Nov 15, 2023 Board of Public Works

[00:00:08]

I WOULD LIKE TO CALL THE MEETING OF THE CARMEL BOARD OF PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY TO ORDER. THIS IS WEDNESDAY NOVEMBER 15,

[1. MINUTES]

THE FIRST ITEM ON THE AGENDA ARE THE MINUTES FROM THE NOVEMBER 1ST 2023 REGULAR MEETING I WASN'T AT THAT THE MEETING SO I

WILL ABSTAIN >> I MOVE APPROVAL.

>> SECOND. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: ANY DISCUSSION? SO IT HAS BEEN MOVED AND APPROVED TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES PRESENT BY THE CLERK.

ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE. >> AYE.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: ABSTAIN ED MEEMEET

[2. BID OPENING AND AWARD]

THE FIRST ITEM IS THE BID OPENING FOR TARKINGTON LIGHTING.

>> FIRST ONE FROM FREDERICKS. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: FROM FREDERICKS, INC. PENDLETON, INDIANA.

THEIR BID $725,000. >> JAMES BABCOCK INC.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: THIS IS JAMES BOB COULD BE, INC. OF INDIANAPOLIS, INDIANA. THEIR BID IS $840,500.

THIS BID IS FROM -- NOT ORGANIZED LIKE THE OTHERS.

LET ME FIND IT. BARTH ELECTRIC COMPANY OF INDIANAPOLIS, INDIANA THEIR BY IS $703,038.

IS THAT IS IT? THREE BIDS.

TURN IT OVER TO YOU, CRYSTAL. LOOKS LIKE BARTH IS THE LOWEST.

THANK YOU. YOU WILL COME BACK AT THE NEXT MEETING? OKAY.

NEXT WE HAVE A QUOTATION OPENING FOR ASPHALT REPAIRS THROUGH THE

STREET DEPARTMENT. >> HOWARD CARMEL COMPANIES.

THIS IS THE ONLY ONE. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: THIS BID IS FROM HOWARD COMPANIES OF INDIANAPOLIS, INDIANA.

COST $15.15 PER SQUARE YARD, TOTAL $137,175.

THIS SOURCE ONLY QUOTATION. WE WILL HAVE THE STREET DEPARTMENT LOOK AT IT TO SEE IF IT IS APPROPRIATE.

[3. PERFORMANCE BOND REDUCTION APPROVAL REQUEST]

THERE IS A MOTION TO APPROVE. STAFF RECOMMENDED THIS BOND BE

RELEASED. >> I MOVE APPROVAL.

>> SECOND. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: ANY DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE, PLEASE INDICATE BY

SAYING AYE. >> AYE.

>> AYE. WE HAVE SEVERAL ITEMS DEALING WITH AN ISSUE I THINK A LOT OF YOU ARE HERE FOR.

ABSENT OBJECTION FROM THE BOARD, I WOULD LIKE TO IF THROUGH THE REST OF THE AGENDA AND THEN RETURN TO THOSE ITEMS.

[4. CONTRACTS (Part 1 of 2)]

>> I THINK THAT IS A GOOD IDEA. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: GET EVERYTHING ELSE OUT OF THE WAY. SO WE WILL GO TO 4-F REQUEST FOR PURCHASE OF GOODS AND SERVICES FROM HOOSIER FIRE EQUIPMENT.

[00:05:05]

>> I MOVE APPROVAL OF 4-F. >> SECOND.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: ANY DISCUSSION OR QUESTIONS OF THE FIRE CHIEF? HEARING NONE, ALL IN FAVOR PLEASE SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE.

>> AYE. >> AYE.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: AYE. 4-F PASSES UNANIMOUSLY.

NEXT 4-G, CONTRACT WITH KENTWOOD OFFICE FURNITURE, INC. AT $14,269.3. ADDITIONAL SERVICES AMENDMENT ADD ON TO HAND EXISTING CONTRACT FOR FURNITURE FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT. IS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE.

>> I MOVE APPROVAL. >> SECOND.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: ANY DISCUSSION OR QUESTIONS ON THIS CONTRACT? HEARING NONE, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF APPROVING -G.

INDICATE BY SAYING AYE. >> AYE.

>> AYE. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: AYE.

PASSES UNANIMOUSLY. 4-H, REQUEST PURCHASE OF GOODS AND SERVICES TOUCHPHRASE DEVELOPMENT DOING BUSINESS AS JUL OOHTA, MENTAL HEALTH SOFTWARE FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT AND POLICE DEPARTMENT SHARED SOFTWARE IN THE AMOUNT OF

15,246.26. >> MOVING APPROVAL OF 4-H.

>> SECOND. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: ANY DISCUSSION ON THIS CONTRACT OR QUESTIONS? HEARING NONE, INDICATE BY SAYING

AYE. >> AYE.

>> AYE. >> AYE.

4-H PASSES. 4-I.

ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF A CONTRACT PREVIOUSLY DINED BY CITY AND GOVERNMENT JOBS.COM DOING BUSINESS AS NEOGOV AS $10,573.20, ANNUAL SUBSCRIPTION RENEWAL AND ADDITIONAL SERVICE AMENDMENT THROUGH THE CONTRACTING POLICE DEPARTMENT.

IS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE 4-I.

>> I MOVE APPROVAL. >> SECOND.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: ANY DISCUSSION ON THIS CONTRACT? HEARING NONE ALL IN FAVOR OF APPROVING 4-I, RESOLUTION 11-15-23-01 PLEASE INDICATE BY SAYING AYE.

>> AYE. >> AYE.

>>. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: AYE.

IT PASSES UNANIMOUSLY. NEXT WE HAVE 4-J CENTER FOR THE PERFORMING ARTS FACILITY RENTAL FOR AN EVENT THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY RELATIONS.

IN THE AMOUNT OF 3,033.25. IS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE.

>> I MOVE APPROVAL. >> SECOND.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: ANY DISCUSSION? QUESTIONS ON THIS ITEM? HEARING NONE, ALL IN FAVOR OF APPROVING 4-J INDICATE BYING A~ AYE.

>> AYE. >> AYE.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: AYE. 4-J PASSES UNANIMOUSLY.

NEXT WE HAVE 4-K, A CONTRACT WITH TAYLOR REALTY GROUP, PROFESSIONAL PONTE VEDRA AMOUNT OF $4380 FOR COLLEGE AVENUE RECONSTRUCTION. PARCELS 4 AND 5, SECOND APPRAISALS ADDITIONAL SERVICES 5789 FROM THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT. A MOTION TO APPROVE 4-K.

>> I MOVE APPROVAL. >> SECOND.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: ANY DISCUSSION OR QUESTIONS ON THIS ITEM? HEARING NONE, ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE APPROVING 4-K PLEASE

INDICATE BY SAYING AYE. >> AYE.

>> AYE. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: SHOULD NOTE THAT THEY HAVE BEEN STAMPED BY CITY LEGAL AND BY THE DEPARTMENT

HEAD APARTMENT. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: 4-L, FOR THE CITY AND VENDOR SUE WARD JOHNSON ATELIER.

FOR DZ 53,000 FOR SCULPTURE OF AN INDIAN FAMILY.

>> I MOVE APPROVAL. >> SECOND.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: ANY DISCUSSION OR QUESTIONS ON THIS COMMENT?

>> NO, I AM SORRY. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: ALL IN FAVOR,

SAY AYE INDICATE BY SAYING AYE. >> AYE.

>> AYE. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: AYE.

4-L IS APPROVED UNANIMOUSLY. 4-M, REQUEST FOR GOODS AND SERVICES WITH MAIN SCAPE, INC. $102,700 FOR JANITORIAL SERVICES FOR CHRIST YOU KINDLMARKT. A MOTION TO APPROVE 4-M.

>> I MOVE APPROVAL. >> SECOND.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: ANY DISCUSSION OF THE QUESTION OF THE STREET DEPARTMENT ON THIS CONTRACT? HEARING NONE, PLEASE INDICATE

APPROVAL OF 4-M. >> I MOVE APPROVAL.

[5. REQUEST TO USE CITY STREETS/PROPERTY]

>> AYE IN. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: AYE.

IT IS UNANIMOUS. 4-M APPROVED.

NEXT WE HAVE REQUEST TO CLOSE CITY STREETS OR PROPERTY FOR VARIOUS REASONS-5-A, REQUEST TO USE MONON AND MAIN PLAZA AND SOPHIA SQUARE MAY 18,2024, 8 A.M. TO 10 A.M.

[00:10:04]

A MOTION. >> I MOVE APPROVAL OF 5-5.

>> SECOND. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: ANY DISCUSSION. ALL IN FAVOR OF APPROVING 5-A.

