[A. Call to Order ]
[00:00:05]
>> ALL RIGHT. I'M GOING TO CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER. WE WILL START WITH THE PLEDGE.
PRESIDENT DIERCKMAN. >> WE ARE ALL HERE.
[D. Declaration of Quorum ]
[E. Approval of Minutes and Findings of Facts of Previous Meetings ]
WE HAVE A QUORUM. DO WE HAVE ANY MINUTES, ANY FINDINGS OF FACT FROM THE PREVIOUS MEETINGS? WE HAVE THOSE. LEGAL COUNSEL, YOU WANT TO MAKEA MENTION OF THAT? >> YES, MR. PRESIDENT.
THERE IS ONE ADOPTION OF FINDINGS OF FACT FOR PREVIOUS, FOR A PREVIOUS ITEM. IT INCLUDES BOTH THE USE VARIANCE AND DEVELOPMENTAL STANDARD VARIANCES, WHICH DENIAL OF A USE VARIANCE MADE THE STANDARD VARIANCE REQUEST MOOT.
>> ALL RIGHT. ANY COMMENTS, CONCERNS? ANYTHING ELSE? ON ANY OF THIS? HEARING NONE, HOW ABOUT A MOTION?
>> A MOTION TO ADOPT THE FINDING OF FACTS FOR DOCKET
PZ-22-00192UV. >> HOW ABOUT THE MINUTES.
AT IS TAME TIME, IF YOU DON'T MIND.
>> I WILL ALSO MOTION TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES.
>> ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE A MOTION.
>> SECOND. >> WE HAVE A SECOND.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, STATE AYE. AYE.
HEARING NO ONE OPPOSED, MOTION CARRIES.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH. COMMUNICATION, BILLS, AND EXPENDITURES? ANYONE?
>> ALL RIGHT. REPORTS, ANNOUNCEMENTS, LEGAL COUNSEL REPORT AND DEPARTMENT CONCERNS.
[H. (SUA, V) Carmel High School Activity Center and South Support Building. ]
>> NOTHING, MR. PRESIDENT. >> VERY GOOD.
TONIGHT WE HAVE FOUR MEMBERS. SO TO REMIND EVERYBODY, IT TAKES THREE TO APPROVE ANYTHING. IF IT IS A 2-2 TIE, IT FALLS TO THE NEXT MEETING. HAVING SAID THAT, WE WILL READ THIS MONSTER IN. SUAE.
THE APPLICANT SEEKS THE FOLLOWING SPECIAL USE AMENDMENT AND DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS VARIANCE: EDUCATIONAL SPECIAL USE, EXPANSION REQUESTED, DOCKET NUMBER PZ203300073.
62% REQUESTED. DOCKET PZ20330008VO.
35-MINUTE BUILDING HEIGHT FOR PRINCIPAL BUILDING AND 18 FEET HEIGHT FOR ACCESSORY BUILDING. ALLOWED FOR 38 FEET, THREE INCHES AND 28 FEET AND SIX INCHES REQUESTED.
DOCKET NUMBER PZ2023U0009 HAVE. MINIMUM 30-FOOT SETBACK FROM KEYSTONE PARKWAY ALLOWED. 19 FEET, FOUR INCHES REQUESTED.
DOCKET NUMBER PZ2300 23S 01 010VUDO.
MINIMUM 30-FEET WIDE GREEN BELT REQUIRED ALONG KEYSTONE PARKWAY.
19 FEET, FOUR INCHES REQUESTED. 200 SQUARE-FOOT BUILDING, SUPPORT BUILDING, WALL SIGN ALLOWED.
BASED ON THE PANEL AREA. 296 SQUARE FEET REQUESTED.
SIGN LOCATED ABOVE ON SUPPORT BUILDING.
NOT IN PANEL AREA REQUESTED. THE PROJECT CONSISTS OF TWO BUILDINGS ADDITIONS. THE SOUTH SUPPORT BUILDING.
THE SITE LOCATED AT 2450 EAST SMOKY ROAD, THE CARMEL HIGH SCHOOL STADIUM SITE. OVERLAY FILED BY APP AMBER SHELLER ON BEHALF OF CARMEL CLAY SCHOOLS.
PETITIONER, YOU HAVE 15 MINUTES OR LESS.
WHATEVER YOU NEED. >> GOOD EVENING.
I'M BILL PAYNE. I RESIDE AT 4939 TUDOR PLACE, CARMEL, INDIANA. ARCHITECTS AND ENGINEERS
[00:05:02]
REPRESENTING CARMEL CLAY SCHOOLS THIS EVENING.ON THE SIX VARIANCE REQUESTS AND ONE SPECIAL USE REQUEST.
BEFORE YOU ARE THE PRESENTATION AND THE RENDERS ON THE TOP.
