May 05, 2025 City Council Meeting

[1. CALL TO ORDER]

[00:00:07]

>>> CALL THIS MEETING OF CARMEL COMMON COUNCIL TO ORDER MONDAY,

[2. AGENDA APPROVAL]

AGENDA APPROVAL. >> SECOND.

>> WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. PLEASE VOTE. THAT PASSES

[3. INVOCATION]

>> WOULD YOU PRAY WITH ME? LORD WE THANK YOU FOR OUR CIVIL SERVANTS, THANK YOU FOR THE HARD WORK AND SACRIFICE MAY YOU CONTINUALLY BLESS THEM, GENEROUSLY GIVE TO EACH OF THEM WISE AND DISCERNING HEARTS TO SKILLFULLY GOVERN THE PEOPLE IN OUR CITY. GIVE THE MAYOR, CITY LEADERS, STAFF AND CITY COUNCIL WISDOM SO THAT THEY MAY SOLVE PROBLEMS, DISTINGUISH BETWEEN RIGHT AND WRONG AND BRING ORDER AND STABILITY TO OUR COMMUNITY.

I PRAY THAT YOUR SPIRIT WILL MOVE IN THE SPACE TONIGHT AND GUIDE THEM TO MAKE DECISIONS THAT AFFECT MANY, WE ARE GRATEFUL FOR THEM AND LIFT THEM TO YOU TONIGHT AND ABOVE ALL MAY YOU BE HONORED AND GLORIFIED TONIGHT. WE PRAY ALL OF THIS IN

[4. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE]

THE NAME OF JESUS, AMEN. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. PLEASE STAND FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.

>> I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD INDIVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.

>> THANK YOU, NEXT ON THE AGENDA IS RECOGNITION OF CITY EMPLOYEES

[6. RECOGNITION OF PERSONS WHO WISH TO ADDRESS THE COUNCIL]

NUMBER SIX, RECOGNITION OF PERSONS WHO WISH TO ADDRESS THE COUNCIL KNOWN AS THE BLUE CARD SECTION. WE HAVE QUITE A FEW TONIGHT. I'M GOING TO READ INSTRUCTIONS SO PEOPLE KNOW THE RULES FOR SPEAKING AND I WILL PUT SOMEONE ON DECK , SO WHEN YOU ARE SECOND UP, PLEASE GET BEHIND SO WE HAVE TIME AND WE DON'T HAVE TO WAIT FOR YOU TO ENTER. FOR THIS YOU GET THREE MINUTES, THE LIGHT BY THE PODIUM WILL START GREEN, THEN GO TO YELLOW WHEN THERE IS 30 SECONDS LEFT WHICH MEANS WRAP IT UP AND THEN TURNED TO RED WHEN TIME IS UP, SOMETIMES WE LET PEOPLE GO OVER BUT BECAUSE WE HAVE QUITE A FEW TONIGHT WE WILL STICK TO THE THREE MINUTES SO PLEASE TRY TO WRAP IT UP AT THREE MINUTES.

TOUCH THE BUTTON TO TURN ON YOUR MICROPHONE AND THIS IS NOT A CONVERSATION. SO IF YOU ASK QUESTIONS OF THE COUNCIL THEY WILL NOT ANSWER IT IS JUST A CHANCE FOR YOU TO SPEAK AND WE ASK ANY FORM OF DEMONSTRATION SUCH AS CLAPPING, CHEERING IS NOT ALLOWED, THIS IS A BUSINESS MEETING. FIRST UP WE HAVE ] SPEAKING ABOUT STAMP OUT HUNGER FOOD DRIVE AND AFTER HIM WOULD BE MR. STONEHOUSE TALKING ABOUT PROPERTY TAX ASSESSMENT.

STONEHOUSE CAN COME BEHIND TO SPEAK NEXT.

>> THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME SPEAK. MY NAME IS A CITY LETTER CARRIER IN CARMEL. WE ARE HOSTING THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF LETTER CARRIERS STAMP OUT HUNGER FOOD DRIVE SATURDAY, MAY 10. THIS IS THE SINGLE DAY LARGEST FOOD DRIVE IN THE COUNTRY, THE AREA THAT I COVER IS BOONE COUNTY, ENTERS COUNTY, HAMILTON AND PART OF MADISON COUNTY. ALL FOOD COLLECTED GOES TO LOCAL FOOD PANTRIES. USUALLY WHEN PEOPLE THINK OF DONATING TO FOOD PANTRIES THEY THINK ABOUT THANKS GIVING HER CHRISTMAS, BUT THIS FOOD DRIVE HELPS PROVIDE FOOD STORES SO THAT KEEPS THE CYCLE GOING WHERE THEY PICK UP AGAIN THANKSGIVING AND DECEMBER AND AGAIN WHEN WE DO OURS. RESIDENTS WILL RECEIVE FOOD DRIVE CARDS TODAY OR TOMORROW . WE ASK RESIDENTS TO FILL OUT A BAG OR TWO AND LEAVE IT AT THE MAILBOX FOR CITY AND RURAL AND VOLUNTEERS TO COLLECT THOSE AND SWORD THOSE AND DISTRIBUTE THOSE TO THE FOOD PANTRIES. THIS YEAR WE HAVE SOLICITED VARIOUS SMALL BUSINESSES TO HELP WITH THAT, THAT'S WHY I HAVE THE TUB UP HERE. QUICKLY, KNEELERS FRESH MARKET AND NEIMAN'S MARKET HAS A LOT OF US TO PUT OUT BINS TO COLLECT FOOD. A COUPLE PEOPLE ON MY ROUTE, ALPHA GRAPHICS DOWN THE STREET AND FIELD OF DREAMS WHISKEY ALSO DONATED FOOD ITEMS.

[00:05:05]

THIS IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO HELP OUT THE COMMUNITY AND FOR FUTURE CONSIDERATION. I DON'T WANT TO GIVE OUT THE CHAIR, TO THE MAYOR HIP HIP HOORAY. TO CITY COUNCIL, HIP HIP HOORAY.

THANK YOU TO THE CITY OF CARMEL. THANK YOU.

>> ALL RIGHT NEXT UP MR. STONEHOUSE AND BEHIND THAT IS NANCY TATUM. AFTER YOU'RE DONE SPEAKING IF YOU'RE NOT REQUIRED TO STICK AROUND, YOU'RE WELCOME TO, BUT IF YOU WISH TO LEAVE WE ASK THAT YOU DO IN A QUIET AND ORDERLY MANNER. ALL RIGHT MR.

STONEHOUSE. >> THANK YOU THAT'S TOUGH TO FOLLOW. MY NAME IS DAVID STONEHOUSE ON BEHALF OF THE HUNTINGTON CHASE HOA, MY FAMILY AND I MOVED TO CARMEL IN 2020 AND WE NEVER PLAN TO LEAVE. LOVE THE CITY, LOVE EVERYTHING ABOUT THE CITY. WE APPRECIATE EVERYTHING TOWN LEADERSHIP DOES THAT MAKES CARMEL A GREAT PLACE TO LIVE AND WE UNDERSTAND THE INVESTMENT REQUIRED TO CREATE AND MAINTAIN THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WE HAVE. THAT SAID I WAS ASKED BY ONE OF OUR NEIGHBORS IN THE LAST COUPLE MONTHS TO ATTEND A MEETING AND ADDRESS THE MOST RECENT PROPERTY TAX ASSESSMENT THAT HE HAS SEEN WHICH FOR MANY PEOPLE IN THE AREA WAS CLOSE TO 25%. WE RECOGNIZE THE INCREASE IN PROPERTY TAX REFLECTS INCREASE IN THE VALUE OF PROPERTIES, SUBSTANTIAL INCREASES HAVE CREATED FINANCIAL HARDSHIP FOR SOME AND ARE NOT SUSTAINABLE FOR OTHERS, IN PARTICULAR THOSE WHO ARE NEAR RETIREMENT AND WHO ARE IN RETIREMENT. AGAIN THIS IS NOTHING THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE LEADERSHIP OR THE INVESTMENT YOU MAKE IN THE CITY, WE APPRECIATE THAT. I AM HERE TO BRING AWARENESS TO SOME OF THE HARDSHIP THAT SOME PEOPLE EVEN IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD ARE HAVING AND I KNOW ONE OF THE ISSUES WITH OR ONE OF THE ISSUES WE ARE FOCUSED ON IN TERMS OF DEVELOPING IS CREATING HOUSING FOR THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN RETIREMENT SO PEOPLE WHO SELL SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES CAN MOVE INTO OTHER COMMUNITIES AND WHAT WE SEE IS PEOPLE HAVING TO PUT UP RETIREMENT OFF INTO THE FUTURE, SELLING HOMES IN THE FUTURE BECAUSE OF ISSUES LIKE THIS. WE WOULD ASK THAT WHEN YOU'RE CONSIDERING BUDGETING IN THE NEXT YEAR PLEASE TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THE HARDSHIP THAT THESE SUBSTANTIAL INCREASES IN PROPERTY TAXES ARE HAVING, ON ON AGAIN WE APPRECIATE EVERYTHING YOU DO, YOU ARE ALWAYS VERY RESPONSIVE. WE HAVE HAD COUNCILMAN ATTEND OUR MEETINGS AND WE APPRECIATE THAT SO MUCH AND WE APPRECIATE ALL THE TIME YOU GIVE US BUT THIS HAS BECOME SOMETHING THAT IS CONCERNING FOR MULTIPLE PEOPLE. WE ASK, I KNOW HOUSE BILL ONE ADDRESSES THIS WE ASK COUNCIL TO BRING AWARENESS TO IT AND TRY TO BRING IT UNDER CONTROL FOR SOME OF US GOING FORWARD. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. NEXT WE HAVE NANCY TATUM AND AFTER THAT IS BOB

CARLSON. >> THE WOODS THAT I LOVED AS A CHILD ARE ENTIRELY GONE, THE WOODS I RECENTLY WALKED ARE NOT GONE, BUT HAVE PAVED TRAILS AND A PARKING LOT. WE CAN ASK OURSELVES WHAT CAN I DO FOR THE LITTLE PIECE OF THE WORLD I LOVE? EVERY ENCROACHMENT IS PERSONAL FOR SOMEONE. IT IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR EACH OF US TO STAND UP FOR WHAT WE LOVE. AS DEVELOPMENT CONTINUES, WE LOSE MORE NATURAL PLACES, THE CITY EMPHASIZES GREEN SPACE SO WITH THAT IN MIND I WANT TO REQUEST THE CITY COUNCIL WORK ALONGSIDE THE PLAN COMMISSION AND BOARD OF ZONING TO ADOPT A PLAN THAT REQUIRES DEVELOPERS TO PRESERVE CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF TREES AND 25% SOUNDS PRETTY FAIR. AND TO KEEP THE WETLANDS UNTOUCHED. BUILDERS CAN INCORPORATE INTO PLANS THE GUIDELINES AND SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO COMPLY WITH THESE REGULATIONS AND EXPECTATIONS SO THAT PEOPLE, ANIMALS AND TREES CAN COEXIST IN AREAS WHERE BUSINESSES AND HOMES WILL BE BUILT. NATURE AND THE ENVIRONMENT ARE TOTALLY DEPENDENT ON THE DECISIONS EACH OF YOU MAKES. PLEASE ADOPT A PLAN TO CREATE NATURAL HABITAT, NURTURE THE LAND AND CONSIDER

[00:10:02]

>> THANK YOU, NEXT UP WE HAVE BOB CARLSON AND SPEAKING AFTER THAT IS

APOLOGIZE. >> MY NAME IS BOB CARLSON, THIS IS MY SON BRIAN CARLSON WHO LIVES IN AN APARTMENT ON NORTH END. HERE TO ADVOCATE FOR THE APPROVAL OF A BOND FOR NORTH END PHASE 2. I LIVE AT 611 NORTHEAST , NINE YEARS AGO MY WIFE AND I DECIDED TO MOVE FROM KINGSWOOD TO SOUTHEAST CARMEL FOR TWO DOWNTOWN HOPING OUR OLDEST SON COULD FIND EMPLOYMENT IN YOUR HOME. WE FOUND A OLDER WE LOVE AND RYAN GOT A JOB DOING DISHES WHERE HE HAS WORKED FOR THE LAST SEVEN YEARS AND HE ALSO WORKS AT CARMEL RECORD CLUB. WE BECAME CONCERNED ABOUT WHERE RYAN WOULD LIVE AFTER WE PASSED. WE HAVE MANY FRIENDS WITH CHILDREN WHO HAVE SPECIAL NEEDS. WHEN WE LEARNED TWO YEARS AGO RYAN WAS SELECTED TO LIVE IN NORTH END WE WERE ECSTATIC BUT NERVOUS ABOUT HOW EVERYTHING WOULD UNFOLD. HAPPY TO SAY IT HAS BEEN AN INCREDIBLE SUCCESS FOR RYAN AND OUR FAMILY. HE HAS ACHIEVED INDEPENDENCE WE COULD HAVE NEVER IMAGINED. HE DOES HIS OWN LAUNDRY, COOKS HIS OWN MEALS, AND CLEANS HIS APARTMENT. RYAN AND I WORKOUT AT THE GYM TOGETHER ON SUNDAYS AND HE HAS A GROUP OF REGULRS HE NOW KNOWS. ONE IS NICK AND WHEN BRIAN WALKS IN AND SEES HIM BRIAN POINTS AND SAYS I LIKE THIS GUY. A COUPLE STEPHEN MARISOL ASK BRIAN HOW HE IS DOING ANY REPLIES I'M AMAZING. RYAN HAS GOT TO KNOW CHRIS THE OWNER OF THE PASTRY CHEF AND MANY EMPLOYERS KNOW BRIAN BY NAME, RYAN PARTICIPATES IN SOCIAL EVENTS, THE RESIDENTS ARE FRIENDLY AND CONSISTENTLY COME UP AND GREET HIM. ONE AMENITY IN BIBLE IS THE PRESENCE OF AMAZON ALEXA IN EACH UNIT WITH A SCREEN THAT SWIVELS AND FOLLOWS AS YOU TALK TO IT. RYAN WILL NOT LET ANYONE CALL OR TEXT ON HIS PHONE, HE USES IT TO KEEP TRACK OF VISCOMETER SO WHEN WE HEARD THERE WAS A DEVICE IN THE DEPARTMENT WE ASSUMED HE WOULD TREATED LIKE HIS PHONE AND NOT USE IT BUT OUR SURPRISE HE HAS EMBRACED IT AND USES IT TO COMMUNICATE WITH US, HIS BROTHERS AND OTHERS IN ADDITION TO GET REMINDERS TO TAKE OUT THE TRASH. RYAN WAS RECENTLY FEATURED AT A NATIONAL CONFERENCE IN ATLANTA ON ASSISTIVE TECHNOLOGY FOR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES AND A VIDEO SHOWING HOW RYAN USES ALEXA IN HIS APARTMENT. IT CHOKES ME UP WHEN I DROP THEM OFF AND ASKED TO COME UP AND HE SAYS I'M GOOD AND EXITS THE CAR. I WANT TO EXPRESS MY GRATITUDE FOR HAVING THE VISION AND FLEXIBILITY TO COLLABORATE WITH OLDTOWN TO BUILD A UNIQUE AND LIFE-CHANGING ENVIRONMENT FOR ADULTS WITH THIS ABILITIES. I'M HERE TO SUPPORT THE APPROVAL OF TIF BOND NORTH END PHASE 2 TO SUSTAIN THIS

ENVIRONMENT. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU, NEXT UP IS

] AND ON DECK IS RON CARTER. >> IS ALL ASSUMED YOU HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THE MARKET SAGA. I THINK YOU SHOULD GIVE UP ON THE MARKET, AT THIS POINT ONLY PEOPLE WHO WOULD APPLY ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE TOO STUPID TO GO HAVE THE CREATIVE SPARK, WORK ETHIC OR LEADERSHIP AND SKILLS THAT EXIST IN MARIA. DECIDE THE MISSION AND MAKE SURE CAREERS ARE NOT JEOPARDIZED WHEN WE GET A NEW MAYOR, THE MARKET CANNOT BE A POLITICAL FOOTBALL TO BE KICKED AROUND BY EACH NEW ADMINISTRATION OR YOU WILL DESTROY IT. REGARDING STRUCTURE, MISS SPRINGER HAS USED DOCUMENTS PREPARED BY IN-HOUSE COUNCIL, ARTICLES FROM CORPORATION AND IRS FILINGS AS PROOF POSITIVE THAT THE MARKET WAS INTENDED TO BE 501(C)(3) SUPPORTING ORGANIZATION BUT AT OTHER TIMES SHE HAS HAD IN-HOUSE COUNCIL IS NOT COMFORTABLE DOING THIS LEGAL WORK AND WE NEED TO HIRE A FIRM TO DO IT. WHY USE IN-HOUSE DOCUMENTS IN YOUR PROOF? SHOULDN'T WE REVISIT? MAYBE THERE'S A BETTER WAY TO ORGANIZE. WE SHOULD GET A NEW LAWYER TO DETERMINE WHAT STRUCTURE BEST ALIGNS WITH THE MISSION. REGARDING FINANCE I'M A FISCAL CONSERVATIVE AND FORMER CPA SO I SUPPORT THE DRIVE TO MAKE THE MARKET FINANCIALLY INDEPENDENT BUT YOU CAN'T DO A 180 OVERNIGHT WITHOUT BREAKING SOMETHING, SEEMS LIKE MARIA AND THE OLD BORDER TAKING THE FALL FOR FINANCIAL DECISIONS MADE BY PRIOR ADMINISTRATION OF WHICH MANY REMEMBER. THE CITY SPENDS

[00:15:04]

SUBJECTING MARIA TO TO HAVE HOURS OF POWER POINTS NOT ALLOWING HER TO RESPOND IS APPALLING. THAT'S WHEN SHE DECIDED TO QUIT AND I DON'T BLAME HER, THE CITY OWES HER A LOT AND PUBLIC APOLOGY. A BIG CHUNK OF THIS FIASCO WAS CAUSED ONE GUY WHO WANTED A SPECIAL DEAL WHO IS RELATED TO MISS SPRINGER WHO IS PRESUMABLY USED HER CONNECTIONS TO THE MAYOR TO GET THAT DEAL. IN THE PROCESS EMBARRASSED THE CITY AND MAY HAVE DESTROYED THE MARKET. AND THUS WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE THIS IS A COINCIDENCE THIS MEANS THE MAYOR HAS KNOWN ABOUT THIS SINCE OCTOBER AND DO NOT TELL YOU OR CANCEL THE CONTRACT. FOR THE RECORD I DON'T FAULT HIM FOR ASKING FOR SPECIAL TREATMENT WHICH IS WHY I DON'T SAY HIS NAME, I FAULT THEM FOR ABUSING THE PUBLIC TRUST FOR TRYING TO GRANT IT. THANK YOU.

>> RON CARTER AND THEN AFTER THAT IS ALLIE MESLER.

>> MEMBERS OF COUNCIL AND THE MAYOR. TIME SINCE MY SERVICE ON THIS COUNCIL ENDED, I HAD REMAIN PRETTY SILENT, NOW IT IS TIME TO SPEAK UP.. OF GRACE SHOULD BE OVER FOR YOU FOLKS AND THE MAYOR, EACH OF YOU CAMPAIGNED TOUTING MY TRANSPARENCY SHOULD AND WOULD BE PRACTICED WITH VIGOR ONE WERE ELECTED BUT THAT DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE THE CASE. TRANSPARENCY CANNOT BE ACHIEVED EFFECTIVELY UNLESS THE VOTERS INCLUDING YOU KNOW WHAT QUESTION TO ASK AND ASKED THE QUESTIONS AND INSIST ON PLAUSIBLE ANSWERS NOW IT IS TIME TO BEGIN ASKING QUESTIONS OF YOU AND LATER, THE MAYOR QUESTIONS YOU SEEM TO HAVE BEEN RELUCTANT TO ASK. I'M BEGINNING TO WRITE MY PRESENTATION THIS EVENING AND I KNEW THIS WOULD HAVE TO BE LIKE A NETFLIX PRODUCTION. IN A NUMBER OF EPISODES BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY QUESTIONS THAT WOULD CAUSE COUNCIL RULES ALLOW ONLY SHORT TIME UP HERE , THREE MINUTES. THIS EVENINGS EPISODE WILL BE ON ONE TOPIC, MY COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS ARE DIRECTED TO THE COUNCIL. LATER EPISODES WILL BE DIRECTED TO THE MAYOR AND OTHER TOPICS. THERE'S A LOT MORE TO DISCUSS BUT BECAUSE OF TIME CONSTRAINTS I WOULD BACK A SUBSEQUENT COUNCILMAN, THE MAYOR OPERATED THE CITY NEARLY 30 YEARS WITH NO DEPUTY MAYOR AND ONE DEPARTMENT HAD FOR EACH OF THE CITY'S 12 DEPARTMENTS NOW THE MAYOR HAS TWO DEPUTY MAYORS AND CHIEF OF STAFF ALONG WITH THE SAME NUMBER OF DEPARTMENTS AS THE LAST ADMINISTRATION. DID YOU FOLKS AGREE TO CHANGE IN CITY ORDINANCE TO ESTABLISH THE DEPUTY MAYOR POSITIONS? ARE YOU AWARE THE DEPARTMENT HEADS WITH ONE EXCEPTION NOT ONLY REPORT TO THE MAYOR BUT THEY HAVE TO SPEAK TO DEPUTY MAYOR ABOUT CITY MATTERS? DID YOU APPROVE SALARY OWNERS TO COVER THESE POSITIONS? IF SO, WHY DID YOU APPROVE THESE POSITIONS AND THE SALARIES THAT GO ALONG WITH THEM? THERE IS A RUMOR ONE OF THE NEW DEPUTIES SPENDS MUCH OF HIS TIME AS THE CHAUFFEUR FOR THE MAYOR. IS THAT TRUE? IF SO, WHY ARE YOU ALLOWING? DID YOU APPROVE OF INCREASE IN SALARY THAT MOVED ONE EMPLOYEE OVER $200,000 IN ANNUAL COMPENSATION TO AVOID HIM LEAVING THE PRIVATE SECTOR? WHERE IS THE MAYOR BETWEEN 20 AND 60 NEW EMPLOYEES ADDED TO THE STAFF SINCE SHE ASSUMED OFFICE. IS THAT TRUE? IF SO WHAT IS THE CURRENT HEADCOUNT AND WHY DID YOU APPROVE THE BUDGET TO ADD THESE EXTRA PEOPLE? FROM WHICH BUDGET ARE THE LEGAL AND ADMINISTERED OF COSTS WITH THE WORK OF THE AFFILIATE REVIEW COMMITTEE COMING FROM? IS IT THE COUNCIL BUDGET? IF SO, HOW MUCH HAS THAT COST AND DO YOU HAVE A PROJECTION THAT TELLS YOU HOW MUCH THE REMAINDER OF ITS WORK WILL COST? YOU AND THE MAYOR WERE HANDED IN ONE CITY IN THE UNITED STATES AND IT WAS WORKING WELL. RESIDENTS ARE HAPPY AND PROUD TO LIVE HERE, WHY HAVE YOU SPENT THE LAST 18 MONTHS WITH WHOLESALE CHANGES IN WHAT WAS KNOWN AS A CITY OF EXCELLENCE?

[00:20:03]

THANK YOU. >> NEXT UP IS DECK, ROB BROWN.

>> THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK. I RISE IN FULL SUPPORT OF CARMEL MARKET FORMER BOARD AND PRESIDENT NOT JUST AS A PROUD RESIDENT BUT AS SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS THE POWER A PLACE MAKING, ECONOMIC RETURN AND CULTURAL LEGACY. EACH WHICH ARE THE MARKET TRANSFORMS THE HEART OF THE CITY WALKING DISTNCE FROM MY HOME INTO A VIBRANT EUROPEAN-STYLE VILLAGE BRIMMING WITH TRADITION, COMMERCE AND COMMUNITY. MORE THAN A SEASONAL EVENT IT IS A DESTINATION. THE MARKET HAS ATTRACTED MORE THAN 1 MILLION VISITORS WITH NATIONAL MEDIA ATTENTION AND GENERATED MILLIONS IN TOURISM REVENUE FOR THE CITY.

NOW LET'S TALK ABOUT INVESTMENT. ACCORDING TO PUBLIC RECORD THE CITY HAS SPENT MORE THAN $2 MILLION ON ROUNDABOUT SCULPTURES. MANY WHICH ARE APPRECIATED BUT REMAIN PASSIVE STATIC DISPLAYS. THERE IS NO TICKET SOLD TO VIEW THEM, NO HOT COCOA LINE WRAPPED AROUND WITH NO FAMILY PHOTOS POSTED FROM THEIR BASES, THEY ARE LANDMARKS NOT ENGINES. IN CONTRACT THE CHRISTKINDLMARKT IS A LIVING ECONOMIC ENGINE , IT IT EMPLOYS HUNDREDS OF WORKERS, SUPPORTS DOZENS OF SMALL VENDORS AND ARTISANS INCREASE REVENUE FOR LOCAL HOTELS, RESTAURANTS AND RETAILERS. THE RETURN ON INVESTMENT IS NOT JUST MEASURABLE IT IS EXPONENTIAL. ACCORDING TO THE VISIT HAMILTON COUNTY THE MARKET GENERATES MILLIONS IN ECONOMIC ACTIVITY AND EVERY YEAR THOSE REVENUES GROW AND WHILE A SCULPTURE MAY ENGAGE ONE SENSE, THE CHRISTKINDLMARKT ENGAGES ALL FIVE, BUILDING COMMUNITY, IT BRINGS JOY AND OFFERS A SHARED CULTURAL EXPERIENCE THAT UNITES GENERATIONS, BACKGROUNDS AND NEIGHBORHOODS. YOU DON'T NEED A PASSPORT OR PLANE TICKET JUST A SCARF AND MITTENS AS YOU CONSIDER FUTURE BUDGETS AND STRATEGIC INVESTMENT I URGE YOU TO BE TRANSPARENT. I URGE YOU TO CONTINUE TO SUPPORT AND EVEN EXPAND SUPPORT FOR THE CHRISTKINDLMARKT LET'S INVEST IN EXPERIENCES THAT INVITE PEOPLE IN NOT JUST THE ART PEOPLE DRIVE AROUND. LET'S PRIORITIZE ECONOMIC ACTIVITY, COMMUNITY, CONNECTION AND AUTHENTIC CELEBRATION. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU, NEXT IS ROB BROWN, ON DECK IS ED SHAUGHNESSY.

