May 16, 2023 Carmel Plan Commission

[A. Call Meeting to Order]

[00:00:09]

>> GOOD EVENING. WELCOME TO THE MAY 16, 20203 MEETING OF THE CARMEL PLANNING

[B. Pledge of Allegiance]

[C. Roll Call]

>> THANK YOU. MR. SECRETARY, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL.

>> DEBBY. >> ADAM. >> LEE.

>> JEFF HILL. >> JOSH. >> SUSAN.

[D. Declaration of Quorum]

>> CHRISTINE. >> PRESIDENT. >> PRESENT.

[E. Approval of Minutes]

>> SO MOVED. >> SECOND. >> MOTION IS TO APPROVE.

IS THAT RIGHT? >> YES, THANK YOU. >> SECONDED THAT WE APPROVED THE

MINUTES THAT WERE CIRCUMSTANCE LATED. >> AYE.

[F. Communications, Bills, Expenditures, & Legal Counsel Report]

>> MINUTES ARE APPROVED. >> COMMUNICATIONS, EXPENDITURES. >> MR. PRESIDENT, THERE IS ONE

ITEM P Z 25 A. >> WELCOME BACK, BRUCE. >> GOOD EVENING.

BRUCE DONALDSON. I DON'T KNOW IF THIS COULD GO UP ON THE SCREEN.

THIS COMINGS FROM THE REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION. AS YOU HAVE SEEN MANY TIMES BEFORE, WHEN THE COMMISSION MAKES AN AMENDMENT TO AN EXISTING ECONOMIC PLAN, THEY HAVE TO SEND THAT TO THE PLANNED COMMISSION TO CHECK OFF WHAT THEY ARE PLANNING IS CONSISTENT OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN OF THE CITY AND IT GOES ON TO THE CITY COUNCIL FROM THERE.

THIS ONE IS FAIRLY SIMPLE. THE AREA IN BLUE YOU CAN SEE IS IN THE CARMEL DOWNTOWN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AREA. THE AREA IMMEDIATELY TO THE NORTH -- THIS IS ALL IN THE SQUARE AREA. THE AREA TO THE NORTH IS IN THE CITY CENTER REDEVELOPMENT AREA.

AND THE PROPOSAL IS TO SIMPLY MOVE THOSE PARCELS OUT OF THE DOWNTOWN, NUMBER ONE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AREA INTO THE CITY CENTER REDEVELOPMENT AREA SO THERE IS ONE AREA IN THE CITY CENTER REDEVELOPMENT AREA THAT WILL BE GOVERNED BY THE PLAN. ONE OF THE REASONS FOR THIS AS I UNDERSTAND THIS, EXCUSE ME, IS THAT PUD CORP IS APART OF THIS AND ACCORD TO GO THE TAX RULES, THEY CAN GET TAX OR BANKING ADVANTAGES UNDER THE FEDERAL LAWS.

THIS IS A BIT OF AN ACCOMMODATION TO IMPLEMENT THAT PIECE OF THE PLAN FOR THAT FOR PED CORPS. THEY ARE NOT LOOKING AT A NEW TIFF AREA.

THIS IS REMOVING OUT OF THE TIFF AREA. THIS ADDITION TO THE ECONOMIC AREA IS NOT A TIFF NOW. IF THEY WANT TO TIFF THAT THEY WILL HAVE TO COME AND DO THE SAME PROCESS AGAIN. THAT IS THE SUM OF THIS PROPOSAL.

I AM HAPPY TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS. >> MR. --

>> WHO WILL HAVE PLANNING AUTHORITY OF THIS PROPERTY? >> PLANNING AUTHORITY?

>> WILL THIS COME BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION FOR DEVELOPMENT APPROVALS OR TO THE

REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION? >> I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS ZONED AWAY.

I'M NOT EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE PLANNING TO DO THERE. I SUSPECT THAT IT IS ALREADY

ZONED FOR THE REDEVELOPMENT OF THE SQUARE. >> WE HAVE A SERIES OF ISSUES RELATIVE OF THE REDEVELOPMENT AND PLANNING COMMISSION AND WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT.

IS THERE ANYBODY FROM THE DEPARTMENT THAT COULD ANSWER THAT QUESTION IN A COMPREHENSIVE

WAY? >> I SAW MIKE HERE A LITTLE BIT AGO.

>> I CAN CONFIRM THAT IT IS ZONED C-2. WHICH WOULD BE REVIEWED BY THE

CR C FOR THE PLAN. >> WE ARE FORGOING ANY AUTHORITY OF THAT PROPERTY; IS THAT

[00:05:07]

CORRECT? >> IT IS ALREADY ZONED C-2 FOR THAT.

>> OKAY. >> AND WITH THE RESPECT OF THE ACTION REQUESTED TONIGHT.

>> OTHER QUESTIONS? >> ANY NEGATIVE IMPACT TO THE ALLOCATION AREAS THAT THESE WERE

IN, BUT NOW BEING MOVED OUT? >> NO. THERE WAS NO TIFF BEING GENERATED THERE. IT WON'T HAVE IMPACT ON ANYTHING THAT IS GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

>> IF THERE ARE NO OTHER QUESTIONS, IS THERE A MOTION TO ADOPT?

>> THANK YOU. >> SECOND. >> THANK YOU.

>> ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION, AYE. >> AYE.

>> ANY OPPOSED? >> RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED. >> THANK YOU, BRUCE.

[G. Reports, Announcements & Department Concerns]

ANYTHING ELSE? >> NOTHING ELSE, MR. PERSONAL PROP

PROPERTY -- PRESIDENT. >> ANNOUNCEMENTS FROM THE DEPARTMENT.

>> THANK YOU. >> WANTED TO MENTION FROM THE COMMERCIAL COMMITTEE.

THE TRU HOTEL RECEIVED A FAVORABLE RECOMMENDATION AND WILL HEAR FROM THE FINAL VOTE AND STREET TREES FOR THE FIRST ON MAIN WAS HEARD AND HAD THE APPROVAL AUTHORITY AND DID APPROVE THAT THAT NIGHT. THE RESIDENTIAL COMMITTEE DIDN'T MEET.

AD THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE HAS BEEN SET FOR THE CONOR PRAIRIE REZONE, THAT DATE IS TUESDAY, MAY 23 AT 6 P.M. THAT IS IN THIS ROOM, THE COUNSEL CHAMBERS.

[H. Public Hearings]

>> THAT'S IT. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU.

>> THAT TAKES US TO THE PUBLIC HEARING'S PROPORTION. THEY ARE THREE.

THE COMMISSION'S RULES FOR RULES FOR PROCEDURE FOR PUBLIC HEARINGS ALLOW FOR UP TO 15 MINUTES OF PRESENTATION BY EACH PETITIONER. FOLLOWED BY PUBLIC COMMENT AS LONG AS 20 MINUTES IN TOTAL. WE WILL DIVIDE UP THAT 20-MINUTE BLOCK OF TIME BY THE MEMBERS OF

THE PUBLIC WHO WISH TO SPEAK. >> THE PETITIONER WILL HAVE UP TO 5 MINUTES TO RESPOND AND THE

PUBLIC HEARINGS WILL BE CLOSED. >> THE FIRST DOCKET NUMBER PZ-2023- 00014 PUD.

REZONE. THEY SEEK PLAN REZONING AND 14, 2-FAMILY DWELLINGS.

4411 EAST 146 STREET, AND ZONED R1. AND ON BEHALF OF THE SCHAFER DEVELOPMENT LLC ON BEHALF OF JON DOBOSIEWICZ AND JIM SHINAVER. THE FLOOR IS YOURS.

>> I'M WITH THE LAWMAKER NELSON FRANKENBERGER. >> PRESENT TONIGHT ON THAT ARE BEHALF IS AARON, DAVE, AND REX WITH PULL HOMES AND REZONE APPROVAL FOR, FOR SALE 4 FAMILY HOMES AND TOWNHOMES. THE REAL ESTATE ISE IDENTIFIED AN THE AERIAL PHOTOGRAPH AND ON TAB 2 OF YOUR BROCHURE. BY THE WAY OF GENERAL BACKGROUND, THE ROADWAY CONSISTS OF 14.3 ACRES NEAR 46 STREET AND ZONED R1, RESIDENTIAL. AND THE OTHERS ARE ZONED RESIDENTIAL AS WELL AND THE LANDSCAPING BUSINESS AND ZONED R1 RESIDENTIAL.

AND TO THE NORTHWESTERN AND ACROSS THE STREET, A -- AND TO THE EAST IS A BUSINESS AND TREE AND LAWN CARE AND UNDEVELOPED PARCEL TO THE SOUTH OF THAT ON THE WEST SIDE OF GRAY ROAD AND EAST OF AND NEXT IS TO GAS STATION, AND ZONED R1 RESIDENTIAL, INCLUDING THE GAS

[00:10:06]

STATION, AND THE TWO NEIGHBORHOODS TO THE SOUTH. >> WHEN TRAVELING 146 STREET, THE CHARACTERS ACROSS 146TH STREET IS COMMERCIAL IN NATURE. THE CHARACTER SOUTH OF THE REAL ESTATE IS RESIDENTIAL. IN REGARD TO THE CARMEL COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, AS SHOWN HERE IS DESIGNATED AS A TYPICAL CORRIDOR AND THE LIGHTER YELLOW COLOR IDENTIFIES THE SPACE AS EAST NEIGHBORHOODS WITHIN CARMEL AS THE UNDERLYING ZONING DESTINATION AS TO SERVE AS A TRANSITION BETWEEN SURROUNDING USES AND SHOULD ALLOW FOR EXPANDED HOUSING OPTIONS AND LIMITED HOUSING, AND THE PUD FULFILLS THIS OBJECTIVE BY NOT PROPOSING A COMMERCIAL USE THAT IS SURROUNDED BY OTHER COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT AS NOTED BUT PROVIDING A HOUSING OPTION WITH AN APPROPRIATE TRANSITION FA 146TH STREET TO THE SOUTH OF THE REAL ESTATE.

THE POLICY, GOALS, AND OBJECTIVES CALL FOR SUCH THINGS AS A VARIETY OF HOUSING TYPES, AND MIXTURE OF LAND USES AND PROMOTING HOUSING OPTIONS FOR AGING IN PLACE.

THE HOME PRODUCTS WITHIN THE PUD, TWO FAMILY HOMES AND TOWNHOMES PROVIDE THIS MIX IN A VARIETY OF HOUSING TYPES IN AN AREA WHERE IT IS SUPPORTED BY THE COMPENSATIVE PLANS AND TO AGENTS PLACES AND CARMEL RATHER THAN TO SEEK THE OPTIONS ELSEWHERE.

THE COMPENSATIVE PLAN GUIDES DEVELOPMENT TO PROTECT SINGLE FAMILY NEIGHBORHOOD S WITH RESPECT TO THE SCALE OF BUILDING, LIGHTING, NOISE, AND OTHER IMPACTS.

IT IS IN IDENTIFIED FOR THE STAFF REPORT THAT IS A GOOD AREA AND FOR SALE USE RATHER THAN A COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT AND IT OFFERS A MODERATE DENSITY AS IDENTIFIED BY STAFF, TWO STORIES, GENERATES TRAFFIC THAT IS SIMILAR THE NUMBER OF TRIPS THAT IF IT WAS DEVELOPED, AND THE LARGER SETBACKS TO THE SOUTH, LANDSCAPING, AND POND, AND THE TRANSITIONS WHICH NEXT TO THE EXISTING RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITIES. ANOTHER OBJECTIVES FROM THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS TO IMPROVE RESIDENTIAL MOBILITIES AND IMPROVE FOR ACCESS VEHICLES AND EMERGENCY VEHICLES. AND PROVIDING FOR STREET AND PEDESTRIAN AND LESSEN THE TRAFFIC AND THE TO THE FUTURE IN THE EAST AND WEST AS WE WILL SHOW IN A MOMENT.

IN SUMMARY, IT IS SUPPORTED BY THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AS EVIDENCE IN THIS SUMMARY AND THE WRITTEN EXPLANATION PROVIDED IN THE BROCHURE AND MORE DETAILED ANALYSIS IN YOUR STAFFING

REPORT. >> THE EXHIBIT ON DISPLAY IS A COLLAR SITE AND TAB 3 OF THE BROCHURES. AS INDICATED IS TO DEVELOPMENT A HIGH QUALITY, SINGLE FAMILY, ATTACHED RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITY ON THE REAL ESTATE. AND IT SHOWS 60 HOMES, 14, 2 FAMILY HOMES AND 46 TOWNHOMES AND THE PRODUCT AREAS WITH THE TWO-STORY TOWNHOMES SHADED IN YELLOW AND FRONT-LOADING GARAGES WITH ACCESS TO THE STREET. AND TWO FAMILY HOMES ARE SHADED IN RED AND ACCESS TO AN ALLEY WHICH RUN BETWEEN THE LOTS. STORM WATER MANAGEMENT IS HERE IN BLUE. THE LIGHT AND DARK GREEN SHOW OPEN SPACE, THE DARK GREEN DENOTING THE TREE PRESERVATION IS NOT NOTED ALONG THE PARAMETER AND ADDITIONAL PLANS WILL BE

PROVIDED. >> ACCESS TO THE COMMUNITY IS FROM 146TH STREET, THAT IS RIGHT IN, RIGHT OUT ENTRANCE AND STREET CONNECTIVITY NEIGHBOR WITH THE PURPOSE FOR THAT SPECIFICALLY. YOU CAN SEE THAT HERE. ADDITIONAL STREET STUBS FOR FUTURE CONNECTIVITY IS PROVIDED TO THE EAST, LOCATED HERE. AND TO THE WEST, INTO THE SALISBURY APPROPRIATE PROPERTY. SPACE IS CLOSEST TO 146TH STREET, VICINITY HERE AND

[00:15:10]

THIS IS AN EXHIBIT OUT OF AN EXAMPLE OUT OF THE TOWNHOME EXHIBIT IN TAB 4.

BOTH HOME PRODUCTS, SINGLE FAMILY AND TOWNHOMES, TAB 8. AND THEY ARE FOR SALE AN INDIVIDUAL LOTS AND CONSISTENT WITH THE IMAGES ON DISPLAY AND THEY START IN 500'S FOR THE

SINGLE FAMILY HOMES AND TOWNHOME TYPES. >> AS NOTED, THE PROPOSED BUILDER A PULTY THE HAVE SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS AND MASS -- WINDOW REQUIREMENTS AND THE BOTTOM SHOWS THE REAR ELEVATIONS AS ONE CAN SEE IT WILL RESULT IN MATERIAL CHANGES, SEVERAL WINDOWS, FLOOR PLAN OFFSETS AND ALL ACROSS THE ELEVVALUEVALUATI THE PUD BEHIND TAB 5 IS THE TWO FAMILY DWELINGS AND ONE HALF AT THE BOTTOM AND RIGHT. THOSE WILL BE PAIRED TOGETHER WHEN DETERMINATIONS ARE MADE ABOUT WHICH MODEL IS NEXT TO ONE ANOTHER.

THERE COULD BE A MIXING WITH THE EVALUATIONS ACROSS THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN.

>> LIKE THE TOWNHOMES, THE TWO STORY, TWO-FAMILY HOME PRODUCT WILL HAVE DESIGN, SPECIFIC DESIGNS ON ALL SIDES OF THE EVALUATIONS. YO CAN SEE HERE THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF A TYPICAL SIDE ELEVATION AND A TYPICAL REAR EVALUATION.

THIS REAR EVALUATION ACCOMMODATES TO GARAGE THAT OPENS TO THE ALLEY, AND COVERED

OUTDOOR LIVING SPACE ON ALL OF THE TWO-FAMILY DWELLINGS. >> SHOWN HERE ARE THE PROPOSED EXAMPLES OF THE AMENITIES WHICH IS PLANNED AND THEY HAVE SPECIFIC DESIGNS INCLUDING A DOG PARK THAT IS A MINIMUM OF 14 THOUSAND SQUARE FEET AND GARDEN THAT IS NEXT TO 146TH STREET NEXT TO THE HEAVILY TRAVELED ROAD WAY. AND THE PLAN STRIVES TO CREATE COMMON AREAS INCLUDING THE DOG PARK AND COMMUNITY GARDENS THAT ARE NOT TYPICALLY FOUND IN THE

RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITIES OF THIS SIZE. >> CONCLUSION AND TO WRAP UP, WE'LL WORK WITH STAFF ON THE FEW REMAINING OUTSTANDING ITEMS, PEDESTRIANS, AND TREE PEFSHGZ

AREAS, PER SERVATION. >> AND THE MEETING WILL BE ON JUNE 6, WE'LL TAKE UP ADDITIONAL CONSIDERATION ON THE MATTER. I AM HAPPY TO TAKE QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME OR AT THE CONCLUSION

OF THE PUBLIC HEARING. >> THANK YOU, JON. >> WE'LL TAKE COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC. CAN YOU RAISE HANDS WHO WANT TO SPEAK? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. IS ANY OF YOU SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF A GROUP SUCH AS AN HOA, OR ANY OTHER GROUP OF PEOPLE? OKAY. WE HAVE 5 TOTAL.