THE SOUTH SUPPORT BUILDING. IT IS CALLED THAT BECAUSE IT IS LOCATED AT THE SOUTH END OF THE STADIUM.
BELOW THAT IS THE GREYHOUND ACTIVITIES CENTER WHICH IS LOCATED NORTH OF THE STADIUM. AND WITH THAT, I'LL PROCEED INTO A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL. THIS IS A CURRENT AERIAL OF THE CAMPUS SITE WHICH IS LOCATED NORTH OF SMOKY ROW AND WEST OF KEYSTONE PARKWAY. YOU WILL SEE TWO RED BOXES TO THE NORTH OF THE STADIUM. THAT IS THE PROPOSED GREYHOUND ACTIVITIES CENTER. IT IS-- ITS USE WILL BE INDOOR PRACTICE FACILITY. A CLEAR STRUCTURE APPROXIMATELY THE SAME SIZE AS THE FOOTBALL FIELD WHICH IT PRESENTLY-- IT IS PROPOSED TO SIT ON TOP OF AND IS DUE NORTH OF THE STADIUM.
IN ADDITION TO PRACTICE FACILITIES FOR BOTH BAND, MUSIC, AND PHYSICAL ACTIVITIES, ATHLETICS, IT COULD BE USED AS AN AREA OF REFUGE DURING INCLEMENT WEATHER.
PREDOMINANTLY PRECIPITATION. FOR FOOTBALL STADIUM AND OTHER ACTIVITIES. TO THE SOUTH OF THE STADIUM, NESTLED BETWEEN THE TRACK AND THE SOUTH PARKING LOT IS THE SOUTH SUPPORT BUILDING. THIS BUILDING IS LOCATED TO ACCOMMODATE AUXILIARY LOCKER ROOMS, CONCESSIONS, ACCESSIBLE REST ROOM FACILITIES. AS WELL AS SOME OTHER ADMINISTRATIVE FUNCTIONS. AND WILL EFFECTIVELY ACT AS THE VISIBLE ENTRANCE TO THE FOOTBALL STADIUM FROM THE SOUTH SIDE.
ALTHOUGH HOME-SIDE VISITORS WILL STILL ACCESS THE STADIUM FROM THE WEST. VISITORS FROM THE EAST.
I WILL NOT REPEAT ALL OF THESE. WE WILL GO IN ORDER OF-- AS WAS READ BY PRESIDENT DIERCKMAN. THE FIRST IS A SPECIAL USE AMENDMENT, OF COURSE. THE GREYHOUND ACTIVITIES CENTER AND THE SUPPORT BUILDING. TOTAL, APPROXIMATELY, 1,393-- 100393 SQUARE FEET. WE ARE ASKING CONSIDERATION FOR THE SPECIAL USE AMENDMENT FOR NEW SQUARE FOOTAGE TO EXCEED 10% OF THE EXISTING SQUARE FOOTAGE. THESE AREAS ARE ALREADY HEAVILY IN USE. BOTH AS OUTDOOR PLAZA AREA TO SOUTH FOR SPECTATORS AND PATRONS AS WELL ARE AS TO THE NORTH FOR PHYSICAL ACTIVITIES SUCH AS PRACTICE AND SO FORTH.
SO THESE BUILDINGS WILL SUPPORT THE SAME AND MORE FUNCTIONS.
I DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU WOULD LIKE TO LISTEN TO ALL OF THEM AND THEN INDIVIDUALLY. THAT IS YOUR DISCRETION.
(INAUDIBLE). >> I KNOW EVERYBODY UP HERE READ
THANK YOU. >> YOU CAN MOVE FORWARD WITH
THAT UNDERSTANDING. >> THANK YOU.
>> YUP. >> WITH THE REPEAT OF THE AERIAL SHOWING THE TWO LOCATIONS, A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL.
THE CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENT. IT SHOWS, AGAIN, THE FOOTPRINT OF THE GREYHOUND ACTIVITY CENTER NORTH OF THE STADIUM AND THEN THE SOUTH SUPPORT BUILDING TO THE SOUTH OF THE STADIUM.
OUR FIRST DEVELOPMENTAL STANDARDS VARIANCE, THE INTERNAL FUNCTIONS, NOT SURPRISINGLY, BECAUSE OF PHYSICAL ACTIVITIES.
THIS HAS HAPPENED AT EVERY ONE OF OUR SCHOOLS FROM CARMEL, MIDDLE SCHOOLS AND HIGH SCHOOLS. TYPICALLY, WE HAVE A 35-FOOT CLEAR HEIGHT REQUIREMENT. WHICH IN TURN, REQUIRES THAT OUR BUILDING HEIGHT EXCEED 35 FEET. THIS IS A VARIANCE THAT YOU ALL HAVE HEARD MULTIPLE TIMES ON MULTIPLE SCHOOL PROJECTS.