>> DO I HAVE TO HOLD IT? OKAY. LAST FRIDAY I SPOKE AT THE AFFILIATE REVIEW MEETING. I OVERTLY PREPARED A STATEMENT BUT WAS ADVISED TO LISTEN TO THE MEETING FIRST AFTER WHICH I DECIDED TO ASK ALL PARTIES INVOLVED WITH THE CHRISTKINDLMARKT VIEW THE EVENT THROUGH THE LENS OF A COMMUNITY ASSET INSTEAD OF AS A FINANCIAL VEHICLE. THAT IS, I ASK SUCCESS BE QUANTIFIED IN TERMS OF INCREASED CIVIC PRIDE AND COMMUNITY MORALE , NOT DOLLARS AND CENTS. AFTER THE UNFORTUNATE RESIGNATION OF THE MARKET CEO I ASKED THAT THE SEARCH FOR A NEW LEADER BE OPEN AND TRANSPARENT. SINCE THAT TIME I'VE SPOKEN TO NO LESS THAN 20 DIFFERENT PEOPLE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, AT CLUB EVENTS, MY CHURCH ABOUT THE CHRISTKINDLMARKT AND RECENT UNCERTAINTY. THERE IS A PREVAILING NOTION THAT THE MARKET IS IN JEOPARDY AND NOBODY QUITE UNDERSTANDS HOW OR WHY.

PEOPLE ARE CONFUSED WHY THE MARKET WAS EVER SUBJECTED TO REVIEW IN THE FIRST PLACE WHILE OTHER NONPROFIT AFFILIATES HAVE LONG BEEN SUSPECTED OF MAYBE POTENTIAL AREAS OF IMPROPRIETY, THE MARKET NEVER SEEMED TO BE IN THE CATEGORY. IT HAD BEEN SUGGESTED IN THE MEDIA AND OTHER CHANNELS THAT THE REASON THE MARKET IS IN TURMOIL IS BECAUSE ITS PRESENCE HAS SIPHON NEEDED FUNDS FROM THE CITY THAT ARE NEEDED FOR POLICE AND FIRE. IF THAT IS THE CASE I WOULD KINDLY ASK THAT THE POWERS THAT BE, BE MORE SPECIFIC. WHAT IS IT THAT ÚOUR BRAVE POLICE AND FIREFIGHTERS NEED THAT THE CHRISTKINDLMARKT IS PREVENTING THEM FROM HAPPENING? IF SUCH NEED EXIST IS THERE NO OTHER WAY TO FUND SUCH EXPENSES THAN BY STRIPPING IT FROM THE CHRISTKINDLMARKT? THE MARKET IS SHROUDED IN NEGATIVITY PUTTING ITS EXISTENCE IN PERIL. I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY ALL INVOLVED WOULD WANT THE MARKET TO BE INDEPENDENT AND SELF-SUSTAINING, HOWEVER, I'M NOT SURE THIS IS THE BEST APPROACH. CITIES SPEND MONEY ON COMMUNITY AMENITIES AND EVENTS ALL THE TIME. MANY MAJOR CITIES INVEST IN COMMUNITY EVENTS PRIORITIZING THE JOY AND HAPPINESS OF CITIZENS. THE EFFORT TO SAVE A FEW BUCKS HAS CREATED AN ENVIRONMENT OF UNCERTAINTY PUTTING THE

[00:25:02]

SACRIFICED. >> THANK YOU, NEXT UP IS ED SHAUGHNESSY AND ON DECK IS SANDRA RICHARDSON.

>> OBVIOUSLY THE COUNCIL AND THE MAYOR HAVE STIRRED UP QUITE THE TOPIC HERE WITH THE CHRISTKINDLMARKT. I DO SUPPORT YOU LOOKING INTO THE AFFILIATE REVIEW. THIS ORGANIZATION, THE CHRISTKINDLMARKT IS A POPULAR ATTRACTION. NEVER BEEN THERE, BUT IT DOES NEED TO BE LOOKED AT, I BELIEVE, LIKE ANY OTHER BUSINESS. IF WE CAN FIND MORE EFFECTIVE WAYS TO DO IT, I SUPPORT THAT AND I APPRECIATE THE MAYOR'S WILLINGNESS TO TAKE THIS HEAT FROM THE COUNCIL. I DO BELIEVE THAT, IT'S HARD FOR ME TO IMAGINE THAT ONE PERSON HAVING THAT ONE MARKET THAT IS A SHORT-TERM EVENT WITH YEAR-LONG PLANNING CAN BE WORTHY OF SUCH A HIGH SALARY , THAT I BELIEVE EXCEEDS THAT OF THE MAYOR AND OTHER DEPARTMENTS WITHIN THE CITY. I SUPPORT YOUR WORK IN LOOKING AT THIS AND COMING UP WITH THE RIGHT ANSWERS. I DON'T BELIEVE THIS IS THE END OF THE MARKET OR IT IS DOOM AND GLOOM, I BELIEVE WE CAN RECOVER FROM THIS AND MAKE IT JUST AS GOOD OR

BETTER. >> THANK YOU, NEXT UP IS SANDRA RICHARDSON AND ON DECK AFTER THAT IS

>> SANDY RICHARDSON. GOOD EVENING CITY COUNCIL AND MAYOR.

ON OCTOBER 7 I CAME TO THIS BODY ASKING FOR HELP ADDRESSING SOME HARMFUL CONDUCT THAT MIGHT JEOPARDIZE CARMEL CHRISTKINDLMARKT. INSTEAD OF SUPPORT I GOT MILDLY LEGALLY THREATENING EMAILS AND RATHER THAN ADDRESSING THE POTENTIAL HARMFUL CONDUCT , CITY COUNCIL AND THE CITY FORMED A REVIEW COMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE CCI INSTEAD SO I AM STILL WAITING FOR A COUPLE ANSWERS. EIGHT MONTHS LATER THE HARM TO CCI, COMMUNITY AND PEOPLE INVOLVED ISRAEL. GERMAN-SPEAKING LEADERS HAD TO RESIGN, CONTRACTORS ARE HESITANT TO RENEW, SPONSORS ARE CAUTIOUS TO SIGN BACK ON. GERMAN ARTISANS ARE STAYING AWAY, CULTURAL AUTHENTICITY IS NO LONGER A PRIORITY AT THIS POINT AND MORE CUTS TO THE PROGRAM IS PROBABLY COMING. COUNCILMEMBERS, AS YOU CONTINUE YOUR WORK WITH THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH TO DISCUSS ALL THE NONPROFITS IN THE CITY I HOPE THAT NO OTHER CULTURAL GROUP WILL BE SILENCED AND INTENTIONALLY EXCLUDED FROM FINDING A COLLABORATIVE WAY FORWARD. I HOPE THAT NO OTHER CULTURAL LEADER WILL BE FORCED OUT OF THEIR ORGANIZATION ONLY TO BE REPLACED BY AGREEABLE LAWYERS WHILE THE CITY CLAIMS TO HONOR CULTURAL EXPERTISE. RIGHT NOW THE CULTURAL VALUE IN CARMEL SEEMS VERY CONDITIONAL. IT IS EMBRACED WHEN CONVENIENT AND COLORFUL FOR THE CITY'S IMAGE AND OUTRIGHT DISMISSED WHEN IT BECOMES CHALLENGING OR REQUIRES FUNDING. CHANGES HARD BUT IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE THIS CRUEL. IT SHOULD NEVER BE LEVERAGED TO DISCREDIT THE INTEGRITY OF COMMUNITY MEMBERS. IN CLOSING I WANT TO THANK MR. LOCKE FOR THOUGHTFUL DIALOGUE AND TOUGH QUESTIONS THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS. BUT ALL OF YOU HAVE A SERIOUS RESPONSIBILITY TO COURSE CORRECT THIS GOVERNMENT TRANSITION TOGETHER. PLEASE FIND A WAY TO MAKE SURE YOU RECEIVE PROPER COUNCIL BEFORE MAKING DECISIONS AND TO BRING BACK CHECKS AND BALANCES THAT GO BEYOND FISCAL MATTERS. THE PEOPLE IN CARMEL AND THEIR EFFORTS AND PASSIONS AND ORGANIZATIONS REALLY NEED YOU RIGHT NOW AND THEY NEED PROTECTION AS MUCH AS THE PUBLIC FUNDS. I KNOW BOTH CAN BE SAFEGUARDED, BUT NOT LIKE WHAT WENT DOWN THE LAST COUPLE MONTHS. I HAVE ADDITIONAL FEEDBACK FOR THE COMMITTEE.

DESPITE LEAVING CCI BECAUSE OF THIS I STILL CARE ABOUT THIS COMMUNITY AND I LOVE THIS AND I HOPE WE CAN ALL FIND A WAY TO

MOVE FORWARD. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU, NEXT UP IS MARIA ROSENFELD AND ON DECK IS OUR FINAL SPEAKER,

>> HELLO MY NAME IS MARIA ROSENFELD , THE FORMER CEO OF THE CARMEL CHRISTKINDLMARKT. AFTER SUBMITTING MY RESIGNATION LAST WEEK I HAVE BEEN ASKED COUNTLESS TIMES AS TO WHY I MADE

[00:30:05]

BRING THE FIRST. OH, I LOST IT. >> WE WILL STICK TO THE THREE MINUTES SO IF YOU WANT TO JUMP TO THE PORTION YOU WANT TO READ.

WE WILL BE STRICT ON THE THREE MINUTES.

>> THANK YOU, BY WAY OF EXAMPLE TO THE REASONS I LEFT LAST FALL I WAS EXCLUDED FROM DISCUSSIONS REGARDING THE TERMINATION OF TWO BOARD MEMBERS AND APPOINTMENT OF NEW BOARD MEMBERS. I KNEW NOTHING ABOUT THE CHANGES UNTIL AFTER IT HAPPENED. I WAS EXCLUDED FROM AND I KNEW NOTHING ABOUT THE BOARD MEETING IN WHICH THE CCI BOARD ADOPTED A NEW OPERATING AGREEMENT WITH THE CITY, THE NEW BOARD MEMBERS DID NOT CONSULT WITH ME REGARDING TERMS OF THE AGREEMENT BEFORE IT WAS SIGNED. EARLIER THIS YEAR WHEN WE BEGAN NEGOTIATION WITH THE CITY FOR AN AMENDED OPERATING AGREEMENT I PRESENTED SEVERAL THOUGHTFL RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE BOARD CHAIR, MANY WERE NOT EVEN PRESENTED TO SAMANTHA WITH THE CITY. SEVERAL OF MY CONCERNS ABOUT THE AGREEMENT WERE DISREGARDED. WHEN WE MET WITH CITY REPRESENTATIVE TO DISCUSS THE AMENDMENT MADDIE SPOKE FOR CCI AND I WAS LIMITED IN TERMS OF WHAT I WAS ALLOWED TO SAY.

ONCE AGAIN THE AMENDED AGREEMENT WAS SIGNED BY THE BOARD APRIL 16 BEFORE THE AFFILIATE REVIEW COMMITTEE MEETING REGARDING CCI WITHOUT MY INVOLVEMENT OR INPUT ON THE FINAL VERSION. WHEN THE AFFILIATE REVIEW COMMITTEE MET ON APRIL 16 FOR THE PURPOSE OF REVIEWING CITY RELATIONSHIP WITH CCI I WAS INSTRUCTED NOT TO

SPEAK AT THE MEETING. >> I APOLOGIZE WE HAVE TO GIVE EVERYONE THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME. NEXT IS

>> HI I AM OFF-THE-CUFF BECAUSE I DID NOT EXPECT TO SPEAK THIS EVENING SO THANK YOU FOR GIVING US THE CHANCE. I AM HERE AND HAD ONLY COME HERE TONIGHT IN SUPPORT OF MY LONGTIME FRIEND, SANDY RICHARDSON. BECAUSE I HAVE SEEN WHAT SHE AND OTHERS HAVE GONE THROUGH AND I WANTED TO SPEAK IN SUPPORT. I AM OPEN THE AFFILIATE REVIEW COMMITTEE CAN DO AN ACTUAL THOROUGH REVIEW INCLUDING INTERVIEWING ALL PARTIES INVOLVED WITH THE CARMEL CHRISTKINDLMARKT AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK YOU AS A COUNCIL SHOULD WANT. TO MAKE SURE SOMETHING IS THOROUGHLY INVESTIGATED IF THERE ARE CONCERNS. TO TALK TO EVERYBODY INVOLVED WITH THE MARKET. I HAVE LIVED HERE OVER 20 YEARS AND I LOVE THE CITY. ONE OF THE THINGS I LOVE ABOUT THE CITY IS THE MARKET FOR MY FAMILY, IT IS VERY DEAR MEMORIES FOR MY FAMILY THAT LIVES HERE AND FOR OUR EXTENDED FAMILY. I TRULY AM AFRAID WE MAY HAVE HAD OUR LAST MEMORIES AT THE MARKET. SO I JUST AM REALLY ASKING THE COMMITTEE, ASKING THE COUNCIL TO PLEASE DO A THOROUGH JOB, DO THE JOB THAT THE CITY THAT OUR GREAT CITY DESERVES TO SEE . MY LAST LITTLE BIT I WILL TALK ABOUT IS FOR ANY OF US OTHER MOMS IN THE ROOM WERE FRIENDS WITH SANDY, THERE WAS A LOT OF US DOING THE GROUNDWORK EARLY ON FOR THE MARKET.

GATHERING TOILET PAPER ROLLS, PAPER TOWEL ROLLS, CUTTING OUT CARDBOARD. A LOT OF US HERE DID THAT WORK BECAUSE WE BELIEVED IN THE MARKET AND WE BELIEVED IN THE LEADERS AND THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE HURTING BECAUSE OF THIS SO I AM ASKING YOU AGAIN TO DO AS THOROUGH OF AN INVESTIGATION AS YOU CAN AND

[00:35:02]

MAKE SURE IT IS DONE FAIRLY. >> THANK YOU, THAT IS OUR FINAL

[7. COUNCIL AND MAYORAL COMMENTS/OBSERVATIONS]

>> BRIEFLY, THANK YOU TO ALL OF YOU WHO PARTICIPATED WITH THE JAPANESE DELEGATION IN TOWN FROM THURSDAY THROUGH I THINK THIS MORNING OR LUNCH. THEY HAD A WONDERFUL TIME, THEY WERE IMPRESSED, LOVE THE LIBRARY, LOVED THE SCHOOL, LOVED THE CHERRY BLOSSOM FESTIVAL AND IT WAS A REALLY WONDERFUL RELATIONSHIP. I KNOW VARIOUS PEOPLE WERE INVOLVED AT VARIOUS TIMES BUT THANK YOU FOR YOUR INVESTMENT AND TIME.

>> COUNCIL QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? OKAY COUNSELOR SNYDER

AND THEN COUNSELOR GREEN. >> I'M GOING TO GO TO THE PODIUM.

>> YESTERDAY WE HAD THE PLEASURE OF CELEBRATING THE FIRST HOPEFULLY ANNUAL CHERRY BLOSSOM FESTIVAL. IT WAS AN AMAZING EVENT, I WAS BLOWN AWAY BY THE AMOUNT OF ATTENDEES, MAYOR, GREAT JOB, COUNCIL THANK YOU FOR THE SUPPORT. I HAVE NOT BEEN FULLY ENGAGED IN THE FESTIVAL, THE GARDEN HAS BEEN A PASSION PROJECT OF MINE MANY YEARS. I GAVE THE CLOSING SPEECH OF THE OFFICIAL SPEECHES AND AMONGST MANY OTHER THINGS I TALKED ABOUT DIVERSITY. DIVERSITY IS A WORD THAT GETS THROWN AROUND SO OFTEN NOW AND SOMETIMES POSITIVE SOMETIMES NEGATIVE. IN CARMEL IT HAS BEEN ORGANIC AND I THINK THAT'S INCREDIBLE BECAUSE IT HAS NOT BEEN FORCED. WE HAVE GROWN AS A LIKE-MINDED COMMUNITY INTO WHAT WE ARE TODAY AND PERHAPS THAT'S WHY WE ARE BLIND TO OTHER THINGS, BUT THIS CHERRY BLOSSOM FESTIVAL REALLY HIGHLIGHTED WHAT DIVERSITY MEANS IN THIS COMMUNITY. I DON'T MEAN TO WAX PHILOSOPHICAL ON IT BUT WE REALLY DO BETTER HEARING POINTS FROM ALL DIFFERENT VIEWS. AFTER I GAVE MY SPEECH, I HAD PARKED VERY FAR AWAY. I DO NOT WANT TO TAKE A NEARBY PARKING SPOT AND I WAS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE POND STANDING THERE AND IT WILL BE INFORMAL AND APOLOGIZE BUT SHANNON AND ANITA.

SHE SAID I WILL GIVE YOU A RIDE TO YOUR CAR. SO WE WALKED TO THE GARAGE AND GOT IN HER CAR AND WE WERE CHATTING. ABOUT 25 MINUTES WENT BY AND WE HAD HARDLY MOVED. I THINK WE HAD ON HALF OF AN I/O LENGTH. WE WERE HAVING GREAT CONVERSATION, BUT I MADE THE COMMENT, IF ANYTHING EVER HAPPENED IN THIS GARAGE WE ARE SCREWED. THERE WAS JUST NO MOVEMENT AND WITH THE FESTIVAL AND TRAFFIC, I GOT CONCERNED AND I WAS GOING TO BRING THIS UP, PROBABLY WOULD HAVE BROUGHT IT UP WHICH IS CHIEF ENGINEERING OR THE MAYOR, A CONCERN UNTIL ABOUT 10 MINUTES LATER WE WERE ROUNDING OR ME HAD MADE ONE LENGTH AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT CAUGHT MY EYE, BUT I SAID SOMEBODY NEEDS HELP. PULLOVER AND SHE DID, SHE PULLED STRAIGHT AND DID NOT HESITATE. GOT OUT OF THE CAR. WE TALK ABOUT GOOD SAMARITANS. THE HISTORICAL CONTEXT OF THE GOOD SAMARITAN BOTHERS ME BECAUSE IT DEALS WITH HATRED OF PEOPLE AMONGST EVERYBODY. I CHOOSE PROBABLY MORE TO RELY ON CALVIN'S INTERPRETATION OF IT THAT TALKS ABOUT HOW PEOPLE ARE NOT BORN MERELY FOR THEMSELVES, BUT MANKIND IS KNIT TOGETHER WITH A HOLY NOT AND WE MUST NOT LIVE FOR OURSELVES, BUT FOR OUR NEIGHBORS. WHAT I WITNESSED IN THIS PARKING GARAGE IS SOMETHING I WILL NEVER ON C AND I CANNOT

[00:40:02]

JOSHI WHO JUST JUMP IN , SHE GOT INVOLVED. THERE WAS ONE OTHER GOOD SAMARITAN , BUT THESE THREE PEOPLE WORKED ON THIS YOUNG MAN FOR ENTIRELY TOO LONG OF A TIME UNTIL THE FIRE DEPARTMENT COULD RESPOND. WHEN THEY FINALLY GOT THERE AND I COULD HEAR THE SIRENS, I FELT RELIEF BECAUSE THERE WAS NOTHING I COULD DO BUT WATCH THESE MIRACLE WORKERS TRY TO BRING THIS YOUNG MAN BACK TO LIFE. I TRIED CANCELING THE MOTHER AND FAILED EPICALLY AT THAT. ALL I COULD DO WAS STAND AND LISTEN TO THE FATHER SCREAM OVER AND OVER AGAIN TO HIS SON. GET UP, JUST GET UP. HEARING THE SIRENS GAVE ME HOPE , SEEING THE DEVICES THAT THIS COUNCIL AND OTHERS BEFORE US HAVE APPROVED, IN ACTION. WHETHER THE AEDS IN EVERY SINGLE POLICE CAR OR THE AUTOMATIC COMPRESSION TO BRYCE DEVICE IN ACTION AND THEN WHEN I SAW THE AMBULANCE PULL IN AND IT SMACKED THE GARAGE AND COULD NOT GET INTO THE GARAGE WAS VERY TROUBLESOME TO ME. THIS IS THE CRASH BAR PART OF WHAT IS LEFT THAT WAS JAMMED BETWEEN THE AMBULANCE AND THE ROOF OF THE GARAGE. NOW THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH OUR STRUCTURE , STATE CODE ALLOWS FOR A CERTAIN HEIGHT FOR CLEARANCE AND AMBULANCES ARE TYPICALLY THE SAME HEIGHT. BUT WE ARE CARMEL , INDIANA AND WE SHOULD EXPECT BETTER AND DEMAND BETTER. I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, WHAT CAN WE DO BETTER THAT DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND MONEY OR IT'S THE WAY WE DO IT BECAUSE I TRULY BELIEVE THAT A THOROUGH REVIEW OF PARKING GARAGES, AND UNDERSTAND THERE WILL BE PLENTY WE CANNOT GET A AMBULANCE TO EVERY SPOT, BUT WE AT LEAST NEED TO GET IT IN THE BUILDING TO A STAIRWELL WHERE THEY CAN GET TO PEOPLE THAT ARE HURT. I THINK ABOUT MYSELF IN CARMEL AS A KID THERE WERE NOT PARKING GARAGES BUT IF THERE WAS THAT'S WHERE I WOULD BE GETTING IN TROUBLE AND PROBABLY GETTING HURT AND PROBABLY WOULD NEED HELP. SO MY ASK AND MY POINT OF STANDING HERE IS I WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE FIREMEN BECAUSE WHEN THEY DID GET THERE, IT WAS LIKE OUT OF A TV SHOW, A WELL ORCHESTRATED AND SEAMLESS ALMOST EMERGENCY ROOM TYPESETTING. DR.

JOSHI , IT IS TRULY AN HONOR WATCHING YOU DO YOUR CRAFT. TO THE POLICE OFFICER AND THE GOOD SAMARITAN WHO CAN REST EASY EVEN KNOWING POLICE ARE TRAINED, AS WELL AND FIREFIGHTERS IN INITIAL RESPONSE. SO IF WE COULD I WOULD LIKE A REVIEW OF OUR GARAGES AND A THOROUGH REVIEW OF GARAGES WE APPROVE IN THE FUTURE TO ENSURE THINGS LIKE THIS DO NOT HAPPEN AGAIN AND WE REMAIN THE BEST AT EVERYTHING WE DO HERE IN CARMEL , INDIANA.

>> THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS. I KNOW IT'S NOT EASY TO TALK ABOUT. HAPPY TO DISCUSS HOW WE CAN DO THAT REVIEW AND IF THERE'S SOMETHING YOU NEED TO POINT OR CREATE SOMETHING LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT. I KNOW IT'S HARD TO FOLLOW THAT.

>> DR. JOSHI AND COUNSELOR SNYDER , THANK YOU FOR THE STORY AND THE WAY YOU PUT IT AND HOW EVERYBODY JUMPED IN AND DID WHAT THEY NEEDED TO DO TO HELP SOMEBODY. THANK YOU FOR THE STORY. NOTHING EMOTIONAL FROM ME. I WOULD LIKE TO THANK THE MAYOR AND STAFF FOR PUTTING ON THE BLOCK PARTY WHICH WAS SUNDAY AND THE DEDICATION OF THE ART AT ROUNDABOUT. IT WAS A NICE EVENT, GOOD TURNOUT AND I APPRECIATE THAT, SO THINK IT.

>> ANY OTHER COUNCIL COMMENTS? I ENJOYED THE CHERRY BLOSSOM

[00:45:08]

WORRY. >> YOU MADE A COMMENT ABOUT THE CHERRY BLOSSOM FESTIVAL AND IT IS THE COMMITTEE'S WORK AND STAFF WORK. KUDOS TO THEM FOR WORKING HARD TOGETHER.

>> THANK YOU. ANYTHING ELSE? WE WILL MOVE ON. NEXT, CONSENT

[8. CONSENT AGENDA]

[10.a. Finance, Utilities and Rules Committee]

>> WE HAVE NOT MET BUT THE NEXT MEETING WILL BE MAY 13 AT 6:00 P.M. IN COUNCIL CHAMBERS. WE HAVE SEVERAL ITEMS ON THE

[10.b. Land Use and Special Studies Committee]

AGENDA. >> THANK YOU, LAND-USE AND

SPECIAL STUDIES COMMITTEE? >> WE MET BY THE TIME WEDNESDAY FOLLOWING COUNCIL MEETING. THAT MEETING WAS TO DISCUSS ORDINANCE REGARDING FEES AND FEE STRUCTURE WITH A SUBSEQUENT ADMINISTRATIVE MEETING AND CONTINUING TO WORK ON THAT WITH INPUT FROM CITY DIRECTORS. IT HAS BEEN VERY PRODUCTIVE, WE ARE SENDING BACK

[11.a. Carmel Redevelopment Commission (Monthly)]

A COUPLE ITEMS. >> OKAY THANK YOU. OF THE REPORTS? CARMEL REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION MEETING. DIRECTOR.

>> CARMEL REDEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR. THERE IS NO MEETING LAST MONTH FROM TWO WEEKS AGO I WENT TO TRY TO GO THROUGH THIS RATHER QUICKLY SINCE WE JUST TALKED ABOUT IT A FEW WEEKS AGO.

SPOT WHILE THIS IS LOADING I KNOW YEARS AGO WE HAD THESE MORE FREQUENTLY ADDED FOR MORE UPDATES. I WANT TO KEEP IT ON THE AGENDA BUT IF WE HAVE DISCUSSION ABOUT WHETHER WE WANT MORE OF A Q&A SESSION WITH THE DIRECTOR OTHER THAN PRESENTATIONS WE CAN DISCUSS WHAT'S THE BEST WAY FOR THE COUNCIL TO RECEIVE UPDATES. WE WILL DO THE PRESENTATION IF YOU

HAVE IT. >> AS SOON AS IT POPS ON THE SCREEN.

I DON'T HAVE ANY JOKES TODAY. >> DIRECTOR, I'M GOING TO SAY IF WE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR YOU THIS WEEK AND YOU CAN SEND THE PRESENTATION LETTER LATER. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR

THE DIRECTOR? >> I WANTED TO SAY THANK YOU TO THE MAYOR. WE WILL CONTINUE TO WORK ON THE VETERANS TRAIL.

WORKING WITH THE DEVELOPMENT AT OLD MERIDIAN MAINE AND HOW THE VETERANS TRAIL WOULD INTERACT WITH THAT NEW PUBLIC PLAZA.