SO THAT WOULD BE 4 MINUTES PER THE MAXIMUM, MAXIMUM OF 4 MINUTES PER SPEAKER.

>> YOU CAN GO IN ANY ORDER. I WOULD ASK THAT YOU ONE SPEAKER IS CONCLUDING, THAT THE NEXT PERSON STEP IN LINE. YOU DON'T ALL HAVE TO GET IN LINE NOW.

WE WANT TO MINIMIZE THE DOWN TIME. WE HAVE OTHER HEARINGS.

>> I CAN'T SEE THE LIGHT DISPLAY. I TRUST THAT IT IS.

>> IT IS. >> IT WILL GO TO YELLOW WHEN YOU HAVE 30 SECONDS AND RED WHEN

YOUR TIME IS EXHAUSTED. >> THANK YOU. >> IF YOU WOULD INTRODUCE

YOURSELF AND WHAT AREA OF CARMEL. >> EXCELLENT.

>> MY NAME IS TOM PERKINS. ON BEHALF OF THE NEIGHBORS AND THE NEIGHBORS IN THE GRAY OAKS.

[00:20:04]

MY GOAL IS TO AGGREGATE THE COMMENTS AND I HAVE TWO SPEAKERS FROM THE HOMEOWNERS WHO CAN

DELIVER SPECIFIC REMARKS ON SPECIFIC ISSUES. >> GENERALLY SPEAKING, THIS IS A HIGHER DENSITY PROPOSAL ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF 146TH STREET. THAT IS A CAUSE OF CONCERN.

MORE THAN THAT, THERE ARE CERTAIN INFRASTRUCTURE AND STRUCTURAL PROBLEMS THAT COME IN WITH THIS INCREASE DENSITY. NOT ONLY IS IT INCONSISTENT WITH THE NEIGHBORS NEARBY AND TRAFFIC ISSUES WITH THIS SUB-STREET THAT WASN'T A SUB-STREET UNTIL THIS PROPOSAL.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT LATER. TRAFFIC GOING THROUGH GRAY OAK SUBDIVISION AND THE ONLY ACCESS IS RIGHT TURN ONLY, COMING OUT OF THE SUBDIVISION. THERE ARE ALSO DRAINING ISSUES.

WE ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE DRAINING POND ISSUES AND I WAS AT THE COMMISSIONER'S MEETING AND SOUTH HAMILTON COUNTY HAS WATER ISSUES AND ADDING MORE DENSITY INTO CARMEL ON 146TH STREET ON THE EAST SIDE IS GONE TO FURTHER COMPOUND THOSE ISSUES.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THIS IS THE SECOND PROPOSAL FOR THIS SITE.

IN 2016, THERE WAS A PROPOSAL FOR SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTS, ABOUT 20-24.

THAT ACTUALLY GOT FAIRLY WELL THROUGH THE PROCESS. THERE WAS DRAINAGE STUDIES, UTILITY HOOK UPS PROPOSED AND IT WAS ALL WORKED OUT. THOSE ARE NOT YET AVAILABLE TO US. I UNDERSTAND WE ARE EARLY IN THE PROCESS, BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF GAPS THAT NEED TO BE FILLED IN. SO, IT IS IMPORTANT THAT PROPOSAL WAS ULTIMATELY WITHDRAWN. 20-24 HOMES. THAT FITS WITH THE EXPECTATIONS NOW. SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTS. WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE AGE IN PLACE AND THE DIFFERENT KINDS OF HOUSING THAT WE WANT TO HAVE AVAILABLE, THIS DOES MEET THAT DYNAMIC. THIS IS NOT THE APPROPRIATE PLACE FOR IT.

THE CONDO, THE TOWNHOMES THAT TO MIDTOWN AND ARTS DISTRICT, MY OWN FATHER HAD A CONDO IN THE MOWNONS THAT HE CAN WALK DOWN. THAT'S THE AGE IN PLACE, WHERE IT IS APPROPRIATE TO HAVE THE HIGHER DENSITY. THIS SPEAKS TO THE ISSUES IN CARMEL, THE POLITICAL CYCLE, WHAT KIND OF NEIGHBORHOODS DO WE WANT TO PUT IN, INTO CARMEL, WHERE DO WE WANT THEM? THIS HIGHER DENSITY IS A PROBLEM WITH THE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE SIGNIFICANTLY LESS DENSE.

SO, AGAIN, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE SOMEONE SPEAK TO THE TRAFFIC ISSUES, WE WILL HAVE SOMEONE SPEAK TO THE DRAINAGE ISSUES. OVER ALL, THERE ARE GAPS IN THE PROPOSAL.

I ASK THAT YOU SUSPEND THE RULES AND COME BACK TO A PUBLIC HEARING AND ONCE THE PUBLIC HAS MORE INFORMATION AND WE WILL BE ABLE TO INTELLIGENTLY PROVIDE COMMENTS.

RIGHT NOW THERE IS A GAP, AND A LOT OF UNKNOWNS RIGHT NOW AND BASED ON THE PROPOSAL, THERE ARE CHALLENGES TO THIS LOCATION. EVEN WITH THAT GOING THROUGH THE COMMITTEE PROCESS THE NEIGHBORS WITH INVESTED TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE APART OF THE PROCESS AND WILL CONTINUE TO MONITOR THIS

DEVELOPMENT. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU.

SOUND CHECK. DOES THAT SOUND GOOD? >> MY NAME IS JANE GATES AT 473 WELLS WOOD BEND. I WAS TRAINED AS A CIVIL ENGINEER AND HAVE 34 YEARS EXPERIENCE AND I AM RETIRED AND LIVING THE THREE BEST YEARS OF MY LIFE.

AND I AM JOINED BY MANY OF OUR NEIGHBORS AND WE HAVE A LOT OF THE NEIGHBORS HERE THIS EVENING.

[00:25:02]

I WANT TO FEEL HEARD. >> I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE POINTS IN COMMON REGARDING TRAFFIC. ALMOST ALL OF THE NEIGHBORS FEEL THE DEVELOPMENT WILL CAUSE SIGNIFICANT TRAFFIC CONCERNS FOR GRAY OAKS. A TRAFFIC STUDY WAS PERFORMED, THAT IT DID NOT STATE THE IMPACT OF TRAFFIC ON GRAY OAKS. IF IT IS PROVIDED BY GRAY OAKS COURT. THE TRAFFIC STUDY IS VAGUE AS THE ROUTES AND DISTRIRECTIONS A THE STUDY SAYS 23 PERCENT OF THE VEHICLE EXITING THE NEIGHBORHOOD WILL MAKE A RIGHT TURN ON 146TH STREET AND GRAY ROAD. IT IS UNSAFE. I HAVE NOT SEEN ANYBODY DO THAT SOUTH. IT DOESN'T DO THAT. IT GOES BY OUR HOUSES.

AND AS WELL AS THE STAFFORD AND USE THE ACCESS PROVIDED TO GET ON 146TH STREET.

VERY UNLIKELY. WE HAVE THAT NOW AND WE DON'T USE IT.

DUE TO THE INADEQUATE E, AND WE HAVE FUNDED OUR OWN STUDY AND THE DEVELOPER SHOULD FUND A STUDY THAT LOOKS AT THE IMPACT OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE ROUTING OF TRAFFIC.

>> COUPLED WITH THE CONCERNS OF INCREASED TRAFFIC THAT IS DETAILED IN MY WRITTEN TESTIMONY AND THAT OF MANY OF THE OTHERS THAT HAVE PROVIDED THAT AND THE CITY OF CARMEL NEEDS TO ADDRESS THAT, AND NOT TO MENTION WHAT THE CONSTRUCTION WOULD DO COMING THROUGH OUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND THAT HAS NOT BEEN ADDRESSED. I HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THE RESTRICTION TO ENTER INTO 146TH STREET COMING AND GOING IN ONE DIRECTION. THERE ARE TWO PROPOSED ENTRANCES, ONE ON 146TH AND ONE TO THE SOUTH AND THE UD O, REQUIRES DEVELOPMENTS WITH 15 OR MORE LOTS TO HAVE 2 ACCESS POINTS. I FOUND THIS IN THE UD O, AND THE ARTICLE SAYS 40 OR MORE LOTS SHOULD HAVE TWO ACCESS POINTS FROM A PARAMETER STREET.

I TAKE THAT TO MEAN 146TH STREET. IT DOESN'T PROVIDE THAT.

AND WHAT IS THE ACCESS TO COUNT IF HALF OF THE TRAFFIC IS RESTRICTIONS, SHOULD SHOULD QUALIFY AS AN ACCESS POINT? THAT'S HOW IT IS BEING VIEWED. I FEEL GRAY OAKS COURT WILL BE THE PRIMARY ACCESS COURT TURNING INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD -- ONE MORE, PLEASE.

AT ONE POINT TO THE MAIN PARAMETER STREET MAKE IT UNSUITABLE FOR A HIGHER DENSITY

LOTS, MUCH LESS 60. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. >> THANK YOU.

>> HI. I'M KERRY MCMICHAEL. 3740 WELLS WOOD BEND.

I WILL ADDRESS THE POND ISSUES. AS A HOMEOWNER AND A BOARD MEMBER OF THE HOA, WE ARE WORRIED ABOUT THE PUD WILL HAVE ON OUR PONDS. FROM THE ESTABLISHMENTS, THE PONDS ARE A TIME CONSUMING AND COSTLY ISSUE TO THE HOMEOWNERS AND DEVELOPERS.

SALISBURY BROTHERS CONTINUES TO THE NORTH WESTERN PART OF GRAY OAKS AND ISSUES OF CHEMICALS FINDING THEIR WAY INTO OUR POND FROM THEIR PROPERTY. AND BOTH HAVE SPENT MONEY AND TIME TO REMEDIATE THE ISSUES AND SALISBURY BROTHER TO ADD A RETENTION POND TO THEIR PROPERTY AND THE CITY IS AWARE OF THE ISSUE AS THEY CREATED -- TO MEET THE CRITERIA TO ADDRESS PRIOR TO

[00:30:01]

THE PROPOSED DEVELOPER IS 3 TIMES THE SIZE AND HIGHER DENSITY THAT TAKES MORE OF AN ANALYSIS, AND TO THE NORTH AND THE PRIOR WITH THE CITY OF CARMEL WITH DRAINAGE REPORTS FROM THE PREVIOUS REQUEST AND WE EXPECT THE CITY TO APPLY THE SAME STANDARDS AND ANALYSIS TO MAKE SURE THE GRAY OAKS COMMUNITY AND WE WON'T BEAR THE COST OF REMEDIATION OF OUR PONDS AND THE PRIOR TO THE RETENPOND THE MEDITATION OF WHAT THE POND IS ABSORBED AND THE NORTHERN PROPERTIES ADJACENT TO GRAY OAKS. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

WE WANT TO MAINTAIN THE R1 ZONING OF THE PROPERTY. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. >> GOOD EVENING, LADIESAND GENTLEMEN.

THANK YOU FOR TIME TONIGHT. >> MY NAME IS KEVIN. AND WORK AT THE LAW OFFICE.

NORTH STREET. >> I'M NOT HERE TO SPEAK FOR OR AGAINST, TO ESTABLISH CERTAIN INFORMATION IN THE PUBLIC RECORD FOR THIS DEVELOPMENT. WE ARE HERE RESPECTING SALISBURY LANDSCAPING INCORPORATED AS THEY OWN PROPERTY TO THE WEST 4305, 4315 EAST 146TH STREET.

SALISBURY HAS OPERATED AT THIS LOCATION FOR DECADES. IT HAS A LONG HISTORY OF WORKING WITH THE AREA TO BE -- IF YOU LOOK AT THE MAP AND SEE WHAT IS THE BEGINNING OF THE SALISBURY LANDSCAPING. IT PREDATES MOST OF THE ORGANIZED RESIDENTIAL AREAS IN THE AREA. THE CONCERNS HAVE BEEN EXPRESSED BEFORE AS THE PARCELS LOOK TO GET DEVELOPED. AND THEY ARE LOOKING AT THIS FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE AND THIS IMPACTS NOISE, DUST, AND ODORS TO NAME A FEW. THAT ARE NOT CONTAINED BY PROPERTY LINES. THIS WILL BE AROUND THE CLOCK AT TIMES BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE BUSINESS NEEDS FOR SALISBURY. THE MIDDLE OF THE LETTER THAT I HANDED OUT TODAY, I WILL NOT GO THROUGH THAT. YOU CAN LOOK AT THAT. BUT, IT OUTLINES SOME OF THE ACTIVITIES AND THINGS THAT OCCUR ON THE SALISBURY SITE THAT WE SIMPLY WANT THE INCOMING RESIDENTS, IF THIS IS APPROVED TO KNOW ABOUT, SO THEY ARE FULLY AWARE.

>> ACTIVITIES WILL OCCUR IN THE EARLY MORNING, ALL DAY LONG, INTO THE EVENING HOURS, AND AT CERTAIN TIMES OF THE YEAR AND DARKNESS OF THE OVERNIGHT HOURS. HEAVY TRUCK TRAFFIC IS A NECESSARY PART AND THAT COMES THE SOUND OF AIR BRAKES, BACK-UP BEEPERS, LIGHTS, STROBE LIGHTS AND ENGINES ON THE VEHICLES TO BE REVVED UP AND IT REQUIRES THE ENGINES TO BE REVVED AND

[00:35:19]

THERE IS A VEHICLE MAINTENANCE SHOP ONSITE. AND THE EMPLOYEE TRAFFIC WE HAVE

THAT COMES AND GOES DURING THE DAY. >> THE ITEMS THAT I HAVE LISTED ARE REPRESENTATIVE BUT NOT ALL INCLUSIVE BUT CHANGE OVER TIME AS BUSINESS AND OTHER NEEDS EVOLVE. WE BELIEVE IT IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE IT IN THE RECORD AND WE WANT TO PEOPLE TO KNOW ABOUT US AND TO WALK IN UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE IS A NON RESIDENTIAL USE NEXT DOORS THAT PREDATES THEIR HOME. WE HAVE MET WITH THE PETITIONER'S TEAM AND WALKING TOW TOWARDS RESOLUTION AND I THINK WE WILL GET THERE. BUT I WANTED THIS TO BE APART OF THE PUBLIC RECORD.

THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. >> WE HAVE THREE MINUTES LEFT IN

THE 20-MINUTE WINDOW. ANYBODY ELSE WISHES TO BE HEARD? >> MY NAME IS JOSH, I REPRESENT THE STAFFORD PLACE HOA. OUR REAL CONCERN IN REGARDS TO THE WAY THAT THIS PROPERTY IS BEING ADVERTISED AS A 55-PLUS PROPOSAL. THERE IS NO RULES IN REGARDS TO BE A 55-PLUS. SO, WE ARE CONCERNED THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE CHILDREN AT THE LOCATIONS. FROM THE THINGS THAT WE SAW IN REGARDS TO THE MENT AMENITIES O PROPERTY. THERE WILL BE NO CHILDREN'S PARK.

OUR PROPERTY WILL HAVE A PARK SO IT IS ONLY NATURAL THAT THE CHILDREN WILL COME TO OUR PARK AND WE DON'T WANT THE EXTRA EXPENSES AND THE DEVELOPER TOOK OUT AN ARTICLE IN THE IBJ SUGGESTING THAT THIS PROPERTY WILL BE A 55-PLUS RESIDENTS, TO ME, I DON'T SEE THAT.

AND SO, I'M CONCERNED THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE LOTS OF CHILDREN INVOLVED AND WHEN I WENT TO

ANOTHER NEIGHBORHOOD THAT IS SIMILAR IN DYNAMIC. >> WTHERE WERE LOTS OF CHILDREN OVER ON THE FAR EAST OF CARMEL. YOU CAN SEE TOYS, AND IN THE DEVELOP THERE.

THAT IS OUR CONCERN. WE DON'T WANT TO STUCK WITH HIGHER COST AND A LOT OF HIGH IMPACT ON OUR CURRENT PARK FROM A RESIDENT THAT IS PROPOSED TO BE 55-PLUS RESIDENTIAL AREA.

