Sep 19, 2023 Carmel Plan Commission

[A. Call Meeting to Order]

[00:00:07]

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>> GOOD EVENING. WELCOME TO THE SEPTEMBER 19 2023 MEETING OF THE CARMEL PLANNING COMMISSION.

I ASKED THAT WE ALL RISE FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.

I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD INDIVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. THANK YOU.

[C. Roll Call]

>>.

[D. Declaration of Quorum]

>> WE HAVE EIGHT OF NINE MEMBERS PRESENT AND A QUORUM EXISTS. I THINK THAT LEO YOU ARE THINKING OF IS LATER ON OUR AGENDA.

[E. Approval of Minutes]

>> MOVED TO APPROVE. >> SECOND.

>> THANK YOU BOTH. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE? ANY OPPOSED? THE MOTION PASSES.

COMMUNICATION, BILLS AND EXPENDITURES FROM LEGAL

COUNSEL. >> NOTHING FROM ME.>> ALRIGHT. WE HAVE TWO PLAN COMMISSION RESOLUTIONS TO HEAR TONIGHT. BRUCE DONALDSON, THE FLOOR IS

YOURS. >> GOOD EVENING.THESE AGAIN COME FROM THE REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION.

THESE ARE RELATIVELY TECHNICAL IN NATURE.

NEITHER OF THEM CHANGES ANY OF THE PROPOSED USES OF THE PROPERTY FOR THESE ALLOCATION AREAS, BUT THE STATUTE REQUIRES THE ANYTIME THE CRC PROPOSES TO MAKE ANY KIND OF AMENDMENT TO THE AREAS, ELASTIC OF THE PROCESS OF PLAN COMMISSION REVIEW AND COUNCIL REVIEW, JUST TO DETERMINE THAT WHATEVER THEY ARE DOING IS STILL CONSISTENT WITH THE PLAN, THE CITY'S COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.THE FIRST ONE, 09 Ã19 Ã23 ÃA THOSE COUPLE OF THINGS. IT RELATES TO WHAT WE CALL THE PROSCENIUM TWO ALLOCATION. IT WAS CREATED BACK IN 2021.

SINCE THAT TIME, THERE HAS BEEN SOME DEMOLITION OF PROPERTY.

SO IF WHAT THE REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION WANTS TO DO IS MOVE WHAT WE CALL THE BASE ASSESSMENT DATE FOR THAT UP TO JANUARY 1 23, WHAT THAT DOES, IT ALLOWS THE REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION TO CAPTURE ALL OF THE ASSESSED VALUE OF THE NEW DEVELOPMENT IN THE TIF AREA. IF WE LEFT THAT THEY STAY WHERE IT IS NOW, THEY WOULD HAVE TO FIRST RESTORE THE LOST SUCCESS VALUE FROM THE DEMOLITION WHICH BASICALLY PUTS THEM IN A HOLE AND HAS A NEGATIVE TIF TO START WITH.

IT IS KIND OF A TECHNICAL START TYPE AMENDMENT.

IT MOVES THE BASE ASSESSMENT DATE TO BASICALLY THIS YEAR WE ARE STARTING AT GROUND ZERO, IF YOU WILL.

THAT IS THE FIRST THING THAT RESOLUTION DOES.

THE SECOND THING IS, IT RELATES TO THE 126TH STREET ALLOCATION AREA. IT SIMPLY REMOVES FOUR PARCELS IDENTIFIED HERE IN BLUE FROM THE 126 STREET ALLOCATION AREA.

THE REASON FOR THAT, THIS IS PROBABLY THE CITY HAS ACTUALLY PURCHASED AND THEY ARE PUTTING IN THE JAPANESE GARDEN.

IT REALLY DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE FOR IT TO ME IN A TIF AREA ANYMORE. IT IS JUST PUBLICLY OWNED PROPERTY. THE SECOND RESOLUTION ÃB, ESSENTIALLY DOES THE EXACT SAME THING I DESCRIBED WITH PROSCENIUM WITH RESPECT TO THE NORTH ALLOCATION AREA.

FRANCISCAN NORTH IS THE AREA NORTH OF FORTE SPORTS MEDICINE, WHETHER URBAN MATERIALS PROJECT IS GOING IN.

IT IS THE EXACT SAME THING, THERE WAS SOME DEMOLITION GOING ON THERETHAT WAS CREATED LAST YEAR.

THEY LIKE TO RESET THE BASE OF THEY START WITH GROUND ZERO IN THE ALLOCATION AREA AS WELL. THAT IS REALLY THE SUBSTANCE OF THOSE TWO RESOLUTIONS. IF YOU ACT FAVORABLY ON THEM TONIGHT, THEY WILL MOVE ON TO THE CITY COUNCIL.

>> THANK YOU, BRUCE. IS THERE A DEPARTMENT REPORT

BEYOND THE COMMENTS: >> NOTHING TO ADD, THANK YOU.

WE WOULD RECOMMEND FAVORABLE CONSIDERATION.

[00:05:04]

>> QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION?

>> NORMALLY, I DON'T ASK QUESTIONS.

WHEN YOU PUT STUFF IN FRONT OF ME AND WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT THIS, YOU GUYS ARE SMART PEOPLE, I DON'T QUESTION IT.

BUT, REMOVING THIS AREA TO THE SOUTH OF CITY HALL FROM THE TIF DISTRICT, IN THE SCENARIO, THERE ARE TWO SCENARIOS AND THINKING OF. THE FIRST IS A TEAHOUSE OR SOMETHING IS PUT IN THERE. WE LOSE OUT ON BEING ABLE TO CAPTURE THOSE TAXES? WHAT.

>> CORRECTS. ALL OF IT WILL BE CITY-OWNED SO THEREWILL BE YOUR PROPERTY TAXES .

>> OKAY. SO WITH SPENDING TIF, WE LOSE OUT ON THE ABILITY TO SPEND TIF THERE?

>> IT'S POSSIBLE PEOPLE COULD SPEND TIF FAIR.

THE STATUTE ALLOWS TO PLACEMENT IN AN AREA OF IT DIRECTLY BENEFITS THE TIF AREA. IF THERE IS A TIF AREA ADJACENT BURETTE AROUND IN THE JAPANESE GARDEN CAN BE SAID TO BENEFIT THAT, YOU CAN USE TIF TO MAKE IMPROVEMENTS IN THAT AREA.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH. >> I MOVE THE ADOPTION.

>> SECOND. >> WE HAVE A MOTION FROM MISS BUCKLER AND A SECOND FROM MR. HILL TO ADOPT RESOLUTIONS PC 09 Ã19 Ã23 ÃCAPITAL A AND B. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE?

[G. Reports, Announcements & Department Concerns]

NOW, REPORTS,AND ETC. FROM THE DEPARTMENT?

>> THANK YOU. I WILL JUST GIVE AN UPDATE FROM THE RESIDENTIAL COMMITTEE. THE ANDREWS PUD REMAINS AT THE RESIDENTIAL COMMITTEE AND THE TABLES TO BE OCTOBER 3 COMMITTEE AND THE EDGE AT WEST CARMEL PROJECT WAS HEARD AT THAT MEETING AND DISCUSSED AND THE COMMITTEE CONTINUED IT TO THE OCTOBER 3 MEETING AS WELL. THAT IS ALL I HAVE FOR TONIGHT.

[H. Public Hearings]

THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU, ALEXIA.

THAT TAKES US TO THE PUBLIC HEARINGS PORTIONS OF THIS EVENING'S AGENDA. THE PLAN COMMISSION'S RULES OF PROCEDURE FOR PUBLIC HEARING PROVIDE FOR UP TO 15 MINUTES OF PRESENTATION TIME BY THE PETITIONER FOLLOWED BY A WINDOW OF UP TO 20 MINUTES OF TIME FOR COMMENTS FROMMEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC . THEY HAVE FIVE MINUTES TO RESPOND TO ANY OF THE COMMENTS IF THEY CHOOSE, THEN WE HAVE THE DEPARTMENT REPORT AND AT THE CONCLUSION OF THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC HEARING IS CLOSED.

ONE DOCKET FOR PUBLIC HEARING EXCUSE ME, WE HAVE FOUR DOCKETS FOR PUBLIC HEARING. THE FIRST ONE IS PZ Ã PZ-2023-00138 DP/ADLS: LEO COTTAGES AND MULTI-FAMILY AT THE LEGACY. THE APPLICANT SEEKS SITE PLAN AND DESIGN APPROVAL FOR A NEW APARTMENT COMPLEX WITH 350 UNITS MADE UP OF COTTAGE STYLE HOMES AND THREE 4-STORY BUILDINGS AS WELL AS A FUTURE COMMERCIAL PARCEL.

THE SITE IS LOCATED AT THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF 146TH STREET AND COMMUNITY DRIVE. IT IS ZONED LEGACY PUD (Z-501- 07 AND Z-679-22). FILED BY JIM SHINAVER AND JON DOBOSIEICZ OF NELSON AND FRANKENBERGER, ON BEHALF OF ADVENIR OAKLEY DEVELOPMENT,

LLC. JOHN, THE FLOOR IS YOURS. >> BEFORE WE START, I WILL RECUSE MYSELF DUE TO POTENTIAL CONFLICT OF INTEREST, THANK

YOU. >> THANK YOU, CHRISTINE.

>> GOOD EVENING. FOR THE RECORD, MY NAME IS - -.

REPRESENT THE PETITIONER. PRESENT TONIGHT ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT IS - - IS ALSO PRESENT.

THE REQUEST BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION THIS EVENING IS THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN AND A DLS REVIEW OF THE REAL COTTAGES AND MULTIFAMILY AT THE LEGACY. THE LEO LIVING COTTAGES IS A RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT CONSISTING OF SINGLE FAMILY ATTACHED AND DETACHED RENTAL HOMES AND APARTMENTS.

BY WAY OF GENERAL BACKGROUND, THE LEGACY PROPOSAL WAS APPROVED ORIGINALLY IN 2007. IT ENCOMPASSES, THE SUBJECT PARCEL ENCOMPASSES 32 ACRES IS OUTLINED BELOW ON NORTH BY 146

[00:10:03]

IN FEBRUARY OF THIS YEAR AFTER REVIEW BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION LAST FALL AND EARLY THIS YEAR, THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVED AN AMENDMENT TO THE LEGACY PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT WHICH ESTABLISHED THE UNDERLYING ZONING REQUIREMENTS AND DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS FOR THIS PROPOSAL.

WITH THE APPROVAL AND ADOPTION OF THE AMENDMENT, AND LINEAR IS COMMENCING WITH THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR THIS COMMUNITY.THE SITE PLAN NOW ON DISPLAY IS ALSO INCLUDED BEHIND TAB THREE OF YOUR BROCHURES. AS DEPICTED ON THE PLAN, THE COMMUNITY CONSISTS OF 237 SINGLE FAMILY ATTACHED AND DETACHED RENTAL HOMES AS WELL AS 113 APARTMENTS WITHIN THE THREE-STORY BUILDINGS WHICH ARE ADJACENT TO COMMUNITY DRIVE.

ALONG THE NORTH PERIMETER, IT'S HUNDRED 46 STREET, ON THE WEST PERIMETER IS THE RIDGE AT LEGACY.