THIS IS AN ELEVATION THAT ILLUSTRATES THE OVERALL HEIGHT OF THE BUILDING. SECOND DEVELOPMENTAL STANDARDS IS A MINIMUM OF 30-FOOT BUILDING SETBACK FROM KEYSTONE PARKWAY IS ALLOWED. WE ARE ASKING FOR A REDUCTION TO 19 FOOT 4. THIS IS A SITE PLAN OF THE ACTIVITIES CENTER, LOCATED ADJACENT TO ONE OF THE SOCCER PRACTICE FIELDS. THEN TO THE EAST, NEXT TO KEYSTONE, A CORNER OF THE BUILDING.
YOU CAN SEE THERE IN THE RIGHT-HAND CORNER.
THE YARD SETBACK THAT IS REQUIRED.
WE ARE ENCROACHING UPON THAT AND REQUEST THAT THAT BE REDUCED TO 19 FOOT FOUR INCHES. WE ARE ALSO ASKING FOR A REDUCTION IN A 30-FOOT GREEN BELT WHICH IS REQUIRED ALONG KEYSTONE. AGAIN, THE SAME REPRESENTATION.
WE ARE PROVIDING THE SAME AMOUNT OF LANDSCAPING MATERIAL THAT IS REQUIRED AT THE GREEN BELT. WE ARE DISTRIBUTING IT DIFFERENTLY. TO ALLOW THAT ONE CORNER OF THE BUILDING TO EXTEND INTO THAT 30-FOOT SIDE YARD SETBACK IN GREEN BELT. NUMBER 11, THE VARIANCE WAS WITHDRAWN BUT IT WAS REFERENCED. NUMBER 12, A SIGN ON THE SOUTH SUPPORT BUILDING OF 300 SQUARE FEET.
[00:10:02]
OUR SIGN IS 296 SQUARE FEET OR WAS WHEN WE INITIALLY SUBMITTED.THROUGH OUR DUAL DILIGENCE, WE HAVE RESIZED THE SIGN TO 271 SQUARE FEET. I SUBMITTED THAT TO MRS. CONN TODAY. WE BELIEVE THAT NOW MEETS THE ORDINANCE AND THIS VARIANCE IS NO LONGER REQUIRED.
THEN FINALLY, WE ARE ASKING THAT THE SIGN, THAT SAME SIGN BE LOCATED ON THE SOUTH SUPPORT BUILDING.
AS I MENTIONED, THIS SOUTH SUPPORT BUILDING EFFECTIVE IT WILL IS THE ENTRANCE TO THE STADIUM.
THERE IS NO STADIUM SIGNAGE, PER SE, EXCEPT ON THE PRESS BOX, FACING THE FOOTBALL FIELD THAT SAYS CARMEL HIGH.
CARMEL HIGH SCHOOL. IT IS SOMEWHAT VISIBLE FROM KEYSTONE. IF YOU LOOK QUICKLY AND THEN BACK. AS YOU ARE DRIVING ALONG.
THERE IS NO SIGNAGE REALLY. THIS BUILDING AS WELL AS THE GRAY HOWN THAT WE ARE ILLUSTRATING HERE IS EFFECTIVELY A SIGN FOR THE OVERALL STADIUM. WE INITIALLY SUBMITTED THIS, HOPING IT WOULD BE CONSIDERED AS ARTWORK.
IT IS LEGITIMATELY A SIGN. WE STIPULATE TO THAT AS STAFF IS ADVISED. WE BELIEVE IT IS OF A NATURE AND AN IMPORTANCE THAT ALLOWING IT TO EXTEND ABOVE $BIB THE WAY, THAT CURVE IS CAREFULLY CONCEALING A ROOFTOP MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT VIEW FROM THE STREET AND THE STADIUM.
WE THINK THIS IS AN APPROPRIATE WAY TO ADDRESS THE ENTRANCE TO CARMEL STADIUM. AND THAT COMPLETES MY COMMENTS.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ARE THERE ANY SUPPORTERS? SEEING NONE, MOVE ON. REMONSTRAY OR THES? SEEING NONE, ADMINISTRATION DEPARTMENT REPORT?
>> HANK YOU. THE PETITIONER HAS OR IS GOING THROUGH THE TECHNICAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE REVIEW PROCESS FOR THE TECHNICAL ASPECTS OF THIS PROMPT.
AND THEY WILL BE WRAPPING THOSE UP WITHIN PROJECT DOCS, OUR ELECTRIC-- ELECTRONIC REVIEW SOFTWARE.
THE NORTH-FACING WALL SIGN IS ONE THING TO CONSIDER.
IF YOU COULD PLEASE PULL THAT UP.