>> AYE. >> AYE.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: AYE. I SHOULD MENTION THAT ALL THESE REQUESTS TO USE CITY STREETS AND PROPERTY HAVE BEEN VETTED THROUGH SEVERAL CITY DEPARTMENTS INCLUDING PUBLIC SAFETY, BOTH FIRE, POLICE AND THE DEPARTMENT ORIGINAL MEETING THE REQUEST.

>> WAIT, COMBINE APPROVAL OF 5-B THROUGH I OF USING -- 5-B

THROUGH I. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: LET'S TAKE

THEM ALL SEPARATELY. >> OKAY.

THAT'S EVEN IF. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: SO ALL IN FAVOR. WE APPROVED 5-A.

LET'S GO TO 5-B, THIS IS TO USE ADDITIONAL PARKING SPACES ON THIRD AVENUE ON SPECIFIC DATES CARMEL CHRIST KINDLMARKT NOVEMBER 24, 25, ALL DAY, DECEMBER 8, THE, 15, 16, 17, ALL SOMEDAY, DECEMBER 10 FROM 10 A.M. TO 3 P.M. AND DECEMBER 18, FROM 10 A.M. TO 12 P.M. MOTION TO MOVE 5-B.

>> I MOVE APPROVAL. >> SECOND.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: MOVED AND SECONDED.

A MOTION. ANY DISCUSSION ON 5-B? ALL IN FAVOR OF APPROVING 5-B PLEASE INDICATE BY SAYING AYE.

>> AYE. >> AYE.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: AYE. 5-B PASSIONS UNANIMOUSLY.

5-C, REQUEST FOR OCCASIONAL VEHICLE ACCESS ON MONON TRAIL FROM THE CARMEL CHRIST KINDL MARKET NOVEMBER 13-TEASE 31, VARIOUS MILES PER HOUR FOR DAILY VENDOR ACCESS.

A MOTION TO APPROVE 5-C. >> I MOVE APPROVAL OF 5-C IS.

>> SECOND. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: ANY DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE, ALL IN FAVOR OF APPROVING 5-C, PLEASE INDICATE BY SAYING AYE.

>> AYE. >> AYE.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: 5-C IS APPROVED UNANIMOUSLY.

NEXT WE HAVE -- STILL IN THE FUTURE.

5-D, REQUEST USE CIVIC SQUARE GAZEBO LAWN FOR DIWALI EVENT.

OUR CARMEL COMMUNITY IS CELEBRATING NOVEMBER 25, 2023 FROM 4-9. A MOTION TO APPROVE 5-D.

>> I MOVE APPROVAL OF 5-D. >> SECOND.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: ANY DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE. ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE.

THEN THERE IS A REQUEST FOR APPROVAL TO USE THE CIVIC SQUARE FOUNTAIN AREA AND REST ROOMS AND THE LAWN OF JAPANESE GARDEN FOR A BEDDING ON NOVEMBER 11, WHICH IS IN THE PAST.

WE CAN APPROVE IT RETROACTIVELY. I WENT AAND GAVE PERMISSION.

LET'S RATIFY IT. 5-E.

A MOTION TO APPROVE. >> I MOVE APPROVAL OF 5-E.

>> SECOND. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE. 5-F IS REQUEST TO USE MIDTOWN PLAZA FOR OUTDOOR HOLIDAY MUSIC EVENT DECEMBER 7, 2024 1 TO 5.

FROM THE CARMEL PORCHFEST. >> I MOVE APPROVAL.

>> SECOND. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: ANY DISCUSSION. ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE.

> AYE. >> AYE.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: AYE. 4-F IS APPROVED.

WE HAVE NOW 4--- EXCUSE ME 5-F IS APPROVED.

5-G, REQUEST TO USE PARK CAN SPOTS FOR THE HOLIDAY TROLLEY FOR THE CARMEL HOLIDAY TROLLEY FRIDAY AND SATURDAY FROM NOVEMBER 24-DECEMBER 23, 5 TO THE P.M. ON FRIDAYS AND P.M. TO 9 P.M. ON SATURDAYS. IS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE

5-G? >> I MOVE APPROVAL OF 5-G.

>> SECOND. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE.

HEARING NO DISCUSSION OF APPROVING 5-G, INDICATE BY

SAYING AYE. >> AYE.

>> AYE. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: AYE.

5-H, REQUEST TO USE CITY STREETS AND ITS SOPHIA SQUARE REST ROOMS FOR STREET THE FEAR JUNE 15, 2024 FROM 2 P.M. TO 1 A.M., FROM LATE NIGHT ON MAIN AND CARMEL PORCH FEST.

A MOTION TO APPROVE 5-H. >> I MOVE APPROVAL.

>> SECOND. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: HEARING NONE.

ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE. >> AYE.

>> AYE. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: AYE.

5-H IS APPROVED UNANIMOUSLY. NEXT WE HAVE A REQUEST TO CLOSE CITY STREETS AND USE SO HE FOR A I CAN'T SQUARE REST ROOMS FOR A STREET PARTY JULY 20, WATER TO 2 P.M. TO 1 A.M. FROM LIGHT NIGHT ON MAIN AND CARMEL PORSCHE FEST FEST.

>> I MOVE APPROVAL OF 56-I. >> SECOND.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: ALL DISCUSSION ON THIS REQUEST.

[00:15:05]

[6. OTHER]

>> AYE. >> AYE.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: AYE 375-I IS APPROVED UNANIMOUSLY NEXT THE MOVE FOR A CATEGORY OF OTHER. REQUEST FOR A SECONDARY PLAT FIVE-TEN SUBDIVISION FROM TOM LAZZARA CUSTOM LIVING USA.

TABLED ON 10/4/23. READY TO REMOVE FROM THE TABLE.

THERE WILL NOBODY MOTION TO -- SOMETHING DISAGREES TO REMOVE IT FROM THE TABLE. SO WE WILL MOVE CONTINUE TO 6-B, REQUEST FOR WAIVER OF BPW, RESOLUTION 4-28-17-01 FOR LANE RESTRICTIONS INSTALLATION OF A NEW WOOD MID SPAN POLE ALDER BROOK TRAIL. A MOTION TO APPROVE 6-B.

>> I MOVE APPROVAL OF 6-B. >> SECOND.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: DISCUSSION. HEARING NONE, ALL IN FLAVOR OF APPROVING 6-B, PLEASE UP KATE BY SAYING AYE.

>> AYE. >> AYE.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: 6-B IS APPROVED.

A CONSENT UNDER 6-C TO ENCROACH FOR A VARIANCE OF 14159 KODIAK DRIVE FROM THE PROPERTY HONOR TER RECOGNIZE EDWARDS.

RECOMMENDED BY CITY THIS BE APPROVED.

A MOTION TO APPROVE. >> I MOVE APPROVAL.

>> SECOND. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: ANY DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE, ALL IN FAVOR APPROVING 6-C PLEASE INDICATE BY SAYING AYE.

>> AYE. >> AYE MARY 6-C APPROVED UNANIMOUSLY. 6-D, REQUEST FOR A CURB CUT AND VACATION AT 441 2ND AVENUE FROM WEDGWOOD BUILDERS.

>> I MOVE APPROVAL WITH THE CONDITIONS BEING MET.

>> SECOND. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: THIS IS RECOMMENDED BY CITY STAFF AFTER REVIEW.

HEARING NO DISCUSSION, CALL THE QUESTION.

ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE OF 6-D, PLEASE INDICATE BY SAYING AYE.

6-D IS APPROVED UNANIMOUSLY. NEXT WE HAVE 6-E, REQUEST FOR A GRANT OF PERPETUAL STORMWATER QUALITY MANAGEMENT EASEMENT, 111TH AND SPRINGMILL ROAD FROM THE STEADMAN APARTMENTS, BRIDGES APARTMENTS LIMITED LIABLE PONTE VEDRA.

APPROVED BY STAFF AND RECOMMENDED FOR APPROVAL.

A MOTION TO MOVE 6-E. >> I MOVE APPROVAL.

>> SECOND. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: ANY DISCUSSION ON HIS ITEM? HEARING NONE, ALL IN FAVOR OF APPROVING 6-E, INDICATE BY SAYING AYE.

>> AYE. >> AYE.

[Additional Item]

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: AYE. 6-E IS APPROVED UNANIMOUSLY.

SAYS AN ADD-ON ITEM. WHAT IS THAT ITEM?

>> GOOD MORNING, SERGIO, OFFICE OF ECONOMIC COUNSEL.

THREE ITEMS AND RELATED TO THE SAME COMPANY.

THE FIRST IS A MASTER SERVICES AGREEMENT OUT OF BLOOMINGTON, INDIANA. THAT IS IS THE AGREEMENT TO CONTROL ALL FUTURE SHOWS, TERMS AND CONDITIONS ON A PALADSCOPE.

