[Affiliate Review Committee on May 1, 2025.]
[00:00:07]
. >> GOOD EVENING EVERYBODY. I WOULD LIKE TO CALL THIS MEETING OF THE AFFILIATE REVIEW COMMITTEE TO ORDER. IT IS MAY 1, 2025 AT 5:00 P.M. THIS MEETING WAS NOTICED IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE OPEN DOOR LAW AND ALL MEMBERS ARE PRESENT IN PERSON. THE FIRST ITEM IS OPENING O OF THE MEETING. AS WE HAVE DONE ON THE LAST FEW, WE HAVE TAKEN A FEW MINUTES TO TALK ABOUT WHERE WE ARE, WHAT WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH, WHERE WE ARE GOING. I THINK IN LIGHT OF WHERE WE ARE AS A COMMITTEE, I THINK THIS BEING OUR LAST FORMALLY SCHEDULED MEETING PRESENTLY TO GET THROUGH THE BEGINNING PROCESS OF GOING THROUGH THE FOUR AFFILIATES FIRST ANNOUNCED AND HEARING THE CITY'S STORY AND THE CITY HFS REVIEW OF THEM FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE, IT PUTS US IN A POSITION TO FIGURE OUT NEXT STEPS TO MAKE SURE WE ARE GATHERING THE INFORMATION WE NEED. OBVIOUSLY, THERE HAS BEEN A LOT HAPPENING AROUND THIS AFFILIATE REVIEW PROCESS. THIS HAS BEEN A MAJOR PART OF THE CITY'S ENDEAVOR FROM THE DAY ONE OF THE ADMINISTRATION, TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE AS A CITY ARE INTERACTING WITH AFFILIATES AND OTHER ORGANIZATIONS, CONTRACTORS, AND ALL OF THE THINGS THAT COME WITH THE TRANSITION. I SAY THAT HERE AT THE BEGINNING BECAUSE I THINK WE ARE AT A POINT WHERE THE SIX OF US NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHAT NEXT STEPS WE WANT TO TAKE. I GOT SOME IDEAS BUT I WANTED TO OPEN IT TO THE FLOOR TO SEE IF THERE ARE ANY THOUGHTS. I WANT TO SAY IN PREFACE, GOING THROUGH THE AGENDA TONIGHT AND SEEING THE LAST TWO AND SEEING THE DIFFERENTIATION BETWEEN AFFILIATES THAT ARE RELATED DIRECTLY TO OPERATIONS AND THE CRC AND CITY FINANCE PROCESS WILL BE COMPELLING INFORMATION TO PUT INTO OUR DISCUSSION. SO I WANT TO GET THROUGH THAT. I WANT TO SEE IF THERE IS IS ANYTHING DIRECTIONALLY THAT THE REST OF THE COMMITTEE HAVE PLANNED FOR AND IF NOT, I WILL GIVE AN OVER VIEW OF WHAT WE LIKELY NEED TO DO AND OTHER INFORMATION WE NEED TO PULL TOGETHER. BUT I WILL OPEN THE FLOOR IF ANYBODY HAS THOUGHTS? .
>> THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. I BELIEVE YOU TALKED ABOUT REVISITING THE LIST WOE PROVIDED. THAT MIGHT BE THE NEXT BEST. THAT WAS A LIST OF NONPROFITS THE CITY IS SOMEHOW DOING BUSINESS WITH. THERE WERE SOME ON THE LIST THAT CLEARLY DIDN'T LOOK LIKE THERE WAS MUCH INTEREST THERE BUT OTHERS THAT ARE A CLESER RELATIONSHIP. SO WE CAN REVISIT THE LIST. YOU ALSO TALKED ABOUT REVIEWING THE ARTS GRANT PROCESS. THAT IS PROBABLY A MEETING IN AND OF ITSELF RIGHT THERE. SO THAT IS FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION, THE COMMITTEE'S CONSIDERATION. AND.
>> AND MR. CHAIRMAN, ONE OF THE THINGS WE DISCUSSED BECAUSE THAT WAS AN EXTENSIVE LIST, IF STAFF COULD HELP RANK ORDER THEM BASED ON RISK OR REVENUE, SOME KIND OF A LOGICAL THING. CLEARLY WE DON'T HAVE THE TIME AND RESOURCES TO GO THROUGH ALL OF THEM. THE GOAL IS CAN WE BUILD A TEMPLATE THAT WOULD BENEFIT EVEN THE SMALLEST OF THE ORGANIZATIONS BUT MAYBE NOT DRILL DOWN. BUT WITHOUT THAT INFORMATION OF IS THERE SOME LOGICAL RANK ORDERING , I THINK IT WOULD BE HARD FOR US TO FIGURE OUT WHAT MIGHT BE THE NEXT TRANISH OF THOSE. .
>> OKAY. LOVE THOSE. THOSE ARE THINGS WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT TO LOOK AT THE FINANCIAL MAKE-UP OF THE CITY PROCESS. THE IDEA OF LOOKING WHOLISTICALLY AT ALL OF THE NONPROFIT AFFILIATES WITH THE CITY, OTHER ONES WE HAVE NOT TALKED ABOUT, THINGS THAT ARE MOVING THE WAY THE SIT A RELATING TO CONTRACTORS AND VENDORS, THE EVENTS WE ARE SETTING UP IS PARAMOUNT TO MAKE SURE WE ARE MOVING IN A DIRECTION THAT PUTS US IN A POSITION THAT THINGS THAT ARE ONGOING HAVE THE CHECKS AND BALANCES NECESSARY TO NOT HAPPEN OR AS THEY HAPPEN, WE HAVE THE RIGHT THINGS IN PLACE TO ENSURE THAT THINGS AREN'T OCCURRING IN WAYS THAT PUT CITY OPERATIONS, THE PEOPLE OF CARMEL, THE THINGS WE CARE ABOUT IN A POSITION WHERE WE MAY BE LOSING OUT ON THE THINGS THAT MATTER TO OUR CITY. I SHARE THAT AS I THINK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT I AS THE PRESIDENT OR CHAIR OF THE COMMITTEE NEED TO BRING UP, WE HAVE SEEN A LOT OF NEWS STORIES COME OUT ABOUT OUR LAST MEETING. I WANT TO MAKE IT VERY CLEAR THAT THE NEWS THAT HAS COME OUT, THE PRESENTATION WE RECEIVED, THE INFORMATION THAT HAS COME IN, ALL OF THAT IS PART OF THE CONTEXT WE ARE USING TO BUILD THE RECOMMENDATIONS WE WILL MAKE FROM THIS COMMITTEE ON HOW BETTER TO PRESERVE AND STRUCTURE OUR GOVERNMENT TO ENSURE THAT THE THINGS WE CARE ABOUT ARE
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TAKEN CARE OF. I'M PERSONALLY FRUSTRATED WITH THE WAY THAT THE INFORMATION HAS COME THROUGH. I SAY THAT KNOWING FULL WELL THAT PART OF THIS PROCESS THAT I HAVE RUN IS THAT THIS INITIAL BATCH OF INFORMATION COMING IN FROM THIS COMMITTE WAS INTENDED TO BE THE STORY OF THESE FOUR NONPROFITS AND OTHERS THAT MAKE SENSE FROM THE CITY'S PERSPECTIVE. WHAT WE HAVE LOOKED AT FOR THE FIRST TWO MEETINGS WERE CLEAR STORIES OF WHERE CITY OPERATIONS FELL SHORT IN GUIDING THE NONPROFITS THAT WE WERE AFFILIATED WITH AND THE DIRECTION THEY NEEDED TO GO OR SHOULD HAVE GONE WHICH PUT US AT THE END OF AN ADMINISTRATION AT A TRANSITION POINT WITH OUTSTANDING ACCOUNTS THAT WE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH AS A NEW ADMINISTRATION COME IN. IT PUT ISIN A POSITION WHERE WHOLE SALE CHANGES TO OTHER THIPGS THAT MAY OR MAY NOT NEED TO BE PROTECTED IN A TRANSITION SPOT ARE MOVING WITHOUT DUE COURSE OR REVIEW OR DISCUSSION. MY FRUSTRATION COMES FROM THE FACT THAT AT THE END OF LAST MEETING, WE HAD A DISCUSSION, MS. SPRINGER, YOU BROUGHT IT UP THAT CHRIS KINDLE MARKET MET WITH AN OPERATING AGREEMENT. IT WAS THAT DAY. FOR ME TRYING TO RUN THE COMMITTEE, GAIN THE INFORMATION, PUT US IN INFORMATION WHERE WE CAN COME UP WITH RATIONAL OVER SOIKT SIGHT OF WHERE WE NEED TO GO, THAT IS IS A TELLTALE SIGN THAT IT HAPPENED THE DAY OF THE MEETING. I COULDN'T BELIEVE IT.I BRING IT UP AGAIN TODAY BECAUSE TODAY WE SAID WITH MORE ACTION OCCURRING WITH THIS SPECIFIC AFFILIATE, A DAY BEFORE THIS MEETING AGAIN, WHERE THERE HAVE BEEN CHANGES IN THE LEADERSHIP, THERE HAS BEEN A MEETING OF THAT BOARD RGS AN AFFILIATED ENTITY OF THE CITY OF CARMEL THAT BY YOUR ACCOUNT HAS RECEIVED $8.5 MILLION OF TAXPAYER SUBSIDY AND SHIFTED THE BEHAVIOR OF THAT BOARD FURTHER THE DAY BEFORE WE ARE MEETING TO REVIEW IT. SO I SHARE THAT. MY FRUSTRATION IS THAT IT IS EITHER LACK OF OVER SIGHT OR A TOO MUCH OVER SIGHT. BUT WE ARE NOW PUT IN A POSITION WHERE WE HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT AND TRY TO BUILD A STORY AND A NARRATIVE ABOUT SOMETHING THAT IS MOVING AWAY FROM US AT EVER SINGLE MOMENT. I SHARE THAT AS KIND OF A FOUNDATION, COMPLETELY FRUSTRATED. I'M EXCITED TO DIG INTO THE TWO WE HAVE ON THE AGENDA TODAY. BUT I HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN RAISED. I THINK THE PUBLIC DO. I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK FOR THE OTHER PEOPLE ON THE COMMITTEE BUT THERE IS A LOT OF STUFF MOVING THAT JUST MAKES IT VERY HARD TO SEE A PATH THAT ISN'T WHOLISTIC, WHOLE SALE, DRASTIC CHANGES IN THE WAY THAT WE ARE OPERATING AS A CITY. THAT MAY BE WHERE THIS ENDS UP. BUT ULTIMATELY, WHEN WE ARE LOOKING AT THIS FROM A REVIEW PERSPECTIVE, THE AFFILIATES MAY NEVER HAVE BEEN THE ISSUE. AND THERE ARE ISSUES THERE, THERE ARE THINGS WE NEED TO RECTIFY. WHAT I HAVE SEEN THIS WEEK, TWO WEEKS AGO WHEN WE MET BEFORE WITH THE CONVERSATIONS WE HAD WITH THE THINGS THAT HAVE POPPED UP AND THE WAY THE NARRATIVE IS BEING SPUN AND TOLD, I DO NOT UNDERSTAND IF WE ARE TRYING TO BE PARTNERS TO THESE AFFILIATES OR IF WE ARE TRYING TO PRESERVE THE THINGS THAT MATTER TO THE COMMUNITY OR NOT. SO THAT IS MY DIATRIBE FOR THE NIGHT. I HAVE A LUT OF QUESTIONS THAT WILL COME FROM THAT. I DON'T KNOW IF IT MAKES SENSE TO HAVE ANOTHER MEETING ON THIS AFFILIATE SPECIFICALLY. I DO THINK AFTER WE GET THROUGH THE TWO AFFILIATES WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT TONIGHT THAT IT MIGHT MAKE SENSE FOR US TO TAKE A LITTLE TIME TO ASK QUESTIONS TO PREPARE YOU AND THE TEAM ON WHAT WE SHOULD MAYBE COME BACK AND DISCUSS ABOUT THIS KINDLE MARKET AND MAYBE PROMOTE CARMEL AND OTHER AFFILIATES THAT HAVE NOT BEEN DISCUSSED YET THAT WILL COME UP ON THE LIST. AGAIN, I PERSONALLY, AS CHAIR OF THIS COMMITTEE AND TRYING TO SHEPHERD IT IN A WAY THAT THE OUTCOME OF THIS WILL BE SOMETHING THAT MATTERS TO CARMEL, DON'T WANT TO LOSE THE CONCEPT THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE, AND THINGS THAT MATTER TO OUR CONSTITUENTS, OUR NEIGHBORS. THESE ARE NOT BUSINESS TRANCE ACTIONS ALTHOUGH THEY ARE AT THEIR HEART. THESE ARE MISSIONS, VISIONS, THIPGS THAT PEOPLE LOVE, THINGS THAT MATTER TO US, THAT MATTERED BEFORE, THAT CHANGED SO DRAMATICALLY, SO QUICKLY THAT THEY MAY BE FALLING APART BEFORE OUR EYES. I THINK WE SHOULD ADDRESS SOME OF THAT ON THIS
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COMMITTEE. I WOULD LOVE TO KIND OF COME BACK AROUND, TAKE TIME TO THINK ABOUT THAT AS WE GO THROUGH THE OTHER AFFILIATES THAT ARE HERE. I DO WANT TO RESERVE TIME BEFORE WE GO THROUGH THOSE TO ASK A FEW FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS ON WHAT THE CONVERSATIONS SHOULD BE. AND AGAIN, I OPEN THE FLOOR TO ANYONE ELSE TO HAVE THOUGHTS OR FEEDBACK ON THAT FRONT.>> THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. I WOULD LIKE TO KIND OF PIGGYBACK ON SOME OF THE THINGS YOU MENTIONED AND I WANT THE PUBLIC TO KNOW THAT THE WORK OF THIS COMMITTEE HAS BEEN A LOT AND ENLIGHTENING.
ONE OF THE THINGS I WANT TO MAKE CLEAR BECAUSE THERE IS A LOT OF THINGS SHOWING UP ON SOCIAL MEDIA THAT WHEN WE REVIEWED THE LAST COMMITTEE, EXCUSE ME, THIS LAST AFFILIATE, WE WERE SENT OVER 500 DOCUMENTS TO REVIEW AND TO UNDERSTAND. I FELT LIKE AFTER READING THOSE 500 DOCUMENTS, I HAD A PRETTY GOOD, CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT EACH OF THE EMPLOYEES DID, WHAT THEIR ROLES WERE, EXACTLY WHAT THEY WERE DOING. AND I FELT IT WAS NECESSARY TO FOCUS ON WHAT I THOUGHT WE WERE FOCUSSING ON WHICH WERE BEST PRACTICES TO MOVE FORWARD IN THIS PROCESS.
FOR ME IT HAS BEEN A BIT DISAPPOINTING AS WELL BECAUSE I HAVE THAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO OUR DUE DILIGENCE AS BEST AS POSSIBLE AND I JUST WANT THE PUBLIC TO KNOW THAT I FELT LIKE I HAD A PRETTY CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THE EXECUTIVES DID AT THE CHRIS KINDLE MARKET, WHAT THE BOARD DID, AND THEN AFTER THAT, OBVIOUSLY, WHAT RYAN, WHAT OUR CHAIRMAN SAID. JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT. THANK YOU.
>> AGAIN, I THINK WE SHOULD GET INTO THE MEAT OF THE TWO AFFILIATES WE HAVE BEFORE US. I WANT TO COME BACK TO A CONVERSATION AND A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT AT THE LAST MEETING AND WE CAN DO THAT AFTER WE GO THROUGH THE TWO AFFILIATES WE HAVE ON THE AGENDA NOW SO WE CAN GIVE CITY STAFF
SOME OF THEIR TIME BACK. >> GOOD EVENING, CHAIRMEN, COMMITTEE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. TONIGHT WE ARE FOCUSSING ON TWO COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT CORPORATIONS. LUCKILY FOR YOU ALL, YOU WILL HEAR FROM ME THE LEAST TONIGHT. OTHER PEOPLE WILL TAKE OVER. WE WANTED TO SPEND A QUICK SECOND TALKING ABOUT AN OVER VIEW OF WHAT IS A COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION. THIS IDEA OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION IS ESTABLISHED IN INDIANA LAW. WE HAVE THE CITATION THERE. THEY ARE REALLY DESIGNED TO FACILITATE COMMUNITY IMPROVEMENTS IN CONJUNCTION WITH REDEVELOPMENT. THERE ARE A COUPLE OF KINDS OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT CORPORATIONS. THERE IS SOMETIMES REFERRED TO AS MORE COMMUNITY OR NEIGHBORHOOD BASED, THINK OF NEIGHBORS WHO GET TOGETHER WHO WANT TO DEAL WITH THE FORCLOSED PROPERTY AT THE END OF THE STREET OR THE RUN DOWN COMMERCIAL SITE. THEY NEED TO BUY IT. HOW DO THEY BUY IT? AS AN INDIVIDUAL OR CAN THEY PULL TOGETHER AND DO IT AS A COLLECTIVE ENTITY, DONATE MONEY AND HAVE THE ENTITY BUY IT. SO WE SEE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT CORPORATIONS THAT ARE NEIGHBORHOOD CENTRIC ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AND CERTAINLY IN INDIANA. THERE IS ALSO THE TYPE OF CDC WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TODAY IS A LITTLE MORE OF A TOOL THAT IS USED IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE CITY TO AID REDEVELOPMENT PROJECTS. IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THESE DID NOT START IN CARAMEL. THEY WEREN'T INVENTED IN CARMEL. THEY HAVE BEEN AROUND IN INDIANA FOR A NUMBER OF DECADES AND ARE USED IN COMMUNITIES ALL OVER. WHEN I SAY THESE CDCS, I MEAN BOTH TYPE, THE NEIGHBORHOOD CENTRIC TYPE AS WELL AS THIS TYPE THAT IS A TOOL FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. IT REALLY IS, TOOL IS THE BEST WORD FOR IT. THIS IS A TOOL IN THE TOOL KIT. IT SERVES A PURPOSE.
