M SORRY.
>> OH, IN THAT PACKET? THE PACKET I JUST GOT?
CROSS TALK] >> SO TECHNICALLY, YES.
SOMEBODY COULD ORDER AT 11:59, GET A DRINK AND CASH OUT.
GENERAL PRACTICE WOULD BE STARTING TO CALL LET'S CALL 15 OR 20 MINUTES EARLIER. AND GETTICKETS OFF THE TABLES , AND BEERS AND COCKTAILS -- CLEANED UP AND MOVED ON.
>> OKAY. SO I'M NOT SURE HOW TO -- OKAY.
30 MINUTES THEREAFTER. SO YOU TECHNICALLY WILL CLOSE THE FACILITY AT 12:30 ON WEEKNIGHTS AND 1:30 ON WEEKENDS. SO THE GROUP YOU JUST MENTIONED, HOW DID THEY DO IT? THE PLACE THAT YOU SAID WAS
OPEN UNTIL ONE? >> THE SAME THING.
>> SO ARE THEY OPEN UNTIL 1:30? >> YEAH.
AT 12:30 WE ORDERED OUR LAST COCKTAIL.
THEY SAID YOU DON'T HAVE TO LEAVE YET, BUT IF YOU ORDER THE NEXT ONE IN THE NEXT 15 MINUTES OR SO, THAT WOULD BE GREAT.
THE SUMMER EXPECTED HOURS ARE 1 AM.
THAT'S HOW THEY DO IT AS WELL. SO ABOUT 12:30 THEY WERE ASKING IS THIS YOUR LAST ONE? DO YOU WANT TO CASH OUT? AND THAT WAS THE PROCESS WE WENT THROUGH.
>> MADAM CHAIR, CAN I CLARIFY? >> YES.
>> WILL BE TALKED ABOUT AT THE LAST MEETING -- BY STATE LAW, IF YOU WERE TO BE A BAR THAT STAYED OPEN UNTIL THREE, WHICH LESS AND LESS ARE DOING THAT BECAUSE NOTHING GOOD HAPPENS THAT LATE. BUT YOU TYPICALLY MAKE LAST CALL BETWEEN 230 AND 245. YOU HAVE TO SERVE THE LAST DRINK BY THREE. AND EVERYBODY HAS TO BE OUT OF THE BUILDING BY3:330. THAT'S WHERE THAT TIMING COMES FROM . ALL RIGHT.
>> HAS THE COMMITTEE HAD ENOUGH TIME TO REVIEW THE COMMITMENTS THAT WERE IN THE PACKET? COUNCILOR GREEN.
(INDISCERNIBLE). I DID NOT HAVE A CHANCE TO SEE
THOSE. >> MADAM CHAIR, MAYBE I SHOULD SAY ARE THERE ANY OTHER CHANGES THAT YOU WANT TO DRAW MY ATTENTION TO THAT IS NOT IN WHAT WE HAVE BEEN STUDYING?
>> I DON'T --. >> COUNSELORS, IF I MIGHT, SINCE I'M THE AUTHOR OF THESE COMMITMENTS.
THESE ARE THE SAME COMMITMENTS THAT CAME OUT OF THE PLAN COMMISSION. AFTER THE LAST MEETING, I
[00:45:06]
CHANGED, AFTER DISCUSSING WITH CLIENT AND COCOUNSEL, ITEM NUMBER 5. THAT READ PREVIOUSLY THAT THE BAR -- THAT ALCOHOL SERVICE WOULD END AT A CERTAIN TIME.AND THERE WAS NO DEFINITE CLOSE TIME.
SINCE THEN, WE HAVE ADDED THE 30 MINUTES CLOSURE AFTER ALCOHOL SERVICE CEASES. THE OTHER CHANGE IN THESE COMMITMENTS THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY SUBMITTED TO YOU IS ITEM 6, WHERE I BELIEVE MR. NELSON QUESTIONED THE OWNER COMMITS TO NO ADDITIONAL OUTDOOR SPEAKERS. MAYBE IT WAS COUNCILOR GREEN.
AND THAT WORD HAS BEEN TAKING DOMINIC TAKEN OUT.
SO THERE ARE NO OUTDOOR SPEAKERS.
OTHERWISE, THE COMMITMENTS ARE AS THEY WERE APPROVED BY THE
PLAN COMMISSION. >> ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS? COUNCILOR AASEN, DO YOU HAVE ANY?