THAT'S ALL. >> THANK YOU. >> THAT WILL CONCLUDE THE PUBLIC COMMENT. AND OFFER A PETITIONER TO RESPOND TO ANY OF THE COMMENTS

IF HE WISHES. >> JUST A FEW ITEM, ONE IS IN REGARD TO THE COMMENT THAT THIS IS NOT A GOOD LOCATION ADJACENT TO 146TH STREET, WE BELIEVE THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSIONER THAT IT IS AN APPROPRIATE LOCATION FOR TOWNHOMES AND TWO-FAMILY DWEL

DWELLINGS. >> IN REGARD TO TRAFFIC, THE NEIGHBORS HAVE COMMISSIONED A STUDY, I WOULD ANTICIPATE THAT THEY WILL MEET WITH THE CITY ENGINEER.

WE HAVE MET WITH THE CITY ENGINEER AND PROVIDED INFORMATION TO THEM ON MORE THAN ONE OCCASION. IT IS NOT THE PETITIONER -- THIS IS FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE PUBLIC. I KNOW THE COMMISSIONER UNDERSTANDING THIS.

[00:40:01]

AND CONSTRUCTION TRAFFIC WAS MENTIONED, AND WE CAN DRILL DOWN ON THAT REGARDING CONSTRUCTION TRAFFIC AND PROHIBITING AND USING 146TH STREET ONLY FOR TRAFFIC.

>> THERE WERE COMMENTS THAT WERE MADE ABOUT DRAINAGE. THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE 2016 PROPOSAL AND THIS ONE, IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, WITH AS A DEVELOPMENT PLAN, AND THAT LEVEL OF DETAIL WHICH IS SUBMITTED TO THE PLANNER AND REVIEW IS MUCH MORE STRIJT.

ZONE ZONING WAS IN PLACE AND WE ARE SEEKING ZONING FOR A DEVELOPMENT, AND IT IS ULTIMATULTIMATE LY ADOPTED, AND THAT IS A DRAINAGE ISSUE AND WE WILL BE BACK IN FRONT OF THE ENGINEERING AND THEY WILL REVIEW DRAINAGE TO MAKE SURE IT COMPLIED WITH THE THAT ARE IN THE ORDINANCE TODAY. WHILE THOSE DETAILED PLANS ARE PREMATURE.

WE HAVE SUBMITTED DRAINAGE AND A PRELIMINARY ANALYSIS THAT IS TO THE CITY ENGINEER AT THEIR

REQUEST. >> WITH REGARD TO ACCESS, THE TWO POINTS OF ACCESS, RIGHT IN AND RIGHT OUT AND THE CONNECTIVITY AND DIRECTED BY THE CITY ENGINEER BY THE REVIEW PROCESS PRIOR TO GOING IN FRONT OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION. WITH REGARD TO THE COMMENTS FROM MR. BUCKEYE. WE DID MEET THE SALISBURY'S ON THEIR PROPERTY AND I WOULD AGREE WITH THEIR ANALYSIS THAT WE WILL INCORPORATE INTO OUR ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS AT THE TIME OF SALES DISCLOSURE THE INFORMATION THAT HE HAS OUTLINED, OR A VERSION OF THAT ONCE WE HAVE A CHANCE BACK AND FORTH AND DETERMINE WHAT NEEDS TO BE INCLUDED IN THAT INFORMATION.

>> AND FINALLY, THERE WERE ADDITIONAL COMMENTS ABOUT CHILDREN, AND MARKETING, WHILE THERE MAY HAVE AN ARTICLE ABOUT THE DEVELOPMENT, THE DEVELOPER DIDN'T PURCHASE ANY ADVERTISING WITH THE DEVELOPMENT. THEY BELIEVE THAT THIS DEVELOPMENT WILL BE ATTRACTIVE TO EMPTY-NESTERS AND THAT PROHIBIT TRAMPOLINES AND BUT THERE IS NO PROHIBITION FROM FAMILIES BUYING THE HOME, THEY THINK IT IS ATTRACTIVE TO A DEMOGRAPHICS THAT IS AN EMPTY-NESTER. I WILL ADDRESS ANY QUESTIONS THAT THE COMMISSIONER MAY HAVE.

>> THANK YOU. >> THE REPORT FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY

SERVICES. >> THANK YOU. >> AS STATED IN THE DEPARTMENT REPORT, WITH EVERY REZONE EVERY ITEM WE LOOK AT IS THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.

BECAUSE THIS IS ALONG 146TH, IT IS CONSIDERED A TYPICAL CORRIDOR ALONG 146TH STREET, AND TYPICAL CORRIDORS ARE EAST WEST, NORTH SIDE THAT GIVES ACCESS THROUGHOUT THE CITY AND THOSE ARE ADJACENT PATTERNS THAT ARE TRANSITIONS BETWEEN PLACES AND IT WOULD ALLOW LIMITED COMMERCIAL AND HOUSING AS LONG AS THEY ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE ADJACENT PATTERNS.

AND THAT WILL HELP SUPPORT THIS DEVELOPMENT ARE POLICIES ARE A VARIETY OF HOUSING TYPES WITHIN THE LAND USES, PROMOTING HOUSING OPTIONS THAT PROMOTE AGING IN PLACE AND TO PROTECT SINGLE FAMILY NEIGHBORHOODS FROM DISSIMILAR USES WITH RESPECT TO SCALE OF BUILDING, LIGHTING, NOISE, AND OTHER INCOMEN LAND U WE CAN SEE THE TRANSITIONS IN PLACE.

WITH THIS PROJECT, SOME OF THE TRANSITIONS INCLUDE A LARGER SET-BACK FROM THE SOUTH,

[00:45:06]

THEY HAVE REALLY MADE A LOT OF CHANGES BASED ON STAFF'S COMMENTS AND ADDITIONALLY, THEY HAVE ARCHITECTURAL STANDARDS AND THE IMAGERY AND THE PUD. WE ARE NOT FINISHED REVIEWING THIS AND WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE ADDITIONAL CHANGES MADE LISTED IN THE REPORT.

AT THIS TIME, WE WOULD RECOMMEND THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION SENDS THIS TO THE MEETING, JUNE 6, FOR THE FURTHER REVIEW AND DISCUSSION. THANK YOU.

THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. >> CONCLUSION OF THAT REPORT, THE PUBLIC HEARING IS CLOSED AT 6:48 P.M. DISCUSSION?

QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION? PROCEED. >> I WILL GO FIRST.

I HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS. THE COMMENT ABOUT THAT, WHAT IS THIS? IS THIS REALLY AN EMPTY-NESTER NEIGHBORHOOD. THERE IS NOTHING THAT SAYS EMPTY-NESTER. AND IT DOESN'T SAY 55 AND OLDER AND MOST ARE TOWNHOMES, AND MOST PEOPLE WHO ARE DOWN-SIZING ARE NOT LOOKING TO GO UP AND DOWN DOWNSTAIRS. I WANT TO PLAN FOR WHAT IT IS ACTUALLY GOING TO BE.

I AM NOT ASKING YOU TO PICK. THERE NEEDS TO BE A PLAYGROUND AND A BUFFER AND A FENCE ALONG 146TH STREET AND HOUSING OPTIONS THAT WORK FOR FAMILIES. IF IT IS AN EMPTY-NESTER NEIGHBORHOOD, IT IS THE REVERSE, WE WILL DESIGNATE IT AS THE EMPTY-NESTERS AND IT IS THE BIG PICTURE. I'M NOT REAL CLEAR ON WHAT THE VISION IS FOR THIS SUBDIVISION.

I'M ON THE COMMERCIAL COMMITTEE, I WILL GET IN THE WEEDS. I WOULD NORMALLY DO THIS IN THE COMMITTEE. WITH REGARD, THE PAIRED PATIO HOMES.

I'M NOT IN FAVOR, AND REDUCE THE DENSITY FOR THE SITE. WE HAVE THIS PRODUCT IN CARMEL.

WE HAD THIS IN LEGACY DEVELOPMENT. AND NEW ONES BEING BILL OF INDICTMENT -- BUILT IN 146TH STREET AND WE HAVE A LOT MORE COME.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE DETACHED, SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, AND I LIKE THEY ARE ALLEY-FED SO IT IS BETTER STREET LOOK. I CAN'T TELL WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE ON THE PICTURES AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE COLOR PALLET AND MITIGATION EFFORTS. AND MORE INFORMATION.

LANDSCAPING, IT SEEMS LIKE YOU ARE LIGHT ON LANDSCAPING AND FOR EVERY TREE THAT YOU SAVE WILL BE COUNTED TOWARDS THE REQUIRED TREES. IT IS NOT AN EITHER OR.

THERE ARE A LOT OF GREAT TREES ON THERE SITE. I WOULD LIKE AN ARBORIST TO GO THROUGH. I KNOW THIS A LOT. I'M NORMALLY THE BIGGEST ADVOCATE FOR MAKING THE CONNECTIONS. IT IS SOMETHING THAT MAKES OUR CITY GREAT. MY DOG AND I WERE OUT WALKING THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

IT IS BEAUTIFUL. IT IS QUIET. THAT COURT IS WONDERFUL.

AND IF YOU OPEN THAT UP TO ALL OF THIS TRAFFIC, I THINK, YOU KNOW, IT IS REALLY NOT GOING TO BE FAIR TO GRAY OAKS AT THIS LEVEL OF DENSITY. AND SADLY, SOME OF THE REAL NICE TREES SADLY IS WHERE YOU PUT THE STREET. I DON'T WANT TO SEE THOSE GO WITHOUT A GREAT LANDSCAPING PLAN. I DON'T SEE ONE HERE.

OPENING THAT UP, ON THE GRAY OAK'S SIDE, IT IS BEAUTIFUL. IT IS THIS, THEY HAVE SAVED TREES, THEY HAVE PLANTED MORE TREES. AND ALL OF THE YARDS LOOK LIKE

[00:50:05]

I HAVE CONCERNS, I HAVE OTHER COMMENTS. AS I STANDS NOW, I'M NOT IN FAVOR OF IT AND THERE NEEDS TO BE A LOT OF WORK. I WILL LET SOMEBODY ELSE SPEAK.

>> DITTO.

COMMENTS. I WON'T REPEAT THEM. >> PUT UP THE GRAPHIC UNDER TAB 3, PLEASE. THIS IS FROM MINE, I WILL ADD A COUPLE OF SHOW-ME QUESTIONS.

CAN YOU SHOVE IT UP NORTH? >> WE CAN'T WIDEN THAT VIEW. >> OKAY.

>> I WILL PUT THIS TOGETHER. THIS IS THE SMALLER END. >> CHRISTINE WAS TALKING ABOUT

SOUTHWEST COORDRNER OF THE PICT ON THE RIGHT. >> WHERE IT IS A CIRCLE. PIT IS

IT IS REALLY CHARMING. >> YOU DON'T HAVE TO ANSWER THE QUESTION, BUT MY CONCERN THAT I WILL RAISE, CAN IT BE REDESIGNED PDO NOT MAKE THAT A ROADWAY AND PUT EXITS OFF OF 146TH STREET?

TWO EXITS? >> I UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION. >> THAT WASN'T TO INSULT YOUR INTELLIGENCE. I WANTED TO MAKE SURE I ASKED PROPERLY.

>> WE WERE ASKED, THERE WAS A PREVIOUS ITERATION, AND WE WERE ASKED BY THE HIGHWAY DEPARTMENT

TO SHIFT IT TO THE WEST AS YOU SEE ALIGNED TODAY. >> I UNDERSTAND THERE IS COMPETING OPINIONS ABOUT THAT, BUT THAT WOULD BE AS A VOTER ON THIS COMMISSION, THAT'S MY CONCERN. THAT WOULD ADD DESIRABILITY TO THE PROJECT.

>> CAN YOU SHOW ME ON HERE, YOU TALKED ABOUT AMENITIAMENITIES, POINT TO WHERE THAT WOULD BE?

>> THE DOG PARK AND COMMUNITY GARDEN IS LOCATED IN THIS SPACE. >> OKAY.

>> AND THE RETENTION POND AREA TO THE SOUTHEAST. THAT IS LITERALLY GREEN SPACE

AND RETENTION POND? >> CORRECT. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS

REQUIRED THAT IT IS IN COMPLIANCE WITH THIS LAYOUT. >> AND TO CHRISTINE'S CONCERN, I WILL USE A TECHNICAL TERM, LIKE TO SEE IT MUSHED UP A LITTLE BIT WITH MORE TREES AROUND THAT

SOUTHEAST CORNER. >> IN THAT VICINITY THERE? >> CORRECT.

>> IF IT IS SUPPOSE TO BE A PLANNED COMMUNITY FOR AGING IN PLACE, 55-PLUS, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE ASSURANCES THAT THAT IS WHAT IT IS GOING TO BE. I DO HAVE GREAT CONCERNS IS THIS GOING TO BE A MULTI-FAMILY DENSE DEVELOPMENT INSTEAD OF A 55-PLUS, SENIOR COMMUNITY.

I AM IN FAVOR THAT IT IS 55-PLUS, BUT I DON'T SEE RESTRICTIONS.

DITTO TO THE REST OF CHRISTINE'S COMMENTS. THANK YOU.

>> WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT MULTI-FAMILY, TYPICALLY, WHEN WE TALK TO STAFF AND TALK ABOUT MULTIFAMILIES, WE ARE LOOKING AT 12-20 HOMES PER ACRE, WHICH IS 5-10 TIMES THAT ARE THE NUMBER OF HOMES PROPOSED ON THIS SITE. I WANTED TO MAKE CLEAR, WAS IT THE TOWNHOMES AND TWO-FAMILY DWELLINGS THAT WE ARE TALKING, NOT AN ALTERNATIVE THAT INCLUDES MULTIFAMILY.

>> AS YOU HAVE IT DESIGNED. IF IT IS GOING TO BE ATTRACTING FAMILIES, THAT, TO ME, A WHOLE DIFFERENT BALL GAME THAN A 55-PLUS COMMUNITY. SO TO THE EXTENT THAT THERE ARE BUILT IN RESTRICTIONS TO MAKE IT 55-PLUS, I THINK THAT IS GOOD FOR THE OBJECTIONS THAT I SENSE

[00:55:08]

ABOUT THE DEVELOPMENT AT THIS STAGE. >> I HAVE GOT A FEW OTHERS.

>> -- >> CAN YOU HEAR ME? OKAY.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE HOW THE VIEW OF STREETSCAPE AND HOW IT LOOKS FROM 146 STREET AND IF IT IS 55-OLDER AND WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE IN THE WINTER? IT IS A DOG PARK? MORE LIMITING AND IF IT IS NOT GOING TO BE RESTRICTIVE TO 55 AND OLDER, AS WE HAVE SAID, MAYBE WE NEED A PLAYGROUND. MAYBE RELOOK AT THE AMENITIES THERE.

AND TO WHO YOUR TARGET AUDIENCE COULD BE. I DO THINK THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE WANT TO MOVE IN WITH CHILDREN AND GO TO CARMEL SCHOOLS AND THEY ARE GOING TO WANT TO MOVE IN HERE. ONE OF MY STANDARD QUESTIONS, WHERE IS OVERFLOW PARKING? I DON'T HAVE TO KNOW KNOW. THE NUMBER OF SPACES AND THE LOCATION.

I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW ABOUT THE POWER TRANSMISSION EASEMENT. I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT MEANS. BUT I DON'T. IS THIS A LONG-TERM PROBLEM? SHORT-TERM? I KNOW IT IS COMING BACK FOR A D L S.

SOME OF THE QUESTIONS I WON'T ASK. I AM CONCERNED, AS CHRISTINE MENTIONED, THE ANTI-THREE COLORS, TWO COULD HAVE THE SAME COLORS, AND DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS? I WOULD LIKE BETTER DESCRIPTIONS.

PU PULTYMAY HAVE DONE THE SAME THING, THEY BUILD STANDARD.

COULD YOU NAME THE PLACES WHERE WE CAN SEE THE SAME HOMES AND WE CAN SEE THE TOWNHOMES?

IF THAT IS POSSIBLE. >> THEY HAVE YET TO BUILD EITHER OF THE TWO PRODUCTS IN THIS MARKET. THE TOWNHOME PRODUCT IS FROM, I BELIEVE IT IS DELAWARE.

WE CAN GET YOU INFORMATION ON THE COMMUNITY THAT IS BUILT THERE.

THEY TOOK A LOOK AT SOMETHING THAT IS DIFFERENT, NOT AVAILABLE TODAY.

>> OKAY. THAT'S GREAT. THEN YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET PICTURES OF WHERE IT IS DONE. I CAN MAKE IT OUT THERE TO VISIT IT.

>> ABSOLUTELY. >> IF THIS IS GOING TO MOVE FORWARD, THE PUD NEEDS A RENTAL HOME LIMITATION. HAVE YOU ALL ACTUALLY MET WITH THE GRAY OAK'S RESIDENTS?