>> YES. >> IT IS AN ALLOWED SIGN, BUT KNOWING THAT THERE ARE RESIDENTS THAT LIVE JUST NORTH AND ADJACENT TO THAT AREA, PLANNING STAFF WAS HOPING THE PETITIONER COULD PERHAPS COMMIT TO TURNING OFF THE SIGN AT A CERTAIN TIME EVERY NIGHT. JUST TO AVOID THAT LIGHT POLLUTION. IT IS A HALO-LIT SIGN.
IT WON'T BE TOO BRIGHT. STILL JUST THAT LIGHT POLLUTION WILL STILL BE THERE. THAT IS ONE THING WE WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS FURTHER. REGARDING THE REST OF THE VARIANCES, WE ARE SUPPORTIVE OF ALL OF THE VARIANCES EXCEPT FOR THE WALL SIGN LOCATION VARIANCE FOR THE SOUTH SUPPORT BUILDING.
PLANNING STAFF THINKS TH THERE S NO HARDSHIP.
THIS WALL SIGN CAN BE PULLED DOWN.
WE WOULD LIKE THE VARIANCES APPROVED WITH THE CONDITION OF ADDRESSING THE REMAINING COMMENTS AND THEN ALSO ADOPTING THE FINDINGS OF FACT. THANK YOU.
>> ASK ONE QUESTION. ON THE NORTH SIDE, YOU DON'T
WANT THEM TO HAVE A SIGN AT ALL. >> IT IS AN ALLOWED SIGN.
WE FEEL THAT WITH THEM REQUESTING SO MANY VARIANCES, MAYBE THE BOARD HAS LEVERAGE TO AMEND THAT SIGN.
>> ON THE OUTSIDE, YOU WANT IT TO BE DROPPED DOWN?
>> CORRECT. WHERE IT HAS THE CURVED WALL PARAPIT. WE DON'T THINK IT IS A HARDSHIP
WITH MEETING THE SIGN ORDINANCE. >> ALL RIGHT.
ANYTHING ELSE? >> THAT IS ALL.
DISCUSSION? >> SO I THOUGHT THE SIGN ON THE SOUTH, I THOUGHT THAT WAS AN INTERESTING ARGUMENT THAT IT'S ART. THAT IS WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE TO ME, AND I LIKE IT. WHAT MAKES A SIGN A SIGN? WHAT MAKES EVGUENIA ARTAMONOVA? UNDER THE ORDINANCE?
>> I GUESS TO PUT IT PLAINLY, A SIGN IDENTIFIES SOMETHING.
IT CAN BE TEXT OR IT CAN BE A LOGO.
GREYHOUND LOGO IS THE OFFICIAL LOGO FOR THE CARMEL GREYHOUNDS.
ART IS MORE, I WOULD SAY, MAYBE A PAINTED MURAL OR SOMETHING
MORE ABSTRACT. >> THIS ONE IS ON THE NORTH
>> THAT IS CORRECT. >> I BROUGHT THAT BACK UP BECAUSE MRS. CONN WAS NOTING THIS WOULD BE BOTH ON THE NORTH ELEVATION AS WELL AS SOUTH ELEVATION.
I BROUGHT THE SOUTH ELEVATION TO THE GREYHOUND ACTIVITIES CENTER.
THAT IS ON THE SOUTH SUPPORT BUILDING.
WHICH IS THIS ONE HERE. AND THAT IS THE ONE THAT RIDES ABOVE-- PROPOSING TO RIDE ABOVE THE PARAPIT.
>> AND THAT SITS BEHIND THE FOOTBALL STADIUM.
THIS ONE SITS IN FRONT OF THE FOOTBALL STADIUM FACING SMOKY
GO AHEAD, ALAN. BOSTON BILL, I HATE TO BEAT T
[00:15:04]
THIS, BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT ITEM NUMBER 7 ON YOUR REQUEST, THAT IS THE NORTH SIDE.IN OTHER WORDS, IS THAT THE NORTH SIDE IN.
>> SORRY. THERE ARE SEVERAL SIGNS WE ARE
>> THE SIGNS THAT ARE NOT PART OF THE VARIANCE ARE THE ONES LOCATED ON THE GREYHOUND ACTIVITY CENTER WHICH IS NORTH OF THE STADIUM, AND THERE IS ONE ON-- THIS IS THE FACADE.
FACING SOUTH. LOOKING AT THE STADIUM.
AND THEN ON THE SIDE, IT IS VERY SIMILAR TO THAT.
AND AS MRS. CONN NOTED, THESE WOULD BE HALO-TYPE SIGNS.
AROUND THIS ONE, THE REQUEST WAS STAFF REQUESTED THE RECOMMENDATION, A CONSIDERATION THAT THE SIGN TO THE NORTH BE TURNED OFF. BECAUSE IT DOES FACE RESIDENTIAL AREAS. THE ANSWER TO THAT WOULD BE YES.