THE DIGITAL PROJECTIONS. SECOND ITEM IS A WORK ORDER TO TWO SHOWS -- UPCOMING FOR CHRIST KINDLE MART AND FESTIVAL OF ICE.

THAT ONE FOR $110,000. THE CITY'S PORTION IS $50,000.

AND THAT IS INDICATED IN Y YOUR P.O.

CARMEL REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION WILL COVER THE REST OF IT.

THEN THE FINAL ITEM IS ANIMATE NANCE AGREEMENT FOR EQUIPMENT THAT IS INSTALLED ON KACARTER GREEN, WITH LOW CAL STUDIOS OUT

OF BLOOMINGTON, INDIANA. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: A MOTION TO

ADD THREE ITEMS TO THE AGENDA. >> I MOVE ALL THREE TO THE

AGENDA. >> SECOND.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE.

THEY HAVE BEEN ADDED TO THE AGENDA.

IS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE ITEM 1?

>> I MOVE APPROVAL. >> SECOND.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: ANY DISCUSSION OR QUESTIONS? ALL IN FAVOR THEN, PLEASE INDICATE BY SAYING AYE.

>> AYE. >> AYE.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: I SHOULD MENTION FOR THE RECORDS ITEM 1 IS APPROVED UNANIMOUSLY. ITEM 2, A MOTION TO APPROVE IT?

>> I MOVE APPROVAL. >> SECOND.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE INDICATE BY SAYING AYE.

>> AYE. >> AYE.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: ITEM 2 IS APPROVED UNANIMOUSLY.

[00:20:01]

A MOTION TO APPROVE ITEM 3? >> I MOVE APPROVAL, SORRY.

>> SECOND. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: MOVED AND SECONDEDED TO APPROVE ITEM 3 OF THE ADD-ONES.

ANY DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE, ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE OF APPROVING ITEM 3 INDICATE BY SAYING AYE.

ITEM IS APPROVED UNANIMOUSLY. THANK YOU.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: THANK YOU. NOW WE HAVE FIVE ITEMS.

[4. CONTRACTS (Part 2 of 2)]

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: IT HAS BEEN POINTED OUT I FAILED TO CALL FOR A VOTE ON 4-M, REQUEST FOR GOODS AND SERVICES INTO MAINSCAPE.

WE DIDN'T MOVE IT INTO BUSINESS AND LET'S DO IT AGAIN TO DO IT PROPERLY, $102,700 FOR JANITORIAL CONFERS FOR THE CHRISKINDL MART. THROUGH THE STREET DEPARTMENT.

IS THERE A MOTION. >> I MOVE APPROVAL.

>> SECOND. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: MOVED AND SECONDED. ANY DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE, ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE OF APPROVING 4-M, PLEASE

INDICATE BY SAYING AYE. >> AYE.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: AYE. >> AYE.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: IT HAS BEEN APPROVED UNANIMOUSLY.

4-M. THANKS FOR POINTING THAT OUT TO ME. THESE FIVE ITEMS. 4-A,B, C-ANDD AND E. 4-A WAS TABLED ON 11/1/23.

ITEMS WITH THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND PARK IMPROVEMENTS.

A CREDIT AGAINST THE PARKS AND RECREATION IMPACT FEES SENDING THE MONEY INTO THE REDEVELOPMENT COMMI COMMISSIONS URBAN PARK FUND. THIS IS SOMEWHAT CONTROVERSIAL.

SOME PEOPLE HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT IT.

WE NORMALLY DON'T ALLOW PUBLIC COMMENTS.

NOT REQUIRED BY STATE LAW OR CITY LAW AT THESE MEETINGS, BUT I SEE SEVERAL FRIENDS IN THE AUDIENCE THAT PROBABLY WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK. I WILL OPEN IT UP.

IF YOU WANT TO TELL US -- I THINK WE ARE WELL AWARE FROM THE NEWSPAPER AND THE MEETING LAST NIGHT OF SOME OF THE THOUGHTS.

I WILL HAVE SOME COMMENTS. AND I WILL START MY COMMENTS -- I WILL RESERVE AFTER OTHERS SPEAK ADDITIONAL COMMENTS.

BUT WHAT DISTURBED ME IS THE WAY THIS HAS BEEN APPROACHED BY SOME OF MY FRIENDS EVERYBODY IS TRYING TO MR. A GREAT CITY AND IN MANY CASES DOING IT WITH LIMITED RESOURCES.

SADDENED MY HEART WHEN I SEE THINGS TOSSED AROUND ABOUT STEALING, ABOUT BAD FAITH, ABOUT DOING THINGS ILLEGALLY.

ALL THESE THINGS HAVE BEEN -- GUILT MORE INTO THIS LATER.

RENOVATING THIS. THE CITY IS DOING THIS PROPERLY AND WHEN PEOPLE ACCUSE EACH OTHER OF DOING THINGS IMPROPERLY. THAT IS NOT THE CASE IN THE SITUATION. IF THE RANCOR THAT GOES WITH IT IS INCREDIBLY INAPPROPRIATE. HOW TO BEST OPERATE THE CITY AND TAKES A GROUP OF PEOPLE WORKING TOGETHER TO DO IT WHICH WE HAVE DONE WELL EVERY MANY YEARS. WITH THAT STATEMENT SAID, ANYBODY LIKE TO TALK OF THIS ISSUE BEFORE WE TAKE AND AS IT AS BOARD. MR. SNYDER.

>> GO AHEAD. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: MEMBER OF THE TOWNSHIP BOARD AND COUNCILMEMBER ELECT.

CONGRATULATIONS. >> I'M HERE AS A MEMBER OF THE TOWNSHIP BOARD. AND I WOULD AGREE WITH THE MAYOR'S STATEMENTS THAT THE RANK RANCOR AND ANIMOSITY IS UNCALLED FOR. I'M HERE, I GUESS TO, TO PLAY A LITTLE BIT OF BOTH SIDES. WHEN THE PARK IMPACT FEES WERE ESTABLISHED, IT WAS UNDERSTOOD, AT LEAST AT THE TIME, THAT THEY WERE BEING BUILT TO GOLF TO THE PARKS WITH THE ASSUMPTION AS MORE PEOPLE MOVED INTO THESE DEVELOPMENTS, THEY WOULD HAVE A GREATER IMPACT ON 9 ASSETS OF THE PARKS DEPARTMENT MAINTAINS

[00:25:12]

AND THEY GOT DIVERTED TO THINGS THAT MADE THIS CITY THE GREATEST CITY IN THE UNITED STATES. THE MONON BOULEVARD.

ASSETS TOO GO WITH IT AND ENHANCEMENTS OF ALL THE DEVELOPMENTS DOWNTOWN. WHERE I HAVE CONCERNS IS TWO WEEKS AGO, THE 4.7 MILLION FOR A DEVELOPMENT AT 111TH AND PENNSYLVANIA WAS BROUGHT UP. SO FAR THE IMPACT FEES HAVE BEEN WAIVED TO GO TO THE URBAN CORE. AND NOR CAN I WRAP MY HEAD OR THE TOWNSHIP OF 111TH AND PENNSYLVANIA TO BE PART OF THE YOU ARE BEEN A CORE. IF IT IS PART OF THE URBAN CORE SO IS THE M ONON CENTER. SPEAKING IN MY COUNTY AS THE TOWNSHIP BOARD. LAST 40 REARS, $40 MILLION.

AND THE LAST 20 YEARS, $150 MILLION.

AND WE HAD TO BORROW THAT MONEY ON THE BACKS OF THE TAXPAYERS.

WE COULD NOT -- MOVING FORWARD, THE PARKS DEPARTMENT HAVE PLENTY INITIATIVES THEY WOULD LIKE TO ACCOMPLISH.

THE WAY TO DO IT WITHOUT TAKING THE MONEY DIRECTLY FROM THE TAXPAYERS AND DOING IT THE WAY THIS PARK IMPACT FEE WAS SET UP I THINK THAT IS THE PRUDENT MOVE.

WE DO SOME CONCERNS AND I WILL NOT SAY THAT THE CITY HAS DEFERRED EVERYTHING ILLEGAL. THE PROCESS IT GOES ABOUT MAY NOT BE KOSHER WITH THE WAY IT IS SET UP.

CASH WAL-MARTS BEING MADE TO THE CRC.

THAT IS ONE ISSUE AND THE OTHER ONE IS WHEN RUN IS PAID TO DEVELOPERS IN LIEU OF THE PARKS, THOSE ASSETS TO BE TRANSFERRED HAND THIS DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE HAPPENING.

I NOTICED JUST TODAY, THERE ARE THREE TIMES YOU ALL VOTED ON.

PROPERTIES NOT OWNED BY THE CITY OF CARMEL.