>> WE MET TWICE WITH THE RESIDENTS, ONCE EARLIER THIS SPRING AND IN A NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING THAT WE CONDUCTED EARLY IN MAY. I THINK IT WAS MAY 3.

>> OKAY. >> IS THERE A WAY YOU CAN DO OVERVIEW, A WIDER AREA OF THE AREA AND THE DEVELOPMENTS AROUND IT AND LAYOUT A TRAFFIC PATTERN. MAYBE A DRONE VIEW. PI CAN DRIV.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE HOW THE STREETS RUN. MAYBE BUSES GOING INTO THIS DEVELOPMENT TO PICK UP KIDS, I WANT TO SEE A LITTLE BIT BETTER VIEW.

AND I WILL STOP. >> I THINK A GOOD SCOPE IS TAKE GRAY ROAD ON ONE SIDE AND ON THE OTHER, AND YOU CAN GET ALL THE WAY FROM THIS LOCATION OUT TO BOTH 146TH AND KERRY ROAD IF YOU

ENTER THROUGH THE VARIOUS RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS. >> THAT IS WHAT I WAS WONDERING.

THAT IS RIGHT. COULD WE LOOK AT THIS DIFFERENTLY.

OKAY. THANK YOU. >> YOU ARE WELCOME.

>> I LIKE THIS APPROACH, BUT THIS IS D OA WITH ME, AND THE NUMBER OF HOMES OF WHAT IS

ALLOWABLE. THANK YOU. >> I WILL GO.

LET ME START WITH, I'M NOT IN LOVE WITH THIS. I MEAN, THIS IS NOT LIKE THE BEST EVER. IN THE EFFORT OF EVERYBODY'S DOGGING IT, I WANT TO POINT OUT

[01:00:06]

IT IS A CIRCLE MY ASSUMPTION I MET WITH THE FIRE MARSHAL, BY RULE YOU CAN'T BACK UP A FIRE TRUCK MORE THAN 450 FEET, THAT'S WHY IT IS A CIRCLE. WHICH IS MISLELEADING WHEN YOU BUYING A HOUSE, YOU CAN SEE IT IS PLATTED RIGHT OF WAY TO THE OTHER PROPERTY.

NOW, ADDITIONALLY, IN PART BECAUSE I HAVE DONE THIS FOR JUST LONG ENOUGH I KNOW THAT NEIGHBORS ARE ALWAYS CONCERNED ON AN ADJOINING PROPERTY. I HEAR IT BOTH WAYS, DON'T BUILD A PRODUCT THAT COMPETES WITH OUR PROPERTY. AND WOULD MESS UP THE VALUE.

AND I HEAR DON'T BUILD THE PRODUCT THAT IS NOT LIKE OUR PROPERTY BECAUSE IT WILL MESS UP WITH VALUE. IT CAN'T BE BOTH. I THINK -- OF ALL OF THE THINGS I HAVE HEARD, THE PART THAT LIKE, OUR NEIGHBORS TO THE NORTH NEVER TREATED 146TH STREET IS HOLY. THEY HAVE MANAGED WHAT IS GOING ON.

TO THE NORTH, THERE WAS A TRAILER PARK NOT TOO FAR FROM HERE.

HAVING SAID THAT, WHAT IS GOING ON AT SALISBURY, THAT IS A PROBLEM THAT IS NOT GOING AWAY.

IT IS GOING TO BE A MAJOR ISSUE FOR PEOPLE WHO LIVE ADJACENT TO IT.

WHEN I'M WEARING MY OTHER HAT, WE WILL BE TAKING CALLS AFTER CALLS AFTER CALLS.

IT IS NOT COMPIBLE. >> SOME OF THE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE NOT SUSTAINABLE, SO HAVE IT SUSTAIN OUR CITY STREETS AND OTHER AMENITIES THAT WE HAVE GROWN ACCUSTOM TO IN THE CITY, IT IS NOT A HORRIBLE PLAN EITHER. I WILL FINISH WITH WHAT I SAID AT THE BEGINNING, I'M NOT IN LOVE WITH THIS, BUT I WANT TO KEEP SOME OF THE THINGS IN PERSPECTIVE AS WE LOOK AT WHAT WILL HAPPEN WITH THIS SITE. AS A FORMER CITY COUNCILLOR WOULD SAY, YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED, BUT YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO COME TOMORROW. YOU SHOULD WORK REALLY HARD TO MAKE IT THE BEST THING YOU CAN FOR THE SITE. I THINK ABOUT THE TIME THERE WAS A GAS STATION BEING PROPOSED AT GRAY ROAD AND 146TH STREET AND WE SECURED A NATURE PRESERVE WITH SAFETY MECHANISMS AND IT GOT SHOT DOWN. AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, A GAS STATION WENT THERE WITH ALL OF THE THINGS WE FOUGHT FOR. I APPRECIATE THE HEAD NODS AND KEYBOARD WARRIORING IT AT HOME AND I APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE AND I APPRECIATE YOU TAKING THE TIME TO COME.

AS I RECOGNIZE A LOT OF YOU. >> I APPRECIATE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, JOSH.

UNFORTUNATELY, THAT CITY COUNCILMEN LOST THE ELECTION.

I. >> I WILL GO BACK TO MY PRIMARY POINT, ALL OF THE ROOT CAUSES IS DENSITY. IF YOU REDUCE THE DENSITY AND STICK TO THE R1 ZONING AS PRESCRIBED, I'M SORRY IF IT COSTS TOO MUCH MONEY, MAYBE THE LAND OWNER WON'T GET THAT MUCH MONEY BECAUSE IT IS DENSITY-BASED, IT IS NOT OUR PROBLEM.

YOU CAN FIGURE IT OUT. IT IS 25-30 UNITS THAT ARE ALLOWABLE.

>> I'M NOT THE PETITIONER. IF YOU WANT TO TALK TO HIM. YOU CAN TALK TO HIM OVER THERE.

>> THIS IS NOT A TWO-WAY DIALOGUE. >> I FOUND IT AMUSING JUSTIFIED.

THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR TOWNHOMES. ARE YOU WILLING TO COMMIT TO 55

WITH TOWNHOMES? >> IT HAS NEVER BEEN REPRESENTED AND THE FILING AND THE DEVELOPER FOR AGE-RESTRICTED COMMUNITY. I WOULD ONLY ASK THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION LOOK AT THE

[01:05:07]

THAT ARE PROPOSED UNDER ON THE REAL ESTATE. >> I HAVE REPORTING WHAT THE STATEMENT THAT IT IS R1. AND I KNOW THAT UNDER R1, BASED UPON MY EXPERIENCE IS 25-30 UNITS. THE PEOPLE WOULD BE LESS CONCERNED ABOUT TRAFFIC AND A WHOLE HOST OF OTHER THINGS. BECAUSE IT IS MANAGEABLE. IT IS REPRESENTED TO THE SOUTH OF THIS PROPERTY. THERE IS VERY EXPENSIVE HOMES DOWN THE STREET.

WE KNOW 146TH STREET DOESN'T PRECLUDE US FROM DOING BEAUTIFUL HOMES.

I'M JUST SAYING, FIGURE OUT THE ECONOMICS, BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT GOING TO WORK THE WAY THEY ARE.

ORDER IT WAS PRESENTED IN THE PUD LANGUAGE. WOULD YOU CONSIDER WITH IN THE RESIDENTIAL COMMITTEE LOOKING AT THE ARCHITECTURE OF THE DUPLEXES AND WHAT I SAW IN THE RENDERS WAS ALL LAP SIDING ON THE FIRST STORY AND THEN SOME TREATMENTS ABOVE.

IF ALL THREE OF THOSE ELEMENTS CAN BE MIXED INSTEAD OF ON JUST THE FIRST FLOOR.

IT WILL ADD FOR DIVERSITY TO THAT PRODUCT. YOU STARTED TO ADDRESS END UNITS ARCHITECTURAL ADVANCEMENTS. IT IS NECESSARY AND APPROPRIATE. I THINK END UNITS, THE GABABLE OPTIONS AND SOMETHING TO BREAK UP THE FOE SECOND STORY, WHETHER IT IS VENTS OR A WINDOWS OR

DIFFERENT BUILDING MATERIAL. FOR THE DUPLEXES. >> FOR THE ACTUAL PRODUCT, I CO CONCUR, I TALK ABOUT COLORS AND I CONCUR.

REAR EVALUATIONS, I HAVE NOT SEEN I GUESS FOR THE REAR EVALUATIONS OF THE TOWNHOMES, BUT NOT OF THE DUPLEXES. I WOULD LIKE TO LOOK AT THAT MORE CAREFULLY.

AND WITH RESPECT TO THE AMENITY, THE DOG PARK IS A THIRD OF AN ACRE.

I THINK IT SHOULD BE AS LARGE AS POSSIBLE BASED ON WHICHEVER SIDE OF THE STREET IT IS LOCATED ON.

AND ALSO, THIS WOULD BE FOR BOTH THE DOG PARK AND THE COMMUNITY GARDEN, THAT THE DEVELOPER PROVIDE A WATER SOURCE AT EACH OF THOSE. THAT'S NECESSARY FOR THE DOGS AND THE PLANTS. AS WELL AS A STORAGE SHED FOR TOOLS AND GARDEN IMPLEMENTS AND SOMEBODY TOUCHED ON THE THAT THE LANDSCAPING REQUIREMENTS SEEM TO BE FAIRLY THIN.

AND AGAIN, I CONCUR, PARTICULARLY WITH REGARD THE ABSENCE OF LANDSCAPING FOR REAR YARDS. THOSE ARE VERY DETAILED ITEMS IN TERMS OF THE PUD TEXT.

I THINK THE CHALLENGE IS AND JOSH SPOKE TO IT, A FEW OF US WERE AROUND WHEN GRAY OAKS WAS ORIGINALLY APPROVED. I WENT BACK TO THE FILE IN 2012 TO DETERMINE WHAT WAS THE INTENT, IF ANY, WITH REGARD TO A SUB-STREET AND THE ORIGINAL PROPOSAL DID NOT HAVE, HAD THE SAME DEAD-END, OR CUL-DE-SAC, AND THE END RESULT IS WHAT WE HAVE TODAY WHICH PROVIDES THE CONNECTIVITY. AND IT IS THERE BY DESIGN AND NOW WE ARE ASKED TO FULFILL AN INTENT THAT WAS BUILT IN 11 YEARS AGO WHICH GRAY OAKS WAS DEVELOPED AND CONNECTIVITY IS A CITY OBJECTIVE. LEAH RAISES A GOOD POINT; IT HAS TO BE BALANCED BY, YOU KNOW, IS IT A BALANCE FLOW OF TRAFFIC? DOES IT PROVIDE A CONVENIENCE TO BOTH NEIGHBORHOOD, OR IS ONE

[01:10:04]

WHAT MOST OF THE SUBDIVISIONS THAT EXIST PREDATE THE HIGH VOLUME OF TRAFFIC THAT EXIST THERE. WHAT IS THE HOUSING PRODUCT OR ANY TYPE OF PRODUCT THAT IS BEST SUITED FOR THE HIGH AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC AND NOISE ALONG 146TH? THERE IS PROBABLY AN EQUAL NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO POINT TO WHO SAY I'M HAPPY TO LIVE ALONG 146, AND SOME THAT WOULD SAY I WOULDN'T HAVE CHOSEN TO BUY HERE. THIS KIND OF PRODUCT MAY BE THE TYPE OF THING THAT IS APPROPRIATE MITIGATE TO WHAT 1 146TH IS TODAY AND THIS PETITION AT THE COMMITTEE LEVEL OVER THE NEXT FEW MONTHS. THAT'S ONE OF THE KEY CONSIDERATIONS THAT I WILL BE FOLLOWING. I HOPE THAT GIVES YOU AND THE RESIDENTIAL COMMITTEE SOMETHING TO CHEW ON IF THIS GOES TO THE RESIDENTIAL COMMITTEE.

>> IT DOES, IF I MAY? WITH REGARD TO TRAFFIC AND THE CONNECTIVITY TO GRAY OAKS, WE DID REACH OUT TO THE CITY ENGINEER AND ASK IF THEY CAN HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE TONIGHT AND THE JUNE 5 OR 6 MEETING, WE DON'T CONTROL THEIR SCHEDULE. IF THAT IS SOMETHING THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION COULD LIKE TO SEE, IF YOU CAN CONVEY TO THE STAFF SO THEY CAN LET THE ENGINEER KNOW. AND ONE THING THAT WE COULD PROVIDE IN THE PACKET BEFORE IT GOES OUT IS ONE OF THE COMPLICATING ISSUES WE ARE COMPARING 1-1 RATIO TO ATTACHED SINGLE FAMILY AND THE TRIP GENERATION THAT IT CREATES. AND WE WILL SUBMIT THAT TO THE STUFF AND IT COMES WELL BEFORE THE MEETING, WHEN THE AGENDA COMES OUT, SO YOU CAN SEE FROM THE TRAFFIC ENGINEER PERSPECTIVE WHAT IS THE RATIO ON SINGLE FAMILY AND DETACHED SINGLE FAMILY AS FAR AS TRIP GENERATION, IT IS ENLIGHTENING AND WE'LL SHARE AT COMMITTEE.

>> MR. PRESIDENT, I HAVE ONE THING TO ADD? MAY I? THANK YOU. I WAS THINKING A MOMENT AGO ABOUT WHETHER THIS ENDS UP 55 AND OLDER COMMUNITY OR NOT. I THINK REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT IS A PUD 55 AND OLDER OR NOT, ADDING A PLAYGROUND SEEMS REASONABLE. PEOPLE OVER 55 HAVE CHILDREN TO COME AND VISIT. THAT IS SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN WORK INTO IT.

EITHER WAY. >> THANK YOU. >> IF THERE IS NO OTHER

DISCUSSION, IS THERE A MOTION HOW WE MOVE FORWARD? >> I MOVE THIS GOES TO THE

RESIDENTIAL COMMITTEE AND COMES BACK HERE FOR A FINAL VOTE. >> I WILL SECREOND THAT.

>> THANK YOU. >> ALL IN FAVOR TO SEND TO THE RESIDENTIAL COMMITTEE, MEETING JUNE 6. AND FOR THEM TO WORK WITH AND RETURN TO THE COMMISSION WITH A

RECOMMENDATION OF SOAY AYE. >> AYE. >> ANY OPPOSED?

>> JUNE 6, THE PUBLIC HEARING IS NOW CLOSED. BUT THE MEETINGS WILL OCCUR IN THE CAUCUS ROOM TO YOUR LEFT, JUNE 6 AT 6 P.M. SO, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO CAME

OUT, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> WE'LL MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA.

>> THAT IS DOCKET NUMBER PZ-2023- 0000 -- SITE FOR BJ'S WHOLESALE, 14480 LOWE'S WAY.

THE ZONING PUD DEVELOPMENT, UNDER ORDINANCE Z, AND KEY STONE AVENUE AS AMENDED.

IT IS PARTLY IN THE SPECIAL FLOOD AREA, AND ON BEHALF OF MARC LAVOIE.

ARE YOU HERE? >> SO THE FLOOR IS MARC'S OR ANYBODY ELSE WHO WISHES TO

[01:15:17]

SPEAK. >> LET'S TRY THIS AGAIN. BETTER?

>> OKAY. STARTING OVER. FOR THE RECORD, GENE BEYERMAN WITH KITE REAL ESTATE GROUP. INDIANAPOLIS, INDIANA. I'M HERE WITH MARK JENKINS.

I'M JOINED BY MARC LAVOIE WITH BJ'S AND MURRAY CLARK, OUR ATTORNEY WITH -- AND WITH KIMBERLY HORN AND THE CIVIL ENGINEER AND JASON CAR, WHO IS A FUEL ENGINEER FOR THIS PROJECT, AND STEVE, WITH A AND F ENGINEER. THEY DID THE TRAFFIC REPORT AND

TRAFFIC DESIGN FOR THIS PROJECT. >> SO, IF YOU ARE READY, WE WILL JUMP INTO IT.

MANY OF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE PROJECT THIS IS AT THE SOUTHWEST OF 146TH AND LOWE'S WAY. THE LOWE'S IS THE EXISTING LOWE'S.

WE HAVE GONE THROUGH A PUD AMENDMENT WHICH IS THE BJ YOU CAN SEE IN RED DOWN HERE.

SO WE HAD THROUGH THAT PROCESS, WE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO REALLY HASH OUT A LOT OF THE FINE DETAILS. OF THIS PLAN. THE DPA THAT YOU ARE SEEING NOW THAT PUD AMENDMENT DID APPROVE THE USE AS A WHOLESALE CLUB AS WELL AS A FUEL CENTER.