THE CARMEL-CLAY SCHOOLS WOULD CERTAINLY AGREE TO THAT TIME FRAME. THE OTHER SIGN WHICH IS INVOLVED IN TWO VARIANCE REQUESTS IS THIS ONE WHICH IS LOCATED ON THE SOUTH FACADE OR SOUTH SUPPORT BUILDING.
SOUTH OF THE STADIUM. THIS IS THE ONE WHERE WE RECALCULATED THE SIZE OF THE SIGN AT 271 SQUARE FEET WHICH MEETS THE ORDINANCE. THAT IS REQUEST NUMBER 7.
SO WE ARE ASKING THAT THAT VARIANCE BE WITHDRAWN EFFECTIVELY BECAUSE THE SIGN MEETS THE SIZE CRITERIA.
SO THE REMAINING VARIANCE 8 IS THE ONE WHERE THE SIGN RISES ABOVE THE PIT. AS SHOWN.
>> OKAY. WHAT ANDREW WAS REFERRING TO RELATIVE TO DIMMING DOWN AT NIGHT IN ORDER TO BE CONSIDERATE OF NEIGHBORS, THAT WOULD BE NUMBER 7?
>> YOU SAID IT MET THE-- >> THAT WAS JUST STAFF COMMENTS
TO BE CONSIDERED. >> I GOTCHA.
>> WHICH WE AGREED TO. >> OKAY.
JUST TO CLARIFY, I KIND OF LIKE THE ABOVE THE PARAPIT ALSO.
I JUST WANT TO MENTION THAT. I KIND OF GET THE CONCEPT AND THE IDEA OF THAT. TO CLARIFY AND I DON'T MEAN TO BELABOR NUMBER 7 HERE, BUT NUMBER 7, YOU SAID IT IS 271 SQUARE FEET. IT WAS 296 ORIGINALLY.
BUT IT IS 200 SQUARE FEET ALLOWED? COULD THE DEPARTMENT CLARIFY THOSE NUMBERS FOR ME?
>> SURE. BASICALLY, IT IS ALL BASED ON THE IMAGINARY RECTANGLE BOX THAT YOU CAN DRAW.
WHICH WOULD-- IF YOU SEE THE TOP ELEVATION, IT SHOWS KIND OF THE DASH LINE, AND THEN IT HAS TO BE A CERTAIN PERCENT OF THAT WIDTH AND HEIGHT. THAT IS WHAT THE SIGN CAN BE.
THERE IS NOT A SET NUMBER. THERE IS A MAXIMUM 300 SQUARE-FOOT CAP. IT IS ALWAYS DETERMINED BY THAT.
>> MY QUESTION IS, IT SAYS 200 SQUARE-FOOT SUPPORT SIGN ALLOWED. THEY ARE SAYING IT IS 271.
THEY DON'T NEED THIS VARIANCE. >> RIGHT.
THEY HAVE AMENDED WHAT THEIR PANEL AREA IS.
THAT CHANGES WHAT THE ALLOWED SIGN CAN BE.
THANK YOU. >> SO WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TO AFD ADD, LIKE, A SIGN BELOW THE GREYHOUND THERE THAT SAYS, LIKE, IT IS-- A SIGN THAT CHANGES COUNT AND THEN STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS AFTER THAT. BECAUSE THEN WE COULD JUST-- WHENEVER WE GET ANOTHER ONE, WE COULD AUTOMATICALLY CHANGE IT.
WOULD THAT BE POSSIBLE? COULD YOU GIVE THAT
BRING THAT BACK TO STAFF. >> WELL, WE WILL INCREASE THE VARIANCE AREA SO YOU CAN ADD THAT WITHOUT ANY PROBLEMS.
IT IS FANTASTIC. I UNDERSTAND WHY.
FOR THE LIGHTING ON THE SOUTH SIDE, HOW ABOUT 10:00 P.M.? I THINK MOST FOOTBALL GAMES ARE PRETTY MUCH OVER BY THAT TIME.
HOWEVER, THE TEAM THAT IS LEAVING WOULD BE ABLE TO SAY, HOW ABOUT $11:00? WOULD EVERYBODY BE ALL RIGHT WITH 11:00 P.M. AND THEN 6:00 A.M. THEY COME BACK ON?
>> IT IS IMPORTANT THAT THE TEAM THAT IS LEAVING KNOWS WHERE THEY ARE LEAVING. WE WANT THAT LIGHT ON AT LEAST
UNTIL 11:00. >> YOU ARE A CARMEL GRAD, RIGHT?
>> I SHOULDN'T SAY THAT, I GUESS.