I THINK -- >>MAYOR BRAINARD: SORRY, I AM

NOT FOLLOWING. >> THE SOPHIA SQUARE, FOR INSTANCE IS OWNED BY SOMETHING CALLED CARDINAL LOFTS ON

PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE DOWNTOWN. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: THAT IS NOT CORRECT, THE CITY HAS PROPERTY RIGHTS ON THE SURFACE OF THE

PLAZA. >> THOSE ARE THINGS THAT I THINK NEED TO BE CLEARED UP AND WHERE MISUNDERSTANDING ARE FLOATING

AROUND. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: ONE OF THE THINGS WE LEARNED THE FIRST WEEK OF LAW SCHOOL, THAT BUNDLE STAKES. SOMEBODY MAY OWN THE BASEMENT AND SOMEBODY ELSE MAY OWN WHAT IS ABOVE.

THAT IS VERY COMMON IN MORE COMPLICATED PROPERTY DEALS, BUT IN THIS CASE, THE PLAZA ITSELF IS OWNED BY THE TAXPAYERS.

>> THAT'S NOT WHY I'M HERE. TO ADVOCATE ON BEHALF OF THE TOWNSHIP THAT THE PARK IMPACT FEES BE USED FOR THEIR INTENT.

A STRONG DESIRE AND $1 50 MILLION OFAXPAYER MONEY INVESTED IN THE CARMEL PARKS. AND TO USE THIS MONEY TO BUILD UP SUCH PARKS AS BEAR CREEK. THOMAS MARCHELLI AND OTHER THINGS IN THE PARKS MASTER PLAN VETTED BY THE PUBLIC.

THAT IS ALL I'M HERE TO SAY. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: THANK YOU.

VERY WISE CITY COUNCILMAN TOLD ME A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO, YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO FIND OUT WHAT THE OBJECTION IS.

YOUR OBJECTIONS WERE WHAT DIFFERENT THAN I THOUGHT FROM READING THE PAPERS. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: ANYONE ELSE?

RICH. >> YES, SIR.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: PRESIDENT OF OUR PARKS BOARD.

ALSO COUNCILMEMBER-ELECT. WELCOME.

>> THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY WHEN IT IS NOT NORMALLY APPLIED TO THE BOARD OF PUBLIC WORKS. LAST EVENING, THERE WAS A PRESENTATION BY MIC MICHAEL KLITSING, LONG-TIME PARKS DIRECTOR AND BOARD MEMBER MARK WESTERMEYER FORMER PARKS DIRECTED IRAND MR. IS A FWARSSON, PARKS BOARD MEMBER AS WELL. TOURING THE PRESENTATION, A COUPLE OF THINGS SHARED. A LEGAL OPINION RELATED TO THE CREDITS THAT THE ARE AMRIERD AND THEN A PAYMENT IN LIEU OF CREDIT EQUALLING THE SAME AMOUNT IS PAID TO THE CARMEL REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION. AND THEN -- THEN THERE IS SOME LEGAL OPINIONS THAT THE WAY THOSE FUND ARE LATER APPLIED ARE NOT USE CORRECTLY BASED ON THE CITY'S OWN ORDINANCE AND THE STATE STATUTE. SOMETHING FOR JOHN, BRIAN AND THE TOWNSHIP AND EVERYBODY TOO DISCUSS -- BUT IN FRONT OF YOU I

[00:30:07]

WE WERE SURPRISED BY THE ADDITIONAL $5 MILLION OF CASH PAYMENTS BEING REQUESTED ON TODAY'S AGENDA.

SO THAT -- AND JUST TO BE CLEAR, THESE ARE WHERE THE IMPACT FEES ARE BEING CREDITED BACK TO THE DEVELOPER, BUT THEN THE DEVELOPER IS BEING ASKED TO MAKE A CASH PAYMENT TO THE CARMEL REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION TO FUND 902.

WE ARE NOT SO SURE IF IT GOT DEPOSITED TO CASH FUND 403.

AND HOW THIS ARE THOSE FUNDS PLANNED USED.

DURING MICHAEL'S PRESENTATION, SOME OF THE USE OF THE IMPACT FEE I WAS NOT NECESSARILY AWARE OF UNTIL LAST EVENING.

FOR EXAMPLE, A COUPLE OF PROJECTS AND HARD TO JUSTIFY THEM TO BE CONSIDERED PARK IMPROVEMENT OR PARK AMENITIES.

NOT DISPUTING ALL THE AMENITIES BEING PROPOSED IN THE 111TH AND PENN WAIVER. MICHAEL HAS NOT HAD ENOUGH TIME TO DISCUSS THOSE PARK IMPROVEMENT WITH HENRY MASTEKI.

AND CASH PAYMENTS IN LIEU OF THIS IS THE BIG CONCERN AND WHAT CAUSED THE UPROAR. IF THAT MAKES SENSE THREE MATTERS. ONE IS AND THERE ARE SOME DISPUTES THAT I THINK THERE ARE DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN THE PARKS BOARD AND THE PARK STAFF. NUMBER TWO, WE HAVE LEGAL COUNCIL WHO HAPPENS -- HAPPENS TO ALSO REPRESENT THE TOWNSHIP THAT BELIEVES WHEN A CREDIT IS APP APPLIED. IF A CREDIT IS APPLIED AND THE DEVELOPER PAYS AS CREDIT, THAT MONEY IS NOT LOST HAND THIS MONEY IS IN EFFECT FOR IMPACT FEES AND SHOULD BE USED WITH THE ALLOWED USES UNDER THE IMPACT FEE UNDER THE CITY'S IN THE UDO AND ALSO STATE STATUTE. THE THIRD MATTER IS THAT THESE $5 MILLION OF CASH PAYMENTS SHOWED UP ON THE AGENDA.

IT HAS BEEN SAID THAT MICHAEL HAS BEEN INCLUDED IN THESE POSITIONS AND DISCUSSED WHEN THESE IMPACT FEES WERE GOING TO BE CREDITED AND HOW THEY ARE GOING TO BE APPLIED WILL BE INCLUDED IN THOSE CONVERSATIONS AND MICHAEL UNFORTUNATELY FOUND OUT ABOUT THEM FROM A NEWS REPORTER WHO HAS BEEN FOLLOWING THE MATTERS. THOSE ARE THE TWO ISSUES WHY I'M HERE. AND I ASK TO YOU READ THE RESOLUTION PASSED BY THE PARKS BOARD.

I ASK IF YOU WOULD MIND TABLING THESE MATTERS UNTIL THEY CAN DISCUSS THEM FURTHER AND HAVE A RESOLUTION OF THOSE THREE ISSUE S I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU, MAYOR.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: I DON'T SEE ANYBODY RUNNING UP TO THE

MICROPHONE. >> WE HAVE A HAND RAISED.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: JIM GARRISON, A LONG-TIME CARMEL RESIDENT.

>> AT MY AGE, I AM GETTING TIRED OF THAT PHRASE "LONG TIME." I WANT TO START -- I HAVE BEEN ON THE PARK BOARD NINE YEARS, BUT I WANT TO START BY SAYING WHEN YOU ARE IN YOUR SWAN SONG HERE, CARMEL WILL NOT BE WHAT IT IS TODAY WITHOUT YOUR PRISON.

[00:35:02]

AND -- BUT WHAT I DO HAVE A CONCERN IN MY FELINE YEARS OF THE PARK BOARD, TO ME THE SERIOUS ISSUE THAT HAS RISEN OVER THE LAST TWO OR THREE YEARS THAT CORRESPOND TO THE VERSION OF THESE MONIES TO THE CRC OPPOSED TO LETTING THE PARK BOARD USE THE FUNDS. WE ARE MANDATED BY THE CITY TOWNSHIP BOARD NOT TO USE MONEY ON THE COMMUNITY CENTER AND WE HAVE NOT EXCEPT DURING COVID AND HAVE RESERVES COVERING THAT.

WE ARE FACED WITH -- I MIGHT ADD THIS PRECIPITATED ASKING FOR THESE FUNDS FOR IMPACT. AND I THINK THE LEGISLATURE EMPHASIZED -- STATE LEGISLATURE RECOGNIZED THE NEED FOR THEM.

I AM CONCERNED THAT THINGS LIKE FISHER IS GOING TO START GETTING TOWNSHIP MONEY WE ARE GETTING FOR THE PARKS.

WE ARE LOSING THAT REVENUE. SECONDLY, THE SCHOOL BOARD HAS INCREASINGLY ALMOST EVERY YEAR STARTED SCHOOL EARLIER AND EARLIER AND EARLIER. TO DO THAT IT AFFECTS THE REVENUE AT THE WATER PARK AND THE WATER PARK IS THE MAIN SOURCE OF REVENUE WE HAVE IN THE PARK SYSTEM.