TO GIVE A LITTLE BIT OF A HISTORY ON THE PROJECT. KITE REALTOR GROUP HAS OWNED FOR OVER 20 YEARS. WE WERE APART OF THE ORIGINAL DEVELOPMENT EVEN MORE WITH 31 CORRIDOR WAS REBUILT. RIGHT NOW, THE PARCEL IS USED, IT HOUSES TWO RESTAURANTS, ONE OF WHICH IS EMPTY. WE AS THE PROPERTY OWNER SEE THAT AS AN UNDER-UTILIZED PARCEL. IN FACT, WE WANTED TO SEE A GROCERY USE GO ON THIS PARCEL.

WE ARE EXCITED ABOUT THIS PROJECT AND WE ARE EXCITED WITH THE PARTNERSHIP WITH BJ'S.

>> THE PRIMARY ELEMENTS IS THE WHOLESALE CLUB WHICH IS 100 THOUSAND SQUARE FEET AND ON THE SOUTHWEST IS THE FUEL CENTER. WE WILL BE TAKING THE RETENTION PONDS WHICH IS RIGHT HERE AND RELOCATED TO BE UNDERGROUND TO MAXIMIZE THE UTILITY AT THE SITE.

WE HAVE SOME OFF-SITE IMPROVEMENT, WHICH SOME MAY BE FAMILIAR WITH.

WE ARE CHANGING THE RIGHT TURN ONLY LANE NORTHBOUND ON LOWE'S WAY, WHICH WILL BE A THROUGH-WAY RIGHT TURN AND AN ADDITIONAL THROUGH-LANE ON 146TH LANE AND A SLIP LANE AT THE ROUND-ABOUT HERE AND TO HELP THE TRAFFIC GENERATED BY THE WHOLESALE CLUB ITSELF.

AND ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE SITE, WE HAVE A RIGHT TURN ONLY OUT.

SO NO LEFT IN NORTHBOUND. WE WILL HAVE A MEDIAN IN THE MIDDLE OF LOWE'S WAY TO PREVENT NORTHBOUND LEFT TURNS. WE HAVE BEEN WORKING CLOSELY WITH STAFF ON THIS PROJECT.

WE GOT THE STAFF REPORT LAST WEEK AND WORKING HARD WITH STAFF TO FIND RESOLUTION TO THE REMAINING COMMENTS. I THINK WE HAVE ADDRESSED ALMOST ALL OF THE REMAINING COMMENTS THAT STAFF HAD. I BELIEVE WE OWE SOME MORE INFORMATION ON THE ROOF TOP UNIT SCREENING WHICH WILL PROVIDE IN THE COMING WEEKS HERE. OTHERWISE, WE HAVE BEEN LIKE I SAID WORKING WITH STAFF AND WE ARE EXCITED ABOUT THE COOPERATION WE HAVE SEEN WITH

[01:20:02]

>> THANK YOU, GENE. >> FOR THE COMMERCIAL COMMITTEE? IS THERE A REPORT? I'M SORRY. I'M CONFUSED WITH THE PUD AMENDMENT THAT WE PREVIOUSLY TOOK UP. SO, WE KNOW GO TO MEMBERS OF PUBLIC.

MAY I SEE A SHOW OF HANDS WHO WOULD LIKE TO? >> THE DEPARTMENT REPORT.

>> THANK YOU. >> FOR THE RECORD RACHEL, WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY SERVICES. WE HAVE BEEN WORKING HARD WITH THEM TO ADDRESS REMAINING COMMENTS THAT WE HAD IN THE DEPARTMENT REPORT THERE WERE SOME ITEMS LISTED AS NOT MEETING PUD STANDARDS. THOSE ITEMS WILL BE REVISE. AND PROVIDED SO WE CAN HAVE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION WE EXPECT ALL OF THOSE TO BE ADDRESSED. THE PROPOSED PLAN IS WHAT WE HAVE SEEN DURING THE AMENDMENT. THE PROPOSED GAS STATION AND UNDERGROUND STORAGE TANKS HAVE BEEN REVIEWED. AND THE PETITIONER HAS MET THE REQUIREMENTS FOR ADDITIONAL PROTECTIONS OF THE UNDERGROUND SHORTAGE TANKS FOR THE PROTECTION OF COOL CREEK.

WHICH IS TO THE SOUTH OF THIS SITE. THE PROPOSED PARKS IS IN LINE WITH THE PUD AMENDMENT. 403 PARKING SPACES WERE ORIGINALLY PROPOSED, AFTER

LANDSCAPE ADDITIONS THAT WE WILL HAVE, WE WILL HAVE 393 SPACES. >> BIKE PARKING IS PROVIDED AT THE NORTHEAST PART OF THE BUILDING. AND DISCUSSING WITH LITTLEJOHN, HE IS SUPPORTIVE OF THE PROPOSED LOCATIONS. HE WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME FURTHER CHANGES AND ADJUSTMENTS TO ENSURE THAT ENOUGH ROOM FOR E-BIKES AND E-CARGO BIKES WOULD FIT GIVEN THE NATURE OF THE STORE. AND THE PETITIONER STATED THAT WE WILL CONTINUE TO WORK TO WORK THE STAFF ON THE ITEMS. THE BUILDING MEETS THE PUD STANDARDS AND THE EVALUATIONS THAT WE SAW. ONE OF THE CONCERNS FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION DURING THE PUD AMENDMENT WAS KNOWING ABOUT THE ROOF TOP EQUIPMENT AND THERE THERE IS PROPER SCREENING AND WHICH WE REQUIRE AND THEY WILL GIVE US DRAWINGS AND PLANS FOR

THE ROOF TOP OF THE BUILDING. >> TO CONTINUE, THEY ARE WORKING ON PROVIDING ADDITIONAL LIGHTING INFORMATION THAT WILL HELP ENSURE A SEAMLESS TRANSITION BETWEEN THE LOWE'S PROPERTY AND THE OTHER PROPERTY AND WE'LL SEE THAT IN ADVANCE OF THE COMMITTEE MEETING.

THE LANDSCAPING IS COMPLIANT. THERE WAS ONE ISSUE WITH BUILDING-BASE LANDSCAPING ON THE WEST EVALUATION OF THE BUILDING. THIS WAS PRIMARILY DUE TO A BAD INTERPRETATION OF THE PUD LANGUAGE AND I OFFERED SUGGESTIONS TO MAKE UP FOR THE LOSS OF LANDSCAPING AND THE REDUCTION OF THE PARKING SPACES WILL MAKE UP FOR THE LANDSCAPING THAT IS LOST IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING. WE WILL HAVE EXHIBITS TO GO OVER IN COMMITTEE TO SHOW HOW WE ARE COMPROMISING ON THAT ISSUE. GENERALLY, SIGNAGE WAS PROPOSED AS THE AMENDMENT PROCESS.

AND I HAD A FEW CLARIFYING QUESTIONS ABOUT THE GAS STATION SIGNS AND THEY PROVIDED A NEW EXHIBIT TO ME AND THAT HAS ADDRESSED ALL OF MY CONCERNS FOR THAT.

SO, WITH ALL OF THE WORK THAT THEY HAVE DONE, I RECOMMEND THAT WE FORWARD TO THE COMMERCIAL COMMITTING AND FOR THEM TO HAVE FINAL VOTING AUTHORITY. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU, RACHEL. >> THAT CLOSES THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 7:27.

DISCUSSIONS FROM MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION? >> I HAVE A COUPLE OF ITEMS.

[01:25:01]

BIKE GUY? TO HAVE BIKE PARKING THAT MAKES PERFECT SENSE TO ME.

I MAY LEVEL UP A LITTLE BIT IN HAVING LIKE A COVERED AREA WHEN YOU ARE LOADING YOUR CARGO BIKE IN RAINY WEATHER, IT IS HELPFUL TO BE COVERED. FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.

THIS IS NOT THE PURVIEW OF THIS COMMISSION, I AM CURIOUS ABOUT THE SOUTHEAST EXIT, I PRESUME.

>> SURE. >> I -- I AM CURSE WHAT ENGINEER'S THOUGHTS ARE ABOUT THE, THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT THAT IS, ABOUT MAKING A LEFT-HAND TURN TO GO THE WRONG WAY. I'M JUST CURIOUS. MY VOTING AUTHORITY DOESN'T GO FAR ENOUGH TO NOT VOTE FOR THE PROJECT. BUT I'M CURIOUS ABOUT THAT.

I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THE OTHER ITEMS AS STAFF HAS MENTIONED. >> I CAN SPEAK TO THE LEFT IN.

IF YOU ARE REFERRING TO MAKE A LEFT TURN NORTHBOUND HERE. >> YES.

>> SO, WE HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH THE ENGINEER DEPARTMENT AND WE ARE INCORPORATING, IT IS HARD TO SEE ON THE DRAWING, A RAISED MEDIAN, THAT WILL SPAN THE LENGTH OF THAT.

>> IT IS NON MOUNTABLE? A TURN-BACK CURB. >> IT IS NON MOUNTABLE.

>> A STREET CURB. >> NOT IN THE PURVIEW, I AM CURIOUS ON HOW THAT WILL WORK.

THANK YOU FOR UNDERSTANDING ME. >> SURE. >>> IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER, ONE CONCERN IS THE LOADS ZONE RIGHT AT THE FRONT OF THE STORE WHERE CARS PULL UP TO PUT THE MATTRESS ON TOP OF THE CAR OR THE TV ON TOP OF THE MINI VAN BECAUSE OF THE ENTRANCE OF THE EAST WEST STREET. EVERYBODY THAT IS COMING TO BJ'S IS RIGHT AT THE HIGHEST PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC AND LOADING ZONE, TRAFFIC, CORNER OF THE BUILDING.

SO WHAT IS THE EXTRA SPACE PROVIDED THERE FOR A CAR TO PULL UP AGAINST THE BUILDING AND TRY TO GET OUT OF TRAFFIC WHILE THEY ARE USING THAT AS A LOADING ZONE?

>> I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY HAS ANYTHING TO ADD. WE HAVE 30-FOOT DRIVE AISLES AROUND THE PARAMETER OF THE BUILDING THERE THAT WILL ALLOW FOR, YOU KNOW, CUSTOMERS WHO ARE PICKING UP A MATTRESS OR A TV, WHAT HAVE YOU, TO PARK THEIR CAR AND PUT THEIR HAZARDS ON AND LET

TWO-DIRECTIONAL TRAFFIC GO THROUGH AS WELL. >> 35 FEET IS GOOD.

THANK YOU. I THINK ALL OF THE PLANS I SAW, A MARKED PEDESTRIAN CROSSING COMING FROM THE NORTH, BUT I DIDN'T SEE GOING EAST AND WEST FROM THE LARGEST PARKING FIELD.

COMMITTEE, MAYBE SURE WE HAVE A COUPLE OF THOSE CLOSER TO THE WHERE ALL OF THE PEDESTRIAN FLOW

COULD BE. >> CAN WE EXPAND ON THAT? IT APPEARS THERE IS PATH THERE, BECAUSE THERE IS A MULTIUSE PATH, A PEDESTRIAN PATH TO THE NORTH.

YOU ARE ASKING A NICK QUESTION, GETTING PEOPLE BACK INTO THE PARKING AREAS, I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE PETITIONER AND STAFF BETTER TO EXPAND UPON.

GETTING BACK TO YOUR ORIGINAL POINT TOO, IT ALMOST MAKE ME WONDER BECAUSE THE ENTRANCE IS SITUATED WHERE IT IS, A RAISED PEDESTRIAN CROSS-WALK MAY HELP MAKE THE AREA SAFER IN GENERAL.

>> IT IS NOT A BAD THOUGHT. I WOULD DEFER TO THE COMMISSIONER.

THE CHALLENGE IS ALL OF THE LOADED SHOPPING CARTS AND FLAT BEDS

>> AND DRAINAGE AND ALL OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT COME WITH IT. I MAY LOOK AT STAFF AND THE

[01:30:03]

SPECIAL THERE. >> THERE IS A WHOLESALE CLUB THAT RESTRIPED THIS AREA ON THEIR STORE ON THE NORTHWEST SIGHT OF INDIANAPOLIS THAT WOULD SERVE AS A GOOD MODEL.

I GUESS. >> I SAW, I THINK, A PROPANE TANK CAGE.

THAT IS NOT AN ITEM THAT WOULD BE STORED INDOORS. IS THAT WHAT IS PROPOSED JUST

OUTSIDE OF THE TIRE CENTER? IN THE PARKING LOT? >> YES, THAT IS THIS RIGHT HERE.

>> OKAY. AND SO, THE SAME QUESTION, IS THERE A FEW PARKING SPACES RESERVED FOR LOADING AND UNLOADING OF EMPTIES AND FULL TANKS?

>> THAT IS SOMETHING WE ARE EXPLORE. >> PARKING IN THE DRIVE LANE WE'LL THEY TAKE CARE OF THAT. IS THERE A TIRE AIR STATION PROPOSED HERE?

>> YES, THERE IS. MAYBE SOMEBODY COULD DIRECT ME TO WHERE IT IS AT?

RIGHT HERE? RIGHT HERE? >> STAFF, HAVE YOU SEEN THAT AND

VETTED IT AND ANY SIGNAGE ASSOCIATED WITH IT? >> I DON'T RECALL SEEING THAT

CALLED OUT. I WILL MAKE SURE IT IS CORRECT. >> WE ARE TALKING ABOUT RESERVE PARKING SPACES, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SIGNS, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.

>> AT THE FUELLING CENTER S, A CUSTOMER WINDOW AND A CASH DRAWER.

WHAT IS THE NATURE OF THAT ACTIVITY? CAN GAS PURCHASED BY NON MEMBERS

AND THERE MAY BE WALK-UP TRAFFIC NOT PAYING AT THE PUMP? >> MFARC, DO YOU WANT TO SPEAK?

>> I'M THE SITE MANAGER. >> WELCOME. >> WE DO NOT ALLOW AT THIS SITE, THIS IS FOR MEMBERS ONLY. THEY WILL TAKE CREDIT CARDS, CASH, THERE IS AN OPERATOR AND KIOSK WHERE YOU CAN MAKE THAT TRANSACTION. IS THAT IS QUESTION?

>> I ASSUME THEY WILL PAY AT THE PUMP. >> YES --

>> IS THIS AN EMERGENCY? >> YES, YOU CAN PAY AT THE PUMP AND YOU HAVE TO OPTION TO GO TO

THE KIOSK IF YOU ARE PAYING IN CASH. >> OKAY.

THAT TAKES ME TO THE LAST ISSUE. I HAVE SIGNIFICANT CONCERNS ABOUT THE STACKING AREA FOR THE FUELLING CENTER. IT LOOKS LIKE THAT STACKING AREA IS MAYBE A COUPLE OF CAR LENGTHS DEEP. AND THAT IS PROBABLY NOT SUFFICIENT ON A SATURDAY MORNING. IF THE CUEING IS HEAVY AT THE NORTH END OF THE FUELLING CENTER, DOES TRAFFIC BACK UP TO THE NORTH BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET TO ANY OF THE PUMPS FURTHER TO

THE SOUTH IN THE FUELLING CENTER? >> LET ME JUST POINT OUT TWO THINGS HOW WE ARE DIFFERENT FROM SOME OF OUR COMPETITORS. SOMETIMES THEY HAVE TWO PUMPS, STACKED. WE HAVE INLINE, WE HAVE 6 PUMPS THAT EVERYBODY CAN HAVE ACCESS TO. AND THERE ARE THREE STACKED CARS AND THAT IS 24 QUES SPACES.

WE HAVE A CUEING SPACES. WE HAVE A MAX OF 21 CARS. WE CAN ACCOMMODATE PEEK HOUR AT THE PUMP, ALLOWING 3 CARS AT EACH PUMP. THE GOOD NEWS, WE HAVE THE FUEL CENTERS AT THE ENTRANCE. THAT'S WHERE WE LIKE TO PUT THEM.

AS YOU KNOW FUEL WANTS TO HAVE HIGH VISIBILITY FROM THE STREET. THE GOOD NEWS HERE IN CARMEL, WE

ARE PUTTING THE FUEL CENTER>> PARKING LOT, IF THERE WAS BACK-UP.

IT IS NOT GOING TO INTERFERE WITH THE SITE ENTRANCES. WE THINK THE 21 IS THE PEEK, WE HAVE ENOUGH FOR 24. THERE IS STILL ROOM FOR ADDITIONAL CARS TO CUE UP IN THE PARKING LOT, WHERE THEY WON'T INTERFERE WITH THE SITE ENTRY OR EXITS.