THE EAST PERIMETER IS COMMUNITY DRIVE.ADDITIONALLY, AN INTERNAL SIDEWALK NETWORK WILL CONNECT THE EXISTING SIDEWALKS WITHIN THIS COMMUNITY TO THE SURROUNDING SIDEWALKS WITHIN THE LEGACY DEVELOPMENT. IN ADDITION, THERE IS A BICYCLE PROMENADE THAT EXISTS ALONG THE WEST PERIMETER CARRIED UP NORTH THROUGH THIS SITE AND CONNECT 246 STREET.

IN ADDITION TO THE RESIDENTIAL COMPONENT, THE SITE WAS ALSO A 2.4 ACRE SITE SEEN HERE. THE 2.4 ACRE SITE WILL BE IN THE FUTURE AND PLANS WILL BE - - IN THE FUTURE WHEN THE PLANS ARE REALIZED. IT IS NOT ADDRESSED IN THIS PETITION OTHER THAN A BLOCK WITH AN OVERALL DEVELOPMENT PLAN. AS SHOWN, THE COMMUNITY WILL CONTINUE THE EXISTING STREETS, THOSE BEING A LARSON DRIVE, JAMES DEAN DRIVE AND HOPEWELL PARKWAY.

HOPEWELL PARKWAY BLANKS 136 STREET.

ELEMENTS OF THE SITE PLAN INCLUDE BUT ARE NOT LIMITED TO ON STREET PARKING. THE INCLUSION OF CROSSWALKS TO SERVICE - - ON JAMES DEAN DRIVE, JAMES DEAN BEING THE NORTH-SOUTH CONNECTOR ON HUNDRED 46 STREET.

THE WESTERN PERIMETER OF THE REAL ESTATE, THAT ADDITION TO THE RIDGE IN THE LEGACY , ADDITIONAL LANDSCAPING IS PROVIDED ON THE SIDEWALK. HIS SUFFERING CONDUCT REAL ESTATE - -. SOME OF THE ADDITIONAL EXHIBITS PROVIDED WITHIN YOUR BROCHURE INCLUDE PERSPECTIVES.

THERE IS ALSO DETAILED ELEVATION EXAMPLES OF ALL THE DIFFERENT PRODUCTTYPES . THOSE BEING THE ATTACHED DWELLINGS AS WELL AS THE MULTI FAMILY.

THIS WAS AN IMAGE IF YOU WERE STANDING AT THE EXISTING COMMERCIAL CORNER. THIS IS THE MULTISTORY BUILDINGS, FOR STORIES AND HEIGHTS.

AN ADDITIONAL EXHIBITS, THESE ARE ALSO DETAILED FOR YOUR BROCHURE IS A PERSPECTIVE DWINDLING IN ATTACHED DWELLING.

AT ATTACHED DWELLING HERE AND HERE, THIS IS A TWO FAMILY DWELLING AT THE CORNER OF AN INTERSECTION OF THE AREA THAT IS A PAT OF THE COTTAGES. ONE OTHER ADDITIONAL BIRDS ARE PERSPECTIVE HERE, TO ORIENT YOU, WE ARE LOOKING EAST.

THIS IS 146 STREET IN THE BACKGROUND, COMMUNITY DRIVE AND THE BUILDINGS HERE AND THE SINGLE STORY AND AND A HALF BUILDINGS, ALL OF WHICH ARE IN THIS SPACE.

FROM THE RIDGE AT LEGACY WORKING TO COMMUNITY DRIVE, THE MAXIMUM BUILDING HEIGHT IS TWO STORIES.

MOST OF IT IS 1.5 STORIES, BUT THERE ARE TWO STORY BUILDINGS IN THEIR AND THE BUILDINGS ALONG COMMUNITY DRIVE ARE FOUR STORIES IN HEIGHT. I AM NOT GOING TO GO INTO DETAIL. THERE ARE NUMEROUS DETAILS IN THAT PACKAGE WHICH INCLUDES ALL THE ELEVATIONS OF THE DIFFERENT PRODUCT TYPES INCLUDING THE AMENITIES WITHINTHE SPACE .

WE ARE CONTINUING TO REVIEW THAT WITHSTAFF .

[00:15:03]

IN CONCLUSION, ADDITIONAL INFORMATION PROVIDED IN THE SUBMITTAL ADDRESSING LIGHTING, LANDSCAPING AS WELL AS SIGNAGE.

THOSE ARE ALL TAB OUT INFORMATIONAL PIECES WITHIN THE BROCHURE. ADVENIR WILL CONTINUE TO WORK WITH STAFF TO ADDRESS OUTSTANDING ITEMS IN THE DEPARTMENT REPORT .IT IS OUR UNDERSTANDING THAT STAFF RECOMMEND THIS ITEM BE FORWARD TO THE RECORD RESIDENTIAL COMMITTEE FOR ADDITIONAL CONSIDERATION ON OCTOBER 3. YOU WILL COORDINATE STAFF - - STAFF REPORT AND COME TO THE OMMITTEE WITH RESPONSE TO THOSE ITEMS. WE WOULD BE GLAD TO ADDRESS ANY QUESTIONS THAT THE COMMISSION HAS AT THIS TIME EITHER NOW OR AT THE CONCLUSION OF YOUR

PUBLIC HEARING, THANK YOU.>> THANK YOU, JOHN.PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUES. CAN I SEE A SHOW OF HANDS FROM THE PUBLIC FOR ANYONE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK ON THIS PETITION? I SEE ONE, I SEE THREE.

I SEE FOUR. WE HAVE A 20 MINUTE BLOCK OF TIME SO WE WILL DIVIDE THAT FOR WAYS AND EACH OF YOU WILL HAVE FIVE MINUTES TO SPEAK. IF THE FIRST SPEAKER WOULD APPROACH THE MICROPHONE, THERE IS A RED,YELLOW AND GREEN LIGHT INDICATOR NEXT TO THE MICROPHONE .

WHEN YOU ARE AT 32ND REMAINING IN YOUR FIVE-MINUTE ALLOCATION, THE YELLOW LIGHT COMES ON. AT THE END OF YOUR FIVE-MINUTE FROM THE LIGHT GOES RED AND WE WOULD ASK YOU TO CONCLUDE.

WHO WISHES TO BE FIRST? IF EACH SPEAKER WILL INTRODUCE YOURSELF BY NAME AND AREA OF CARMEL IN WHICH YOU LIVE.

>> GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS (NAME), I AM ON THE RESIDENCE AND LEGACY RIDGE THAT IS JUST ADJACENT TO THIS NEW PROJECT THAT IS GOING IN. I AM HERE WITH OTHER MEMBERS OF OUR COMMUNITY AS WELL. WE HAD A COUPLE QUESTIONS ON THE PERIMETER OUTSIDE OF HERE AS TO WHAT THE INSTRUCTION WOULD BE DOING AND HOW IT WOULD AFFECT THE TREE LINE.

IN THE PAST WHAT HAPPENS SOUTH OF THE AS CONSTRUCTION HAPPENS, THEY PLANTED THE TREE LINE TO GET THE WALKWAY BUT CAME IN QUITE A BIT FROM THAT. WE WERE JUST CONCERNED WITH THE PROPERTIES THAT ARE ADJACENT TO THAT HOW MUCH THAT IS GOING TO BE IMPACTED. OUR UNDERSTANDING WAS THAT IT IS A TRUE PRESERVER BY CARMEL. WE DON'T KNOW THE STATUS OF THAT BECAUSE THERE ARE DEER AND WILDLIFE THAT COME THROUGH THEIR, SO WE ARE ALSO CONCERNED WITH THE IMPACT OF THAT AS

WELL. >> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. THE SECOND TO LAST IMAGE SHALL BE MY - - INTO THE NEW DEVELOPMENT.

MYSELF AND THE GROUP MEMBERS HAVECONTINUED TO OPPOSE THE DEVELOPMENT . I KNOW WE ARE PAST THAT STAGE.

BUT I WOULD ASK THIS GROUP IN ADDITION TO THE TREE LINE THERE WE HAVE ADJACENT PROPERTY LINE FOLLOWED BY A 25 YEAR BUFFER FOLLOWED BY A 12 YARD ASPHALT PATH, ETC. HE CONTINUES TO BE IMPORTANT FOR US THAT LIVE ON THAT WESTERN BOUNDARY, BUT IN ADDITION TO THE SAFETY, THE WALKING PATH PRESENTS A CONCER . THE OTHER PIECE I WILL LIKE THIS GROUP TO TAKE AND PAY PARTICULAR ATTENTION TO IS RIGHT NOW COMMUNITY DRIVE IS A HUGE CUT THROUGH, ADDING AN ADDITIONAL 350 UNITS OF TRAFFI .

I'VE INCREDIBLE CONCERNS, IT'S A VERY FAMILY ORIENTED NEIGHBORHOOD AND IT IS AN ACCIDENT WAITING TO HAPPEN.

[00:20:04]

PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO THAT IF YOU WOULD.

>> IF NUMBER FOUR WOULD TAKE A POSITION IN LINE BEHIND THIS LADY, WE HAVE GOT A NUMBER OF OTHER ITEMS ON THE AGENDA SO WE

WANT TO KEEP IT MOVING PLEASE. >> I AM KATHY NEWPORT, THE HUSBAND IS HERE WITH ME. IN ADDITION TO THE OTHER CONCERNS THEY HAVE HAD, I WAS DOING SOME RESEARCH AND CONCERNED ABOUT ADVENIR THE COMPANY.

WHAT I SAW WAS A ABOUT F RATING WITH THE BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU. IF YOU GO TO LOOKING AND DOING SOME RESEARCH, ALL THESE PEOPLE HAVE ALL THESE COMPLAINTS AND THE BIGGEST THING THAT THEY COMPLAIN ABOUT IS NO ONE ADDRESSES THE CONCERNS FROM ADVENIR.

CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG ABOUT THAT, BUT THAT IS THECONCERN

THAT I HAVE . >> SIR, WE DON'T TAKE COMMENTS FROM THE FLOOR, IF YOU ARE, YOU WILL LIKE THE SHARES IN THE

MICROPHONE IS YOURS. >> MY FIRST QUESTION IS, WE

SENT A LIST OF QUESTIONS. >> CAN WE GET YOUR NAME, SIR?

>> PAUL NEWPORT. I HAVE NEVER BEEN TO ONE OF THESE BEFORE, SO YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT AS I STEPPED THROUGH THIS. WE SENT IN A LIST OF QUESTIONS.

WE RECEIVED NO RESPONSE. DO YOU RESPOND HERE, DO YOU RESPOND LATER TO ALL THE CONCERNS AND QUESTIONS THAT WE HAVE? THAT IS A QUESTION.

>> THE PROCESS CERTAIN IN A NUTSHELL, THIS HEARING AND THE ENTIRE PROCESS CORRESPONDS WITH THE DEPARTMENT IS THE CHANCE FOR THE PUBLIC TO SHARE COMMENTS, OBSERVATIONS, QUESTIONS AND SUGGESTIONS. IT DOES NOT OPEN A DIALOGUE.

IT'S FOR SUPPORT OR DEFENSE OF THEIR POSITION AND THE COMMISSION TO WAIVE THE INPUT. ALL LETTERS AND COMMENTARY SUBMITTED BY THE PUBLIC, WHETHER IN PERSON OR BY EMAIL IS SHARED WITH THE FULL COMMISSION.

I BELIEVE TWO LETTERS WERE SENT THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT, THAT IS AND SHARE WITH ALL EIGHT OF US HERE.