APPRECIATE YOUR EFFORTS MAKING SURE THAT IS A SEAMLESS INTERACTION AND KEEPING THE VETERANS IN MIND ON THE ITEMS ON

HOW THEY INTERACT. >> ALL RIGHT THE PRESENTATION IS

UP. >> THANK YOU. LOTS OF CONSTRUCTION ONGOING. LAST WEEK I TALKED ABOUT THIS PIECE OF ART IS FINAL WITH ALL THE PLAQUES RECOGNIZING THOSE MUSICIANS.

SQUARE NORTH UNDER CONSTRUCTION AND CONSTRUCTION ALONGSIDE THIS IS THE EXPANSION OF THE TRAIL. I WANT TO CALL OUT THE CIVIC SQUARE CONDOS ARE NOW UNDER CONSTRUCTION. 9033 LOUNGE CELEBRATED ITS GRAND OPENING ÚL CONTINUES TO BE UNDER CONSTRUCTION. THE PLAZA , NOW THE BUILDINGS ARE DEMOLISHED SO

[00:50:03]

PRESENTATION. >> THANK YOU, QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ? WE WILL LET YOU OFF EASY THIS WEEK.

[11.k. Affiliate Review Committee Update]

>> I WILL BE BACK. >> NEXT WE HAVE UNDER OTHER REPORTS UPDATED AFFILIATE REVIEW COMMITTEE. SO WE HAVE A PUBLIC COMMENT EARLIER THERE IS NO PUBLIC COMMENT TO THE SECTION UNLESS A COUNSELOR SPECIFICALLY ASKED THE QUESTION WE WANT TO KEEP THIS ORDERLY. SAME RULES, NO CHEERING OR BOOING. STARTING OFF WITH AN UPDATE FROM COUNSELOR LOCKE AND THE PROCESS AND AFTER THAT THE MAYOR CAN GIVE HER COMMENTS AND THEN WE

WILL GO TO THE COUNCIL. >> SURE. THANK YOU PUBLIC FOR BEING HERE AND EVERYBODY TUNING IT AT HOME. HELLO JAMES AND EDDIE IF YOU ARE WATCHING. WE MET ON THE AFFILIATE REVIEW COMMITTEE LAST WEEK. RATTED OUT THE INITIAL NEEDS OF THE INFORMATION BEING SHARED WITH THE AFFILIATE REVIEW WHICH WAS THE CITY PRESENTATION OF THE RELATIONSHIP TO THE PROCESS AND THEN THE STRUCTURES RELATED TO THE FOUR AFFILIATES ON THE FRONT END. DURING THOSE CONVERSATIONS WE HAD A LOT OF INFORMATION. I THINK IT HAS GIVEN US GOOD GUIDANCE AND TRANSPARENCY INTO THE UNDERSTANDING THAT NEW TRASPARENCY IS NOT EASY, IT TAKES TIME, EFFORT AND ENERGY TO TAKE THE NEW STANDS AND PUT IN NEW PRACTICES AND CHECKS AND BALANCES WITHIN A CITY GOVERNMENT TO ENSURE WE ARE GIVEN THE INFORMATION WE NEED.

AND THROUGH THE FIVE MINUTES WE HAVE HAD SO FAR WE HAVE SEEN NOTHING BUT A INFLUX TO COMMUNITY OUTREACH , INFORMATION RELATED TO THE INFORMATION SHARED IN THE OPEN SESSION. IT HAS GIVEN A LOT OF DIRECTION AND UNDERSTANDING FOR THINGS THAT WE AS A CITY AND COMMUNITY CAN DO TO ENSURE THE FUTURE OF THE CITY A STRONGER, BETTER, MORE EFFICIENT, MORE ACCESSIBLE, MORE PROTECTIVE OF THE THINGS WE CARE ABOUT. AT THE END OF THE PROCESS WITH THE AFFILIATE REVIEW THE INTENT WILL BE FOR COMMITTEE TO COME TOGETHER AND COME UP WITH RECOMMENDATIONS THAT CHANGE THE THINGS THAT I NEED TO CHANGE, SUPPORT THE THINGS THAT NEED TO BE SUPPORTED AND GIVE US TRANSPARENCY ON A ONGOING BASIS OF THE THINGS THAT MATTER TO US AS A COMMUNITY AS WE MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT THE THINGS THAT MATTER TO US AND CHILDREN AND THE FUTURE OF THE PLACE WE LIVE. SO TO THAT AS WE FINISH THE INITIAL RUN OF INFORMATION AGAIN COMING FROM THE CITY TO GET THE INFORMATION WE CAN TO ENSURE WE UNDERSTAND WHERE WE ARE, HOW WE AS A CITY INTERACT WITH AFFILIATES AND OTHER ENTITIES , THE DOOR IS OPEN, THE IDEA OF SHARING INFORMATION IF YOU HAVE THOUGHTS AND FEEDBACK IN CONVERSATIONS, IT IS A ONGOING AND ITERATIVE PROCESS TO RUN THE GOVERNMENT OF THE CITY. THE KEY FOR US, CAN WE TAKE FEEDBACK AND CREATE NEW CHECKS AND BALANCES, OVERSIGHT, NEW ABILITIES OF THIS BODY AND OTHER BODIES OF PUBLIC RECORDS AND PROCUREMENT OF ANYTHING RELATED TO THE OPERATIONS OF CITY GOVERNMENT TO MAKE SURE WE DON'T PUT OURSELVES IN SITUATIONS THAT WE DO NOT HAVE TO BE IN. THAT CONCEPT OF TRANSITION IS SOMETHING WE HAVE NOT HAD TO GRAPPLE WITH BEFORE. IT IS SOMETHING BUILT INTO SOCIETY AS AMERICANS FROM THE BEGINNING. OUR FIRST PRESIDENT IS KNOWN FOR NOT TAKING THE THIRD TERM BECAUSE OF FEAR OF KINGSHIP. NOT SAYING WE HAD A KING, WE ARE IN TOWN TO A CITY IN THE GROWTH OF THE COMMUNITY FROM 25,000 TO 105,000 PEOPLE TODAY IS SOMETHING THAT'S UNIMAGINABLY COMPLEX. WITH THAT COMES ALL THE JOY AND HONOR AND PRIVILEGES AND THE WONDERFUL MARKETS AND EVENTS AND THE NOT SO WONDERFUL THINGS BUT THE IDEA THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS SET UP IN A WAY THAT CAN ASSURE IF WE TAKE SOMETHING ON IT MAKES IT THROUGH THAT PRIMORDIAL ISSUE OF A TRANSITION THAT MATTERS SO MUCH TO OUR GOVERNMENT AS A WHOLE IS SOMETHING WE HAVE POWER OVER. AGAIN NOT SOMETHING WE HAVE REALLY GRAPPLED WITH . WE ARE GRAPPLING CLEARLY NOW IN OPEN SESSION WHICH IS A PRIVILEGE AND HONOR TO BE ABLE TO BE THAT TRANSPARENT AND TO WANT TO BE THAT TRANSPARENT ON ALL FRONTS.

AT THE END OF THIS THE GOAL IS TO CREATE A BETTER MORE PERFECT PLACE FOR AS LONG AS IT STAYS UNTIL WE NEED TO CHANGE AGAIN. I

[00:55:01]

THAT EFFORT ON ITS OWN IS A OBJECTIVE REVIEW OF THE WAY THE CITY INTERACTS WITH FUNDING SOURCES AND OTHER ENTITIES WE USED TO TAKE FUNDING SOURCES IN AS AN IMPORTANT STEP IN ENSURING THAT A FUTURE CITY THAT HAS 105,000 PEOPLE AND GROWING SOPHISTICATED ENOUGH TO HONOR THOSE THINGS WE STAND UP AND TO DO THEM APPROPRIATELY. WE DON'T HAVE THE NEXT MEETING SET BUT THAT WILL BE PUBLISHED BASED ON THE OPEN DOOR LAW. IF YOU HAVE FEEDBACK COMMENTS CONCERNS OR ISSUES OR ANYTHING YOU WANT US TO LOOK AT, WITH RECOMMENDATIONS FOR HOW TO DO IT BETTER WE ARE OPEN TO ALL OF THAT BECAUSE WE'RE DOING THIS TOGETHER AS A COMMUNITY. PLEASE KEEP IT COMING. I DO WANT TO THANK THE ADMINISTRATION FOR THEIR SHARED INFORMATION AND SUPPORT AND UNDERSTANDING OF WHERE WE ARE AND WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO IN THE FUTURE. I DO THINK AT THE END OF THIS WE WILL BE IN A MUCH BETTER SPOT TO ENSURE WE ARE DOING NOT ONLY THE FIDUCIARY NEEDS OF THE CITY BUT WE ARE SETTING UP TO BE ABLE TO DO THOSE OTHER THINGS THAT MAKE THIS THE BEST PLACE IN THE WORLD TO LIVE BUT WE WILL DO IT STRATEGICALLY WITH COMPASSION, WITH CARING, HONOR, WITH SUPPORT AND IF WE CAN'T WE WILL HAVE TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO DO IT THE NEXT TIME WHEN WE DO HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO THAT. I PERSONALLY HAVE FOUND A LOT OF MERIT IN WHAT WE HAVE DONE SO FAR. THAT BEING SAID I KNOW THERE'S MORE WE CAN DO SO PLEASE AGAIN DO NOT HESITATE TO SHARE INFORMATION.

AND WE WILL POST WHEN IT IS THERE.

>> THANK YOU. I WANT TO ADD ONE THING. WE HAD THE ADD-ON ITEM MAYBE SOME OF YOU HAD SEEN UP FRONT. THAT WON'T GET ADDED UNTIL THE END OF THE MEETING FOR OUR RULES. THAT WAS A ITEM THAT TIES INTO THIS. EVERYONE WILL GET ONE BITE BEFORE WE GO AROUND FOR A SECOND BITE. MAYOR DID YOU WANT TO MAKE A COMMENT AND THEN

COUNCIL COMMENTS. >> SURE, THANK YOU. A LITTLE BIT OF A SUMMARY KIND OF LIKE RYAN LED INTO AS WELL BECAUSE IT MIGHT BE PEOPLE THAT ARE NEW HERE TONIGHT FOLLOWING WORK WE'VE BEEN DOING. THE ADMINISTRATION AND CITY COUNCIL HAVE TRIED TO MAKE SENSE OF AND IMPROVE CITY INVOLVEMENT IN THE NONPROFIT AND PHILANTHROPIC RELATIONSHIPS. AND THE SCENES STAFF, VOLUNTEERS, BOARD MEMBERS HAVE SPENT HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF HOURS AND DOLLARS UNDERSTANDING GOVERNANCE AND FINANCIAL CONDITION FOR EACH RELATIONSHIP AND MAKE CHANGES OR SUGGESTIONS. IT IS CLEAR THE EVENTS HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL, CONNECTING RESIDENTS HELPING TO POSITION CARMEL AS ONE OF THE BEST PLACES TO LIVE AND WORK , PROBLEMS HAVE EXISTED WOULD GOVERNANCE DID NOT KEEP UP WITH GROWTH AND WE WERE NOT REVIEWED TO ENSURE ALIGNMENT WITH CHANGING GOALS. AS NONPROFITS AND EVENTS OF VARIOUS ECONOMIC STORMS FROM THE PANDEMIC TO GROWTH MANY CANNOT CONTINUE TO FUNCTION WITHOUT CITY SUPPORT.

THE FISCAL IMPACT IS TAKING A BIGGER TOLL ON THE OPERATIONS OF THE CITY. THE NUMBER OF EVENTS HAS GROWN IN CITY POPULATION AND MANAGEMENT OF THE EVENTS AND SUPPORTIVE NONPROFITS REQUIRE CITY RESOURCES. DURING BUDGET SESSIONS CITY COUNCIL IDENTIFIED COST FOR EVENT SOURCE RED ACROSS DEPARTMENTS THAT ARE HARD TO TRACK. WE HAVE WORKED TO PUT MANY ITEMS IN ONE BUDGET BUCKET MUCH MORE WORK REMAINS OF A MORE UNDERSTANDING TO BE TRANSPARENT.

WE TACKLE THE ENTITIES POSING THE GREATEST RISK TO TAXPAYERS PROMOTE CARMEL AND CHRISTKINDLMARKT. WE SAVE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS OF SUBSIDIES ON RENT, PRODUCTS AND CONTRACTS THAT TAXPAYERS WOULD BE ON THE HOOK FOR I'M NOT PLEASED WITH HOW THE WORK IS DIVIDING MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY WITH HURT FEELINGS AND CAST A SHADOW ON THE CITY, AFFILIATES AND IMPACTING PEOPLE. AS IS OFTEN REPEATED INSANITY IS DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND EXPECTING DIFFERENT RESULTS. I SUGGEST WE WORK TOGETHER TO DEFINE A NEW STRATEGY AND STRUCTURE TO MANAGE NONPROFIT RELATIONSHIPS PUBLIC SPACES AND EVENTS. IT IS CLEAR THE SYSTEM AND PROCESSES ARE NOT WORKING. TAXPAYERS DESERVE BEST EFFORTS TO COLLECTIVELY IMPROVE THEM. I'M PROPOSING CREATION OF A NEW NONPROFIT WITH COEQUAL GOVERNANCE SO BOTH THE LEGISLATIVE AND ADMINISTRATIVE BRANCH OF CITY GOVERNMENT ARE EQUALLY ON IN-LINE TO SOLVE

[01:00:03]

I'M WILLING AND READY TO WORK WITH THE CITY COUNCIL ON BEHALF OF THE VOTERS THAT PLACE US IN THESE TRUSTED POSITIONS. YOU CAN START NOW AND I HOPE YOU JOIN ME.

>> THANK YOU, COUNSELOR SNYDER. >> THANK YOU. AT THE LAST AFFILIATE REVIEW COMMITTEE MEETING I HAD REMARKS. I DID NOT READ THOSE BECAUSE I DID NOT THINK I COULD GET THEM THROUGH AND THE MEETING HAD A LIFE OF ITS OWN SO I'M GOING TO GIVE MY REMARKS TO SPEAK MY PIECE ABOUT WHAT I FEEL ABOUT THIS WHOLE THING. I AM USUALLY STRAIGHTFORWARD AND LOUD TONIGHT TWO TIMES YOU WILL GET TO HEAR ME SEE WHAT I BELIEVE IS COMPASSIONATE. JUST A REMINDER AS IF I WAS THERE THURSDAY NIGHT. IS A STAND BEFORE YOU TODAY MY HEART SWELLS WITH LOVE AND ADMIRATION FOR MY HOMETOWN. THIS PLACE WITHIN STREETS ICONIC BUILDINGS NEIGHBORHOODS AND PARKS AND MEMORIES HAS SHAPED WHO I AM AND EACH CORNER HOLDS A STORY, EACH FACE TELLS A TALE AND EACH MOMENT SPENT SINCE BEING BORN HERE IN 1983 IS A TREASURE I HOLD DEAR, WHEN WE GATHER AT THE CHRISTMAS MARKET WE SHOULD BE ENVELOPED IN THE WARMTH OF THE HOLIDAY SPIRIT. I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THE AIR IS FILLED WITH A SCENT OF CINNAMON AND PINE, THE TWEAKING LIGHT STANDS LIKE STARS AND LAUGHTER ECHOES AS FAMILIES COME TOGETHER. THE LATTER TWO ARE ACCURATE BUT THE SMELLS ARE CHEESE AND SAUSAGE. REALLY REALLY STRONG CHEESE. WHAT I FIND MOST BEAUTIFUL IS NOT JUST THE FESTIVE DECORATIONS OR JOYFUL MUSIC OR VARIOUS ACTIVITIES. IT'S THE SENSE OF COMMUNITY THAT CAPTURES THE ESSENCE OF THE SEASON. CHRISTMAS IN ITS MANY INTERPRETATIONS HAS A UNIQUE WAY OF BRINGING PEOPLE TOGETHER REGARDLESS OF BELIEFS OR BACKGROUNDS WE ALL SHARE COMMON THREAD, THE DESIRE FOR CONNECTION, JOY AND CELEBRATION. THIS MARKET IS A TESTAMENT TO UNITY. A SPACE WHERE WE CAN SET ASIDE DIFFERENCES AND EMBRACE THE SPIRIT OF TOGETHERNESS. NOT DEFINED BY FAITH OR TRADITIONS BUT BY SHARED HUMANITY. THERE ARE MANY SKILL SETS, I AM NOT

[01:05:05]

THERE ARE MANY SKILL SETS THAT I DO EXCEL AT AND ARE VERY PROUD OF THE HARD WORK THAT ALLOWED ME TO ACHIEVE THOSE. NEITHER OF THOSE STATEMENTS DO I BELIEVE DEFINE MY DRIVE RATHER PEOPLE OF CARMEL LOOK AT ME AS A PUBLIC SERVANT. I LOVE CARMEL . AFTER MY CREATOR AND FAMILY, NOTHING ELSE COMES CLOSE TO THE PASSION I HAVE FOR MY HOMETOWN AND OUR COMMUNITY. WHAT THIS TRULY MEANS IS I LOVE EACH AND EVERY MEMBER OF THIS COMMUNITY. WHICH INCLUDES EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THIS ROOM. IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE TO ME WHETHER AN INDIVIDUAL APPRECIATES WHAT I'VE DONE OR THEY WOULD RATHER SEE ME WALK OFF A CLIFF BECAUSE I TRULY WANT TO SEE THE BEST COME OUT OF EVERY RESIDENT. YOU HAVE HEARD ME SAY WE ARE CITY OF CHAMPIONS AND IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN THAT WE ALL NEED TO STRIVE THE BEST VERSIONS OF OURSELVES. LAST WEEK I HAD A LADY UPSET WITH ME . SHE ASKED AND CALLED FOR MY IMPEACHMENT. THEN SHE ASKED IF I COULD BE IMPEACHED. I ABSOLUTELY LOVE HER FOR THAT. I HAVE BEEN DOING LEGAL RESEARCH TO FIND OUT IF I COULD BE AND WE KIND OF WHETHER THE PROCESS TOGETHER.

THIS CONTINUED INTERACTION RESULTED IN DEEPER CONVERSATIONS ABOUT WHAT WAS REALLY THE CRUX OF THE ISSUE AND I BELIEVE WORKED TO OBTAIN A BETTER RESULT. HUMILITY. I SHARE THIS ANECDOTE BECAUSE I HAD TO STEP BACK AND ANALYZE THE ISSUE. IF THE CITY WERE DOING WHAT WAS TRULY IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE COMMUNITY, I HAD TO BE HUMBLE ENOUGH TO ADMIT MISTAKES THAT WERE MADE ALONG THE WAY AND GOVERNMENT AND GOVERNMENT CONSULTANTS ARE NOT ALWAYS THE EXPERTS. IT IS THAT TYPE OF INTROSPECTION THAT GIVES ME THE ABILITY TO ADMIT WHEN I'M WRONG AND RESET IN AN EFFORT TO ENSURE I AM ALWAYS LOOKING OUT FOR THE PEOPLE I LOVE WHICH IS THE PEOPLE OF CARMEL. HAVE BEEN A STRONG CRITIC OF THE ONE THAT HAS GONE INTO THE CHRISTMAS MARKET. DURING THE LAST YEAR BUDGET HEARINGS EARLY ON I WAS A PROPONENT OF REDUCING THE FUNDS DRASTICALLY FOR THE 25 -26 MARKET. I HAD A LONG CONVERSATION WITH MURRAY ABOUT THIS AND WAS NOT BASHFUL ABOUT MY STANCE AT ALL. TO MARIA'S CREDIT, SHE WAS NOT UPSET EITHER. HER INITIAL RESPONSE WAS I DON'T COMPLETELY DISAGREE WITH YOU. I LEARNED A NUMBER OF THINGS SHE HAD DONE TO BEGIN TO IMPLEMENT OR REMOVE THAT DID NOT IMPACT THE OVERALL EXPERIENCE OF THE MARKET. HER EXACT WORDS WERE TO ME, MATT, IF YOU GUYS CAN LEAVE US ALONE THIS YEAR AND LET US MAKE THE NEEDED CHANGES WE WILL NOT NEED YOU NEXT YEAR PLUS WE CAN COME UP WITH A REIMBURSEMENT SCHEDULE FOR THE STREET DEPARTMENT. LABOR HOURS. I FELT THAT WAS EXTREMELY FAIR AND BASED ON STRATEGIES AND REDUCTION I DID NOT DOUBT HER.

THIS WAS THE LAST TIME I WAS ENGAGED WITH MARKET CONVERSATIONS. EVEN WHEN THINGS BLEW UP BEFORE THE MARKET OPENED. FOR ONCE I REMAINED SILENT, I KEPT MY OPINIONS TO MYSELF AND THEN THERE WERE DISCUSSIONS OF INVESTIGATION AND I REMAINED DISINTERESTED BECAUSE I DO NOT SEE THE BENEFIT OF PUTTING THIS MARKET OR MY BELOVED COMMUNITY THROUGH THE RINGER. MY NEXT TOUCH POINT WITH THE MARKET WAS WHEN I TRY TO STRUCTURE A COMPROMISE AND NEGOTIATE WHAT THE AFFILIATE REVIEW COMMITTEE WAS TO BE. I WANTED A FRESH LOOK AT ALL OF OUR NON-PROFITS TO ENSURE MISSTEPS MADE WITH THE MARKET COULD BE CORRECTED ELSEWHERE. I WAS ALSO TASKED WITH TWO OTHER COUNCILMEMBERS WITH SELECTING MEMBERS OF THE REVIEW COMMITTEE.

I HAVE ZERO REGRETS FOR WHOM WE SELECTED AND THINK THEY DID A FANTASTIC JOB. AS CHANGES CONTINUE TO BE MADE AND THE MARKET AND COMMITTEE BEGAN MY LEVEL OF CONCERN BEGAN TO GROW .

HAVE CONTINUED TO REMAIN SILENT AND HAVE NOT MADE COMMENTS TO THE MEDIA, HAVE NOT COMMENTED IN DISCUSSIONS I HAVE REMAINED OUT OF IT UNLESS DIRECTLY ASKED. THE LEVEL OF FRUSTRATION AND DISAPPOINTMENT FESTERING HAS RAISED TO THE SURFACE. I DID NOT

[01:10:04]

IT WOULD BE A GOOD START. IT NEEDS A LOT OF VETTING AND COULD BE SOMETHING. IN THE SHORT TERM IT'S GOING TO TAKE THE HUMANITY FROM ALL OF US. I WILL SUPPORT WHATEVER DIRECTION THIS NEEDS TO GO BUT I WILL NOT PARTICIPATE IN A KANGAROO COURT WHICH I AM

[01:15:03]

I WANT TO ENJOY THE LOCAL AND GERMAN ARTISANS PROBABLY DESPAIRING AND MADE CRASS WITH EACH PIECE IMBUED WITH LOVE AND DEDICATION. I WANT TO SMELL THE AROMAS FROM THE FOOD HUTS REMINDS ME OF THE SIMPLE PLEASURES IN LIFE AND TO HEAR CHILDREN'S LAUGHTER IN THE AIR AS THEY MARVEL AT THE TREE, THE TOWER, THE NEIGHBORS HELPING NEIGHBORS, STRANGERS BECOMING FRIENDS AND COMMUNITY BONDS STRENGTHENING. THE MARKET SHOULD BE A REMINDER THE GREATEST GIFTS WE CAN OFFER AT CHRISTMAS TIME AND THROUGHOUT THE YEAR ARE KINDNESS, COMPASSION AND UNDERSTANDING.

CHRISTMAS IS NOT JUST A HOLIDAY, IT IS A CELEBRATION OF LOVE THAT TRANSCENDS RELIGION AND BOUNDARIES INVITING EVERYONE INTO THE WARMTH OF ITS EMBRACE SO I WOULD CHALLENGE US HERE ON THE DAIS AND THE MAYOR AND THE PUBLIC TO FIND A WAY TO BETTER SUPPORT ONE ANOTHER, TO CELEBRATE CONTINUED DIVERSITY CULTURALLY OF THOUGHT AND RELIGION AND TO CHERISH THE BEAUTY OF MY HOMETOWN AND OUR COMMUNITY. THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME GET THIS OFF MY CHEST. I HOPE WE CAN COME TO SOME SORT OF RESOLUTION SOON THAT PUTS THE MAGIC BACK IN THIS MARKET.

>> THANK YOU. COUNSELOR GREEN. >> I DID NOT HAVE A PREPARED SPEECH FOR THIS. SO I MADE SOME NOTES. I AGREE WITH MOST OF EVERYTHING THAT YOU SAID. YOU KNOW, YOU PUT A LOT OF THOUGHT INTO THAT SPEECH. WOULD HAVE LOVED TO HEAR IT DURING THE AFFILIATE REVIEW COMMITTEE BUT WE WERE LIMITED TO THREE MINUTES. I DO DISAGREE ON A FEW POINTS. I BELIEVE THE CHRISTKINDLMARKT CAN BE BETTER THAN EVER, BIGGER THAN EVER AND I BELIEVE CITY COUNCIL AND MAYOR WORK ON IT AND FIND OUT THE SOLUTION. WE CAN BRING THE MAGIC BACK AND WE CAN BRING MAGIC TO FUTURE FESTIVALS YET TO BE NAMED. SO I DISAGREE IN THAT, I HAVE FAITH IN THE WORK, I WAS TALKING TO SHANNON AND SHE WENT TO 500 SOME DOCUMENTS PREPARING. THE WORK THE THREE OF THEM DID WAY TOO MUCH WORK MORE THAN ANYBODY ANTICIPATED. I BELIEVE RYAN TRENTON HAS DONE A GREAT JOB MANAGING ALONG WITH SHARON, TERESA AND OTHER MEMBERS. I WOULD LIKE TO LET THEM FINISH IT OUT TO SEE WHAT RECOMMENDATIONS THEY HAVE TO COME BACK TO THE FULL CITY COUNCIL TO SEE IF THERE'S ANYTHING WORTHY OF TAKING ACTION. LASTLY , EXPERIENCE CARMEL. I WOULD LIKE TO LEARN MORE OF THAT. THAT COULD BE A MECHANISM, SHARED BETWEEN CITY COUNCIL AND THE MAYOR ON MANAGING THE NONPROFITS SO WE DON'T GET INTO SITUATION WITH A LACK OF OVERSIGHT OR ACCOUNTABILITY OR A LACK OF TRANSPARENCY. AND PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING OUT SPENDING MONEY THEY SHOULDN'T BE SPENDING OR MAKING DECISIONS TOO FAST I'M NOT DOING COMPLETE DUE DILIGENCE.

THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT.

>> MINNAAR. >> FIRST ALLY WANT TO SAY THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO SPOKE. YOUR WORDS RESONATE. I AGREE WITH THE THINGS THAT MATT SAID AND I AGREE WITH THE THINGS TONY SAID.