>> NOT AT THIS TIME. >> ALL RIGHT.
ANY CHANGES THAT YOU WANT TO RECOMMEND TO THE COMMITMENTS?
TO THE PETITIONER, IF THEY ARE WILLING TO SHORTEN THOSE HOURS? OTHERWISE, I WILL BE A NO VOTE PTONIGHT.
>> MR. POHL, DO YOU WANT TO ANSWER THAT?
OKAY. >> (INDISCERNIBLE) (AWAY FROM
MICROPHONE). >> AND UNDERSTAND, TOO, WE CAN VOTE ON THIS TONIGHT IF THE COMMITTEE CHOOSES.
CHANGES CAN STILL BE MADE AT THE NEXT COUNCIL MEETING.
SO I DON'T WANT YOU TO BE PRESSURED TO COMMIT TO SOMETHING IF IT IS GOING TO TAKE MORE TIME TO THINK ABOUT.
>> WELL, NO -- IT DOES. AND THANK YOU FOR THAT.
I CERTAINLY WANT TO DO SOMETHING THAT MAKES SENSE.
BUT IF YOU MOVE THE HOURS TO 11, WHAT WE JUST WALKED THROUGH IS, ESSENTIALLY, YOU ARE STOPPING SERVICE AT 10:30, 10:15. IF YOU MOVE IT FROM ONE TO 12, YOU WERE DOING IT AT 11:30 AND 1:15.
I'M NOT THE LAST STOP. (INDISCERNIBLE) AND SOCIAL CANTINA WILL BE. AND ALL I HAVE EVER MAINTAINED IS -- JUST -- LET ME HAVE COMPETITIVE HOURS.
AND I PROMISED NOT TO BE OPEN ANY LATER.
BUT TO COMMIT TO AN HOUR, HOUR AND AND A HALF EARLIER THAN THE PEOPLE ACROSS THE STREET. A FEW HOURS EARLIER, AND SOME OTHER PLACES, IS JUST REALLY, REALLY -- IT'S DIFFICULT.
ESPECIALLY GIVEN EVERY OTHER COMMITMENT AND COVENANT THAT WE PROMISED AND AGREED TO. IT'S TOUGH.
ANY FURTHER COMMENTS? QUESTIONS FROM COMMITTEE OR COUNSEL? COUNCILOR RIDER.
>> ONE THING WE JUST HAVE TO NAIL DOWN -- I DON'T HAVE A VOTE TONIGHT. SO ONE THING WE HAVE TO NAIL DOWN WHEN IT GETS BACK TO COUNSEL IS ENFORCEABILITY.
AND I DON'T KNOW IF WE CAN LEGALLY MAKE SOME AGREEMENT -- THREE STRIKES AND YOU ARE OUT, OR WHAT? BUT THERE HAS TO BE AN IN. YOU AND I TALKED QUITE A BIT.
I'VE BEEN THE GO-BETWEEN OF THIS WHOLE PROCESS.
IF, FOR OME REASON, THE COMMITMENTS WERE NOT BEING MET, THERE HAS TO BE AN END TO THE GAME.
DO YOU WANT TO COMMENT? >> SURE.
I WOULD ADD THAT ENFORCEMENT POWER -- THE CITY (INDISCERNIBLE). IF IT WAS A SERIOUS, RECURRING PROBLEM, IT CAN GET TO THAT POINT.
THE COURT HAS THE AUTHORITY TO ISSUE INJUNCTIONS PERMANENTLY, IF IT ROSE TO THAT LEVEL. OBVIOUSLY, IT WOULD BE UP TO THE JUDGE. BUT ULTIMATELY, IT COULD BE
POSSIBLE. >> NONE OF US WANT IT TO GET TO THAT POINT. BUT I HAVE TO KNOW WE ARE NOT LEFT HANGING. THAT'S IMPORTANT TO ME.
>> THIS IS A TECHNICALITY -- IS THERE ANYTHING IN WRITING THAT
[00:50:03]
THE COMMITMENTS FOLLOW THE LAND?>> YEAH. THE FIRST STATE STATUTE WILL BE RECORDED AND BONDED TO ALL SUCCESSORS.
>> THANK YOU. COUNCILOR GREEN?
>> ENFORCEABILITY IS AN ISSUE WE WOULD HAVE TO IRON OUT BEFORE IT GETS TO COUNSEL. YOU EXPLAIN THIS A LITTLE BIT EARLIER -- BUT I DIDN'T HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO ASK A FOLLOW-UP QUESTION. SO THERE IS A NOISE VIOLATION.