>> THAT IS HELPFUL. THANK YOU. >> IN THE DEPARTMENT REPORT, I

[01:35:05]

>> AFTER DISCUSSIONS WITH THE PETITIONER, THEY ARE LOOKING AT OPTION NUMBER 2, WHICH IS TO INCREASE THE SIZE OF THE PLANTER ISLANDS. INSTEAD OF REDUCING THE DRIVE

AISLE LENGTHS. >> GOOD ANSWER. THANK YOU.

>> DID THEY FOUND THE LOCATIONS OF THE CART AREAS? >> YES, WE DID.

THANK YOU. >> GREAT. >> OTHER DISCUSSION FROM THE

COMMISSION OR A MOTION? >> I WILL MAKE A MOTION TO COMMISSION WITH FINAL VOTING.

>> THANK YOU. >> BEGINNING JUNE 6 WITH FINAL VOTING AUTHORITY.

TO THE COMMITTEE. AYE. >> AYE.

>> ANY OPPOSED. THAT'S WHAT WE WILL DO. >> GENE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THANK YOU, TEAMMATE. >> HAVE A GOOD EVENING. >>> NEXT ITEM, ONE MORE PUBLIC HEARING, FOUR DIFFERENT DOCUMENT, WHICH I WILL READ, DOCKET NUMBER PZ-2023- 000086, PLAT VACATION, L OR, DEVELOPMENT, PARTIAL PLAT, DOCKET NUMBER PZ-2023- 00087, PLAT RANGE, PRIMARY PLAT, DOCKET NUMBER PZ-2023- 00088. REQUIRES 10 PERCENT OPEN SPACE, AND ZERO PERCENT IS PROPOSED. DOCKET NUMBER PZ-2023- 00089, SUBDIVISION SECTION 6.15 REQUIRING 10 FOOT MINIMUM LANDSCAPING, AND THE APPLICANT SEEMS PLAT VACATION AND TWO DESIGNERS TO REMOVE THE SINGLE FAMILY AND PLAT AS ITS OWN SUBDIVISION WITH 14 LOTS.

IS SITE IS 175 SOUTH RANGE LINE ROAD, AND C 2, MIXED USE, AND JIM SHINAVER AND DON BY NELSON

AND FRANK ENBURGER. >> THANK YOU. >> FOR THE RECORD, JON

DOBOS DOBOSIEWICZ. >> AND WE HAVE -- HERE AND THE CARMEL REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION AND THE LOWER ORGANIZATION HAVE FILED TO EMPTY THE PLATS AND THE PLAT APPROVAL FOR MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT IN THE HEART OF MIDTOWN CARMEL FACING RANGE LINE AND 11 TOWNHOMES TO THE EAST TOWARDS FIRST AVENUE SOUTHEAST AND THE GARAGE ARE INTERNALLY TO THE SITE TO THE WEST. THE SITE IS OUTLINED IN YELLOW. THE REAL ESTATE THAT IS THE SUBJECT OF THE PLAT VACATION CONSISTS OF 8 PARCELS AND CURRENTLY OWNED BY THE CR C AND CONSIST OF TWO ACRES. AND REZONE APPROVALS WHICH WAS IN JANUARY, THE REAL ESTATE IS ZONED C 2, MIXED USE DISTRICT IN APRIL THE SITE PLAN WENT IN FRONT OF THE HEARING OFFICER.

FOR THE BOARD OF DEZONE OF -- A RECEIVED VARIANCE APPROVAL. >> THE PLAT VACATION REQUESTS 6 FAR PARCELS, WITH 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, AND 2 WITHIN DAVISON BAILS AND UNDER TAB 3 INFORMATION INCLUDED

[01:40:07]

>> THAT APPROACHED PLAT IS SHOWN HERE. FIRST AVENUE SOUTHEAST, FIRST STREET SOUTHEAST, THIS IS THE LARGER SINGLE BUILDING AND THE 11 TOWNHOME LOTS ALONG FIRST AVENUE. ASSOCIATED WITH THE PLAT APPLICATION AS WAS MENTIONED, THERE ARE TWO WAIVER AQUESTION; ONE IDENTIFIED -- BOTH OF THE CONDITIONS ARE APPLIED TO COMMERCIAL SUBDIVISIONS ACROSS THE JURISDICTIONS. TYPICALLY YOU DON'T SEE COMMERCIAL IN THIS PART OF TOWN AND I UNDERSTAND THEY REVIEWED THE FIRST ON MAIN THAT INCLUDES OPEN SPACE AND OUTSIDE AND THE ONLY REASON WE ARE HERE ABSENT THE PLAT VACATION AS AGREED UPON BY THE DEVELOPER THE 11 TOWNHOME UNITS ARE FEE SIMPLE, SOLD SEPARATELY.

WE WOULDN'T BE HERE WITH THE PLAT AND THE WAIVER REQUEST. >> STAFF GOES IN AND ARTICULATES IN THE STAFF REPORT THE IDEA HERE YOU HAVE A UD O, THAT IS DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS FOR ZONING AND SUBDIVISION REQUIREMENTS FOR SUBDI SUBDIVISIONS, WE HAVE ONE SET OF FINGERS POINTS THIS WAY AND THIS WAY YOU CAN'T GET OUT UNDERNEATH OTHER THAN A WAIVER WHEN YOU HAVE BEEN TO THE BOARD OF APPEALS. I WOULDN'T CALL IT IS A DOUBLE-EDGED SWORD. MANNER RATHER THAN ONE STOP - SHOP, IF YOU WILL.

WE WILL CONCLUDE, BE GLAD TO ADDRESS ANY QUESTIONS. AND WOULD REQUEST THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSIONS SUSPENDING THE RULES AND APPROVING THE MATTERS IF THERE ARE NO OUTSTANDING QUESTIONS THAT YOU WANT TO SEE EXPLORED AT COMMITTEE.

>> THANK YOU. >> PUBLIC HEARING. CAN I SEE A SHOW OF HANDS IF

ANYONE WANTS TO SPEAK. WE HAVE ONE. >> YOU MUST SPEAK FROM THE MIC.

FOLKS WATCHING AT HOME CAN HEAR YOU AND TEXT YOU THAT THEY SEE YOU ON TV.

>> I WILL DO THAT. I DIDN'T TELL ANYBODY I WAS GOING TO SPEAK.

I AM DIANE -- I LIVE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. WE HAVE A BUSINESS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. RIGHT DOWN THE STREET. I APPRECIATE WHAT YOU WERE SAYING, AS A NON LAWYER, I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND HALF OF IT. I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOU ARE ASKING, ACTUALLY, I'M A LITTLE BIT ON THE BEHIND SCENE. THERE WERE A FEW OTHER HEARINGS.

ONE WAS AT 10:30 IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY. I WAS WORKING.

COULDN'T MAKE IT. I'M COMING IN A LITTLE BIT LATE. SPEAKING AS A BUSINESS OWNER AND WE HAD SOME OF YOU MAY HAVE BEEN HERE, WE HAVE JUMPED HOOPS AND MADE ACCOMMODATIONS.

WE HAVE A BLOCK UP ON THE EAST SIDE, AND I KNOW THAT WE CAN'T EVEN DO A PATIO IN FRONT BECAUSE OF THE RESTRICTIONS. AND ALSO KNOWING THAT THE CORNER ON RANGE LINE, I SPEAK FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE AND THE BACKLASH. THERE ARE NO TREES, THERE'S TONS OF TRAFFIC.

I CAN WALK FASTER THAN I CAN GET FROM ONE END OF MAIN STREET. WE CHOSE TO LIVE TO A HIGH DENSITY. THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT CAN'T BE GREEN.

THERE ARE A LOT OF BIG BUSINESSES, BIG MONEY. SEVEN LAWYERS TO REPRESENT ONE CASE. THAT'S A LOT. I WILL SPEAK AND SAY SAVE SOME OF THE GREEN SPACES. IF YOU CHOP DOWN THE TREES, YOU ARE LOOKING FOR A CLOSER

[01:45:06]

I WOULD SAY THE PIECE OF PROPERTY, TO GREEK PIZZA, CAN SOMEONE CONVERT THAT TO A PARK? SOMEONE NEEDS TO BE ACCOUNTABLE. BEFORE YOU KNOW IT, YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO DRIVE DOWN MAIN STREET.

YOU CAN'T RIGHT NOW. AT 4 O'CLOCK, I TAKE SIDE STREETS FROM ONE END TO THE NEXT, IT IS BUMPER TO BUMPER. SO, PROPERLY, MY VOTE, LET'S COUNT IT.

PUT TREES IN. BECAUSE I HONESTLY IF YOU LOOK AROUND, I LOVE THE DEVELOPMENT, THAT'S WHY WE CHOSE TO LIVE HERE. IF I HAD TO BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR EACH TREES LESS THAN A BLOCK UP, WE ARE PRETTY MUCH ON THE SAME BLOCK, I COULDN'T CHOP DOWN A TREE UNLESS IT WAS DEAD. I DON'T HAVE A LAWYER. I WANT TO HOLD SOMEBODY ACCOUNTABLE. BEING IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. BECAUSE ONCE IT IS GONE, IT IS GONE. SO, YOU REPRESENTED A FEW DIFFERENT ONES.

YOU MUST KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND HALF OF IT.

YOU ALL DO SO. I WILL PUT THAT TOWARDS YOU. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. >> IS THERE ANYBODY WHO WISHES TO SPEAK?

>> JOHN? YOU CARE TO RESPOND. YOU MAY.

>> YES. IN FRONT OF THE PLANNING OCESS - COMMISSION IS A PLAT VACATION.

IF YOU SEE ALL OF THE LINES THAT INCLUDED THE FORMER ALLEYS THAT GOES TO THE SIDE AS WELL AS THE INDIVIDUAL LOTS, THE PLAT VACATION ELIMINATES THAT, THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO PUT THE PUBLIC ON NOTICE TO REMOVE THE ALLEY WAYS AND IT WAS BY THE BOARD OF WORKS A FEW WEEKS AGO AND THE INDIVIDUAL LOT LINES WILL DISAPPEAR BECAUSE NO ADDITIONAL LOTS ARE DEVELOPED FOR THAT MANNER AND THAT'S THE PLAT VACATION AND THE PLAT IS TO ACCOMMODATE I HAVE A COPY OF THE LANDSCAPE PLAN HERE. I THOUGHT A QUESTION THAT MAY COME UP.

THIS IS UNDER 9 OR 10. IT IS UNDER 10. I HAVE HIGHLIGHTED IN GREEN WHERE THERE IS LESS THAN LANDSCAPING -- LANDSCAPING, THERE IS A LANDSCAPE STRIP IN UNDER THE ORDINANCE THAT FACES FIRST AVENUE AND SUPPLY STREET AND FIRST STREET SOUTHEAST.

AND BUT THERE IS NO 10 FOOT WIDE LANDSCAPING STRIP ALONG THE PRIMARY BUILDING OR ALONG RANGE LINE ROAD AS IS INDICATIVE UP AND DOWN MAIN STREET AND IN SECTION OF RANGE LINE WITH THE INDIANA DESIGN CENTER. HOWEVER, THERE WILL BE STREET TREES PLANTED WITHIN THE RIGHT OF WAY AND IN ADDITION PLANTING BEDS, YOU CAN SEE HERE IN THE FRONTAGE.

IT IS NOT A 10-FOOT PARAMETER. AS WAS MENTIONED BY THE LADY WHO CAME UP.

THERE WAS A HEARING WE SENT A SIMILAR NOTICE REGARDING THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN AND THE VARIANCES THAT WERE CONSIDERED A FEW WEEKS AGO. I DIDN'T GO INTO THOSE DETAILS BECAUSE THAT'S THE ROLE OF THE HEARING OFFICER ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND -- SIDE WHICH IS DIFFERENT THAN THIS EVENING WHICH IS STRICTLY RELATED HOW ARE WE SUB-DIVIDING THE REAL ESTATE SO WE CAN SELL FEE SIMPLE AND PAY FOR IT CORRECTLY, THE TOWNHOMES.

>> THANK YOU. >> REPORT FROM THE DEPARTMENT. THANK YOU.

>> CAN YOU HEAR ME OKAY? >> AS WAS STRAIGHTENE-STATED WA APPROVED FOR THE REVIEW PROCESS.

THY WENT THROUGH THAT APPROPRIATE REVIEW PROCESS FOR THE BUILDINGS, THE SITE PLAN THAT HAS 2 STORY OFFICE BUILDING AND 11 TOWNHOMES TO THE EAST. AND 101-SPACE PARKING LOT.

TONIGHT AS MENTIONED WE ARE HERE TO TALK ABOUT THE PLAT VACATION TO SEPARATE THE LOT AND

[01:50:04]

SOMETIMES WE HEAR RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISIONS THAT COME THROUGH FOR PLATS AND ALL OF THE STANDARDS ARE MET BESIDE THE TWO ITEMS THAT HAVE THE WAIVERS FOR THIS EVENING.

THOSE INCLUDE COMMERCIAL SUBDIVISIONS DO REQUIRE IN THE 10 PERCENT OPEN SPACE AND SO 10 FOOT WIDE LANDSCAPING, IT IS SURROUNDED BY 4 STREETS. IT IS 10-FOOT LANDSCAPING ALONG THE STREETS. THIS IS NEWER, WHEN WE ADOPTED THE UD O, AND IT IS MEANT FOR URBAN STYLE, AND MAYBE IF IT WAS MICHIGAN ROAD AND A BRAND NEW DEVELOPMENT NOT NECESSARILY FOR

THIS URBAN IN-FILL DEVELOPMENT. >> AND AS WAS STATED AND SHOWN THERE IS LANDSCAPING ON THE SITE AND ALONG THE PARAMETER, NOT ENOUGH TO MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE UD O.

THE DEPARTMENT IS IN SUPPORT OF THE WAIVERS, WE BELIEVE THIS SUBDIVISION WILL CLEAN UP THE LOT LINES OLDER PLAT LINES OLDER SUBDIVISIONS AND ALLOW THE SEPARATE OWNERSHIP FOR EACH P PARCEL. AND ONE FINAL COMMENT THAT STAFF HAD ACCESS MEANT, IT IS A EGRESS AND INDEGREES AND ASKING FOR APPROVAL AFTER YOU HAVE DISCUSSED IT.

THAFR YOU. >> THANK YOU. >> THAT CLOSES THE PUBLIC

HEARING AT 7:54. >> PLANNING COMMISSION, DISCUSSION.

>> MR. PRESIDENT, MAY I GO? THANK YOU, SIR. >> CAN WE DUMB THIS DOWN, DIANE ASKED FOR IT. YOU ARE WELCOME. OKAY.

I'M NOT GREAT AT READING THESE. AM I GETTING THERE IS 23 TREES BEING PROPOSED?

IF YOU DON'T MIND INDULGING ME. >> I ASSUME YOU HAVE COUNTED CORRECTLY.

I DON'T HAVE IT COMMITTED TO MEMORY. >> THERE ARE TREES ON ALL FOUR SIDES. THE LITTLE DOTS WITH THE CIRCLE. I LOOKED AT THE GI S, THERE ARE 9 TREES RIGHT NOW. I WANT TO KEEP THAT IN CONTEXT FOR ONE SECOND.

I ALSO HEARD STAFF SAY THAT THE 10-FOOT REQUIREMENT WAS IN A CONCEPT THAT THERE WERE NOT THINKING ABOUT A SITE LIKE THIS. THERE WERE THINKING ABOUT BUILDING THE BRIDGING ON THE WEST SIDE OF TOWN OR A DIFFERENT SCENARIO. I THINK WHAT HE IS POINTING OUT, THERE IS A FAIR AMOUNT OF LANDSCAPING WHERE WE EXPECT TO SEE ADJACENT TO RESIDENTS AND IT IS LIKE WHAT WE WOULD SEE ACROSS THE STREET THAT'S ALL I HAD.

I WANTED DIANE TO UNDERSTAND THE CONTEXT. AND YOU TOOK THE TIME TO COME HERE. AND YOU AND I CAN TALK AFTERWARDS IF YOU WANT TO.

>> JON, CAN YOU PUT UP TAB 9. I THINK THAT MAY EVEN BETTER -- SHOW THE LANDSCAPING CONCEPT.

WHILE YOU ARE DOING THAT. CHRISTINE? >> JOSH, I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT THIS UP. WHEN IT WENT THROUGH THE CR C PROCESS AND CITY COUNCIL, IT WAS A BIG CONCERN OF ALL OF NEIGHBORS, MAYBE THE FIRST DRAFT WAS THE TOWNHOMES WERE RIGHT UP

ON THE SIDEWALKS. WAS IT ADJUSTED AND MOVED BACK? >> ABSOLUTELY.

>> I HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF RELIEF I WAS EXPECTING TO SEE IT UP AGAINST THE SIDEWALKS.