IT CAN BE VALUABLE. IT DOESN'T DO EVERYTHING LIKE ANY TOOL BUT IT DOES FACILITATE CERTAIN TRANSACTIONS. LATER ON, MR. ASSESSKY WILL BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE TRANSACTIONS TO TALK ABOUT HOW IT HAS BEEN UTILIZED IN THE PAST.
>> SO MOVING ON TODAY, WE HAVE TWO NONPROFITS IN FRONT OF US
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THAT LOOK DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT FROM THE TWO THAT WE HAVE REVIEWED SO FAR. PROMOTE CARMEL AND CARMEL CHRIS KINDLE MARK WERE 5013C ORGANIZATIONS . AND I WANT TO TAKE A MINUTE TO TOG ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A 3 AND A 4 AND HOW THEY INTERACT WITH THE CITY. 5013C, THEY ARE ABLE TO ACCEPT CHARITIABLE CONTRIBUTIONS. PEOPLE GRANT MONEY AND IN RETURN, THEY GET A CHARITIABLE DEDUCTION. THAT MEANS THE IRS AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT GETS LESS TAX MONEY. THE IRS HAS ALL OF THESE ENHANCED AND VERY SIGNIFICANT RESTRICTIONS THAT APPLY TO 5013CS THAT DO NOT APPLY TO 501C4. A 5013C HAS A CHARITIABLE PURPOSE AND IT IS SPECIFIC. IN CONTRAST 50134 IS CREATED TO BENEFIT AT LARGE AND PEOPLE DO NOT MAKE CHARITIABLE CONTRIBUTIONS TO IT. THE IRS DOES NOT REGULATE IT TO THE SAME DEGREE. WHILE THE NONPROFIT STRUCTURE, HOW IT HAS FORMED ARTICLES AND BYLAWS LOOK SIMILAR TO A 5013C, AT A FEDERAL LEVEL, THE OVER SIGHT OF IT IS CONSIDERABLY DIFFERENT. 501C4S CAN DO THINGS THAT THE 3S ARE LIMITED IN. 501C4 CAN DO SIZABLE LOBBYING. 501C4S CAN HAVE SOME POLITICAL ACTIVITY. 5013CS CANNOT. THAT GIVES YOU A LITTLE DIFFERENCE.>> AND A QUESTION, WE ARE DEFINING AND DECIDING WHICH OF THE NONPROFITS TO SET UP, WHY WOULD WE CHOOSE A 501C4 FOR PURPOSES OF THIS VERSUS 501C3 AND THIS MAY BE A FINANCIAL QUESTION FOR CITY CRC. WHAT IS THE DISTINCTION THERE? WE WILL START WITH THAT. THE FIRST QUESTION IS SOMEONE GOING TOMAKE A CHARITIABLE CONTRIBUTION TO IT. IF THE ANSWER IS NO, THE DEFAULT IS 501C4 BECAUSE THE REGULATORY OVER SIGHT AND COMPLIANCE AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL IS LOWER. THE COMPLIANCE COSTS ARE LOWER. IF YOU ARE PREPARING TAX RETURNS AND YOU ARE DOING THINGS LIKE THAT, IT IS MORE EXPENSIVE TO BE IN THE 5013C WORLD. MOST CLIENTS WOULD NOT OPT IN UNLESS THEY NEED TO GIVE SOMEONE A CHARITY REDUCTION. IT IS SIMPLER AND LESS COSTLY.
>> OTHER THAN THESE TWO, ARE THERE ANY OTHER 501C4S AFFILIATED AND WORKING WITH THE CITY?
>> I'M NOT SPECIFICALLY KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT THAT BUT I HAVE NOT SPECIFICALLY LOOKED AT THE BROADER LIST. CORPORATION COUNSEL HAS REVIEWED, I THINK THERE WERE 17 ON THE LIST. I
HAVE NOT REVIEWED ANY OF THEM. >> OKAY. SO THE FIRST ONE WE ARE GOING TO LOOK AT TONIGHT IS CARMEL MIDTOWN COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION. IT APPLIED TO THE IRS ON JUNE 30 AND RECEIVED ITS IRS DETERMINATION LEBL ON JUNE 30, 2022 NOTING IT WAS A 501C4 ORGANIZATION. IT IS SUBJECT TO SOME REQUIREMENTS THAT LOOK LIKE A 5013C. THE FIRST IS THAT THE EARNINGS MUST BE DEVOTED TO CHARITIABLE OR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES. THAT SOUNDS A LOT LIKE A 5013C REQUIREMENT. IT CANNOT ALLOW THE BENEFITS FOR THE PRIVATE INDIVIDUAL. IT MUST NOT BE ORGANIZED FOR PROFIT AND MUST BE ORGANIZED FOR THE PROMOTION OF SOCIAL WELFARE. THOSE ARE THE REQUIREMENTS. YOU CAN SEE THEY WERE EXPRESSED WITH THE OTHER ORGANIZATIONS DIRECTLY INTO THE ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION. THE SPECIFIC PURPOSE OF CMCDC IS TO BENEFIT AND PERFORM AND CARRY OUT THEICATORABLE, EDGEATIONAL OR RECREATIONAL PURPOSES OF THE CITY OF CARMEL. AND THE REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION WHICH WE WILL REFER TO AS COMMISSION.
IT IS TO FURTHER CULTURAL, ECONOMIC, REDEVELOPMENT AND REHABILITATION, STIMULATE CAPITAL INVESTMENT AND STABILIZATION AND TO BE FOCUSED ON THE GROWTH OF BUSINESS,
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BEAUTIFYING PUBLIC SPACES AND PROVIDING FINANCIAL SYSTEMS FOR REHABILITATING OR REPAIRING COMMERCIAL OR RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES. ONE OF THE THINGS IS IT IS FOR THE BENEFIT O OF THE CITY WHICH LOOKS LIKE CCI WHICH IS A TYPE ONE SUPPORTING ORGANIZATION. IT IS FOCUSED ON CAPITAL INVESTMENT AND REVITALIZATION AND REALLY COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIALPROPERTY. >> QUESTION THERE. WE TALK ABOUT MISSION A LITTLE AT THE LAST ONE, I'M WONDERING, AS WE LOOK AT THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE MISSION STATEMENTS FOR NONPROFITS, HOW IMPORTANT IS THAT FOR THE CITY OF CARMEL? IS THAT A TRIGGERING PROCESS FOR AFFILIATION TO THE CITY IN A WAY
THAT TOYED IT TO OPERATIONS? >> YEAH, SO I THINK THAT WE HAVE BEEN TALKING THROUGHOUT THE MEETINGS THAT THERE ARE TWO WAYS TO AFFILIATE WITH THE CITY. ONE IS AT A GOVERNANCE LEVEL AND ONE IS AT A FUNDING LEVEL. FOR THE FIRST FOUR WE SELECTED, THEY ARE RELATED TO THE CITY T AT A GOVERNANCE LEVEL AND THAT MEANS THE CITY CARES. BECAUSE THE PURPOSE STATEMENTS ARE EXPRESSED IN THE ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION AND AS YOU SEE, THE CITY WEIGHED IN WHEN THEY WERE FORMED AND THE CITY IN SOME RESPECT HAS TO APPROVE ANY CHANGES TO THEM. PURPOSES CLAUSES ARE REQUIRED TO BE IN THE ARTICLES OF CORPORATION WHICH IS A PUBLIC DOCUMENT. IN BOTH OF THE ENTITIES WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TODAY, THEY CANNOT BE CHANGED WITHOUT SOME CITY APPROVAL. IT DIFFERS A LITTLE BY THE ENTITY BUT THE CITY HAS TO SIPE OFF ON THE CHANGES. YOU SHOULD CARE ABOUT THEM WHEN YOU FORM THEM IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY ARE. I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE ALWAYS WANTED TO POINT FORWARD TO WHAT IS THE BEST PRACTICE. PERSONALLY, I SEE WITH MY CLIENTS AND WOULD RECOMMEND TO ANY CLIENT THAT IS GOVERNMENTAL OR QUASI GOVERNMENTAL THAT IF THERE IS A GOVERNMENT NEXUS BETWEEN THE CITY AND ENTITY, IF IT IS 501C3, I RECOMMEND IT BE A TYPE ONE ORGANIZATION SO CAN CAN'T GO AWAY. AND THE KEY CHANGES TO GOVERNING DOCUMENTS WHICH ANCHOR THE ORGANIZATION ALWAYS BE SUBJECT TO THE WRITTEN APPROVAL OF THE CITY IN SOME RESPECT. YOU WILL NOT BE SURPRISED AS WITH THE OTHER ORGANIZATIONS, WHEN THE PURPOSES WERE EXPRESSED IN CMCDC'S ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION, THEY WERE PULLED DIRECT TALLY AND SIGNIFICANTLY INTO THE 1024A WHICH IS THE IRS APPLICATION FOR TAX EXEMPTION FOR A 501C4. A 501C3 FILES A 2023. IT INCLUDES THE PURPOSE LANGUAGE AND MADE THE POINT THAT CMDC WILL RECEIVE GRANTS TO PAY FOR REAL ESTATE AND CONSTRUCTION. IT WILL REMIT RENT PAYMENTS FOR OWNED PROPERTIES DIRECTLY TO THE COMMISSION AND IT WILL GRANT SOME IMPROVED REAL ESTATE BACK TO THE COMMISSION. YOU WILL SEE THIS WAS A SUPPORT ORGANIZATION TO THE COMMISSION. IT WAS ANCHORED TO IT WITH RESPECT TO EACH OF THOSE PRIMARY PURPOSES. YES?
>> QUESTION HERE. WHEN A 501C4 FILES ITS TAX, THE501C 3 HAVE
990S, DO THESE ALSO? >> YES. YO MADE AN IMPORTANT POINT. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A 3 AND 4, 501C3 HAVE TO BE A TYPE OF PUBLIC CHARITY. THE TYPE ONE SUPPORTING ORGANIZATION LANGUAGE IS NECESSARY FOR 501C3 TO CHECK THE BOX. 501C4 DOES NOT HAVE THAT ANALYSIS IT IS UNIQUE TO 3.
IF THE CITY IS GOING TO MAINTAIN ACCOUNTABILITY AND CONTROL WITH A 501C4, IT MUST BE AT THE GOVERNANCE LEVEL BECAUSE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS NOT GOING TO IMPOSE IT. SO IN THE CASE OF A TYPE ONE SUPPORTING ORGANIZATION, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IMPOSES IT. FOR A 501C4, IT MUST REST IN THE ARTICLES AND BYLAWS WHICH IS DOES HERE. SO THE GOVERNANCE STRUCTURE FOR CMCDC IS IF IT IS DISSOLVED, IT'S ASSETS WILL BE DISTRIBUTED TO THE CITY OR COMMISSION FOR PUBLIC PURPOSES AND THAT IS APPROPRIATE BECAUSE IT IS REAL ESTATE. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE SINCE THE CITY WAS INVOLVED IN FUNDING IT THAT THE ASSETS, IF IT IS EVER DISVOLVED TO COME BACK TO THE CITY. ONE OF THE CHECKS AND BALANCES WE TALKED ABOUT IS PRESENT HERE.
ANY AMENDMENTS TO THE ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION REQUIRE THE APPROVAL OF THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE COMMISSION AND AMENDMENTS TO THE BYLAWS REQUIRE APPROVAL AND RATING BY THE MAYOR AND COMMISSION. THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS HAS THREE DIRECTORS.
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THEY ARE APPOINTED BY THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE COMMISSION. THE TERMS ARE ONE YEAR. IT HAS TYPICAL OFFICERS OF PRESIDENT RGS SECRETARY, TREASURER ELECTED BY THE BOARD THAT SERVE ONE YEAR TERMS. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU ASKED ME TO WEIGH IN ON WITH RESPECT TO PROMOTE CARMEL AND CCI AND THAT WE SPOKE AT LENGTH ABOUT IS INDEPENDENT LEGAL COUNSEL AND INDEPENDENT FINANCIAL COUNSEL. I WANT TO ADDRESS THAT IN TERMS OF THE GOVERNANCE STRUCTURES. THESE TWO ENTITIES ARE DIFFERENT. WITH RESPECT TO CMCDC, IT DOES NOT HAVE INDEPENDENT LEGAL COUNSEL OR INDEPENDENT FINANCIAL COUNSEL. 4CDC DOES. I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT FOR THE COMMITTEE TO THINK THROUGH THAT. WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT PROMOTE CARMEL AND CCI, THE REASON THE MAYOR WAS ADAMANT THEY GET INDEPENDENT LEGAL COUNSEL IS BECAUSE THE CITY'S CORPORATION COUNSEL WAS SERVING IN THAT ACCEPT. NEITHER OF THOSE ENTITIES HAD LEGAL COUNSEL. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT RISK MITIGATION, IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE MITIGATE THAT RISK. YOU HAD CITY LEGAL COUNSEL PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE THAT WAS THEIR CLIENT. THAT MADE THE CITY LIABLE FOR THE ADVICE THAT WAS BEING GIVEN. SO ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS MAYOR FINKMAN DID WAS SAY I DON'T WANT MY CORPORATION HAVING ANOTHER CLIENT AND ASKED THEM TO HAVE LEGAL COUNSEL, SPECIFICALLY AT CCI. SO THAT DYNAMIC IS NOT PRESENT HERE FOR EITHER OF THESE ENTITY BECAUSE THERE ARE LAW FIRMS AND FINANCIAL CONSULTANTS1 THAT ARE WEIGHING IN ON BOTH OF THESE. AT 4CDC IT HAS ITS OWN INDEPENDENT LEGAL COUNSEL AND OWN FINANCIAL CONSULTANT. AT CMCDC, THAT IS NOT THE CASE. THERE IS A LAW FIRM, IT REPRESENTED THE COMMISSION. THE RATIONAL FOR THAT IS THAT THE INTERESTS ARE ALIGNED. FOR CMCDC, THE COMMISSION OR THE CITY IS SIGNING OFF ON EVERYTHING THAT THEY DO. THAT MEANS THE INTERESTS ARE ALIGNED AND THE POINT IS DO WE WANT TO PAY A SECOND LAWFIRM TO REVIEW EVERY SET OF DOCUMENTS? DO WE PAY A SECOND FINANCIAL CONSULTANT TO LOOK AT ALL OF THE TRANSACTIONS. I ACKNOWLEDGE THERE ARE GOOD REASONS FOR SHARING LEGAL COUNSEL THERE. I SUBMIT TO YOU THAT I WOULD SUGGEST YOU CONSIDER IT FROM THE CMCDC DIRECTOR POSITION. EVERY LAWYER HAS A CLIENT AND WE OWE ETHICAL DUTIES TO THE CLIENT.RIGHT NOW CMCDC DOES NOT HAVE A LAWFIRM THAT OWES ETHICAL TO IT AND IT IS DOING REAL ESTATE TRANSACTIONS. THE DIRECTORS OF CMDCD OWE A FIDUCIARY DUTY AND THEY ARE RELYING ON LEGAL COUNSEL THAT DOES NOT OWE ETHICAL DUTIES TO THEM. I KNOW IT WOULD INVOLVE ADDITIONAL FEES BUT WHEN I THOUGHT IT FROM THE DIRECTOR'S PERSPECTIVE, I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A GOOD QUESTION FOR THIS COMMITTEE. I'M NOT MANDATING THAT. I'M NOT SAYING THAT, RECOMMENDING THAT. WHAT I'M SAYING IS THIS IS ONE OF THOSE ISSUES THAT WHEN WE WERE GOING THROUGH AND REVIEWING, WE FOUND. AND WE THOUGHT THIS IS A GOOD ISSUE FOR
THE COMMITTEE TO WEIGH IN. >> AND QUESTION THERE AND MAYBE HENRY CAN TELL ME THE ALIGNMENT OF THOSE TWO THINGS, THESE SPECIFIC 501C4S TEAM TO BE FINANCIAL INSTRUMENTS O OF THE BROADER SUBSET OF RIGHTS THAT C DSHS C HAS. THE ALIGNMENT SEEMS TO PROTECT AND BUFFER BOTH PARTIES FROM POTENTIAL LAWSUITS WHEREAS THE SEPARATION OF THE ALIGNMENTS CREATES A RIFT AND COULD CREATE LEGAL TENSION BETWEEN THE TWO ENTITIES IN A WAY THAT MAY NOT MAKE SENSE. BUT WONDERING, AS THEY WERE STOOD UP, AS THEY WERE USED, HOW THOSE RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN THE TWO ARE FULLY IN ALIGNMENT AND SEEING IF IF THERE IS ANYTHING TO CLEAN WITH THOSE THINGS WORKING IN TANDEM THRU THE
SHARED CULPABILITY. >> THANK YOU, REDEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR. THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. AFTER MAYOR LEE IS DONE WITH HER PART, I WILL DESCRIBE WHAT THE ENTITIES DO AND IN THAT CONVERSATION, IT WILL BECOME CLEAR WHAT MAYOR LEE
IS TALKING ABOUT. >> PERFECT, SOUNDS GOOD. AND AS WE GET TO THAT, YOU CAN SIT AND THINK AS SHE IS GOING THROUGH
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HER STUFF ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE RELATIONSHIP THAT DOES HAVE OUTSIDE COUNSEL AND THE ONE THAT DOESN'T AND HOW THOSE THINGS WORK FROM A GOVERNMENT PERSPECTIVE FOR YOU.. >> YEAH, AND AGAIN THIS IS A QUESTION FOR THIS GROUP TO SPEAK INTO. AS I SAID EARLIER, I MADE STRONG RECOMMENDATIONS WITH RESPECT TO CCI BECAUSE IT WAS NEGOTIATING A CONTRACT DIRECTLY WITH THE CITY AND DIDN'T HAVE LEGAL COUNSEL. IN THAT SITUATION, WE WERE ASKING CORPORATION COUNSEL TO WEAR TWO HATS IN A WAY THAT I THOUGHT THEY WOULD HAVE DIVIDED LOYALTIES. I DON'T SEE THAT RISK IN THIS SITUATION. I WAS SIMPLY ASKING IF I WERE ONE OF THE DIRECTORS, HOW WOULD THAT FEEL FOR ME.