PEOPLE DON'T GO TO USE PLAYGROUND EQUIPMENT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. WE MAKE MONEY.

I THINK WE OPERATE ABOUT 103%. SOMETHING LIKE THAT OF COST RECOVERY. BUT THAT IS NOT GOING TO BE ENO ENOUGH.

WHEN YOU MOVE THE DATE OF THE START OF SCHOOLS TO THE FIRST WEEK OF AUGUST, WE NOT ONLY LOSE REVENUE FROM KIDS AND FAMILIAR TREES WILL USE THE POOL, WE ALSO USE LIFEGUARD AND KICK NOT OPERATE THOSE POOLS IF WE DON'T HAVE LIFEGUARDS.

THE ONLY SOURCE OF REVENUE IS DECLINING.

HERE WE ARE USING AND THIS YEAR ALONE, I THINK THE CRC HAS GOTTEN TWICE AS MUCH MONEY AS THE PARKS HAD FROM THIS.

I WANT TO SEE HOW THE RESTITUTION WAS PASSED UNANIMOUSLY. NOT AGAINST YOUR VISION OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. OUR CONCERN THAT WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF MONEY AND WE DON'T HAVE A PLAN TO REPLACE IT ACCEPT THESE FUDS AND WE WANT A CHANCE TO DISCUSS IT BEFORE YOU TAKE ACTION ON IT. THANK YOU.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: THANK YOU, MR. GARRISON.

ANYONE ELSE WANT TO SPEAK? LET'S FOLLOW ROBERTS RULES OF ORDER IF WE HAV ANY DISCUSSION OF THE BOARD THAT MOVE INTO BUSINESS. I WILL ASK 4-A.

IS THERE A MOTION TO REMOVE 4-A FROM THE TABLE BECAUSE IT WAS

TABLED TWO WEEKS AGO? >>MAYOR: I WILL MOVE TO REMOVE IT FROM THE TABLE. IS THERE A SECOND? OKAY. WE WILL MOVE ON THEM.

WE DO HAVE 4-B ON THE AGENDA. I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE SOME COMMENTS AS WE START ON THIS I WANT TO CORRECT ONE THING THAT COMMISSIONER GARRISON HAD TO SAY OF THE LIFEGUARDS AND OPERATION FUNDS. IMPACT FEES CANNOT BE USED FOR OPERATIONS BY THE PARKS BOARD OR ANYBODY ELSE.

THEY CAN ONLY BE USED FOR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT.

AND SEVERAL HUNDRED YEARS OF WHAT CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS ARE

[00:40:01]

SO THE IMPACT FEES DO NNOT EFFET AND CANNOT BE USED BY PRESIDENT PARKS BOOED OR ANYTHING ELSE BY OPERATIONS.

I UNDERSTAND THE ISSUE. I THINK THE SCHOOLS HAVE READ ALL THE STUDIES AND SAID KIDS HAVING SHORTER VACATIONS IS BETTER FOR LEARNING SO THEY SHORTENED THE CERTIFICATION PERIOD. WHEN I WAS ELECTED IN 1995 -- I AM GOING TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HISTORY HERE BECAUSE I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT. I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND WE HAVE 40 ACRES -- 41 ACRES.

1 ACRES TURNED OVER TO THE COUNTY PARKS BECAUSE WE HAD ONE AND A HALF TIMES FULL-TIME PARK EMPLOYEES.

A DIRECTOR AND A PART-TIME ASSISTANT.

SO THE CITY OF CARMEL OWNED 41 ACRES.

IT WAS OPERATING 0 ACRES OF PARKLAND TODAY.

THE PARKS DEPARTMENT OPERATES 00 ACRES, THE MONON TRAIL.

AND MIDDLE OF JANUARY, THE SECOND WEEK, I TOOK A BUNCH OF PEOPLE INTERESTED IN PARKS TO GO LOOK AT A PIECE OF LAND THAT WE COULD LEASE TO MORE ACREAGE AND WITHIN -- WITHIN A FEW WEEKS AND WE WORKED FOR 28 YEARS TO HAVE AN AWARD-WINNING PARKS DEPARTMENT. NO QUESTION, I HAD TO CONDEMN 246 PIECES OF PROPERTY AND HAVE PEOPLE OUTSIDE PROTESTING SHOUTING NOMONON TRAIL AT US. THERE IS NO QUESTION WE ARE ALL HERE TODAY TRYING TO FIGURE TO BEST OPERATE OUR PARKS THE CITY DECIDED TO DO SOMETHING THAT NO SUBURBAN CITIES HAVE DONE.

AND THAT IS TO HAVE A TRADITIONAL DOWNTOWN CORE IN BEHIND WITH MY REPUBLICAN AND CONSERVATIVE VALUES.

WHEN A CITY HAS TO TELL PEOPLE THEY WANT TO MOVE TO IT.

WE WANT YOU, BUT YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY APARTMENTS OR CONDOS OR TOWN HOMES OR DUPLEXES. YOU HAVE TO LIVE ON SINGLE FAMILY LOTS. AND TELL PEOPLE HOW TO LIVE.

STRONG CITIES DON'T DO THAT. THEY HAVE OPTIONS FOR PEOPLE.

SO WE LOOK VERY CAREFULLY HOW THE GREAT CITIES OF THE RUEFUL -- PRIOR TO THE ADVENT OF THE SAUBL DESIGNED.

READ THE LITERATURE, THE ACADEMIC LIT A COMMUTER AND GREAT WORKS TO URBAN SPUR. S PEC BOOKS OF CITIES.

URBAN SPRAWL. THE HOST OF AN AMERICAN DREAM.

THE MORE RECENT ONE BY WOMEN AT FIU.

HOW TO DESIGN CITIES IN THIS CITY TO ACCOMMODATE CARS AND MAKE THEM PEOPLE CENTERED AND ORIENTED.

THE FIRST TIME I HAD THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE SAY TO ME.

AND RICH, I THINK YOU MAY HAVE KNOCKED ON A FEW DOORS.

1996 ALREADY THOUSANDS. DONE IT IN SUBSEQUENT ELECTION.

HOW I DO BUILD A DOWNTOWN. WE LEARNED WE HAVE TO BUILD UP TO FOUR TO FIVE STORIES FOR THE STORES AND RETAIL SECTORS TO WORK. OTHERWISE, IT JUST DOESN'T.

PRETTY WELL THE ACADEMIC LITERATURE.

PUBLIC CLASSES, URBAN SPACES, SMALL ONES.

NOT SUBURBAN PARKS. THEY ARE DIFFERENT.

BUT STILL PARK SPACE. PART OF THE WEALTH WHERE PEOPLE HAVE OPPORTUNITIES TO COME TOGETHER AND THESE TO BUILD BEAUTIFUL CITIES. AND PRIOR TO THE CAR, THEY HAVE HUNDREDS OF THESE PLACES. WALK THROUGH DOWNTOWN LONDON.

FOR THOSE AREAS OF TOWN. AND TO DO IT WITHOUT THAT, SUDDENLY WE HAVE A BUNCH OF ARMY BARRACKS LINED UP.

AND WE DON'T WANT THAT FOR CARMEL.

JUST ABSOLUTELY KEY IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA.

AND IT IS DIFFICULT WHEN WE ENTER INTO THESE PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP WITH DEVELOPERS. ONE PIECE RECENTLY -- COUPLE OF ACRES SOLD FOR $15 MILLION. BETWEEN TWO AND THREE ACRES IN

[00:45:03]

30 YEARS AGO WE DIDN'T HAVE A DEVELOPER INTERESTED IN DOWNTOWN CARMEL. WHEN WE ASKED THAT DEVELOPER TO GIVE UP QUARTER OF AN ACRE MORE FOR PUBLIC PLAZA IN THAT AREA, THERE IS REAL MONEY THAT THAT DEVELOPER IS CORRECTING TO THAT AD THAT IS OFTEN MISSED. THE -- THE PUBLIC PLAZA, PUBLIC AREAS ARE SMALL. THEY DON'T LOOK LIKE SOME OF THE PARKS -- SUBURBAN PARKS THAT WE ARE USED TO.

BUT THEY ARE PARKS NONETHELESS. THEY MEET THE DEFINITION OF THE PARKS IN THE TRUEST SENSE OF THE WORD.

PLACES WHERE PEOPLE GATHER TO RECOGNIZE-CREATE AND ENJOY NATURE. A LOT OF MONEY AND TIME INTO THOSE EFFORTS. EXAMPLES I THINK YOU KNOW.

CARTER GREEN, REFLECTING POOL, MIDTOWN PLAZA, SOPHIA SQUARE, THE SMALL POLICE, BENCHES AND A FOUNTAIN.