THEY ISSUE A CITATION. WE TALKED ABOUT THE ISSUE IF THEY ARE GOING TO THE CITY COURT.
ASSUMING, LET'S SAY IT GOES AND MOVES AS IT IS SUPPOSED TO AT THE CITY COURT -- IS THERE AN ESCALATION? AND ULTIMATELY, AND ENFORCEABLE INJUNCTION THAT CAN OCCUR IF THERE IS AN ESCALATION? OR IS A PURELY FINANCIAL?
BY GRANTINGA REZONING, YOU ARE ONLY GRANTING A PROPERTY RIGHT TO OPERATE THE BUSINESS AND MANNER.
IF YOU TAKE AWAY THE RIGHT, UF TO GO THROUGH JUDICIAL DUE
PROCESS. >> AND I'M ASKING YOU -- IS THERE ANY ALTERNATIVE PROCESS THAT WE CAN GO THROUGH IF THERE ARE ISSUES WITH THE CITY COURT? OR IF THE CITY MOVED TO FILE SOME TYPE OF INJUNCTION IF THERE WAS A CONSISTENT --?
>> CITY COURT DOESN'T HAVE JURISDICTION TO ISSUE INJUNCTIONS. THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE DONE
THROUGH HAMILTON. >> ANYTHING ELSE?
OKAY.OUNCILOR GREEN. >> I WILL GO AHEAD AND MAKE A MOTION. BUT I CAN ADAPT THIS MOTION.
IT'S IMPORTANT FOR TO GET TO THE CITY COUNCIL.
SO FOR NOW, I WILL MAKE A POSITIVERECOMMENDATION .
IF WE BASICALLY ADOPT -- AT LEAST, A COUPLE OF THE CHANGES, OR THE CHANGES THAT TOOK PLACE WITH THE REZONING APPLICATION COMMITMENTS THAT WERE PASSED OUT EARLIER -- AND I THINK AS FAR AS -- THERE WERE SEVERAL THAT WERE HIGHLIGHTED EARLIER.
FIRST OF ALL, NUMBER 5 COMMITMENT NUMBER 5, WHICH IS SIMILAR TO THE REZONED COMMITMENTS THAT JOHN HAD HANDED OUT. WHERE IT INCLUDES THE LANGUAGE THAT SAYS: FRIDAY NIGHTS AND HOLIDAYS AND CLOSE OF PHYSICAL FACILITY 30 MINUTES THEREAFTER. ADDITION TO NUMBER 6 -- THE OWNER COMMITS TO KNOW OUTDOOR SPEAKERS IN THE STRUCTURAL MODIFICATIONS, WHICH IS A CHANGE FROM THE ORIGINAL THAT WAS PASSED OUT. THIS IS NO ADDITIONAL OUTDOOR SPEAKERS. AND THEN, RECOMMEND ANOTHER CHANGE TO NUMBER 2, WHERE IT ADDRESSES THE PERGOLA PATIO, FOOD AND BAR SERVICES AT 10:00 -- 10 PM, DAILY.
OR THE SERVICE WOULD BE ENDED, REDUCING THAT TO 7 PM DAILY.
AND REMOVE OUTSIDE PATRONS FROM THE PREMISES BY 7:45.
REDUCE THAT AS THREE HOURS EARLIER AS WELL.
>> DID YOU GET ALL OF THAT, JOHN?
>> I DID! JUST TO CLARIFY, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THIS WAS PUT INTO PUBLIC RECORD. I DID GIVE A COPY OF THE DRAFT -- I GAVE THAT TO THE PETITIONER AS WELL.
JUST BECAUSE THIS HASN'T BEEN READ INTO THE RECORD.
THERE IS BEEN SOME CHANGES IN WORDING TO THE FIRST COMMITMENT.THERE AREN'T REALLY SUBSTANTIVE CHANGES.
IT'S MORE TO TIGHTEN UP THE LANGUAGE AS FAR AS WHAT THE APPROVAL PROCESS WILL GO THROUGH, WHEN THEY ARE GOING TO BE APPLYING FOR THE 80 LS APPLICATION.