>> AND WE HAVE THREE LAWYERS NOW AND A LAWSUIT. SO KEEP THAT IN MIND AS WE LOOK AT THE PROCESS WHEN WE SEPARATED THE PROCEDURES RGS GIVE LAWYERS MORE WORK TO DO, THEY FIND MORE WORK TO DO.
>> AND YOU HAVE A LAWSUIT WHICH MEANS THE DIRECTORS DON'T HAVE COUNSEL AND THEY DON'T HAVE ATTORNEY CLIENT PRIVILEGE. AND WE LAWYERS ALWAYS FIND WORK TO DO, YOU ARE CORRECT. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT CMCDC BEFORE I MOVE ON? SO THESE ENTITIES LIKE THE TWO PREVIOUS ENTITIES ARE ESSENTIALLY OWNED FOR THE
BENEFIT OF THE CITY PARK? >> ORGANIZED, YES.
>> ORGANIZED FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE CITY. SO THEY EXIST FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD AT THE PLEASURE OF THE CITY? YES.
>> JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE. >> OKAY.
>> BOTH OF THESE ORGANIZATIONS ARE VERY TRADITIONAL REDEVELOPMENT ENTITIES THAT ANY SOPHISTICATED CITY WOULD HAVE.
IN SOME RESPECTS THEY ARE DOING THINGS THAT YOU WOULD SEE BUILDING CORPORATIONS AND OTHER ENTITIES DO WHERE WE ARE MANAGING REAL ESTATE AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS A VERY DISCRETE FUNCTION THAT WE WILL MANAGE IN THIS LEGAL ENTITY.
BOTH OF THESE LOOK AND ACT AND OPERATE VERY SIMILARLY TO CDCS ALL OVER INSTATE. SO LET'S TURN TO 4CDC. IT WAS INCORPORATED IN 2009 AND APPLIED TO THE IRS FOR A 501C4 LETTER WHICH IT RECEIVED IN 2011. IT IS SUGGEST TO THE SAME 501C4 REQUIREMENTS THAT TI TALKED EARLIER. SO I WON'T T GO THRU EACH OF THEM. THEY ARE ON THE SLIDE. THOSE ARE THE SIMILAR REQUIREMENTS OF EVERY 501C4 ORGANIZATION. ITS PURPOSES, IT IS TO BE ORGANIZED AND OPERATED EXCLUSIVELY TO BENEFIT , PERFORM, AND CARRY OUT THE CHARITIABLE EDUCATIONAL, RECREATIONAL AND PUBLIC PURPOSES OF THE CITY. VERY SPLAR SIMILAR. STIMULATE CAPITAL INVESTMENT, ENHANCING AND BEAUTIFYING PUBLIC AREAS AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE FOR THE CONSTRUCTION, REHABILITATION AND REPAIR OF COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES. VERY SIMILAR TO OUR OTHER NONPROFIT.
AGAIN, THE LANGUAGE THAT WAS IN ITS ARTICLES WAS ALSO IN THE FORM 1024 THAT IT SUBMITTED TO THE IRS IN 2010 BUT YOU SEE MORE REFINEMENT HERE. IT WILL EXTEND ENERGY LINES, RETROFIT CITY BUILDINGS, THE PARCEL 7 OFFICE BUILDING AND FOCUS ON THE CARMEL ARTS AND DESIGN DISTRICT, PERFORMING ARTS CENTER, AND REDEVELOPMENT PROJECTS. AND ITS REVENUES INCLUDE GRANTS FROM THE COMMISSION AND RENT FROM THE LEASES OF CITY OFFICE BUILDINGS.
I THINK HENRY WILL SHARE THE INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT THE REVENUE LOOKS LIKE AND HOW THEY ARE UTILIZED. IT'S GOVERNANCE STRUCTURE, IF IT IS DISSOLVED, THE ASSETS WILL BE DISTRIBUTED TO THE CITY FOR PUBLIC PURPOSES. THAT IS A CHECK AND BALANCE. WE NEVER WANT THAT TO CHANGE. AMENDMENTS OF THE ARTICLES MUST BE APPROVED IN WRITING BY THE MAYOR AND COMMISSION. AMENDMENTS TO THE BYLAWS REQUIRE APPROVAL IN WRITING BY THE MAYOR AND COMMISSION. SO THERE IS A LITTLE DIFFERENCE THERE AS YOU CAN TELL. THE LAWYER IN ME SAYS WHY. AND THEY ARE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT IN TERMS OF HOW THEY ARE ANCHORED TO THE COMMISSION, HOW THEY ARE ANCHORED TO THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE COMMISSION AND HOW THEY ARE ANCHORED TO THE CITY. BUT IN EACH OF THEM, THERE AREOVER SIGHT. THESE THREE DIRECTORS ARE APPOINTED ONE BY THE MAYOR, ONE BY THE COMMISSION, AND ONE BY THE COMMON COUNCIL. THE OFFICERS ARE THE SAME. THERE IS A
[00:35:02]
PRESIDENT, SECRETARY, TREASURER. AND IT IS ELECTED BY THE BOARD WITH TERMS OF ONE YEAR. AS I PREVIEWEDED EARLIER, 4CDC HAS TWO SETS OF ACTIVITIES. ONE IS IN COMPLETE CONJUNCTION WITH THE COMMISSION AND THE CITY. IT ALSO HAS A GRANT T MAKING PROGRAM WHERE IT IS INTERACTING WITH THIRD PARTIES. IT IS INTERACTING WITH CHARITIES. THAT IS A REASON AGAIN FOR IT TO HAVE INDEPENDENT LEGAL COUNSEL AND A FINANCIAL CONSULTANT WHICH IT DOES . IT HAS ACTIVITIES THERE THAT ARE NOT BEING APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION OR THE CITY. WHEN I ASKED THAT QUESTION -- WHEN I ASK THAT QUESTION WITH RESPECT TO THE LAST CDC, IT DIDN'T HAVE ANY OUTSIDE ACTIVITIES NOT BEING OTHERWISE APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION OF THE CITY. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? THE COMMISSION AND THE CITY HAVE EYES ON EVERY SINGLE ACTIVITY THAT IS GOING ON AT THE 4CDC. 4CDC DOES HAVE SOME INDEPENDENCE IN THE GRANT PROGRAM OF THINGS THAT ARE NOT APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION OR THE CDC AND INDEPENDENT COUNSEL. SO THAT IS KIND OF CONCLUDES THE GUVENANCE STRUCTURE. DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS BEFORE I TURN ITOVER TO HENRY? >> ONE MORE ON THE MAKE UP OF THE BOARD THERE. OBVIOUSLY, ONE HAS KIND OF DIFFERENT APPOINTEES, ONE MORE RECENTLY FORMED ONE HAS THE DIRECTOR.
I'M WONDERING IF THAT IS LEARNING O OVER TIME, THE LURY ONE WAS THE EARLY ONE AND THERE WAS A SHARED PROCESS? OR IF THERE IS ANY KIND OF ROLE THERE OR RATIONALE FOR THAT CHANGE HISTORICALLY OVER TIME FROM A PEST PRACTICES PEREXPECTATIVE.
>> I DON'T KNOW HISTORICALLY. I DON'T KNOW IF THE REST OF YOU KNOW. MY CLIENTS -- HENRY PROBABLY KNOWS AND I WILL TURN IT O OVER TO HIM. ACROSS MY CLIENTS, THE PREPONDERANCE OF MY CLIENTS WHO ARE QUASI-GOVERNMENT AL WOULD HAVE THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH APPOINTING BUT I DO HAVE CLIENTS WHERE IT IS SHARED BETWEEN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH AND THE LEGISLATIVE BODY.
>> HEY, EVERYONE. I CAN WALK OVER THERE.
>> HEY, AEFR WN. HENRY MASETSKY, REDEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR. I HAVE BEEN FOR THE LAST 8 YEARS, BEFORE THAT I WAS A CORPORATE AND REALS ATTORNEY AT A BIG LAW FIRM. SO WE HAVE BEEN TALKING A LOT IN THE ABSTRACT. SO I'M HOPING TO GO THROUGH THE ACTIVITIES OF THE TWO GROUPS AND IT CAN HELP ANSWER SOME OF THE QUESTIONS. I WILL ALSO SAY THAT 4CDC WAS FORMED ALONG TIME AGO AND FORMED TO CREATE A PALLADIUM CENTER FOR THE PERFORMING ARTS.
BUT THE GIST OF MY CONVERSATION WILL BE FOCUSED ON WHAT DO THESE ENTITIES DO NOW. THAT I THINK, THAT CONTEXT WILL BE RELEVANT.
OKAY. WHAT I'M GOING TO DO IS GO THROUGH THE TWO ENTITIES.
THEN I WILL AFTERWARD DRAW THE KIND OF MORE OF THE DISTINCTIONS BETWEEN THE TWO. WHAT DOES THE CARMEL MIDTOWN COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT CORPORATION DO? IT FACILITATES REAL ESTATE TRANSACTIONS RELATED TO PROJECTS. GENERALLY EVERYTHING IT DOES MATCHES THE ACTIONS OF CRC OR COUNCIL. I SAY GENERALLY BECAUSE THE ANSWERER IS ALMOST ALWAYS. HOWEVER, LET ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE. THE MIDTOWN CDC OWNED THE BUILDING THAT THE MIDTOWN FARMERS MARKET IS IN. THE CARMEL FARMERS MARKET NEEDED A PLACE TO GO. SO THE BUILDING THAT THE MIDTOWN CDC OWNS IS A PERFECT BUILDING TO HOUSE THE WINT TER FARMERS MARKET T. SO THE WINTER FARMERS MARKET WENT TO THE BUILDING, WE WORKED TO GET A LEASE TO GET THEM INTO THE BUILDING. WE CHECKED WITH THE MAYOR. THE MAYOR WAS COMFORTABLE WITH THAT. THERE WAS NOT A CRC ACTION THAT SAID GET THE FARMERS MARKET TT INTO THE BUILDING. IT WAS A VOTE TO ALLOW THE FARMERS MARKET T INTO THE BUILDING. THAT IS AN EXAMPLE OF NOT A CRC FORMAL ACTION, THE SPIRIT T OF WHAT THE MIDTOWN CDC IS DOING IS IN WITH THAT. THE STAFF AND MY FINANCE DIRECTOR ATTEND EVERY MEETING OF THE 4CDC AND EVERY ONE OF THE MIDTOWN CDC AND WE HAVE FROM DAY ONE.
[00:40:07]
>> FOLLOW UP QUESTION, DOES THE PURPOSE OF THAT BUILDING OR A THING LIKE THAT FOR THE 4CDC MAKE IT OUT OF THE CHAIN OF
CUSTODY? >> THIS BUILDING THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WAS PURCHASED BY THE REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION WITH FUNDS GIVEN TO IT BY THE CITY COUNCIL FOR LAND ACQUISITION. THAT REQUIRED THE NEED TO COME IN FRONT OF CITY COUNCIL TO ASK FOR THE FUNDS TO BE USED FOR THE PURCHASE OF THE BUILDING. COUNCIL SAID YES. THEN THE REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION PURCHASED THE BUILDING. THEN IN A PUBLIC MEETING THE REDEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE TRANSFERRED THE BUILDING TO THE MIDTOWN CDC. THIS BUILDING IS SUGGEST TO THE LEASE. ONE DAY WHEN THE SONG BOOK HAS FUNDING, IT WILL GO THERE. MEANTIME, THE MIDTOWN CDC ARE CARE TAKERS OF IT AND ALLOWED THE WINTER FARMERS MARKET IN THERE. THE ONLY REASON WE OWN THIS IS SUBSEQUENT T TO A CRC AND COUNCIL VOTE. SO THERE IS NO SECRET REAL ESTATE TRANSACTIONS THAT OCCUR. I WILL JUST SAY IT THAT WAY. GEP AGAIN, GENERALLY, ACTIVITIES INCLUDE LEASING AND OWNING LAND. SQUARE IS AN EXAMPLE OF THAT ALSO BOUGHT BY CITY COUNCIL AND TRANSFERRED OVER TO THE MIDTOWN CDC. THE OTHER THING IT DOES, THERE ARE TIMES WHEN THE CITY COUNCIL CREATES ALLOCATION AREAS TO CAPTURE TIFF AND AS PART OF THAT GRANTS ARE GIVEN AS PART OF THE DEVELOPMENTS TO EFFECUATE THAT INTERACTION. SO THE CITY COUNSEL CREATES AN ALLOCATION IN A PROJECT CALLED THE BRIDGES BETWEEN SPRING MILL AND U.S. 31.
THE CITY INCENTVISED THAT PROJECT BY HELPING THE DEVELOPER BUILD THE ROUND ABOUT, A $400,000 ROUND ABOUT. IT IS CALLED SLATE AVENUE. SO CITY COUNCIL VOTES TO CREATE AN ALLOCATION AREA. THAT PROCESS THEN EFFECUATED AT THE REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION THAT DOES A PROJECT AGREEMENT WITH THE DEVELOPER, GRANTS MONEY TO THE MIDTOWN CDC FOR THAT ROUND ABOUT WORK AND THE MIDTOWN CDC RECEIVED THE GRANT, GRANTS IT TO A DEVELOPER FOR THE ROUND ABOUT THAT THE ENGINEERING IS OVER SEEING. NOTHING IS HAPPENING THAT IS BEHIND THE SCENES. IT IS ALL GENERALLY MATCHING PREVIOUS TRANSACTIONS. TODAY THOSE ARE THE TWO KINDS OF ACTIVITIES THAT EXIST AT THE MIDTOWN CDC LEVEL.
I WILL SAY THAT RYAN WILMERING THAT REPRESENTS THE REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION IS INCLUDED IN EVERY MEETING AND ON EVERY EMAIL WHETHER IT IS ABOUT WRITTEN CONSENT OR NOT DURING MIDDOWN CDC ACTIVITY. HE IS NOT FORMALLY MIDTOWN CDC COUNCIL, MIDTOWN CDC IS CARRYING OUT THE WORK OF THE REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION WITH THE COUNSEL INVOLVED IN ALL ACTIVITIES.