THOSE BECOME A PUBLIC FACE. AND I SEE DOZENS OF PEOPLE OUT THERE ALL SUMMER LONG. SOPHIA SQUARE SERVES THE AREA OF PEOPLE LIVE RIGHT THERE AND OTHER PEOPLE GO IN THE AREA AND A GREAT PUBLIC SPACE WHERE EVENTS ARE HELD.

OF COURSE THE PLAY EQUIPMENT ALONG MONON SQUARE IMPROVEMENTS.

ALL THESE THINGS ARE VERY IMPORTANT TO OUR URBAN CORE.

MIDTOWN PLAZA. WE TALK OF THE PARKS DEPARTMENT WINNING AWARDS. MIDTOWN PLAZA.

AWARD AFTER AWARD OF LEVEL OF DESIGN AND -- AND THE QUALITY OF THAT DESIGN. WE HAVE GONE OUT -- IT IS WHY MIDTOWN PLAZA. I USED TO CALL IT SQUARE MIDTOWN PLAZA HAS WON SO MANY AWARDS. WE ARE ON THE SAME LIST WITH PROJECTS IN NEW YORK, SAN DIEGO, SEETHE, CHICAGO TO NAME A FEW IN THAT LIST OF TEN OR SO OF AWARD IN THAT PROJECT.

NOT ONLY WILL THE PARKS DEPARTMENT WIN AN AWARD AND THE CRD IN THE PLACES THEY HAVE BUILT.

I -- WHEN WE -- I WENT TO -- MR. WES WESTER MEYER IS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE PARKS DEPARTMENT. I SAID WE NEED HELP BUILDING THESE URBAN PARKS IF WE ARE GOING TO BUILD AT THESE DENSITY.

IN CONSULTATION WITH THE PARKS BOARD, THERE WASN'T MUCH INTEREST IN THE PART OF THE PARKS BOARD AND PUTTING MONEY IN THESE URBAN PARKS. SO IS THE CRC CAN DO IT.

WE MOVED TO THIS -- YOU KNOW THE IMPACT FEES ARE SOME HAVE SAID THAT THE DEVELOPERS SHOULD PROVIDE THESE PARKS.

AND I -- I DON'T THINK THAT IS FAIR EITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE PAYING PARK IMPACT FEES. AND THEN TO ASK THEM TO PAY FOR ADDITIONAL PARKS IS REALLY DOUBLING THE AMOUNT THAT THEY ARE -- IN MANY CASES MORE THAN DOU DOUBLING. AND WE TO WANT TO BE COMPETITIVE FOR INVESTMENTS IN THE CITY. ALWAYS MY THOUGHT WHEN YOU AR IN PRESIDENT URBAN CORE, WHEN -- WHEN FEES ARE USED OR OUGHT TO BE USED IN THAT AREA AND REALLY NOT TAKEN FROM THE URBAN CORE AND USED IN SUBURBAN AREAS. THE LEGAL ISSUES -- I HAVE ASKED OUR PONTE VEDRA COUNCIL IN 2020 TO REVIEW THIS ISSUE.

AND HE HAD A MEMO. AND HE VERY CLEARLY WENT THROUGH ALL AREAS OF STATE LAW, ATE APPLICABLE STATUTES.

THE APPLICABLE LOCAL LAWS AND LAID OUT EXACTLY HOW THIS COULD BE DONE. AND HOW IT WOULD BE DONE LEGALLY AND PROPERLY UNDER STATE LAW. AND CITY ORDINANCES.

COMFORTABLE WITH THAT MEMO. YOU CAN NITPICK.

THIS MONEY WENT TO THIS BANK ACCOUNT.

THE SUBSTANCE IS ALL CORRECT. I DON'T AGREE WITH THE EXEMPTION. STATE LAW IS BROAD AS TO HOW THIS HAPPENS. THE KEY THING IS IT HAS TO GO TO INFRASTRUCTURE AND SO EVERY PINNEY THAT HAVE BEEN EXPENDED BY THE CRC HAS BEEN EXTENDED FOR CAPITAL ITEMS THAT HAVEN'T GONE TO MAINTENANCE AND THAT IS THE DISTINCTION THAT IS MADE IN THE STATUTE I AM HAPPY TO REVIEW OTHER REVIEWS, OTHER OPINIONS

[00:50:04]

I HAVE IN OPINIONS AND I CONFIRMED THEM IN THE LAST 24 HOURS WITH OUR LEGAL STAFF AND THEY AGREED PRESIDENT 2020 MEMO THAT I REQUESTED THAT WE ARE DOING THIS PROPERLY -- I AM SORRY? OKAY.

I THOUGHT I HEARD SOMEBODY. THAT HAS BEEN FOLLOWED.

LET ME MOVE TO THE -- TO THE 111TH AND PENN.

THIS MAY BE AN ISSUE OF JUST NOT COMMUNION KEATING BILLION THE DIRECTION THE CRC IS MOVING IN AS WE -- AS WE CONTINUE OUR CORE DEVELOPMENT. I HAVE ALL SEEN THE CORE IS BETWEEN KEYSTONE AND U.S. 1. WE HAVE ALONG U.S. 1, VERY UNDERUTILIZED AREA. 1980S.

SOME EARLY 19950S. AND 1970, LARGE OFFICE BUILDING.

MOST OF THEM CONSISTENT OF 20% OF THAT LAND USE IS TALL BUILDINGS SURROUNDED BY UGLY ASPHALT PARKING LOTS.

AND WHAT -- THE MOST PROGRESSIVE CITIES ACROSS THE GLOBE IS DOING TODAY IS LOOKING AT THOSE PARKING LOTS AND SEEING HOW THEY CAN BE TURNED INTO URBAN VILLAGES.

NOT ONLY ARE THEY UGLY, I JOKE IN MY TALKS A WALK PAST THE WALMART PARKING LOT RECENTLY. THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE THROUGH THESE AREAS. THE CRC HAS BEEN IN THE NEWSPAPER AND THE GATEWAY PROJECT WITH THE PARKWAY FOLKS OF TURNING THE PARKING LOTS INTO AN URBAN VILLAGE THAT WILL BE NO MORE THAN FIVE STORIES TALL, GENERALLY.

A LITTLE BIT THAT IS IF FOUR STORIES OR THREE STORIES.

BUT NO MORE THAN FIVE STORIES. DON'T NEED TO BE LIKE SINGAPORE.

I GOT FROM CHINA AND BUILDING TALL BUILDINGS FOR THE CITY.

TERRIBLE SIGN FOR THE CITY. EVEN THOUGH THEIR STREETSCAPES ARE BEAUTIFUL. WE DON'T WANT TO BUILD LIKE THAT. LOWER URBAN DENSITY AND WE CAN DO THAT. THE KEY IS, IT IS VERY EXPENSIVE TO PUT THE CARS UNDERGROUND AND STRUCTURES.

WHY WE GO TO THE TAX INCREMENT FINANCE DEALS TO PAY FOR THAT.

WHEN WE DO THAT, HAVING GREEN SPACES IN PUBLIC PLAZAS, SPECIFIC AREAS FOR PEOPLE NOT JUST THOSE FUTURE DEVELOPMENTS.

THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS -- THEY REALLY AREN'T NEIGHBORHOODS.

AND THE DEVELOPERS PROPHET WITH THAT.

THE DEVELOPERS THAT DEVELOP NEXT TO CENTRAL PARK AND THE DEVELOPERS. FOR THE CITY TO DO THE PLANNING PROPERLY AND INVEST WHETHER IN AN URBAN AREA OR SUBURBAN AREA.

BUT THEIR INTENT IS TO TAKE DISCUSSIONS WITH TWO OTHER LARGE BUILDING OWNERS ALONG U.S. 31 TO TURN THOSE AREAS INTO URBAN VILLAGES. 111TH IS DESIGNED TO COMPLEMENT THAT AREA. AND WE ANNEXED A HOME PLACE AREA. THE ONLY ANNEX AND SEEING THAT INVESTMENT GO TO THAT AREA IS VERY IMPORTANT.

NOT TECHNICALLY IN THE AREA BUT ADJACENT TO IT AND WILL HELP THE HOME PLACE AREA. THIS IS DESIGNED AS, AGAIN, PART OF THE URBAN CORE. DESIGNED AS LOW URBAN DENSITY.

THE PARK SPACES IN THAT AREA BECOME VERY, VERY IMPORTANT THE -- WE HAVE MADE AGREEMENTS WITH THE DEVELOPERS AFTER LONG AND PROTRACTED NEGOTIATIONS IN EACH OF THESE CASES.

SO A QUESTION WHETHER THE INVESTMENT WILL BE MADE OR AT LEAST MADE THE WAY WE WANT IT MADE.

IT WILL BECOME A MUCH LESS DESIRABLE DEVELOPMENT IF THE PUBLIC PLAZAS COURTYARDS AND SMALL PARKS WERE NOT BUILT.