THE COUNSELORS HERE AND I WANT TO REITERATE THAT I SAID IT ON THE DAIS AND BECAUSE THAT MEETING WENT LONG I'M NOT SURE IT WOULD HURT MY WORDS AND WANT TO REITERATE FEELINGS I HAD ABOUT THIS AFFILIATE REVIEW COMMITTEE. MY BELIEF WAS WE WERE GOING TO DO EXACTLY WHAT COUNSELOR LOCKE SAID. TO HIS

[01:20:07]

ME AS WELL. >> COUNCILOR JOSHI.

>> I WANT TO THANK EVERYBODY FOR COMING THIS EVENING. WE ARE AN AMAZING COMMUNITY. I AGREE WITH SO MUCH OF WHAT HAS BEEN SAID UP HERE BUT THE MAIN THING WE HAVE TO REMEMBER IS THAT, THE MARKET IS MAGIC AND BEAUTIFUL. EVERYONE OF US HAS ENJOYED THAT, MOST OF US IN THIS ROOM , I SHOULDN'T SAY ALL OF US. ONE GENTLEMAN SAID HE HAD NOT BEEN THERE. MANY OF US ENJOY IT EVERY YEAR WE MAKE MEMORIES AND WE LOVE IT. IT IS A FESTIVAL THAT REACHES ACROSS ALL CULTURES AS ALL GOOD FESTIVALS SHOULD. WE NEED A PROCESS THAT ENSURES THAT ALL PEOPLE ARE HEARD, THAT THE COMMUNITY DECIDES WHAT IT WANTS TO SEE AND WE DO THAT WITH A WORD THAT GETS ALL THE TIME TRANSPARENCY, THAT WORD HAS A REAL MEANING AND IT MEANS WE HAVE TO LISTEN TO EACH OTHER AND WE HAVE TO HAVE PROPER PROCESSES FOR WHATEVER WE PUT FORWARD SO THAT WE DO ACTUALLY JUST RE-CREATE SOMETHING ELSE THAT ENDS UP IN THE SAME POSITION AS THIS BECAUSE THE APPOINTMENTS AND THE NOMINATIONS AND THE PEOPLE THAT ARE PUT ON TO SERVE ON THESE COMMITTEES ARE NOT APPROPRIATELY VETTED OR BY THE PUBLIC, AS WELL AND THEY ARE NOT FORCED TO SHOW CREDENTIALS AND ALL THE THINGS THAT ARE NEEDED SO THEY CAN BE PUT IN THESE POSITIONS. I DON'T SAY THAT TO SAY THE PEOPLE WHO WERE ON THE BOARD AT THE MARKET WERE NOT. IN FACT I BELIEVE THEY WERE BUT I DO THINK THAT THOSE PROCESSES HAVE TO BE INSURED BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE DON'T KNOW. IF WE DO ASK THE RIGHT QUESTIONS ARE PUT PROPER PROCESSES IN PLACE WE WILL BE EXACTLY WHERE WE ARE WITH ANOTHER EVENT, ANOTHER ISSUE , ANOTHER SYSTEM SO WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE ACTUAL SYSTEM AND FIX IT. THAT'S ALL I

WILL SAY ABOUT THAT. >> THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT IF I GO NEXT? I THINK THERE IS SOME GOOD CONVERSATION HERE. I HAVE , A YEAR BACK IN OCTOBER WHEN THIS WAS HAPPENING WHEN THE BOARD , THE PREVIOUS BOARD APPOINTED WAS DISMISSED AND A NEW BOARD WAS PUT IN PLACE PEOPLE WERE FILLING THE COUNCIL MEETING ASKING QUESTIONS. I DID NOT WRITE DOWN ANY COMMENTS SO IF I RAMBLE I APOLOGIZE. PEOPLE WERE ASKING ABOUT DOING AN INVESTIGATION TO FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENED. AND I WAS OPEN TO IT, BUT I BACKED OFF THE IDEA BECAUSE I THOUGHT THIS COMPROMISE THE AFFILIATE REVIEW COMMITTEE WOULD BE GOOD WAY TO GET TO THE TRUTH AND NOT HAVE SO MANY QUESTIONS. HERE WE ARE HALF A YEAR LATER AND I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS. MORE QUESTIONS COMING OUT. I DO NOT FAULT COUNCILOR LOCKE, YOU'VE DONE A GREAT JOB . HAVE BEEN GIVEN AN IMPOSSIBLE TASK. THE MEETINGS HAVE BEEN RUN BY OUTSIDE LEGAL WHO IS NOT APPROVED BY THE COMMITTEE AND ACCORDING TO OUR CLAIMS HAVE COST THE CITY HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS. WE TALK ABOUT HOW WE RECOUPED $250,000 BY ASKING THE MARKET TO REIMBURSE US. WE SPENT MORE THAN THAT IN LEGAL FEES SO FAR AND WE

[01:25:02]

THAT'S NOT A GOOD FEELING. I WATCHED THE APRIL 16 MEETING I WAS NOT THERE IT WAS MY BIRTHDAY I WAS CELEBRATING. I WAS DISAPPOINTED BY HOW ONE-SIDED IT WAS. I HAD SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT COMPENSATION FOR THE CEO. WHY THE SELLERS AND STAFF HAVE GONE UP AND I WANTED QUESTIONS ANSWERED BUT WHEN WE ONLY HAD ONE SIDE OF THE STORY AND WE DID NOT HEAR ANY RESPONSE ON WHY THESE THINGS WERE HAPPENING, I DON'T FEEL I CAN GIVE ANYONE AN ANSWER AND THAT FRUSTRATES ME AS A CITY COUNSELOR. WE HAVE ONE OF THE BEST CHRISTKINDLMARKT IN THE COUNTRY, IT HAS BEEN RANKED THAT ACCORDING TO STUDIES AND POLLS. I DID NOT SEE WHY WE NEEDED TO MESS WITH IT. WHERE WE TRYING TO CHANGE THINGS THAT ARE WORKING? MARIA HAS SAID SHE WOULD BE WILLING TO REIMBURSE THE CITY MORE ACCORDING TO SNYDER WHICH I THINK THE CITY SHOULD BE REIMBURSED BUT I POINT OUT THE HISTORY DEPARTMENT IS THE ONLY ONE ALLOWED TO SET UP THE HUTS BECAUSE THE CITY OWNS THE HUTS, CHRISTKINDLMARKT CANNOT GO TO OUTSIDE VENDOR AND SAY CAN YOU SET THESE UP AT A LOWER PRICE? THEY DON'T CONTROL THE COST, THE COST IS CONTROLLED BY CITY HALL AND THEN TOLD HOW MUCH TO REIMBURSE. BY THE WAY THE REIMBURSEMENT IS FOR MAN-HOUR SPENT ON THE STREET DEPARTMENT SETTING UP. IT'S NOT LIKE WE ARE BRINGING IN EXTRA STAFF TO SET THIS UP, THESE ARE PEOPLE EMPLOYED, WE HAVE ASKED TO THEM DURING THE WINTER MONTHS CAN YOU SET UP THE MARKET AND SET THIS UP? AND AGAIN SHE'S GOING TO REIMBURSE. I DON'T FEEL I HAVE ALL THESE ANSWERS AND I APPRECIATE THE PROPOSAL THE MAYOR HAS FOR CREATING A NEW BOARD. THAT WAS BROUGHT TO US AT 3:00 TODAY. THIS WAS A GREAT IDEA THIS WOULD BE BROUGHT AFTER THIS ADD ON ITEM THEN SUDDENLY THERE WAS A NEW PROPOSAL BROUGHT TO THE COUNCIL AND TOLD LET'S CONSIDER THAT INSTEAD AND I WOULD LIKE TO CONSIDER WITH THE ADD ON ITEM WE HAVE LATER IN THE AGENDA THAT GIVES CITY COUNCIL APPOINTMENT TO THE BOARDS BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE APPOINTMENT ON THE CHRISTKINDLMARKT BOARD, THE MAYOR GETS EVERY APPOINTMENT. SO I DON'T KNOW. I AM FRUSTRATED BECAUSE I'M TRYING TO DO MY JOB AS COUNCIL PRESIDENT. PEOPLE CALL AND ASK QUESTIONS AND HAVE TO SAY I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER, TALK TO THE MAYOR, I ASKED THE MAYOR, I DON'T SEEM TO GET AN ANSWER. FRANKLY, WE ARE AT A PART WHERE TRUST IS AFFECTED AND I THINK TRUST CAN BE REBUILT AND IF WE ARE MOVING FORWARD, WE'VE GOT TO DO THIS IN A WAY THAT BUILDS TRUST BETWEEN THE BOARD, CHRISTKINDLMARKT BOARD AND THE MAYOR AND THE COUNCIL BETWEEN THE MAYOR AND COUNCIL. FRANKLY ALL OF US IN THE PUBLIC. IF YOU LOSE PUBLIC TRUST, THAT IS ONE OF THE WORST THINGS THAT CAN HAPPEN. I DO HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE BOARD ITSELF BROUGHT UP IN THE CURRENT AND CARMEL AND AT THE COMMITTEE THAT WE HAVE THE CFO OF THE CITY DIRECTING TO REPORT TO THE MAYOR ON THE BOARD AND WE HAVE SOMEONE WHO IS ON THE HIERARCHY UNDERNEATH THE PERSON WHO PROVIDED THE INVESTIGATION. WHERE THESE BOARD MEMBERS, I DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO QUESTION AND CALL CONFLICT OF INTEREST. LET'S FIND PEOPLE WHO CANNOT BE ACCUSED AND CAN DO A THOROUGH LOOK INTO WHAT HAPPENED AND HOW DO WE MOVE FORWARD? FINALLY AS WE TALK ABOUT CONVERSATIONS, I AM INFORMED THE CHRISTKINDLMARKT WILL CONTINUE WITH IT SEARCH FOR THE NEXT STEPS AS WELL THEY SHOULD. WE JUST KEEP MOVING AND MOVING WITHOUT CONSULTING THE COUNCIL OR TALKING TO US UNTIL WE HAVE THESE ACTIONS. SO THEY WILL PROBABLY BE A SEARCH FOR A NEW DIRECTOR SOON. I WOULD ASK THEY PAUSE THAT UNTIL WE LOOK TO SEE

[01:30:01]

WORRELL? >> SURE, I WILL GO NEXT. I WAS NOT ONE OF THE ONES YOU REACHED OUT TO BUT I WAS CAUGHT BY SURPRISE WHEN I HEARD ABOUT YOUR IDEA SO I CANNOT SPEAK TO THAT TONIGHT. AND I WISH I COULD PAINT THE CHRISTMAS MARKET PICTURE THAT MATT DID. MANY PEOPLE TALK ABOUT WHERE ARE WE AND WHEN I LOOK BACK AT WHERE WE ARE REGARDING THE CARMEL CHRISTKINDLMARKT , WE ARE NOW WITHOUT THE NUMBER ONE CEO IN THE COUNTRY . WE HAVE A COMMUNITY THAT APPEARS TO BE DIVIDED. BY THE WAY, THAT CEO IS A MEMBER OF THE COMMUNITY AND A CONSTITUENT. WE HAVE BOARD MEMBERS, WHO I THINK WERE TREATED POORLY. WE HAVE A BOARD NOW THAT HAS NO NONPROFIT EXPERIENCE THAT I CAN FIND ON THEIR RESUME AND WE LOST A BOARD WITH OVER 100 YEARS OF NONPROFIT EXPERIENCE. THE THING THAT IS MOST DISTURBING TO ME IS THAT I HAVE FOUND , AND FRANKLY RESIDENTS HAVE REPORTED INACCURACIES AND MISSED STATEMENTS FROM THE EXPORTS THAT WE ARE PAYING TO GIVE US A REPORT. AND IT ALL STARTED WITH AN EXECUTIVE SESSION WHICH I'M NOT ALLOWED TO TALK ABOUT, BUT WHEN THERE WAS A REMARK MADE ABOUT MONEY THAT WAS UNACCOUNTED FOR, SEVERAL PEOPLE , THAT STARTED THIS, THERE WAS A NARRATIVE. INACCURATE INFORMATION REPORTED ON THE 16TH. I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE TIME TO GO THROUGH IT. I UNDERSTAND COUNCILOR LOCKE YOU WANT TO KEEP THE COMMITTEE GOING BECAUSE YOU ARE LOOKING AT FUTURE AND OTHER NONPROFITS, THAT'S FINE. I'M NOT GOING TO ARGUE THAT. BUT I SENT YOU HAVE GONE AS FAR AS YOU CAN REGARDING THE CHRISTKINDLMARKT AND THE CHRISTKINDLMARKT IS THE ONE I FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT RIGHT NOW AND THE ONE I WANT TO SPEAK ABOUT. I DO WANT TO THANK COUNCILOR LOCKE, AYERS AND MINNAAR FOR YOUR TIME . I KNOW IT TOOK A LOT OF TIME AND WHAT I SUGGEST I HOPE COUNSELOR SNYDER WILL NOT BE MET BECAUSE IT WILL MEAN A LITTLE BIT OF TIME FOR US. MY WHOLE POINT AND WHAT I HAVE SAID FROM THE VERY BEGINNING AND FRANKLY MAYOR, FOLLOWING YOUR LEAD WILL YOU DO THE INVESTIGATION OF THE HOTEL CARMICHAEL, THERE ARE TWO SIDES TO EVERYTHING. EVERYBODY HAS GOT A STORY. WHY DID THIS HAPPEN? WHY DID THAT HAPPEN? WHAT I LEARNED, WE HAVE NOW DONE SEVERAL TIMES, YOU HAVE TO GET ALL THE INFORMATION OUT THERE. AND IT BE VIEWED AS IT IS HONEST AND OPEN AND FAIR. MAY NOT LIKE IT, THERE IS ALWAYS GOOD AND ALWAYS BAD BUT YOU GET IT OUT ON THE TABLE. THEN YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT AND SAY YES, IT IS WHAT IT IS, LIKE THE WAY THAT WENT AND THEN WENT TO LOOK FOR WAYS TO IMPROVE, WAYS TO MAKE THINGS BETTER. I HEAR THE TERM BEST PRACTICE ALL THE TIME AND THE MOST CRITICAL POINT IS WHEN EVERYBODY HAS ACCEPTED WHAT HAS HAPPENED, MOVE FORWARD IN THE BEST INTEREST OF OUR COMMUNITY.

THAT IS WHY I ORIGINALLY PROPOSED THE INVESTIGATION BACK IN OCTOBER AND NOVEMBER. I REACHED OUT TO MAYOR FINKAM AND TO YOUR CREDIT YOU TOOK MY CALL AND YOU WERE WILLING TO DISCUSS , NOT AN INVESTIGATION, BUT THIS REVIEW PROCESS AND I APPRECIATE THAT. IT IS NOT THAT I ENVISIONED BUT I DO APPRECIATE THAT AND I THINK WE HAVE MADE GOOD PROGRESS. OUR COMMUNITY IS CERTAINLY VERY WELL-INFORMED NOW. AS I SEE IT, IN ORDER TO

[01:35:01]

>> WE HAVE A MOTION. WILL HAVE TIME FOR DEBATE ON THE MOTION , BEFORE WE HAVE CONVERSATION DO WE HAVE A SECOND? WE HAVE A MOTION AND SECOND. NOW WE WILL OPEN UP TO ANY COUNCIL DEBATE WHERE MAYOR FINKAM WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A COMMENT.

>> THE REGAL. I WOULD LIKE TWO MY, BECAUSE I HEAR CONCERNS ABOUT WHAT TYPES OF INFORMATION WAS COVERED IN THE REVIEW PROCESS, THAT'S WHAT WE NEGOTIATED PUT INTO THE ORDINANCE OR RESOLUTION AND THAT WAS GOVERNANCE, THE FINANCIAL STATUS, OUTCOME, THE DOLLARS AND EXECUTIVE CONVERSATION. I KEEP HEARING I WANTED A SAY ABOUT WHY AND ABOUT THE OPERATIONS, THAT WAS NOT IN THE SCOPE OF REVIEW SO THAT WOULD BE OUTSIDE WHAT WE NEGOTIATED FOR THE PHILLY REVIEW PROCESS. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT CRYSTAL-CLEAR THAT'S WHY WE DID NOT HAVE A NARRATIVE ABOUT WHY THE FINANCIALS, WHY THAT WAS THE BUDGET THAT WAS NOT INCLUDED IN THAT. FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH I WANT TO BE CLEAR ON THAT WE DID NOT GO TO THE OPERATIONS AS MUCH AS THAT'S NOT WHAT THE PROCESS WAS.

>> COUNCILOR WORRELL. >> THANK YOU FOR THE CLARIFICATION. I GUESS WHAT I WAS THINKING, IT MAY HAVE BEEN NEGOTIATION, YOU SENT ME RESOLUTION AND IT WAS DONE, SO I GUESS WHAT I WANT TO ASK IS I THOUGHT BOTH SIDES AS YOU SAID THIS, THIS, THIS, SALARY AND ALL THESE THINGS AND THERE IS NO CHANCE TO EXPLAIN IN WHAT CONTEXT, WHY WERE THOSE DECISIONS MADE? WHY WAS THERE A DEFICIT IN THE 2020 FOR OPERATING? THIS, THIS AND THIS HAPPEN. AS YOU KNOW I WENT TO THE BOARD MEETING AND I HEARD FROM THE EXPLANATION, FROM THE CFO THAT MADE A TON OF SENSE BUT THAT DID NOT COME OUT IN THE AFFILIATE REVIEW. THOSE KINDS OF THINGS, COMPARING COMPARING TO THE GREAT AMERICAN SONGBOOK FOUNDATION. CEO MAKING $86,000 FLASHING THAT ON THE SCREEN TO MAKE OUR CHRISTKINDLMARKT , IN MY OPINION TWO THAT LOOK BAD AS A CONTRAST. IT WAS WRONG, ABSOLUTELY WRONG IF YOU LOOK AT THE 990S. SO I'M QUESTIONING MANY THINGS THAT CAME OUT AND THAT'S WHY WE ARE NOW AT WHY

AND HOW. >> COUNCILOR SNYDER.

>> IF WE ARE GOING TO GO THROUGH WITH THIS WHICH SPEAKING WITH THE COUNCIL WE WILL SEE HOW THE VOTE GOES MY ONLY COMMENT BECAUSE IS AND I GUESS THIS IS A RHETORICAL QUESTION. FOR YOU , COUNSELOR AND ALL THE COUNSELORS HERE AND THE MAYOR AND THE PUBLIC, IF WE GO THROUGH THIS EFFORT AND EXERCISE TO DO THIS BULLETPROOF REVIEW , IT WOULD BE THE LAST I TALK ABOUT IT.

WHATEVER THE EXECUTIVE SUMMARY THAT COMES OUT OF WHATEVER FIRM DOES THIS NEEDS TO BE THE ACCEPTED DOCUMENT. AND I BELIEVE THE MAYOR AND I AND OTHERS SHARE THE SENTIMENT. YOU DO YOURSELF,

[01:40:07]

USE THAT DATA TO MOVE FORWARD. >> COUNCILOR WORRELL AND THEN

COUNCILOR GREEN NEXT. >> I SAID THIS TO THE MAYOR ON THE PHONE WHEN I CALLED HER ABOUT THE INVESTIGATION. FROM DAY ONE HAVE ONLY SAID THE ONLY WAY YOU GET THERE AND DIVIDE IN MY OPINION NOW THIS IS MY EXPERIENCE AND MY OPINION. IN MY OPINION I BELIEVE WE ARE IN VIOLATING AGREEMENT THAT IT IS YOU LET PEOPLE OUT, YOU LET PEOPLE VENT AND GIVE THEM THEIR VOICE AND THE FACTS ARE WHAT GUIDES US AND THEN WE CAN ACCEPT AND MOVE ON. IN THE BEST INTEREST OF OUR COMMUNITY. THAT IS, FRANKLY, WHAT WE HAVE TO DO. I WISH IT WOULD HAVE NEVER HAPPENED, WE SHOULD NOT BE SPENDING TIME ON THIS BUT IT IS, IT'S OUR JOB AND THAT'S WHY I RECOMMEND THE NEXT PATH FORWARD.

>> COUNCILOR GREEN. >> THANK YOU. I FOUND OUT ABOUT THE POSSIBLE INVESTIGATION COMING FROM COUNCILOR MINNAAR AND COUNCILOR SNYDER AFTER A COUPLE DRINKS THURSDAY NIGHT. NO ONE HAS REALLY DISCUSSED THE INVESTIGATION AT ALL WITH ME SINCE. I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE INVESTIGATION ON WHAT WOULD OCCUR, I HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THE INVESTIGATION. SO AFTER HEARING THERE WOULD BE DISCUSSING TODAY I WROTE DOWN SOME NOTES. WHICH WAS ONLINE WHICH I DON'T LIKE TO DO LOOKING AT FACEBOOK. AND I SAW ONE OF COUNCILOR WORRELL VIDEOS ON CIVILITY AND IN THE VIDEO IT TALKED ABOUT NEEDING TO HAVE TOUGH CONVERSATIONS, MAKING PEOPLE UNCOMFORTABLE. I DECIDED TO WRITE THINGS DOWN I INTEND ON MAKING SOME PEOPLE UNCOMFORTABLE. I AGREE MUCH WITH WHAT HAS BEEN SAID. HAVING ISSUES AND LOVING THE MARKET AND WANTING THE CHRISTKINDLMARKT TO CONTINUE AND THRIVE AND BE BETTER THAN EVER. FROM SOME OF THE COMPLAINTS OVER THE LAST SIX OR SEVEN MONTHS WE HAVE A LOT OF DIFFERING OPINIONS ON EVERYTHING FROM BOTH SIDES. KIND OF CONFUSING WITH A LOT OF MISINFORMATION. SOME ACCURATE AND SOME MISINFORMATION OUT THERE. AFTER LAST WEEK THERE WAS CLEARLY AND I THINK MAY BE A RUSH TO DO THINGS. SOME CONFLICTS OF INTEREST THAT WERE NOT THERE THROUGH AND A LAPSE IN DUE DILIGENCE MAY BE UNINTENTIONAL BUT STILL. I MIGHT BE WILLING AND HAVE REQUESTS ABOUT THIS INVESTIGATION BUT I MIGHT BE WILLING TO GET THERE. BUT I STRUGGLE, LIKE MANY OF YOU ON WHAT THE BEST MECHANISM TO GET THROUGH THIS, TO GET THE ANSWERS FOR EVERYBODY. AND PUT THIS TO REST, PUT IT TO BED BECAUSE WE HAVE ALL KINDS OF PROBLEMS COMING. WE DON'T KNOW HOW WITH THE FISCAL IMPACTS ARE GOING TO BE. WILL LIKELY HAVE TO MAKE CUTS, BIG CUTS AND IF YOU MAKE BIG CUTS WILL HAVE TO PROBABLY DECIDE TO RAISE TAXES. SO WE HAVE TO MAKE CUTS, PROBABLY HAVE TO ERASE TAXES. WE HAVE AGING OF A STRUCTURE THAT NEEDS TO BE DEALT WITH WHEN WE LOOK AT THE PHYSICAL PROMPTS.

AND THE SUIT IS GETTING MORE DEVELOPED. MORE AND MORE CONGESTED, MORE SAFETY CONCERNS ABOUT PEOPLE WALKING AND BICYCLING AND WE HAD A NINE-YEAR-OLD SEVERELY INJURED.

I HEAR FROM THE POLICE THERE IS INCREASE IN CAR THEFTS. SO I AGREE WE NEED IS A GROUP TO GET BACK TO SOLVING THE PROBLEM AND FOCUSING ON THE TASK AT HAND. I MENTIONED EARLIER AT THE

[01:45:01]

NOT HALF-EMPTY. WE HAVE TO REMEMBER AND KEEP THINGS IN PERSPECTIVE WHEN IT SEEMS WE ARE FOCUSING SO MUCH ON A FESTIVAL.