>> FOLLOW UP QUESTION. YOU SAID OBVIOUSLY THE WINTER FARMERS MARKET IS IN THE BUILDING OWNED BY THE 4CDC.
>> YES. >> ARE WE -- DO WE LOOK AT THAT IN A SIMILAR WAY FOR REIMBURSEMENT OR PROCESSING FROM THE FARMERS MARKET OR IS THAT ASSET BEING IN KIND DONATED TO THE FARMERS MARKET TO USE OVER THE WINTER? IS THERE RENT BEING
PAID? >> FARMERS MARKET PAYS $1,000 A MONTH TO COVER UTILIES. THE CARDINAL GRAYS ARE IN THERE. THE TECH HOUNDS ARE IN THERE AS WELL. WE WENT TO SHOW THE LAST THREE YEARS OF TRANSACTIONS BECAUSE TRANSPARENCY IS THE NAME OF THE GAME HERE. LET'S GO THROUGH IT IT. 2023, THERE WAS A GRANT FROM THE CRC TO THE MIDTOWN CDC FOR 275 VETERANS WAY. THAT IS A STUDIO BUILDING. THAT GRANT HAPPENED BECAUSE THE CITY COUNCIL PUT AN ALLOCATION OVER THE STUDIO M BUILDING. THIS IS US EFFECUATING THE TRANSACTION. NEXT, A GRANT $400,000 AS PART OF THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE BRIDGES 2 PROJECT, THAT ROUND ABOUT. NEXT, THERE YOU SEE THE SAME $60,000, AFTER THE COUNCIL CREATED AN ALLOCATION AREA AT THE STUDIO M HEADQUARTERS AND THE CRC GRANTED THE 60 GRAND, YOU SEE THE SAME 60 GRAND COMING BACK OUT TO EFFECUATE THE TRANSACTION. THERE IS AN ADDITIONAL CONTRIBUTION TO AN ALOFT HOTEL AND 465, THAT IS GOING BACK TO AN ALLOCATION AREA. THE COUNCIL PUT OVER THAT
[00:45:05]
SEVERAL YEARS AGO. THEN YOU SEE THE SAME $400,000 FOR THE ROUND ABOUT COMING OUT OF THE MIDTOWN CDC TO THE DEVELOPER. JUMPING 250224, MONAN MONAN SQUARE IS A PROJECT IN CONSTRUCTION WHERE PART OF THE DEAL WAS THAT THE DEVELOPER TRADED SOME LAND AND THEN HAD AN OPTION TO PURCHASE SOME LAND. WHAT YOU SEE IN 2024, SALE OF MOMAN SQUARE, THAT IS PART OF A PROJECT AGREEMENT THAT THE CRC APPROVES IN PUBLIC. THEN THE MIDTOWN CDC IS EFFECUATING THE AGREEMENT. SO THAT IS REVENUE TO THE MIDTOWN CDC THAT SITS THERE. NEXT IN 2024, THE 4CDC WAS LEASING OUT SPACE IN THE JAMES BUILDING. THERE WAS A GRANT OF MONEY TO HELP THE TI NUMBERS TO HELP GET THE TENANT IN THE BUILDING. THEN IN 2024, YOU SEE THE PURCHASE O OF 1132 RANGE LINE. THAT IS THE OLD TOWN HEADQUARTERS ON THE CORNER. WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THERE? IN 2024, THIS COUNSEL REVIEWED THE PROJECT AGREEMENT AND -- APPROVED THE PROJECT WHICH INCLUDES LAND OWNED BY THE STEWART FAMILY, A CITY PARCEL AND THEN OLD TOWN HEADQUARTERS.AFTER THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVED THE PROJECT AND WE DISCUSSED THE PARCELS OF LAND THAT WOULD GO INTO IT, HERE WE ARE WORKING THE DEAL AND IT IS THE MIDTOWN CDC THAT IS PURCHASING THE BUILDING SO THAT IT COULD GO INTO THE REDEVELOPMENT WHEN EVERYTHING IS FINAL, AND ALL OF THE LENDING IS LOCKED UP. IN 2025, THIS YEAR, YOU SEE THE GRANT FOR THE ALOFT HOTEL THAT MATCHES A BREVIOUS GRANT. AND AS PART OF THE PROJECT FOR MANAN SQUARE, THE CDC IS OVER SEEING THE REMEDIATION WHICH MEANS I'M OVER SEEING WITH MILLER AS COUNSEL. IA SEE EXPENDITURES FOR THE ENVIRONMENTAL REMEDIATION. THIS KIND OF STUFF, OWNING LAND, HELPING WORK THROUGH THE TRANSACTIONS THAT ARE REALLY AUTHORIZED BY COUNCIL AND CRC ANYWAY IS THE KIND OF CLOSE KNIT PURPOSE THAT THE MIDTOWN CDC IS USED FOR HERE. BECAUSE IT IS SUCH A CLOSE KNIT PURPOSE, I APPOINT ALL THREE DIRECTORS, BOARD MEMBERS, BUT I REALLY I TAKE GUIDANCE FROM CITY LEADERSHIP AND DON'T MAKE THOSE APPOINTMENTS IN A VACUUM. CASH BALANCE ON HAND AS OF NOW IS $1.2 MILLION.
>> QUESTION, DIRECTOR, SO MONAN SQUARE WAS PURCHASED FOR $15
MILLION BY THE CITY? . >> YES.
>> SO WHY WASN'T THE $3.5 MILLION FOR THE SALE APPLIED TO DEBT REDUCTION OF THAT $15 MILLION?
>> WHILE THIS QUESTION IS PROBABLY OUTSIDE OF THE SCOPE F OF THIS COMMITTEE E, THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION IS THE MONEY FOR LAND ACQUISITION FROM THIS CAME FROM TIFF FUNDS FOR A TIFF BOND THAT COUNCIL AUTHORIZED. THEN COUNCIL AUTHORIZED THE PURCHASE OF THIS SPECIFIC PROPERTY. SO THE DEATH DEBT OF THE PROPERTY IS BEING HANDLED BY TIFF REGARDLESS OF WHAT IS HAPPENING ON THE SITE OR WHATEVER MONEY IS USED FOR PURCHASE ON THE SITE. IT IS THE MISSION OF THE REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION AND THE ENTITIES THAT HELP IT TO CONTINUE REDEVELOPMENT. THAT'S WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE. AS SOON AS IT RECEIVES SOME MONEY FROM THE SALE OF MONAN SQUARE LAND, IT USED THE MONEY FOR THE PURCHASE OF THE NEXT PARCEL AS PART OF A PROJECT ON PRESIDDIUM THREE THAT CITY COUNCIL AUTHORIZED. BUT TO YOUR SPECIFIC QUESTION OF WHY IT WAS NOT USED FOR SOME OTHER PURPOSE, I THINK THAT IS AGAIN AN EXECUTIVE LEVEL DECISION. SO I HOPE THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION.
>> MAYBE A QUESTION FOR YOU, CONTEXTIALLY, YOU WERE ON THE CITY COUNCIL PREVIOUSLY AND SAW SOME O OF THE DEALS MOVE THROUGH. I'M WONDERING IF THERE IS A NOTIFICATION PROCESS THERE, SOMETHING THAT MIGHT HAVE DONE OFFICIAL FOR SOMETHING YOU SAW HAPPEN WHERE AS THINGS COME FORWARD THAT MIGHT BE WORTH WHILE FOR US TO THINK ABOUT AS BEST PRACTICE.
>> I THINK WE ARE GETTING -- I THINK OVER THE COURSE OF MY TERM WHICH HAS BEEN OVER FOR A YEAR AND A HALF, I THINK IT DID IMPROVE. PART OF MY PURPOSE OF BEING ON HERE IS HOW CAN WE
[00:50:03]
RECTIFY SOME OF THE GAPS AND COMMUNICATION THAT WERE DONE WHEN I WAS ON COUNCIL AND HOW CAN WE MAKE THIS BETTER. ONE OF THE QUESTIONSASKED BY THE COMMITTEE, CAN WE SEE A BALANCE SHEET, HOW MUCH GRANTS AS THE RECEIVED FROM RECEPTION. HERE'S THE CURRENT BALANCE SHEET WHICH IS THE CASH ON HAND AND THE EXCESS VALUE THAT THE CDC CURRENTLY OWNS. IT HAS NO EMPLOYEES AND THERE IS A SUMMARY OF THE GRANTS IT RECEIVED SO FAR. ALL TO CARRY OUT BREVIOUS MISSIONS, DIRECTIVES THAT WERE VOTED ON. OKAY. NOW I WILL JUMP OVER TOTHE OTHER ENTITY WHICH IS THE CARMEL CITY CENTER COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT CENTER. THE 4C DRGS DC. IT STARTED OUT AT PERFORMING ARTS CONSTRUCTION BUT ASTHIS POINT THE MISSION IS SPECIFIC AND PRETTY CERTAIN. IT OWNS A PORTION OF THE JAMES BUILDING WHICH IS PICTURED AT THE BOTTOM.THAT IS WHAT WE CALL THE OFFICE SPAKE BETWEEN THE TASHG TON AND THEATER. IT OWNS THAT, RECEIVES RENTS, PAYS ON A MORTGAGE ON THE BUILDING AND THE REMAINING RENTS IT USES TO SUBSIDIZE ART COMBALRIES, THREE ART GALLERIES AND NO LABELS AT THE TABLE WHICH DOES HAVE ART IN IT BUT IT IS -- I HOPE EVERYONE HAS A CHANCE TO VISIT THERE, THEY PROVIDE JOBS TO MEMBERS OF OUR COMMUNITY WITH AUTISM AND OTHER DISABILITIES AND THEY DO HAVE PAINTINGS HANGING UP. WE WILL COUNT THAT AS AN ART GALLERY. BUT 4CDC USES THE REMAINING REVENUE TO HELP SUBSIDIZE THE GALLERIES IN THE ARTS AND DESIGN DISTRICTS. THAT HAS BEEN THE LONGTERM MISSION. I THINK THE THOUGHT WAS IF THE MAIN STREET IS FILLED WITH STARBUCKS AND PANERAS, IT DOESN'T MAKE IT UNIQUE. WE HAVE AN ARTS AND DESIGN DISTRICT, THERE SHOULD BE SOME ART THERE.
ONE OF THE REASONS I LIKE THE PICTURE ON THE RIGHT, YOU SEE NO LABELS AT THE TABLE AND THEN ART ON MAIN AND THEN GALLERY AND GIFTS. THOSE ARE ART GALLERIES THAT ARE HELPED IN PART BY THE 4CDC TO MAKE THE ARTS AND DESIGN DISTRICT A UNIQUE DESTINATION.
THAT'S WHAT THIS ENTITY DOES TODAY. OKAY. SO IT IS FINANCIAL OVER VIEW IS SLIGHTLY MORE EXPANSIVE IF YOU WILL. IT IS RECEIVING RENT FROM JAMES BUILDING, PAYING DEBT SERVICE ON THE MORTGAGE, PAYING ENERGY CENTER PAYMENTS, THAT IS HEATING AND COOLING. THAT'S ITS SHARE OF THE HEATING AND COOLING WHICH ALSO PROVIDES HEATING AND COOLING TO THE PALLADIUM. YOU SEE IN 2023, MAKING ITS ART GALLERY GRANTS. THAT'S THE ACTIVITY FOR 2023. 2024, SOMETHING VERY SIMILAR. IT IS RECEIVING RENTS, THERE IT IS, RECEIVING THAT GRANT FROM THE CMCDC TO HELP WITH T.I. NUMBERS. CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS AND BROKERAGE FEES TO PUT A NEW TEPPANT IN THE BUILDING. THERE IS DEBT SERVICE AGAIN. THERE IS HEATING AND COOLING PAYMENTS AGAIN. THERE IS YOUR ART GALLERY GRANT. SAME WITH 2025. PRETTY SIMILAR STUFF. RECEIVING RENT FROM THE JAMES BUILDING, MAKING MORTGAGE PAYMENT. IT IS THANKS TO OUR INCESTANCE NOW SETTING ASIDE MONEY FOR FUTURE CAPITAL EXPENSE. WHEN IT IS TIME TO FIX THE ROOF ON THE BUILDING, THERE IT IS MAKING HEATING AND COOLING PAYMENTS AND ART GALLERY GRANTS. WHAT THE 4CDC DOES NOW IS ATECTOMY AND LOCKED IN THING. HERE IT IS. THEIR BALANCE SHEET, FUN BALANCES. IT HAS RECEIVED ABOUT $4 MILLION FROM THE CRC SINCE ITS INCEPTION AND HAS NO EMPLOYEES. IF I COULD HANDLE THE ATTORNEY'S QUESTION. DOES THE 4CDC NEED ITS OWN SEPARATE ATTORNEYS? I THINK MULTIPLE THINGS ARE TRUE. A, IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO HAVE ITS OWN SEPARATE ATTORNEYS. B, CROW GUARDOUS HAVE BEEN INCREDIBLE ATTORNEYS AND THEIR INSTITUTIONAL KNOWLEDGE IS INCREDIBLY VALUABLE. YOU CAN
[00:55:01]
ALSO SEE THAT WHILE MIDTOWN CDC ACTIVITIES ARE ALMOST PERFECTLY IN LINE WITH CRC ACTIVITIES WHERE ONE ATTORNEY IS LITERALLY DRAFTING THE DOCUMENTS TO TAKE TITLE TO A BUILDING AND THEN TRANSFERRING THE TITLE TO THAT SAME BUILDING TO THE MIDTOWN CDC. HAVING TWO ATTORNEYS REVIEW BASIC REAL ESTATE TRANSACTIONAL DOCUMENTS IS OVER KILL. AT THE 4CDC LEVEL, THEY ARE DEALING WITH TRUE MARKET RATE LEASES, THE COMMERCIAL LEASES FOR THE JAMES BUILDING ARE TRUE MARKET RATE LEASES AND THEY ARE DEALING WITH SOME OF THE DETAILED LEASING ON MAIN STREET. THAT'S NOT THE SAME KIND OF OVER LAP AS WITH CRC ATTORNEY. THEIR EXPERT EASE IS INVALUABLE BUT AGAIN, I'M IN THE ROOM FOR EVERY CONVERSATION AND I'M ON EVERY EMAIL. SO I THINK BASED ON THAT, IT IS PRETTY CLEAR TO SEE WHILE THESE CDCS DO NOT NEED THEIR OWN ATTORNEY, IT WOULD MAKE SENSE WHY THE 4CDC HAS ITS OWN ATTORNEY. AND CORRODER GUARDOUS HAS MY BACKING IN THAT REGARD AND THEIR INSTITUTIONAL KNOWLEDGE IS INVALUABLE, IT MAKES SENSE WHY THE MIDTOWN CDC DOESN'T HAVE ITS OWN ATTORNEY AND THAT'S OKAY TOO. THE OTHER QUESTION YOU ASKED, WHY THE APPOINTMENTS ARE DIFFERENT, I THINK PART OF IT IS A REFLECTION OF WHEN THE 4CDC WAS FIRST BORN WAS IN 2011 AND THAT WAS A COUNCIL APPOINTMENT, MAYOR APPOINTMENT CRC APPOINTMENT, THAT MAKES SENSE. IT WAS START THIS WHOLE NEW THING. AT THIS POINT, THAT'S NOT -- I GET IT. IT'S OKAY. MIDTOWN CDC WAS FORMED MUCH RECENTLY TO HAVE A MUCH TIGHTER PURPOSE THAT ALIGNS PERFECTLY WITH THE CRC. I APPOINT THE THREE MEMBERS. OF COURSE I'M NOT DOING THAT BY MYSELF. THAT IS ALWAYS WITH GUIDANCE OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH. HOW WAS THAT? THAT KIND OF IN MY MIND IS PUTTING A LITTLE CONTEXT TO WHAT THESE TWO ENTITIES DO . YOU CAN SEE HOW SIMILAR THEY ARE AND THEY ARE ULTIMATELY CARRYING OUT THE WILL OF THE CRC OR COUNCIL OR THE EXECUTIVE BUT ONE IS A BIT MORE CLOSELY ALIGNED AND ONE HAS A BIT OF ITS OWN PURPOSE, EVEN THOUGH CRC STAFF ARE IN EVERY CONVERSATION EITHER WAY. BASED ON THOSE CONTEXTUAL NUANCES, THAT HELPS ANSWER WHY THE DIFFERENT ATTORNEYS AND WHYDIFFERENT APPOINTMENTS. >> QUESTION AS WE LOOK AT THIS AND ONE OF THE THIPGS WE TALKED ABOUT LAST TIME WAS THE PURPOSE OF THE NONPROFIT AFFILIATES IS TO TAKE IN REVENUE OR HAVE REVENUE IN A DIFFERENT STRUCTURE THAT CAN BE USED. THESE RELIT TO THINGS THAT ARE APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL THAT ARE APPROVED THROUGH. I'M THIPGING OF CHECKS AND BALANCES AND THE ABILITY TO MAKE SURE WE ARE NOT CREATING STRUCTURES IN WHICH MONEY IS FUNGIBLE IN A WAY THAT IT TAKES AWAY FROM THE MISSION OF ONE OR THE OTHER. WHEN YOU GET ENOUGH UH-UH FILLIATES, WITHOUT SEPARATION OF ENTITIES, ARE THERE ISSUES? I'M WONDERING FROM A CONTROL STANDPOINT, HOW DO YOU MITIGATE THAT AND IS IT JUST EXECUTIVE BRANCH OVER SIGHT OR IS THERE ANOTHER STEP IF THERE IS A TRAPSITION OF FUNDS BETWEEN ENTITIES TO 4CDC TO MIDTOWN, THERE IS CHECK AND BALANCES THERE?