IT IS ABSOLUTELY KEY TO DOING IT RIG

RIGHT. >> CAN I SAY SOMETHING?

>>MAYOR: YEAH, GO AHEAD, SIR, OF COURSE.

>> I HAVE BEEN ON THE BOARD FOR A LONG TIME.

I LOVE THE CITY OF CARMEL. I HATED INDIANA WHEN I MOVED HERE. I LOVE INDIANA.

IT IS A WONDERFUL PLACE TO LIVE. CARMEL WAS A BEAUTIFUL, SMALL CITY. I LOVE THAT SMALL CITY.

I AGREE WE NEEDED TO GROW SOME, BUT IN OUR GROWTH, I THINK WE HAVE LOST PART OF OUR CARMEL CHARM.

I MEAN -- I UNDERSTAND EVERYBODY LOVES DOWNTOWN.

BUT -- MY BIGGEST PROBLEM IS I FEEL SAD FOR ALL OF THE APARTMENTS, TOWN HOUSES AND CONDOSES TO BE BELT.

WE HAVE SO MANY NOW. WHAT DO YOU THINK, LORI?

[00:55:02]

DO YOU THINK. >>LORI WATSON: MY FEELING IS THAT WE STUDIED THE TYPE OF HOUSING THAT THE -- THE PEOPLE YOUNGER THAN MYSELF ARE WANTING AND DESIRING AND I HEAR FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCES JUST TALKING WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE YOUNGER THAN ME. AND THEY DO NOT ALL WANT THE SINGLE-FAMILY HOME WITH THE YARD MAINTENANCE AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT GOES WITH IT. THEY WANT A MORE SIMPLIFIED LIFE WITHOUT ALL THE YARD CHORES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

I DON'T HAVE AN OPPOSITION TO THE TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT WE ARE DISCUSSING HERE TODAY. SINCE I AM SPEAK NOW, I WILL SPEAK TO MY FEELINGS ABOUT THESE ITEMS THAT HAVE RAISED SOME DUST IN THE LAST WEEK OR SO. IT IS RARE THAT I AM CONTACTED BY ANY ITEMS ON THE ALLEGATION. WHEN ARE THE AGENDAS POSTED? HOW EARLY ARE THEY POSTED? LIKE MADE PUBLIC? SO HOW MANY DAYS? SO THERE HAVE BEEN TIME FOR PEOPLE TO BE AWARE OF THIS ISSUE.

I HAVE JUST PUT THAT OUT. SO MY CONCERN THESE ISSU ISSUES FEEL LIKE THERE ARE STILL SOME LEGAL QUESTIONS BEING BANTERED AROUND, AND I GUESS MY OPINION IS, I SUPPORT GENERALLY WHAT THESE ARE WANTING; HOWEVER, WHEN I AM HEARING FROM PEOPLE THAT SO AND SO ATTORNEY SAYS THIS IS ILLEGAL.

IT'S STATE STATUTE AGAINST THE CITY STATUTE, THINGS LIKE THAT, I ASK MR. OVERLANDER TO BE HERE THIS MORNING BECAUSE THERE WERE DISCUSSIONS. NAME WAS DROPPED.

MY DISCUSSION IS, IF THERE ARE LEGAL ISSUES, LET'S GIVE THIS TWO AND A HALF WEEKS OR WHENEVER OUR NEXT MEETING SOMETHING TO GIVE ALL THESE THINGS OUT IN THE OPEN.

AND GET THEM AURAL SETTLED AND LET'S MOVE FORWARD WITH WHATEVER INFORMATION COMES OUT IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS.

WOULD IT BE A HARDSHIP TO DELAY THIS TO THE NEXT MEETING? WOULD IT -- IT WOULD BE A HARD

HARDSHIP? >>MAYOR: LET ME DEFER THAT.

THERE ARE A COUPLE OF OTHER COMMENTS I WANTED TO MAKE ABOUT THIS. I INVITED MR.CLITSING, IN THE DEPARTMENT'S HEAD MEETINGS SOME TIME AGO.

AND THESE MEETINGS GENERALLY ARE HELD TWICE A MONTH ON FRIDAY AFTERNOON FAT 2. TIMES WE DO IT WEEKLY.

THE MINIMUM OF THE LAST FEW YEARS, TWICE A MONTH.

EACH OF THESE PROJECTS HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED THIS NOSE MEETINGS.

NOW YOU MR. CLITSINGE MAY NOT HAVE KNOWN THE EXACT AMOUNT OF -- OF CALCULATION OR SOMETHING. THESE ARE NOT A SURPRISE.

ALL THESE PROJECTS HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED WE ARE DISCUSSING THEM FROM A POLICE RESPONSE STANDPOINT, FIRE DEPARTMENT STANDPOINT, AND EMS RESPONSE STANDPOINT.

INGRESS AND EGRESS. THE AMOUNT OF MONEY TO GET CARS IN AND OUT APPROPRIATELY IF THE ROAD IS THERE AND SO ON.

AND I KNOW MR. MAKESTI WHO IS OUT OF THE COUNTRY TODAY PLANNEDCLITSING MEET ON A BEG BASIS.

I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT, TOO, ABOUT PARK FINANCING.

I MET WITH MR. HENSON, TOWNSHIP TRUSTEE OVER IS A YEAR AGO.

AND I ARRANGED FOR OUR FISCAL ADVISOR WHO IS A TALENTED EXPERT IN THE STATE OF INDIANA TOP PREPARE DEMONSTRATION OF HOW THE TOWNSHIP CAN CHOOSE TO MAKE UP SOME OF THE FUNDS THAT ARE BEING LOST THROUGH THE PAYOFF OF THE LIP BONDS BECAUSE THE LAW HAS CHANGE $. WE PRESENTED THAT TO MR. HEN SAW AND ASKED HIM TO TAKE THAT PROPOSAL, DISCUSS IT WITH THE BOARD AND MOVE AHEAD WITH IT. AND WOULD SOLVED.

AND I DON'T KNOW IF WE DISCUSS IT WITH THE BOARD OR NOT, BUT NEVER DID. SO THAT DECISION APPOINTED ME.

THE OTHER THING WE HAVE TO DO. THERE IS JUST NOT ENOUGH MONEY FROM THE LEGAL CHANGE TO SUPPORT THE PARKS THE WAY WE HAVE BEEN SUPPORTING THEM. THE IMPACT FEES.

THE PROJECT 12121TH AND PENN WILL BE BUILT BETWEEN 12 TO 15

[01:00:08]

NOT GOING TO DO THAT. SOMETHING THAT WILL BE DONE.

BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ECONOMY IS AND WHETHER PAYCOR OR ANY DEVELOPER WILL BE AROUND. APPEAR STRONG FOUNDATIONAL COMPANY. BUT YOU CAN'T BORROW AGAINST THESE FUNDS. NOT SOMETHING YOU TAKE TO THE BREAK AND GET THESE FINDS. TOO MUCH OF KNOWN IN ADVANCE.

SO YOU CAN ONLY SPEND THEM. YOU CANNOT BORROW AGAINST -- IF YOU DID, TERRIBLY HIGH INTEREST RATES AND UNCERTINTY THAT NO LENDER IS GOING TO DO THAT. THERE AREN'T FUNDS IMMEDIATELY AVAILABLE TODAY. YOU KNOW, THIS ISN'T A PLEASANT THING TO SAY, BUT IF WE WANTED TO CONTINUE TO DEVELOP PARKS, AS WELL TO LOOK AT A DEDICATED FUND FOR OPERATIONS AND CAPITAL EXPEND EXPENDITURES.

NOT THE REVENUE THERE TO DO IT. DO OTHER THING THAT THE CITY HAS TO DO TO PROVIDE FOR AVENUE.ER SERVICES AND SO ON.

HOMEOWNERS CAPPED AT 1%. BUSINESS TAXES FAR LOWER THAN ENTITIES AROUND THEM. AND WE HAVE TO ASK THE VOTERS THROUGH A REFERENDUM, WHETHER OR NOT THEY SUPPORT PARKS.

I THINK THEY WILL. I THINK HAVING THAT DISCUSSION BUT THE IMPACT FEES ARE NOT THE SOLUTION.

THEY ARE KNOWN ENOUGH BECAUSE OF MONEY AND OVER MANY, MANY YEARS OF TIME. SO IT IS NOT THE PARENTS THAT SOME PEOPLE THINK THERE MAY BE. THEN WOULD END UP -- THE DEVELOPER HAS THE RIGHT TO DEVELOP AT THE ZONING THAT IS THERE, BUT THEN WE END UP WITH LESS THAN DESIRABLE DEVELOPMENTS BECAUSE THE PUBLIC SPACES ARE A PLACE OF ALL SHARED TO MAKE THE URBAN DENSITY PALATABLE AND BEAUTIFUL AND NOT TAKE PLACE.