I AM GLAD TO SEE THAT YOU MOVED IT BACK. IT WAS A CONCERN OF ALL OF THE F NEIGHBORS AND RIGHTLY SO. WE CAN DRILL DOWN INTO THE

[01:55:02]

>> I DON'T THINK MY 23 CROWN IS RIGHT. I THINK IT IS MORE.

YEAH. >> IT MAY BE THE TREES THAT ARE IDENTIFIED IN RED WERE NOT CLEAR -- WELL, IF YOU ARE NOT LOOKING AT IT ON YOUR COMPUTER SCREEN AND ZOOM IN TIGHT, YOU CAN'T SEE

IT. >> I THINK YOU ANSWERED MY QUESTION.

GREEN IS A TREE.

ARE TREES AND THE RED ARE ORNAMENT TREES AND A SCREENING WALL THAT HELPS TO SHIELD THE

PARKING AND THE DUMPSTER FROM THE STREET. >> MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND, WHAT

YOU POINTED THOSE ARE EVERGREENS. >> THEY ARE AN EVERGREEN.

>> THEY ARE EVERGREENS. I KNOW WHAT THEY ARE. THOSE ARE EVERGREEN.

THE GREEN THINGS ARE TREES. >> SHADE TREES. >> AND RED ARE ORNAMENTALES AND

IS -- >> DOG WOOD. THAT IS LOWER GROWING, THAT IS

NOT GOING TO GET IN FRONT OF THE DWELLINGS. >> IN LIGHT OF THE QUESTIONS, IT MAY BE CLEAR TO WHOEVER IS LISTENING. I APPRECIATE THE DESIGN WAS CHANGE. AND YOU ENTER THE HOMES ON THE RIGHT.

ON THE EAST. YOU ENTER OFF OF FIRST AVENUE. SO, THOSE ARE ALL DRIVEWAYS.

RIGHT? >> RIGHT. EAST ON FIRST STREET, YOU WOULD TURN INTO THE PARKING FIELD AND WITHIN EACH OF THE 11 TOWNHOMES. THERE IS A GARAGE.

ACCESSES THAT BE CREATED. WE CAN TALK TO THE PETITIONER. THIS IS NOT THE FINAL PLAT.

THIS IS THE PRELIMINARY. WE WILL IDENTIFY THE INGRESS AND EGRESS AND IT WILL SPELL OUT HOW

PEOPLE HAVE TO PARTICIPATE IN FUTURE AREA. >> OKAY.

I WANTED TO MAKE SURE IT WASN'T BEING LEFT OUT. >> THE MOTION IS TO SUSPEND THE RULES AND APPROVE THIS DOCKET. BECAUSE THE MOTION INCLUDES THE SUSPENDING THE RULES, IT DOES

REQUIRE 6 VOTES. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. >> ANY OPPOSED?

ALL RIGHT. THE MOTION CARRIES BY 7-0 VOTE. >> THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME THIS

[I. Old Business]

EVENING. >> THANK YOU, JON. >> TURNING TO OLD BUSINESS.

DOCKET DOCKET NUMBER PZ-2023- 000 -- THE ASIDE IS LOCATED AT 12164 NORTH MEDICAL CENTER INCIDENT STREET, IMMEDIATELY NORTH OF THE RITZ AND THERE IS NO OVER LAY DISTRICT.

THE PETITION IS FILED NATHAN, DORA HOTEL GROUP. NATHAN?

[02:00:05]

>> WILL INTRODUCE MYSELF. I'M NATHAN, I AM WITH THE WIN SLOW GROUP, WE HAVE TALKED A LOT ABOUT THIS AND IT IS NORTH OF THE RITZ CHARLES NORTH, PROPOSES A FIVE STORY HOTEL SHARED PARKING ACCESS, WHAT HAVE YOU. WITH A MEDICAL OFFICE BUILDING IMMEDIATELY TO THE NORTH AND THE RITZ CHARLES TO THE SOUTH. ONE OF THE ITEMS THAT CAME TO THE LIGHT WAS THE BUILDING, THE VISUAL APPEAL, THE CHECKER BOARD AND BRIGHT COLORS. WE HAVE MET WITH STAFF SEVERAL TIMES AND WHAT I WILL DESCRIBE AS A TONE DOWN COLOR PALLET THAT IS LIKE CARMEL AND THE COLORS THAT ARE OUT THERE. AGAIN, I WORKED WITH STAFF TO CREATE A BETTER OVERALL AS ANESTHETIC INCOMBUILDING AND TH AMOUNT OF THE GLAZING ON THE LOWER LEVEL.

IF YOU READ THE PACKET THAT I PROVIDED, THERE ARE ADDITIONAL ARCHITECTURAL LANGUAGE AND WHY THE GLAZING THAT WAS PROHIBITED AND THE UTILITY ROOMS ON THAT BUILDING NOT CONDUCIVE FOR THE GLAZING THAT IS NECESSARY. SO, THAT WAS ONE OF THE BIG ITEMS. I WILL HIGHLIGHT A COUPLE OF VISUALS, GIVE YOU SOME GENERAL CONTEXT THERE.

I'M NOT GOING TO GO INTO GREAT DETAIL ON THIS NOW. I WILL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS. AGAIN, YOU HAVE BE GRACIOUS WITH YOUR TIME.

AND I WANT TO BE MINDFUL OF THAT. LANDSCAPING, WE HAVEN'T CHANGED.

AND ONE OF THE QUESTIONS WITH THE COMMERCIAL COMMITTEE IS WHAT WE ARE DOING WITH THE ADDITIONAL LANDSCAPING AND SOME OF THE ISLANDS SEPARATING TO THE WEST AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE LANDSCAPE PLAN, THERE IS A PRETTY SIZEABLE PARKING LOT OF WHAT YOU ARE SEEING ON THE SCREEN, THERE IS A GRASS MEDIAN AND ADDED TREES TO BUFFER THAT FOR THE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES AND AS WELL AS THE LAND ESCAPING IMMEDIATELY AROUND THE BUILDING -- LANDSCAPING.

>> WITH THAT, I THINK THAT COVERS MOST OF THE MAIN ITEMS THAT I HAD.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU WANT TO ADD AT THIS POINT? I HAVE VINCE FROM DORA. HE IS THE OWNER AND DEVELOPER. HE IS AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS AS

WELL. >> I WILL TURN IT OVER TO STAFF AT THIS POINT.

>> I WILL GO TO THE COMMITTEE REPORT. >> I WILL BE HAPPY TO DO IT.

>> SO, WE KEPT THIS AT COMMITTEE FOR 5 MEETINGS. I WON'T GO OVER ALL OF THE DETAILS BECAUSE WE ALL HAVE COPIES OF THE REPORT. I ASSUME YOU HAVE READ THOSE DETAILS. LET ME BOIL THIS DOWN; THE PETITIONER HAS POINTED OUT A LOT OF THINGS WE HAVE WORKED ON. THE COMMITTEE WAS PRETTY ADAMANT MUTING THE COLOR AND TURNING IT DOWN A LITTLE BIT. ULTIMATELY, WE PUT THIS BACK TO THE FULL COMMISSION BUT WE HAVE SOME RESERVE ABOUT THE SHARED PARKING SCENARIO. SO, TO KIND OF BRING THE REST OF THE COMMISSION UP TO SPEED ABOUT THE PARKING SCENARIO FOR ONE SECOND WITHOUT TALKING A LOT AND FOR OR AGAINST IT. RITZ HAS A SHARED PARKING AGREEMENT THAT WAS ESTABLISHED WITH THE HOTEL TO THE SOUTH. RITZ IS GETTING INTO A SHARED PARKING AGREEMENT WITH THIS HOTEL AND THE OTHER BUILDING THERE AS WELL. MEDICAL --

>> YEAH, YEAH. >> IN ADDITION TO THAT, RITZ HAS CHANGED THEIR PARKING SCENARIO IN THAT -- THEY SEEM TO HAVE A LOT OF VEHICLES BEING STORED ONSITE NOW THAT MAY BE USED TO

[02:05:01]

TO BRING THIS TO A HEAD, THE PETITIONERS IS ABOUT 10 SPOTS SHORT.

WE ASKED THEM. >> -- DID I LEAVE ANYTHING OUT? IS THAT --?

>> ARE YOU SPEAKING TO ME? >> YES, PLEASE. >> I HAVE -- BECAUSE I WAS THE ONLY NO VOTE. I WANT TO EXPLAIN WHY I VOTED NO.

>> THAT'S GREAT. THAT IS THE EXTENT OF THE REPORT.

>> THANKS, JOSH. >> THE DEPARTMENT REPORT. >> STAFF HAS WORKED WITH PETITIONER IN THE COMMITTEES HAS WORKED WITH THE PETITIONER TO THE CHANGES IN THE ARCHITECTURE AND CHANGES TO THE BUILDING MATERIAL, MORE BRICK AND LESS -- AND THE REDUCTION OF COLOR BANDS ON THE NORTH AND SOUTH SIDES. COORDINATED BRICK-BASE COLOR THAT GOES WITH THE COLORS AND IS LONG-TERM BIKE PARKING AND LIGHTING AND ADDITIONAL TREES WERE ADDED TO THE GRASS AREA TO THE WEST OF THE PARKING LOT TO ADD MORE BUFFER WHEN THE TREES GROW TO THE NEIGHBORS TO THE WEST. THE MAJOR REMAINING COMMENT WAS RELATED TO PARKING AS JOSH MENTIONED WAS DISCUSSED AND THE PROPOSED NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES TONIGHT.

THAT WAS 10 LESS THAN THE ORIGINAL PLAN. IT ALLOWS SHARED PARKING WANT 10 -- AND TALK ABOUT THE DEVELOPMENTS SUCH AS THE OFFICE DEVELOPMENT FOR SHARED PARKING.

HOWEVER, IF THIS CANNOT BE DONE, THEY CAN REQUEST A VARIANCE AND WOULD NEED TO DO SO TO COMPLY WITH THE ORDINANCE. AND THE PLAN COMMISSION COULD APPROVE THIS TONIGHT CONTINGENT UPON THAT VARIANCE. THEY DON'T THINK 10 SPACES WILL MAKE OR BREAK THIS AS DUE TO A LOT OF PARKING AND THE FEW TIMES OF THE YEAR THAT EVERYTHING MAY BE COMPLETELY FULL ON THIS SITE.

SO, IF YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS AFTER THOSE HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED, I SAY TO APPROVE THE ITEM AND THE OTHERS MENTIONED IN THE REPORT AND FINAL APPR APPRO

APPROVEMENTS. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU.

>> SO WE WILL START WITH YOU. >> WHEN I ORIGINALLY REASON I SAY NO, IT WAS THE PAINTING.

NO ONE HAS A BLUE CANOPY OR A BIKE SHORTAGE THAT IS BLUE OR ANY OTHER THAT IS LIKE THE REST OF THE BUILDING. AND SO, THAT CLEARLY IS PART OF THE TRU HOTEL BRANDING.

AND I DON'T LIKE THE COLORS BEING INTRODUCED THERE AGAIN AFTER WE HAD THESE CONVERSATIONS WE THOUGHT THERE WERE GONE AND THEY HAVE BEEN BROUGHT BACK IN. IT IS AN EXPENSIVE HOTEL.

YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE PEOPLE THAT HAVE THE ADDRESS, YOU DON'T NEED TO BRAND THE BUILDING SO IT LOOKS LIKE THE OTHER TRU HOTELS. IT IS UNACCEPTABLE. AND IT IS NOT NECESSARY.

NO OTHER ARCHITECT WOULD SELECT THAT THE BLUE, IT IS ONLY BECAUSE IT IS TRU HOTEL.

>> SO SEGWAY, I WASN'T IN COMMITTEE. I WILL ASK; DO YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE BLUE? YOU MAY HAVE DISCUSSED IT DEATH. I DON'T KNOW.

I DON'T THINK IT IS ATTRACTIVE. I WANT TO KNOW WHY. >> GOOD EVENING, LADIES AND

GENTLEMEN. I AM VINCE FROM DORA. >> I DON'T BELIEVE THE BLUE IS

[02:10:04]

ENTRYWAY AND VISIBILITY. >> IT WAS ENCOURAGED BY STAFF AND COMMITTEE?

OKAY. >> YOU DO HAVE SIGNS, THOUGH. >> NO, THERE'S NO SIGNS ON THAT

SIDE OF THE BUILDING. >> THERE IS ON 31? >> IN 31.

>> THERE IS LIGHTING HERE. >> VERY MINIMAL. WE WERE TRYING TO WORK WITH OUR NEIGHBORS TO THE WEST, NEIGHBORHOOD. THERE WERE SAYING LESS LIGHTING FACING THAT LIGHTING. WE TRIED TO MINIMIZE ON THAT SIDE OF THE BUILDING.

>> WHAT HAPPENED WHEN YOU TALKED TO THE MEDICAL BUILDING AND WANTING 10 MORE PARKING SPACES?

>> I TALKED TO THEM AND WE REACHED OUT AND I TALKED TO SOMEONE IN PERSON TODAY, THEY ARE WANTING TO BE GOOD NEIGHBORS AND WORKING WITH US. THEY HAVE FUTURE PLANS FOR THAT TOTAL LOT TO DEVELOP MORE BUILDINGS AND UNWILLING TO WORK WITH US ON A PERMANENT GOING

FORWARD BASIS. >> WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT ELIMINATING 10 OF THE ROOMS? I WOULD SAY GET RID OF THE FIFTH FLOOR? CAN YOU DO THAT?

>> UNFORTUNATELY, NO. THE NUMBERS DO NOT WORK. AND THE CONSTRUCTION PORTION OF

THE BUDGET EXCEEDS THE COST FROM THREE YEARS AGO. >> THE BLUE CAN GO?

>> YES. >> MAYBE SOMEONE CAN GO ON. >> I DON'T RECALL IF THE BLUE

STAYS. >> I WILL HAPPY TO RUN IT UP THE FLAG POLE.

WE WERE ENCOURAGED TO STAFF. >> LISTEN, WE HAVE BEEN RUN UP THE FLAG POLE WITH THIS HILTON THING. THIS IS RIDICULOUS. YOU MAKE A DECISION OR YOU GET DENIED. SOONER OR LATER YOU HAVE TO MAKE A COMMITMENT! WE HAVE THREE OR FOUR, FIVE METINGS, THEY MAKE -- MAKE IT BROWN LIKE THE REST OF THE

CANOPY AND WE'LL GO ON WITH THE >> I THINK, MR., DORA, THE COMMITTEE IS WE ARE AT A POINT THAT THIS IS YOUR BEST AND FINAL OFFER. THIS IS THE DECISION NIGHT.

IF YOU ARE MAKING THE CHANGES, GREAT, THEY MAY BE HELPFUL. IF CHANGES CAN'T BE MADE, THAT

WILL BE MADE THE BASIS ON THE DECISION TONIGHT. >> SURE.

>> TAKE THESE COMMENTS INTO CONSIDERATION IN THAT CONTEXT. >> DEBBY?

>> I'M GOING TO SPEAK PLAINLY. I CAME TO THE FIRST COMMERCIAL COMMITTEE MEETING EVEN THOUGH I WASN'T ON THE COMMITTEE. AND I AGREE, I THOUGHT IT WAS PRETTY CLEAR THAT THE COLOR WAS AN ISSUE. I WANT TO LOOK TO STAFF, WHAT YOU WERE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH TO

MAKE IT RECOGNIZABLE WHEN YOU WALK INTO THE BUILDING? >> I DON'T RECALL ASKING FOR THAT COLOR. IF THEY WERE PROPOSED, MAYBE YOU DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT.

MAYBE THERE WERE SUPPORTED FOR HELPING PEOPLE TO LOCATE. WE DIDN'T SPECIFICALLY ASK THEM TO PUT THE COLORS ON THE CANOPIES. WITH ALL OF THE OTHER CHANGES THAT WERE MADE, WE WERE COMFORTABLE AT THOSE AT THE LOWER LEVEL, FIRST FLOOR, AND NOT VISIBLE AN THE FIVE STORIES OF THE BUILDING. WE WERE MAKING THE COMPROMISE ON THOSE COLORS. SO, IF TONIGHT'S DO OR DIE, AM I SENSING THAT THE COMMISSION WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOMETHING OTHER THAN AN I WILL SAY GARISH BLUE.

I'M NOT OPPOSED TO BLUE, COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE BUILDING, IT IS KIND OF GARISH.

IT IS GARISH. >> CAN THAT CHANGE? MAYBE IT IS MY TEAM AND MY

[02:15:03]

CHANGE. >> AND CHANGING, I'M NOT SUGGESTING IT GO TO A BRIGHT LIME OR ORANGE. I AM -- IT CAN GO TO A, I GUESS A NEUTRAL COLOR.