I THINK WE CAN COME TOGETHER AND CREATE A BIGGER AND BETTER MARKET . AS WE HAVE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THE INVESTIGATION, COUNCILOR WORRELL HAS BEEN ON THE COUNCIL MORE THAN ANY OF US, BUT I'M THE SECOND MOST ALMOST ONE YEAR SHORT OF YOU. DURING THAT TIME WITH A COUPLE OF INVESTIGATIONS. THE FIRST INVESTIGATION WAS FEBRUARY 26 THE FIRST INVESTIGATION WAS FEBRUARY 26, 2020 WHEN THE STORY BROKE $18 MILLION WAS SPENT ON THE HOTEL CARMICHAEL FAR GREATER THAN WHAT THE COUNCIL PLANNED. I WAS NOTIFIED FOUR DAYS BEFORE THE STORY BROKE. I CAN SEE HENRY BACK THERE. I GOT THE EMAIL FROM HENRY SAYING HEY, GET YOUR WORD BEFORE THE STORY BREAKS. 18 MILLION OVER BUDGET AND THAT WAS THE FIRST I HEARD OF IT. FOR MONTHS CARTER WAS ASKING QUESTIONS TO HENRY AT THE PODIUM. ARE WE OVER BUDGET? I AM HEARING RUMORS AND HENRY CONSISTENTLY LOOKED AT ALL OF US IN A PUBLIC MEETING AND LIED. AFTER THE MEETING HENRY WALKED OUTSIDE AND WE ALL LIVED HENRY UP. KIND OF A ORGANIZED FASHION I THINK , DURING THE MEETING HENRY WENT TO APPROACH ME OUTSIDE AND APOLOGIZED AND HE APOLOGIZED BECAUSE HE SAID I KNOW I DISAPPOINTED YOU I'M SORRY. HE SAID THAT'S NOT TRUE FOR ALL THE OTHERS BECAUSE SOME OF THE COUNCILORS WERE IN THE MEETING 13 MONTHS AGO AND HELPED APPROVE A 2 MILLION OVER EXPENDITURES BUT SAT THERE WHEN HENRY IS , SAID NOTHING BUT THEIR AT THE MEETING AND ANOTHER AT THE MEETING BECAUSE HENRY TOLD ME AND IS A CHECK TO MINUTES. TWO OF THE COUNSELORS IN THE MEETING SAID NOTHING. SO I WAS LIED TO, PEOPLE FROM CARMEL WERE ELECTED BY TWO COUNCILORS WHO KNEW ALL ALONG HENRY WAS LYING AND I WANTED A HUGE INVESTIGATION. I WANTED TO GO DEEP. CONVERSATION WITH COUNSELORS THEY SAID WE NEED TO AVOID MAKING THIS LOOK LIKE IT IS POLITICAL. SO WE NEED TO NARROW THE SCOPE AND MAKE SURE WE AVOID ANY POLITICS AND I WAS OPEN TO MAKING A POLITICAL, COMPLETELY OPEN, BUT I AGREED SO THE COUNCIL COULD FIND CONSENSUS TO KEEP IT NARROW BECAUSE THAT WAS BEST FOR CARMEL. I DO NOT THINK THE INVESTIGATION WENT FAR ENOUGH BUT IT SERVED ITS PURPOSE AND WE MOVED ON. ONE YEAR LATER WE HAD ANOTHER INVESTIGATION. SYSTEMATIC HARASSMENT, HOSTILE WORK ENVIRONMENT. FEMALE EMPLOYEE APPROACHING FEMALE CITY COUNCIL IS COMPLAINING , THE CITY COUNCIL CAME TOGETHER AND AGAIN I WANTED BLOW THE DOORS OFF INVESTIGATION AND GO AFTER IT. IN DISCUSSIONS WITH OTHER CITY COUNSELORS THEY SAID IT'S BEST FOR CARMEL TO TAKE THE POLITICS OUT OF IT AND MAKE IT A NARROW FOCUS AND REAL AGREED TO MAKE IT A NARROW FOCUS. WHAT I'M CONCERNED ABOUT HEARING THIS INVESTIGATION IS ASSURING WE TAKE THE POLITICS OUT OF IT. SO I CAN GO ALONG WITH SOME TYPE OF INVESTIGATION IF WE TAKE STEPS TO TAKE THE POLITICS OUT OF IT THE BEST WE CAN. ONE OF THE SUGGESTIONS AND I DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE INVESTIGATION BECAUSE NO ONE CONTACTED ME TO DISCUSS THE INVESTIGATION , WHICH IS OKAY. I HAD A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THE INVESTIGATION. NO ONE CONTACTED

[01:50:04]

IT IS REASONABLE WE BACK OFF UNTIL THE INDIVIDUALS ON THE AFFILIATED REVIEW COMMITTEE ARE DONE. SECOND IS IN ANY TYPE OF COMMITTEE THAT IS FORMED TO INVESTIGATE, I HIGHLY SUGGEST IT HAS TO BE THREE PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT ENDING IN THIS WILL BE OFFENSIVE, BUT WE ALL WANT TRANSPARENCY. COUNCILOR LOCKE, COUNCILOR AYERS AND MYSELF WERE NOT ON THE CAMPAIGN SLATE. WE WERE NOT. WE WERE NOT ON THE SLATE BUT IT SEEMS LIKE INDIVIDUALS PUSHING MOST FOR THE INVESTIGATION WERE IN FACT ON NAME ] SLATE, INDIVIDUALS WHO CAMPAIGNED AGAINST AND ATTACKED MAYOR FINKAM. I AM IN NO WAY SUGGESTING IT IS POLITICAL BUT I AM SAYING WE TALK ABOUT THE APPEARANCE, HOW CAN YOU SAY? IT DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE POLITICAL WHEN SOME OF YOU ACTIVELY ATTACK A CAMPAIGN AGAINST MAYOR FINKAM AND YOUR BEHIND-THE-SCENES TRYING TO GET THE INVESTIGATION. AGAIN THERE'S ALL KINDS OF REASONS. LACK OF DUE DILIGENCE, BUT TO HAVE INDIVIDUALS PUSHING THE ONLY WAY TO TAKE THE POLITICS OUT OF IT IS TO HAVE COUNCILOR LOCKE, COUNCILOR AYERS AND MYSELF ON THE COMMITTEE. MY THIRD REQUEST WOULD BE ANY LAW FIRM WE HIRE , IT CAN BE SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS A GUY. IT HAS TO BE COUNCILOR LOCKE, MYSELF, WITH ATTORNEYS DOING A COMPETITIVE PROCESS TO FIND AN ATTORNEY TO DO THE PROPER DUE DILIGENCE TO GET THE RIGHT LAW FIRM AND RIGHT ATTORNEY RATHER THAN WHAT MAY HAVE BEEN A RUSH TO HIRE PEOPLE AS THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH DID. IF THOSE THREE THINGS ARE PART OF WHATEVER THIS INVESTIGATION MIGHT BE, I WOULD BE WILLING TO SUPPORT, BUT OTHERWISE I THINK IT'S GOING TO END UP LOOKING, NO MATTER WHAT, POLITICAL. AND ALSO, I UNDERSTAND SOME OF THE FEELINGS OF THE COUNSELORS WHO HAD VERY CLOSE RELATIONSHIPS WITH SOME OF THE INDIVIDUALS INVOLVED HERE IT SEEMS TO BE WE NEED TO TAKE NOT ONLY THE POLITICS OUT OF IT, BUT THE EMOTION OUT OF IT AND I DON'T BELIEVE COUNCILOR LOCKE, COUNCILOR AYERS OR MYSELF HAVE THE EMOTIONAL RELATIONSHIPS.

SOME VESTED RELATIONSHIP OF THE INDIVIDUALS ON PART OF THE CHRISTKINDLMARKT. AT THOSE TYPES OF THINGS ARE AGREED TO I COULD

SUPPORT THE INVESTIGATION. >> BEFORE I RESPOND TO SOME OF THAT, FIRST OFF THE MOTION ON THE TABLE IS FOR COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE WHICH WOULD MEAN WE WOULD NOT EXCLUDE ANY CITY COUNSELOR. IF YOU ARE PROPOSING ONLY COUNCILORS COUNCILOR LOCKE COUNCILOR AYERS AND YOU THAT WOULD NOT BE ON THE TABLE, IF YOU WANT TO DO AN INVESTIGATION WITH THREE, AND THAT PASSES I DON'T THINK THAT'S A REAL INVESTIGATION. AND I WOULD BE OUT. TONING, I CONSIDER A FRIEND, SORRY TO CALL YOU TONY, BUT TO BE FAMILIAR. WE HAVE HAD PERSONAL CONVERSATIONS. I HOPE , I TAKE A LITTLE OFFENSE TO SOME SAYING BECAUSE OF A ELECTION , THEY WOULD QUESTION THE MOTIVES OF PEOPLE HERE AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE'RE NOT CROSS THE LINE HERE AND I DON'T KNOW, PERSONALLY I AM TAKEN ABACK BY THAT A LITTLE BIT. I THINK SUNLIGHT IS THE BEST DISINFECTANT. IF WE WANT TO MAKE THIS GO AWAY AND STOP TALKING ABOUT THIS LIKE COUNCILOR SNYDER SAYS, WE NEED TO HAVE THE TOUGH CONVERSATIONS IN PUBLIC. I HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS. ONE OF THEM IS AT THE APRIL 16 MEETING I

[01:55:02]

>> I THINK YOU MADE A LOT OF GREAT POINTS. BY VIRTUE OF MAKING THOSE POINTS YOU HAVE EXHIBITED YOUR EMOTIONAL ATTACHMENT NOW. I HOPE, I MADE I POURED MY HEART AND SOUL INTO TRYING TO GET ACROSS, TO ME THIS IS JUST ABOUT THE TRUTH I WILL NOT I CANNOT SUPPORT A COMMITTEE OF THREE. THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS IS TO TAKE AWAY ANY ABILITY TO SAY THAT ANYBODY INFLUENCED IT. THE WAY THAT I WOULD ENVISION THIS IS WHATEVER FIRM IS HIRED AND I WOULD INSIST IT IS A FIRM THAT IS NEVER EVER DONE WORK IN CARMEL. HAS CONVERSATIONS WITH ONE PERSON FROM THE COUNCIL. AND ANYBODY, PUBLIC, MAYOR, COUNCILORS CAN EMAIL QUESTIONS AND AGAIN SUBMITTED TO THE FIRM. I THINK , FRANKLY, WE ALL KNOW WHO IT SHOULD PROBABLY BE. IF MORE THAN THE ONE PERSON IS INTERACTING THAT I THINK IT IS TAINTED.

TRADING ONE COMMITTEE FOR ANOTHER COMMITTEE I CANNOT. I THINK YOU HAVE GREAT POINTS. IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE TWICE YOU HAVE WANTED TO HAVE A BROAD SCOPE AND YOU HAVE BEEN NARROWED. I DON'T FRANKLY CARE WHAT THE SCOPE IS, WE INVESTIGATE EVERYTHING. IF YOU WANT TO TELL ME ONE SHOE SIZE EVERY MEMBER OF THE BOARD WEARS IF THAT IS IMPORTANT THEN THAT'S WHAT IT IS. SO I DON'T THINK THAT IS AN ISSUE BUT I WILL NOT SUPPORT ANOTHER COMMITTEE LED THING. IT'S EITHER THIS IS IT EVERYBODY US QUESTIONS, ALL QUESTIONS GO THROUGH ONE PERSON TO THE FIRM THAT IS BOUND BY CONFIDENTIALITY IN AN EXECUTIVE SUMMARY PUT OUT,

THAT'S WHAT I WILL SUPPORT. >> ANYONE ELSE THAT IS NOT SPOKEN YET? COUNCILOR LOCKE OKAY.

>> SO, THIS IS A LOT. APPRECIATE ALL OF YOU SITTING OUT HERE. AS MUCH AS PEOPLE SITTING UP HERE. TO YOUR QUESTIONS , TONY , MR. GREEN. I DO THINK IT IS A REASONABLE AND IT IS NOT MY CALL AS THE CHAIR OF THE COMMITTEE BUT THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT RECOMMENDATIONS ARE FROM THE REVIEW WE WERE SET OUT TO DO WHICH IS SEPARATE AND DISTINCT FROM THE INFORMATION WE HAVE NOT RECEIVED AND HAS PUT US IN A POSITION THAT THIS CONVERSATION IS HAPPENING ON THIS DAY IS TODAY. FROM MY PERSONAL PERSPECTIVE I DO THINK AN INVESTIGATION INTO THIS ONE INSTANCE AND HOW IT PLAYS OUT SEEMS PRUDENT BASED ON THE INFORMATION WE RECEIVE, CONTINUE TO RECEIVE, CONTINUE TO NOT RECEIVE WHICH MAKES IT SEEM A REASONABLE THING FOR US TO DO. I WANT TO SHARE THAT NUMBER ONE, FOR NUMBER TWO, IN ABUNDANCE OF TRANSPARENCY TO THE CONVERSATION WE ARE HAVING, WITH YOUR REMARKS THERE'S ANOTHER PERSON ON THIS DAIS WHO IS NOT ON THE CAMPAIGN AND IT IS DR. JOSHI. I DON'T

[02:00:01]

IT IS NOT AN IMPOSSIBLE TASK. I LOVE THAT, I WOULD NEVER TAKE A TASK THAT I THOUGHT WAS IMPOSSIBLE. I DON'T THINK ANY TASK IS IMPOSSIBLE BY THE COLLECTIVE GOOD OF HUMAN BEINGS AS WE DO THINGS TOGETHER AND TRY TO MAKE SURE THE THINGS WE CARE ABOUT ARE TAKING CARE OF. SO THE CONCEPT WE CANNOT FIGURE OUT AND CONTINUE TO COLLECT INFORMATION, TO ENSURE THE DOCUMENT WHICH INCLUDES TWO HUMAN BEINGS THAT ARE NOT IN THIS ROOM THAT HAVE GIVEN THEIR HEARTS TO IT, THAT ARE ASKING QUESTIONS , WE CANNOT FIND THAT CONCURRENT PATH GOVERNMENT. WHILE WE GET TO THE BOTTOM OF ONE SPECIFIC THING WITH THE INTENT TO DO IT IN A WAY THAT ALLOWS US TO MOVE FORWARD TO BE DONE. I DON'T KNOW ULTIMATELY IN MY HEAD HOW TO SHAPE THE COMMITTEE IF A COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MAKE SENSE. IF IT GOES TO A FULL REVIEW PROCESS WHERE WE HAVE OPEN MEETINGS AND WE HAVE TO DO A SIDE QUEST OR IF IT MAKES SENSE TO DO ONE HUMAN OR THREE HUMANS OR A COMMITTEE SMALLER, GETTING THE INFORMATION. I DON'T HAVE CLEAR STRATEGIC PERSONAL OPINIONS ON HOW THAT IS SHAPED. BUT WHAT I DO KNOW BACK TO .2 IS ONE OF THE ISSUES WE HAVE IS THE EXCLUSION OF THE VOICE AND THE THING FRUSTRATED FOR THE AFFILIATE REVIEW PROCESS IS THAT WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO GET THE FULL STORY. I WILL REITERATE THAT OUT OF MY CONTROL OF THAT OF THE PRESIDENT 'S WE NEED TO GET TO THE FIRST ITERATION OF INFORMATION COMING IN. THERE ARE ONLY SO MANY PEOPLE YOU CAN HAVE ON THE DAYS. CLEARLY NINE IS MORE TO GET HOME BEFORE 10:00 P.M. BUT THE CONCEPT OF HOW DO WE DEPARTMENT ALLIES TO RECEIVE INFORMATION APPROPRIATELY AND MAKE THE CALLS TO GET THE INFORMATION TO TRIGGER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT WE NEED TO DO, WHAT WE SHOULD DO AS A COMMUNITY TO PERFECT OUR GOVERNMENT SO WE CAN MOVE INTO A BETTER FUTURE BACK TO THE ISSUES THAT MATTER, CANNOT BE IMPOSSIBLE TASK. SO I SHARE THAT IN MY THOUGHTS. I AM IN PERSONAL SUPPORT OF DOING AN INVESTIGATION ON THIS ISSUE BASED ON WHAT I HAVE HEARD, WHAT I'VE BEEN THROUGH, BUT I HAVE TO DISCUSS IN OPEN SESSIONS FROM OTHER COMMITTEES AND INFORMATION HAVE TRIED TO PULL AND GET AND RECEIVE AND THE PUSHBACK I HAVE RECEIVED WHICH IS NOT A LOT, BUT IT'S NOT AN OPEN DOOR. IT'S NOT A DIRECT RESPONSE IT IS SOMETHING ELSE. SO IN MY TIME IN GOVERNMENT WHEN I HAVE SEEN THAT BE THE CASE IT FEELS AS THOUGH MAYBE THERE IS SOMETHING WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT WITH INTENT OF MOVING FORWARD OF SAYING WE SHOULD NOT DO THIS AGAIN WE SHOULD DO SOMETHING IN A DIFFERENT WAY. EVEN IF IT IS PROCUREMENT, THE PUREST FORM OF GOVERNMENT PROCESS, THE USE OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS TO BUY SOMETHING, A GOOD OR SERVICE AND WE NEED TO CREATE IN THE PROCESS SO WE DON'T GET INTO A SITUATION. EVEN IF IT APPLIES DIRECTLY TO PROCUREMENT DURING TRANSITION THERE ARE THINGS WE CAN LEARN THAT MOVE US IN A BETTER DIRECTION. WHICH TO PUT A CLOSING ON ALL OF THIS, IT'S WHY I FEEL GRATEFUL WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO WHAT WE ARE DOING. WE ARE PULLING INFORMATION WE ARE GOING THROUGH IT COMING UP WITH GREAT IDEAS.

THAT MAY BE ACTIONABLE IF WE GIVE THEM PROCESS, TIME AND ENERGY, BUT WE ARE NOT GOING TO GET WHAT WE NEED OUT OF

[02:05:07]

PERSON NEXT TO US. >> I WANT TO POINT OUT THERE ARE QUESTIONS ABOUT CITY LEGAL IF THERE IS REPRESENTATION THERE.

UNDER THE ORDINANCE APPROVED BY THE ENTIRE COUNCIL. THAT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE DECIDED TONIGHT PRIOR TO THE INVESTIGATION OR ENGAGEMENT LETTER DRAFTED THAT IS VOTED ON BY THE COUNCIL. SO NO ONE GETS EXCLUDED IN THAT DECISION. IF THERE'S ANY OTHER COMMENTS, I WAS ON A CALL ALL RIGHT COUNCILOR GREEN.

>> I DID NOT MEAN TO MAKE YOU FEEL LIKE I WAS IMPLYING, BUT THERE IS THE APPEARANCE OF POLITICS. COUNCILOR LOCKE, YOU KNOW EVERY TIME YOU SPEAK I AM LIKE MY GOD. MY BLOOD PRESSURE COMES DOWN AND YOU KNOW EVEN WHEN YOU'RE JUST RAMBLING AND RAMBLING AND RAMBLING, YOU HAVE SO MANY GOOD POINTS. SO I

APPRECIATE. >> WE ARE STILL FRIENDS, IT'S

OKAY. DR. JOSHI. >> THANK YOU, FIRST OF ALL. I LEARNED A LOT SITTING HERE, THIS EVENING AND A LOT OF WHAT I LEARNED AS I DON'T KNOW A LOT OF WHAT CREATED THESE PROCESSES TO BEGIN WITH AND THAT'S WHY I GO BACK TO MY ORIGINAL STATEMENT THAT THE PROCESS IS ACTUALLY THE PROBLEM, THE MARKET IS NOT THE PROBLEM, THE PEOPLE ARE NOT THE PROBLEM, THE HUMANS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM, THE PROCESS IS THE PROBLEM AND I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT WHENEVER WE LOOK AT PROCESS TO NOT HAVE YOU HAVE TO BE EVERY WEEK COME UP AND PUSH THE BOULDER DOWN THE HILL AND HAVE THAT COME BACK DOWN. WE DO NEED UNDERSTANDING OF HOW THIS WORKS BUT I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT MEANS AND I WOULD LIKE EDUCATION ON WHAT IT MEANS TO LAUNCH AN INVESTIGATION SINCE I HAVE NEVER BEEN PART OF THE PROCESS. IT SEEMS EACH OF YOU HAVE SO IF YOU COULD EDUCATE ME BEFORE WE TAKE THE VOTE I WOULD

VERY MUCH APPRECIATE IT. >> I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE AN AMENDMENT. THAT , TO COUNCILOR WORRELL MOTION THAT AT THE NEXT

[02:10:12]

>> SO THERE HAS BEEN AMENDMENT TO THE EXISTING MOTION IS THERE

A SECOND? >> YEAH, STILL UNCLEAR. SORRY, I

AM ASKING THE HONEST QUESTION. >> THIS WOULD GIVE THE ABILITY TO VOTE ON WHO WOULD CHAIR THE INVESTIGATION.

>> WE STILL DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS OF THE INVESTIGATION WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE AND WHETHER OR NOT EVERY COUNCILMEMBER IS EXPECTED TO SERVE OR ARE WE THEN GOING TO DETERMINE WHO SERVES ON THE INVESTIGATION AND ARE WE GOING TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS AGAIN?

>> THE WHOLE COUNCIL WOULD SERVE. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE.

CHAIR TO BE DECIDED NEXT MEETING.

>> OKAY. >> WHY ARE WE WAITING UNTIL THE NEXT MEETING? WE KNOW WHO THE CHAIR OUGHT TO BE. TO DR. JOSHI 'S POINT, WHAT IS THIS GOING TO BE? WHAT IS THE SCOPE OF SERVICE? WHAT TYPE OF FIRM ARE WE GOING TO HIRE? I DON'T THINK THAT IS AS INTERESTING OR NOT AS INTERESTED, PERHAPS WHETHER OR NOT WE DO THIS THE EDUCATIONAL, WHAT THIS WILL LOOK LIKE HOW THE INPUT COMES IN AND WHAT THE OUTPUT WILL BE IF WE LOOK TO SELECT A CHAIR I DON'T SEE WHY WE WAIT. I THINK THAT IS

COLLECTIVE. >> I THINK WE GOT HERE WITH A LOT OF BAD PROCESSES. I WANT TO MAKE SURE IF I AM VOTING ON SOMETHING AND I'M TRYING TO HELP , ALL OF US AND THE MAYOR AND EVERYONE TO TRY TO COME TO A PLACE WHERE THE MARKET SUCCEEDS AND WE DO THIS WELL THAT WE'RE NOT WALKING OUT OF HERE WITH A VOTE THAT IS THEN SOMETHING ELSE. I'M NOT ALWAYS IN THE ROOM FOR THOSE CONVERSATIONS TO BE QUITE FRANK. I THINK IT IS CLEAR WE HAVE A GOOD UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THIS LOOKS

LIKE WHEN WE MOVE FORWARD. >>

>> SO, IN THE PAST, THERE HAVE BEEN, HAVE YOU SERVED ON AN INVESTIGATION COMMITTEE, TONY? SO, I MEAN, IT CAN GO IN A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS. IT DEPENDS WHO THE CHAIR IS. SHOULD THE CHAIR BE, WHICH, TO COUNSELOR SCHNEIDER'S POINT, EVERYONE ASSUMES THAT, THE CHAIR COULD DETERMINE WHAT THE PROCESS IS GOING TO BE. WHAT I WOULD BE LOOKING FOR IS SOMETHING THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE IN THE AFFILIATE REVIEW COMMITTEE AND THAT IS WHEN WE, WHEN SOMEONE SAYS SALARY IS STATED TO BE ALMOST $300,000.00 THAT THERE IS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR SOMEONE TO REBUT THAT AND SAY, WAIT A MINUTE, THAT ACTUALLY IS TWO YEARS WORTH OF SALARY, THAT KIND OF THING.

SO, IT IS BEING ABLE TO HEAR TESTIMONY OR REPORTING AND THEN MAKE SURE THAT YOU ARE GETTING ACCURATE INFORMATION AND NOT THE NARRATIVE AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THE CHAIR COULD DETERMINE WHO THE LAW FIRM IS GOING TO BE, HOW MANY TIMES THEY ARE GOING TO MEET, ALTHOUGH THAT CAN BE, PARDON ME? THERE ARE RULES YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW BUT DECIDING WHO THAT IS GOING TO BE. IN MY OPINION, IT WOULD BE UP TO THE CHAIR TO LEAD US BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU ARE GOING TO FIND A PLAYBOOK AS TO EXACTLY WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN. IT IS LIKE ANY COMMITTEE, FINANCE ORLAND HILLS, THEY TAKE ON WHAT IS IMPORTANT, THEY MEET WHERE THEY WANT TO

MEET. >> AS A POINT OF QUESTION, SINCE WE HAVE A MARKET THAT WE ARE TRYING TO GET BACK INTO SERVICE, WHAT IS A DATE BY WHICH WE NEED TO HAVE SOME KIND OF

[02:15:01]

FLIPPANT, I JUST WANT TO KNOW. >> COUNSELOR GREEN A AND

COUNCILLOR SNYDER. >> WE ARE ALL HEADED TOWARD TREATMENT. ARE YOU GOOD? WE KEEP ASKING MORE AND MORE AND MORE OF YOU. WE JUST KEEP, IF YOU ARE THE CHAIR, YOU WILL COME UP WITH THE PROCESS, YOU ARE GOING TO BE THE MAN. CAN YOU HANDLE THAT,

WITH TIME AND EVERYTHING ELSE? >> YES. WHEN I SAY THAT, IT IS WITH AN ABUNDANCE OF DREAD BUT FULLY UNDERSTAND WHAT I SIGNED UP FOR WHEN I MULTIPLE STORES AND RAN FOR THIS, TO ECHO THOSE POINTS, I LOVE THIS PLACE MORE THAN ANYTHING, OTHER THAN MY FAMILY, THE PLACE IS THAT HUMANS. THE CONCEPT OF TAKING THE EFFORT TO ENSURE THAT WE ARE IN THE RIGHT SPOT AND THAT IT IS DONE CORRECTLY IS WHAT I HEAR AND WHY I AM NOT HERE, I HOPE SOMEBODY THAT IS IS HERE. SO, MAYBE.

>> COUNCILLOR SNYDER. >> TO SPEAK TO YOUR QUESTION ON TIMELINE, I DON'T THINK IT IS REASONABLE TO ASK THE EXISTING MARKET BOARD TO STOP OPERATIONS AT THIS POINT. I DON'T THINK TIMELINE IS LESS IMPERATIVE FOR THE FUTURE FOR NEXT YEAR'S MARKET, ALTHOUGH, I THINK IT WILL BE DICTATED ON WHAT COMES OUT OF IT, WITH HOW MUCH INPUT AND HOW MUCH OUTPUT AND, ALSO, I MEAN, WE'VE GOT ANOTHER ORDINANCE COMING UP THAT I THINK MAY EXPEDITE THAT A LITTLE BIT. MY DIRECT ANSWER IS IT WILL TAKE AS LONG AS IT TAKES. MY HOPEFUL ANSWER IS NOT THAT LONG.

>> AS LONG AS THE PROCESS, YOU KNOW, THE FUNCTION OF THE MARKET CONTINUES, FOR THE CITIZENRY, WE NEED TO ASSURE THEM AND OURSELVES AS CITIZENS OF THIS COMMUNITY THAT THAT WILL CONTINUE. THAT IS WHY I ASKED THAT QUESTION IN THAT WAY, TO MAKE AN ASSURANCE SO THE PUBLIC HEARS THAT WE HAVE EVERY INTENTION OF HAVING THIS MARKET.

>> I WILL SAY I DON'T THINK THERE IS A COUNCILLOR UP HERE AND CERTAIN THE MAYOR, THERE IS NOT SOMEONE WHO HAS THOUGHT ABOUT, SUGGESTED, SNIFFED, ALLUDED TO ANY OTHER WORDS I CAN SAY THAT THERE WILL BE A MARKET THIS YEAR.

>> I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE PUT THAT OUT THERE ON THE RECORD FOR ANYONE WHO IS POSSIBLY QUESTIONING THAT ISSUE IN ANY

WAY. >> I WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR I HAVE WITHDRAWN MY MOTION FOR THE AMENDMENT SO THAT IS WITHDRAWN.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS BEFORE WE CALL A VOTE? ALL RIGHT. ON THE ORIGINAL MOTION, THROUGH COUNCILLOR WORRELL, PLEASE VOTE . TAKE A SECOND. IS THIS UP HERE? OKAY. NOT DOING ANYTHING UNTIL WE PUSH IT. I WOULD LIKE TO AVOID A VOICE VOTE, IF WE CAN. READY? PLEASE VOTE. ALL RIGHT, IT PASSES 8-0.

ALL RIGHT. I'M GOING TO CALL A QUICK RECESS JUST BECAUSE, ALL READY, GIVE ME THE SIGNAL. WE WILL RESUME. ALL RIGHT, WE ARE

[12.a. Sixth Reading of Ordinance D-2762-25; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Amending Chapter 8, Article 5, Sections 8-37, 8-47, and 8-48 of the Carmel City Code; Sponsor: Councilor Aasen. Remains in the Land Use and Special Studies Committee.]