>> I ALSO UNDERSTOOD PARKING WAS ONLY GOING TO BE ON THE STREET, NO GARAGES? I THINK THAT WOULD BE A CONCERN THAT WE HAVE CONSIDERABLY. WE LIVE IN THE GROVE AND LEGACY. IT HAS ALREADY BEENMENTIONED, BUT THAT PASS THROUGH ROADS TO GO THROUGH CHERRY CREEK , THAT'S AN AWFUL LOT OF TRAFFIC IN A DENSELY POPULATED NEIGHBORHOOD ALREADY. I AM HOPING THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION WILL STEP UP TO THAT AND FULFILL THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES IN MAKING SURE THAT OUR CONCERNS ARE ADDRESSED. I WILL LIKE TO KNOW, I GUESS WE DO NOT WANT TO HAVE A LOT OF DIALOGUE ABOUT THIS, THAT YOU WILL GO OFF IN YOUR CORNER AND MAKE YOUR DECISIONS WITH NO OTHER INPUT OR DIALOGUE FROM THE PUBLIC, IS THAT CORRECT?

I ASSUME THAT AS A YES. >> I DESCRIBED THE PROCESS, THIS WILL GO TO A COMMITTEE MEETING FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION

[00:25:04]

>> OKAY. IT WILL BE IN A NORMAL PLANNING

MEETING LIKE THIS? >> IS A COMMITTEE MEETING, WE ARE NOT WORKING SESSION BETWEEN THE MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION.

>> WILL THE PUBLIC BE THERE? >> THE PUBLIC IS WELCOME AT ALL

COMMITTEE MEETINGS. >> HOW WILL WE KNOW IT'S GOING

TO TAKE PLACE? >> SIR, I DON'T WANT TO GO TO TOO MUCH INFORMATION BECAUSE WE HAVE A MEETING TO CONDUCT YEAR, BUT ALL INFORMATION IS AVAILABLE ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION WEBSITE.THANK YOU FOR YOUR PARTICIPATION.

IS THERE ANYONE ELSE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK TONIGHT ON THIS PETITION? DOES THE POSITIONER PETITIONER

WISH TO RESPOND? >> YES AND THANK YOU BRIEFLY.

THE FIRST TWO PAGES OF TAB SEVEN WHICH INCLUDE THE LANDSCAPING PLAN WILL IDENTIFY THAT WESTERN PERIMETER OF THE REAL ESTATE WHERE THERE WERE QUESTIONS REGARDING HOW THE AREA WILLBE TREATED FROM A PLANTING STANDPOINT AS WELL AS WHERE THE SIDEWALK IS . ADVENIR WILL ADHERE TO THAT PLAN. ALL OF THE PLANS ARE NOT WITHIN THE COMMON AREA OF THE RIDGE AT LEGACY.

WE ARE NOT AWARE OF ANY DESIGNATION ON THE SUBJECT REAL ESTATE OF THE TREE PRESERVATION SPACE.THE PLAN FOR THE DEVELOPMENT WOULD BE FOR THE EXTENSION OF THE EXISTING DRIVE AS WELL AS THE BIKE PROMENADE WHICH HAS BEEN PLANNED TO THE ORIGINAL CONCEPTION AS WELL AS PLANTINGS - -.

>> OVER THE LAST 15 TO 20 YEARS, THERE IS A LOT OF INVASIVE SPECIES ON THE SITE. MOST, IF NOT ALL OF THAT WILL BE REMOVED OR REPLACED WITH ADDITIONAL PLANTINGS ON THE BUS PERIMETER. THAT FIRST PAGE AND SECOND PAGES A LITTLE GREATER DETAIL ON THE DIMENSIONING ON THE WESTERN PERIMETER OF OUR STATE. ADDITIONALLY, THE TRAFFIC THAT WILL TAKE PLACE ADDED BY THE PETITIONER WILL INCLUDE ON SITE IMPROVEMENTS WITHIN OUR SITE. IF HE CALLS THROUGH DISCUSSION OF THE ZONING - - THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT IS LESS TRAFFIC THAN WOULD OTHERWISE BE DEVELOPED UNDER DIFFERENT DEVELOPMENT SCENARIOS WITHIN THE LEGACY PUD.

THE STREET NETWORKING - - HAVE ALL BEEN DESIGNED TO ACCOMMODATE TRAFFIC THAT WOULD BE IN EXCESS OF WHAT IS PROPOSED UNDER THIS DEVELOPMENT.

TRAFFIC WAS THE CONCERN MENTIONED AT THE TIME OF THE ZONING APPROVAL AND THE TRAFFIC METHODS WERE AGREED TO AS A PART OF THE ZONING AND WILL BE INCLUDED WITHIN THIS PARTICULAR PLAN. LASTLY, THERE WAS A NOTE FROM THE MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC THAT PARKING WAS NOT INCLUDED IN GARAGES. THERE ARE A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF GARAGE SPACES IN COMBINATION WITH ON STREET PARKING AS WELL AS SURFACE PARKING THAT WILL SERVE THE DEVELOPMENT.

JUST WANTED THAT NOTE TO BE CLEAR THAT THERE WERE GARAGES INCLUDED A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT UNIT TYPES WITHIN THE DEVELOPMENT. WITHOUT THAT, AGAIN, WE WILL CONTINUE TO WORK WITH STAFF AND BE PREPARED TO ADDRESS THOSE COMMENTS AND CONCERNS AT THE MEETING ON OCTOBER 3.

>> THANK YOU. THE REPORT FROM THE DEPARTMENT,

PLEASE?>> THANK YOU FOR FOR THE RECORD, ALEXIA LOPEZ WITH THE CITY OF CARMEL PLANNING AND ZONING OFFICE.

THE SITE PLAN DOES FOLLOW-UP WAS APPROVED WITH THE PUD AMENDMENT. THERE ARE THREE MULTISTORY APARTMENT BUILDINGS PROPOSED ALONG COMMUNITY DRIVE AND QUALITY BOULEVARD, SIMILAR TO THE LEGACY TOWNS AND FLATS APARTMENTS ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE STREET.

THEN, THE SITE TRANSITIONS DOWN TO THE SMALLER SCALE ATTACHED AND DETACHED ONE AND TWO STORY.WILLING TO THE WESTFORD AS MENTIONED PLUS A PUBLIX STREETS WILL BE DISCONTINUED WITHIN THE LEGACY PUD. THERE IS AN AMENITY CENTER WITH A POOL AND WORKOUT FACILITIES PROPOSEDAS WELL .

[00:30:03]

I WANTED TO ADDRESS A COUPLE COMMENTS MENTIONS EVENING.

ONE TIME I THINK ABOUT TREE PRESERVATION.

THERE IS A TREE PRESERVATION IN THE RIDGE, AND THAT THERE IS A COMMON AREA FOR THE RIDGE AT LEGACY.

THAT IS ALL IN THAT SUBDIVISION.

NOTHING WILL BE TOUCHED IN THERE.

AFTER THE COMMON AREAS WHERE IT WILL START THE ADDITIONAL LANDSCAPING AND THE STREET. THE LETTER THAT WAS SUBMITTED WITH THE QUESTIONS, I WILL MAKE SURE I CAN GET SOME RESPONSE TO THEM AS WELL. THEY RECOMMEND THIS SCOPE TO THE RESIDENTIAL COMMITTEE MEETING ON OCTOBER 3, THANK

YOU. >> THANK YOU FOR THAT INCLUDES A PUBLIC HEARING WHICH CLOSES AT 6:30 1:00 P.M.. QUESTIONS FOR MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION? ADAM?

>> DO WE KNOW THE EXACT RATIO FOR PARKING THAT HAVE BEEN

DEFINED, JOHN? >> I BELIEVE IS TWO PARKING SPACES PER DWELLING. I WILL CONFIRM IT, I'LL HAVE AN EXACT ACCOUNT HANDY. THERE IS A STANDARD PART OF THE LEGACY PUD AND THE PLAN IS TO MEET THAT STANDARD.

>> THESE QUESTIONS WILL BE HANDLEDEASILY .

SIR, IF YOU CAN PULL THE SITE BACK UP, THE ONE ON TAB THREE AND UNDER TAB THREE. IT WOULD BE EASY TO ASK QUESTIONS, THE ONE WITH THE YELLOW ON IT FIRST.HAT ONE.

VERY TECHNICAL TERM. I AM JUST CURIOUS, TO THE EAST OF THE SITE, CAN YOU JUST, BECAUSE I GOT DRIVEN BACK THROUGH THERE, CN YOU TELL ME WHAT IS ON THE EASTERN SIDE OF THE STREET ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE DEVELOPMENT?

>> THIS IS COMMUNITY DRIVE ALONG THE EASTERN PERIMETER OF

OUR SITE. >> WHAT'S ON THAT?

>> ON THE OTHER SIDE THERE IS A VACANT PARCEL YOU SEE ON THE SQUARE. FURTHER TO THE NORTH IS THERE ARE THREE COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS - -. THAT IS ACROSS THE STREET

FROM US ACROSS COMMUNITY DRIVE. >> SOUTH OF THAT?

>> THESE ARE THE JC HART APARTMENTS.

THREE-STORY BUILDING THAT FACED COMMUNITY DRIVE AND THAT OUR SOUTH IS THE DAYCARE. ALL THESE YELLOW DASHES REPRESENT INDIVIDUAL TOWNHOME DRAWINGS TO OURSOUTH .

[00:35:02]

>> IS SMALL. WHEN YOU PUT IT DOWN AND REDUCE IT IN THE PACKET, IT'S SMALL. ARE THERE ANY ADA UNITS BEING

PLANNED FOR THIS DEVELOPMENT? >> THERE ARE AND THEY FOLLOW FHA GUIDELINES. AS FAR AS THE NUMBER AND PERCENTAGE. I CAN GET THAT, BUT THE ANSWER IS YES. IT'S LP 10, THOSE THAT TELL YOU

ANYTHING? >> YES.

>> I DID NOT MEAN TO BE INSULTING WHEN I SAID THAT.

SOME OF THEM HAVE THE SAME IDENTIFIER ON THEM.

>> IS UNDER TAB SEVEN I THINK. >> I WANT TO MAKE SURE I AM LOOKING AT THIS CORRECTLY. EVERYTHING TO THE EAST IS DEVELOPED. THERE IS NO IMMEDIATE PLANS FOR THE AREA MARKED FUTURE DEVELOPMENT.TO THE WESTERN DEVELOPMENT, THERE'S GOING TO BE HOW WIDE THIS TRIP IS OF ADDITIONAL TREE LINE ADDED ON THE FAR WEST SIDE.

>> IS APPROXIMATELY 15 FEET IN WIDTH.

THERE IS THE STREET AND THERE'S THE BIKE, WHICH ISASPHALT .

BEYOND THAT TO THE WEST ARE ADDITIONAL 15 FEET TO OUR SHARED PROPERTY LINE WITH THE COMMON AREA.

THAT COMMON AREA IS - - THEN BEYOND THAT, AREAS INDICATES THAT IT WILL BE 20 FEET IN WIDTH.

THOSE LOTS EXIST AT THE TOP OF THE RIDGE HERE.

>> SO, IF I AM STANDING WHERE YOUR PEN IS, WHERE AM I?