>> JEEZ. >> I THOUGHT WE WERE TALKING ON THE NORTH SIDE. WE ARE TALKING THE NORTH BUILDING, AND THE NORTH SIDE. NOT THE SOUTH SIDE GOING OFF.
>> SO IT WOULD BE 11:00 P.M. THEY GO OFF.
THEY COME BACK ON AT 6:00 A.M. OR WHATEVER.
DOES ANYBODY WANT TO MAKE A MOTION?
>> YES. I'LL GO ON AND MAKE A MOTION TO ADOPT OR APPROVE DOCKET NUMBER PZ20223-00006SUA.
[00:20:03]
DOCKET NUMBER PZ202 # 3R3-0007B THROUGH PZ2023-0001OV AND THEN DETECTIVES TO NUMBER PZ2023-0012V AND DOCKET NUMBER PZ2023-00013V WITH CONTINUED COMPLIANCE WITH COMMENTS, THE FINDING OF FACTS THAT THE PETITIONER SUBMITTED AND THAT THE SIDE LIGHTS TURN OFF AT 11:00 P.M. AND CAN COME BACK ON>> SECOND. >> WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, STATE AYE.
>> AYE. >> ANYONE OPPOSED? HEARING NONE, MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
[H. (V) DavAni BBQ Food Truck Variances. ]
BARBECUE FOOD TRUCK VARIANCE. THE APPLICANT SEEKS THE FOLLOWING VARIANCE APPROVALS. FOOD STANDS SHALL BE REMOVED FROM THE PREMISES WHEN NOT IN OPERATION.REQUEST TO BE-- TO KEEP ON SITE OVERNIGHT.
PZ2023-0037V. CUSTOMER SEATING AREA, AREAS ASSOCIATED WITH FOOD STAND SHALL BE PROHIBITED.
THE SITE LOCATED AT 105 WEST CARMEL DRIVE.
ZONED I-1, INDUSTRIAL, RANGE LINE ROAD.
ANDREW WERT OF CHURCH CHURCH HITTLE AND ANTRUM ON BEHALF OF ARMEN ABRAHAMAN,-- ARMEN ABRAHAMYAN, FOOD TRUCK OWNER.
>> GOOD EVENING, MR. CHAIRMAN. MEMBERS OF THE BOARD F FOR THE RECORD. MY NAME IS ANDREW WERT.
WITH ME IN THE AUDIENCE TONIGHT IS ARMEN ABRAHAMYAN, PROPRIER THE OF DAVANI BARBECUE. THIS IS THE FIRST ARMENIAN RESTAURANT IN THE STATE OF INDIANA.
THEY ARE CURRENTLY OPERATING A FOOD STAND AT 105 WEST CARMEL DRIVE ON A TEMPORARY USE PERMIT, PENDING TWO VARIANCES WE ARE SEEKING HELP WITH TONIGHT. THOSE VARIANCES, AS YOU ARE-- AS YOUR AGENDA INDICATES ARE TO ALLOW THE FOOD STAND TO REMAIN ON THE PREMISES WHEN NOT IN OPERATION.
AND TO ALLOW CUSTOMER SEATING ASSOCIATED WITH THE FOOD STAND.
WE BELIEVE THE PARTICULAR SITE IS UNIQUE AND WELL-SUITED TO BOTH OF THESE VARIANCE REQUESTS. WE CO-EXIST ON THIS PROPERTY WITH ANOTHER BUSINESS. VERY LITTLE TRAFFIC WITH THIS BUSINESS. OUR LEASE ALLOW IT IS FOOD STAND TO REMAIN AT THIS LOCATION. CUSTOMERS CAN UTILIZE THE FRONT PARKING LOT. THERE IS ALSO AN EXISTING PATIO TO THE WEST OF THE BUILDING THAT IS IDEAL FOR CUSTOMER SEATING.
WHAT MAKES THIS A LITTLE BIT MORE PALATABLE THAN JUST A FOOD TRUCK AND PARKING LOT IS THAT IT DOES SIT BEHIND AN EXISTING BRICK WALL SITUATED ALONG CARMEL DRIVE.
THAT HELPS TO SOFTEN THE APPEARANCE A LITTLE BIT.
THAT IS RATHER LARGE VEHICLE, BUT ALSO HOPEFULLY, IT IS VERY ATTRACTIVE VEHICLE. THAT BEING SAID, MOVING THIS TRUCK EVERY NIGHT AT CLOSING IS A BIT OF AN ORDEAL.
WE ARE CONNECTED TO THE PUBLIC WATER SYSTEM, AND UNPLUGGING THAT, PARTICULARLY IN THE COLDER MONTHS WOULD REQUIRE US TO WINTERIZE THE VEHICLE EVERY NIGHT.
BUSINESS HOURS ARE TUESDAY THROUGH SATURDAY.