>> I WILL SAY THERE ARE TWO KINDS OF ANSWERS. ONE IS EACH TRANSFER IN ITS OWN RESPECT HAS TO MEET THE OBJECTIVE OF THE ENTITY. SO THE TRANSFER THAT YOU SEE HERE, WE ARE PUTTING A HUGE BRAND NEW TENANT IN THE JAMES BUILDING THAT WAS TAKING UP 20,000 SQUARE FEET. THAT IS A LOT OF T.I. THAT IS A LOT OF BROKER FEES. SO THAT'S A BIG EVENT FOR THE 4CDC SO THEY NEEDED SOME HELP IN THAT LEASING FUNCTION. BUT THEN LEASES THE BUILDING FULLY BUT CREATES THE GRANT TO HELP FUND ITS MISSION.
SO HELPING LEASE UP THE JAMES BUILDING IS BOTH WITHIN THE MISSION O OF THE 4CDC AND WITHIN THE MISSION OF THE CMCDC. I WOULD SAY THAT IS NOT A TRANSACTION THAT SAUSUAL TRANSACTION. THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN VERY MANY TIMES. THE OTHER ANSWER IS I'M IN THE ROOM FOR EVERY ONE OF THE CONVERSATIONS, I REPORT DIRECTLY TO THE MAYOR. SO THIS IS AN EXTEPGZ OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH FUNCTION. THE OTHER THING I WANT TO NOTE IS BECAUSE YOU SAID ONE OF THE THINGS ABOUT DOING THIS IN A 4CDC EXAMPLE IS YOU GET TO SEGREGATE REAL ESTATE. THIS IS A GOOD TIME TO MEPGZ ONE OF THE BENEFITS OF DOING THIS INSIDE
[01:00:07]
THE 4CDC. ITS LEASE INFORMATION IS PRIVATE. IMAGINE IF WE ARE SUBSIDIZING ENTITIES IN THE ARTS AND DESIGN DISTRICT, IT SHOULDN'T BE WHEN THE NEGOTIATIONS ARE HAPPENING THAT ANY ART GALLERY SAYS, LET ME KNOW EVERY LEASE YOU HAVE SO I KNOW YOUR TERMS SO I CAN NEGOTIATE MY BEST TERMS. MIGHT BE GOOD FOR THAT ENTITY BUT NOT FOR THE CITY. THAT'S WHY THIS FUNCTION SITS INSIDE OF A 4CDC SO WE CAN NEGOTIATE THE BEST DEALS AND LEASES. SO SOMEONE CAN'T COME UP AND SAY LET ME SEE ALL OF YOUR LEASES AND SECRET INFORMATION SO I CAN DO THE BEST THING FOR ME. THESE KIND OF REAL ESTATE TRANSACTIONS IS WHAT BELONGS IN THESE CDCS. I KIND OF WANT TO GO BACK TO THE GOVERNANCE ASPECT OF IT. DIRECTOR MENTIONED THAT YOU APPOINT ALL OF THE MEMBERS TO THE -- WHAT DO YOU CALL IT? MIDTOWN CDC. AS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT BEST PRACTICES TOO AND I SAID YOUR REASONING FOR HOW YOU DO THIS FOR CHECKS AND BALANCES, WOULDN'T IT SEEM SOMEWHAT -- JUST SIMPLE QUESTION, WOULD IT SEEM MORE APPROPRIATE TO HAVE A CITY COUNCIL MEMBER ON THIS BOARD OR HAVE THE SAME STRUCTURE AS THE 4CDC? I GUESS YOU HAVE EXPLAINED IT WELL I'M AN EXECUTIVE BRANCH GUY SO I APPRECIATE THE APPOINTMENTS BUT I'M HAPPY TO DO WHATEVER THECOMMITTEE SUGGESTS. >> THANK YOU.
>> GO AHEAD. >> SO WITH REGARDS TO THE APPOINTMENTS, THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING TO LOOK AT AND KIND OF A RECOMMENDATION LIST. ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IS YOU CAN GET GROUP THINK IF YOU HAVE ONE PERSON APPOINTING ALL PEOPLE GOING IN THE SAME DIRECTION. IT IS BETTER I THINK TO HAVE MORE DIVERSITY OF OPINIONS WHICH COULD BE THROUGH DIFFERENT APPOINTMENTS. I HAD A SPECIFIC QUESTION DIRECTOR ABOUT THE MANAGEMENT, DAY TO DAY MANAGEMENT O OF THE BUILDING. IS THERE A LEASING COMPANY THAT OPERATES IT OR IS THIS IS DONE BY DIRECTORS? WHO RUNS THE LEASING AND OPERATIONS MANAGING?
>> YEAH, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. THE JAMES BUILDING HAS MULTIPLE TENANTS INCLUDING PRIVATE COMPANIES THAT ARE LEASES OF THE 4CDC. IT ALSO HAS THE THEATER AND CIVIC THEATER.
SO THERE ARE SHARED COMMON AREA CHARGES. THERE IS A COMPANY CALLED R.E.I., WELL KNOWN COMPANY THAT DOES THE MANAGEMENT OF THE BUILDING AND THEN FOR THEIR MANAGEMENT OF THE BUILDING, THEY BILL THE ENTITIES RESPONSIBLE. THE CITY BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR THE TWO THEATERS, THE 4CDC BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS SQUARE FOOTAGE. BY THE WAY, THERE IS A 5,000 SQUARE FEET OWNERSHIP OF THE JAMES BUILDING THAT THE CRC OWNS THAT IT LEASES TO STAFF OF THE CIVIC THEATER AT REDUCED RATES. THAT'S HOW THE BUILDING IS MANAGED. IF THE QUESTION IS HOW IS IT LEASED, IT IS LEASED LIKE ANY OTHER COMMERCIAL BUILDING WOULD LEASE IT. LAST TIME WE DID MAJOR LEASES, COLLIER REPRESENTED THE 4CDC, FOUND THE TENANTS, IT WAS A MARKET LEASE THE WAY YOU WOULD USE COMMERCIAL BROKERS NORMALLY.
THEY GOT PAID COMMISSIONS AND NOW THERE ARE MARKET RATE LEASES IN THE JAMES BUILDING. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE LEASING AND DAY TO DAY MANAGEMENT.
>> THAT'S WHAT I EXPECTED. AND THAT'S WHAT I WOULD WANT. THESE ARE THREE VOLUNTEER MEMBERS WOULDN'T HAVE THE ABILITY OR THE BACKGROUND TO BE ABLE TO NEGOTIATE THOSE LEASES AND DO ALL OF THE OPERATIONS, ET CETERA.
>> I WILL SAY THAT SEARSY STAFF IS IN THE CONVERSATION FOR LEASE NEGOTIATIONS. NOTHING HAPPENS WITHOUT CRC STAFF INVOLVEMENT.
>> REVENUE QUESTION. ON THE TWO CHARTS THAT WE HAVE, ONE IS CR CROSS-EXAMINATION GRANT AS REVENUE AND THE OTHER IS SALE OF LAND. I'M WONDERING, TRYING TO GET TO THE HEART OF HOW --.
>> I WANT TO SAY WE WENT AND PICKED A NUMBER ABOVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT. THE MIDTOWN CDC ALSO HAS RENT IT RECEIVES FROM THE BUILDING THAT HAS THE FARMERS MARG T IN IT, ALSO HAS LASER FLASH IN IT, ON TIME CARMEL BUSINESS. IT WAS BOUGHT SUBJECT TO THE LASER FLASH LEASE. THAT COMES IN AS REVENUES AND RENT
[01:05:01]
BUT IT IS SO MINOR WE DIDN'T LIST IT. FULL DISCLOSURE.>> OKAY. BACK TO DOCTOR HANNON'S QUESTION ABOUT REPORTING, I KNOW THAT CRC GETS PULLED IN AND WE DO A FULL FINANCIAL REVIEW THERE. ARE THESE INCLUDED ELEMENTS OF
AUDITS AND PROCESS FOR CRC? >> YES. WHEN THE SBOA REVIEWS THE CITY'S FINANCIALS AND DOES AUDITS, BOTH OF THE ENTITIES ARE SEEN AS CITY ENTITIES. THEY GET FULLY AUDITED AS PART OF THE
CITY'S AUDIT. >> I JUST WANTED TO REINFORCE THAT'S AN IMPORTANT POINT AND THAT'S ONE REASON IT DOESN'T NEED A FINANCIAL CONSULTANT. I ASKED IF THAT WAS INCLUDED IN THE CITY'S AUDIT. SO YOU HAVE OUTSIDE INDEPENDENT EYES ON IT.
>> BUT AGAIN, THE CRC STAFF HAVE ME, MOY BACKGROUND IS IN LAW AND WE HAVE A FINANCE DIRECTOR MIKE LEE WHO IS VERY STRONG. SO WE ARE INVOLVED IN ALL OF THESE. NOW FOR THE 4CDC, THEY HAVE THEIR OWN ACCOUNTANTS. WE WATCH OVER THAT BUT BECAUSE OF THE MORE MARKET RATE LEASES, IT MAKES TOTAL SENSE THAT THEY HAVE THESE OUTSIDE ACCOUNTANTS. MIDTOWN CDC RECEIVING $1,000 A MONTH FROM THE CARMEL FARMERS MARKET, WE HANDLE THAT INTERNALLY. AS FAR AS DAY TO DAY KIND OF BOOKS, TAX STUFF, EVERYTHING GETS FARMED OUT TO CPAS. SO CON ROD DOES THE ACCOUNTING AND BARNES DOES THE CORPORATE STUFF FOR THE INTETIES. AND THEN LOG, SUMMER AND HOS, DOES THE KIND OF DAY TO DAY LEGAL STUFF WHEN WE HAVE MEETINGS AND WRITTEN CONSENTENCE. I DO WANT TO ANSWER A QUESTION YOU POSED AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING, IS THERE ANY OTHER 501C4? THERE IS THE HOTEL CAR MICHAEL FUPGZS IN A WAY IN WHICH THERE IS LAND AND ON THE LAND THERE IS THE BUILDING. THE BUILDING IS A PRIVATE BUILDING. THAT'S THE HOTEL CAR MICHAEL ENTITY OWNED BY PET CORPS PRIVATE BUILDING. SOME OF THE REVENUE FROM THE CAR MICHAEL HOTEL GOES TO THE LAND OWNER ON WHICH THE HOTEL SITS AND THAT LAND OWNER IS TWO THIRDS A PRIVATE ENTITY, ONE THIRD A CDC. WHEN WE OFTEN TALK ABOUT THIS IS THE CITY'S HOTEL, WHAT IS THAT MEANS OF CONTROL? IT IS ANOTHER CDC THAT IS A 501C4. IT DOESN'T DO ANYTHING. IT DOESN'T HAVE ANY DAILY ACTIVITIES. BUT IT DOES EXIST AND THAT WAS A 501C4. I WANTED
TO MENTION THAT. >> THEN A QUESTION, OBVIOUSLY THE MISSION EXPANDS A LITTLE. THERE IS A PIECE TO THE ONE THAT ALLOWS IT TO DO THE GRANTS DIRECTLY TO BUSINESSES OR ART PROCESS. I WAS THINKING ABOUT THE ART COMMISSION, AND OTHER ENTITIES, ONE WE DISCUSSED LAST TIME THAT TALKED ABOUT DOING SOMETHING SIMILAR BUT WONDERING FROM A CHECK AND BALANCE CONTROL ELEMENT, HOW DO WE ENSURE THAT WE UNDERSTAND WHAT THOSE GRANTS ARE GOING FOR OR HOW THEY ARE GOING? THE CONCEPT OF THE PRIVATE DOCUMENTS FOR LEASE NEGOTIATION MATTERS. THERE ARE MULTIPLE ANSWERS TO THAT. FIRST, STAFF ARE IN THE ROOM FOR EVERY CONVERSATION. I'M APPOINTED BY THE MAYOR. I'M RESPONSIBLE TO THE MAYOR, RESPONSIBLE TO WEBER. THERE IS NOT SECRET MEETINGS EVERY GOING ON. NUMBER TWO, THESE AREN'T LIKE THE ART GRANT FOR EXAMPLE IS A ONE TIME MANUAL GRANT. YOU QUALIFY, YOU MAKE YOUR GRANT, THAT'S THAT. THESE ARE ONGOING LEASES. ONE OF THE RELATIONSHIPS IS A GRANT THAT IS ESSENTIALLY A MONTHLY GRANT TO HELP WITH THE LEASE THEY HAVE. THREE OF THE LEASES, THE 4CDC HOLDS THE LEASE AND SUBLETS TO THE ENTITIES, THEREBY HELPING SUBSIDIZE A PORTION OF THE RENT. THAT'S AN ONGOING RELATIONSHIP.
IT'S NOT A ONE TIME GRANT. IT'S A LANDLORD TENANT AND A LANDLORD SUBTENANT, ONGOING RELATIONSHIP. SO WE KNOW THE LANDLORDS. WE HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS. WHEN YOU NEED TO REPLACE AC. THAT'S A BOARD MEETING CONVERSATION. IT'S A BIT MORE INVOLVED THAN ONE TIME GRANTS. I HOPE THAT HELPS ANSWER
THAT. >> CLARIFYING QUESTION, LOOKING AT CDC GLOBALLY, IS THAT A GENERAL USE? ARE THERE OTHER
CDCS IN INDIANAPOLIS THAT USE THEM THE SAME WAY? . Ú>> YEAH.
HAVE A SOPHISTICATED CITY, THIS IS TOTALLY NORMAL STUFF. IN
[01:10:01]
INDIANAPOLIS, A BUNCH OF GARAGES ARE OWNED BY CDC. IT'S NORMAL.SO AGAIN, I DON'T HAVE ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS. JUST REALLY A COMMENT TO MY FELLOW BOARD MEMBERS AND A BIT OF A CAUTIONARY TALE. 4CDC HAS BEEN ON MY RADAR FOR A WHILE RGS EVEN BEFORE I WAS ON COUNCIL. ONE OF THE INTERESTING IRONIES IS DAN MCFEELY WAS INVOLVED IN A LOT OF THESE THINGS. HE WORKED FOR THE STAR RGS INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, AND WROTE A FAIRLY IN DEPTH ARTICLE ON 4CDC IN MAYBE 2015 OR 2016. THE TWO THINGS HE BROUGHT UP AS I RECALL IS ONE IT HAS BEEN TALKED ABOUT A LITTLE BIT THAT THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A SOCIAL WELFARE ORGANIZATION. AND I THINK THAT IS PARTIALLY EXPLAINED. THERE ARE FLAVORS .
THEY ARE USUALLY SET UP IN GROUND FIELD AREAS TO HELP UNDERDEVELOPMENT OR DISADVANTAGED BUSINESSES AND BUILDINGS. THIS REALLY ISN'T THAT. IT IS MORE SET UP TO SUPPORT DEVELOPERS. THE OTHER PIECE ABOUT THAT THAT I THOUGHT WAS INTERESTING IS HOW IT BECAME A WAY TO WASH FUNDS BECAUSE WHEN FUNDS GO TO CRC FROM TIFF, THEY ARE VERY REASONABLY REGULATED.
THEY HAVE TO BE USED OR PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE IN TIFF OR TIFF ADJACENT AREAS. I WILL GO TO MY DEATH BED SAYING PUBLIC ART T IS NOT PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE, BUT THAT IS NOT OUR CONVERSATION.
BUT GIVING A GRANT TO 4CDC, THE USE IS POTENTIALLY QUITE A BIT BROADER IFFIA LOOK AT THE SOCIAL CONSTRUCT T. I THOUGHT IT WAS INTERESTING HE WROTE THAT ARTICLE. BASED UPON THAT, THAT'S NUMBER ONE. BECAUSE I WILL GET TO NUMBER TWO.
>> CAN I ANSWER THAT? THAT WAS THREE DIFFERENT THOUGHTS.