I'M LOOKING AT LEO -- >> DEBBY AND LEO, IS THAT A QUESTION OR THIS ALL 7 OF US ARE COMFORTABLE DELEGATED TO THE DEPARTMENT TO RESOLVE? I WOULD, AS LONG AS IT IS NOT, I

WILL USE THE WORD GARISH, THROW IT OUT THERE. >> I WILL, AS LONG AS IT MATCH THE BRANDING COLOR. THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE TRYING TO ACHIEVE.

THEY ARE TRYING TO MAKE A BIG BILLBOARD, FOLKS! .

LET'S GET REAL. WE DON'T WANT A BIG BILLBOARD. YOU MAKE IT WHITE OR BROWN, THOSE ARE NOT THE ENTRANCES. THAT IS A BIKE SHORTAGE LOCATION THAT IS PAINTED BLUE! THE ONE IS THE OUTDOOR BIKE SHORTAGE. I WILL SPEAK TO OUR MEMBER THAT WANTED THE BIKE SHORTAGE. I BELIEVE THAT'S THE BLUE STRUCTURE THERE, CORRECT?

>> PART OF IT. THE WHOLE THING IS THE MAIN ENTRANCE AND THE ADDITIONAL BIKE SHORTAGE. THAT BLUE SHORTAGE IS BIKE SHORTAGE?

>> PART OF IT, YES. >> IT RUNS BEHIND THE OTHER CANOPY; THE BLUE DOES?

>> YES. >> IT MAKES IT EVEN WORSE. >> WE ALL DEGREE ON THE COLOR.

>> AND THE COLOR PALLET OF THE REST OF THE HOTEL, EXTERIOR. >> IT IS MORE LIKE A NEUTRAL COLOR, NOT ONE OF THE COLORS THEY TONED DOWN IN THE BAN EITHER?

IT NEEDS TO BE A MORE NEUTRAL? >> THAT'S THE WILL OF THE COMMISSION.

>> IF THEY COME BACK WITH THE BLUE THAT IS NOT AS BRIGHT OR THE -- BAND.

>> THE GREEN, MUSTARD, IS THE WILL OF THE COMMISSION IS. >> I GET IT.

I AM NOT HUNG UP ON THE NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES. THEY ARE HERE SOMEPLACE.

WHAT I NEED TO HAVE EXPLAINED TO ME, IN THE PROPOSED SOURCING, PLUS OR MINUS 10 PARKING SPACES AS PROPOSED, WHERE EXACTLY ARE THE SPACES? I SAW THE AGREEMENT FROM CORNERSTONE THAT DESCRIBED WHICH SPACES DON'T COUNT, ON THE NORTH SIDE, SOME ALONG THE SOUTH SIDE.

HELP ME UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHERE THE SPACES ARE LOCATED WITHIN THIS OVERALL SITE.

TRU, THE RITZ, POSSIBLY THE HYATT PLACE. >> HOW DO WE GET TO 130 PLUS

PARKING PLACES? >> SURE. >> FOR CLARIFICATION WHERE ALL OF THE PARKING SPACES. I'M CONCERNED ABOUT WHERE IT IS, NOT HOW MUCH IT IS.

UNDERSTOOD. >> WE WILL GET UP HERE. SO, THE SHARED PARKING WITH THE RITZ, I APOLOGIZE IF IT EXTENTS BEYOND THAT. AND RITZ SHARED PARKING IS GENERALLY THIS PERFORMANCE HERE TO THE WEST. THERE'S A GRASS MEDIAN CURRENTLY THAT SEPARATES THE TRU HOTEL, MEDICAL OFFICES FROM THE REST OF THE PARKING LOT.

THAT GRASS MEDIAN WILLING VEGETATION, WE WILL HAVE TREES TO HELP BUFFER THAT.

THAT IS RITZ SHARED PARKING. TE MEDICAL OFFICE BUILDING ESSENTIALLY COMES IN AS

[02:20:07]

AND LIMITED TIME SENSITIVE SHARED PARKING IS THE PARKING ALONG THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE MEDICAL OFFICE BUILDING THERE. AND THE BALANCE OF THE PARKING IS EVERYTHING THAT IS INTERNAL TO THE HOTEL PARCEL, IF YOU WILL. INTERNAL TO THE HOTEL SPECIFIC PARKING. LOOK AT MY NOTES HERE. I CALCULATED THAT OUT.

I BELIEVE THERE ARE 37 SPACES SPECIFICALLY WITHIN THAT HOTEL PARCEL.

THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE THE PARKING ALONG THE SOUTH FACE OF THAT HOTEL.

SEEMINGLY THAT IS APART OF THAT HOTEL. BUT IS APART OF THE RITZ ITSELF.

THERE ARE 92 SPACES SPECIFICALLY ON THIS MEDICAL OFFICE BUILDING PARCEL.

THE REMAINDER IS ON THIS WEST SIDE. >> NONE O WHICH IS ON THE NORTH

SIDE OF THE M OB. >> THAT 92 SPACES DOES INCLUDE 17 OR 20 SPACES FOR THE MOB.

THIS IS SHARED PARKING, SO THE USES ARE SHARED. THEY ARE -- OKAY. GOOD. BECAUS IS SEPARATED. THAT WOULD BE CHALLENGING. SO, I THINK WHAT I CAN SEE NOW IS THAT THE SPACES THAT YOU HAVE UNDER CONTROL THROUGH VARIOUS AGREEMENTS ARE ESSENTIALLY VISIBLE TO A HOTEL GUEST FROM YOUR FRONT ENTRANCE, YOUR PORCH IS SHARED. THERE IS LIME SITE TO ALL THOSE PARKING SPACES, NOTHING HIDDEN OR TUCKED AROUND THE FAR SIDE OF A BUILDING THA

IS A WALL OF TREES -- >> THAT IS CORRECT.

>> OKAY. >> BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO PARK AT THE FIRST EMPTY SPOT THEY SEE IRRESPECTIVE OF ANY LEGAL DOCUMENT IN THE COUNTY COURTHOUSE.

>> ABSOLUTELY. >> MR. PRESIDENT?

>> WE ARE WITHIN 10 SPACE -- WITH THAT COUNT, WE ARE WITHIN 10 SPACES OF THE CITY DICTATED MINIMUM REQUIREMENT.

>> I BELIEVE THAT IS ACCURATE. YES.

>> OKAY. THANK YOU. JOSH? >> MR. PRESIDENT, IN COMMITTEE POINTED OUT THAT IT FELT TO ME LITTLE BIT LIKE RITZ WAS IN KIND OF A PONZI SCHEME WITH PARKING. IN THAT THERE IS -- YOU CAN SEE IN THIS EXHIBIT . I THINK THIS IS THE EXHIBIT WHERE I COUNTED THERE IS 18 VEHICLES OCCUPYING 38 PARKING SPACES WHICH IS AN ISSUE. THAT RITZ SEEMS TO BE MAKING AGREEMENTS ABOUT PARKING THAT IS JUST NOT AVAILABLE. AND, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN GO TO THE BCA AND GET THEIR VARIANCE, BUT I SEE A COMPOUNDING PARKING PROBLEM HER . AS THE DIRECTOR POINTED OUT, IT'S NOT OUR PROBLEM TO FIX. WHEN THE HYATT CAME TO ME AS A COMMISSIONER ON THE PROJECT, THEY SAID , WHEN WE FIGURED OUT THE NUMBER OF SPOTS WE NEEDED, HE ADMITTED BE CALCULATED INCORRECTLY. AND NOW, THE RITZ HAS CANNIBALIZED THE PARKING LO WITH THEIR OWN STUFF. NOW THEY ARE GIVING AWAY MORE SPOTS. I RESPECTFULLY DON'T AGREE WITH STAFFS ASSESSMENT THAT THIS IS A PROBLEM THAT IS ONLY GOING TO COME TO FRUITION A FEW TIMES A YEAR. I THINK THAT IT IS A PROBLEM. AND IT'S GOING TO BE COMPOUNDED A FEW TIMES A YEAR. SO THAT IS IT. I DON'T WANT TO

[02:25:03]

MORE BAD SITUATIONS. >> NO, I COMPLETELY AGREE. AND I DON'T WANT ANY OF THE THREE PROPERTY OWNERS HERE , OR BUSINESS OWNERS TO ENTER INTO AGREEMENTS JUST TO CLEAR A HURDLE WITH THIS BODY OR WITH THE DEPARTMENT THAT ULTIMATELY PROVES DETRIMENTAL TO THE SUCCESS OF THOSE BUSINESSES .

WHAT WE ARE HEARING FROM THE HYATT IS THEY HAVE ALREADY DONE THAT. BUT THEY ARE NOT THE LAS ONE TO THE TROUGH . TRUE IS.

THE PROBLEM REALLY HASN'T SURFACED UNTIL WE HAVE 126 MORE HOTEL ROOMS , IF I GOT THAT COUNT RIGHT, AT THE NORTH END O THE SITE. AND THAT IS CONCERNIN BECAUSE UNLESS WE CAN BE ASSURED SEVEN DAYS A WEEK, 24 HOURS A DAY THERE IS PARKING FO ALL THREE BUSINESSES, I THINK W RISK DAMAGING ONE IF NOT ALL

THREE BUSINESSES. LEO? >> ADD TO THAT, BRAD AND JOSH'S COMMENTS, WE GET A LOT OF OUT-OF-TOWN VISITORS THAT COME TO THE RITZ. THEN THEY SEE THIS PARKING DISASTER AND IT'S A VER POOR REFLECTION ON OUR COMMUNIT RELATIVE TO OUR ABILITY TO PLA ANYTHING. WHAT THIS SHOULD BE I A BOUTIQUE HOTEL WITH 50% OF TH PLANTS SO THE PARKING IS MORE REPRESENTATIVE OF WHAT THE ROOM COUNT IS . NOW THE ARGUMENT WIL BE THERE IS NEVER ANY NEED.

HOWEVER, THE CARMICHAEL WOULD SUGGEST QUITE THE OPPOSITE GIVE ITS SUCCESS. SOMETIMES, WE HAVE TO MAKE HARD DECISIONS, NOT BAD DECISIONS. WE COULD MAKE A BAD DECISION IF WE WENT THE WRONG WAY WITH THIS, CLEARLY. WE COUL BE MAKING A GOOD DECISION IF WE DECIDED, YOU KNOW, LET'S GO BAC TO THE DRAWING BOARD. SOMETIMES

WE HAVE TO DO THAT. >> CHRISTINE?

>> WELL, WITH RESPECT TO THE PARKING, YOU KNOW, HAS ANYBODY TALKED TO THE RITZ? I KNOW IT I HARD WITH ONLY ONE PETITIONER HERE. IS IS A GLOBAL PROBLEM CAUSED BY MULTIPLE BUSINESSES HERE. THERE IS NO ONE BUSINESS THAT IS GOING TO CURE THE PARKING SOLUTION OUR PROBLEM. HAS ANYONE TALKED TO THE RITZ ABOUT THE WAY THEY ARE PARKING ALL THE VANS, TAKING UP MULTIPL SPOTS? IT SEEMS LIKE THIS IS A BIGGER PROBLEM THAN ONE

BUSINESS. >> I CAN TALK TO THAT A LITTLE BIT IF YOU WOULD INDULGE ME. I KNOW THE DEPARTMENT, DOCS, THAT IS, FEELS THE RITZ TRUCK PARKIN SCENARIO IS A CODE ENFORCEMENT ISSUE. THEY THINK THEY CAN HELP REMEDY SOME OF IT. HOW EFFECTIVE THAT'S GOING TO BE, I DON'T KNOW. THAT IS PART OF IT.

ALSO, IF I COULD JUST TAKE A SECOND, THE DIRECTOR HAS COME T OUR MEETING -- OUR LAST PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING -- OUR LAST COMMITTEE MEETING, NOT ABOUT THAT BUT A DIFFERENT TOPIC. AND HE ADDED THE KIND O BACK POCKET KNOWLEDGE THAT HE A ONE POINT HAD APPROACHED THE RITZ ABOUT TRYING TO DO A PARKING GARAGE HERE USING TIF . AND HE GOT ZERO RESPONSE. HERE IS THE CITY COMING IN TRYING TO BAIL OUT THE SITUATION AND MAKE IT BETTER. I JUST WANTED TO AD THAT PIECE OF KNOWLEDGE. I DON'

HAVE ANYTHING ELSE. >> OTHER DISCUSSION OR A MOTION WANT TO PLAY BALL. BECAUSE THEY HAVE OTHER PLANS. NOBODY WANTS TO GIVE UP PARKING SPOTS. THAT IS RIGHT UNLESS THEY HAVE A FINANCIAL OBLIGATION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I WILL MAK

A MOTION. >> ONE OTHER PIECE OF THAT, NOT TO BELABOR IT, BUT THE CITY EXPLORED PUTTING PARALLEL PARKING ON THE FRONTAGE ROAD IN FRONT OF THESE BOUNDARIES. YET WE ARE STILL TALKING ABOUT A SOLUTION.

>> THAT'S A STATE RIGHT-OF-WAY THERE.

>> WHICH DOESN'T PRECLUDE IT, I MAKES IT DIFFICULT --

>> -- VERY DIFFICULT -- >> AT 8:30 TONIGHT, WE DON'T

HAVE A SOLUTION. >> DO YOU HAVE A MOTION, LEO?

>> I MOVE TRUE HOTEL CARMICHAEL.

>> YUP. >> WHAT? SORRY.

>> TRUE HOTEL. PERIOD. >> CARMICHAEL. I THINK IT'S SUCH A PHENOMENAL LOCATION FOR SECOND ONE --

>> TO GET A VARIANCE IN PARKING AND GET THE CHANGE OF COLOR --

[02:30:02]

>> I WILL SECOND THAT. >> A POINT OF CLARIFICATION -- GOING TO GET RESOLVED HERE. THE PARKING IS THE PARKING.

>> IT WILL END UP HAVING TO BE SORTED OUT ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

SO IT IS -- >> SO DOES THE MOTION INCLUDE REQUEST THAT THE PARKING ISSUE BE RESOLVED BY ANYBODY WITH TH APPROPRIATE AUTHORITY TO DO THAT? IS THAT YOUR MOTION?

>> THAT'S CORRECT. IT'S ON THE PARKING ISSUE. AND ALSO THE CALLER BE SELECTED BY STAFF, NO TO BE ONE OF THE TRUE COLORS.

>> SO THE MOTION DOESN'T NEED T REQUIRE THEM TO GO TO THE BZA

FOR PARKING VARIANCE. >> I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTOOD. OKAY. BECAUSE IT I A BIG CONCERN, I WILL ADD MY TW CENTS. I HAVE WALKED FROM CLARION NORTH TO AN EVENT AT TH RITZ BECAUSE CURRENTLY EVERY PARKING SPACE WAS FILLED. THAT WAS WITHOUT THE ADDITION. ARCING IS A HUGE ISSUE. SOME POINT DOWN THE ROAD, SOMEBODY WILL HAVE TO CONSIDER A PARKING GARAGE. THERE IS NO PLACE TO GO BUT UP.

>> REMEMBER, THEY ARE ONLY GOIN FOR A VARIANCE ON 10 SPOTS. YOU KNOW, ALL THIS IS ON THE VARIANCE.

>> WE HAVE A MOTION ON THE FLOO THAT HAS BEEN DULY SECONDED .

ALL IN FAVOR THE MOTION, SIGNIFIED BY SAYING AYE.

>> THOSE OPPOSED? >> AYE.

>> I THINK I HEARD IT CORRECTLY ALL OF THOSE IN FAVOR, HANDS IN THE AIR. 2. ALL THOSE OPPOSED? 5. THE MOTION FAILS. IS THERE A COMPLEMENTARY MOTION? CORRECT. SERGEI?

>> I RECOMMEND YOU MAKE AN OPPOSITE MOTION.THE RULES OF PROCEDURE FOR COMMISSION IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT THAN BZA.

RIGHT NOW, IF A MOTION FAILS THERE IS NO DENIAL.

>> IS VERY MOTION TO DENY THE PETITION?

>> I MOVED TO DENY THE PETITION

>> I WILL SECOND. >> THANK YOU. IF THERE IS NO DISCUSSION, ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION TO DENY THE PETITION, SIGNIFIED BY SAYING AYE. ANY OPPOSED?

>>

>> I WANT TO SEE IT RESOLVED. BUT --

>> THE NEXT STEP -- >> OKAY, SO -- SO THE ADL S WAS

NOT APPROVED TONIGHT. >> MR. PRESIDENT, WHAT WAS THE

FINAL COUNT? >> 6 TO 1 IN FAVOR OF THE MOTIO

TO DENY. >> IF THERE IS NO OTHER BUSINES FOR THE COMMISSION THIS EVENING

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.