11:00 A.M. TO 7:30 P.M. WE HAVE COMMITTED TO A TIME LIMIT ON THIS. NOT JUST THE VARIANCES BUT THE TEMPORARY USE FOR THE FOOD STAND.
TWO YEARS FROM THE DATE OF THE VARIANCE APPROVAL WAS OUR ORIGINAL REQUEST. STAFF HAS RECOMMENDED 18 MONTHS.
AND WE ARE OKAY WITH THAT. WE HAVE TAKEN SOME TIME TO GET THIS PETITION IN FRONT OF THIS BOARD.
I BELIEVE THAT WAS A BIG FACTOR IN STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION.
OUR BUSINESS PLAN HAS THIS BE BEING-- I'M SORRY.
BEING BROUGHT TO-- BASICALLY, INTRODUCING ARMENIAN CUISINE TO BUILD UP A CUSTOMER BASE. THEN OPEN A PERMANENT RESTAURANT. THE FOOD, IF YOU HAVE NOT HAD A
[00:25:01]
CHANCE TO VISIT, I WOULD HIGHLY RECOMMEND IT.FRESH INGREDIENTS COOKED OVER AN OPEN GRILL.
INSIDE THE FOOD STAND IS IMMACULATEFYST CLEAN.
IT HAS GOTTEN SOME AMAZING REVIEWS SO FAR.
WE DO LIKE THIS LOCATION. IT IS VERY WALKABLE.
VERY PEDESTRIAN-FRIENDLY. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND ATTENTION. I WOULD BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE.
>> THANK YOU. ANYUN HERE FAVORABLE?
THE STAFF REPORT WAS RELEASED FIVE DAYS AGO, AND WITHIN IT IS A HISTORY OF THE SERIES OF EVENTS THAT HAS LED THE PETITIONER HERE THIS EVENING. THE PETITIONER DOES HAVE A TEMPORARY USE PERMIT FOR THE FOOD STAND THAT WAS ISSUED BACK IN SEPTEMBER. IT WAS ISSUED WITH THE CONDITION THAT THE STRUCTURE BE MOVED EVERY NIGHT, AND THAT HAS NOT BEEN DONE. SO IT HAS TAKEN SOME TIME TO GET THE PETITIONER BEFORE YOU THIS EVENING.
FORTUNATELY, THEY ARE FINALLY HERE BEFORE YOU.
PLANNING STAFF DOES STILL NEED TO SEE DETAILS ON WHAT THE OUTDOOR CUSTOMER SEATING AREA WILL LOOK LIKE, AND WE WOULD ALSO LIKE THE SMALLER INCIDENTAL SIGNS ON THE FOOD TRUCK TO BE TAKEN OFF AS THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BE ON THERE.
THAT ONE SIGN THAT IS FACING CARMEL DRIVE, THAT IS ALLOWED.
WE DO RECOMMEND CONSIDERATION OF THESE VARIANCES WITH THE CONDITION OF THE 18-MONTH TIME LIMIT, PROVIDING PHOTOGRAPHIC EXAMPLES OF WHAT THE OUTDOOR SEATING AREA FURNITURE WILL LOOK LIKE, AND THE PETITIONER REMOVING THE SMALLER AFFIXED SIGNAGE OFF OF THE FOOD TRUCK. THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. DISCUSSION?
ANGIE, I'M GOING TO HAVE TO ASK YOU, EITHER DIRECTED TO YOU-- I DON'T MEAN TO TALK DOWN. IT MAY BE MORE OF A LEGAL POINT, SO YOU JUST LET ME KNOW. WHEN DOES A FOOD TRUCK BECOME A FULL-SERVICE RESTAURANT AND THEN COME THROUGH HERE IN TO US, SAYING THAT IT IS A FOOD TRUCK OR IT IS A STAND? BECAUSE ON THEIR WEBSITE, THEY ADVERTISE IT AS A RESTAURANT.
IF IT IS A RESTAURANT, THIS IS-- THEN WHY NOT GO INTO A PLACE AND HAVE A RESTAURANT? NOT HAVE A STAND-- DO THEY HAVE REST ROOMS IN THERE? PUBLIC REST ROOMS FOR THE PUBLIC? I MEAN, I DON'T GET IT.
THIS, TO ME, I'M TRYING TO BE CONSISTENT HERE BECAUSE THE S SNOW-- THE TROPICAL SNOW PLACE ON CARMEL DRIVE HAD A-- I HAD A REAL ISSUE WITH THAT. THE AESTHETICS WITH THIS.
I KNOW THIS IS AN INDUSTRIAL AREA.
BUT STILL WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A RESTAURANT HERE.