>> WE ARE NOT IN Q AND A. >>IA MADE AN ACIVATION THAT WAS
NOT TRUE. >> I'M DESCRIBING AN ARTICLE BY DAN FEELY. THIS IS NOT ANTAGONISTIC. I'M TALKING TO MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS HERE. I THOUGHT THAT WAS INTERESTING.
THE SECOND THING IS WHILE I WAS ON COUNCIL, THERE WAS A SECRET REAL ESTATE TRANSACTION. THE HOTEL CARMICHAEL WENT $18 MILLION OVER BUDGET AND THAT WAS CONCEALED TO MOST OF THE COUNCIL AND PUBLIC FOR ALMOST A YEAR. ONE OF THE THIPGS THAT HAPPENED THAT CAME OUT IN THE HOTEL CARMICHAEL REPORT THAT WAS PUT TOGETHER BY MAYOR FINKMAN WHEN SHE WAS COUNSELOR WAS THE BACK FLIPS THAT WERE DONE TO RAISE $18 MILLION TO COVER THAT. CDC REMORTGAGED THE JAMES BUILDING. COUNCIL WAS NOT NOTIFIED. AND COUNCIL DIDN'T HAVE TO APPROVE IT. SO BASED UPON AGAIN, SOMEWHAT AN ECDOTAL INFORMATION, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK COULD BE APPLIED TO ALL AFFILIATES THAT I THINK NEED TO BE DONE, THERE NEEDS TO BE STANDARDIZED REPORTING TO COUNCIL FOR THE AFFILIATES. THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME SORT OF TRIGGERS THAT ARE REASONABLY COMMON SENSE FOR NOTIFICATION OR APPROVAL BY COUNCIL AS WELL TO PREVENT T SOMETHING LIKE THAT HAPPENING AGAIN. AGAIN, REMORTGAGING A PROPERTY AND NOT NOTIFYING COUNCIL I THINK WAS EGREGIOUS. I MAYBE ALONE IN THAT. I THINK THERE DOES NEED TO BE SOME MODICUM OF OVER SOIKT OF THE USE OF FUNDS 4CDC. AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT IS TAXPAYER FUNDS. WHETHER IT IS TIFF DOLLARS OR REVENUE GENERATED BY A CITY OWNED BUILDING, THESE ARE TAXPAYER FUNDS. EVERYTHING MAY BE 100% ABOVE BOARD IN TERMS OF HOW THEY ARE NEGOTIATING LEASES, GRANTING LEASES, ET CETERA, BUT THERE IS AT LOHSE THE POTENTIAL FOR UNINTENTIONAL POTENTIAL -- LET ME SAY THE NOT MOST EFFICIENT WAY OF DOING THINGS. AND WE KNEW ON COUNSEL EVERYTHING WAS RUNNING SMOOTHLY. WHEN WE DID A DEEP DIVE, IT WAS NOT. ALL I'M SAYING IS THAT WITH REGARDS TO 4CDC AND MAYBE SOME EXTENT FOR MIDTOWN CDC, THERE NEEDS TO BE A MODICUM OF
[01:15:04]
OVER SIGHT OR AWARENESS OF THE USE OF FUNDS BECAUSE THEY ARE TAXPAYER FUNDS NO MATTER HOW YOU SLICE IT. I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE IN PLACE CONFLICT OF INTEREST POLICIES AND PROCEDURES. IN ALL OF THE AFFILIATE ORGANIZATIONS. AND AS SOMEONE WOO SPENT YEARS ON AUDIT COMMITTEES. IT IS NOT JUST DECLARING CONFLICT OF INTEREST BUT RESOLVING CONFLICT OF INTEREST. WE TALKED ABOUT STANDARDIZED REPORTING. I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME REQUIREMENT FOR COUNCIL NOTIFICATION. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS DONE, I DON'T KNOW IF MAYOR FINKMAN RECALLS WHEN I WAS ON COUNCIL OR PRIOR TO BEING ON COUNCIL, THERE WAS A REQUIREMENT FOR CRC TO COME TO COUNCIL FOR ANY FUND ABOVE $50,000. DO YOU RECALL THAT? MAYBE IT WAS A LAND SALE FOR ABOVE $50,000. BUT I'M GOING TO SUGGEST THAT THERE DOES NEED TO BE OR I WOULD SUGGEST THAT WE HAVE SOME SORT OF TRIGGER FOR COUNCIL NOTIFICATION OF CERTAIN ACTIVITIES. ALL OF THAT IS MEANT TO BE PROACTIVE.COUNCIL IS NOT SURPRISED. PUBLIC IS NOT SURPRISD BY ACTIONS THAT MAY NOT BE IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE PUBLIC.
>> APPRECIATE THE CONTEXT. WE ÚSTARTED THE CONVERSATION TONIGT RGS THE CONCEPT OF THE BEST PRACTICES APPLY TO CITY OPERATIONS. WHAT WE ARE LOOKING AT ARE GAPS IN THE ADMINISTRATION, THINGS WE CAN KNOW ABOUT THAT DON'T NECESSARILY TRIGGER BEHAVIOR THAT IS NEFARIOUS BUT OPENS THE FOR THINGS TO HAPPEN. SO ALL OF THE CONTEXT SET UP IN PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION, MOVING TO TRANSITION OF SOMETHING WE HAVE NOT HAD TO ADDRESS BEFORE. THIS HIGHLIGHTS THE ARTICLES OF 2015 AND 2016, BEING THEN ADDRESSED BY THE STRUCTURES THAT ARE NOW IN PLACE TO ENSURE THOSE THINGS CAN'T HAPPEN AGAIN. THEY STILL HAVE SOME NEEDS TO GET REPORTED UP OR THROUGH OR BACK TO COUNCIL IN A SPECIFIC WAY. I THINK IT MAKES SENSE TO MOVE ON FROM WHERE WE ARE WITH THESE. IF THERE IS FOLLOW UP, PLEASE SEND WRITTEN FEEDBACK TO THE COMMITTEE. ONE OF THE REASONS WE HAD CITY STAFF KIND OF JOIN THIS IS AGAIN, THE IDEA OF THE PRESENT TATIONS WE HAVE RECEIVED SO FAR BEING THE STORY OF THE CITY'S RELATIONSHIP TO THESE FOUR AFFILIATES. THE FIRST INITIAL DISCUSSIONS WE WERE HAVING IS THAT. SO I MAKE THE CALL AGAIN TO THE PUBLIC AND TO EVERYONE, IF YOU HAVE THOUGHTS, FEEDBACK, CONCERNS, PLEASE SUBMIT IT. WE HAVE RECEIVED A LOT OF FEEDBACK AND I CAN GUARANTEE THAT ALL OF IT IS BEING PUT INTO THE REVIEW PACKETS AND REVIEW THINGS WE ARE LOOKING AT AS WE ARE MAKING OUR RECOMMENDATIONS. I STARTED THE CONVERSATION SAYING LET'S FIGURE OUT WHAT WE NEED TO DO NEXT MOVING FORWARD. THIS IS KIND OF THE END OF THE FIRST DISCUSSION OF THE FOUR. THIS WAS THE INTENDED PURPOSE OF GETTING THE STORY OF THE FIRST FOUR AFFILIATES, VERY DIFFERENT IN THEIR NATURE, HAVING SOME SIMILARITIES, SOME TIES TO GOVERNMENT. FOR ME, ONE UNDERLYING THREAT IS THAT THERE IS A LOT OF EXECUTIVE BRANCH INDIVIDUALIZED CONTROL FOR ALL FOUR. WE HAVE SEEN IT MANIFEST IN A FEW WAYS. THE FIRST WITH PROMOTE CARMEL WHERE IT WAS USED FOR SPECIFIC PURPOSES TO HELP SUPPORT THE MARKETING EFFORTS OF THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION.
WITHOUT POTENTIALY OVER SIGHT THAT WOULD HAVE SHIFTED THAT.
THE SECOND, WE SAW A TRANSITION PROCESS THAT CHANGED THE NATURE OF SOMETHING TO THE POINT THAT THINGS ARE MOVING AND SHIFTING SO QUICKLY THAT THERE IS NO CONTROL OR STRUCTURE OF WHAT IS LEFT OUTSIDE OF WHAT IS HAPPENING PRESENTLY TODAY. THESE TWO THAT WE TALKED ABOUT TONIGHT ARE TRULY TIED SO CLOSELY TO THE MISSION OF THE CRC, WHICH IS ALSO SOMETHING WE TALK ABOUT A LOT AS A COUNCIL, I'M GOING TO TRY TO ENSURE THERE IS CHECK AND BALANCE ON THEIR BEHAVIOR BY ENFORCING DISCUSSION RGS UNDERSTANDING, MOVEMENT THERE. THERE IS A DIFFERENT KIND O RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THOSE. ALL OF THOSE SHOW THE THIPGS THAT MAY OCCUR IF THERE IS NOT THE RIGHT OVER SIGHT OR THE RIGHT GOVERNMENTAL SYSTEMS THERE. SO REALLY AGAIN, THE INTENT OF THIS REVIEW COMMITTEE IS TO PULL AS MUCH INFORMATION AS WE CAN TO FISH THE WAY THAT WE ARE MANAGING, MITIGATING , PREVIOUS COUNCIL MEMBERS IN THE FUTURE, WE CAN SAY WE DID WHAT WE NEEDED TO DO TO MAKE SURE THE GOVERNMENT IS RUNNING APPROPRIATE LE. THAT BEING SAID, I WANT TO GO BACK TO THE
[01:20:03]
BEGINNING AND OPEN THE FLOOR FOR WHAT DO WE WANT TO DO FOR NEXT STEPS? OBVIOUSLY WE FINISHED THE KIND OF FIRST RUN. WE HAD A GOOD DISCUSSION O OF THE LIST AND GOING THROUGH THAT. , WE HAVE THROUGHOUT A LOT OF QUESTIONS. WE HAD FOR CITY LEGAL, JUST DOCUMENTATION OF THE CITY SIDE OF OUR FINANCIAL RECORDS AND A COUPLE OF THINGS TONIGHT WE HEARD, LEASE AGREEMENTS FOR UNDERMARKET RATE, THE TREATING OF PEOPLE THE SAME . IF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TRACKING LABOR, TRACKING DONATIONS OF INKIND TO OTHERS, I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW IF WE ARE DOING THAT AND IF THERE IS A WAY FOR CITY STAFF TO START PULLING FOR WAYS TOD THAT EFFICIENTLY. I DON'T KNOW THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ELEMENT BUT IT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ELEMENT FOR THE CONVERSATION WE HAD LAST WEEK IN TRIGGERING THE RELATIONSHIP CHANGES THAT ARE THERE. I WOULD LOVE FOR US TO PULL MORE INFORMATION NOT PULLING OUT LINE ITEMS THAT DON'T MATTER BUT THE WHOLE PICTURE FROM THE CITY PERSPECTIVE ON WHAT WE ARE BUILDING. SECOND THING IS WE ARE LOOKING AT THIS LIST. IT NEEDS TO BE COMPREHENSIVE. I WOULD LOVE CITY LEGAL AND CITY LEGAL ALONE TO GO THROUGH , FIND OUT WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE. FIND THE GRANT AGREEMENT. NOT TO DO A DEEP DIVE INTO EACH ONE AND WHETHER THEY ARE RIGHT OR WRONG BUT TO SEE HOW THEY ARE SHAPING THE RELATIONSHIP, HOW THEY HAVE BEEN SHAPED OVER TIME AND HOW WE CAN SHAPE THEM BETTER MOVING FORWARD. THE THIRD SIDE OF THIS FOR ME, WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT THE RELATIONSHIP TO THE BODY THAT ARE PUT IN PLACE TO CONTROL FOR THE GOVERNMENT, FOR THE CITY, THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH, CITY COUNCILLORS, EVERYONE TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY ALIGN WITH THE MISSION OF THIPG. ALL WE TALKED ABOUT SO FAR WERE STOOD UP BY THE CITY, BY PARTNERS WITH PEOPLE WHO CARED ABOUT THE MISSION OF THE ENTERPRISE. THE TWO TONIGHT ARE MORE PROCEDURAL AND TIED TO THE MISSION OF THE BUILD OUT OF THE CITY AS A WHOLE. BUT WHEN WE MAKE WHOLE SALE CHANGES TO WHERE THE MISSION IS ALIGNED TO THE NEED OF THE COMMUNITY OR BUY IN FROM THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE PAST, AND THEN THERE IS HEART AND SOUL AND BELIEF IN SOMETHING MATTERING FOR THE CITY, THAT WE DON'T GET STUCK IN A MINUTIA WHERE THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THINGS TO BE CHANGED SO DRAMATIC THAT THINGS BLOW UP INSTANTANEOUSLY. AND SOMETHING WE HAVE NEVER FACED BEFORE. I WANT TO SAY RATIONALLY AND AS BEST IT CAN, I KNOW WE ARE GOING THROUGH NEW THINGS FOR THE FIRST TIME AND TRYING TO FIGURE THEM OUT. THE END RESULT IS A BETTER MORE EFFICIENT GOVERNMENT, AND A BETTER MORE EFFICIENT GOVERNMENT THAT CARES ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT IT IS REPRESENTING BY GIVING THEM THE RIGHT PATHWAYS, THE RIGHT RUNWAYS, THE RIGHT EXAMPLES OF HOW TO PERFORM THEIR FUNCTIONS SO THAT THINGS DON'T FALL APART WHEN WE GET MAD, SO WE DON'T CREATE NIGHTS TO CREATE FIGHTS SO THINGS THAT MATTER TO THE CITY CAN BE OPENLY DISCUSSED TRANSPARENTALLY WITH ALL OF THE PARTIES THAT MATTER AND IF IT IS AN APPROPRIATE MATTER OF MONEY FOR PEOPLE TO DO SERVICES FOR A MARKET OR IF IT IS A LEASE TO MAKE SURE COOL ART IS IN THE ARTS DISTRICT THAT WE KNOW THIPGS ARE HAPPENING AND THEY ARE IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE CITY AND WE ARE GOOD TO GO AS OPPOSED TO PULLING TOORT AN AFFILIATE REVIEW COMMITTEE TO TALK TO THEM. I WANT TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE NEXT STEPS ARE. I WANT TO SEE WHAT WE NEED TO DO AS A COMMITTEE. PLEASE CONTINUE SENDING INFORMATION. IT DOESN'T T END WITH THE COMMITTEE. IT DOESN'T END WITH TODAY. I THINK WE WILL HAVE TO HAVE AT LEAST ONE MORE MEETING, LIKELY MORE DEPENDING ON WHERE THIS GOES. I THINK RECOMMENDATIONS CAN START AS SOON AS WE START TO SEE THE GAPS AND NEED TO START RECIFYING SITUATIONS. BUT I WOULD LOVE INPUT ON THE REST OF THE COMMITTEE. IF WE WANT TO ADDRESS[01:25:06]
WHAT THE MAYOR BROUGHT UP AT THE BEGINNING OR PULL THE DATA. I THINK I WANT TO REITERATE THAT THE CITY SHOULD PULL THE DATA AND MAKE THAT AS TRANSPARENT AS WE CAN. THEN WE CAN START TO SEE WHAT WE NEED TO DO TO MAKE THE CHECKS AND BALANCE CHANGES THAT WE NEED. THEN I DO THINK WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO ADDRESS THE CONCEPT OF THIS BEING A ONE SIDED BOWL OF INFORMATION TO DATE. AS CHAIR OF THIS COMMITTEE, I NEVER SAW THIS AS THE END OF THE CONVERSATION. I SAW IT AS A BEGINNING IN AN ATTEMPT AND ABUNDANCE OF TIME, KNOWING DR. HANNON AND I SPEAK A LOT. FIGURED IF WE KEPT IT TO A NARROW SCOPE FOR THE FIRST PRESENTATION TO ALLOW FOR THE CONVERSATION TO BE HAD ABOUT WHAT WE NEED TO DO IT WOULD OPEN THE FLOODGATE FOR MORE INFORMATION SO WOE WOULD HAVE WHAT WE NEED TO ENSURE WHAT WE ARE DOING WILL MATTER, POSITIVELY FOR THE CITY MOVING FORWARD. SO I GUESS AGAIN, BACK TO THE COUNCIL, THE COMMITTEE, ANY THOUGHTS, ANYTHING WE WANT TO ADDRESS? CONFLICT OF INTEREST ISSUES, I THINK WE NEED ANSWERS ON THOSE.>> SURE, I'M HAPPY TO. I DO HAVE FAMILY TIES TO A VENDOR OF
THE CHRIS KINDLE MARKET. >> I'M SO GLAD YOU ASKED ME THAT QUESTION. FIRST OF ALL, I'M A LAWYER AT A LAW FIRM FEDDER DINKER AND I OWE RESPONSIBILITY TO MY CLIENT AND MY CLIENT IS CITY OF CARMEL. I OWE MY ETHICAL DUTIES TO YOU.