THE PLAN COMMISSION REVIEW FOR THE ADDITION.ND IT ALSO JUST STATES THAT AT THE END, IT SAYS THE OWNERS NOT TO RESUME ANY BUSINESS OPERATIONS AT THE PROPERTY UNTIL THE EXPANSION HAS BEEN FULLY CONSTRUCTED AND THE CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY HAS BEEN ISSUED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF (INDISCERNIBLE).
>> OKAY. AND NUMBER 6, ON THE DRAFT THAT YOU GAVE US, SAID THAT THE OWNER COMMITS TO NO ADDITIONAL OUTDOOR SPEAKERS IN THE EXPANSION AND ANY EXISTING OUTDOOR SPEAKERS SHOULD BE TURNED OFF AT 9 PM.
BUT THE ONE IN THE PACKET SAYS THAT THE OWNER COMMITS TO KNOW OUTDOOR SPEAKERS? OKAY.
>> YEAH, THAT WAS MADE AFTER I DONE THESE.
>> SO POSITIVE RECOMMENDATION WITH THE LANGUAGE JOHN JUST SPOKE ABOUT. AND THEN, THE CHANGES TO 2, 5,
[00:55:01]
AND 6, ON THE ORIGINAL COMMITMENT.>> DO WE HAVE A SECOND? AND THEN, I WILL ASK FOR ADDITIONAL COMMENTS.JOHN, CAN I MAKE A SECOND AS CHAIR OF THE
COMMITTEE? >> IF YOU HAND OVER THE GAVEL.
>> OKAY. I WILL HANDED OVER TO YOU -- TEMPORARILY! [LAUGHTER] I'LL SECOND IT.
>> MR. CHAIRMAN -- I JUST WANT A CLARIFICATION.
OR, I WANT TO KNOW IF COUNCILOR GREEN WOULD EXCEPT, MAYBE, A MODIFICATION. SO WHAT I HEARD YOU SAY IS REGARDING THE PERGOLA, 7:00. WHAT I HEARD THE PETITION SAY IF IT DOESN'T WORK, WE WILL CHANGE IT.
IF IT DOESN'T WORK, COULD THAT BE ADDED TO YOUR RECOMMENDATION TO THE CITY COUNCIL? THAT THAT IS PART OF THE -- AND BY CHANGE IT, I THINK YOU MEANT PGOING AHEAD AND ADDING THE
>> SO IF YOU DON'T MIND. I'M NOT A MEMBER OF THE COMMITTEE, SO I CAN'T DO THIS, BUT --.
>> MR. CHAIR. TO ADD TO THAT, CAN THAT BE MADE A DECISION THAT COULD BE DONE ADMINISTRATIVELY? COULD THAT BE LEFT TO THE ADMINISTRATOR OF THE
DEPARTMENT? >> WELL, YOU CAN'T RECOMMEND HIM UNLESS COUNSEL DOES. COUNSEL IS THE ONLY BODY THAT
PCAN AMEND (INDISCERNIBLE). >> OKAY.
SO WHAT WOULD BE THE ENFORCEMENT OF IF THAT DOESN'T WORK, TO CLOSE IT IN? HOW WOULD THAT BE ENFORCED?
>> I THINK YOU WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK TO COUNSEL AND AMEND
THE COMMITMENT TO THAT. >> AND WE COULD DO THAT AFTER
REZONED IT? >> YOU CAN MODIFY COMMITMENTS,
YES. >> EVEN AFTER IT IS REZONED AND
OPERATING? >> I WILL DOUBLE CHECK ON THAT.
>> YEAH, IT SEEMS A LITTLE SKETCHY.
>> COUNCILOR GREEN, WOULD YOU LIKE TO AMEND YOUR --?
>> YES (LAUGHING). YES, I WOULD LIKE TO AMEND IT.
I AMEND THE MOTION I MADE TO NUMBER 2.
WHERE THE ORIGINAL HAD 10:00 210:45.
I ALREADY MOTIONED TO REDUCE IT FROM 10 TO 7, AND 10:452745, WITH THE CONDITION THAT IF THERE IS NONCOMPLIANCE, IT WILL BE TURNED INTO AN ENCLOSED AREA.
>> OKAY. I HAVE AN AMENDED MOTION.
DO I HAVE A SECOND? >> SECOND.
>> OKAY. SO ALL THOSE IN FAVOR.