>> IS THE FIRST STREET WE WERE TALKING ABOUT AT THIS ADJACENT

PROPERTY HERE. >> MY FINAL COMMENT IS THE ACTUAL DESIGN OF THE BUILDINGS. I REALIZE THAT ARCHITECTURAL TASTES ARE GOING TO DIFFER AMONGST ALL OF US, BUT IS THERE ANY CONSIDERATION FOR, I AM GUESSING THESE ARE THE APARTMENT UNITS. IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'VE GOT BREAK ON THE FIRST FLOOR, IS THAT CORRECT? IS THERE ANY POSSIBILITY? WOULD YOU CONSIDER THE POSSIBILITY OF RAISING THE BREAK ANOTHER STORY OR

SOMETHING? >> WE WILL CONTINUE TO WORK ON THAT WITH STAFF AND PRESENT A MODIFICATION TO THE COMMITTEE.

>> THANK YOU MR. CHAIRMAN, THAT IS ALL MY QUESTIONS FOR NOW.

>> I DON'T REMEMBER IN THE PUD WITH THE ANTI-MONOTONY WAS, BUT HOW MANY PRODUCT TYPES IN A SINGLE ARE THERE TOO.

>> I REALLY BELIEVE THERE ARE FOUR, IFNOT FIVE.

>> JOHN, THE TWO PICTURES YOU SHOULD TONIGHT ARE JUST

[00:40:02]

STANDING ON THE CORNER AND LOOKING, IT DOES NOT HELP ME TO KNOW WHAT THE STREETS ARE GOING TO LOOK LIKE.

THAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THIS A DLS TO DRILL DOWN ON THIS NOW.

CAN YOU PLEASE APPROVE THAT FOR THE COMMITTEE?

>> IF YOU CAN TRANSMIT THE STAFF THE IMAGES YOU WOULD WANT TO SEE YOU, THE ARCHITECT AND PREPARE THOSE.

AT THE TIME OF THE ZONING APPROVAL WE HAVE - - WHAT I WANT TO AVOID IS COMING TO COMMITTEE WITH SOMETHING THAT IS DOES NOT MEET YOUR EXPECTATIONS.

IF THERE IS ADDITIONAL COMMUNICATION THAT YOU WOULD PROVIDE TO STAFF THAT WE WOULD GIVE YOU DIRECTION, WEARE OPEN

TO THAT . >> IF YOU KNOW YOU ARE GOING TO BUILD THE SAME THAT YOU BOUGHT INITIALLY TO US IN THE PICTURES, THOSE ARE ALWAYS DESCRIPTIONS IN THE PUD.

IF YOU CAN BRING THOSE AND SAY IT WILL LOOK LIKE THESE, THAT IS GREAT. BUT WE WANT COMMITMENTS ON THAT. WE'VE GOT TO GET A MUCH BETTER IDEA OF WHAT YOU ARE REALLY PROPOSING HERE, AT LEAST I DO.

AT THE SAME TIME, MAYBE IT WAS IN HERE BUT I MISSED IT, MORE DETAILS ON THE POOL AND AMENITY CENTER NOW THAT WE ARE DRILLING DOWN TO WHAT IT WILL LOOK LIKE AND WILL BE AVAILABLE TO THE RESIDENTS. IT IS GOING TO BE CALLED TO

LEO, IS THAT THE FINAL AIM?>> LEO AT CARMEL.

>> OKAY, THANK YOU. >> MR. CHAIRMAN, MAY I ASK ONE MORE QUESTION? WHILE YOU HAVE THE IMAGE UP, CAN YOU TELL ME, COME DOWN TO THE SOUTHERN END OF IT.

THERE IS A RED BUILDING. >> TRASH COMPACTOR.

>> THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU MR. CHAIRMAN.

TO ECHO SOME OF THE SUSAN SENTIMENT, I THINK I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE HARD MATERIAL. BRICK, STONE.

THAT HELPS SET THE STANDARD WE HAD HERE IN CARMEL AS WELL AS ADDING ANTI-MONOTONY, IF YOU WILL.

I'M AN ARCHITECT, BUT I SEE HARD MATERIAL.

I DON'T SEE A LOT OF DIFFERING OF MATERIAL.

IF YOU COULD TALK WITH THE COMMITTEE AND/OR STAFF ABOUT THEIR OPINION, THAT WOULD BE GREAT.

I THINK THAT IS ALL I'VE GOT FOR RIGHTNOW .

>> SOUND LIKE A BROKEN RECORD HERE BUT I WILL ECHO WHAT HAS BEEN MENTIONED BEFORE. I THINK THERE IS A STANDARD WE EXPECT AND AS I'M LOOKING AT WHAT IS PRESENTED IN THE RENDERINGS, I AM VERY MUCH NOT IN FAVOR.

I'M NOT FEELING WHAT HAS BEEN PRESENTED HERE AND I WOULD BE HAPPIER IF I HAD MORE FEEDBACK IN CONTEXT FOR THE NEXT MEETING. THE OTHER THING THAT STOOD OUT TO ME, THIS TIME FOR THE DEVELOPMENT .

MAYBE IT'S SOMETHING WE CAN DISCUSS IN COMMITTEE.

IDA NOTICES THE LAST TIME I'VE SEEN OVER COMMITTEES WITH THE PHONE NUMBER ON THE SIGNS. USUALLY IT'S FOR BROKERS OR BUSINESSES THAT HAVE BEEN THERE FOR 30 OR 40 YEARS.

THERE'S A LOT OF LOOK AND FEEL IT DON'T MATTER COMMUNITY.

IT WAS PRESENTED AT VOTE, I WOULD BE VERY MUCH NOT IN

FAVOR. >> THE RED BUILDINGS AREAMENITY OR NONRESIDENTIAL TYPE BUILDINGS ?

[00:45:06]

>> YES. >> THE THREE IN THE TOP OF THE EXHIBIT, THE THAT COMMUNITY CENTER?

>> FITNESS CENTER, COMMUNITY CENTER, MEETING SPACE.

TO ECHO SUE'S THOUGHTS, I AM CURIOUS.

LET'S HAVE A DEEPERDIVE INTO WHAT THE AMENITIES ARE .

YOU POINTED OUT THE RED BUILDING THE SOUTH AND IS TRASH COMPACTOR ENCLOSURE. I WAS FURIOUS WITH THE TRASH PLAN WAS REAL SKILL IN PARTICULAR WHEN YOU ANGLED PARKING, MEMBERS OF THEPLANNING TO TELL ME AT THE COMMITTEE MEETING . JUST CURIOUS HOW THAT OPERATIONALLY HELP IS THAT STUFF HANDLED.

IS IT DIFFERENT ON THE EASTERN SIDE OF THE DEVELOPMENT FOR THE DUPLEX OR RESIDENCES? I GUESS THE OTHER QUESTION I HAD, COUPLE THOUGHTS. WHEN YOU CAME TO US LAST YEAR, WE TALKED ABOUT HOW THE CHANGE IN USE CREATED A NET REDUCTION IN POTENTIAL ANTICIPATED TRAFFIC.

NOW WHEN I LOOK AT THIS AND IT IS CERTAINLY INTENSE, ANNOUNCING IS NOT ALLOWED OR PERMITTED, OR ARE THERE WAYS WE CAN WORK TOGETHER INCLUDING THE ENGINEERING APARTMENT TO FIND WAYS TO SLOW TRAFFIC AS MUCH A WE CAN ? YES AND SPEED LIMIT SIGNS THAT SAY 10 OR 20 MPH, I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE PHYSICALLY CREATE AN ENVIRONMENT WE GET THOSE FOLKS TO SLOW DOWN SO PEOPLE ARE SAFE AND WE ARE GOOD NEIGHBORS TO THE FOLKS LIVING IN AND AROUND COMMUNITY DRIVE ALREADY. DON'T NEED ALL THE ANSWERS RIGHT NOW. WE CAN TOUCH ON THIS NOW WILL CONTINUE TO HAVE A DIALOGUE I COMMITTEE, ONE OF THE SIGNS I SAW IN THE SIGN PACKAGE SAYS YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD IS CARED FOR BY ADVENIR LIVING. THERE HAS BEEN SOME NOTES THAT THERE IS A LOW BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU RATING.

I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE TAKE CARE OF THE RESIDENTS THAT LIVE HERE AND WE HAVE A COMMUNITY WE CAN ALL BE PROUD OF.

IF THERE'S FEEDBACK YOU HAVE THERE WERE ANY RESPONSE YOU WANT TO BRING, I AM HAPPY TO DO THAT.

WE PROVIDE TRASH SERVICE - - GO AROUND AND PICK UP EVERY NEIGHBOR WILL HAVE THEIR TRASHCAN ANDTIRED UP .

SOMEONE PRESENT PICKED IT UP AND TAKES A DECENTRALIZED TRASH LOCATION ON THE TRASH PICKUP DAYS.

A DUMP TRUCK WHICH IS GO TO THE TRASH RECEPTACLE.

WE WENT THROUGH LABOR QUITE EXTENSIVELY DURING THE PLANNING COMMISSION AS WELL AS COUNCIL COMMITTEE TO ENSURE THAT WE ARE NOT GOING TO CLUTTER UP THE STREET WITH 237 DIFFERENT TRASH CANS. I CAN TOUCH ON AMENITIES, WE WILL HAVE TWO COMMUNITIES, ONE WILL BE ON IMAGE A ON A MULTISTORY BUILDING ON THE LOWER RIGHT-HAND CORNER.

POOL SPACE, FIREPITS, PICKLE BALL COURTS .

SOMETHING WE ARE CALLING UP YOUR GARDEN.

IT IS ESSENTIALLY A FAMILY HANG OUT AREA.

THERE ARE GRILL STATIONS, FIRE PITS AND CONCRETE SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU HAVE IN THE PROMENADE. ON TOP OF THAT, WE OF THE POCKET PARKS, ONE OF WHICH WILL BE A DOG PARK IN WHICH WE WILL INCLUDE DOG DNA TESTING. THE CONNECTED TRAILS THROUGHOU , I CAN PROVIDE A MORE EXTENSIVE LIST OF AMENITIES IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO ON SLOWING TRAFFIC TO REPEAT WITH JOHN THE NIGHT JAMES DEAN BOULEVARD HAS BEEN A CONCERN.

IF THE ROAD GOING NORTH SOUTH. THAT WAS THE DESIGN GOING TO GO

[00:50:05]

IT'S NOT A PLACE THEY WILL LOOK AT AS A QUICK WAY TO GO

THROUGH. >> CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE RAISED

CROSSWALKS WILL BE?>> RIGHT HERE.

RIGHT HERE, RIGHT HERE AND DOWN HERE IS WHERE WE ARE LOOKING AT. I WILL HAVE THE EXACT LOCATIONS ON THEIR. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE ARE AS CONCERNED AS MUCH AS OUR NEIGHBORS IN THE COMMUNITY AS WELL AS BEYOND THE COMMUNITY. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE ARE NOT UTILIZING THATSPACE AS A CUT THROUGH .

>> THESE ARE NOT SPEED HUMPS, THERE RAISE PEDESTRIAN

CROSSWALKS? >> CORRECTS THEM IW SPEED HUMPS ARE PERMITTED. THERE RAISE PEDESTRIAN PATHWAYS. WE HAVE PEDESTRIANS CROSSING THOSE ROADS, YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE IT IS WELL KNOWN THAT THEY

WILL BE THERE. >> THE THREE FOUR-STORY APARTMENT BUILDINGS, THE RENDERING SHOWS FOUR-STORY RETAIL ON THOSE TWO WE SEE SOME OUTDOOR TABLES, WITH THE GREEN SPACE AND OPEN SPACE AREA. SO WE KNOW THAT ACTIVITY AREA LOOKS LIKE. FOR THE DEPARTMENT, WHERE WILL OUR OPPORTUNITY REGARDING SIGNAGE FOR THE RETAIL PORTION

OF THOSE BUILDINGS BE? >> NEED TO TAKE A LOOK SO WE CAN SEE WITH THE LIMITATIONS WILL BE FOR SIGNAGE.

>> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. IDEALLY, WE WILL LOOK AT THE ANNOUNCEMENT THEY ARE DESIGNING AND BUILDING ARE NO ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES THAT WOULD BE COVERED UP BY OUR SIGN AND MAKING SURE THEY HAVE ENOUGH SPACE TO HAVE A READABLE SIGN AS WELL. IN THE PAST, SOME PEOPLE HAVE HELD OFF ON GETTING THE SIGN APPROVED AT THE STATION WOULD COME BACK THROUGH FOR AN 80 LS AMENDMENT.

IF WE CAN DO IT NOW, WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHAT THE SIZE OF THOSE WOULD BE AND WHERE THIS COULD GO.

>> PERHAPS THE COMMITTEE WOULD WANT TO TAKE UP IF THIS COULD BE INTERMINABLY ILLUMINATED SIGNS OR EXTERNALLY WITH GOOSENECK LIGHTING.WHAT THE STANDARD WOULD BE DIRECTLY TO THE RETAIL BASE IN THOSE BUILDINGS.SHOT, BROTHER BE RETAIL IN ALL THREE OF THOSE BUILDINGS WERE JUST THE TWO OR

MAYBE JUST ONE? >> IS THE ONE BUILDING ON THE

SOUTHEAST CORNER. >> OKAY, THANK YOU.IN THE LIGHTING SECTION, THERE ARE TWO EXAMPLES OF LIGHTING FIXTURES.

ONE IS THE CARMEL STANDARD, THE ACORN PICTURE.

THE OTHER IS THE LED. IS IT THE INTENT THAT THE STREET LIGHTING ESSENTIALLY WILL BE THE ACORN PICTURE.

THE MULTISTORY BUILDINGS OR MAYBE THE CLUBHOUSE IS WILL YOU AND SEE THE MORE MODERN LED FIXTURES?

>> THE MAIN STREETSCAPE - - MORE STANDARD LED LIGHTING.

>> IS THAT AN APPROPRIATE MIX OR DO WE WANT TO MAINTAIN

CONSISTENCY? >> I DON'T KNOW.

A STREETSCAPE VIEW INCLUDING THE LIGHTING WOULD HELP WITH

THAT QUESTION. >> THERE ARE NO EXAMPLES OF STRUCTURAL LIGHTING OF WALL-MOUNTED LIGHT FIXTURES.

OR OF THE MULTISTORY BUILDINGS AND WHAT WAS PROPOSED IN THOSE LIGHT FIXTURES. BEHIND TAB NINE, THE TWO MODELS

[00:55:14]

ILLUMINATED AT ALL?>> ADAM, AND WILL BE DIRECTLY FROM MY NOTES. I UNDERSTAND THE BUSINESS NEED - - TUESDAY NEXT PLACE TO LIVE IN THIS DAY AND AGE OF THE INTERNET AND QR CODES AND OTHER MARKETING TOOLS.

>> IT'S FUNNY YOU SAY THAT MR. PRESIDENT.

I WILL BE CURIOUS TO KNOW THE COMMISSION KNOWS ABOUT THE QR CODE. IT'S LIKE A MODERN-DAY PHONE

NUMBER. >> CREDIT FROM OUR SIGN ORDINANCES NOT GOVERNED - - THE SIZE AND MATERIALS IN THE APPEARANCE IT DOES. THAT SEEMS TO BE A LITTLE BIT - -. QUESTION FOR THE DEPARTMENT. THIS PACKAGE IS A MORE THOROUGH JOB OF PLAYING THAT KIND FIRECRACKERS AND ANYBODY HAVE SEEN. MY QUESTION IS WHICH OF THOSE TIMES ARE GOVERNED AND INTERPRETED INTERNAL INFORMATIONAL OR DIRECTIONAL WAYFINDING SIGNS THAT A LESS RESTRICTED BY THE SIGN ORDINANCE.

>> ALL THE SIGNS TO REFER BACK TO THE YOU DO FOR THE SIGNAGE.

I DO KNOW WHICH ONES WE NEED A SIGN PERMIT BECAUSE OF THEIR SIZE. TYPICALLY THREE 2 FT.B2 OR LESS ARE INTERESTED IN ALL SIGNAGE. WE DO ALLOW THE DIRECTIONAL SIGNAGE BUT THAT IS SOMETHING WE NEED MORE INFORMATION ON.

WHERE WILL THE SMALLER DIRECTIONAL SIGNAGE BE ON THE SITE? I WILL WORK WITH OUR SIGN PERMIT SPECIALIST TO SEE WHAT WE WOULD NORMALLY ALLOW.

>> THE COMMITTEE HAS ENOUGH TO WORK ON HERE.

THERE ARE A HANDFUL OF SIGNS YOU CAN PUT IN THE CATEGORY OF HELPFULNESS OR DISCLOSURE, WE CAN TABLE THOSE PARALEGALS OFFER THE DELIBERATION AND THE COMMITTEE.

THE SIGN THAT IS PROPOSED SAYS CARED FOR BY ADVENIR.

THAT FEELS INFORMATIONAL OR DIRECTIONAL.

THE UTILITIES BY QUESTIONINGS, SOWHERE DOES THAT FALL ? IT IS MORE THAN 2 FT.B2, AND SUBJECT TO THE YOU DO?

>> I BELIEVE SO. THAT IS THE QUESTION WE HAD TOO. WHERE IS THAT LOCATED?

THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION. >> IF IT'S THE LAST OF THE EXISTING SIDE AND SERVES THE PUBLIC - - NOR THE PURPOSE THAT IT IS PROBABLY SOMETHING WE WOULD RATHER NOT HAVE.

THE ARCHITECTURAL RENDERINGS BEHIND TAB FIVE I FIND IT CAN BE HELPFUL. I APPRECIATE EACH OF THOSE ARE LABELED ACCORDING TO PILOT OR BUILDING TYPE.

WHAT WOULD BE MORE HELPFUL WOULD BE JOHN TO TAKE THE OVERALL SITE PLAN IN TAB THREE. IF YOU ARE PREPARED TO COMMIT TO WHICH FLOOR PLANS ARE BUILDING TYPES ARE GOING TO BE LOCATED SPECIFICALLY IN THAT PLAN, THAT WILL GO A LONG WAY TOWARDS ADDRESSING MONOTONY OR ANTI-MONOTONY.

IT WILL LEAD TO A CONVERSATION THAT I'M SURE THE COMMITTEE WILL HAVE THAT FOCUSES ON THE ARCHITECTURAL FORESIGHT OR TWO

[01:00:02]

I DON'T NECESSARILY AGREE, BUT I EMPATHIZE WITH THEM.

THE FARMHOUSE ARCHITECTURAL STYLE THAT HAS BEEN CHOSEN IS VERY APPROPRIATE FOR THE LEGACY PUD OVERALL.

IT IS ALSO MATCHED BY OUR CONFERENCE THE PROJECT UNDER CONSTRUCTION RIGHT NOW, ALMOST IMMEDIATELY ACROSS 146 STREET.

I THINK THERE IS STILL OPPORTUNITIES, DEPENDS ON WHAT THE DISTRICT'S PLANS TO BE CITED, BUT THERE ARE SEVERAL OPPORTUNITIES TO BREAK UP SOME OF THE UNITS, SOME PRETTY SIMPLE OR PLAIN ELEVATIONS TO ADD MAYBE ANOTHER ARCHITECTURA ELEMENT OR TWO . SAME THING APPLIES TO THE IDEA OF MAYBE EXTENDING THE BRICK UPWARD ON THE MULTISTORY BUILDINGS . IF YOU CAN DO THAT AND STILL BE AUTHENTIC TO THE FARMHOUSE ARCHITECTURE, KUDOS TO THE ARCHITECTS. BUT I THINK THE INTEGRITY OF THE ARCHITECTURE IS BETTER AND MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE NUMBER OF BRICKS USED IN THE CONSTRUCTION.

THAT IS MY TWO CENTS WORTH ON THAT.

I APPRECIATE THE DETAIL YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN IN THIS PACKAG . I THINK YOU ARE OFF TO A STRONG START. I LOOK FORWARD TO WHAT PART

COMES OUT OF THAT PROCESS. >> THANK YOU.

HE WILL BE ABLE TO OVERCOME QUESTIONS AND CONCERNS REGARDING ARCHITECTURE. ONE OF THE BENEFITS WE DON'T HAVE THROUGH THAT AED LS PROCESS, WE SUBMITTED A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF PHOTOGRAPHS AND ILLUSTRATIONS OF EXISTING PRODUCT AND WHEN WE COME TO THE STAGE THAT WE ARE AT NOW WITH COMPLIANCE REVIEW, WE HAVE TO PRODUCE ENGINEERED RENDERINGS OF THE DWELLINGS THAT SHOW ALL THOSE ELEMENTS SO STAFF IS ISSUING PERMITS AND DRAWINGS THAT ARE NOT PHOTOGRAPHS BUT ENGINEERED DRAWINGS AS YOU SEE IN OUR BROCHURE. WE WILL TRY TO MANAGE THAT GAP AND ILLUSTRATIONS PROVIDED HERE BECAUSE THE INTENT WAS TO PROVIDE COMPLIANCE TRYING SO STAFF CAN GAUGE CONFORMANCE WITH THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE ORDINANCE AND PLANNING COMMISSION CAN DO THE SAME. WE WILL TALK TO THE COMMITTEE WITH PHOTOGRAPHS AND ADDITIONAL ILLUSTRATIONS THAT HELP BRING LIFE TO THOSE ENGINEERED DRAWINGS.

>> ONE LAST REQUEST AND IF YOU CAN GET THE COMMITTEE INFORMATION AHEAD OF TIME AS FAST AS YOU CAN SO WE CAN MAKE QUICK DECISIONS ON IT THAT WOULD BE GREAT.

>> NEXT THURSDAY, OR THIS UPCOMING BUT 10 DAYS FROM NOW YOUR STAFF REPORT WILL COME OUT.

WE WILL MAKE EVERY EFFORT TO GET STAFF INFORMATION THAT THEY CAN TRANSMIT WITH THE STAFF REPORT WHICH WOULD AT LEAST GET

YOU FIVE DAYS IN ADVANCE. >> OKAY, THANK YOU.

>> MR. CHENEY FROM ACADEMIC LAMARCK ARCHITECTURALCOMMENT ? HAVING GROWN UP IN A FARMHOUSE, WHAT LOOKS LIKE A 50B0 PITCH ON THIS POST COMING UP UNDER TAB FIVE, YOU HAVE THE AWNING COMING OUT, YOU HAVE A TRIANGLE THERE AND YOU HAVE A POST COMING DOWN AND ONE THAT LOOKS LIKE A 50B0 ANGLE COMING UP AS

TEMPORARY SUPPORT. >> WE HAVE ADDITIONAL PHOTOGRAPHS OF THIS FORMAT AND HE WILL BRING YOU PHOTOGRAPHS

OF WHAT THIS LOOKS LIKE. >> OKAY, THANK YOU.