[12.b. Resolution CC-02-03-25-07; A Resolution of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Recommending Consideration of an Amendment to the Unified Development Ordinance for the City and Referring the Same to the Carmel Plan Commission for Recommendation; Sponsor(s): Councilor(s) Aasen, Snyder and Taylor. Returns from the Land Use and Special Studies Committee.]

[02:20:01]

COUNCILLOR SNYDER. >> YOU CAUGHT ME NAKED, SORRY.

THANK YOU. OKAY. YOU JUST READ THE SYNOPSIS? THANK YOU. THIS HAS BEEN VETTED FOR A VERY LONG TIME. I WOULD ASK IF OUR LEGAL COUNSEL WOULD GO THROUGH THIS BEST BUT WE HAVE VETTED THESE CHANGES. IT CAME OUT OF COMMITTEE UNANIMOUSLY IN FAVOR OF. IF YOU COULD RUN DOWN THE HIGH POINTS ON WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO, CLEANUP AND WHATNOT, THANK YOU, SIR.

>> JUST TO BE CLEAR, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE GROUP HOME.

>> I'M SORRY, IT SAYS UDL. >> BOTH OF THEM ARE UDL AMENDMENT. IT IS EASY TO CONFUSE.

>> I APOLOGIZE, THE GROUP HOME ORDINANCE IS SOMETHING THAT HAS COME OUT OF A PUBLIC SAFETY ISSUE, ONE THAT WE HAVE GREAT CONCERNS ABOUT . IF ANYBODY CAN JUST SAY HEY, I'M GROUP HOME AND YOU HAVE A FOUR-STORY HOUSE IN THE MIDDLE OF A NEIGHBORHOOD, DOES THAT MEET, IS THAT IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE COMMUNITY? THERE ARE A LOT OF LEGAL CONSTRAINTS WE ALL HAD TO LOOK AT AS FAR AS MAKING SURE WE ABIDED BY ALL SORTS OF OTHER GOVERNING LEGAL BODIES. I BELIEVE WE ARE AT A REALLY GOOD SPOT NOT ONLY WITH THE ORDINANCE BUT WITH PROCESS. AND THE CHIEF IS NOT HERE BUT HE WOULD PROBABLY BE THE EXPERT ON THIS BUT IF OUR LEGAL COUNSEL , SERGEI, IF YOU COULD, PLEASE.

>> THIS WAS INTRODUCED EARLIER. I THINK YOU HAVE ALL SEEN IT. IT WENT THROUGH A THOROUGH REVIEW AT COMMITTEE MEETING. IF THAT IS OKAY WITH YOU, I CAN TOUCH ON THE CHANGES THAT WERE MADE IN THE COMMITTEE. WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE ENTIRE ORDINANCE BUT I CAN IF YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO AS WELL. THE HIGHLIGHT, HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE COMMITTEE REVIEW WERE AS FOLLOWS. AS JUST A REMINDER, THE ORDINANCE INTRODUCES A LICENSURE REQUIREMENT. IN FACT, THAT REQUIREMENT WAS PRESENT FOR, IT WAS REMOVED, NOW IT HAS GONE BACK FOR SPECIFIC TYPES OF COUPONS. SPECIFICALLY, FOR DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES, OR PERSONS WITH DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES WILL REQUIRE LICENSURE FROM THE INDIANA DIVISION OF DISABILITY AND REHABILITATIVE SERVICES AND PERSONS WITH PSYCHIATRIC DISORDERS WILL REQUIRE LICENSURE FROM THE INDIANA DIVISION OF MENTAL HEALTH AND ADDICTION.

FURTHER, THE GROUP HOMES WILL BE LIMITED TO, OR RATHER, GROUP HOMES IN CERTAIN DISTRICTS, INCLUDING R1 , 2, 3, 4, 5, UP TO EIGHT UNRELATED PERSONS IN A GROUP HOME. THE 300 FOOT DISTANCE REQUIREMENT, THE HARD REQUIREMENT WAS REMOVED AND MADE AS A CONSIDERATION FOR APPROVAL FOR THE BOARD. THE REASON FOR THAT IS THERE IS SOME FAIR HOUSING ACT CONCERNS AND EVERY APPLICATION FOR GROUP HOME, IT IS CONSIDERED ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS. WE THOUGHT THAT THE HARD REQUIREMENT THAT COULD BE CHALLENGED, IT SHOULD BE SOFTENED AND CONSIDERED AS ONE OF THE CRITERIA TO LOOK AT. ALSO, THE REQUIREMENT WAS ADDED THAT THE DIRECTOR SHALL INFORM THE APPLICANT INTO THE BUILDING SPECIFICATION REQUIREMENTS, THAT IS WHAT COUNCILLOR SNYDER WAS REFERRING TO. HOMES, AMENDING CHAPTER 2, ARTICLE 4, SECTION 2-96 RECENTLY ISSUED GUIDANCE ON THE SPECIFICATIONS OF THE BUILDING ITSELF IN THAT PARTICULAR PERSON IS PROHIBITED BY STATE LAW BUT THAT IS THE BODY TO SPECIFICATION IT MOVED FROM THE MAJORITY OF GROUP HOMES TO, IT MOVED FROM UNDETERMINED TO CLASS ONE. CLASS ONE BUILDINGS HAVE A LOT MORE REQUIREMENTS OF WHAT GOES IN THEM FROM A BUILDING STANDPOINT, FROM A FIRE STANDPOINT ESPECIALLY. AS YOU REMEMBER, A BIG CHANGE THAT WAS INTRODUCED IN THE ORDINANCE IS THAT ALL SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS WILL BE CONSIDERED BY THE FULL BZA

[02:25:09]

SECTIONS F AND G. >> CAN YOU PLEASE ELABORATE ON WHY, THE FOR BZA FOR GROUP HOME RENEWAL ?

>> GROUP HOMES, ABSOLUTELY. AS A REMINDER, STRS AND DON DWELLING SHORT-TERM RENTALS ARE RENTED ON AN ANNUAL BASIS. THESE ARE PERMITS THAT ARE ROUTINE IN A SENSE VERSUS GROUP HOMES, THEY ARE GRANTED FOR MUCH LONGER AMOUNTS OF TIME. THE MINIMUM IS FIVE YEARS. IT CAN GO ALL THE WAY TO 20 YEARS. THAT WILL BE UP TO THE BZA AS WELL. THAT IS ANOTHER CHANGE. RATHER THAN HAVING A PLACE HOLDER OF A 20 YEAR GRANT, IT WILL BE DECIDED ON A FIVE-YEAR, MINIMUM IS FIVE YEARS. THE LONGEST TERM FOR GROUP HOME IS 20 YEARS. THAT IS WHY, IN FIVE YEARS, A LOT CAN CHANGE. OWNERSHIP CAN CHANGE, MANAGEMENT ACTRESSES MAY CHANGE.

THE REQUIREMENTS FOR GROUP HOMES MAY CHANGE FROM EITHER COUNCIL, STATE, OR FEDERAL GOVERNMNT. THERE ARE FEDERAL LAWS INVOLVED, FEDERAL FAIR HOUSING ACT AND A.D.A. SPECIFICALLY AND SOME OTHERS. THAT IS THE REASON TO KEEP THE GROUP HOMES. EVERY RENEWAL WILL BE A REVIEW, VERSUS STRS, A LOT MORE ROUTINE AND A LOT MORE DEFINED AS FAR AS GRANTING CRITERIA. SO, SECTION F AND SECTION G WERE ADDED. AS A HOUSECLEANING ITEM, I THINK THEY WERE INADVERTENTLY ADMITTED IN THE ORIGINAL ORDINANCE. SECTION F AND SECTION G IN THE UDO ADDRESS COMMITMENTS AND THOSE COMMITMENTS NEEDED TO BE CHANGED FROM HEARING OFFICER TO FALL BZA. THOSE ARE THE ONLY SUBSTANTIVE CHANGES. I BELIEVE THESE ARE ALL THE CHANGES THAT WERE MADE AT THE COMMITTEE LEVEL. I WOULD BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU

HAVE. >> ALL RIGHT, ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM THE COUNCIL? ALL RIGHT, THIS IS A RESOLUTION AND IT RETURNS SO IT DOES NOT REQUIRE US SUSPENDING A VOTE. DO I HAVE A MOTION? OCEAN AND SECOND TO APPROVE. PLEASE VOTE WHEN IT IS ON YOUR SCREEN. IT PASSES UNANIMOUSLY.

>> SORRY, QUICKLY, THIS DOESN'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH PLANNING

COMMISSION? >> IT DOES, SO, THE RESOLUTION, THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION. FOR THOSE WHO ARE WATCHING, THIS IS A UDO AMENDMENT. IT IS CONSIDERED A TEXT AMENDMENT OF A ZONING ORDINANCE PURSUANT TO INDIANA CODE. THE RESOLUTION VERSUS THE ORDINANCE ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. THE RESOLUTION THAT YOU JUST APPROVED SENDS THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE, THE INITIATED ORDINANCE TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION. IT HAS TO GO THROUGH PLANNING COMMISSION REVIEW HER STATE CODE AND THEN IT WILL COME BACK TO YOU FOR FINAL APPROVAL. SO, THAT IS THE

[12.c. Fourth Reading of Ordinance D-2767-25; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Amending Chapter 2, Article 4, Section 2-96 of the Carmel City Code; Sponsor(s): Councilor(s) Taylor and Snyder. Remains in the Finance, Utilities and Rules Committee.]

[02:30:03]

DIFFERENCE, YES. >> ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. NEXT UP, WE HAVE THE FOURTH READING OF ORDINANCE D-2767-25, AMENDING CHAPTER 2, ARTICLE 4, SECTION 2-96 OF THE CARMEL CITY CODE. SPONSORS ARE COUNCILLOR TAYLOR AND COUNCILLOR

[12.d. Second Reading of Ordinance D-2769-25; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Amending Chapter 6, Article 4, Section 6-63 of the Carmel City Code; Sponsor(s): Councilor(s) Taylor and Ayers. Remains in the Land Use and Special Studies Committee.]

[12.e. Second Reading of Ordinance D-2770-25; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Adopting a New Article 6 Under Chapter 4 of the Carmel City Code; Sponsor(s): Councilor(s) Aasen, Taylor, Snyder and Ayers. Remains in the Finance, Utilities and Rules Committee.]

[14.a. First Reading of Ordinance D-2771-25; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Authorizing the Issuance of Economic Development Tax Increment Revenue Bonds to Support the North End Phase II Project, and Authorizing and Approving Other Actions in Respect Thereto; Sponsor: Councilor Aasen.]

NEXT UP, PUBLIC HEARINGS. WE HAVE NONE THIS EVENING. NEW BUSINESS. FIRST READING OF AN ORDINANCE OF THE COMMON COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF CARMEL, INDIANA, AUTHORIZING THE ISSUANCE OF ECONOMIC DEPARTMENT TAX INCREMENT REVENUE BONDS TO SUPPORT THE NORTH END PHASE TWO PROJECT, AND AUTHORIZING AND APPROVING OTHER ACTIONS IN RESPECT THERETO, SPONSOR IS COUNCILLOR AASEN. DO I HAVE A MOTION TO INTRODUCE?

>> MOVE TO INTRODUCE. >> COUNCILLOR MINNAAR, WOULD YOU

READ THE SYNOPSIS FOR ME? >> ORDINANCE AUTHORIZES THE ISSUANCE OF DEVELOPER TIF BONDS BY THE CITY OF CARMEL, INDIANA TO FINANCE CERTAIN IMPROVEMENTS TO SUPPORT THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE NORTH END PHASE TWO PROJECT .

>> ALL RIGHT, DIRECTOR. >> EVENING, COUNCIL. DO YOU SEE MY SCREEN UP? ARE YOU ABLE TO PUT THAT UP? WE ARE HERE TO INTRODUCE TO YOU PHASE TWO OF THE NORTH END PROJECT. I WILL ASK CARMEL RESIDENT REBECCA MCGUCKEN AND JESSE MOFFITT TO COME UP TO INTRODUCE THE PRESENT PROJECT.

>> GOOD EVENING, MY NAME IS REBECCA MCGUCKEN. I WORK WITH OLD TOWNE. I KNOW SOME OF YOU ARE ALREADY FAMILIAR WITH THE NORTH END PROJECT AS THIS HAS BEEN A MISSION WE HAVE BEEN WORKING ON SINCE 2018 BUT I WANT TO REMIND YOU TO THINK BACK TO THE BEGINNING OF OUR MEETING, WHEN WE HAD PUBLIC COMMENT. MR. CARLSON STOOD UP THERE WITH A LARGE POSTER OF HIS SON, RYAN.

AS DEVELOPERS AND CITY OFFICIALS, WE GET TO THE BEAUTIFUL THINGS WE CAN BE PROUD OF BUT WE DON'T ALWAYS GET TO HEAR ABOUT THE PERSONAL IMPACT THEY HAVE ON THE HOMES AND INDIVIDUALS THAT THEY THAT LIVED THERE. HE WAS TESTIFYING TO WHERE WE HAVE OVER 250 PEOPLE CURRENTLY LIVING AT NORTH END.

THERE ARE 40 ATTAINABLE UNITS THAT ARE INTEGRATED INTO 168 APARTMENTS THAT ARE SET ASIDE FOR INDIVIDUALS WITH INTELLECTUAL AND DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES. RYAN IS ONE OF THOSE RESIDENTS. WE ARE 21 MONTHS INTO THIS. WE ARE REALLY EXCITED ABOUT WHAT WE SET OUT TO DO, WE ARE ACCOMPLISHING. AND, WE HAVE ALSO INTEGRATED BUSINESS. THERE IS THE OLD TOWNE HEADQUARTERS, THERE IS OVER 160 PEOPLE THAT USE THAT SPACE AS THEIR PLACE OF EMPLOYMENT. 6 OF OUR RESIDENTS ARE EMPLOYED THERE AS WELL. WE ARE REALLY EXCITED THE COLLECTIVITY HAS HAPPENED AND THE INTERACTION . THERE HAVE BEEN THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN ACCOMPLISHED. IN ADDITION TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE, THE AMENITIES AND ACTIVITIES THAT HAPPEN THEREFORE RESIDENTS WITH IDD, THERE'S OVER 12 THINGS HAPPENING ON A WEEKLY BASIS, AS WELL AS THE EMPLOYMENT, THAT I MENTIONED. WE WANT TO KEEP THE ATTAINABLE HOUSING EXISTING IN PERPETUITY.

IN ORDER TO DO THAT, WE HAVE ALWAYS CONSIDERED PHASE TWO PART OF THAT FINANCIAL EQUATION. AND, THE CONSTRUCTION COMPARABLE TO OTHER MARKET RATE HOUSING IS EXPENSIVE AND HAS TAKEN MULTIPLE PARTNERS AND MULTIPLE YEARS TO CREATE. IN ADDITION TO THE CROWDFUNDING THAT WE DID WITH LOCAL CARMEL CITY RESIDENTS TO PROVIDE EQUITY TO THIS, ONE OF OUR OTHER PRIMARY PARTNERS WAS THE CITY OF CARMEL . WE ARE THANKFUL THAT WE HAVE SET OUT AND ACCOMPLISHED A PORTION OF THIS. AS I MENTIONED, WE NEED TO HAVE PHASE TWO TO MAKE IT VIABLE LONG-TERM. SOME OF THE DESTINATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN CREATED THROUGH THIS, AND I'M NOT SURE IF I CAN, OKAY. THANK YOU. I JUST WANTED TO BE

[02:35:08]

INTENDED. >> THANK YOU. I WILL KEEP IT SHORT AND SWEET AND GLAD TO CONTINUE CONVERSATION AT THE COMMITTEE LEVEL AS WE DEEM APPROPRIATE. REBECCA MENTIONED INTERGENERATIONAL LIVING. THAT HAS BEEN A GOAL OF OURS SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE PROJECT. AND WE HAVE THIS EIGHT ACRE SITE OF PHASE TWO IN THE AND TUCKED INTO THE NORTHEAST CORNER, IT IS U.S.-31. IT IS A REALLY UNIQUE AND CHALLENGING PIECE OF LAND.

IT IS NOT REALLY CONDUCIVE TO SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES FACING US 31. IT CALLS FOR A DENSITY OF HOUSING AND WANTED TO BE CONTEXT SENSITIVE AS IT FITS INTO THE LANDSCAPE AND CONNECTS INTO THE MONON TRAIL. THE ENTIRETY OF THE PROJECT WAS TOO BIG TO FIT IN ONE PHASE TO WEEP STARTED WITH PHASE ONE AND SAVED THE BEST FOR LAST WITH THIS PIECE OF LAND THAT TIES INTO THE TRAIL. TWO COMPONENTS TO THE SECOND PHASE. REBECCA MENTIONED THAT THERE WAS AN INTENTION FROM THE BEGINNING TO ADD IN MORE MARKET RATE, FOR RENT , HOUSING. THERE'S A LOT OF CONVERSATION IN THE COMMUNITY BUT MORE APARTMENT TYPE HOUSING. I WOULD SAY THERE ARE TWO UNIQUE FACTORS WITH THIS PRODUCT. ONE IS THAT WE HAVE CUSTOM-DESIGNED A TOWNHOME STYLE ARCHITECTURE THAT IS REALLY TRULY CUSTOM, UNLIKE ANY APARTMENT IN THE COMMUNITY AND I THINK IT IS HIGH QUALITY AND I THINK WE WOULD BE PROUD TO HAVE IT FOR THE NORTH END COMMUNITY. THE OTHER DIFFERENTIATOR THAT I DON'T WANT TO GET LOST IN THIS CONVERSATION IS THE FACT THAT WE HAVE FORMED THIS COMMUNITY TRUST TO HAVE MAJORITY OWNERSHIP OF NOT JUST THE ATTAINABLE HOUSING UNITS BUT ALSO THE MARKET RATE ELEMENT. THAT IS THE UNIQUE DIFFERENCE EITHER. ONE OF THE THINGS WE SET OUT TO ACCOMPLISH WITH SUSTAINABILITY. THAT MEANS FINANCIAL SUSTAINABILITY. WE DIDN'T WANT TO GET TO THE END OF THE 15 YEAR TAX CREDIT COMPLIANCE AND SAY WE HAVE TO BE PROFITABLE NOW AND FORGOT THE MISSION. WE COULDN'T DO THIS UNLESS THE MISSION WAS PERMANENT. WE SOUGHT OUT TO CREATE A UNIQUE STRUCTURE TO MAKE SURE THERE WAS A FINANCIAL SOURCE OF REVENUE OUTSIDE OF THE INITIAL CATALYST INFUSION OF INVESTMENT. REBECCA MENTIONED THIS, WE CROWDFUNDING THE EQUITY THROUGH DOWNTOWN CARMEL RESIDENCE FOR THIS PROJECT. IT IS UNLIKE ANYTHING HE HAD EVER SEEN BEFORE. AND, IT WAS REALLY A COLLECTION OF NEIGHBORS THAT SOUGHT TO BRING THIS TOGETHER. I AM PROUD OF THAT EFFORT, GRATEFUL THAT WE HAVE WORKED TOGETHER AS NEIGHBORS TO SEE SOMETHING MEANINGUL AND POSITIVE HAPPEN FOR THE COMMUNITY. IT IS A SUSTAINABLE SOURCE OF REVENUE LONG-TERM. AS THE ASSET MATURES, AND I AM TALKING ABOUT THE RETAIL SPACES, THE OFFICE SPACE, OLD TOWNE PAYS RENT TO THIS ORGANIZATION THAT CREATES A LONG-TERM SOURCE OF REVENUE SO THAT WE CAN CONTINUE TO MAKE SURE THAT ATTAINABLE UNITS STAY AS ATTAINABLE PERMANENTLY BUT ALSO WE HAVE A POTENTIAL SOURCE OF REVENUE, LIKE AN EVERGREEN FUND THAT WE CAN START TO SEE THE NEW INITIATIVES LIKE THE URBAN FARM AND THE PEOPLE RESTAURANT BUT JUST WATCHED A FEW MONTHS AGO.

ALL THESE ARE INITIATIVES THAT ARE FUNDED THROUGH THE COMMUNITY INVESTMENT TRUST. VERY UNIQUE STRUCTURE. BUT, WE ALWAYS KNEW THAT WE HAD TO ADD AN ADDITIONAL MINIMUM 72 UNITS IN PHASE TWO TO MAKE THE WHOLE THING SUSTAINABLE . SO, IT WAS REALLY JUST TIME TO COMPLETE THE MISSION. NOT REALLY A QUESTION OF SHOULD WE OR CAN WE, IT IS REALLY THAT WE HAVE TO. THE EIGHT ACRES IN THE TOP RIGHT PIECE HERE WHERE WE SEE PHASE TWO, THAT IS UP TO SEVEN STORIES TALL, 80% LOT COVERAGE. WE ARE PROBABLY LEAVING SOME DENSITY ON THE TABLE AND WHAT WE COULD DO BUT WE WANTED TO DO WHAT WE FELT LIKE FIT THE MISSION OF NORTH END AND HELPED US FULFILL OUR FINANCIAL GOALS. THE OTHER SIGNIFICANT PIECE OUT OF THE MARKET RATE PRODUCT IS THE VIVA BENE ACT. IT IS LUXURY SENIOR HOUSING, CONCIERGE MEDICINE, A REALLY UNIQUE CONCEPT. I THINK THAT THE THING I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT IS THAT WE START OUT A COMMUNITY MINDED PARTNER. OLD TOWNE AND OUR ENTIRE TEAM HAVE BEEN HEAD AND HEART COMMITTED TO THIS ENDEAVOR FOR SEVEN YEARS AND WE WANTED TO FIND A LIKE-MINDED PARTNER THAT WAS LOCALLY BASED TO HELP US WITH THIS NEXT PHASE.

[02:40:02]

WHAT WE HEAR OVER AND OVER IS PEOPLE WANT TO STAY IN CARMEL BUT THERE'S NOT A LOT OF GREAT SENIOR OPTIONS IN THE WALKABLE DOWNTOWN. OUR HOPE IS THIS WILL FREE UP HOUSING UNITS FOR OTHER RESIDENTS AND THEY CAN MOVE INTO THE NORTH AND ELEMENT AND BE ADJACENT TO THE MONON TRAIL. THIS PRODUCT TO THE LEFT, FRONT AND BACK OF A TOWNHOME STYLE PRODUCT . EACH VERTICALSLEEVE OF THE TOWNHOME UNITS IS TWO APARTMENT UNITS. THERE IS NO COMMON HALLWAYS. THERE IS A GROUND-LEVEL UNIT AND A SECOND LEVEL UNIT. REALLY UNIQUE VIEWS. WE SAVED A LOT OF GREEN SPACE ALONG THE CREEK CORRIDOR SO EVERY SINGLE UNIT LOOKS OUT FROM THEIR BALCONY AT A NICE GREEN SPACE AND SO THIS IS AN ELEVATED LIVING STYLE THAT WE THINK WOULD GO NICELY WITH WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN CREATED. THEN, THE IMAGE ON THE RIGHT IS A TRAIL CONNECTION.

THIS IS REALLY NOT RELEVANT TO OUR REQUEST BUT I WANTED TO MAKE CLEAR THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WILL GET COMPLETED AS PART OF THE PHASE TWO COMMITMENT THAT WE NEED FROM THE BEGINNING. NOW THAT WE ARE GETTING TO THE MONON TRAIL CONNECTION, WE WILL BUILD THE MONON TRAIL CONNECTION THAT WILL COMPLETE THE MONON TRAIL NETWORK AND WE ARE COMPLETING A PLAZA PARK SPACE. WE ARE WORKING WITH THE PARKS DEPARTMENT TO CURATE THIS SPACE AS A MEANINGFUL PUBLIC PARK THAT WILL BE OPEN TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC BUT ALSO CONNECT DOWN TO THE URBAN FORM. WE WANT TO CREATE AN INTERACTIVE EXPERIENCE. THE GOAL IS NOT JUST TO HAVE A SELF-CONTAINED COMMUNITY, WE WANT TO PULL THE BROADER COMMUNITY INTO THE DEVELOPMENT, LET THEM EXPERIENCE THE URBAN FARM AND UNDERSTAND WHAT THIS MISSION IS ABOUT. REBECCA AND I TALK ABOUT THE THING THAT HAS BROUGHT US THE MOST JOY IS SEEING HOW IT IS BROAD NOT JUST NORTH END BUT THE DOWNTOWN CARMEL COMMUNITY TOGETHER AND CREATED A LOT OF VOLUNTEER OPPORTUNITIES. WE WANT TO PULL THE BROADER COMMUNITY IN THROUGH THE PARK SPACE AND HAVE INTERPRETIVE SIGNAGE TO HELP THEM UNDERSTAND THE MISSION THAT HAS BEEN CREATED HERE. LIKE TO GO THROUGH THE FINANCIAL METRICS. I THINK HENRY IS GOING TO ADDRESS THOSE AT A HIGH LEVEL AND CLIENT TO TALK TO YOU FURTHER IN COMMITTEE. THANK YOU.

>> I JUST WANT TO ADD A COUPLE POINTS. JUSTIN MENTIONED WORKING WITH OUR PARKS DIRECTOR. THE APPLICATION OF PARK IMPACT FEES HAS BEEN NEGOTIATED AND WORKED OUT WITH MICHAEL, HE SERVED IT WITH HIS PARKS BOARD. AND, THE BUILDOUT OF THE SECOND PHASE IS WHAT ALLOWS THE SECOND HALF OF THE PARK IMPACT FEES TO COME IN AND A LOT OF THE TRAILS HERE ON SITE. RIGHT NOW, THIS IS AN EMPTY PARCEL OF LAND THAT GENERATES $20,000.00 A YEAR IN PROPERTY TAXES. ONCE IT IS COMPLETED, IT WILL GENERATE $463,000 SEVERANCE IN PROPERTY TAXES AND NEW MONEY GOING TO THE SCHOOLS ONCE BUILT. IT IS INCREASINGLY ASSESSED VALUE PER ACRE TO 4.26 MILLION. WE LOOK FORWARD TO ANSWERING ANY QUESTIONS HERE OR IN COMMITTEE. THANK YOU.

>> THIS WILL GO TO COMMITTEE BUT COUNCILLOR SNYDER.