WE HAVE TO GET THIS BACK TO CITY COUNCIL BY -- THE MEETING ON THE 21ST IS THE DATE THAT IF WE DON'T VOTE ON IT, IT JUST PASSES, CORRECTLY YOU HAVE TO GET IT OUT OF COMMITTEE AT SOME POINT IN TIME. OR I WILL PULL IT OUT OF
COMMITTEE AS PRESIDENT. >> YOU CAN VOTE TO MAKE NO RECOMMENDATION. THAT'S FINE TOO.
>> I WOULD SUPPORT THAT. >> OTHERWISE, I WILL PULL IT OUT OF COMMITTEE ON MONDAY. SO --.
>> I DON'T KNOW WHO HAS THE GAVEL WE.
>> WE TOOK THE VOTE, SO I CAN TAKE IT BACK!
[LAUGHTER] >> IF THE VOTE IS DONE -- IF WE THINK THAT WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO ADDRESS THE PERGOLA WITH THE SEVEN, AND IF THAT DOESN'T WORK, THE PERMANENT WINDOWS? I DON'T KNOW -- WHAT WOULD PRECLUDE US FROM MAYBE HAVING SOME SIMILAR LANGUAGE AROUND THE HOURS? THAT WOULD PULL THOSE BACK IF WE FELT IT WASN'T WORKING THE
WAY WE THOUGHT IT SHOULD. >> MADAM CHAIR?>> COUNCILOR
RIDER? >> CITY ATTORNEY, IF WE -- BECAUSE I STILL THINK IT'S SKETCHY TO COME BACK AND CHANGE YOUR COMMITMENT AFTER BUSINESS IS OPERATING.
IN THE COMMITMENT, CAN THEY COMMIT -- KNOWING THAT IT WOULD
[01:00:01]
COME BACK TO COUNSEL TO CHANGE IT, BUT THAT BE SOMETHING TOPUT INTO THE COMMITMENTS? >> POSSIBLY.
>> BECAUSE THAT MIGHT GET US PAST A FEW ANGST OF SOME
>> MADAM CHAIR, I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE SEND THIS BACK TO THE CITY COUNCIL WITHOUT A RECOMMENDATION --
WITH NO RECOMMENDATION. >> SECOND.
>> ALL RIGHT. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION?
>> MADAME PRESIDENT -- SORRY, MADAM CHAIR.
THANK YOU.SO I WILL VOTE TO SEND THIS WITH NO RECOMMENDATION. BUT I JUST WANT TO SAY SOMETHING DESK BETWEEN NOW AND MONDAY.
I'VE HEARD SOME COMMENTS ABOUT THIS BEING A NOISE ISSUE.
I THINK IT CERTAINLY IS. I THINK THAT IS ONE OF THE ISSUES WE ARE DEALING WITH. WE ARE ALSO DEALING WITH ISSUES POF UBER THAT WE STILL HAVEN'T RESOLVED.
AND THE ISSUE THAT I -- THE ONE THAT BOTHERED ME THE MOST WAS THE ISSUE OF TRESPASSING ON OTHER PROPERTIES.
I THINK THE HOURS WOULD BE THE ONLY SOLUTION TO THAT -- IS IF YOU HAD A DIFFERENT CLIENTELE, THEN MAYBE YOU MIGHT HAVE LESS THAN THAT 'M STRUGGLING TO SEE THIS AS THE SAME BUSINESS WITH THE SAME CLIENTELE AS BEFORE BUT JUST ENCLOSED.
THAT IS A POSITIVE STEP, BUT IT DOESN'T GET US ALL THE WAY.
SO WITH THAT, I WILL VOTE YES TO KEEP THIS MOVING IN THE PROCESS. IF WE DON'T DO ANYTHING, (INDISCERNIBLE) GOES INTO EFFECT.
WE DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN. SO WE WILL MOVE THIS FOR MONDAY. BUT I STILL HAVE THOSE CONCERNS THAT WILL CARRY ON UNTIL MONDAY.
>> OKAY. BUT I CALLED FOR THE VOTE.
AND YOU ARE A? >> J TO MOVE IT TO COUNSEL WITH
NO RECOMMENDATION. >> SO THIS GOES BACK WITH NO RECOMMENDATION TO THE COUNCIL ON MONDAY'S MEETING.
SO WE HAVE SOME STUFF TO WORK ON.
HOPEFULLY, WE WILL GET ALL OF THIS WORKED OUT BEFORE MONDAY.
I WANT TO THANK THE COMMITTEE AND COUNCIL FOR THEIR TIME.
WE HAVE NO
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.