AND NOT-- IF THE CHINESE CARRY-OUT THAT I FREQUENT A LOT IS IN A SHOPPING AREA, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THIS IS ANY DIFFERENT THAN THAT. WHY WE ARE, YOU KNOW, GOING TO START ALLOWING TO HAVE SHACKS AND TRUCKS AND STUFF LIKE THAT THAT ARE ACTUAL RESTAURANTS PASSING THROUGH AS SOMETHING
I THINK THOSE ARE VALID QUESTIONS.
I WOULD DEFER TO SERGEY TO ANSWER MOST OF THEM.
YEAH. THE FOOD TRUCK FOOD STAND ITSELF IS PERMITTED IN THIS ZONING DISTRICT.
YOU DO BRING UP VALID POINTS. A FOOD TRUCK IS DIFFERENT THAN A BRICK AND MORTAR RESTAURANT. SO THE THING LIKE THE CUSTOMER SEATING AREA, THAT IS PROH PROHIBITED.
THEY ARE ASKING FOR THAT. LIKE YOU SAID, THEN THERE MIGHT BE THE NEED FOR REST ROOMS FOR THESE CUSTOMERS.
YOU KNOW, IF THEY NEED ONE, WHERE WILL THEY GO? AND THEN ALSO THE STANDARD WE WEARE IN THE ORDINANCE WHERE FOD STANDS MUST BE REMOVED FROM THE PREMISES.
THAT MEANS EVERY NIGHT. THEY GO HOME AND COME BACK.
I THINK THESE ARE ALL VALID QUESTIONS.
>> WELL, THANKS. BECAUSE I DON'T GET IT.
THE OTHER THING I DON'T GET IS THAT IF THE PETITIONER AGREED TO DO CERTAIN THINGS AND IS NOT DOING THEM OR DECIDES I DON'T NEED TO DO THEM, YOU KNOW, HOW MANY OF THESE, HOW MANY OF THESE THINGS ARE THEY GOING TO GET AWAY WITH-- TRY TO GET AWAY WITH THAT WE HOLD DEAR THIS THIS COMMUNITY AS FAR AS ZONING IS CONCERNED? I MEAN, I JUST SEE THE DISREGARD HERE OF WHAT THEY COMMITTED TO SO FAR.
I DON'T WITH ANY OF THIS. >> MORE DISCUSSION?
[00:30:07]
FOR THE DEPARTMENT. ON THE SIGNAGE.
ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE SIGNS THAT ARE FACING SOUTH INTO THE INTERIOR OF THE PARKING LOT WHERE YOU WOULD ORDER AND THAT THE NORTH SIGN THAT IS OUT THERE ON CARMEL DRIVE IS ALLOWED.
OFF WANT THE SOUTH SIGNS REMOVED?
>> RIGHT. ALL THOSE LITTLE-- THE LITTLE SIGNAGE BY THE ORDERING WINDOW, ALL OF THOSE ARE NOT ALLOWED.
THEY CAN DO, LIKE, A SANDWICH BOARD SIGN THAT THEY CAN PUT AND
TAKE AWAY EVERY NIGHT. >> OKAY.
>> BUT THIS SEMIPERMANENT SIGNAGE, THAT IS NOT ALLOWED.
I KIND OF SHARE SOME OF ALAN'S CONCERNS.
YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE OUTLINED WHAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE DONE ORIGINALLY, BUT IT HASN'T BEEN DONE, THEN HOW ARE WE GOING TO ENFORCE THIS GOING FORWARD. IS THERE-- I MEAN, OTHER THAN THROUGH THE ENFORCEMENT, THE HOSINSPECTOR?
>> YEAH. WE GIVE OUR CITY STAFF A LOT OF RESPONSIBILITIES IN THESE FOLLOW-UP THINGS.
YOU KNOW, IT SNOWBALLS. AND THE ABILITY REALLY TO REGULATE IS NONEXISTENT. BECAUSE IT IS JUST TOO MUCH.
YOU KNOW? >> ANYBODY WANT TO MAKE A
MOTION? >> MR. CHAIRMAN? I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT CODE ENFORCEMENT DEPARTMENT HAS BEEN WORKING WITH THE PETITIONER. IT HAS JUST TAKEN THIS LONG TO
>> I'LL MOVE TO APPROVE DOCKET NUMBER PZ2023-00031V.
DOCKET PZ2023-00037V WITH THE CONDITIONS THAT THE 18-MONTH TIME LIMIT, PROVIDING PHOTO EXAMPLES OF THE PROPOSED FURNITURE FOR THE OUTDOOR CUSTOMER SEATING AREA, AND PETITIONER REMOVING THE SMALLER INCIDENTAL SIGNAGE ON THE FOOD
>> WE HAVE A MOTION AND SECOND. >> ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, STATE
SO I THINK THAT IS ALL OF OUR BUSINESS TONIGHT.
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE TO BE DONE?
>> ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
MEETING IS ADJOURNED.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.