>> TO EITHER HENRY OR JUSTIN I WANT TO PREFACE THIS WITH, JUSTIN, YOU ARE , YOU HAVE WORKED SO HARD OVER THE YEARS TO EARN THE PUBLIC TRUST AND I THINK THAT YOU HAVE ACCOMPLISHED THAT AND THE GENUINE GOOD THAT YOU TRY TO DO, I HAVE A RELATIVE THAT LIVES IN YOUR HOUSING, IT MEANS THE WORLD TO ME. THANK YOU. YOU MADE THE COMMENT, NOT CONDUCIVE TO SINGLE-FAMILY HOUSES. THAT IS WHAT IT WAS. IT WAS A SINGLE-FAMILY HOUSING. I HEAR YOU SAY, BECAUSE YOU PROBABLY WANTED TO PREEMPT THIS QUESTION, YOU HAVE NEGOTIATED WITH MICHAEL KLITZING ABOUT PARK IMPACT FEES. I NEED TO BETTER UNDERSTAND THE GARDEN. TO ME, MY FRUSTRATION WITH PARK IMPACT FEES, HAS ALWAYS BEEN THAT THEY ARE NOT THE GO TO PARKS OR PLUSES THAT AREN'T ALWAYS AVAILABLE TO THE . YOU'VE GOT A GARDEN, CAN I WALK THROUGH THE GARDEN THAT I COULD ANY OTHER PARK AT ANY TIME?

[02:45:04]

>> GREAT QUESTION BUT COUNCILLOR SNYDER. I WANT TO GO BACK A SLIDE. IMMEDIATELY TO THE RIGHT OF THE SENIOR LIVING HOLDING, THE LARGER STRUCTURE TO THE TOP RIGHT OF THE PAGE IS A APPROXIMATELY FIVE ACRE SITE THAT COMES DOWN TOWARD SMOKEY ROAD. IT WAS PUT IN THE SAME COMMUNITY TRUST SO IT COULD NOT BE PRIVATELY DEVELOPED. WE HAVE STRUCTURED AN AGREEMENT THAT PARKS WAS PRIVY TO THAT SHOULD WE NO LONGER USE IT FOR ITS INTENDED MISSION OF THIS PUBLICLY AVAILABLE GREEN SPACE, THAT I THINK THERE IS A TIMELINE ON IT, MAYBE 18 MONTHS, THAT THE OWNERSHIP WILL TRANSFER OVER TO THE CITY AND OR PARKS DEPARTMENT TO BE CONTINUING TO BE USED AS A PUBLIC SPACE. WHAT I MENTIONED ONCE RIGHT NOW ALL PUBLIC ACCESS WILL BE OFF OF SMOKEY ROAD. THE URBAN FARM SPACE, MOST PEOPLE HAVE SEEN THIS BUT, FOR THE RECORD, IT IS NOT JUST CROPS PLANTED IN THE GROUND. IT IS APPROXIMATELY HALF $1 MILLION GREENHOUSE STRUCTURE THAT ALLOWS FOR YEAR-ROUND GROWING. THERE IS A SHIP WITH THE FARM TO TABLE RESTAURANT WHERE THEY WILL BY THE PRODUCE FROM THAT SPACE TO BE USED IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. IT ALSO PROVIDES MEANINGFUL EMPLOYMENT. SEVERAL OF OUR IDD RESIDENTS LIVE IN THE NORTH END AND WORK IN THE URBAN FARM SPACE AND WILL BE UP TO CONTINUE THAT IMPLEMENT YEAR-ROUND TO THE GREENHOUSE FACILITY. THERE IS AN EDUCATIONAL COMPONENT. WE HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH CARMEL SCHOOLS AND MAKE SURE THAT THIS IS A SPACE WHERE THEY CAN COME TO FIELD TRIPS AND UNDERSTAND THE ECOLOGY, THE URBAN FARMING BUT ALSO SEE ABOUT THIS UNIQUE COMMUNITY COLLABORATION AND VOLUNTEER OPPORTUNITY. ALL THAT EXISTS. WE HAVE PHILOSOPHICALLY SUPPORTED STAFF MEMBER THAT HAS A TITLE, WE ARE PAYING FOR THAT JUST BECAUSE WE WANT TO SEE THIS MISSION BEFORE THE REVENUES AVAILABLE. SO, THE PLAZA, TRAIL CONNECTION, ALL THAT WAS CONTEMPLATED IN THE SOURCES AND USES OF THE PARK IMPACT FEES, NOW WE ARE JUST COMPLETING THE FINAL COMMITMENT THAT WAS MADE TO HAVE A PUBLIC PARK ADJACENT TO THE MONON TRAIL THAT LOOKS AT THIS FIVE ACRE GREEN SPACE PLANTED WITH YEAR-ROUND WILDFLOWERS . IT IS A PUBLICLY AVAILABLE PARK SPACE ADJACENT TO THE TRIAL AND ATRIAL NETWORK THAT LEADS INTO THE URBAN FORM.

IT IS ALL PUBLICLY AVAILABLE AND WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE YOU KNEW THAT THEY HAD ACCESS TO THIS BY PUTTING INTUITIVE SIGNAGE THERE SO THEY COULD SEE A TRAIL NETWORK THAT LEADS THEM THROUGH

THE FARM SPACE. >> THANK YOU. THAT ANSWERS A LOT OF MY QUESTIONS. I HAVE PLENTY MORE BUT I WILL SAVE THEM. THANK YOU FOR TRYING TO PROMOTE SEVERAL DIFFERENT TYPES OF LIFESTYLES, ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE WHERE IT MIGHT BE MORE DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO ENJOY SOMETHING LIKE THIS. STILL NOT SURE I LOVE IT BUT I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU AND YOUR EFFORTS.

>> COUNCILLOR WORRELL. >> THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT.

JUSTIN, REMEMBER THIS WHEN THIS WAS JUST A TWINKLE IN YOUR EYE AND IT IS GREAT TO SEE HOW FAR IT HAS COME AND YOU HAVE HONORED THE PROMISES THAT YOU MADE. I APPRECIATE THAT AND I HEAR NOTHING BUT GREAT THINGS ABOUT THE SPECIALIZED HOUSING THAT YOU HAVE. KEEP IT GOING. THE , NANCY TATUM SPOKE TONIGHT, SHE FILLED OUT A BLUE CARD. HER CONCERN WAS FOR USE. SHE MADE A COUPLE OF SUGGESTIONS. I WAS CURIOUS, WHEN I LOOK AT THIS RENDERING THAT YOU HAVE, THIS LOOKS REALLY GOOD TO ME. I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD COMMENT, FOR ANYONE THAT MIGHT BE WATCHING AND IS CONCERNED ABOUT DEVELOPMENT AND LOSS OF TREES. FIRST OF ALL, IN THIS RENDERING, THE TREES THAT ARE THERE THAT ARE LUSH AND FULL, WHICH YOU GET IT IS A RENDERING, IS THERE FORCED THERE NOW, ARE THERE STANDING GROVES OF TREES AND CAN YOU SPEAK TO THAT AS TO WHAT YOU MIGHT BE SAVING? I'M NOT ASKING YOU TO

NOT CUT DOWN A TREE . >> WHAT YOU SEE HERE IS LARGELY FACTUAL. THESE ARE EXISTING TREE LINES THAT WE PLAN TO THE ENTIRETY OF THE PROJECT AROUND. I CAN TELL YOU THERE ARE BULKY MEMBERS AROUND INCLUDING AVENUE DEVELOPMENT FOLKS AND MY TEAM MEMBERS WHO HAVE BEEN FRUSTRATED WITH ME OVER THE LAST YEAR AND HOW I HAVE CONTINUED TO ASK THEM TO RESEARCH THE BUILDINGS AROUND SPECIFIC STRANDS OF TREES. IT IS BOTH, FOR THE RECORD, I LIVE ADJACENT TO THIS. AS A DEVELOPMENT PRACTICE,

[02:50:04]

>> IS THE REPRESENTATIVE OF ACTUAL?

>> YES. >> COUNCILLOR MINNAAR.

>> JUSTIN, YOU NEVER CEASE TO AMAZE ME WITH YOUR PARTNERSHIPS AND WHAT YOU DO AROUND THE CITY. SITTING ON THE HOUSING COMMISSION , REALIZING THAT YOU ARE REALLY, REALLY THINKING ABOUT THE MULTIGENERATIONAL LIVING IS A HUGE BENEFIT.

COUNCILLOR JOSHI CAN TALK TO THAT, SHE FINDS IT VERY IMPORTANT. SO DO I. I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU AGAIN . LOVE IT, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TAKING ME THROUGH THE NORTH END AND I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING WHAT THIS PROJECT HAS TO BRING. THANK YOU.

AND GOOD JOB BRINGING CARLSBAD. MY GOODNESS, THANK YOU.

>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? COUNCILLOR LOCKE?

>> THE COLUMNS ARE REALLY APARTMENTS, RIGHT? THEY JUST

LOOK LIKE TOWNHOMES? >> YES. THEY ARE FOR RENT UNITS THAT ARE LIKE A TOWNHOME BUT THERE IS A MAIN LEVEL UNIT AND A SECOND LEVEL UNIT. THE SECOND LEVEL UNIT OCCUPIES THE SECOND AND THIRD LEVEL. IF YOU LOOK AT THE IMAGE, KIND OF HARD TO SEE BUT THERE IS A STAIRCASE THAT TAKES YOU UP TO THE SECOND LEVEL

UNIT. >> THE 72, IS THAT ALL THE APARTMENT UNITS OR IS THAT 72÷2 FOR THE TWO APARTMENTS?

>> 72 TOTAL. >> I GET MY HAIRCUT AT MACHO'S.

I AM DISHEVELED NOW BUT IT IS A GREAT PLACE TO GET YOUR HAIR CUT. AMENITIES WISE, THIS IS A PART OF CARMEL THAT HAS BEEN THE PAST IS GREAT, IT HAS BEEN A WONDERFUL ROAD FOR 40 YEARS TO GET FROM ONE SIDE OF TOWN TO THE OTHER BUT THIS CHANGES DRAMATICALLY WITH SCOPE, SPECIFICALLY WITH THE HIGH SCHOOL DOWN THE ROAD A LITTLE. A MAJOR ADDITION OF HUMANS MAKES WHAT IT IS PROBABLY THE HARDEST COMMUTE OUT OF THE OUTFLOW PARKING LOT TO THE WEST SIDE WAY HARDER. I'M WONDERING HOW JUST IMPACT WAYS WE ARE THINKING ABOUT THAT AND ENSURING THAT AS WE BUILD AND ADD MORE TO THIS AREA THAT WE ARE NOT CONGESTING AN AREA OF THE CITY THAT IS ALREADY A MESS AND FOR THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WENT INTO THE CONVERSATIONS IN 2018. MY CONCERN IS THAT MACHO'S WILL BE WAY MORE CROWDED. THERE ARE NOT A TON OF AMENITIES IN THIS SPACE. IT IS REALLY TWO RESTAURANTS, THE BARBER, GREAT COFFEE SHOP, PASTRY SHOP THAT IS EVEN BETTER. THE IDEA OF THIS IS NOT SUPER ADDITIVE TO THE INFRASTRUCTURE OF THE AMENITIES FOR THE COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE. AS YOU LOOK AT THAT AND MAYBE, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS GOING TO LAND USE, I CAN JUST ASKING THE QUESTIONS NOW BECAUSE I WOULD LOVE TO TAKE ON HOW ADDING THIS MANY HOUSING UNITS IS NOT A DRASTIC IMPACT ON THIS PART OF THE CITY.

>> WE ALWAYS HAD PLANNED FOR A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT PHASE TWO. IF WE GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL PLANNING DOCUMENTS THAT WERE APPROVED BY LEVEL AND PLANNING COMMISSION, WE HAD FAR MORE UNITS IN PHASE TWO. SOME CITIES LIKE WHAT WE LEFT ON THE TABLE, OTHERS PREFER THAT WE ADD IT. I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU KNEW THAT WE HAD TRAFFIC FLOW FOR PHASE TWO AND THAT IS WHY THERE IS A NEW ROUNDABOUT IN KIND OF A UNIQUE SPOT. WE WORKED WITH THE CITY ENGINEER AND WE MEASURED TRAFFIC AND SAID WHERE DOES THE MAXIMUM BACKUP FROM CARMEL HIGH SCHOOL EXTEND TO AT THE WORST TIME AND AROUND ABOUT WAS PLANNED TO EXTEND ALL OF NORTH END AND TAKE THE TRAFFIC OFF OF SMOKEY BEFORE YOU GOT TO THE BACKUP THE PHASE TWO IS SERVED OFF OF A NEW FRONTAGE ROAD THAT WILL EXTEND ADJACENT TO US 31. TRAFFIC FLOW HAS BEEN PLAYED FOR FOR INGRESS AND EGRESS OUT OF THAT PHASE TWO. AS FAR AS AMENITIES GO, THE VIVA BENNE WILL HAVE ITS OWN INTERNAL AMENITIES, ITS OWN POOL, ITS OWN FITNESS, IT WILL NOT IMPACT THE PHASE ONE. WE ONLY HAVE 168 UNITS IN PHASE ONE, 40 OF WHICH ARE ATTAINABLE. TYPICAL MARKET RATE APARTMENT DEVELOP IT IS 202

[02:55:12]

THE 168 ARE NOT MARKET RATE. 120 OUR MARKET RATE, 40 ARE ATTAINABLE. 120 ARE SUPPORTING THE OPERATIONAL EXPENSES OF THOSE 40. IT IS IMPERATIVE WE ADD 270. WE ARE SUBSIDIZING OUR OPERATIONAL EXPENSES. WE ARE ADDING MORE UNITS ONE WAY OR THE OTHER TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN PAY OUR BILLS. WE ALSO PLAN FOR THAT DENSITY OF HOUSING UNITS WHAT WE DID OUR AMENITIES FOR PHASE ONE. PEOPLE WALK INTO A GYM IN THE BUILDING. PEOPLE WALK IN AND GO THIS IS ENORMOUS, IT IS BIGGER THAN ANY GYM IN ANY DEVELOPMENT IN CARMEL. IT IS BECAUSE WE PLAN FOR PHASE TWO.

SAME WITH THE POOL FACILITY. WE CONTEMPLATED ALL OF THIS WHAT WE DID PHASE ONE THE WE THOUGHT WE MIGHT BE ADDING WELL IN EXCESS OF 120 UNITS AND REPAIRED IT BACK.

>> I HAD A LONG CONVERSATION WITH BOTH THE CITY ENGINEER AND OUR CHIEF CONSTRUCTION OFFICER BECAUSE THAT WAS MY BIGGEST CONCERN. THE FIRST RESPONSE WAS, WELL, WE CAN WIDEN THE BRIDGE IF WE NEED TO IS THAT WE ARE NEVER TOUCHING THE BRIDGE AGAIN. I'M NOT INTERESTED IN ANOTHER FOUR-YEAR PROJECT. BUT, THAT WAS TONGUE IN CHEEK WE DID GO THROUGH ALL THE DATA IN THE TRAFFIC COUNTS. AND, AS MUCH AS I DO BELIEVE IT IS OUR JOB TO JUST TALK AND BLOWHOLES IN EVERYTHING, I AM SATISFIED WITH TRAFFIC BECAUSE THAT WAS MY BIGGEST HEART ACHE AND THE DATA JUST DOESN'T SUPPORT WITH THIS NUMBER OF PEOPLE, EVEN AT A 2.5 TIMES MULTIPLIER, THE TRAFFIC IMPACT MORE THAN IF THE HOSPITAL HAD A HUGE INFLUX AND PEOPLE WANTING TO GO EAST. I WANTED TO CONFIRM, THIS WILL BE GOING, SINCE THE TURBINE IS NOT HERE,

TO THE LESSER COMMITTEE? >> ALL COMMITTEES ARE EQUAL BUT THIS WILL BE GOING TO USUALLY WITH BONDS AND SPLITS, IT WILL GO TO FINANCE AND UTILITIES RULES COMMITTEE. WITHOUT ANY OBJECTION, THAT IS WHERE I WILL SEND THIS, ARE THERE ANY OTHER

[14.b. Resolution CC-05-05-25-01; A Resolution of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Recommending Consideration of an Amendment to the Unified Development Ordinance for the City and Referring the Same to the Carmel Plan Commission for Recommendation; Sponsor(s):Councilor(s) Ayers, Joshi, Minnaar and Snyder. ]

PRESENTATION. >> ALL RIGHT. INTO OUR LAST ITEM ON NEW BUSINESS, RESOLUTION CC-05-05-25-01, A RESOLUTION OF THE COMMON COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF CARMEL, INDIANA, RECOMMENDING CONSIDERATION OF AN AMENDMENT TO THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE FOR THE CITY AND FROM THE SINK TO THE LEVEL PLANNING COMMISSION FOR ACCOMMODATIONS, SPONSORS OR COUNCILLOR AYERS , COUNCILLOR JOSHI, COUNCILLOR MINNAAR AND COUNCILLOR SNYDER.

MOTION. >> SECOND.

>> MOVED IT INTRODUCED. COUNCILLOR SNYDER, WHICH YOU

READ THE SYNOPSIS. >> THIS REFERS A PROPOSAL TO 2.20, 2.21, AND 9.03 OF THE CARMEL UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE TO THE CARMEL ADVISORY PLAN COMMISSION FOR PUBLIC HEARING AND RECOGNITION TO THE COMMON COUNCIL. THIS IS AN ON THE BUS CLEANUP OF A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT ITEMS WE HAVE BEEN WORKING ON WITH PLENTY OF INPUT OVER THE LAST YEAR AND FOUR MONTHS, FIVE MONTHS. THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF STUDY THAT HAS GONE INTO THESE CHANGES. I WILL BE HONEST, I THOUGHT WE WOULD HAVE GOTTEN THROUGH THE WHOLE UDO BY NOW. WE NEED A MORALE BOOST. NOT ONLY FOR THE COMMITTEE BUT FOR THE COMMUNITY THAT ALL OF THIS HARD WORK SHOWS FOR SOMETHING. I WHOLEHEARTEDLY SUPPORT EVERYTHING IN HERE, CAN YOU RATTLE OFF SOME OF THE

HIGHLIGHTS PLEASE, SERGE? >> THIS IS THE RESULT OF A LONG WORK THAT THE LAND-USE COMMITTEE HAS DONE IN REVIEWING THE UDO .

IT IS THE FIRST STEP IN SEVERAL AMENDMENTS, AND BEFORE YOU. IT WILL BE IN ARTICLE 1 THIS TIME THAT WILL BE COMING TO LAND-USE COMMITTEE IN ABOUT TWO WEEKS. THIS ONE STARTS WITH BREAD AND BUTTER OF WHAT PLANNING COMMISSION DOES. COUNCILLOR MINNAAR SITS ON PLANNING COMMISSION AND KNOWS WHAT THE BREAD AND BUTTER OF PLANNING COMMISSION IS DEVELOPMENT PLAN AND ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN EXTERIOR LIGHTING AND SIGNAGE PROCESSES. A LOT OF PROJECTS OUTSIDE OF A COUPLE WILL GO THROUGH THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN ADELS IT IS A GRUELING PROCESS WHERE PLANNING COMMISSION WOULD LOOK AT THE PROJECT FROM ALL

[03:00:04]

ALSO, WHAT IT CREATED AT THE TIME OF THE WRITING OF THE UDO, AND EXCLUSION OF B1 AND B2 OF DEVELOPMENT PERSPECTIVE IS COMMINGLING OF CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN IN THAT ADELS AND 9.03. IF YOU LOOK AT THE UDO TODAY, YOU WILL SEE SIMILAR CONSIDERATIONS IN THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN AND THE ADELS, EVEN THOUGH THE PROCESSES FOR APPROVAL ARE QUITE DIFFERENT.

THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN REQUIRES A PUBLIC HEARING. IT IS THE STRUCTURE OF THAT IS REGULATED MORE BY STATE CODE. ADELS DOES NOT REQUIRE A PUBLIC HEARING. IT REQUIRES A PUBLIC MEETING BUT THE PUBLIC HEARING IS NOT INCLUDED IN THE STRUCTURE.

ADDING THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN TO B1 AND B2 ALLOWED US TO COMPLETELY SEPARATE THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN AND ADELS PROCESSES AND NOT COMMINGLE THE SUPPORT CONSIDERATIONS. ALL THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN CRITERIA ARE NOW IN THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN. ALL THE ADELS CRITERIA ARE NOW IN THE ADELS. SO, YOU WILL SEE A LOT OF RED IN THIS ORDINANCE BUT A LOT OF IT IS QUITE CERTAIN PARTS OF IT THAT DON'T BELONG IN ONE AND LEAVING THE TO THE PART WHERE IT ACTUALLY DOES BELONG. ANOTHER BIG IMPROVEMENT, IN MY OPINION, IT IMPROVES, SUPPLEMENTS, STREETLIGHTS, AND SIGNIFIES THE PROCESS ITSELF. WE HAD A LOT OF DISCUSSIONS ON HOW UDO IT IS A BIG DOCUMENT. IF ANYBODY WORKED WITH IT, IT IS OVER 500 PAGES. IT CAN BE VERY HARD TO DIGEST, ESPECIALLY FOR DEVELOPERS OR APPLICANTS WHO EITHER CAN'T AFFORD LEGAL COUNSEL OR SOME SORT OF REPRESENTATION. IT IS VERY HARD TO GET TO UDO. WE ADDED QUITE A BIT OF EXPLANATORY PARAGRAPHS, EXPLANATORY NOTES, REFERENCES AND EXAMPLES. YOU WILL SEE A LOT OF THOSE THROUGHOUT. WE ALSO STREAMLINE WHAT WILL BE CONSIDERED BY PLANNING COMMISSION AND WHAT PLANNING COMMISSION CONSIDERS RIGHT NOW THAT WASN'T PART OF UDO. IT WAS IMPLIED BUT NOW IT IS ALL SPELLED OUT. YOU WILL SEE A LOT OF CHANGES, ESPECIALLY IN ADELS. DEVELOPMENT PLAN IS MODIFIED BY STATE LAW. WE HAD A LITTLE BIT LESS ROOM TO INCLUDE THINGS.

ADELS, IT WAS VERY BROADLY DEFINED. VERY FEW CRITERIA AND VERY HARD TO IN PRACTICAL TERMS LIST WHAT IT ACTUALLY MEANS. NOW IT ADDS QUITE A FEW CRITERIA, ADDITIONAL CRITERIA FOR ADELS THAT REFLECTS WHAT HAPPENS ON A PLANNING COMMISSION LEVEL. THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS PLANNING COMMISSIONERS ASKED FROM THE APPLICANTS ROUTINELY. NOW THEY ARE ALL LISTED IN THE UDO AMENDMENT. ANOTHER BIGGEST SUBSTANTIVE AMENDMENT , COUNCILLOR SNYDER WAS VOCAL ABOUT THIS , FOR THE FIRST TIME,

[03:05:02]

>> I WANT TO EXPLAIN THE IMPETUS FOR THIS AS PEOPLE THINK THIS IS GEARED TOWARD THE LARGE DEVELOPMENTS THAT WE SEE. THAT IS 1% OF WHAT IS DEALT WITH. REALLY, THIS IS A COLLECTIVE EFFORT ABOUT ENSURING THE CITY OF CARMEL PROMOTES THE BEST CUSTOMER SERVICE TO SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS. RIGHT NOW, THIS KIND OF IMPROVEMENT, TECHNICALLY, THIS IS MORE GEARED TOWARD SMALL BUSINESS OWNER THAT FOR ONE REASON OR ANOTHER AT TIMES HAS BEEN STRUCK OUT. RECENTLY, THERE WAS ONE FOR ALMOST 2 YEARS . SO, IT IS CHECKS AND BALANCES ON BOTH. WE EXPECT THE DEVELOPER, WHICH, IN THIS CASE IS A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER TRYING TO DO SOMETHING, AND THE CITY TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO ENSURE THAT THEY ARE UNNECESSARY ROADBLOCKS BECAUSE A MONTH DELAY FOR THE SMALL GUY IS OUR MORTGAGE PAYMENT. THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE SMALL BUSINESS IS TAKEN CARE OF AND WELCOMED AND WE DO EVERYTHING WE CAN WHILE BEING PRUDENT TO BE SURE THEY CAN GET WHAT THEY NEED DONE AS FAST AS POSSIBLE. WHEN WE HEAR THE WORD DEVELOPER, IT IS NOT GEARED TOWARD THE BIG DEVELOPMENTS.

>> BEFORE I OPENED IT UP FOR QUESTIONS, THIS IS A DIFFERENT RESOLUTION. THIS ORIGINATED IN COMMITTEE. THE LAND-USE AND SPECIAL STUDIES COMMITTEE SPENT WHAT TO SAY MONTHS BUT IT WAS PROBABLY MORE THAN A YEAR CRAFTING THE ATTACHED ORDINANCE TO THIS RESOLUTION. I WILL NOT BE SENDING US BACK TO THE LAND-USE COMMITTEE SINCE THEY HAVE ALREADY DEALT WITH IT. I DO UNDERSTAND THAT WHILE WE HAVE FOLLOWED UP WITH THE COUNSELORS WHO ARE NOT ON THAT COMMITTEE, THEY DO NEED TIME TO DIGEST SOME OF THESE CHANGES. BECAUSE THIS IS A RESOLUTION THAT GOES TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION, IF YOU WERE TO PASS IT TONIGHT, THE RESOLUTION, I'M GOING TO LAYOUT OPTIONS. THE ORDINANCE WITH THE RESOLUTION GOES TO PLANNING COMMISSION, THEY CONSIDER IT, IT COMES BACK TO CITY COUNCIL FOR ANOTHER APPROVAL. GIVING THE OTHER COUNSELORS CHANCE TO GET FAMILIAR AND, IF AT THAT TIME COUNSELORS WHO WORKED ON THE LAND-USE COMMITTEE SAY AND WHAT OTHER BACK AT IT, I WOULD SEND THIS TO FINANCE COMMITTEE IF YOU FELT THAT YOU NEEDED MORE TIME TO LOOK AT IT. IT WOULD BE GOING BACK TO LAND-USE TONIGHT BECAUSE IT ALREADY WAS LAND-USE. ANY THOUGHTS ON HOW WE WOULD LIKE TO PROCEED, WHETHER WE CAN TAKE ACTION TO LIGHT OR OTHER OPTIONS? COUNCILLOR LOCKE.

>> I SENT IT ON THE LAND-USE , WHERE WE TALKED ABOUT THE AMENDMENTS TO THIS POINT, THE THOROUGHNESS OF THE FOUR OF YOU, THE FIVE OF YOU AND THERE WERE OTHER PEOPLE THERE. THE IDEA OF HOW MUCH EFFORT AND ENERGY PUT INTO THIS OVERTIME TO ENSURE THAT IT FIT WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT GIVES ME CONFIDENCE.

>> COUNCILLOR WORRELL, ANY THOUGHTS?