>> IS THERE A MOTION? >> I WOULD LIKE A MOTION AND MOVE THAT WE SEND THIS TO THE RESIDENTIAL COMMITTEE TO BE HEARD AT THE OCTOBER 3 MEETING WITH THE ITEM TO COME BACK TO

THE FULL PLANNING COMMISSION. >> SECOND.

>> THANK YOU MR. HILL AND THANK YOU SUE FOR THE SECOND.ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE.

ANY OPPOSED? THIS WILL GO TO THE RESIDENCE OF COMMITTEE FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION.THAT COMMITTEE

[01:05:01]

>> THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. >> THANK YOU.

NEXT ITEM FOR PUBLIC HEARING THIS EVENING'S DOCKET PZ-2023-00166 OA: HOA RENTAL RESTRICTIONS AMENDMENT.

THE APPLICANT SEEKS TO AMEND THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE IN ORDER TO REQUIRE THAT OWNERS ASSOCIATION GOVERNING DOCUMENTS ALLOW CHANGES TO RENTAL RESTRICTIONS WITH A SIMPLE MAJORITY VOTE OF THE MEMBERS. FILED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY SERVICES ON BEHALF OF THE CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION. ADRIAN?

>> GOOD EVENING. ADRIAN KEELING WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY SERVICES.I DO NOT HAVE AN EXHIBIT FOR YOU THIS EVENING UNLESS YOU WANT TO LOOK ATWORDS ON THE SCREEN . NOT FOR THIS ITEM ANYWAY.

I'M HIS EVENING WITH THE PROPOSAL TO AMEND THE OWNERS ASSOCIATION STANDARD SECTION OF THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR FUTURE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS TO AMEND THEIR COVENANT RELATED TO RENTAL RESTRICTIONS.

YOU PROVIDE THE BACKGROUND, OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS, WE HAVE BEEN READING AND HEARING ABOUT LARGE OUT-OF-STATE INVESTMENT COMPANIES PURCHASING A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF OWNER OCCUPIED SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES ACROSS INDIANA FOR THE PURPOSE OF TURNING THEM INTO RENTAL UNITS.

WHILE WE ARE NOT AWARE OF ANY CRIMINAL NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE THIS IS OCCURRING OR HAS OCCURRED, IT HAS BEEN A GROWING CONCERN IN SOME OF OUR NEIGHBORING COMMUNITIES.

THE PRESENCE OF RENTALS IS NOT INHERENTLY BAD BUT BULK PURCHASES OF SINGLE-FAMILY HOUSES BY THE INVESTMENT FIRMS CAN REDUCE THE SUPPLY OF AVAILABLE FOR SALE HOMES MAKING IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE PLANNING TO PURCHASE A HOME.

I WILL AFTER THE CITY OF CARMEL DOES NOT PLACE A SECTION ON THE OWNERSHIP OR RENTAL TENURE OF A RESIDENCE AND WE DO NOT INTEND TO DO SO. THOSE DIVISIONS ARE BEST ADDRESSED TO INDIVIDUAL SUBDIVISIONS AND NEIGHBORHOODS THROUGH THE COVENANTS. WE ARE NAVIGATING AND AMENDING COVENANTS CAN BE CHALLENGING, THAT IS WHAT WE HEARD FROM VARIOUS NEIGHBORHOODS. INDIANA CODE ESTABLISHES A FRAMEWORK FOR HOW HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS OPERATE AND MORE SPECIFICALLY, INDIANA CODE SECTION 32 Ã25.5 ÃTHREE Ã NINE. IT REQUIRES HOA GOVERNMENT DOCUMENTS TO RETAIN A PROVISION ALLOWING THE OWNERS TO AMEND THEIR AMENDING DOCUMENTS WITH THE CONSENT OF UP TO 75% OF THE OWNERS. THE PROPOSAL THAT YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU THIS EVENING WOULD ADD A TWO SECTION 7.20, IN THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE.

IT SPECIFICALLY ACKNOWLEDGES THE INDIANA CODE SECTION I JUST PREVIOUSLY REFERENCED BECAUSE OF THE SPECIFIED THAT NO MORE THAN 50% OF THE OWNERS SHALL BE REQUIRED TO CONSENT TO AN AMENDMENT OF THE GOVERNING DOCUMENTS OR COVENANTS SPECIFICALLY RELATED TO RENTAL RESTRICTIONS.

THIS LEAVES THE DECISION OF WHETHER OR NOT TO RESTRICT RENTALS IN THE HANDS OF THE HOMEOWNERS IN THE SUBDIVISION WHILE ALSO RECOGNIZING THAT IT CAN BE CHALLENGING TO AMEND COVENANTS, ESPECIALLY IF THE CONSENT OF 75% OF THE OWNERSHIP IS REQUIRED. THERE ARE LIMITATIONS THAT I WANT TO MENTION. IF THIS ORDINANCE IS ADOPTED, THIS IS NOT A MAN'S - - IS NOT SOMETHING THE CITY CAN DO.

WE CAN'T AMEND ANY EXISTING COVENANTS.THIS WOULD ONLY APPLY TO THE NEWLY FORMED SUBDIVISIONS AND OWNERS ASSOCIATIONS ESTABLISH MOVING FORWARD.

IF ANY SUBDIVISION WOULD LIKE TO PUT RENTAL RESTRICTIONS IN THE COVENANTS, THEY AREFREE TO DO SO .

IF A FUTURE SUBDIVISION DECIDE NOT TO PUT RENTAL RESTRICTIONS IN , BUT THEY WANT TO PUT RENTAL RESTRICTIONS IN THE FUTURE, THIS WILL LIMIT THE CONSENT TO NO MORE THAN 50%.

[01:10:01]

THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU, ADRIAN.

THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING, IS THERE ANYONE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK ON THIS PROPOSAL? YES, MA'AM. WELCOME BACK.

>> KATHY NEWPORT, THE GRAVELLE LEGACY.

TO HER COMMENT ABOUT NOT KNOWING WHETHER THIS WAS GOING ON IN CARMEL NEIGHBORHOODS, IT IS GOING ON AT THE GRAVELLE LEGACY AND IT IS A PROBLEM. UNLESS WE AMEND OUR HOA COVENANTS, THE NEW NEIGHBORHOOD AND THERE ARE AT LEAST 12 RENTALS NOW THAT ARE BOUGHT UP BY SOMEONE, I DON'T KNOW WHO, BUT THAT IS A PROBLEM IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.

>> IS THERE ANYONE ELSE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK? ALRIGHT. ADRIAN COMMIT TO MRS. NEWPORT!, THERE REALLY IS NO WAY FOR THE CITY TO KEEP RECORDS OR TABULATE THE VOLUME OF THIS ISSUE, IS THERE?

>> NOT EASILY. THERE ARE WAYS WE CAN, THE CITY CAN COMPILE MAYBE HOMESTEAD EXEMPTIONS AND THAT KIND OF THING FOR A PARTICULAR GEOGRAPHIC AREA, BUT IT IS SOMETHING MORE SUITED TO SMALLER GEOGRAPHIES SUCH AS

SUBDIVISIONS AND NEIGHBORHOODS. >> OKAY, THANK YOU.IS THERE A DEPARTMENT REPORT BEYOND WHAT WE HAVE HEARD FROM ADRIAN?

>> NOTHING TO ADD, WE WOULD RECOMMEND YOU SUPPORT THE

AMENDMENT, THANK YOU. >> THE PUBLIC HEARING IS CLOSED AT 7:11 P.M. DISCUSSION FROM THE MEMBERS?

CHRISTINE? >> BASED ON MY CASUAL OBSERVATION OVER THE YEARS, IT IS HARD FOR HOA TO GET 75% OF THEIR MEMBERS TO SHOW UP TO VOTE.

LET ALONE CANNOT MAKE THAT THE THRESHOLD.

LOWERING THE THRESHOLD WOULD BE HELPFUL TO THE HOA'S.

IS THERE ANY PLAN TO ROLL THIS OUT TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION MEETINGS AND THAT THE EXISTING HOH KNOW THAT THIS CHANGE IS COMING AND MAYBE GET THEM SOME NEXT STEPS ARE

HELPFUL GUIDANCE ON THIS TOPIC? >> WE CAN CERTAINLY COMMUNICATE WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION NETWORK.

AS A CAVEAT, THIS IS NOT NECESSARILY APPLIED TO THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE ALREADY EXISTING.

EVERY COVENANT DOCUMENT IS DIFFERENT .

THERE MAY ALREADY BE SOME COVENANTS THAT ONLY REQUIRES 50% TO AMEND THEIR COVENANT. BUT, THEY COULD BE MORE THAN THAT, THERE COULD BE UP TO 75%. EACH DOCUMENT IS SO DIFFERENT THAT IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE SOMETHING THAT IS NAVIGATED ON THE SUBDIVISION DOCUMENT BY DOCUMENT BASIS FOR THE EXISTING

NEIGHBORHOODS, AT LEAST. >> THAT MAKES SENSE, THANK YOU.

>> MR. CHAIR? >> MR. KIRSH?

>> THANK YOU. TO ME AS I WAS SUCH A NO-BRAINER. I CANNOT THINK OF ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT THIS DOES NOT BENEFIT AND I DON'T REALLY CARE ABOUT THEM. I MOVE THAT WE APPROVE THIS

TONIGHT. >> YOUR COMMENT IS WELCOME BUT YOUR MOTION IS NOT RECOGNIZED. MS. BUCKLER?

>> SORRY JOSH. I WANT TO BE CLEAR IF I UNDERSTAND THIS. WE ADOPTED SUCH A PROVISION IN OUR HOA RECENTLY AND IT TOOK TWO TRIES BECAUSE OF THE 75% REQUIREMENT. IT WASN'T PEOPLE THAT WAS AGAINST IT TO YOUR POINT, IT IS JUST THE LOGISTICS OF TRYING TO GET 75% OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION TO VOTE ON F THIS IS ADOPTED, IF I'M UNDERSTANDING, THE ANSWER IS NO, BUT I HOPE IF YOU TOLD ME I MISUNDERSTOOD AND THE ANSWER IS YES. CAN A NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION AMEND ITS COVENANTS TO ALLOW FOR 50% MAJORITY VOTE ON THIS

ISSUE? >> ONLY IF THE NEIGHBORHOOD

[01:15:03]

AS DESIRABLE OR AS MUCH OF PEOPLE MY DESIRE THAT PARENTAL RESTRICTIONS ON THE FLIP SIDE OF THINGS, THERE COULD BE INSTANCES FOR THE CITY'S INVOLVEMENT MIGHT NOT BE WELCOMED ON AN EXISTING DOCUMENT.

>> I HAVE FRIENDS ON THE CARMEL NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION REPORT AND IT HAS BECOME AN ISSUE. WE ADOPTED IT AND IT TOOK 75%,

THEY ARE ENTIRELY - -. >> WE WILL EXPAND A LITTLE BIT ON THIS TRIP THE HOA COVENANTS ARE PRIVATE DOCUMENTS.

THEY HAD TO COMPLY WITH ZONING OR STATUTORY, STATE STATUTORY REQUIREMENTS AT THE TIME OF THEIR ADOPTION.

UNFORTUNATELY, OR FORTUNATELY FOR SOME PEOPLE, THIS PARTICULAR AMENDMENT WILL NOT AFFECT PRIVATE CONTRACTUAL DOCUMENTS THAT ARE ALREADY IN PLACE.