THIS FALL, I WILL HAVE PRACTICED FOR 30 YEARS. I TAKE MY ETHICS VERY SERIOUSLY. I STARTED WURGING ON THE AFFILIATE REVIEW PROGRAM IN JANUARY OF 2024. TEN MONTHS BEFORE THERE WAS ANY CONFLICT WHATSOEVER BETWEEN THE PARTIES. I HAVE BEEN WORKING FOR 16 MONTHS. MY JOB, I'M A LAWYER. I'M FROM CARMEL, I LOVE MY COMMUNITY. I LOVE THE CHRIS KINDLE MARKET. I WISH SOMEONE WOULD ASK WHAT I THOUGHT ABOUT IT BECAUSE I GOARVE YEAR AND IT IS IMPORTANT TO ME AND IMPORTANT TO MY FAMILY. UNFORTUNATELY, AS A LAWYER, MY JOB WAS TO REVIEW FOUR AFFILIATES, REPORT WHAT I FOUND AND TO BRING TRANSPARENCY. I THINK I DID THAT TWO WEEKS AGO E. UNFORTUNATELY, PEOPLE DIDN'T LIKE THE REPORT THAT I GAVE.
>> CAN YOU JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION? ARE YOU RELATED TO A FAMILY MEMBER THAT OWNS? YES, MY CLIENT THE CITY. CLIENT CHRIS KINDLE MART IS REPRESENTED BY VICE MILLER. I DO NOT HAVE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST. THROUGH EVERY POINT I WORKED WITH GENERAL COUNSEL TO MAKE SURE WE WERE COMFORTABLE. MY DAUGHTER IS A 24-YEAR-OLD WHO WORKS FULL-TIME AS ADMINISTER. SHE IS MARRIED TO A GRAD OPPORTUNITY WHO IS 24 . HIS FATHER IN LAW AS A HOBBY IS A VENDOR AT THE CHRIS KINDLE MART. HER FATHER IN LAW.
>> SO A HOBBY BUSINESS OWNERSHIP?
>> IT'S A HOBBY. HE'S A PRACTICING SURGEON WHO OWNS MIDWEST FERTILITY. HE IS A DOCTOR. AS A HOBBY, HE HAS A HOME IN MICHIGAN, AS A HOBBY HE IS A PART OWNER IN FRANK AND MUTH CLOCK COMPANY. HE IS A FULL-TIME, WORKING 60 HOURS A WEEK AS A SURGEON. I BELIEVE THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS RIGHT NOW BECAUSE PEOPLE AREN'T HAPPY WITH WHAT I SAID TWO WEEKS
AGO. >> IT'S NOT THAT -- PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT IT BECAUSE THIS PROCESS HAS BEEN ONE SIDED. AND PART OF THAT AGAIN WAS BY DESIGN TO GET THE STORY'S SIDE OF THAT. IT RAISES QUESTIONS AS A WHOLE OF THE INFORMATION WE ARE RECEIVING WHICH IS MY CONCERN AND MY FRUSTRATION WITH ALL OF THIS. AFTER THOSE NEWS STORIES CAME OUT, WE DID NOT RECEIVE FEEDBACK FROM THE CITY ON THOSE. I ASSUME IT IS BECAUSE THEY RAN THE TRAPS AND EVERYTHING WAS CHECKED AND THERE WAS NOTHING THERE. BUT THE CONCEPT OF THAT NOT BEING ADDRESSED IS A MASSIVE PROBLEM. I WONDER IF THAT RELATIONSHIP WAS DISCLOSED ON THE FRONT END WHEN YOU WERE BROUGHT ON BOARD TO DO THE PROCESS WITH THIS VENDOR SPECIFICALLY? I THINK THIS OPENED THE DOOR TO THE CONVERSATION OF WHAT INFORMATION ARE WE RECEIVING? AND AGAIN, I HEAR YOU THAT YOU ARE A CONSTITUENT AND A GREAT -- WE ALL LOVE THE MARKET. WE WOULDN'T BE HERE IF WE DIDN'T LOVE THE MARKET, IF WE DIDN'T
[01:30:04]
LOVE THIS CITY. >> SO A CONFLICT OF INTEREST WOULD OCCUR IF I REPRESENTED CCI. SECOND OF ALL, THERE ARE TWO AREAS WHERE THE CITY AND CCI ARE NEGOTIATING, TWO OF THEM.
ONE IS THE MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING BETWEEN THE TWO PARTIES. SAM CAR CORPORATION COUNCIL HAS NEGOTIATED THAT. ICE MILLER IS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN IN THE MEETINGS OR EMAILS. AND TO BE VERY, VERY HONEST WITH YOU, I HAD TO ASK CORPORATION COUNSEL FOR A COPY EOF THE MOUS THE DAY OF THE MEETING TWO WEEKS AGO BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE THEM.
ADVERSITY WOULD BE ME ENEGOTIATING FOR THE BEST INTEREST OF A FAMILY MEMBER. THE OTHER THING THEY ARE IS OVER THE REIMBURSEMENT AND I HAVE NOT BEEN INVOLVED WITH THAT. .
>> AND TO TAKE IT ONE STEP FURTHER, ARE YOU REPRESENTING THE CITY ON THE RELATIONSHIP TO CHRIS KINDLE MARKET, HELPING THE CITY STAFF SUPPORT THE CITY AND THEN THE SIDE QUESTION TO THAT IS, WHEN IT WAS RECOMMENDED TO CHRIS KINDLE MARKET TO RECEIVE OUTSIDE COUNSEL, WAS THAT DONE TO CREATE A DISTANCE BETWEEN THE CITY LEGAL DEPARTMENT WHICH WAS RETAINING FIGGERY TO REPRESENT IT AND POTENTIAL CONFLICTS? THAT IS THE PERCEPTION OF THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST AND IN GOVERNMENT, PERCEPTION OF CONFLICT IS CONFLICT. I KNOW THERE ARE DIFFERENT STARPDZ STANDARDS. I HATE THIS HAS COME UP. BUT THIS IS IN OUR COMMUNITY, SOMETHING PRESENTLY OCCURRING. FOR EVERYONE IN THE
ROOM. >> IT FEELS VERY REAL FOR MY
FAMILY. I APPRECIATE THAT. >> SO WHAT I WOULD SAY TO YOU IS, MAY FINKMAN WHEN SHE CAME INTO THE OFFICE, I SAID THEY SAID THEY WERE UNCOMFORTABLE REPRESENTING THE NONPROFIT AFFILIATES. THEY ASKED TO BE TAKEN OUT OF IT. CCI ISSUED AN RPF FOR LEGAL SERVICES. THEY ASKED ME TO REPLY TO IT. I GOT A FORMAL REQUEST TO PROVIDE SERVICES TO CCI. I RESPONDED BACK AND SAID I COULD NOT DO THAT BECAUSE I HAD A CONFLICT T OF INTEREST BECAUSE I REPRESENT THE CITY. THAT'S HOW WE MITIGATED THE ISSUE. THE NEXT THING IS AGAIN, I'M A LAWYER.
MY RESPONSIBILITY IS TO TRANSPARENTALLY WORK WITH WHAT I
FOUND. >> SO AS A LAWYER, AS TRYING TO GIVE THE BEST COUNSEL, DID THE CITY DO AN RFP TO RETAIN YOU AS A LAWYER FOR THE AFFILIATE REVIEW PROCESS? I UNDERSTAND YOUR PEDIGREE IS LONG AND YOU ARE WONDERFUL, AND SMART AND A GREAT LAWYER. BUT ON THE FRONT T END AS WE DO THE STEPS, WHEN I TALK ABOUT T CHECKS AND BALANCES AT&T THE CITY LEVEL, PART OF THE STORY OF ALL OF THIS NOW IS THAT ON THE FRONT END OF THE TRANSITION, WE HAVE A POTENTIAL CONFLICT FOR A LAW FIRM THAT IS NOW MANAGING THE PROCESS FOR THE CITY ABOUT THE REVIEW OF THE AFFILIATES THAT THEY ARE SAYING ARE IN A BAD SPOT. AGAIN, I'M HEART BROKEN THAT WE ARE HERE AND THIS IS THE CONVERSATION WE ARE HAVING. THIS IS THE CITY THAT I LOVE. THESE ARE THINGS THAT I CARE ABOUT DEEPLY AND I KNOW EVERYONE IN THIS ROOM DOES OR THEY WOULDN'T BE IN THIS ROOM. SO AS WE ARE LOOKING AT THE BEST INTEREST OF THE PLACE OF RES DEPENDENCE, THE PLACE WHERE WE ARE RAISING THE KIDS AND TAKING THEM TO THE CHRIS MARKET TO BUY CLOCKS FROM YOUR DAUGHTER'S WONDERFUL HUSBAND'S FATHER, THOSE ARE AMAZINGLY COOL THINGS WE GET TO DO TOGETHER AND HERE WE ARE ON MEETING FOUR WHERE -- OR WHATEVER, I THINK WE ARE ON FOUR. BUT WE ARE NOW LOOKING AT THIS ISSUE, ANEW, IT WAS NOT BROUGHT UP, IF IT IS A THING, IF THERE WAS A REASON TO DISCUSS IT EARLIER, THAT COULD HAVE BEEN SOMETHING THAT WE COULD HAVE ADDRESSED. IT TOOK GOING THROUGH THIS PROCESS TO BE OPEN AND TRANSPARENT. I WILL SAY THAT THE ONE THING THAT HAS COME OUT OF THIS IS WE HAVE CREATED A FORUM TO BE TRANSPARENT ABOUT THE THINGS THAT ARE PUTTING US IN SITUATIONS WHERE ALL OF THE ARTICLES ABOUT CHRIS KINDLE MARKET PRESENTLY. I THINK THE CONCEPT OF THAT, THAT WE COULD GET THROUGH THESE THINGS TOGETHER IF WE COMMUNICATE IS THE GREATEST TRANSPARENCY COMING FROM THIS BUT WE EHAVE NOT DONE THAT. IT TOOK GETTING THROUGH THAT AND THEN NEWS STORIES BEING PUBLISHED FOR US TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION. AND THEN YOU ASKING ME BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY I
[01:35:04]
DIDN'T WANT TO HAVE IT. I WOULD HAVE PREFERRED IT TO BE HADAPPROPRIATELY. >> AND I THINK YOUR LAWYER, I'M A LAWYER, WE HAVE A PROCESS FOR CONFLECTS OF INTEREST.
>> BUT WE HAVE A DUTY TO PROTECT OUR CLIENTS AS WELL. TO GET THE CITY INTO A POSITION TO GET THE CITY STAFF WHICH BRAND NEW CITY COUNCIL, THE CORPORATION COUNCIL DOESN'T T KNOW ABOUT 501C3 OR 501C4S UNTIL THIS PROCESS. THEN TO TAKE THAT WORK ON AND THEN FOR THAT WORK TO IMMEDIATELY TURN INTO WHAT WE ARE DOING HERE TODAY, IT IS A YEAR AND A HALF IN AND WE ARE DOING AN OFFICIAL AFFILIATED REVIEW BECAUSE AFFILIATES ARE BEING TAKEN APART OR SHIFTED OR CHANGED. I SDWRUS JUST REALLY STRUGGLE. I'M STRUGGLING TO SEE THAT. I'M TRYING TO GET BACK TO WHERE WE ARE. CHECKS AND BALANCES, WE DIDN'T HAVE THE INFORMATION WE NEEDED TO ENSURE THAT THE COUNCIL WE WERE BRINGING ON BOARD WOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN US TO THIS POINT A YEAR AND A HALF LATER THAT THIS WAS THE CONVERSATION THAT THE CITY IS HAVING IN A MEETING. I SAY THAT, THIS IS OUR COMMUNITY, THE FLIP IS, DOES THE BOARD CHAIR OF CHRIS KINDLE MARKET PRESENTLY WORK FOR TAGGERY AND DID SHE WORK AT THE TIME SHE WAS
APPOINTED? >> YES. AND SHE HAS LEGAL COUNSEL, ICE MILLER. THEY INCURRED $137,000 IN LEGAL FEES.
I WILL TELL YOU I HAVE NOT BEEN INCLUDED IN THE CONVERSATION.
>> THE CONCEPT OF THE UP THE OF MUP AY WE ARE SPENDING.
>> IF I WERE TELL HER WHAT TO DO THEY WOULD NOT --.
>> I DON'T THINK YOU COULD BECAUSE YOU ARE RELATED TO THE
LARGEST VENDOR AT THE MARKET. >> I'M NOT RELATED.
>> THERE IS A PERSONAL PROCESS CONFLICT BASED ON THE ENERMENT OF MONEY TO YOUR FAMILY WHICH I GET AND IT SUCKS AND IT IS WILD THAT WE ARE HERE TALK ABOUT THIS. I DON'T THINK THIS IS THE MAIN ISSUE BUT WHAT IT HIGHLIGHTS IS A BREAKDOWN IN THE TRUST WHICH WE ARE SEEING WITH THE ARTICLES TO THE EDITOR AND THINGS THAT HAVE PUT US IN A POSITION WHERE WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET OUT OF AND MAKE SURE THE THINGS THAT MATTER TO THE CITY WILL STILL HAPPEN. WE ARE IN THE BUYING SEASON FOR THE MARKET T. WE KNOW ETHAT. WE ARE WHERE WE NEED TO START FIGURING OUT HOW TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN. IT TOOK US FOUR MONTHS, FIVE MONTHS TO GET TO THE POINT WHERE THE REAL TFRGZ ABOUT T WHERE WE ARE IS COMING TO LIGHT. IF WE COULD GO BACK IN TIME, I THINK THE CHECKS AND BALANCES, THE THINGS WE NEED TO IMPLEMENT BASED ON ALL OF THIS REVIEW, HOW COULD WE HAVE STOPPED THIS FROM OCCURRING? HOW COULD WE HAVE PUT OURSELVES IN A SITUATION WHERE IF THERE WAS NEED FOR CHANGE, WE KNEW OF IT AND WE WORKED TOGETHER TO GET THERE. THOSE ARE THE TYPES OF THIPGS THE COMMUNITY SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT AND NOT WHAT WE ARE PRESENTLY TALKING ABOUT. AGAIN, I HATE THAT WE ARE. I DON'T -- THIS GETS TO THE BROADER QUESTION OF WHAT DO WE NEXT FROM A COMMITTEE STANDPOINT, FROM AFFILIATE REVIEW? WHAT DO WE WANT TO SEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL TO FIGURE OUT WHAT STEPS ARE THERE? HAPPY TO CONTINUE. I THINK IT T MATTERS TO POLE THE INFORMATION, FIND OUT WHO THE AFFILIATES ARE, HOW WE INTERACT WITH THEM, GET TO OUR FEET UNDER US AS SOON AS AS POSSIBLE TO MAKE SURE THE THINGS THAT MATTER TO CARMEL CONTINUE. AND TAKE STEPS AS SOON AS WE CAN TO START RECTIFYING GAPS AND KNOWLEDGE FROM A REPORTING STANDPOINT OR THE IDEA THAT AGAIN A MEETING OF OUR AFFILIATE THAT KNOWS THAT ALL OF THIS IS GOING ON AND ALL OF US TALKING ABOUT IS MEETING THE DAY BEFORE THE AFFILIATE REVIEW COMMITTEE IS MAKING CHANGES TO THE OPERATIONS AS THOUGH THEY ARE INDEPENDENT BUT NOT INDEPENDENT ENOUGH TO BE INDEPENDENT ENOUGH TO SURVIVE A TRANSITION? LIKE, IT JUST SEEMS AS THOUGH AS WE TALK ABOUT IT, WE MISSED THE BOAT TO FIX IT. IT SEEMS WHILE WE TALK ABOUT IT, NOBODY IS TAKING STEPS TO FIX IT. WE ARE STILL FIXING THE ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN PRESENTED.