[03:10:01]

>> I HAVE ONE QUICK QUESTION . I FEEL COMFORTABLE VOTING ON THIS TONIGHT. WILL THE COMMITTEE BE ALSO ATTACKING THE SIGNED

SECTION OF THE UDO? >> I DID BRING THAT UP IN OUR LAST LAND-USE MEETING, THAT I WANTED TO LOOK AT OUR SIGNAGE REQUIREMENTS, BUT MORE SPECIFICALLY, ENSURING THAT WHAT IS NORMAL FOR MOST OF CARMEL AS OPPOSED TO MIDTOWN AND DOWNTOWN, NO CONVERSATIONS HAVE BEEN HAD TO GET , IT WASN'T INTRODUCED IN THE LAST MEETING. WE WILL BE TALKING ABOUT IT.

>> I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IS GOING TO BE ADDRESSED. THANK

YOU. >> TO CLARIFY, WHEN IT COMES BACK FROM PLANNING COMMISSION, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO GO BACK INTO COMMITTEE. THROWING THAT OUT THERE IF PEOPLE NEEDED MORE TIME. WITH THAT, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? WOULD WE ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ACT ON THE SOLUTION TONIGHT?

>> SECOND. >> WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND TO ACT ON THE RESOLUTION. PLEASE VOTE.

[15. AGENDA ADD-ON ITEMS]

>> ALL RIGHT. PASSES 7-0. THAT IS IT FOR NEW BUSINESS. WE DID HAVE AN AGENDA AT ON ITEM. IF YOU REMEMBER THE PUBLIC, IT WAS AT THE FRONT TABLE WHEN YOU CAME IN. I AM GOING TO READ THE MEMORANDUM AND THAT WE WILL TAKE A VOTE ON WHETHER TO ADD IT TO THE AGENDA. "DEAR COUNCIL MEMBERS, WE WOULD APPRECIATE THE APPROVAL OF YOU TO ADD ORDINANCE NUMBER 3-27-07-25, WHICH IS THE LISTED REQUIREMENTS FOR NONPROFIT ORGANIZATIONS RECEIVING PUBLIC SUPPORT TO THE FIFTH, 2025 CARMEL COMMON COUNCIL AGENDA. SINCERELY, COUNCILLOR AASEN, CLERK JACOB QUINN. THE ORDINANCE IS HERE. FIRST, THEY WOULD BE A MOTION TO ADDED TO THE AGENDA, THAT WE WOULD INTRODUCE IT. MOTION TO ADD? SECOND? ALL RIGHT, PLEASE VOTE. DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO INTRODUCE? ALL RIGHT. COUNCILLOR WORRELL, WOULD YOU READ THE

SYNOPSIS? >> THIS IS AN ORDINANCE TO ADD TO THE REQUIREMENTS FOR NONPROFITS RECEIVING PUBLIC

SUPPORT FROM THE CITY. >> BEFORE WE GET INTO CONVERSATION, BEFORE HE LEFT, COUNCILLOR GREEN HAD TO LEAVE BUT HE ASKED WE SEND THIS TO COMMITTEE. I ALWAYS TRY TO RESPECT COUNCIL WISHES. WE WILL SEND THIS TO COMMITTEE TONIGHT.

ANY COUNCIL QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ON THIS? COUNCILLOR

SNYDER. >> MAYBE COUNCILLOR LOCKE OR COUNCILLOR WORRELL SHOULD BE THE ONE BUT I DO WHAT WAS FINE BUT THIS IS. JUST SO THE COUNCIL KNOWS WHERE THIS IS HEADING.

I'M NOT GOING TO TOUCH ON THE DETAILS BUT I DO WANT TO SAY THAT I LOVE THIS BECAUSE IT STARTS TO TAKE SOME BALANCE IS HOW OUR BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS ARE CREATED.

>> DO WE WANT TO CALL, TED, WOULD YOU COME UP AND EXPLAIN

WHAT THIS ORDINANCE DOES? >> THANK YOU, COUNCIL. THIS ORDINANCE FIRST ADDS A NEW ARTICLE TO CHAPTER 2 IT STARTS BY DEFINING WHAT AN AFFILIATED ENTITY IS. IT IS A BROAD TERM.

WE NARROWED IT DOWN TO NONPROFIT ORGANIZATIONS. YOU HAVE HEARD SUPPORTING ORGANIZATION A LOT TONIGHT. THAT IS INCLUDED. A NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION WITH MEMBERS OF THE GOVERNING BODY APPOINTED BY CITY OFFICIALS, AGENTS, EMPLOYEES UNDER A OFFICIAL CAPACITY. A NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION UTILIZED BY THE CITY TO INDIRECTLY OR DIRECTLY SUPPORT OR ACCEPT DONATIONS FROM SOURCES OTHER THAN DIRECTX OR FEE REVENUE. NONPROFIT COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION, FINALLY, A NONPROFIT THAT RECEIVES AT LEAST $25,000 A YEAR RECEIVED NOT THROUGH NORMAL GRANT PROCESS OR PROCESS THAT IS APPROPRIATED BY THE CITY

COUNCIL. >> TO SUMMARIES, FOR AN ORGANIZATION THAT RECEIVES FINANCIAL SUPPORT, IF THEY WANT TO CONTINUE TO RECEIVE FINANCIAL SUPPORT, THEY MUST ADD AN APPOINTEE THAT IS APPOINTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL AND THEN THE MAYORAL APPOINTEES WOULD NEED TO BE APPROVED BY THE CITY COUNCIL?

>> THAT IS THE NEXT STEP. THERE ARE CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS THESE AFFILIATED ORGANIZATIONS HAVE TO COMPLY WITH TO CONTINUE TO RECEIVE PUBLIC SUPPORT, WHICH IS FOR PUBLIC FUNDS OR IN-KIND SUPPORT, CITY RESOURCES. SO, THIS STARTS AS OF JULY 1ST. AN

[03:15:02]

COUNCIL. >> COUNCILLOR MINNAAR.

>> JUST VERY QUICKLY , MAYBE YOU CAN ANSWER THIS FOR ME, WITH ALL THE GOVERNING DOCUMENTS SURROUNDING THESE AFFILIATES, WOULD THEY NEED TO ALSO CHANGE THE GOVERNING DOCUMENTS, OR WITH

THIS JUST BE A BLANKET? >> WE CAN'T FORCE ORGANIZATIONS TO CHANGE THE GOVERNING DOCUMENTS THAT WE CAN TIGHTEN IT TO FUNDS THEY RECEIVE FROM THE CITY. IF THE ORGANIZATION WISHES TO CONTINUE TO RECEIVE CITY SUPPORT, THEY HAVE TO AMEND THE

GOVERNING DOCUMENTS. >> YOU ANSWER THE QUESTION,

THANK YOU. >> COUNCILLOR WORRELL.

>> OKAY. I'M GLAD THIS IS GOING TO COMMITTEE BECAUSE I THINK IT NEEDS SOME WORK. FOR THIS CONVERSATION, CAN WE, SO, CAN WE JUST DEFINE OR TRY AND GIVE SOME CONTEXT TO ME BUT MAYBE ANYONE THAT IS LISTENING, WHAT KIND OF ORGANIZATION DOES NOT FALL UNDER THIS, IF WE COULD TALK ABOUT THAT? I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE. THE ROTARY CLUB OF CARMEL PUTS ON CARMEL FEST. THEY ARE A NONPROFIT 501(C)(3). THEY HAVE THEIR OWN BOARD BUT ONCE THE ROTARY CLUB. HOWEVER, THEY RECEIVE SOME MONEY FROM CARMEL AS A SPONSOR FOR THE FIREWORKS. DOES THAT FALL UNDER THIS

ENTITY? >> IT WOULD NOT BE DEFINED AS AN

AFFILIATED ENTITY, NO. >> OKAY, AFFILIATED ENTITY, IS THAT JUST THE FOUR WE TALKED ABOUT DURING THE REVIEW, DURING THE AFFILIATE REVIEW COMMITTEE?

>> ESSENTIALLY, YES. NO, THERE COULD BE OTHER ORGANIZATIONS THAT ALSO FALL UNDER THAT . THOSE FOUR WITH.

>> GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING ELSE THAT WOULD FALL UNDER THAT, IF WE ARE USING THE TERMINOLOGY OF AFFILIATED

ENTITY. >> I'M NOT SURE WHAT ALL ELSE IS OUT THERE. THERE MAY BE OTHER WORDS. LET'S SAY ALL THE MEMBERS ARE SUPPORTED BY THE MAYOR, THOSE WOULD BE DONE. IF YOU HAVE A BUILDING CORPORATION, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT WOULD QUALIFY. THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED A PUBLIC AGENCY. WE TRY TO COVER THINGS LIKE THE ROTARY CLUB, THINGS LIKE THIS ENTITY, THINGS THAT ARE STANDALONE , THAT RECEIVE CITY FUNDS AND THAT IS GREAT, THAT IS FINE BUT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE GO THROUGH AN ACTUAL GROUP PROCESS WHERE YOU ARE RECEIVING THESE FUN HAVE REPORTING REQUIREMENTS BACK.

>> I WOULD ASK YOU TO LOOK AT 204D. I WANT TO MAKE SURE I READING THIS RIGHT. THIS IS ON THE REQUIREMENTS. ANY NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION RECEIVING PUBLIC SUPPORT THROUGH A GRANT MUST FOLLOW A PROCESS ESTABLISHED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. SO, THAT , DOESN'T THAT CONTRADICT WHAT YOU JUST SAID?

>> I DON'T THINK IT DOES. IT MEANS THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, THE ROTARY CLUB WITH THE SYMPHONY WERE TO RECEIVE FUNDS, THEY

FOLLOW THE GRANT PROCESS. >>, FOLLOW THE GRANT PROCESS.

>> NOT FOLLOW THIS PROCESS, FOLLOW THE GRANT PROCESS. IT IS KIND OF BROAD. I DON'T THINK THERE WAS A FORMAL GROUP PROCESS. TO THE EXTENT THAT THERE IS NOT, MAYBE THERE SHOULD BE. AS FAR AS THERE ARE NO REFUNDS, HERE ARE YOUR REPORTING OBLIGATIONS BACK TO US ON WHAT YOU DO WITH THESE FUNDS.

>> MAYBE I WANT TO CLARIFY A LITTLE BIT SORT OF READING THE ROOM. IF IT IS A LINE ITEM IN THE BUDGET, IT IS NOT, TO MY UNDERSTANDING, IT WOULD NOT BE SUBJECT? THE CENTER FOR PERFORMING ARTS, WHICH WE HAVE LEGAL OBLIGATIONS TO ITS CONTRACT WITH, WOULD NOT FALL INTO THIS AS LONG AS IT REMAINED

AN ITEM IN THE BUDGET? >> IT WOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AN

AFFILIATED ENTITY, CORRECT. >> THE SIZE OF THE EXISTING BOARD MEMBERS MUST BE APPROVED BY A VOTE OF THE CITY COUNCIL.

[03:20:04]

CONTINUE TO RECEIVE SUPPORT? >> IF THEY WOULD LIKE TO RECEIVE SUPPORT DURING THE NEXT YEAR BUDGET CYCLE, BUYING JULY 1ST, THEY WOULD NEED TO NOTIFY BOARD MEMBERS.

>> COUNCILLOR SNYDER. >> AS YOU HAVE LOOKED AT THIS IN FINANCE, ONE THING I WOULD LIKE YOU TO BE COGNIZANT OF IS ANY NONE , ANY NOT-FOR-PROFIT, WHO DO THEY CALL TO MAKE SURE? I COULD SEE WHERE THERE COULD BE QUESTIONS, WANT TO MAKE SURE, IF ROTARY DOESN'T KNOW, WHO DO THEY CALL? IF WE COULD JUST MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS SOMEBODY, OR, EVEN BETTER, CAN WE GET A LIST OF ALL OF OUR AFFILIATES, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM AND SAY IT

REALLY APPLIES TO THIS? >> COUNCILLOR WORRELL .

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY, I WAS WONDERING, THE BE IF SAM HAD ANYTHING TO ADD. I SEE YOU ARE STANDING THERE SO I AM WONDERING IF SHE IS READY TO CLARIFY ANY OF THIS.

>> HAPPY TO DEFER MY TIME. >> I DON'T KNOW THAT MY COMMENTS ARE CLARIFYING COMMENTS SO MUCH AS WE JUST RESERVED THIS LATE THIS AFTERNOON. OUR OFFICE HAS NOT HAD AN OPPORTUNITY AT THIS POINT TO TRULY REVIEW THE SEND RESEARCH AND MEET WITH THE ARE NOT CONCERNS THERE WITH THAT. JUST AT FIRST BLUSH, IT GIVES THE APPEARANCE OF A SIGNIFICANT OVERREACH SO I WANTED TO MENTION THAT TO THIS BODY. WE ARE RESPECTFUL OF YOU SO I WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT THAT IS A CONCERN THAT WE HAVE. I ALSO THINK THERE ARE SECTIONS THAT HAVE THE POSSIBILITY OF CONFLICTING WITH STATE STATUTE. THAT IS SOMETHING OUR OFFICE WOULD BE LOOKING AT. THIS POINT, I THINK YOU PROBABLY HAVE MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT IT SINCE WE HAVEN'T HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO THOROUGHLY VETTED THROUGH OUR OWN RESEARCH AND WHATNOT. I WANTED TO MAKE THOSE COMMENTS. APPRECIATE THE TIME TONIGHT.

>> COUNCILLOR LOCKE. >> SURE, THANK YOU , COUNCIL. I DO WANT TO STATE FOR THE RECORD THAT THIS IS HERE TONIGHT NOT AS OVERREACH BUT AS REGULAR REACH BECAUSE OF FEAR OF MISUNDERSTANDING WHAT THE RULES AND PROCESSES ARE FOR THE CITY.

WHEN YOU REVIEW THIS FOR THE CITY, I WOULD LIKE YOU TO REVIEW IT FOR THE CITY AND SEE IF THERE ARE REASONS FOR THIS NOT TO BE SEEN AS AN OVERREACH, NOT TO POKE HOLES IN IT BUT TO FIND A WAY FOR THIS TO BE A PATH TO ENSURE THAT THERE IS THE CORRECT AMOUNT OF OVERSIGHT ON COMMITTEES THAT WERE SET UP, THAT ARE RECEIVING MONEY FROM THE CITY SO THE CITY COUNCIL DOES WHAT IS GOING ON. I JUST WANT TO SHARE THAT. THIS SHOULD GO TO COMMITTEE SO THAT YOU HAVE TIME TO DO THAT. WHAT OF THE REASON WE ARE ANNOUNCING IT TONIGHT AND THE REASON IT MOVED WAS THAT THIS SHOWS THE TENDER AND PROCESS FOR HOW WE SHOULD START LOOKING AT AND THINKING ABOUT THE SHARED COLLABORATIVE OVERSIGHT THAT THIS BODY AND THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH NEED TO HAVE.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR FEEDBACK. IF WE HAD A LIST OF ALL THE AFFILIATES AND KNEW WHAT THEY WERE AND WERE WORKING COLLABORATIVELY TO FIGURE OUT HOW THIS WAS GOING, WE WOULDN'T BE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION. I WANT TO PUT THAT ON THE RECORD AS YOU REVIEW THIS. PLEASE LOOK AT IT FROM THE BEST INTEREST OF THE GOVERNMENT AS A WHOLE, AS YOUR ROLE FROM THE COUNCIL FOR

THE CITY. >> COUNCILLOR MINNAAR.

>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS?

>> I APPRECIATE YOU AND THIS IS GOING TO SOUND CRITICAL. I WILL APOLOGIZE AHEAD OF TIME. IT IS NOT MY INTENT. OVERREACH TO ME, I WISH THE OTHER LAWYER WAS HERE, THAT SOUNDS LIKE AN OPENING. I WANT TO HEAR THE FACTS ON LEGALITY. WE CAN SCREW OUR OWN LIVES WITH OUR OPINIONS BUT I RELY ON ATTORNEYS TO PRESENT FACTS UNLESS ASKED FOR AN OPINION. THE FIRST THING YOU CAME OUT AND SAID WAS THIS APPEARS TO BE OVERREACH. THAT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE A LEGAL STATEMENT AN OPENING. THAT

TROUBLES ME. >> I WANT TO ASK THAT. WHEN YOU SET OVERREACH, IS THAT A PHILOSOPHICAL DISAGREEMENT ABOUT WHAT WE SHOULD DO OR WHAT WE ARE ABLE TO DO?

>> I THINK IT IS LIKELY A DISAGREEMENT ABOUT WHAT SEPARATION OF POWERS ACTUALLY IS. I DON'T TAKE IT LIGHTLY

[03:25:15]

>> YOU WERE DECIDING OVERREACH MEETING UNABLE, YOU WERE DECIDING THIS IS NOT WITHIN THE POWER OF THE COUNCIL PUTTING

THIS. >> I BELIEVE IT MAY NOT BE. IT IS POSSIBLE IT CANNOT BE. WE HAVE NOT HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO THOROUGHLY REVIEW THIS AT THIS POINT. I THINK THAT IS A

POSSIBILITY. >> OKAY, COUNCILLOR MINNAAR.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING UP AND TALKING WITH US. I GUESS MY QUESTION WOULD BE IF THE LEGISLATIVE BODY IS APPROPRIATING FUNDS TO AN AFFILIATE OR TO ANYONE, IT WOULD SEEM, MAYBE THERE IS A STATUTE , SO I'M ASKING IF YOU COULD, IN YOUR REVIEW OF THIS, TO LOOK AT THAT BECAUSE IT WOULD SEEM, JUST AN OPENING, IF THE LEGISLATIVE BODY, I KNOW THERE IS SEPARATION OF POWERS BUT IF THEY ARE DOLING OUT THE DOUGH, IT WOULD SEEM WE WOULD HAVE SOME VOICE. I AM ASKING TO LOOK THAT UP FOR ME,

PLEASE. >> I CERTAINLY WILL.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH. >> THIS WILL GO TO COMMITTEE.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? THIS GOES TO THE FINANCE,

UTILITIES, RULES COMMITTEE. >> MR. PRESIDENT. SPEAKING OF IT GOING TO FINANCE COMMITTEE, SO, THE MAYOR MADE A PROPOSAL TONIGHT. IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU HAVE RECEIVED, SOMETHING IN WRITING AS TO WHAT THIS WOULD LOOK LIKE? IS THIS GOING TO BE PART OF DISCUSSION AT COMMITTEE? WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN?

>> IF SOMEONE HAS IT IN WRITING, IT WASN'T. I THINK I WAS PROBABLY ONE OF THE LAST COUNCILLORS TO BE INFORMED ABOUT THIS. SO, LATE AFTERNOON, THE PROPOSAL. I HEARD ABOUT IT FROM SEVERAL OTHER COUNCILLORS BEFORE I WAS CALLED.

>> I GUESS I WOULD JUST SAY IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE AT FINANCE TO DISCUSS THIS , IT MIGHT BE WISE FOR US TO RECEIVE SOMETHING ABOUT WHATEVER THE MAYOR'S PLAN IS FOR THIS NEW AFFILIATE COMMITTEE THAT SHE DESCRIBED HOW WE WOULD GO ABOUT DISCUSSING IT

AS IT APPLIES TO THIS. >> CERTAINLY YOU CAN AMEND THE EXISTING PROPOSAL ON THE TABLE, SCRAP IT, COME UP WITH A NEW ONE. I THINK THE ABILITIES OF THE COMMITTEE ARE BROAD.

>> I BELIEVE SHE HAS BEEN WORKING ON A HARD COPY PROPOSAL TO MAKE THAT WOULD FOLLOW THE CONVERSATIONS SHE HAS HAD WITH SOME OF YOU. I DON'T BELIEVE THERE IS SOMETHING THAT I CERTAINLY DON'T HAVE SOMETHING WRITTEN DOWN THAT I COULD GIVE YOU BUT I KNOW THEY HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THAT.

>> COUNCILLOR SNYDER. >> IT HAS BEEN CONVERSATIONAL SO FAR. IT HAS JUST BEEN HERE IS AN IDEA, WHAT DO YOU THINK? AND TRYING TO POKE HOLES IN IT, GETTING GOOD RESPONSES AND FEEDBACK. I WANT TO CONTINUE WORKING ON THIS INITIATIVE OF THE MAYOR, WHETHER IT CANCELED OR NOT. I THINK WE SHOULD CONTINUE WORKING ON IT. I PERSONALLY SEE NO REASON WHY THEY CAN'T BE SEPARATE THINGS. EVEN UNDER THIS OMINOUS COLLECTOR, THE INDIVIDUAL NOT FOR PROFITS OR AFFILIATES STILL HAVE THE INDIVIDUAL WORDS. I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM RECONCILING THESE BEING TWO COMPLETELY DISTINCT THING IS. I LOOK FORWARD TO CONTINUING TO HEARING MORE ABOUT THIS. AND, I KNOW THAT THE MAYOR HAS BEEN WORKING ON IT FOR A WHILE. WE HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT IT BACK AND FORTH FOR A WHILE. I JUST DON'T THINK IT IS READY FOR PRIME TIME QUITE YET THE SEED OF THE IDEA IN PRINCIPLE COULD BE A GOOD ONE . I DON'T SEE I DON'T SEE THAT BEING IN CONFLICT WITH THIS, IN MY OPINION.

>> COUNCILLOR LOCKE. >> I DON'T KNOW THAT I AGREE. I THINK IT IS EXACTLY IN CONFLICT. I DON'T REJECT THE IDEA ON ITS FACE BUT THE CONCEPT THAT WE ARE STANDING UP ANOTHER NONPROFIT WHEN WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF REVIEWING THE NONPROFITS AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE RELATE TO THEM SEEMS A COMPLETE AND UTTER RIDICULOUS STEPS TO TAKE. IT MAY BE THE END RESULT.

[03:30:01]

I TRULY, AGAIN, MIGHT BE A REALLY GOOD IDEA, MIGHT BE THE END RESULT THAT NEXT SENSE, SEMS LIKE EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE

TRYING NOT TO DO. >> THIS IS WHY I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT IT. THIS OMNIBUS COMMITTEE IS ONE OF 200 PIECES OF THAT THAT WE DISCUSSED. YOU TALK ABOUT MONEY, SOME OF THE BETTER IDEAS WITH THIS HAD TO DO WITH COST SAVINGS, HAD TO DO WITH REALLOCATION HAD TO DO WITH TAKING SOME EMPLOYEES OFF OF THE CITY AND PUTTING THEM SOMEWHERE ELSE. I DO SEE THESE , I GUESS I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE GETTING AT. THAT IS WHY I AM SAYING THEY ARE CO-RELATED. YOU SAID WE COULD MAKE CHANGES TO YOURS, WHICH WE COULD WIDELY DO, THIS IDEA IS MONTHS DOWN THE ROAD. IT WOULDN'T, MAYBE WHAT YOU GUYS, MAYBE THIS WORKS. MAYBE PUTTING A COUNCILLOR ON EVERY BOARD GETS RID OF THIS THING ALTOGETHER AND I AM NOT SITTING UP HERE TRYING TO DEFEND THE MAYOR. FRANKLY, I THINK THERE WERE SOME GOOD POINTS OF MERIT . THE RIDICULOUSNESS OF OTHER COMMITTEE, I GOT YOU THERE. WE GET WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO HERE, WHICH IS GET CULTURAL REPRESENTATION ON EVERY FIDUCIARY BODY, ANYBODY THAT RECEIVES MONEY SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO THE COUNCIL. THIS OTHER IDEA CAN RUN INDEPENDENTLY OR AT LEAST BE RESEARCHED. I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANY REASON WHY THE MAYOR CAN'T CONTINUE THINKING ABOUT IT OR TALKING TO US ABOUT IT. IT WON'T BE ANYTHING THAT HAPPENS UNTIL AFTER WE GET DONE WHAT WE NEED TO DO.

>> WE HAD A NAME TODAY. I SAY THAT AND I LOOK AT WHAT HAS BEEN DONE AND I LOOK AT THE RECORD THAT HAS BEEN PUT BEFORE US.

MANY STEPS ARE TAKEN IN A VACUUM AND THEN WE FIND OUT ABOUT THEM LATER USUALLY THE DATE OF THE THING WHEN WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE TALKING ABOUT IT FOR THE FIRST TIME THAT IT HAS ALREADY HAPPENED. FROM A CONCEPT STANDPOINT, MY CONCERN, THAT IS A MODERATELY BAKED IDEA, THROUGH TODAY. HE AND I DON'T THINK IT IS AN IDEA THAT SHOULD BE BAKING. THE OVEN SHOULD BE FULL OF THE OTHER IDEAS WE HAVE MOVING. WE HAVE A LOT ON THE AGENDA. I DON'T DISLIKE THE CONCEPT. THERE ARE PARTS OF IT I DON'T LIKE, SPECIFICALLY UNDERSTANDING HOW WHAT WE ARE DEALING WITH HERE IS A LACK OF OVERSIGHT OF NONPROFITS AS A WHOLE. TRYING TO RECTIFY THAT BEHAVIOR AND FIND A WAY TO DO IT ON ONE OFFSET VERY SIMPLE. THE IDEA OF CREATING A MASTER NONPROFIT TODAY SEEMS, WHILE A GOOD IDEA, SEEMS LIKE THE WRONG STEP TO START GOING DOWN WHEN WE STILL DON'T HAVE A LIST OF ALL THE AFFILIATES. I KNOW IT IS A LONG NIGHT AND I HEAR YOU, I JUST OF SHARING MY PERSPECTIVE IF WE ARE GOING TO UNDERTAKE THESE OTHER THINGS. LET'S PUT THAT ON THE LIST WITH ALL OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT ARE ON THE LIST.

>> TO HELP WRAP THIS UP AND I KNOW THERE ARE OTHER QUESTIONS, THE MAYOR BROUGHT THIS UP IN HER OPENING SPEECH SO IT IS FAIR GAME TO DISCUSS. FOR SOME PEOPLE, THAT MAY HAVE BEEN THE FIRST TIME THEY HEARD ABOUT IT. FOR ME, IT WAS LATER IN THE AFTERNOON AND THIS WAS AN IDEA THAT SHE HAD FOR A WHILE. I TAKE UP MY PHONE PRETTY QUICKLY. I AM VERY EASY TO GET A HOLD OF. I HAVE WEEKLY MEETINGS WITH THE MAYOR. THIS WAS NEVER BROUGHT UP

[03:35:01]

RIGHT NOW, I, SOME PEOPLE ARE IN THE ROOM WHERE IT HAPPENS AND SOME AREN'T. WE HAVE TO GET PAST THAT. THAT IS MY OPINION.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS?

>> I JUST WANT THE LAST WORD. >> ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.