THAT IS WHY WE HAVE RECEIVED PERSPECTIVE RATHER THAN

RETRACTED. >> THE PROVERBIAL HOUSE COURSE IS OUT OF THE BARN. AS I WANT TO DO WITH THESE KINDS OF AMENDMENTS, I HAVE A NUMBER OF TECHNICAL CONCERNS WITH WHAT HAS BEEN PROPOSED . STARTING WITH THE MATH AND THE PROPOSED TEXT SAYS THE ASSOCIATION CANNOT REQUIRE THE CONSENT OF MORE THAN 50% OF ALL OWNERS.

IF YOU CAN'T GO ABOVE 50%, WE CAN REACH A MAJORITY.

MAYBE THIS BY DESIGN, THAT MIGHT BE UNATTENDED.

THE OTHER QUESTION IS, THE LANGUAGES 50% OF ALL OWNERS AND AS WAS POINTED OUT EARLIER, GETTING A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF BALLOTS TO BE CAST IS EXTREMELY DIFFICULT FOR MOST OWNERS ASSOCIATIONS. PERHAPS WE WANT TO INSTEAD TARGET THIS WAS AT THE THRESHOLD TO 50% OF THE VOTING OWNERS OR BALLOTS CAST IN ESSENCE.

>> THAT IS NOT THE SCENARIO, IT IS IN PLAY OUT.

>> I HAVE - - PERSPECTIVE AND NOT RETROACTIVE.

WE ARE SETTING THE STANDARD AT CHANGES RELATED TO RENTAL RESTRICTIONS REQUIRE NO MORE THAN 50%, I WILL ASSUME THAT CHANGE, BUT WE DON'T SAY THE DIRECTIONAL NATURE OF THAT CHANGE. IF THE CHANGE IS LESS RESTRICTIVE, WE ARE NOW SAYING THAT YOU CAN'T REQUIRE MORE THAN 50% +1 TO LOOSEN THE RULE , EXCUSE ME, TO TIGHTEN THE RULES, WE REALLY WANT THIS 50% PLUS ONE PRINCIPAL TO ESTABLISH APPLY IN CASES OF LOOSENING THE RULES.

I THINK THE INTENT IS TO MAKE WHOLESALE RENTAL PROPERTIES WERE DIFFICULT, BUT WE DO WANT TO MAKE OTHER DETRIMENTAL CHANGES LESS DIFFICULT, MORE EASY FOR THIS CHANGE ALSO.

I THINK THERE IS A NEED TO FOCUS THIS PROVISION MORE NARROWLY ON THE PROBLEM THAT WE PROCEED WITH RENTAL PROPERTIES THAN JUST GENERIC CHANGES TO THE RENTAL PROPERTY, GOVERNANCE THAT MAY EXIST IN THE PROPOSED HOA SET UP BYLAWS.

SINCE THIS WOULD BE PERSPECTIVE, THERE IS NOT NEED TO BE A DEADLINE FOR COMPLIANCE BECAUSE WE ARE NOT ASKING ANYBODY TO CHANGE THE CURRENT PRACTICES, THIS WOULD JUST BE A

[01:20:01]

>> SINCE THIS IS JUST A GUESS, BE HURT BY THIS COMMISSION.

THAT SPECIFIC REQUIREMENT CAN BE INCORPORATED INTO THE ID LS APPROVAL.IF IT'S NOT DONE, THE BLANK COMMISSION - -. I WOULD IMAGINE THIS WOULD PROBABLY REQUIRE A COURT DETERMINATION. IT'S FAIRLY STRAIGHTFORWARD.

>> A QUESTION I SHOULD PROBABLY KNOW THE ANSWER TO, BUT I CONFESS THAT I DON'T. WHEN A LANDOWNER OR DEVELOPER COMES TO US FOR APPROVAL OF THE PROPOSED SUBDIVISION, WE WILL TAKE THE EXAMPLE WE HEARD EARLIER.

THIS REQUIREMENT MAY NOT BE SATISFACTORY BY THE TIME THE CITY GIVES APPROVAL FOR CONSTRUCTION WORK TO BEGIN.

THE OWNERS ASSOCIATION HAS NOT YET BEEN INFORMED.

I DO KNOW THIS IS NECESSARILY A PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY FOR A DEVELOPER TO GO AHEAD AND TAKE THAT STEP SO THEY CAN DEMONSTRATE THEIR BYLAWS CONFORM TO THIS REQUIREMENT.

NORMALLY I THINK IT WILL BE ACCOMPLISHED MUCH FURTHER DOWN THE ROAD DELIBERATE THE DEPARTMENT IS LOOKING FOR

CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS. >> ONE THAT GETS THEM TO US SO WE CAN HAVE ON FILE IN CASE THEY GET QUESTIONS FROM NEIGHBORS AND TWO, WE LIKE TO - - WHEN THE DEVELOPER HAS MAKING THESE COVENANTS AND CAN GET IT FROM THERE.

WE WOULD NOT WANT THE DEVELOPER TO RESTRICT THAT.

THEY COULD IF THEY WANTED TO COME UP WITH A SECONDARY PLAT MIGHT SAY CAN YOU REMOVE THIS? USUALLY THEY WILL.

OR SOLAR PANELS. THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING OF THE TIME YOU CAN LOOK AS WELL. THEY HAVE 50% IN THERE?

>> I GUESS WE SHOULD MENTION CHICKENS.

>> THE TEXT SAYS IT WILL APPLY TO ZONING DISTRICT CM, COMMERCIAL. IS THIS NOT A PROVISION THAT WE WOULD NOT WANT TO APPLY TO COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS? YOU HAVEN'T OWNERS ASSOCIATION, I WILL TAKE PART WITH EAST FOR EXAMPLE, MULTIPLE OFFICE BUILDINGS, AND AMENITY BUILDING WITH A RESTAURANT INSIDE. THAT BY ITS NATURE IS AN OWNERS ASSOCIATION FILTER PROPERTIES THAT ARE NOT BY DEFINITION RENTALS.NONE OF THEM RESIDENTIAL.

IS THERE AN EXAMPLE WHAT IS APPLICABILITY OF THIS PROVISIO . YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE IT IS APPLIED IN A COMMERCIAL CM DISTRICT?

>> TO START OFF AT A HIGH LEVEL, THE CS, RS, TS AND CM ARE SUBDIVISION TYPES. THIS IS GENERALLY WITH OWNERS ASSOCIATION APPLY WITH PARTICULAR SUBDIVISIONS.

PRESUMABLY AND HAS YET DISCUSSED, THE MOST CONCERNED ARE THE RS, THE RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISIONS.

POTENTIALLY, THE TOWNHOUSE SUBDIVISIONS.

THIS DOESN'T REQUIRE THE RENTAL RESTRICTIONS BE ENABLED OR PUT INTO COVENANTS FOR COMMERCIAL SUBDIVISIONS, FOR EXAMPLE, THERE HAVE ALL RENTAL USES. THIS DOESN'T REQUIRE RENTAL

[01:25:04]

FUTURE. >> OR REMOVED.

BY NOW, THE LANGUAGE SAYS CHANGES RELATED TO RENTAL

RESTRICTIONS. >> RIGHT.

>> OKAY. THAT IS ALL I HAD HERE.

OTHER DISCUSSION? CHRISTINE?

>> TO YOUR POINT, YOU WILL SINISTER THE RESIDENTIAL PCOMMITTEE TO WORK ON PERHAPS CHANGE THAT ONE CLAUSE SO INSTEAD OF SAYING SOMETHING ALONG THE LINES OF INVOLVING CHANGES RELATED TO RENTAL RESTRICTIONS, YOU WANT TO BE MORE SPECIFIC FOR CHANGES RELATED TO ADDING OR SITTING RENTAL RESTRICTIONS? SOMEONE MAY PROVISION? CLARIFY THAT IT'S THOSE THE HIGHER.

THIS IS UP TO 75% OR 50%. IN THEORY, COULD YOU SET THAT IF AN HOA WANTED TO, THEY COULD SET THAT AT ANY PERCENTAGE AS LONG AS IT DID NOT EXCEED 50% RENTAL RESTRICTIONS? IF THEY WANTED TO, THEY COULD DO IT AT 25%?

>> YES, THAT'S CORRECT. >> THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION, IT DEPENDS ON THE WILL OF THE COMMITTEE, THIS OBVIOUSLY GOES TO THE COUNCIL AND THEIR - - THE VERBIAGE OF THE TEXT OF THE CHANGE. IT IS KRYPTONITE WITH THROUGH THE COMMITTEE - - ENDORSED THE CONCEPT AND THAT THE WORDSMITH OCCUR AT THAT LEVEL, THAT IS ONE APPROACH TO TAKE.

THE OTHER IS TO LET A KITTEN AS GOOD OF A FORM AS WE CAN PKNOWING THAT IT IS UP TO THE COUNCIL TO REVIEW IT.

WE HAVE GOT A PROCESS FOR THAT, RIGHT? THEY MADE CHANGES AND IF THE MATING DISPLAY COME BACK TO US OR REFUSE TO ACCEPT. THERE IS ANOTHER, A HOLE IN THE PROCESS TO FOLLOW. WE GET TO SPEND LESS TIME ON THIS NOW AT THE LEVEL OF THE COUNCIL.

>> HISTORICALLY, WE HAVE TAKEN THE TIME TO GET IT RIGHT

THROUGH. >> IT APPEARS THE DISCUSSION IS

NOT QUITE OVER YET. >> WE MAY BE ON THE SAME MENTAL TRACK. RESTRICTIONS, I AM FINE WITH THE WORDING AS IT IS. THAT ALLOWS RESTRICTIONS ONE WAY OR HE OTHER, JUST SPECIFIES RESTRICTIONS.

TO THE POINT THAT I MADE EARLIER, I WILL SEE A THE WORDI FOR THAT PART OF ITS. IF THE COUNCIL WANTS TO AMENDED FURTHER TO BE MORE SPECIFIC, THAT IT ONLY BE TO PREVENT AS OPPOSED TO ALLOW, IS THE COUNCIL'S PREROGATIVE TO DO THAT. WITH THE CHAIRS CONSENT, I WOULD MOVE WE ADOPT THE AMENDMENT, THE PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO COME AS PRESENTED WITH THE AMENDMENT THAT THE 50% +1 OF ALL OWNERS. I AGREE WITH YOU.

I DON'T THINK THAT WAS THE INTENT.

THE ADDING THE WORDS 50% PLUS ONE, THE WORDS OUT OF WOULD BE +1 OF ALL OWNERS, THAT INDICATES YOU HAVE TO HAVE A

MAJORITY VOTING FAVORABLY. >> THE ONLY ISSUE IS HOW IT IS DRAFTED, IT'S UP TO 50%. IN THEORY, AN HOA CAN PICK LESS THAN A MAJORITY. IF THEY WANT TO AMEND THEIR BYLAWS SO IT ONLY REQUIRES25% , THEY COULD THE WAY THIS IS

WRITTEN. >> CAN I INTERJECT FOR JUST ONE PSECOND? I THINK WE PROVIDED STAFF AND COUNCIL SOME SHREWD COMMENTS. I THINK WHAT MAKES MAYBE THE

[01:30:03]

>> I AGREE. >> THAT WOULD BE MY MOTION.