LORI'S QUESTION. I DON'T MIND DELAYING FOR TWO WEEKS AND THE LAWYERS CAN DISCUSS THIS.

I AM ABSOLUTELY CONFIDENT -- JOHN, DO YOU WANT TO SPEAK OF LEGAL ISSUES INVOLVED TODAY? OKAY.

THAT IS FINE. THE FORMER PONTE VEDRA'S MEMO IS VERY CLEAR AND CON VICE AND SPEAKS TO THE POINTS RAISED AND I AM COMFORTABLE WITH IT. I HAVE NO OBJECTION TO DELAYING TABLING THESE ITEMS UNTIL NEXT MEETING.

BUT WE HAVE MADE AGREEMENTS WITH 9 DEVELOPERS.

THE INVESTMENT IS CONTINGENT BEYOND THAT AND WE NEED TO PROCEED WITH THIS. THE NEXT CITY COUNCIL WHICH IS TO CHANGE THE ORDINANCE. ROBUST DISCUSSION OF THE PROS AND ONES AND PARK FINANCING. NOT A PANACEA TO THE PARKS ISSUE. THIS IS NOT GOING TO FIX THE PARK FUNDING ISSUES AND WILL BE DONE THROUGH A REFERENDUM.

AND WORK WITH THE TOWNSHIP. HOW IT -- WON'T GO INTO TOO MUCH DETAIL. AND FUNDED THE FIRE WHEN WE HAD A CONTRACT FOR FIRE MANY YEAR AGO.

BORROW ONE NEAR PAY IT OFF THE NEXT WITHOUT SERIOUS IMPACT TO THE TAX RATE. THAT CAN BE DONE BUT I WANT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR. THAT AMOUNT OF MONEY WILL NOT PAY FOR FORKS. AND MONEY THAT COMES IN OVER A VERY, VERY LONG TIME. ANYWAY, A MOTION TO TABLE 4-B? OR ANYBODY ELSE WANT TO TALK? I TALKED A LOT.

I RARELY TALK AT THESE MEETINGS. >> IMPLORE WORRIED ABOUT OUR ROADS AND THEY ARE CONGESTED. HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

CAN WE MOVE ON AND VOTE WHILE YOU ARE AT THE TABLE?

>>MAYOR: I WILL LIKE TO ASK IF MR. TAYLOR OR MR. SNYDER WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK AGAIN.

>>. >> THANK YOU.

I THINK THIS BOARD DOES A GREAT JOB OF PRESENTING BOTH SIDES.

OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE ABLE TO PROVIDE OUR SIDES AT VARIOUS RUMS, TOWNSHIP AND PARKS LEVEL. YOU PRESENT YOUR SIDE.

AS LEADER OF THE CITY, PRESUMABLY YOU SHOULD KNOW WHAT IS NEEDED MORE THAN ANYBODY ELSE.

[01:05:03]

I AM NOT DELUSIONAL. ONE OF THE BIGGEST CONCERNS I THINK JUST COMES DOWN TO OVERSIGHT OF THE MONEY.

IF THE -- IF THE DEVELOPMENT OF 111TH AND PENNSYLVANIA IS TRULY NEED WILLING $4.7 MILLION TO MR. A COMMUNITY INFRASTRUCTURE, IT'S MY INTERPRETATION THAT THE PARK SHOULD BE INVOLVED IN THAT.

OR AN OVERSIGHT OVER HOW THOSE DOGS WILL BE SPENT.

IF THERE IS A WAY TO DO IT OVER $2 MILLION AND GET THE SAME RESULT, THE PARKS SHOULD RECEIVE THE DELTA BACK.

SO SING IF THIS WILL BE TABLED FOR TWO WEEKS, I THINK THAT HAVING THOSE TYPES OF CONVERSATIONS SO WE ARE ALL GOING INTO T THIS WITH OUR EYES WIDE OPEN AND DO THIS EFFICIENTLY, SOME OF THIS WILL CALM DOWN.

THE NEXT GOVERNING BODY WILL MAKE DECISIONS.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: FOR THE FUTURE.

I DO WANT TO POINT OUT -- I APPRECIATE.

AND POINT OUT MR. CLITSING AND WORKING WELL TOGETHER WORKING MONTHS DESIGNING THE TRAILHEAD ON 116TH AND INNER URBAN WHICH IS ONE OF THOSE PROJECTS AND I WANT TO POINT OUT I DON'T THINK ANYBODY REALIZES THE 111TH AND PEN.

AND OVER B. THE CITY'S ACCESSED VALUE.

SO WE ARE LOOKING AT HUGE INVESTMENT BY THAT TAMPA AND IN TERMS OF THE PUBLIC SPACES BETWEEN FOUR AND FIVE MILLION DOLLARS, SMALL PERCENTAGE. 1%.

WELL OVER 1% OF THE TOTAL INVESTMENT.

THERE IS A LOT OF MONEY BUT NOT A LOT OF MONEY IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE INVESTMENT BEING MADE. AND I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE IT IS GONE RIGHT. YOU KNOW BOTH THE CITIES AND THE PARKS DEPARTMENT HIRED DESIGNERS.

JEFF SPECK WHO TEACHES AT HARVARD AND CONSIDERED ONE OF THE TOP CITY PLANNER NOTICE WORLD TODAY HAS BEEN HELPING US DESIGN THAT PROJECT. AND WE QUITE HONESTLY BEAT THE DEVELOPER WRITE A BIT HOW THAT DESIGN WILL BE DONE.

WE ARE GETTING MUCH CLOSER TO MORE DESIGN.

MORE VOICES ARE ALSO GOOD AND MICHAEL AND HENRY HAVE A HISTORY OF WORKING TOGETHER AND SHOULD CONTINUE ON THAT PROJECT.

>> I THINK AT THIS POINT -- AT THIS POINT, AT LEAST FROM THE TOWNSHIP PERSPECTIVE OF MICHAEL AND HENRY.

AND THIS IS NOT ANY KIND OF A MANDATE ON HENRY.

I CAN SPEAK FROM THE TOWNSHIP. THE AMAZING THINGS WITHOUT HENRY'S ASSISTANCE. THING IS A PRODUCT OF THIS -- COMING UP VERY QUICKLY. YS, $4.7 MILLION IS A SMALL PERCENTAGE BUT A LARGE PERCENTAGE TO THE PARKS.

TO DO THIS MORE SUFFICIENTLY AND SALVAGE SOME OF THIS WITHOUT BLOWING UP THE WHOLE SYSTEM AND LETS WHAT HAPPENS NEXT YEAR.

AND THE ULTIMATE AS SOUTH CAROLINA OVER THE NEXT TWO WEEKS, CAN WE COUNT ON YOU AND HENRY AND MICHAEL IN THE PARKS BOARD GETTING TOGETHER AND REALLY DISCUSSION IF THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN. HOW CAN IT HAPPEN IN A SCENARIO THAT CAN THE BEST SCENARIO FOR ALL PARTIES INVOLVED.

>> THANK YOU. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: OKAY, DID WE

MOVE 4-B -- >> WE HAVE NOT.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: A MOTION TO MOVE 4-B -- TO TABLE 4-B.

>> I MOVE WE TABLE 4-B. >> SECOND.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR OF TABLE 4-B.

SAY AYE. >> AYE.

>> AYE. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: SAME PROCESS

FOR 4-C. >> WE MOVE TABLE.

>> SECOND. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: DISCUSSION.

TABLING 4-B. 4-B.

MOTION TO TABLE? >> I MOVE WE TABLE.

>> SECOND. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: ALL IN FAVOR

OF TABLING 4-D. >> AYE.

>> AYE. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: PASSES UNANIMOUSLY. MOTION TO TABLE 4-E.

>> I MOVE WE TABLE 4-E. >> SECOND.

[01:10:03]

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: ■HEARING NO OTHER DISCUSSION, TABLING 4-E,

SAY AYE. >> AYE.

>> AYE. >>MAYOR BRAINARD: AYE.

OKAY, THOSE FOUR ITEMS STAY TABLED AND REMAIN TABLED.

I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANY OTHER BUSINESS BEFORE THIS BOARD TODAY. OUR LONGEST MEETING IN THREE YEARS. [LAUGHTER] USUALLY FIVE MINUTES IN AND OUT. SO I APPRECIATE EVERYBODY'S PATIENCE. UP APPRECIATE THE WAY THIS IS APPROACHED TODAY BY THOSE WHO SPOKE.

IS THERE A MOTION TO ADJOURN. >> I MOVE WE ADJOURN.

>>MAYOR BRAINARD: DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE.

ALL IN FAVOR OF ADJOURNING BOARD OF PUBLIC WORKS

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.