I REALLY NEED US TO TAKE A STEP BACK AND FIGURE OUT WHERE TO GO
[01:40:01]
FROM HERE. I SAY THAT TO TAKE POINT OF PRIVILEGE FROM TADDIOUS, I WOULD LOVE TOHAVE A CONVERSATION WITH ONLY THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS AT THIS POINT. IF THERE IS OTHER INFORMATION WE NEED TO SHARE OR WE NEED TO POLL, I'M HAPPY TO TAKE IT AS IF IT IS CONSTITUENT INFORMATION COMING IN FROM OTHER CONSTITUENTS ON THIS ISSUE. I WOULD LOVE TO SEE IT. I THINK WE ALL WOULD. SO THAT WE CAN START TO MAKE DECISIONS ON WHAT THESTEPS ARE. >> MR. CHAIRMAN? PER EARLIER, I MOVE THAT WE USE OUR NEXT MEETING TO REVIEW THE LIST THAT WE BROUGHT UP. RANK BY RISK AND DOLLARS THAT COMMITTEE BROUGHT UP EARLIER. AS FOR TRACKING TIME, AS WE SAID, DON'T DO THAT OTHER THAN STREET DEPARTMENT. WE CAN TELL YOU FROM A MARKETING PERSPECTIVE, HOW THEY FUNCTION WITH THE DIFFERENT GROUPS BECAUSE WE HAD THAT DETAILED IN THE BUDGET PROCESS. WE CANNOT TELL YOU TIME AND THEY ARE THE ONES AFFECTED THE MOST. THEY ARE FULL-TIME EMPLOYEES WITH EVENTS IN TITLE. THAT WOULD RELATE TO MOST NONPROFITS. I MOVE WE USE NEXT TIME TO REVIEW THE LIST.
PER YOUR SUGGESTIONEN CITY LEGAL DOING IT, IT IS ON TOP OF EVERYTHING ELSE THEY ARE DOING. THEY ARE NOT A ROBUST DEPARTMENT. IT WILL NOT HAPPEN IN TWO OR THREE WEEKS. WE WILL HAVE TO SCHEDULE WHEN WE THINK WE CAN GET IT DONE WHICH MAY BE
JUNE. >> SO I JUST, IS LEGAL THE BEST TO SORT THROUGH THAT OR IS FINANCE OR -- AGAIN, I WAS JUST GENERICALLY SAYING HAVE SOMEONE OTHER THAN US TAKE A CRACK ON RANKING SIZE, RISK, DOLLARS THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS .
THERE IS ONE THAT HAS TO PULL THE GRANTS CONTRACTS AGREEMENTS WHICH IS NOT EASY TO FIND AND SECOND IS RANKING AND RATING THEM. SO I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO COULD DO THE LATTER BUT FINDING THE CONTRACTS AND REVIEWING THEM IS LEGAL.
>> AND CERTAINLY IF IT TAKES TIME TO DO THAT, IT'S A BETTER INVESTMENT UP FRONT. THE OTHER THING IS TRYING TO TAKE A STEP BACK TO THE 30,000 FOOT VIEW, MY VIEW IS THAT THE REASON WE ARE HERE AS REPRESENTATIVE AFFILIATES, MAYBE WE GET TO ANOTHER SLICE, GOODS, BAD, UGLY, AND COME UP WITH PROCESSES IN PLACE TO DO BETTER GOING FORWARD. I THINK AT THIS POINT, WE ALL PROBABLY ALONG WITH MARY LEE HAVE STARTED THE LIST OF WHAT ARE THE THIPGS THAT WE COULD BE CULLING TOGETHER GENERICALLY TO DO BETTER. WE TALKED ABOUT INDEPENDENT COUNSEL WHICH IS GOOD IDEA FROM A VARIETY OF STANDPOINTS. WE TALKED ABOUT CONFLICT OF INTEREST POLICY AND PROCEDURE.
WE TALKED ABOUT STANDARDIZED REPORTING WHICH IS IMPORTANT.
PUTTING SOME MORE DETAIL ON THAT DOWN STREAM, WHAT DOES THAT LOCK LIKE. WE TALKED ABOUT CHECK LISTS, THAT THEY WOULD HAVE THAT WERE LEGAL CHECKLISTS AND REPORTING CHECK LISTS. AND BOARD EDUCATION, YOU KNOW. I BELIEVE THAT MANY IF NOT THE MAJORITY OF THE AFFILIATES ARE TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING WITH MANY NOT KNOWING WHAT THEIR DUTIES AND OBLIGATIONS ARE. SO I THINK THOSE SORT OF RECOMMENDATIONS WE COULD BE WORKING ON ALONG WITH INPUT AS LEGAL IS STARTING TO PUT TOGETHER THE NEXT ROUND OF THAT. ULTIMATELY, AS YOU SAID, A LOT OF EMOTIONS EVERYWHERE BUT IN THE END, THIS PROCESS WILL YIELD BETTER PROCESSES WHERE OUR AFFILIATES ARE BETTER PREPARED TO FIND THEIR MISSION, MEET T THEIR MISSION, FIND THEIR MISSION ALONG WITH THE STEWARDSHIP AND TRANSPARENCY THAT GOES ON I THINK WE HAVE GOTTEN TO SOME OF THOSE INITIAL RECOMMENDATIONS.
>> I DO HAVE A MOTION ON THE TABLE.
>> IS THERE A SECOND? >> SECOND.
>> SO A MOTION, ANY DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION? ALL THOSE IN
>> AYE. >> UNANIMOUS, IT PASSES. SO NEXT MEETING WE WILL PULL A LIST, AND WE WILL START THE PROCESS OF
[01:45:04]
REVIEWING -- SORRY. WE WILL DISCUSS WHAT THE NEXT.>> CORRECT. PULLING THE LIST, HAVING THE CITY RANK THEM, PULL THE FINANCIAL INFORMATION AND STARTING TO DISCUSS. I DO WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR AGAIN THAT ALL INFORMATION IS IMPORTANT. WE ARE PULLING EVERYTHING WE CAN GET TO MAKE THE BEST RECOMMENDATIONS WE CAN AND THE RECOMMENDATIONS ARE NOT THE END ALL BE ALL. THEY DO NOT EBD WITH THE AFFILIATE REVIEW COMMITTEE. ALL OF THIS IS ITERATIVE. AS WE MOVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO WURG TOGETHER, HOW TO HAVE OPEN CONVERSATIONS, HOW TO MAKE SURE GOVERNMENTIS WORKING WITH GOVERNMENT TO MAKE THE THINGS THAT MATTER TO THE CITY HAPPEN OR NOT HAPPEN THAT WE ARE DOING THAT IN THE BEST WAY WE
CAN. YEAH. >> I JUST WANT TO ADD TO DR.
HANNON'S LIST, POSSIBLY HAVING COUNCIL REPRESENTATIVES OR COUNCIL APPOINTMENTS FOR ALL OF THE AFFILIATES AT SOME POINT.
AND AS A POINT OF ORDER, I WOULD LICK TO SAY TO YOU, CHAIRMAN LOCKE, IT TOOK A LOT OF COURAGE TO DISCUSS THESE ISSUES AND IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS. THE ARTICLES THAT HAVE COME OUT HAVE BEEN INCLITENING. TO YOUR POINT, THOSE QUESTIONS SHOULD HAVE BEEN ANSWERED. I DIDN'T WANT YOU TO THINK YOU WERE ALONE IN YOUR THOUGHT PROCESS. SO MY INITIAL POINT OF WHAT I SAID EARLIER, I THOUGHT THE MISSION OF THIS AFFILIATE REVIEW WAS TO GATHER INFORMATION AND PUT FORTH BEST PRACTICES. AND YOU KNOW WHEN I SAID THAT, I HAD READ ALL OF THOSE DOCUMENTS, WHAT I MEANT BY THAT WAS THAT I DIDN'T THINK WE WOULD HAVE DISCUSSIONS WITH THE AFFILIATES OR THE AFFILIATE EMPLOYEES, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, SO AND SO. ME SAYING THAT IS -- THE REASON I'M SAYING THAT IS BECAUSE I FEEL REALLY WITH THE INFORMATION THAT CAME FORTH. I UNDERSTAND YOUR FRUSTRATION. IT IS NOT FUN TO READ THESE THINGS IN THE NEWSPAPER. AND WITH THE INTENT OF WHAT THIS COMMITTEE WAS MEANT TO DO. I DIDN'T WANT YOU TO FEELALONE ON THIS. THANK
YOU. >> I APPRECIATE THAT. AND I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THAT DOWN TO ALL LEVELS. AGAIN, TRANSPARENCY MATTERS. I WANT TO SAY THAT I DO HAVE MASSIVE APPRECIATION FOR GOING THROUGH THIS SPECIFICALLY WITH COUNCIL THAT HAS BEEN PART OF ALL OF THIS, IT IS NOT EASY. NONE OF THIS IS EASY. ALL IT IS QUESTIONING FIRST IMPRESSION AND HOW DOWE MANAGE AND FIGURE OUT HOW TO MOVE FORWARD TOGETHER. THE CONCEPT THAT WE ARE DOING THIS AS A COMMUNITY, TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO BEST SUPPORT OUR COMMUNITY I DON'T WANT TO BE LOST ON ANYONE REGARDLESS OF HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT WHAT WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT, WHERE WE ARE GOING, WHAT'S HAPPENING, WHAT IS DISCUSSED, NOT DISCUSSED. THE GOAL HERE IS A BETTER PLACE TO LIVE. AT THE END OF ALL OF THIS, WE DO THE BEST WE CAN ON ALL FRONTS AND HOPE IT ENDS UP WITH RESULTS THAT WILL MAKE EVERYONE AS CLOSE TO HAPPY AS THEY CAN BE. KNOWING FULL WELL THAT EVERYTHING IS NOT AS EASY AS YES OR NO OR DOLLARS BACK OR DOLLARS MADE. THERE IS SO MUCH MORE TO ALL OF THAN THAT. I APPRECIATE THAT. I AGREE WITH DR. HANNON AND THE MAYOR I THINK THE BEST WAY FORWARD IS TO FIGURE OUT WHAT INFORMATION WE CAN GATHER TO MAKE SURE BEST PRACTICES ARE BEING BUILT. IF THERE ARE THINGS WE NEED TO DO IN THE INTERIM TO ENSURE THERE ARE NOT THINGS HAPPENING OR SHOULD HAPPEN OR WILL NOT HAPPEN AGAIN, THAT WE FIX THOSE AS WE GO. SO WITH THAT, BLUE CARDS. AGAIN, I DON'T HAVE MY BLUE CARD SHEET BUT IT IS A 3 MINUTE TIME LIMIT. AND WE ARE -- OKAY. FIRST UP IS JAN HURL. I HAD TO REWRITE THIS. IT MAY NOD BE 3 MINUTES. YOU
[01:50:28]
TALK ABOUT TRANSPARENCY. TRANSPARENCY ONLY HAPPENED BECAUSE PEOPLE QUIT AND FELT THEY WERE OKAY TO TELL THE TRUTH. OTHERWISE WE NEVER WOULD HAVE KNOWN. FROM THE BEGINNING, THE EXERCISE FELT LIKE A HUNT. WITH THE ANALYSIS BEFORE WE EALL READ ABOUT THE CONFLICTS AND CURRENT, TO LEARN OF THE COLLEAGUE GAGGED MARIA SO SHE COULDN'T RESPOND AND HENRY GOT TO SIT HERE AND DO THIS THING, HARDLY SEEMS FAIR. THIS IS SO MANY LAYERERS OF WRONG. 3 MINUTES IS NOT ENOUGH. THE WITCH HUNT WAS INTENDED TO GET MARIA TO LEAVE SO THE SECLUSION COULD STAY BURIED AND THE FAMILY MEMBER COULD GET THE SPECIAL DEAL HE WANTED. CONGRATS, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, MARIA RESIGN. NOW WE KNOW THE SECRETS. SHE CAN TALK 'TIL SHE IS BLUE IN THE FACE AND SAY THERE IS NO CONFLICT BUT I HAD A PROF IN COLLEGE WHO HAD A RED BULL SHUT STAMP AND HE WOULD BE PULLINGTHAT OUT NOW. >> WATCH THE LANGUAGE, POLICE.
>> HE HAD A BS STAMP. BUT I WANT TO THANK THE MAYOR FOR SAYING THERE IS NO CONFLICT. THAT ANSWERS A QUESTION, DID MS. SPRINGER DISCLOSE THE CONFLICT TO THE MAYOR AND DID THE MAYOR CONSENT TO BE ADVISED. SHE SAYS THERE WAS NO CONFLICT BUT BALONEY. I THINK WE CAN SAFELY ASSUME THAT WRITTEN CONSENT DID NOT HAPPEN OR ELSE THE MAYOR WOULD NOT HAVE MADE THAT STATEMENT. IN MY CAREER, IF I HAD SERVED ON A COMMITTEE TO CHOOSE A SOFTWARE PROJECT AND I FAILED TO DISCLOSE THAT MY SON IN LAW'S FAMILY HAD A SIGNIFICANT FINANCIAL STAKE IN THE VENTURE, MY TERMINATION WOULD HAVE BRUTAL. MY EMPLOYER REQUIRED WE TAKE A COURSE IN CONFLICT OF INTEREST AND SIGN OFF. DID MS. SPRINGER'S FIRM NOT HAVE SIMILAR INPLACE? THAT IS A DIFFERENT HUGE PROBLEM. EITHER WAY, I THINK WE NEED TO START OVER WITH A NEW FIRM AND NEW LAWYER. EVERYTHING SHE TOLD US UP TO THIS POINT REGARDING THE MARKET IN MOY MIND SUSPECT.
THE ONLY FUNNY THING ABOUT THIS MESS IS THAT THE KOUM DIDN'T WANT JEFF TORAL BECAUSE HE SOLD SOME SHIRTS. BUT MS. IS ALLOWED WHEN HER FAMILY SELLS A SINGLE COOKUE CLOCK FOR $3,000. THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A LOT OF T-SHIRTS TO SELL TO COME CLOSE TO THAT CONFLICT. WE HAVE ONE VENDOR TOO BIG TO LOSE AND THE MAYOR USES HER POSITION, IS THAT A COINCIDENCE THAT SHE FAVORED THIS ONE VENDOR THAT HAPPENED TO BE RELATED TO MS. SPRINGER? COINCIDENCE, I THINK ONE LIKELY. OH, GOD. CAN I HAVE 30 SECONDS?
>> NO, I APOLOGIZE. UP NEXT IS MATT SNYDER.
>> NO, SIR, 3 MINUTES IS BROWN? E IS. THIRD UP IS ROB -
>> I HAD A MUCH LONGER SPEECH PREPARED BUT I WAS ADVISED TO SCALE IT BACK. I WOULD JUST ENCOURAGE EVERYONE INVOLVED IN THE DECISION MAKING, ESPECIALLY WITH THE MARKET TO INSTEAD OF VIEWING IT AS STRICTLY DOLLARS AND CENTS TYPE OF THING, VIEW IT AS A MARKET T THAT BRINGS AN INCREASE IN CIVIC PRIDE AND COMMUNITY MORAL. NOT EVERYTHING IN LIFE CAN BE QUANTIFIED BY THE DOLLARS AND CENTS OF IT. I'M CURIOUS WHAT THE PROCESS WILL LOOK LIKE FOR ESTABLISHING NEW LEADERSHIP, IF IT WILL BE OPEN AND TRANSPARENT PROCESS TO GETTING NEW LEADERSHIP AT THE MARKET AND WILL IT BE OPEN TO EVERYBODY TO SUBMIT FOR BEING THE LEADER FOR THAT AND WHAT WILL THAT PROCESS LOOK LIKE? I WOULD BE CURIOUS TO KNOW WHAT THAT WOULD ENTAIL. OTHER THAN THAT, IT WOULD BE A SHAME TO GO TO CARTER GREEN AND SEE IT
[01:55:01]
EMPTY. I WOULD ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO STAY ON THE SAME PAGE AND KEEP THE BALL ROLLING. ONCE IT CEASES TO EXIST, I DON'T THINK IT WOULD COME BACK AND THAT WOULD BE A TRAGEDY, BECOME THE CALLING CARD OF THE CITY. IT IS BY FAR THE LARGEST -- I'M A BORN AND RAISED CARMEL GUY. IT IS BY FAR THE LARGEST BY SCOPE. EVERY YEAR I HAVE BEEN THERE, I HAVE MET PEOPLE FROM DIFFERENT STATES THAT HAVE COME IN. CARMEL HAS NOT HAD ANYTHING LIKE THAT IN THE PAST. IT WOULD BE A REAL SHAME TO LET SOME MONEY OVERCOME WHAT HAS BEEN A SOURCE OF JOY AND PRIDE AND HAPPINESS FOR THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE HERE. I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH MY TAX DOLLARS GOING TO IT AS A BUSINESS OWNER AND AS A RESIDENT. AGAIN, I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO TRY TO KEEP IN MIND THAT THERE IS MORE TO THE STORY THAN JUST TRYING TO SAVE A COUPLE OF BUCKS, THAT THE MARKET IS IMPORTANT TO MANY OF US AND IT WOULD BE A SHAME TO SEE IT GO. AND IF ANYONE CAN ESTABLISH A PROCESS FOR NEW LEADERSHIP.>> THANK YOU. WITH THAT, THAT ENDS OUR BLUE CARDS. NOTHING ELSE ON MY END. ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY CLOSING? OUR NEXT MEETING IS POSTED IN ACCORDANCE TO THE OPEN DOOR LAW. WITH THAT, I ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.