>> I DON'T DISAGREE WITH YOUR COMMENT, BUT THERE'S A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN TWO HAPPENED THE CHANGING THE NUMBER.

GO BACK AND WORK ON IT, WE ARE NOT SENDING IT TO COMMITTEE.

HE WILL SEND IT BACK TO THE - - PASSING IT WITH FAVORABLE RECOMMENDATION OR ALTERNATIVELY WE GIVE IT A THUMBS UP AND IS UP TO COUNCIL TO DO WHAT THEY WANTED.

>> AND THAT WAS A MOTION TO BUY WITH SECOND OF THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE IS NOT A SENSE OF URGENCY.

THAT WOULD BE MY CONCERN WITH MY FINAL VOTE, IS THERE A SENSE

OF URGENCY ON THIS? >> AS FAR AS I KNOW, I TALKED TO CORPORATION COUNCIL ABOUT THE SPECIFIC THING BECAUSE I WAS NOT INVOLVED IN DRAFTING IT.

I BELIEVE THERE IS NO SENSE OF URGENCY AT LEAST TO BRING IT IN OCTOBER. I THINK COUNCIL WILL BE FINE LOOKING IN NOVEMBER, THE INFORMATION I RECEIVED.

ACCORDING TO THAT, IT WOULD BE FINE TO BRING UP FOR ANOTHER HEARING ORSEND IT TO THE COMMITTEE .

>> SO THERE ARE NO HOA IS BEING CREATED BETWEEN NOW AND

OCTOBER? >> I DO BELIEVE THERE IS ANY UNDERLYING REASONING AND THERE IS BEST - -.

>> WITH THE SUPPLY THE PRIMARY PLAT WITH A SECONDARY PLAT?

>> I THINK IT WOULD BE SOMETIME AROUND THE SECONDARY PLAT.

THE RESTRICTIONS WILL STILL BE DRAFTED AT THE DEVELOPMENT STAGE. THE DEVELOPER WILL BE USUALLY THROUGH THE ASSOCIATION AND FORCING THOSE.

THEN THEY WOULD BE TRANSFERRING INTO A SO WE WANTS A CERTAIN DEVELOPMENT IS ACTUALLY COMPLETE.

I WOULD IMAGINE IT WOULD BE THE EERIE EASIEST AND MOST LOGICAL

WOULD BE THE SECONDARY PLAT. >> THE CHAIR HAS HEARD A MOTION FROM MISS BUTLER TO TABLE THOSE TWO NEXT MONTH AND I BELIEVE THE SECOND TWO FROM MR. KIRSH? ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION SAY AYE. ANY OPPOSED? SO IT SHALL BE. THANK YOU FOR INDULGING ME, EVERYONE. WOULD IT MAKE SENSE TO READ THE NEXT TWO DOCKETS AND TOGETHER ADRIAN?

>> THAT'S FINE, WE WILL NEED SEPARATE MOTIONS BECAUSE THEY

ARE SEPARATE ORDINANCES. >> THESE ARE THE SAME REASON ACTIONS ARE TWO DIFFERENT PROPERTIES.

PZ-2023-00185 Z: 154 W. CARMEL DRIVE ÃC1 REZONE. THE APPLICANT SEEKS TO REZONE THE PARCEL LOCATED AT 154 W CARMEL DRIVE FROM THE I1/INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT WITHIN THE RANGE LINE ROAD OVERLAY TO THE C1/CITY CENTER DISTRICT. THE SITE IS GENERALLY LOCATED AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF CARMEL DRIVE AND THE MONON GREENWAY.

THE SECOND SITE IS LOCATED AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OFTHIRD AVENUE SOUTHWEST . FILED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF BOTH ARE COMMUNITY SERVICES ON BEHALF OF THE CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION. ADRIAN?

>> MAYBE IF WE CAN ZOOM IN ON THIS ON THE MAP A LITTLE FURTHER. ADRIAN KEELING WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY SERVICES.HERE WAS THE FIRST OF TWO PROPOSED REZONING'S. THIS IS LOCATED AT THE

[01:35:09]

THEY ARE NEW TO THE EAST OF THE SITE.

THIS IS 3.3 ACRES FROM THE 51 DEPICTED IN THE RANGE LINE OVERLAY TO THE C-130 CENTER DISTRICT.

THE PURPOSE OF THIS REZONING IS TO CONTINUE THE LOCKABLE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN IN THE FUTURE USING THE TOOLS OF THE REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION AND THE C-1 ZONING DISTRICT.

THERE ARE AS MANY OF THESE RESPONSE THAT WE HAVE COMPLETED THE PAST, THIS ONE IS MORE OF A POSITIONING PROPOSAL.

THERE IS NO IMMEDIATE PLAN OR PROJECT PLAN FOR THE SITE AND IN FACT THE BUILDING WILL REMAIN FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE AND ITS CURRENT FORM. THIS IS JUST TO CONTINUE THE ZONING THAT EXISTS IN THE AREA. THE PROSCENIUM IS THE SOUTHERNMOST POINT OF C-1 AND WE ARE PROPOSING TO CONTINUE THIS SOUTHWARD. AS OTHER REZONING'S, WE PROPOSE TO SUSPEND THE RULES AND SEND IT TO THE CITY COUNCIL WITH FAVORABLERECOMMENDATION . HOWEVER IF THERE ARE OTHER QUESTIONS, I WOULD BE HAPPY TO ENTERTAIN THOSE THIS EVENING.

>> EXCELLENT, THANK YOU ADRIAN. WE WILL SKIP THE DEPARTMENT REPORT, WE JUST HEARD IT. PUBLIC HEARING? ANYONE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK ON EITHER OF THESE TWOREZONING PETITIONS ? SEEING NONE, NOW DEPARTMENT

REPORT. >> THIS WOULD ALSO REMOVE THE PROPERTY FROM THE OVERLAY, WANTED TO CLARIFY.

>> YES IT WOULD. >> THANK YOU.

>> WE WOULD RECOMMEND FAVORABLE CONSIDERATION.

>> NECKLACES THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 7:37.

QUESTION FOR MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION?

MR. KIRSH? >> THIS SOUNDS WEIRD BUT I HAVE TREPIDATION ABOUT REMOVING ALL THE INDUSTRIAL FROM A CENTRAL CORE BECAUSE ONCE WE MOVE IT, WE DON'T GET IT BACK.

I'M ALWAYS CONCERNED ABOUT THE FUTURE WILL BE CONSIDERED TO BE INDUSTRIAL NOW MIGHT NOT BE INDUSTRIAL IN THE FUTURE.

IF I WANT TO GIVE MY ROBOT SERVICE RELATED TO LEBANON OR WILL THERE BE AN AREA OFTEN CARMEL FOR WHATEVER HAPPENS IN THE FUTURE. WITH THE C-1, CAN WE STILL LEAVE AND CAVEATS OF INDUSTRIAL AND IT.

I DON'T WANT TO SEE TOXIC WASTE BEING USED ON SITE, BUT I DON'T WANT TO PRECLUDE A STONEMASON OR SOMEBODY THAT IS MORE LIKE INDUSTRIAL TO PRODUCE GOODS IN OUR REGION, IF THAT MAKES SENS

. >> YES, I UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION. I JUST SHUT MY LAPTOP.

I'M TRYING TO QUICKLY REVIVE YOUR SO I CAN LOOK TO PERMITTED USES. SOMETHING LIKE YOU DESCRIBED COULD BE CONSIDERED LIKE MANUFACTURING OR THERE ARE COUPLE OF THE CATEGORIES THAT MAY STILL BE ALLOWED IN C-1.

>> AS YOU ARE LOOKING, MAYBE THAT'S THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION. IN THE LONG RUN, MAYBE THIS COMMISSION CAN LOOK AT WHAT C-1 IS, WHAT THAT LIST IS AND WHAT KINDS OF FUTURE ATTRIBUTES WE MAY WANT TO ADD TO IT.

THINGS THAT WE ARE NOT THINKING ABOUT TODAY THAT I DON'T WANT TO PRECLUDE US FROM HAVING THOSE RESOURCES AT A FUTURE

DATE. >> I HAVE IN FRONT OF ME, C-1

[01:40:03]

WE DO INCLUDE INDUSTRIAL - - THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO, SMALL INDUSTRIAL FACILITIES LIKE FORD OR GM PLANTS.

AND A LOT OF OTHER COMMERCIAL USES THE I WOULD IMAGINE CAN HAVE A SMALL INDUSTRIAL COMPONENT TO IT.

INCLUDING EVERYTHING ELSE THAT FITS INTO COMMERCIAL OR INSTITUTIONAL USE SUCH AS LIBRARY, PUBLIC SERVICE FACILITIES, ETC. IT'S QUITE A CONFERENCE OF DISTRICT.

>> THAT GIVES ME THE PIECE OF MIND I WAS LOOKING FOR, THANK

YOU VERY MUCH. >> DOING TO SUSPEND THE RULES?

>> WE DO IF YOU WILL MAKE A FOLLOW-UP MOTION.

>> I MOVED TO SUSPEND THE RULES SO WE CAN ACT ONTHIS TONIGHT .

>> SECOND. P>> THANK YOU FOR THE MOTION MR BUCKLER, THANK YOU FOR THE SECOND CHRISTINE.

ALL AND MOTION OF SUSPENDING THE RULES TO GO ON THESE TWO THIS EVENING WITHOUT SENDING IT TO COMMITTEE?

THE RULES ARE SUSPENDED. >> I MOVE, I DEFER.

LET'S HEAR THE OTHER ONE AND WE WILL MOVE FOR BOTH OF THEM

TOGETHER. >> VERY WELL.

>> I WILL SHOW THE EXHIBIT FOR THE OTHER C-1 RESULT.

THIS IS A LITTLE FURTHER NORTH OFTHE FIRST SITE THAT I MENTIONED . IT'S A LONG THIRD AVENUE AT CRADLE DRIVE JUST A LITTLE BIT NORTH AND WEST OF CITY HALL HERE. THIS IS AGAIN, ZONED INDUSTRIAL CURRENTLY, IT'S SURROUNDED BY THE NORTH INSTRUCTED ACROSS THE MORE NON- FROM THE MAIN CITY CENTER PROPER THAT MOST PEOPLE ARE FAMILIAR WITH. SAME REASONING, THIS IS ALONG THE MONA GREENWAY, WE ARE TRYING TO CONTINUE THE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN WITH THE TOOLS OF THE C-1 ZONING

DISTRICT. >> THANK YOU.

ANYTHING TO ADD, ALEXIA? >> NO, THANK YOU.

WE RECOMMEND FAVORABLE CONSIDERATION.

>> PARADE. AS A FORMALITY, ANYONE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK ON THIS PART OF THE TWO DOCKETS? SEEING NONE, THE PUBLIC HEARING ON THAT ONE IS CLOSED AT 7:42.

ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? >> I'M OF ADOPTION OF DOCKET ITEMS THREE AND FOUR, THE PZ AND ALL THE STUFF THAT FALLS

AFTER IT. >> I WILL SECOND THAT.

>> THANK YOU BOTH. ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION SAY AYE. ANY OPPOSED? THE MOTION CARRIES.BOTH READ ZONES ARE APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION. THEY CAN CONTINUE WANT TO THE COUNCIL WITH THE FAVORABLE RECOMMENDATION.

THERE IS NO OTHER BUSINESS ON THE AGENDA THIS EVENING, SO WE WILL BE ADJOURNED.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.